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(Toronto Sun)   Journalist points out all the benefits of a red-light district in cities: safety for both prostitutes and citizens, healthier, taxes raised for city, tourism increase. But remember, sex is a SIN   (torontosun.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, T.O., red-light districts, canals, pimps, prostitution, tourists, Amsterdam, Councillor Mammoliti  
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4902 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 May 2010 at 9:49 AM (12 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2010-05-09 9:44:52 AM  
In the words of George Carlin, why is it legal to pay for services or to fark but not to pay to fark?
 
2010-05-09 9:52:21 AM  
The same people opposed to legal prostitution would drive trucks like this one...

youdrivewhat.comView Full Size


Git God dun!
 
2010-05-09 9:53:55 AM  
i133.photobucket.comView Full Size
 
2010-05-09 9:54:12 AM  
Could it also be that most red light districts are in or near areas where the government seats of power are?

/just an observation
//drtfa
 
2010-05-09 9:55:04 AM  

bravian: Could it also be that most red light districts are in or near areas where the government seats of power are?

/just an observation
//drtfa


So they should make Toronto the capital of Canada??
 
2010-05-09 9:56:58 AM  
Rhode Island just closed a loophole that up until recently made indoor prostitution legal. Since it was closed, there doesn't seem to be much difference in Rhode Island either was. I don't think crime is worse or better compared to before, although now I guess R.I. has to spend more money or time going after all the prostitutes who are now commuting a crime.


The indoor RI prostitution exception had to be the worst kept secret in this area. Before the law was changed a friend said was in a bachelor party that wound up at Cheaters in Providence. He said the girls basically just told you what was available for what price. Said he'd never seen it so open before. I wonder if that club has closed down since the change.

 
2010-05-09 9:57:29 AM  

mcreadyblue: So they should make Toronto the capital of Canada??


Just to piss off Alberta, yes.
 
2010-05-09 9:57:30 AM  
Sex is a sin only if you do it right.
 
2010-05-09 9:58:03 AM  
Heh, sorry for the typos.
 
2010-05-09 9:58:07 AM  

mcreadyblue: bravian: Could it also be that most red light districts are in or near areas where the government seats of power are?

/just an observation
//drtfa

So they should make Toronto the capital of Canada??


They already think they are.
 
2010-05-09 10:02:54 AM  

bravian: Could it also be that most red light districts are in or near areas where the government seats of power are?

/just an observation
//drtfa


In The Netherlands everything is near everything.
 
2010-05-09 10:03:17 AM  

Rozinante: They already think they are.


Lets stop kidding ourselves here. Toronto is its OWN country.
 
2010-05-09 10:05:27 AM  

StrikitRich: Sex is a sin only if you do it right.


False.
 
2010-05-09 10:12:33 AM  
This is actually one of the better articles I've read in the StUN. Normally they're a less ballsy NYpost with a more socially conservative outlook... but I guess having real social conservatives in federal office makes them socially liberal by default, in some ways.

We actually had a Rd Light district on the books fifteen years ago, but nobody could figure out where to put one. Was originally going to be the portlands but city hall was worried about having to fish hookers out of the water every so often.

My suggestion? Toronto Island. We can call it "Whoronto Island".
 
2010-05-09 10:14:28 AM  

StrikitRich: Sex is a sin only if you do it right.


If sex is a pain in the ass, you're doing it wrong.

/oblig
 
2010-05-09 10:16:22 AM  

funmonger: Rozinante: They already think they are.

Lets stop kidding ourselves here. Toronto is its OWN country.


Toronto thinks it's part of the United States.
 
2010-05-09 10:23:38 AM  

FunkOut: funmonger: Rozinante: They already think they are.

Lets stop kidding ourselves here. Toronto is its OWN country.

Toronto thinks it's part of the United States.


Toronto thinks it's part of the USA, but with less crime and legalised prostitution and semi-legal pot. And better ethnic restaurants.
 
2010-05-09 10:25:46 AM  
Canada should move their capital to Iqaluit.
 
2010-05-09 10:34:20 AM  
There's a little more to it than just sin:

Crabs
Scabies
Chlamydia
Gonorrhea
Syphilis
Hepatitis
HIV/AIDS

Condoms help but aren't 100% guaranteed to protect you and legal or not, not all women who are prostitutes want to be prostitutes. It may work OK for single men but if you have a girlfriend or wife prostitution is going to hurt your relationship/marriage.
 
2010-05-09 10:37:28 AM  

dbrunker: There's a little more to it than just sin:

Crabs
Scabies
Chlamydia
Gonorrhea
Syphilis
Hepatitis
HIV/AIDS

Condoms help but aren't 100% guaranteed to protect you and legal or not, not all women who are prostitutes want to be prostitutes. It may work OK for single men but if you have a girlfriend or wife prostitution using the services of prostitutes is going to hurt your relationship/marriage if you're still having sex with your wife.


FTFY.
 
2010-05-09 10:52:18 AM  

mcreadyblue: bravian: Could it also be that most red light districts are in or near areas where the government seats of power are?

/just an observation
//drtfa

So they should make Toronto the capital of Canada??


Wait, it's not?
 
2010-05-09 11:03:39 AM  

FunkOut: Toronto thinks it's part of the United States.


Toronto likes turtles.
 
2010-05-09 11:08:44 AM  

dbrunker: There's a little more to it than just sin:

Crabs
Scabies
Chlamydia
Gonorrhea
Syphilis
Hepatitis
HIV/AIDS

Condoms help but aren't 100% guaranteed to protect you and legal or not, not all women who are prostitutes want to be prostitutes. It may work OK for single men but if you have a girlfriend or wife prostitution is going to hurt your relationship/marriage.


The whole point of legalizing it, besides a new revenue stream for government, is to test and treat prostitutes for health issues. Because right now, wherever you live, there already is prostitution. And all of the diseases you listed already happen and are still spread, only right now without any real chance of treatment or oversight, so they spread faster.
 
2010-05-09 11:11:56 AM  

dbrunker: There's a little more to it than just sin:

Crabs
Scabies
Chlamydia
Gonorrhea
Syphilis
Hepatitis
HIV/AIDS

Condoms help but aren't 100% guaranteed to protect you and legal or not...


With legality and taxation comes quality control. Once it is out in the open, I would have less fear of those things in my favorite local whores. Driving it underground is part of what makes it dangerous, which can also be said for other great sins, like drug use and abortion.

dbrunker: ...not all women who are prostitutes want to be prostitutes. ...


Not all UPS truck drivers want to be UPS truck drivers. Not all lower-middle management slaves want to be lower-middle management slaves . But I understand what you are getting at, and I hardly think it is a reason to oppose legalization. If anything,I would expect legalization to cut down the human trafficking that occurs in the underground market today.

dbrunker: It may work OK for single men but if you have a girlfriend or wife prostitution is going to hurt your relationship/marriage.


And I certainly hope THAT isn't an argument against prostitution or the legalization of it. Dear sir, not all relationships are monogamous. Not all families are nuclear. Should an entire society base its laws around what only a segment of the population wants? Of course we should (see once again drug laws, abortion). Why do people insist that others live according to their standards?

/someone let me know if I just fed a troll
//I can't tell anymore
///or maybe you were arguing something else
//I don't know
/it's early
 
2010-05-09 11:14:46 AM  

funmonger: Rozinante: They already think they are.

Lets stop kidding ourselves here. Toronto is its OWN country.


No, no it doesn't.
 
2010-05-09 11:16:20 AM  

DeaH: No, no it doesn't.


Doesn't what?

DON'T LEAVE ME HANGIN' BRO
 
2010-05-09 11:17:35 AM  

dbrunker: There's a little more to it than just sin:

Crabs
Scabies
Chlamydia
Gonorrhea
Syphilis
Hepatitis
HIV/AIDS

Condoms help but aren't 100% guaranteed to protect you and legal or not, not all women who are prostitutes want to be prostitutes. It may work OK for single men but if you have a girlfriend or wife prostitution is going to hurt your relationship/marriage.


Actually, this is better for the wives and girlfriends of men who sleep around. Right now, a hooker has very little power to enforce the use of condoms.
 
2010-05-09 11:19:20 AM  
Great Idea. Usually I avoid the Sun (like a plague of body lice), but I think keeping the working women safe makes wonderful sense. Prostitution itself is actually not illegal here. "Communication for the purposes of" is.

I don't think it would work so well in my neighbourhood, which is West-Central residential and not really dense enough. In my minds eye, I see it fitting into the Kensington Market area - narrow streets, lots of store fronts, a pre-existing European market flavour.

I would not mind having it nearby, nor would I mind having a marijuana cafe nearby either. I have lived in areas with a lot of street prostition before, and moving it indoors would be a huge improvement.
 
2010-05-09 11:19:45 AM  

dbrunker: It may work OK for single men but if you have a girlfriend or wife prostitution is going to hurt your relationship/marriage.


Yeah but what if your wife is a hooker? WHAT THEN, college-boy?
 
2010-05-09 11:19:50 AM  
When dating, one generally buys a lot of stuff for their significant other, in the hopes of eventually getting in their pants. Prostitution just removes the middleman.

/unless you pay extra.
 
2010-05-09 11:24:41 AM  

Evil Canadian: I see it fitting into the Kensington Market area


Between CAMH, the CoZo and the shelter, College/Spadina is already a perfect storm of disaffected wierdos. Adding whores would turn it into a Calcutta slum. C'mon man, Theatre district! Hell some of 'em might make good actresses too.
 
2010-05-09 11:32:01 AM  

DeaH: Right now, a hooker has very little power to enforce the use of condoms.


Huh?
 
2010-05-09 11:32:49 AM  

funmonger: Evil Canadian: I see it fitting into the Kensington Market area

Between CAMH, the CoZo and the shelter, College/Spadina is already a perfect storm of disaffected wierdos. Adding whores would turn it into a Calcutta slum. C'mon man, Theatre district! Hell some of 'em might make good actresses too.


Hadn't thought of that, but neat idea. Or maybe send it a bit over to the clubbing district. Or redevelop Parkdale, though you get into the disaffected weirdo thing there too. In a way, it might be a bit more entertaining waiting for a my bus at King/Dufferin if it was a regular red light district rather than the mishmash of puking drunks and delusional characters it is now.
 
2010-05-09 11:36:24 AM  
It reminds me of a thing that happened a while ago, when I turned 18 my friends decided to do a "sin tour" to pretty much every dive bar, strip club, and massage parlor in town. We first bought a shiatload of condoms, first, and headed our way. They even had been saving money just for this very occasion. Hell, I had to do pretty the driving, since most of my friends (and girlfriend, at that time) were mostly 17, all with fake IDs to go with it. A couple were 18, and pretty much were the brains behind the thing, and my girlfriend was just excited to go to a strip club (beats me).

I was plastered with cheap beer, motor-boated so many fake boobies, and pretty much f
 
2010-05-09 11:40:57 AM  
Don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but this would help cut down on the WORST aspect of prostitution today - pimping.

Women would have a typee of guild, protected by law (and therefore the cops) that Mr Goldteef McDaddy couldn't intimidate anymore...

...and therefore cut down on runaways and little girls getting dragged into a sorry, scary business.
 
2010-05-09 11:45:58 AM  
The best part of legalised red-light districts? We would no longer see police officers high-fiving each other on COPS for busting 75-year old johns that want a roll in the hay.
 
2010-05-09 11:49:43 AM  

dbrunker: It may work OK for single men but if you have a girlfriend or wife prostitution is going to hurt your relationship/marriage.


And how is it going to hurt my marriage? I'm not planning on banging any hookers and I don't think my wife is, either. Funny thing, it won't make the slightest bit of difference in our marriage if neither of us have any intention of participating! Nice assumptions, you prick.

/Although wife took me to a strip club for my bday last week
//I think she had more fun than I did with the girls
///Giggity
 
F42
2010-05-09 11:55:41 AM  

dbrunker: There's a little more to it than just sin:

Crabs
Scabies
Chlamydia
Gonorrhea
Syphilis
Hepatitis
HIV/AIDS


How is illegality protecting people from all this?

Seriously, these are all real problems right now happening despite the policy you defend.
 
2010-05-09 12:03:14 PM  
You can tell which Canadians are not from Toronto, because all they do is talk about Toronto.
 
2010-05-09 12:06:06 PM  

dbrunker: It may work OK for single men but if you have a girlfriend or wife prostitution is going to hurt your relationship/marriage.


It's not the state's job to enforce monogamy, especially through criminal law. If a wife wants to legally penalize adultery, then that's what Divorce Court is for. Plus, the guy who's willing to cheat with a prostitute isn't suddenly gonna change his mind when there are no professionals for it. He'll just sleep with a non-prostitute, and even if he can't find one that'll sleep with his lardy ugly ass, the committed intent to cheat means the marriage is already on the rocks pretty good.
 
2010-05-09 12:09:12 PM  
Rational Population:
"Legalizing ______ would solve the following problems that currently plague ALL people, *insert massive litany of problems here* and while we admit it may be a tad unsavory, the end game is to keep people safe, get the appropriate safeguards for society, and provide some enforcement and regulation that keeps most of those "big" problems in check but... it's considered a "sin" by some of your groups."

Religious Leaders:
"No, absolutely not!! Better that a million should suffer and die horribly than any of the other religions/party members/competition/media ever see us agreeing with that! They could use it against us, and we'd have less power and money. No thanks! We'll just fall back on "God" to allow us to be evil by the standards of man, and safe by the standards of the bible, Uhm...that is unless you guys want to legalize pedophilia,..then we're in!!"

The only reason prostitution is legal in Nevada is because the church leaders didn't want to fark with the only group who was more ruthless about getting money and power than they were at the time. "Allow sin or have Fat Tony's boys teach me what it's like eat through a tube for the rest of my life?..Hmmm welcome to Nevada!,..but we're going to ACT like we're down on this, even though we'll going to put all our money and resources towards other areas ok?"
 
2010-05-09 12:09:32 PM  

gopher321: Don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but this would help cut down on the WORST aspect of prostitution today - pimping.

Women would have a typee of guild, protected by law (and therefore the cops) that Mr Goldteef McDaddy couldn't intimidate anymore...

...and therefore cut down on runaways and little girls getting dragged into a sorry, scary business.


It depends on how it is legalized. If you look at Nevada as an example, where legal sex workers are required to work in a licensed brothel, the brothel owners are essentially pimps. But because they are licensed and monitored, the abuses do not happen. At least none worse than working for any regular boss.


The point of legalizing it is to put women in power of their own lives, which is one reason why it probably will not happen in this country, since conservative like their women in the kitchen, and liberals like victims they can politically exploit.

If you legalize it as a licensed business, like other body-service businesses like legitimate massage, barbers, cosmetologists, etc, it can be regulated in ways that protect those involved and ensure it is done in a way society can tolerate.

Elimination of pimps.
Regular health checkups.
Reports of anyone found with infections, in a discreet way.
Ability to call the police as a legitimate and legal member of society without fear of being abused and exploited by the cops.
Ability to charge bad customers with theft, assault etc, if things go wrong.
Controlling the place if occurs, like off the streets, so it is not in front of people homes, schools, businesses, etc.
Ensuring those that are licensed are in the country legally, to help stop trafficking and coercion.
Ensuring those that are licensed are of legal age to help curb exploitation of children.
Freeing up police time to go after the real criminals that do assault women, traffic and exploit women and children.


There really is no downside to legalization, except for the howls of the ignorant religious right that think anything to do with genitalia is a sin, and the howls of outrage from the activist womyns left who think all womyn are victims of male oppression and want all things depicting or involving female genitalia or sexuality must be banned.

All of which means it will not happen in this country in the lifetime of anyone reading this.

And they say Humans aren't monkeys. Hell even apes know better than this (new window).
 
2010-05-09 12:27:36 PM  
They need to do this in the US. As others have mentioned there is a long list of ways this improves safety and society. Prostitution has been around forver, the Catholic Church used to have the market cornered in the Middle Ages, they ran brothels. The people who scream about it being immoral or a sin need to be forced to explain why they are for all of the bad side effects of the current system or STFU. Blue laws need to be banned. If you can't find a non religious reason for a law repeal it.
 
2010-05-09 12:31:24 PM  

tomWright: There really is no downside to legalization, except for the howls of the ignorant religious right


This is true of anything that involves private behavior or the activities of consenting adults.
If you criminalize that type thing then the result is, inevitably, that you require a police state, both intrusive and disrespectful of individual rights, to try and enforce that criminalization.
The other inevitable result is that the activity in question will continue in a more destructive way because sensible legal restrictions, the kind where there is a victim to complain, become impossible.
 
2010-05-09 12:32:46 PM  

Omis: You can tell which Canadians are not from Toronto, because all they do is talk about Toronto.


Actually, I'm from near Vancouver and all I usually talk about is Newfoundland.
 
2010-05-09 12:35:28 PM  
Starting a redlight district while Harper is PM? Good f---'n luck.
 
2010-05-09 1:22:55 PM  

PirateFreedom: tomWright: There really is no downside to legalization, except for the howls of the ignorant religious right

This is true of anything that involves private behavior or the activities of consenting adults.


True. Except for beer. They tend to be very much in favor of beer. And scotch.

Oh, and public men's rooms. at least in private. or something.


If you criminalize that type thing then the result is, inevitably, that you require a police state, both intrusive and disrespectful of individual rights, to try and enforce that criminalization.

This has been true for everything from drugs, to alcohol, to porn, religious literature, political samizdat, birth control pamphlets, endangered species, guns, pet animals,...
Hell, the list of things humans and the insanely stupid reasons humans come up with to ban them is never ending.

The other inevitable result is that the activity in question will continue in a more destructive way because sensible legal restrictions, the kind where there is a victim to complain, become impossible.

Precisely. That does not mean no regulation, just not banning it and turning control over to organized crime. Permitting non-harmful parts of the activities, trying to stop the harmful ones and seeking restitution for the victims of the harmful ones.

There is evidence that various forms of prohibition encourage more harmful versions of these activities. Banning opiates, cocaine and marijuana have led to the trafficking of more potent forms that can be smuggled in smaller more easily concealed shipments. While morphine, heroine and cocaine are pharmaceuticals, and available anyway, I do not know many people that prefer sticking needles in themselves over smoking a pipe of opium, or sniffing powder or smoking crack over drinking tea or having a chew.

The natural forms of the drugs will have the same effects, but with fewer health consequences. Prohibition drives an increase in riskier behavior even when not including the association with criminal gang violence.

To get back to prostitution, the criminalization of it drives it underground and removes those involved from the protection of society. By driving it unto the shadows it allows the worst aspects of it to flourish, like child prostitution, and trafficking in unwilling women. (99% or better are female).

Here in NJ there is not a year that goes by where I do not see a news report of women killed or severely beaten while engaging in prostitution. And not just in urban areas. I can only imagine the numbers not reported, or the numbers that occur in more urban areas.

There seems to be not a month that goes by without a report of a police arrest or sting occurring at a local massage parlor or hotel. And not seedy no-tell-motels, but fancier ones like Ramada, Marriott, Hilton, etc.

It is rampant, it is all over the place, in it's illegal form it bring violence and social damage. Keeping it illegal is insane. Which is probably why it will remain illegal.

Politics and sanity have little to do with each other.

/damn.
//rant-fest
///apologies
 
2010-05-09 1:50:20 PM  
Never happen
 
2010-05-09 2:00:20 PM  
[image from pix.motivatedphotos.com too old to be available]

/Legalize it
 
2010-05-09 2:12:54 PM  

stuffy: Never happen


It would easily pass if put to a vote in Toronto.
 
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