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(The Courier)   Allowing citizens to build 36-foot-tall windmills would be horribly dangerous to the Royal Air Force, says spokesman Don Quixote   (thecourier.co.uk) divider line
    More: Silly, Don Quixote, RAF, windmills, Ministry of Defence, Scottish Government, power generators, obstruction  
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3917 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Jun 2010 at 10:15 AM (10 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



50 Comments     (+0 »)
 
 
2010-06-15 9:01:17 AM  
could interfere with MoD radar

Somehow I'm picturing radar with a miniskirt and go-go boots.
 
2010-06-15 9:10:57 AM  
"Don't call me señor! I'm not a Spanish person. You must call me Mr Biggles, or Group Captain Biggles or Mary Biggles if I'm dressed as my wife, but never señor."

cultureandcommunication.orgView Full Size
 
2010-06-15 9:21:35 AM  
Scotland's cool enough without a bunch of windmills cooling it down even further.
 
2010-06-15 9:30:30 AM  
So the radar is going to constantly say "OMG OMG OMG there's tons of stuff moving around between the ground and 36 feet!"

Which leaves Scotland vulnerable to attack by anything flying lower than 36 feet.

And makes it unsafe for the RAF to fly lower than 36 feet.

I think.
 
2010-06-15 10:13:30 AM  

syrynxx: Scotland's cool enough without a bunch of windmills cooling it down even further.


THAT IS NOT HOW WINDMILLS no this is obviously a setup
 
2010-06-15 10:16:21 AM  

dbirchall: So the radar is going to constantly say "OMG OMG OMG there's tons of stuff moving around between the ground and 36 feet!"

Which leaves Scotland vulnerable to attack by anything flying lower than 36 feet.

And makes it unsafe for the RAF to fly lower than 36 feet.

I think.


Gotta watch out for those sneaky Faeroe Islanders.
 
2010-06-15 10:17:15 AM  
Couldn't they just build 40' radar towers?
 
2010-06-15 10:18:08 AM  
I do recall a story from WWII about the Dam Buster squadron where their training in low level flying annoyed/frightened the locals enough that the local police officer politely inquired as to whether the pilots had valid drivers licences.
 
2010-06-15 10:19:33 AM  
[image from sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net too old to be available]

These, however are ok. 400 some odd feet high. Causes Doppler to see tornadoes.

They're going up near my home as I type this.
 
2010-06-15 10:21:58 AM  

dbirchall: So the radar is going to constantly say "OMG OMG OMG there's tons of stuff moving around between the ground and 36 feet!"

Which leaves Scotland vulnerable to attack by anything flying lower than 36 feet.

And makes it unsafe for the RAF to fly lower than 36 feet.

I think.


It's worse than that. Due to the way the processing of radar returns works, there's a significantly larger (i.e., higher than 36 feet) area of clutter that causes most tracks within the line of sight between radar and windfarm (regardless of altitude) to disappear in clutter. See, for example, this study (new window).
 
2010-06-15 10:22:00 AM  
The military in a free society should conform to the rest of us and not the other way around. And I say that as a supporter of the military. If windmills are happening and are likely a part of the landscape for the future, deal with it.
 
2010-06-15 10:23:34 AM  
This windmill is sad:
biggovernment.comView Full Size
 
2010-06-15 10:26:23 AM  
Couldn't they just add another balloon to their basket or chair and go a little higher?
 
2010-06-15 10:27:30 AM  
I thought most radar (if not all) couldn't even detect stuff at that altitude.


At least that is what Hollywood has taught me. The good guys fly in low, under the enemy radar, and deliver the good guy onto the remote island where he kills an entire army of bad goons, and then fist fights the boss until he kill him in some gruesome fashion. Like a pipe through the chest.

Then he resuces his daughter and the back up arrives. Late.
 
2010-06-15 10:27:42 AM  
I can see the point of misrepresenting TFA in order to make a good joke, subby....but that was piss poor.
 
2010-06-15 10:30:21 AM  
I always thought Don Q should be updated for a movie.
 
2010-06-15 10:30:53 AM  

syrynxx: Scotland's cool enough without a bunch of windmills cooling it down even further.


blogodisea.comView Full Size


"I see what you're doing there, but I'm not going to take the bait, puny human."
 
2010-06-15 10:31:46 AM  
Actor Richard Kiley approves, but was funnier as the orderly in Mel Brooks "High Anxiety".

richardkiley.comView Full Size


/Hotlinked
 
2010-06-15 10:31:53 AM  

dbirchall: So the radar is going to constantly say "OMG OMG OMG there's tons of stuff moving around between the ground and 36 feet!"

Which leaves Scotland vulnerable to attack by anything flying lower than 36 feet.

And makes it unsafe for the RAF to fly lower than 36 feet.

I think.


i think its more to do with the fact that Scotland is where the RAF practise low level flying through all the valleys etc (which seems bloody fun) so if large structures are suddenly built it could cause serious problems
 
2010-06-15 10:37:02 AM  

dbirchall: So the radar is going to constantly say "OMG OMG OMG there's tons of stuff moving around between the ground and 36 feet!"

Which leaves Scotland vulnerable to attack by anything flying lower than 36 feet.

And makes it unsafe for the RAF to fly lower than 36 feet.

I think.


To be fair, I think it's probably unsafe for anyone to fly lower than 36 feet.
 
2010-06-15 10:41:38 AM  
img215.imageshack.usView Full Size


img195.imageshack.usView Full Size
 
2010-06-15 10:44:08 AM  

el wharrrgarblo: I thought most radar (if not all) couldn't even detect stuff at that altitude.


At least that is what Hollywood has taught me. The good guys fly in low, under the enemy radar, and deliver the good guy onto the remote island where he kills an entire army of bad goons, and then fist fights the boss until he kill him in some gruesome fashion. Like a pipe through the chest.

Then he resuces his daughter and the back up arrives. Late.


also, they used a boat in the film Commando didnt they?? (or am i getting confused)
 
2010-06-15 10:46:13 AM  
katerbug72: 400 some odd feet high. Causes Doppler to see tornadoes.

400 feet high? Really?
 
2010-06-15 10:47:41 AM  

brawberrys: el wharrrgarblo: I thought most radar (if not all) couldn't even detect stuff at that altitude.


At least that is what Hollywood has taught me. The good guys fly in low, under the enemy radar, and deliver the good guy onto the remote island where he kills an entire army of bad goons, and then fist fights the boss until he kill him in some gruesome fashion. Like a pipe through the chest.

Then he resuces his daughter and the back up arrives. Late.

also, they used a boat in the film Commando didnt they?? (or am i getting confused)


Nope, it was a plane flown by Rae Dawn Chong.
 
2010-06-15 10:55:45 AM  

Edsel:
Nope, it was a plane flown by Rae Dawn Chong.


[image from biocrawler.com too old to be available]

approves
 
2010-06-15 10:55:55 AM  

THX 1138: 400 feet high? Really?


Yeah, the biggest turbines are on 250' pedestals and the rotors might reach another 100', so I could see 400'.

Also, if you coated your blades with radar-absorbant material would everything be okay?
 
2010-06-15 10:59:43 AM  

Edsel: brawberrys: el wharrrgarblo: I thought most radar (if not all) couldn't even detect stuff at that altitude.


At least that is what Hollywood has taught me. The good guys fly in low, under the enemy radar, and deliver the good guy onto the remote island where he kills an entire army of bad goons, and then fist fights the boss until he kill him in some gruesome fashion. Like a pipe through the chest.

Then he resuces his daughter and the back up arrives. Late.

also, they used a boat in the film Commando didnt they?? (or am i getting confused)

Nope, it was a plane flown by Rae Dawn Chong.


hmm, im sure i remember some kind of wierd tug boat thing... maybe im getting my films confused (or is that how they got off the island?)
 
2010-06-15 11:00:22 AM  

Edsel:
Nope, it was a plane flown by Rae Dawn Chong.


I liked her better in Quest for Fire.
 
2010-06-15 11:01:02 AM  

THX 1138: katerbug72: 400 some odd feet high. Causes Doppler to see tornadoes.

400 feet high? Really?


To the blade tips, yeah. You can see them and hear them rumble for miles. The towers are typically 200-300 feet tall, and the blades are 60 to 150 feet long, so yeah, they could be 400 feet tall.
 
2010-06-15 11:03:30 AM  

madgonad: THX 1138: 400 feet high? Really?

Yeah, the biggest turbines are on 250' pedestals and the rotors might reach another 100', so I could see 400'.

Also, if you coated your blades with radar-absorbant material would everything be okay?


It would remove the clutter, but it would also likely at least partially mask whatever was behind it, so that's not necessarily a good solution.
 
2010-06-15 11:03:32 AM  

dittybopper: Edsel:
Nope, it was a plane flown by Rae Dawn Chong.

I liked her better in Quest for Fire.


Everyone liked her better in Quest for Fire. She was nekkid and didn't speak any intelligible words. What's not to like?
 
2010-06-15 11:08:56 AM  
They need the towers to be shorter, eh?

Perhaps the solution involves tilting of some manner...
 
2010-06-15 11:09:38 AM  
Namahs.....epic

/for the honor of Dulcinea
 
2010-06-15 11:18:29 AM  
They might be giants.
 
2010-06-15 11:22:00 AM  
we tried windmills back in the 80s after the opec embargo. they didn't outlive their financing.

think we'll have any better luck this time around, or will we go back to seeing windmills tethered because they're too expensive to run?
 
2010-06-15 11:27:45 AM  
Ball of Confusion: we tried windmills back in the 80s after the opec embargo. they didn't outlive their financing.

think we'll have any better luck this time around, or will we go back to seeing windmills tethered because they're too expensive to run?


I am still wondering who will be servicing all these windmills 10 or 20 years from now. I keep imagining parts deteriorating and turbines flying in the streets.
 
2010-06-15 11:35:46 AM  

ronaprhys: dittybopper: Edsel:
Nope, it was a plane flown by Rae Dawn Chong.

I liked her better in Quest for Fire.

Everyone liked her better in Quest for Fire. She was nekkid and didn't speak any intelligible words. What's not to like?


Plus, that movie had atlatls. Any movie with atlatls in it is an instant classic.
 
2010-06-15 11:35:50 AM  

StoPPeRmobile: Ball of Confusion: we tried windmills back in the 80s after the opec embargo. they didn't outlive their financing.

think we'll have any better luck this time around, or will we go back to seeing windmills tethered because they're too expensive to run?

I am still wondering who will be servicing all these windmills 10 or 20 years from now. I keep imagining parts deteriorating and turbines flying in the streets.


If they're well-placed, well-designed, and proper PM is followed they should be able to pay for themselves well enough to allow for regular maintenance.

Of course, if they aren't...
 
2010-06-15 11:42:03 AM  

dittybopper: Plus, that movie had atlatls. Any movie with atlatls in it is an instant classic.


Zardoz might've had atlatls. I can't remember, but it did have bunches of incredibly weird crap.
 
2010-06-15 11:46:14 AM  

StoPPeRmobile: I keep imagining parts deteriorating and turbines flying in the streets.


Right, 'flying in the streets'...I keep imagining us all choking on polluted air.
 
2010-06-15 11:56:23 AM  

THX 1138: katerbug72: 400 some odd feet high. Causes Doppler to see tornadoes.

400 feet high? Really?


Turbine effects on Doppler Radar (new window)
 
2010-06-15 11:58:10 AM  

katerbug72: THX 1138: katerbug72: 400 some odd feet high. Causes Doppler to see tornadoes.

400 feet high? Really?

Turbine effects on Doppler Radar (new window)


Wouldn't it be easy to filter such out provided there was a standardized turbine design/size (the other way to go would be rotation speed, but obviously that varies)? Or is my knowledge of physics just screwed up.
 
2010-06-15 12:00:40 PM  

StoPPeRmobile: Ball of Confusion: we tried windmills back in the 80s after the opec embargo. they didn't outlive their financing.

think we'll have any better luck this time around, or will we go back to seeing windmills tethered because they're too expensive to run?

I am still wondering who will be servicing all these windmills 10 or 20 years from now. I keep imagining parts deteriorating and turbines flying in the streets.


Eh I'm fine with subsidizing turbines. It's better than most of the job creation crap we have been doing lately (we don't need more government jobs). The fact is, even as chinese workers begin to demand higher wages, manufacturing won't return that fast to the USA. We all can't work in the service, entertainment, or medical industries, so I'm fine with there being more skilled windmill repair men.
 
2010-06-15 12:00:52 PM  

KarmicDisaster: THX 1138: katerbug72: 400 some odd feet high. Causes Doppler to see tornadoes.

400 feet high? Really?

To the blade tips, yeah. You can see them and hear them rumble for miles. The towers are typically 200-300 feet tall, and the blades are 60 to 150 feet long, so yeah, they could be 400 feet tall.


Yep. The one that is about a kilometer away from my house looks like it's next door, it's so big. I can see it from at least 10 km (6.25 miles) away.
 
2010-06-15 12:01:04 PM  
katerbug72
2010-06-15 10:19:33 AM

These, however are ok. 400 some odd feet high. Causes Doppler to see tornadoes.

****
Instead of listening to a bunch of old farts at a town council meeting yelling NIMBY because it scares me.
Try finding out how Doppler really works. Go to your local tv station and ask to speak with those who run the site.
 
2010-06-15 12:04:30 PM  

The_Homeless_Guy: katerbug72: THX 1138: katerbug72: 400 some odd feet high. Causes Doppler to see tornadoes.

400 feet high? Really?

Turbine effects on Doppler Radar (new window)

Wouldn't it be easy to filter such out provided there was a standardized turbine design/size (the other way to go would be rotation speed, but obviously that varies)? Or is my knowledge of physics just screwed up.


I'm not sure. I would like to think they will come up with something, being that there will be about 1000 of these in my county and my county is located in Tornado Alley (between Barrie and Windsor, Ontario) it's not a mistake I would like the meteorologists to make. We just had a tornado rip through the southern part of the county last week.
 
2010-06-15 12:52:23 PM  

ronaprhys: dittybopper: Plus, that movie had atlatls. Any movie with atlatls in it is an instant classic.

Zardoz might've had atlatls. I can't remember, but it did have bunches of incredibly weird crap.


I don't think it did, but it's been decades since I saw it. Why have atlatls in a movie about how guns are good?
 
2010-06-15 1:01:27 PM  

dittybopper: I don't think it did, but it's been decades since I saw it. Why have atlatls in a movie about how guns are good?


Luckily I was good and drunk when I saw it, so that might be fuzzing my memory a bit. Hell, I've seen so many movies that were so bad they became good it's somewhat frightening. Gor still ranks as one of the better of that group, right behind Beastmaster.
 
2010-06-15 1:44:35 PM  
Oddly, right on the outskirts of the town TFA is from, there are a couple rather large windmills.
 
2010-06-15 2:53:37 PM  
Donkey Hotey
 
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