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(The New York Times)   Why the hell won't kids grow up these days? Warning: Originally ten pages, and still doesn't say why they won't get the hell off Subby's lawn   (nytimes.com) divider line
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8446 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Aug 2010 at 10:18 AM (10 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2010-08-22 2:02:15 AM  
trollcats.comView Full Size
 
2010-08-22 2:11:06 AM  
oh thank the lord, someone figured out how to submit the 'single page' option of a long article


+1 for having brains heromitter
 
2010-08-22 2:43:25 AM  
Although a little unusual, I want to thank the submitter for submitting this article.

A well-written, thought out, and interesting article indeed.

/+1
 
2010-08-22 2:51:22 AM  
All kids grow up. Unless they were poorly parented.
 
2010-08-22 10:25:13 AM  
Why? Because you've farking ruined the world Baby Boomers, and it's far easier to ride out the end of the world on your decadent asses then it is to rally to a lost cause of saving the world.
 
2010-08-22 10:25:53 AM  
Home schooled? I don't blame people but home schooled?

Plus, with record debt coming out of university, no wonder they can't follow that decade-old tradition of passing the 5 transitions by 30.

I tend to think before the Great Depression burned-in the phrase "home is where the heart is" things were a lot different for young Americans.
 
2010-08-22 10:27:20 AM  
Because parents won't let them? You protect a kid from anything that would require independence or risk-taking and then wonder why they fail when they have to take risks and make their own choices...
 
2010-08-22 10:27:21 AM  
One could also point to the fact that the generations before the baby boomers did tend to live together as a family unit quite frequently. Maybe all this independence is what's abnormal, Maybe it's wrong to leave your loved ones in a nursing home so you can have your own house to yourself.
 
2010-08-22 10:27:44 AM  
They don't grow up because their entire focus seems to be the truly unimportant things in life, like Facebook and cell phones.
 
2010-08-22 10:28:25 AM  

fluffy2097: Maybe it's wrong to leave your loved ones in a nursing home so you can have your own house to yourself.


If that's wrong, I don't wanna be right.
 
2010-08-22 10:29:35 AM  
When an entry level position requires a masters and 10 years experience for not enough money to live in a studio apartment where you're likely to be stabbed when checking the mail, what choices do you really have?
 
2010-08-22 10:30:58 AM  

Girion47: When an entry level position requires a masters and 10 years experience for not enough money to live in a studio apartment where you're likely to be stabbed when checking the mail, what choices do you really have?


Wahhhhhhh, Life is HARD.
 
2010-08-22 10:31:27 AM  

dead_dangler: fluffy2097: Maybe it's wrong to leave your loved ones in a nursing home so you can have your own house to yourself.

If that's wrong, I don't wanna be right.


I feel you on that, but I also think it would be a crying shame to let my parents sell their house and property and move into an assisted living community or a condominium. I could be very happy to die in the same house I was born in.
 
2010-08-22 10:32:27 AM  

Girion47: When an entry level position requires a masters and 10 years experience for not enough money to live in a studio apartment where you're likely to be stabbed when checking the mail, what choices do you really have?


A second job comes to mind.

You could probably save 400 bucks a month if you stopped smoking weed too.
 
2010-08-22 10:39:12 AM  

dead_dangler: Girion47: When an entry level position requires a masters and 10 years experience for not enough money to live in a studio apartment where you're likely to be stabbed when checking the mail, what choices do you really have?

Wahhhhhhh, Life is HARD.


fluffy2097: Girion47: When an entry level position requires a masters and 10 years experience for not enough money to live in a studio apartment where you're likely to be stabbed when checking the mail, what choices do you really have?

A second job comes to mind.

You could probably save 400 bucks a month if you stopped smoking weed too.


Disclaimer Time:

I'm 27, married, own a house and 2 dogs. Got a job back in february after my last one ran out of work and i was no longer billable. Don't smoke weed and a second job isn't possible when I am essentially oncall for any contract opportunities pop up. "Sorry GSA, we'd provide you with an IH but he has to cover a shift at 7/11 cleaning the slurpee machine"

Anyways, while on the job hunt I ran into that a lot. Any professional position, you know the whole reason I went to school, made impossible demands to even be considered for an interview.
 
2010-08-22 10:39:26 AM  
FTA: "What is it about 20-Somethings..."

Heck, I know 40 somethings who haven't grown up yet and still live with their parents.

ShillinTheVillain: Because parents won't let them? You protect a kid from anything that would require independence or risk-taking and then wonder why they fail when they have to take risks and make their own choices...


THIS. I don't work around too many younger people right now but I hear complaints regularly about how much hand-holding they need.

I also read on lots of internet forums where parents are having problems with their teenage kid and the solution always seems to be some form of more control. It's like they fail to understand the whole idea of guidance or that kids make mistakes they'll just have to live with and think the solution to every problem is to become more dictatorial since what didn't work on a four-year-old (or what they failed to try back then) will totally work on someone old enough to drive.
 
2010-08-22 10:43:34 AM  

Girion47: dead_dangler: Girion47: When an entry level position requires a masters and 10 years experience for not enough money to live in a studio apartment where you're likely to be stabbed when checking the mail, what choices do you really have?

Wahhhhhhh, Life is HARD.

fluffy2097: Girion47: When an entry level position requires a masters and 10 years experience for not enough money to live in a studio apartment where you're likely to be stabbed when checking the mail, what choices do you really have?

A second job comes to mind.

You could probably save 400 bucks a month if you stopped smoking weed too.

Disclaimer Time:

I'm 27, married, own a house and 2 dogs. Got a job back in february after my last one ran out of work and i was no longer billable. Don't smoke weed and a second job isn't possible when I am essentially oncall for any contract opportunities pop up. "Sorry GSA, we'd provide you with an IH but he has to cover a shift at 7/11 cleaning the slurpee machine"

Anyways, while on the job hunt I ran into that a lot. Any professional position, you know the whole reason I went to school, made impossible demands to even be considered for an interview.


I'm confused. Do you own a house, or do you live in a studio apartment where you're likely to be stabbed when checking the mail?
 
2010-08-22 10:43:47 AM  
snowmanyflakes.comView Full Size


Poor wittle snowfwakes!
 
2010-08-22 10:43:47 AM  
I like bashing the youngsters as much as anybody, (Especially about their complete inability to create decent rock and roll), But things really have changed. When I fist moved out in 1976, I was able to support myself with a part-time minimum wage ($2.60 hr) job and a room mate. Now you have to make a decent salary to even think about moving out. It's HARDER. WAY the fark harder.
 
2010-08-22 10:45:01 AM  

dead_dangler: They don't grow up because their entire focus seems to be the truly unimportant things in life, like Facebook and cell phones.


Alright, I'll bite. I'm in limbo for a year, (hopefully) working at Borders until graduate school starts fall next year. What should my focus be so that I'm focusing on the truly important things in life?

/checks facebook
//still trying to decide on a crackberry
 
2010-08-22 10:45:10 AM  

Girion47: When an entry level position requires a masters and 10 years experience for not enough money to live in a studio apartment where you're likely to be stabbed when checking the mail, what choices do you really have?


A time machine allowing you to go back in time and major in something other than English or Art history comes to mind. I know its not the go-go early 2000's anymore but come on.

My company has had an entry level Computer Science position open for months. We can get anyone remotely qualified to interview for it. The only interest has been from kids with bachelors in business, accounting, or "Computer Information Systems" with little more than remedial computer skills. I'd love to find a young military vet with some basic computer skills and build them into a good software designer but cant even find that.

Any of the former interns or other contacts we've gone to are either taking time off to backpack Europe or are off to grad school for reasons they cant explain. The lack of interest in working seems to be a 20-something phenomenon as well.
 
2010-08-22 10:46:09 AM  

GristleDick: I like bashing the youngsters as much as anybody, (Especially about their complete inability to create decent rock and roll), But things really have changed. When I fist moved out in 1976, I was able to support myself with a part-time minimum wage ($2.60 hr) job and a room mate. Now you have to make a decent salary to even think about moving out. It's HARDER. WAY the fark harder.


No shiat. Back then, all you had to pay for was rent and food. Nowadays you've got to pay for high-speed internet, unlimited data plans for your cell phone, x-box live accounts, and a whole host of other expenses.
 
2010-08-22 10:47:05 AM  
fluffy2097:Maybe it's wrong to leave your loved ones in a nursing home so you can have your own house to yourself.

Sounds like someone is posting from a nursing home
 
2010-08-22 10:47:25 AM  

Girion47: "

Anyways, while on the job hunt I ran into that a lot. Any professional position, you know the whole reason I went to school, made impossible demands to even be considered for an interview.


Same here. I lost my job in finance in '08, and when applying for entry level positions after 4 years building and managing a portfolio of 750 clients over $125 million, I was told by several firms that they want somebody with more experience. For entry-level work. I bought a house at 23 and looked like a success at that point, and then at 26 I was unemployed, barely kept the house and couldn't get work beyond part-time positions because I was either grossly overqualified or didn't have enough experience. If a reporter tried to tell me I was "refusing to grow up" last summer, I'd have probably ripped their head off and shat into their windpipe.
 
2010-08-22 10:47:40 AM  
A Canadian study reported that a typical 30-year-old in 2001 had completed the same number of milestones as a 25-year-old in the early '70s.

If life expectancy is also increasing, is this really a problem? Maybe we'll just start to live longer and slower...

/hasn't had to move back home... yet
//barring a major catastrophe, should be okay
 
2010-08-22 10:48:07 AM  

Lux Lambert: dead_dangler: They don't grow up because their entire focus seems to be the truly unimportant things in life, like Facebook and cell phones.

Alright, I'll bite. I'm in limbo for a year, (hopefully) working at Borders until graduate school starts fall next year. What should my focus be so that I'm focusing on the truly important things in life?

/checks facebook
//still trying to decide on a crackberry


Well for one, getting a better job.
 
2010-08-22 10:49:21 AM  

Girion47: dead_dangler: Girion47: When an entry level position requires a masters and 10 years experience for not enough money to live in a studio apartment where you're likely to be stabbed when checking the mail, what choices do you really have?

Wahhhhhhh, Life is HARD.

fluffy2097: Girion47: When an entry level position requires a masters and 10 years experience for not enough money to live in a studio apartment where you're likely to be stabbed when checking the mail, what choices do you really have?

A second job comes to mind.

You could probably save 400 bucks a month if you stopped smoking weed too.

Disclaimer Time:

I'm 27, married, own a house and 2 dogs. Got a job back in february after my last one ran out of work and i was no longer billable. Don't smoke weed and a second job isn't possible when I am essentially oncall for any contract opportunities pop up. "Sorry GSA, we'd provide you with an IH but he has to cover a shift at 7/11 cleaning the slurpee machine"

Anyways, while on the job hunt I ran into that a lot. Any professional position, you know the whole reason I went to school, made impossible demands to even be considered for an interview.


You sound like an enormous whiner.

I made 48K the first year I got a real corporate job. after that, 50K, the year after 55K. More then enough to afford a new car and a nice apartment. Since I actually know what I'm doing, I'm always in demand, and never have worries about job security, and have a pile of fantastic recommendations from both the corporate and private sectors.

Oh yeah. I never went to college either. Go back to making slurpees like your degree qualifies you for.
 
2010-08-22 10:49:59 AM  

dead_dangler: GristleDick: I like bashing the youngsters as much as anybody, (Especially about their complete inability to create decent rock and roll), But things really have changed. When I fist moved out in 1976, I was able to support myself with a part-time minimum wage ($2.60 hr) job and a room mate. Now you have to make a decent salary to even think about moving out. It's HARDER. WAY the fark harder.

No shiat. Back then, all you had to pay for was rent and food. Nowadays you've got to pay for high-speed internet, unlimited data plans for your cell phone, x-box live accounts, and a whole host of other expenses.


$7.25*40*4*.8 = $928, approximately, after taxes. Figure rent at $600, utilities are $300, and food is...oh wait, you don't eat at that wage. And that's assuming you can get 40 hrs a week, every week.
 
2010-08-22 10:51:26 AM  
I do not get this phenomenon of living at home and extending your childhood a few more years.

At 18 I was given the 'warm fuzzy boot' out the door. Meaning, go to university, but you are not living at home to do so. Go learn how to be an adult when the consequences are minimal and if you fail badly you can come home, but only until you pick yourself up again.

In preparation for this I was taught how to cook meals (not just pop something in the microwave), do my own laundry and how to manage my own money. These things have helped greatly in my life so far.

Of course I still indulge in childlike behavior at times, but not to the point that it would affect my job, house or family.
 
2010-08-22 10:52:52 AM  
dead_dangler:
Well for one, getting a better job.


This neck of the woods (Appalachia) has got NOTHING that's worth jumping into for only a year. Yeah, I'm sucking it up and living with my parents, but where's the harm if they're willing to put me up? My sister's a freakin' psychiatrist engaged to a psychiatrist, so I'm the only dependent left.

Plus, I know I'm going to get flack for this, I got a BA in Writing, instead of something manlier or worthier than hard sciences or, hell, nursing. So there ain't much entry-level my sorry ass can do in the Mid-Ohio Valley. Hell, there ain't much for anybody. The local paper just ran a story a few days ago where the headline was just "Where are the jobs?" which probably puts some things in perspective.

Though admittedly, I did get coerced into taking a chemistry class at the local college now because my mother's still convinced that I'm going to suddenly want to be a doctor in three years. Gotta love Asian parents...
 
2010-08-22 10:54:33 AM  

Kasira: dead_dangler: GristleDick: I like bashing the youngsters as much as anybody, (Especially about their complete inability to create decent rock and roll), But things really have changed. When I fist moved out in 1976, I was able to support myself with a part-time minimum wage ($2.60 hr) job and a room mate. Now you have to make a decent salary to even think about moving out. It's HARDER. WAY the fark harder.

No shiat. Back then, all you had to pay for was rent and food. Nowadays you've got to pay for high-speed internet, unlimited data plans for your cell phone, x-box live accounts, and a whole host of other expenses.

$7.25*40*4*.8 = $928, approximately, after taxes. Figure rent at $600, utilities are $300, and food is...oh wait, you don't eat at that wage. And that's assuming you can get 40 hrs a week, every week.


$300 for utilities when renting? I don't pay that much and I have to power and heat a house.

In any case, I know people who make minimum wage in metro Vancouver (not a cheap place to live), and somehow they can do it.
 
2010-08-22 10:56:48 AM  

Lux Lambert: dead_dangler:
Well for one, getting a better job.

This neck of the woods (Appalachia) has got NOTHING that's worth jumping into for only a year. Yeah, I'm sucking it up and living with my parents, but where's the harm if they're willing to put me up? My sister's a freakin' psychiatrist engaged to a psychiatrist, so I'm the only dependent left.

Plus, I know I'm going to get flack for this, I got a BA in Writing, instead of something manlier or worthier than hard sciences or, hell, nursing. So there ain't much entry-level my sorry ass can do in the Mid-Ohio Valley. Hell, there ain't much for anybody. The local paper just ran a story a few days ago where the headline was just "Where are the jobs?" which probably puts some things in perspective.

Though admittedly, I did get coerced into taking a chemistry class at the local college now because my mother's still convinced that I'm going to suddenly want to be a doctor in three years. Gotta love Asian parents...


You don't have to justify anything to me. I don't actually care.

However, your life is going to continue to suck until you stop making excuses.
 
2010-08-22 10:57:27 AM  

ShillinTheVillain: Girion47: "

Anyways, while on the job hunt I ran into that a lot. Any professional position, you know the whole reason I went to school, made impossible demands to even be considered for an interview.

Same here. I lost my job in finance in '08, and when applying for entry level positions after 4 years building and managing a portfolio of 750 clients over $125 million, I was told by several firms that they want somebody with more experience. For entry-level work. I bought a house at 23 and looked like a success at that point, and then at 26 I was unemployed, barely kept the house and couldn't get work beyond part-time positions because I was either grossly overqualified or didn't have enough experience. If a reporter tried to tell me I was "refusing to grow up" last summer, I'd have probably ripped their head off and shat into their windpipe.


Maybe I misunderstood TFA, but it seems like they're talking about people who are floating through their 20s, going from college to backpacking to yoga retreats to underground concert promoter to grad school to god knows what. Your situation is very different from that.
 
2010-08-22 10:58:10 AM  
Things that have been increasing faster than inflation for 30+ years:
-Medical/insurance costs
-College tuition costs
-in a lot of areas, housing costs

Things that have not:
-Salaries for non-professional (no degree required) jobs
-# of entry-level posititions

It actually *is* harder to be 22 today than it was 20-30 years ago, and it has nothing to with facebook, or cell phones or any of the other stuff old people on here complain about. Credential-inflation means almost any job that's not completely dead-end requires a degree (or a graduate degree), the actual degree costs a lot more, and when you get out, housing and medical stuff cost a *lot* more (plus you likely have student loans).
 
2010-08-22 10:58:26 AM  

fluffy2097: Girion47: dead_dangler: Girion47: When an entry level position requires a masters and 10 years experience for not enough money to live in a studio apartment where you're likely to be stabbed when checking the mail, what choices do you really have?

Wahhhhhhh, Life is HARD.

fluffy2097: Girion47: When an entry level position requires a masters and 10 years experience for not enough money to live in a studio apartment where you're likely to be stabbed when checking the mail, what choices do you really have?

A second job comes to mind.

You could probably save 400 bucks a month if you stopped smoking weed too.

Disclaimer Time:

I'm 27, married, own a house and 2 dogs. Got a job back in february after my last one ran out of work and i was no longer billable. Don't smoke weed and a second job isn't possible when I am essentially oncall for any contract opportunities pop up. "Sorry GSA, we'd provide you with an IH but he has to cover a shift at 7/11 cleaning the slurpee machine"

Anyways, while on the job hunt I ran into that a lot. Any professional position, you know the whole reason I went to school, made impossible demands to even be considered for an interview.

You sound like an enormous whiner.

I made 48K the first year I got a real corporate job. after that, 50K, the year after 55K. More then enough to afford a new car and a nice apartment. Since I actually know what I'm doing, I'm always in demand, and never have worries about job security, and have a pile of fantastic recommendations from both the corporate and private sectors.

Oh yeah. I never went to college either. Go back to making slurpees like your degree qualifies you for.



See you at the gym in 25 min.
 
2010-08-22 11:00:19 AM  

itsfullofstars: Girion47: When an entry level position requires a masters and 10 years experience for not enough money to live in a studio apartment where you're likely to be stabbed when checking the mail, what choices do you really have?

A time machine allowing you to go back in time and major in something other than English or Art history comes to mind. I know its not the go-go early 2000's anymore but come on.


actually degree is in Environmental Health, a B.S. I wasn't foolish enough to believe a B.A. would be useful for anything that matters.

fluffy2097:

You sound like an enormous whiner.

I made 48K the first year I got a real corporate job. after that, 50K, the year after 55K. More then enough to afford a new car and a nice apartment. Since I actually know what I'm doing, I'm always in demand, and never have worries about job security, and have a pile of fantastic recommendations from both the corporate and private sectors.

Oh yeah. I never went to college either. Go back to making slurpees like your degree qualifies you for.


48? thats it? my first job paid 52k, but who cares?
FYI Corporate and Private sectors are the same thing. do you mean corporate/private and government sectors? I can provide those too, I'm excellent at my field and my degree gives me a lot of technical knowledge to work with experts in their specialty to improve the safety of what they do.

so drop the "GOOD JOB IS EASY DERP" speech. I've got the perfect resume, great interview skills, and a very effective cover letter, also the willingness to leave the DC area. Yet there was little I could apply for even though I was qualified, that years experience thing keeps creeping up without no-experience positions opening up to get people started.
 
2010-08-22 11:01:06 AM  
You know, I'm coming to the conclusion that the easiest way to get ahead in life is simply to stop being nice and just start being an asshole. I believe "ruthless" or "shrewd" is the proper business term.

Either that or join the military, apparently. They're always hiring.
 
2010-08-22 11:04:08 AM  

Lux Lambert: Either that or join the military, apparently. They're always hiring.


Trust me. Bad idea.
 
2010-08-22 11:04:19 AM  
1. They almost all have degrees, meaning their degrees are fairly worthless. Especially since there are basically only three types of jobs left: tech, medical and service. The folks that used to work skilled trades, manufacturing, heavy industry and other "non-college degree" jobs are now getting degrees because those jobs are gone.
2. There are no good entry level jobs for them, because they've either been outsourced, downsized, or are still being held by the 30- or 40- something who first got it in their 20's but couldn't move up because the Baby Boomers aren't retiring.
3. Even if they have a hard science degree and do get a job, real wages have been stagnant since the 70's so they're working 50% longer for 50% less purchasing power than their parents did at the same age. It is a sad but true fact that the days of someone being able to get married and start having kids right out of high school in relative financial comfort are long gone.
4. Because they all have degrees, they all have student loans, meaning they're massively in debt both personally and collectively (in terms on the massive national debt waiting for them - thanks, Boomers!)
5. Because employers have no concept of loyalty, THEY have no concept of loyalty, and change jobs like clothes from the necessities of survival, not a sense of entitlement like Boomers would like to think.
6. But because they're 20-somethings, no one bothers to seriously ask them why they do these things; instead, they just assume they're insolent, etc. and write articles about it.
7. In a few years, look to see articles like this about 30- somethings, as today's 20- somethings age, but their lot doesn't improve.
 
2010-08-22 11:04:41 AM  

Girion47: itsfullofstars: Girion47: When an entry level position requires a masters and 10 years experience for not enough money to live in a studio apartment where you're likely to be stabbed when checking the mail, what choices do you really have?

A time machine allowing you to go back in time and major in something other than English or Art history comes to mind. I know its not the go-go early 2000's anymore but come on.


actually degree is in Environmental Health, a B.S. I wasn't foolish enough to believe a B.A. would be useful for anything that matters.fluffy2097:

You sound like an enormous whiner.

I made 48K the first year I got a real corporate job. after that, 50K, the year after 55K. More then enough to afford a new car and a nice apartment. Since I actually know what I'm doing, I'm always in demand, and never have worries about job security, and have a pile of fantastic recommendations from both the corporate and private sectors.

Oh yeah. I never went to college either. Go back to making slurpees like your degree qualifies you for.

48? thats it? my first job paid 52k, but who cares?
FYI Corporate and Private sectors are the same thing. do you mean corporate/private and government sectors? I can provide those too, I'm excellent at my field and my degree gives me a lot of technical knowledge to work with experts in their specialty to improve the safety of what they do.

so drop the "GOOD JOB IS EASY DERP" speech. I've got the perfect resume, great interview skills, and a very effective cover letter, also the willingness to leave the DC area. Yet there was little I could apply for even though I was qualified, that years experience thing keeps creeping up without no-experience positions opening up to get people started.


The fact you have all this proof and willingness and still are failing, while a loser like me has continuous gainful employment, can only prove that all the education in the world doesn't fix the case of stupid you have, and that it is apparent to every interviewer you meet with.
 
2010-08-22 11:06:32 AM  
Hate to break it to you youngsters, but it doesn't necessarily get any easier. Try being mid-40's and getting laid off from your job in a state with a pretty high unemployment rate. Yeah it sucks. At least the young-uns can get jobs at the coffee houses with the hispters...us 40-somethings, well we're competing against your frikkin grandparents for the greeter job at the only wal-mart in town. And trust me, Hooters ain't hiring 40-somethings unless your tits are around 3 years old...

Face kids, life is not all puppy dogs and unicorns. It's gonna suck ass sometimes, and those sometimes can last a while. But you suck it up, realize that this too shall come to pass, and you get on with living.
 
2010-08-22 11:06:47 AM  
As someone in my mid 20's, I totally agree our brains are ever-changing, but that cant be used as an excuse to entirely forfeit responsibility regarding our futures. I think my generation is one of finger pointing and blame shifting, to where it's mom and dad's fault, an incompetent teacher, opportunities with expiration dates (because we like to ponder each decision from every excruciating angle, so afraid to make a mistake no action is taken at all), and anything else we can put the burden of failure on, so it does not rest upon our shoulders.

There has to be some balance between "finding ourselves" and not being a complete shiat stain upon society. I think we are so afraid of failing, most of my generation doesnt bother trying. Have adventure, find your niche in life, but try to do SOMETHING with yourself in the meantime... even if that's working at borders while you get more education like the dude above said. Not everyone knows what they want to do with themselves right out of the gate. Or hell, I've thought I knew what I wanted- in my early 20's, and found out I was wrong... But, there's nothing wrong with that & your 20's are a good time for that; it sends you back to the figurative drawing board.

/disclaimer: 26, marketing manager, own my condo & car.
 
2010-08-22 11:08:46 AM  

Lux Lambert: You know, I'm coming to the conclusion that the easiest way to get ahead in life is simply to stop being nice and just start being an asshole. I believe "ruthless" or "shrewd" is the proper business term.

Either that or join the military, apparently. They're always hiring.


It's not about being nice vs being an asshole. It's about having a clear direction and not letting anything stand in your way.
 
2010-08-22 11:09:04 AM  

Lux Lambert: You know, I'm coming to the conclusion that the easiest way to get ahead in life is simply to stop being nice and just start being an asshole. I believe "ruthless" or "shrewd" is the proper business term.

Either that or join the military, apparently. They're always hiring.



True, but it is getting harder to stay in the Air Force, possibly the safest/smartest branch to be in, which has been steadily cutting numbers. How do I know this? I joined the AF, and couldn't stay in past my 4 years because they were reducing my career field. One of the closest things the military has to a layoff.

The army, well, has changed boot camp to be easier just to keep recruitment up. So even the they are starting to coddle today's youth.
 
2010-08-22 11:09:08 AM  

fluffy2097: Girion47: itsfullofstars: Girion47: When an entry level position requires a masters and 10 years experience for not enough money to live in a studio apartment where you're likely to be stabbed when checking the mail, what choices do you really have?

A time machine allowing you to go back in time and major in something other than English or Art history comes to mind. I know its not the go-go early 2000's anymore but come on.


actually degree is in Environmental Health, a B.S. I wasn't foolish enough to believe a B.A. would be useful for anything that matters.fluffy2097:

You sound like an enormous whiner.

I made 48K the first year I got a real corporate job. after that, 50K, the year after 55K. More then enough to afford a new car and a nice apartment. Since I actually know what I'm doing, I'm always in demand, and never have worries about job security, and have a pile of fantastic recommendations from both the corporate and private sectors.

Oh yeah. I never went to college either. Go back to making slurpees like your degree qualifies you for.

48? thats it? my first job paid 52k, but who cares?
FYI Corporate and Private sectors are the same thing. do you mean corporate/private and government sectors? I can provide those too, I'm excellent at my field and my degree gives me a lot of technical knowledge to work with experts in their specialty to improve the safety of what they do.

so drop the "GOOD JOB IS EASY DERP" speech. I've got the perfect resume, great interview skills, and a very effective cover letter, also the willingness to leave the DC area. Yet there was little I could apply for even though I was qualified, that years experience thing keeps creeping up without no-experience positions opening up to get people started.

The fact you have all this proof and willingness and still are failing, while a loser like me has continuous gainful employment, can only prove that all the education in the world doesn't fix the case of stupid you have, and that it is apparent to every interviewer you meet with.


I'm stupid although you've missed the part where I said I have a job? I'm not failing but I can certainly commiserate with fellow people my age, I've seen the challenges they have, I couldn't imagine having a B.A. how depressing that must be.

every interview led to a job offer, unfortunately every job offer was extremely low considering commute time/costs.
 
2010-08-22 11:12:41 AM  
Meh, fark up the economy by encouraging some wacky notion that greed is a key to success... then complain about people who don't have jobs... go fig.
 
2010-08-22 11:13:46 AM  

unalivezombie: True, but it is getting harder to stay in the Air Force, possibly the safest/smartest branch to be in, which has been steadily cutting numbers. How do I know this? I joined the AF, and couldn't stay in past my 4 years because they were reducing my career field. One of the closest things the military has to a layoff.


Couldn't you retrain for another career field? Not that you'd necessarily want to, but I know in the Navy they're reducing some rates, but if you're good in your fitness and disciplinary records you can go to another A-school.
 
2010-08-22 11:14:25 AM  

firefly212: Meh, fark up the economy by encouraging some wacky notion that greed is a key to success... then complain about people who don't have jobs... go fig.


its the same as min/maxing in a raid.
 
2010-08-22 11:15:33 AM  

ShillinTheVillain: unalivezombie: True, but it is getting harder to stay in the Air Force, possibly the safest/smartest branch to be in, which has been steadily cutting numbers. How do I know this? I joined the AF, and couldn't stay in past my 4 years because they were reducing my career field. One of the closest things the military has to a layoff.

Couldn't you retrain for another career field? Not that you'd necessarily want to, but I know in the Navy they're reducing some rates, but if you're good in your fitness and disciplinary records you can go to another A-school.


would an E8 still get E8 pay if he has the tech knowledge of an E4?
 
2010-08-22 11:16:35 AM  

McVodkaBreath: so afraid to make a mistake no action is taken at all


THIS! OMG, so what if you fail? It's not like the entire world is going to come to a halt if you fail...get over it...learn from it, adapt, change and grow as a person...

This group doesn't KNOW how to fail or lose or get told you don't deserve the corner office for having a Masters but no experience, or that sometimes you job will include tasks you hate to do and no you don't get to pawn them off. Trophies and ribbons for everyone, let's not keep score...Fark that. Losing builds character, makes you want to work harder and learn so you won't lose again, and makes you hungry for a victory.
 
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