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(SacBee)   Served your time in prison? Good for you. Don't believe in God? Fark you, you're going back   (sacbee.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, believe in gods, prisons  
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25366 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 Apr 2010 at 5:41 PM (11 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2010-04-17 1:29:55 PM  
I agree with this guy. I'd be appalled if I was forced to attend a program where I was told that "a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity".

What a load of hooey.
 
2010-04-17 1:30:35 PM  
The religious: Other than telling you how to live your life, they don't want to have a farking thing to do with you.
 
2010-04-17 1:30:55 PM  
When Hazle asked to be moved to a program that was not faith-based, he was told - wrongly, as it turned out - there was none in Northern California....That same day Crofoot called Hazle out of an Empire treatment class, arrested him on a parole violation for not participating in the very program he was attending, and booked him into the Shasta County jail....But in court, the state argued that Hazle's return to prison was because of his behavior.


Wow, bullshiat all the way around

1) Lied to about the lack of a non-religious treatment facility
2) Arrested for a probation violation which he literally did not commit.
3 Spent 3 months in jail over this
4) Someone lied on official court documents about his behavior at the facility.

I hope his probation officer loses his position of authority.
 
2010-04-17 1:38:23 PM  
But but but... they don't make reference to a specific God, and more often than not refer to a "higher power" so clearly this isn't establishing a religion, right, since no specific religion is referred to, right?

So I look forward to seeing the 'tards who believe that (and who so strongly disagreed to the "national prayer day" ruling) come in and make the case as to why the state didn't really breech the establishment clause.
 
2010-04-17 1:38:28 PM  
i224.photobucket.comView Full Size
 
2010-04-17 1:48:17 PM  
He should have sued over being placed in a drug treatment program that doesn't work (new window).

/yeah, I know...works for some people, saved some people, blah blah blah.
//you should use what works for you, not be ordered into something that worked for someone else
///know what I'm talking about
 
2010-04-17 1:56:13 PM  
I hope he wins. I'd be pissed if I had to go to a program like that.
 
2010-04-17 1:59:00 PM  

Adman12: I agree with this guy. I'd be appalled if I was forced to attend a program where I was told that "a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity".

What a load of hooey.


But it's not religious because it's just a higher power, not necessarily God. Please forget about the fact that every meeting is opened with the Lord's Prayer and that the books contain bible verses...it's completely non-religious!
 
2010-04-17 2:02:16 PM  
It happens a lot. When I got a DUI the judge ordered me to attend AA meetings, all of which have a strong religious component. Also had to pay to attend "classes" where they jammed more 12 step bullshiat down our throats.
Good for this guy and good on him for sticking up for himself.
 
2010-04-17 2:04:48 PM  
Things for which there is no empirical evidence must at least have a internally consistent description to possibly exist. God has neither.

God does not exist.
 
2010-04-17 2:09:52 PM  
Let me be the first in the thread to say that Christians are a persecuted group in the US.

/It's complete horse shiate of course, I just wanted to be the first to say it. I'm sure I won't be the last.
 
2010-04-17 2:10:05 PM  

dudemanbro: It happens a lot. When I got a DUI the judge ordered me to attend AA meetings, all of which have a strong religious component. Also had to pay to attend "classes" where they jammed more 12 step bullshiat down our throats.
Good for this guy and good on him for sticking up for himself.


The sad thing is that this is the first time I've heard of one of these lawsuits actually go this way. I've seen at least a dozen stories on them over the years and every single time, they pull the "higher power doesn't mean God" argument out of their ass.
 
2010-04-17 2:15:41 PM  

FloydA: Let me be the first in the thread to say that Christians are a persecuted group in the US.

/It's complete horse shiate of course, I just wanted to be the first to say it. I'm sure I won't be the last.


You know, I don't even know how they could make that argument from this. It's not persecuting anyone, it's not saying anyone can't do anything. It's just saying they can't FORCE someone else to do something.
 
2010-04-17 2:18:53 PM  

Abstruse:

You know, I don't even know how they could make that argument from this.


Yeah you're absolutely right, but we both know that they will.
 
2010-04-17 2:43:58 PM  
Man, I would hate to have to serve double-time in prison, only to be sent back.
 
2010-04-17 2:53:04 PM  
Swapping one addiction for another is not a cure for anything.
 
2010-04-17 2:53:49 PM  
That's extremely f*cked up. And those who defend AA for not being outright religious but only "referencing a higher power," would likely complain if they were forced by law to attend Narconon, for example.
 
2010-04-17 3:02:32 PM  
Ruling in favor of an atheist? I thought Burrell was supported by the ministers...
 
2010-04-17 3:12:19 PM  
myspace.roflposters.comView Full Size
 
2010-04-17 3:22:17 PM  
Penn & Teller have a very thoughtful episode on 12 step bullshiat.
 
2010-04-17 3:29:53 PM  
chubbybrain.comView Full Size


My higher power
 
2010-04-17 4:19:56 PM  

Adman12: I agree with this guy. I'd be appalled if I was forced to attend a program where I was told that "a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity".

What a load of hooey.


hooey?
yah, I agree with this guy completely.
AA is filled with a bunch of religious wackjobs.
it is one thing if you choose to join them
it is another thing if the state forces you

HAHAHAHAH
pay for him, more ass reaming for the people of california
 
2010-04-17 4:22:04 PM  

dahmers love zombie: He should have sued over being placed in a drug treatment program that doesn't work (new window).

/yeah, I know...works for some people, saved some people, blah blah blah.
//you should use what works for you, not be ordered into something that worked for someone else
///know what I'm talking about


came here to add THIS
I love that the AA recidivism rates are the same as quitting on your own.
/lawl
//BUT IT WORKS
///anecdotal evidence is not evidence at all
 
2010-04-17 4:33:00 PM  
Now, the 41-year-old Redding computer technician has won a ruling from a Sacramento federal judge against the state and stands to collect damages for having his constitutional rights violated.

Once he collects damages he is going to go out and get soooooo high.
 
2010-04-17 5:47:26 PM  
"The judge's ruling can't give me back my lost freedom, but it begins to restore my faith in our judicial system."

Oh, NOW you have faith...
 
2010-04-17 5:48:52 PM  
Most people cannot comprehend the difference between religion and spirituality. In fact, almost every reply in this thread prior to mine seems to assume they are the same thing.

Spirituality is your personal relationship with whatever higher power you choose to believe in. That's it.

Religion is man's attempts to create standardized rules and definitions for spirituality, and to use those rules to control others. Religion is a load of crap.

That said, I do have my own beliefs but I'm not discussing them here. They are mine, not anybody else's and talking about them would only invite criticism of my spirituality because it may not match your spirituality.

And I owe my life to AA. Coming up on 10 years sober and I'd have been dead a long time ago otherwise.
 
2010-04-17 5:49:03 PM  

namatad: dahmers love zombie: He should have sued over being placed in a drug treatment program that doesn't work (new window).

/yeah, I know...works for some people, saved some people, blah blah blah.
//you should use what works for you, not be ordered into something that worked for someone else
///know what I'm talking about

came here to add THIS
I love that the AA recidivism rates are the same as quitting on your own.
/lawl
//BUT IT WORKS
///anecdotal evidence is not evidence at all


THIS. fark AA and AA'ers.
 
2010-04-17 5:50:37 PM  
God doesn't believe in me.
 
2010-04-17 5:50:54 PM  
All the little ways that religion can poison a society. Christianity is especially bad, simply because of it's requirement that it's not good enough that you be saved, you have to try as hard as you can to save people who don't want anything to do with you.
 
2010-04-17 5:51:26 PM  
Even I'M on this guys side, and I'm a Christian. This guy's rights were violated and the parole officer needs to be punished. After reading the article, it seems as if the guy was just trying to spark some debate, not being all douchey like some atheists. One thing that I can't stand is when people try to force their beliefs on others, like the parole officer did, or like some Christians and atheists do. Let people believe how they want without trying to bully them into agreeing with your point of view.
 
2010-04-17 5:52:10 PM  

zepplinrules: "The judge's ruling can't give me back my lost freedom, but it begins to restore my faith in our judicial system."

Oh, NOW you have faith...


ZING!
 
2010-04-17 5:52:23 PM  
I note that the Christians on Fark are oddly silent on this one. Speak up, Christers, we can't hear you over the sound of how ridiculously awful this is.

/Your God is a fairy-tale. Stop living MY life by YOUR book.
 
2010-04-17 5:53:14 PM  
Do you know how much money God makes on bible sales alone?
 
2010-04-17 5:56:37 PM  
images.starcraftmazter.netView Full Size
 
2010-04-17 5:57:11 PM  

skwerl: Spirituality is your personal relationship with whatever higher power you choose to believe in. That's it.


lawl, I see whut u did thar
 
2010-04-17 5:58:01 PM  
Sounds like a non-violent offender who never should have gone to jail.
 
2010-04-17 5:59:16 PM  

TSD


We'll have us a little book barbecue in the yard. They'll see the flames for miles. We'll dance around it like wild Injuns! You understand me? Catching my drift?... Or am I being obtuse?


Salvation lay within.
 
2010-04-17 5:59:35 PM  

crazyeddie: I note that the Christians on Fark are oddly silent on this one. Speak up, Christers, we can't hear you over the sound of how ridiculously awful this is.

/Your God is a fairy-tale. Stop living MY life by YOUR book.


*see 2 posts above yours and go pour yourself a glass of fail
 
2010-04-17 6:01:46 PM  

skwerl: Most people cannot comprehend the difference between religion and spirituality. In fact, almost every reply in this thread prior to mine seems to assume they are the same thing.

Spirituality is your personal relationship with whatever higher power you choose to believe in. That's it.

Religion is man's attempts to create standardized rules and definitions for spirituality, and to use those rules to control others. Religion is a load of crap.

That said, I do have my own beliefs but I'm not discussing them here. They are mine, not anybody else's and talking about them would only invite criticism of my spirituality because it may not match your spirituality.

And I owe my life to AA. Coming up on 10 years sober and I'd have been dead a long time ago otherwise.


And atheists have the right to not be spiritual, and to not have something they don't believe in shoved down their throat by the law.
 
2010-04-17 6:02:23 PM  

skwerl: Most people cannot comprehend the difference between religion and spirituality. In fact, almost every reply in this thread prior to mine seems to assume they are the same thing.

Spirituality is your personal relationship with whatever higher power you choose to believe in. That's it.

Religion is man's attempts to create standardized rules and definitions for spirituality, and to use those rules to control others. Religion is a load of crap.

That said, I do have my own beliefs but I'm not discussing them here. They are mine, not anybody else's and talking about them would only invite criticism of my spirituality because it may not match your spirituality.

And I owe my life to AA. Coming up on 10 years sober and I'd have been dead a long time ago otherwise.


I have no interest in seeking spirituality. It is tied to religion in all cases, and I have rights to avoid anything to do with it, even under court order.
 
2010-04-17 6:05:18 PM  
So wait, they wanted this ex-drug user to turn to christianity and learn to molest deaf boys like the church teaches? Wouldnt that get him more time in jail? Oh wait, the Pope will just say he needs to sit in a box for 5 minutes describing his fun to another child molesting priest and it is done with.
 
2010-04-17 6:07:23 PM  
this guy deserves the hero tag for fighting it in court. it's too easy to just be silent.
 
2010-04-17 6:07:31 PM  

the_chief: Do you know how much money God makes on bible sales alone?


Too bad he can't take it with him. But I'll give him props for sending his son back to try and collect (or at least to drive up sales).
 
2010-04-17 6:07:46 PM  
AA?
I'm no quitter!
 
2010-04-17 6:08:27 PM  

thirdful: So wait, they wanted this ex-drug user to turn to christianity and learn to molest deaf boys like the church teaches? Wouldnt that get him more time in jail? Oh wait, the Pope will just say he needs to sit in a box for 5 minutes describing his fun to another child molesting priest and it is done with.


Yeah, that's exactly what the article said. Wow, you're soooo funny. So original. I wish I were like you.
 
2010-04-17 6:11:57 PM  

Talon: But but but... they don't make reference to a specific God, and more often than not refer to a "higher power" so clearly this isn't establishing a religion, right, since no specific religion is referred to, right?

So I look forward to seeing the 'tards who believe that (and who so strongly disagreed to the "national prayer day" ruling) come in and make the case as to why the state didn't really breech the establishment clause.


Good job. You've poisoned the well so thoroughly we're all going to die of dehydration.
 
2010-04-17 6:12:50 PM  

namatad: I love that the AA recidivism rates are the same as quitting on your own.


It does help people. My dad would've never gotten sober if it weren't for AA because of the faith aspect and the support system built in. It would NOT work for me because I'm an atheist and a misanthrope. It doesn't work for about 60% of the people who use it.

The question isn't how you want to get sober...it's whether you really and truly WANT to get sober. If you do, you're going to gravitate to whatever system fits your personality best and you've got a better chance of succeeding. If you don't want to get sober, nothing's going to help you.

The problem isn't AA on its own...it's that it's used to exclusion of all other programs in criminal sentencings and parole hearings.
 
2010-04-17 6:13:21 PM  

strukt99: Yeah, that's exactly what the article said. Wow, you're soooo funny. So original. I wish I were like you.


What's so funny about molesting children you sick bastard. damn freaks on fark, they let just about anyone post these days.
 
2010-04-17 6:14:27 PM  
Had a friend who just went through rehab and he called me a couple times while he was there. He was about to lose his shiat or walk out over the blatant push of Christianity in the place. The rehab center was a county run program, with almost everyone in there on a court order (my friend actually went on his own accord). It's complete bs and a money grab by the people who run these places.

/if the 12-step program works for you, great!
//don't assume it works for everyone, because quite clearly it does not.
 
2010-04-17 6:19:12 PM  
I agree with the guy. However I normally find that people are more trying to convince me there is no God, than others are to convince me there is.

I've found in my journeys that the person with the biggest complaints, are normally covering up for their own doubts.

I believe in God, and I believe Jesus was/is a model to vamp my life around. The guy was a pimp daddy yo. Made booze, fed a ton of folks with the munchies, and even ran a 'ring/gang' of sorts.

Once he told one of his homies to go back to the farm they passed, and get an ass. If the owner complains, tell him it's for the Lord, and take it.

Jesus rode that ass into town, and the crowd went nuts. The cops told 'em to tone it down, and the response was close to.

"If you quiet our voices, our followers will answer with stones."

Pimp daddy yo. No shynit.
 
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