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(Western Standard)   News: Canada thinking of scrapping long-form census, Fark: How will we know how many Jedi Knights are in Canada?   ( westernstandard.blogs.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, jedis, Anakin Skywalker, English-speaking, English-speaking world, Canada, census, England and Wales, official website  
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3465 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Jul 2010 at 8:15 PM (7 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2010-07-18 08:16:27 PM  
This is all working out exactly as the Emperor planned, right?
 
2010-07-18 08:17:21 PM  
How will we know how many Jedi Knights are in Canada?

Ask one of them. They're Canadian and will answer politely.
 
2010-07-18 08:18:00 PM  
This is good news for the seven of us who live in the desolate frozen wasteland known to the rest of the world as Canada.
 
2010-07-18 08:18:10 PM  
does anyone care how many canadians are in canada?
 
2010-07-18 08:19:00 PM  
I am your father, Luke. Give in to the dark side of the force, you knob.
 
2010-07-18 08:19:39 PM  
Good, we need to spend money for 65 F-35s instead.
 
2010-07-18 08:19:43 PM  
Something something joke about beavers and light sabers something.

I just can't get excited about Canada.
 
2010-07-18 08:20:05 PM  
Thermometer is wrong, this is a Conservative stance. And I approve it, even being a Damn Liberal.
 
2010-07-18 08:21:16 PM  
More important, how many Siths.
 
2010-07-18 08:23:34 PM  

King Something: How will we know how many Jedi Knights are in Canada?

Ask one of them. They're Canadian and will answer politely.


the fark we will!
 
2010-07-18 08:24:37 PM  
"Canadians don't want the government at their doorstep at 10 o'clock at night while they may be doing something in their bedroom, like reading"
 
2010-07-18 08:25:12 PM  

MoparPower: More important, how many Siths.


Two. Definitely two there are. Always two. Yeah, definitely two.
 
2010-07-18 08:25:33 PM  

MoparPower: how many Siths.


der can be only two, eh?
 
2010-07-18 08:26:45 PM  
What a stupid article. Though I expect no less from the Western Standard.

Their logic seems to be that since a small percentage of people put false information on the long form census, it is useless and should therefore be scrapped.
 
2010-07-18 08:26:59 PM  
"Canadians don't want the government at their doorstep at 10 o'clock at night while they may be doing something in their bedroom, like reading"

yeah. that's what I'm doing in my bedroom at 10pm. reading. unless you can count peen bumps as braille.
 
2010-07-18 08:31:27 PM  
There's 35, and they've all been hired by Bioware.
 
2010-07-18 08:32:06 PM  

Alyna_jf: "Canadians don't want the government at their doorstep at 10 o'clock at night while they may be doing something in their bedroom, like reading"

yeah. that's what I'm doing in my bedroom at 10pm. reading. unless you can count peen bumps as braille.


I won't, but you can.
 
2010-07-18 08:36:12 PM  

Avenger: Thermometer is wrong, this is a Conservative stance. And I approve it, even being a Damn Liberal.


then you don't understand how education, health and jobs work.
 
2010-07-18 08:37:57 PM  

rappy: "Canadians don't want the government at their doorstep at 10 o'clock at night while they may be doing something in their bedroom, like reading"


Clever Conservative humour. You see, all good Conservatives know that people should only be sleeping, or maybe reading to fall asleep, in their bedroom. If they want to engage in intercourse for the express purpose of conception, they would be found in their wife's bedroom.

Also, I love how these guys are taking an apparent ignorance of survey methods, data collection, and statistical analysis and claiming that "forcing" people to answer the long-form census will reveal nothing more than the number of people making a joke out of it.
 
2010-07-18 08:39:00 PM  

MetalMoe: What a stupid article. Though I expect no less from the Western Standard.

Their logic seems to be that since a small percentage of people put false information on the long form census, it is useless and should therefore be scrapped.


Farking statistics, how does it work?

img.youtube.comView Full Size
 
2010-07-18 08:39:19 PM  
The question I have from reading that article: is Canada's census form really 40 pages?
 
2010-07-18 08:39:57 PM  
I put European as my race on my last census form
I took offense to the word white
they kept coming around wanting me to redo it :-)
 
2010-07-18 08:47:50 PM  
Do they differentiate between English and French speaking Jedi?
 
2010-07-18 08:48:24 PM  
Subby: How will we know how many Jedi Knights are in Canada?

By feeling their presence.
 
2010-07-18 08:49:32 PM  

dg41: The question I have from reading that article: is Canada's census form really 40 pages?


The 'long-form' in question likely is, but it was only sent to a small fraction (1/6 or 1/10 or something) of households.
 
2010-07-18 08:53:28 PM  
Hmm an argument about statistics in Canada. The two sides here are Harper government and STATS CANADA, the government department responsible for statistics. Stats Can says the form the government wants is all but useless, and some people claim we should be paying a third party for the census data.

Just let stats can do their job, you don't want to have to look at boring ass statistics so just leave them be.
 
2010-07-18 08:57:48 PM  
Here are the 2006 census forms (new window)

Can someone please tell me exactly which questions on the long form are so terribly "intrusive"? It's mostly demographic, educational, and employment information.
 
2010-07-18 08:58:16 PM  

MetalMoe: dg41: The question I have from reading that article: is Canada's census form really 40 pages?

The 'long-form' in question likely is, but it was only sent to a small fraction (1/6 or 1/10 or something) of households.


This (new window) says 1/5 households got the long form in 2006. The long form had 53 questions, and the short form only 8. If it was 40 pages, I doubt it was particularly challenging reading...
 
2010-07-18 09:00:23 PM  

dg41: The question I have from reading that article: is Canada's census form really 40 pages?


Yes (new window)

There were 61 questions in 2006, covering everything needed to properly allocate government resources. Just counting noses is useless. If do not have a good handle of an area's demographic data, then budgeting becomes a guessing game. You will end up with resource imbalances that will cause service shortage and underusage at the same time.
 
2010-07-18 09:00:53 PM  
Fear not, concerned citizen. In anticipation of this crisis, we have built a large-scale Midichlorian detector. With it, we can safely check the Jedi quotent of any sizable area.

*turns it on, points it North*

Hrmm......not getting anything.

*extends the search to cover the US*

I'm still not getting a viable reading here....*bangs on the side a little bit* OK, let's go full throttle on this sumbiatch.....

*extends range to cover the entire planet*

Dear God - not a SINGLE Midichlorian on the entire planet! What could this mean? Are we all doomed to a universe where we are not all mutually bound to the pervasive energy field known as the Force?

*checks box again*

Oh, my bad - this is my Credible Plotline detector. It stopped working after Episode 1. Carry on.
 
2010-07-18 09:04:31 PM  
Can't the people who get the long form just fill out a short form instead?

That issue is never addressed, nor the selection criteria, if not random, for long form households.
 
2010-07-18 09:06:16 PM  

floatablepie: Hmm an argument about statistics in Canada. The two sides here are Harper government and STATS CANADA, the government department responsible for statistics. Stats Can says the form the government wants is all but useless, and some people claim we should be paying a third party for the census data.

Just let stats can do their job, you don't want to have to look at boring ass statistics so just leave them be.


Harper pushing this as being part of a "core conservative value" issue, that will cost less while being less intrusive on invidual's rights. However, what will happen is that they will save a bit of money, but the product will be vastly inferior.

Basically, we had a Mercedes for the price of a Mercedes, and now we'll have a GM for the price of a BMW.
 
2010-07-18 09:07:50 PM  
Why do I get the feeling that current CPC stupidity is just to force the opposition into a vote of no confidence? You would think the right would be all for efficient operation of that gawd awful but unavoidable guberment bureaucracy. Then the copyright BS. Forcing law into the budget. It's like there poking us till we get angry and smack 'em one. God I hate these shiatbags.
 
2010-07-18 09:09:24 PM  
As per Macleans, which copied Industry Minister Tony Clement's hilariously ill-informed Twittering on the issue:

Attempting to defend his stance on the census, Industry Minister Tony Clement takes to the Twitter, proceeds to run into economist Stephen Gordon.

TonyClement_MP @wicary Actually the Long Form is still around & will be going to more Cdns-minus the state coercion.

Harbles @TonyClement_MP However the statistical randomness is gone making the data skewed.

TonyClement_MP @Harbles Wrong. Statisticians can ensure validity w larger sample size

stephenfgordon @TonyClement_MP Wrong. Large samples can't fix sample selection biases.

TonyClement_MP @stephenfgordon Which is why proper weighting will be used, as always the case

stephenfgordon @TonyClement_MP Where will the weights come from? Other voluntary surveys get their weights from the census.

c_9 @TonyClement_MP But weighting is done based on CENSUS DATA. Can't weight the original data. Answers to these concerns somewhere?

TonyClement_MP @c_9 Folks! There is STILL a mandatory Census!

stephenfgordon @TonyClement_MP How can we reweight for education and income using short form data?
 
2010-07-18 09:10:36 PM  

Yzziefrog: dg41: The question I have from reading that article: is Canada's census form really 40 pages?

Yes (new window)

There were 61 questions in 2006, covering everything needed to properly allocate government resources. Just counting noses is useless. If do not have a good handle of an area's demographic data, then budgeting becomes a guessing game. You will end up with resource imbalances that will cause service shortage and underusage at the same time.


While you are correct, you fail to see that these are not the concerns of a Conservative government. Their concerns are to cut services whenever possible, thereby allowing them to claim to be saving the country money. At the same time, they'll implement all sorts of "get tough on crime" legislation which they and the populace don't realize is unnecessary, because they don't bother to look at statistics on crime rates, etc. It's all about enhancing our Freedom, while imposing the will of the moral majority...
 
2010-07-18 09:13:35 PM  
Canadian here, I always put Jedi. I always thought it was some sort of inside joke and I didn't want to be left out.
 
2010-07-18 09:17:56 PM  

dead_dangler: This is good news for the seven of us who live in the desolate frozen wasteland known to the rest of the world as Canada.


Best back yard in the world. Maybe you should get out of your parent's basement.
 
2010-07-18 09:20:04 PM  

dg41: The question I have from reading that article: is Canada's census form really 40 pages?


The long-form census is 40 pages, but there are columns so that up to five people can answer. Really it's about 8 pages per person. Out of curiousity, I tried filling it out. Took me about 5 minutes and hardly seemed intrusive. Even if it took an hour, it's not exactly a big deal, considering I'd only have to do it on average once every 25 years.

There are very strict privacy controls in place to protect the information collected, and it's valuable data that helps direct government and private-sector services to where they're most needed or effective. Damn straight it should be mandatory. It's one of the civic responsibilities, like jury duty, and a hell of a lot less of an imposition than jury duty.
 
2010-07-18 09:21:30 PM  

RabidSquirrel: As per Macleans, which copied Industry Minister Tony Clement's hilariously ill-informed Twittering on the issue:

Attempting to defend his stance on the census, Industry Minister Tony Clement takes to the Twitter, proceeds to run into economist Stephen Gordon.

TonyClement_MP @wicary Actually the Long Form is still around & will be going to more Cdns-minus the state coercion.

Harbles @TonyClement_MP However the statistical randomness is gone making the data skewed.

TonyClement_MP @Harbles Wrong. Statisticians can ensure validity w larger sample size

stephenfgordon @TonyClement_MP Wrong. Large samples can't fix sample selection biases.

TonyClement_MP @stephenfgordon Which is why proper weighting will be used, as always the case

stephenfgordon @TonyClement_MP Where will the weights come from? Other voluntary surveys get their weights from the census.

c_9 @TonyClement_MP But weighting is done based on CENSUS DATA. Can't weight the original data. Answers to these concerns somewhere?

TonyClement_MP @c_9 Folks! There is STILL a mandatory Census!

stephenfgordon @TonyClement_MP How can we reweight for education and income using short form data?


Ah, Tony Clement. Not exactly a genius...
 
2010-07-18 09:23:00 PM  

Quantum Apostrophe: Good, we need to spend money for 65 F-35s instead.


You'll get over it.
 
2010-07-18 09:23:24 PM  

dead_dangler: This is good news for the seven of us who live in the desolate frozen wasteland known to the rest of the world as Canada.


Can I get some of that frozen wasteland? Vancouver has been hot as balls lately, and I have to wear pants to work.
 
2010-07-18 09:23:59 PM  

misanthropologist: Yzziefrog:
There were 61 questions in 2006, covering everything needed to properly allocate government resources. Just counting noses is useless. If do not have a good handle of an area's demographic data, then budgeting becomes a guessing game. You will end up with resource imbalances that will cause service shortage and underusage at the same time.

While you are correct, you fail to see that these are not the concerns of a Conservative government. Their concerns are to cut services whenever possible, thereby allowing them to claim to be saving the country money. At the same time, they'll implement all sorts of "get tough on crime" legislation which they and the populace don't realize is unnecessary, because they don't bother to look at statistics on crime rates, etc. It's all about enhancing our Freedom, while imposing the will of the moral majority...


The concern of a conservative government should be to spend tax money in the most efficient way possible. By that standard, this government doesn't qualify as conservative, seeing as they are spending around like drunken sailors. To wit, buying a bunch of fighter jets that are unsuited for Canada's needs, while our troops go around Kandahar in half-a**ed armour.

Harper is a social conservative, and that's where it ends. Everything he does is subsumed into his social agenda, which is based on an idealized image of Canada as a rural, Christian country where white males hold all the power. He's completely blind to the true consequences of his decisions, and that is appalling considering he's a farking economist. It's like he just took his Economics 101 books and smoked them.
 
2010-07-18 09:24:23 PM  

kpottruff: Quantum Apostrophe: Good, we need to spend money for 65 F-35s instead.

You'll get over it.


We need better GPS anklets for parolees too.
 
2010-07-18 09:26:14 PM  
"Long-Form Census Crisis Rocks Canada"

See, Canada, this is why the cool countries don't return your calls.
 
2010-07-18 09:29:57 PM  

towatchoverme: "Long-Form Census Crisis Rocks Canada"

See, Canada, this is why the cool countries don't return your calls.


Because they can't afford to?

Go ahead, call collect, we'll accept the charges.
 
2010-07-18 09:32:32 PM  

kpottruff: Quantum Apostrophe: Good, we need to spend money for 65 F-35s instead.

You'll get over it.


Yes, the threats from enemy bombers and fighters are at an all-time high. I feel safer already.
 
2010-07-18 09:37:42 PM  

Yzziefrog: misanthropologist: Yzziefrog:
There were 61 questions in 2006, covering everything needed to properly allocate government resources. Just counting noses is useless. If do not have a good handle of an area's demographic data, then budgeting becomes a guessing game. You will end up with resource imbalances that will cause service shortage and underusage at the same time.

While you are correct, you fail to see that these are not the concerns of a Conservative government. Their concerns are to cut services whenever possible, thereby allowing them to claim to be saving the country money. At the same time, they'll implement all sorts of "get tough on crime" legislation which they and the populace don't realize is unnecessary, because they don't bother to look at statistics on crime rates, etc. It's all about enhancing our Freedom, while imposing the will of the moral majority...

The concern of a conservative government should be to spend tax money in the most efficient way possible. By that standard, this government doesn't qualify as conservative, seeing as they are spending around like drunken sailors. To wit, buying a bunch of fighter jets that are unsuited for Canada's needs, while our troops go around Kandahar in half-a**ed armour.

Harper is a social conservative, and that's where it ends. Everything he does is subsumed into his social agenda, which is based on an idealized image of Canada as a rural, Christian country where white males hold all the power. He's completely blind to the true consequences of his decisions, and that is appalling considering he's a farking economist. It's like he just took his Economics 101 books and smoked them.


He didn't smoke them. That would be morally wrong.
 
2010-07-18 09:42:20 PM  

towatchoverme: "Long-Form Census Crisis Rocks Canada"

See, Canada, this is why the cool countries don't return your calls.


At least it's not Nickelback.
 
2010-07-18 09:44:50 PM  
A Census worker came to my house to do the census. Me, I'm a bit of an ass. So I didn't admit to being white of European decent, and I also said that my wife was also not white from European decent (which she is). Instead I put us down as other. When the census worker asked to define 'other' I said that my wife was a Klingon and I was a Time Lord on my forth regeneration.
 
2010-07-18 09:45:36 PM  

dg41: The question I have from reading that article: is Canada's census form really 40 pages?


Well, it has to be written in English, French and Inuit; and the Inuit famously have 20 words for snow, so that part is going to be a lot longer than the rest.
 
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