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(Liverpool Daily Post)   Think atheists don't proselytize? Another myth busted   (liverpooldailypost.co.uk) divider line
    More: Obvious, Liverpool, John Lennon, religious icons, new atheists, Multi 2 diamonds, Qur, freedom of speech, atheists  
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18133 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Mar 2010 at 3:06 AM (10 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



719 Comments     (+0 »)
 
 
2010-03-02 10:22:33 PM  
One atheist proselytized. We aren't all directed to by an ancient book. subby fail.
 
2010-03-02 10:33:24 PM  
This might be a really brilliant headline. Or Subby is a complete idiot.

I'm gonna throw out a +1
 
2010-03-02 10:34:03 PM  
Oh please, subby. I can't take public transportation without being proselytized to at least once, and I get a couple of doorknockers every weekend. You want to tell me that one douchebag atheist leaving a few pictures in an airport is equivalent to the hundreds of douchebag Christians who leave Chick tracts on bus seats, scream into megaphones outside subway stations, and wake me up on Saturday and Sunday mornings?

Here's a clue-by-four upside your head: It's news when atheists proselytize because it's incredibly rare. It's not news when Christians do it because it's depressingly common.
 
2010-03-02 10:35:23 PM  
Oh, and to the dipshiats who are complaining about our proselytizing friend here? Welcome to my world. Now STFU; as I recognized long ago, free speech gives you the freedom to be an asshole.
 
2010-03-02 10:41:17 PM  
I kind of agree with the proselytizing "douchebag" here. It's kind of insulting to John Lennon's memory to have a prayer room in an airport named after him.

/Imagine
 
2010-03-02 10:44:42 PM  

HeartBurnKid: I get a couple of doorknockers every weekend.


Is this for real? This has never happened to me ever. Is this just a regional thing? Are the people of New Jersey too far gone to be saved?
 
2010-03-02 10:45:48 PM  
Just how stupid is subby? "Another myth busted"?
Both of the guys from MythBusters are atheists.

Derp.
 
2010-03-02 10:46:50 PM  

JerseyTim: Are the people of New Jersey too far gone to be saved?


I was under the impression that once you went to Hell, there was no coming back.
 
2010-03-02 11:51:54 PM  

JerseyTim: HeartBurnKid: I get a couple of doorknockers every weekend.

Is this for real? This has never happened to me ever. Is this just a regional thing? Are the people of New Jersey too far gone to be saved?


It's weird, but yes. When I lived in NJ I'd occasionally see the Mormon acne brigade on bicycles but no one ever approached me. In TN, CA and WA it's been a steady stream of Mormons, JW's and every other cockamamie god-botherer knocking on my door, bugging me in the street and dropping leaflets everywhere. So far, not one single atheist has ever even broached the subject of atheism with me.

I'm an atheist myself, but I don't bring it up. When people ask, I just say I'm "not religious". This helps tamp down the insta-proselytization whenever some dimbulb bible-basher hears the "A" word. If I'm at a party or social gathering, I just avoid religious talk. It's boring and stupid and ruins the evening. Instead, I like to talk about movies, music, farts and hot chicks.
 
2010-03-03 12:00:38 AM  
Both sides are bad, so vote Christian.
 
2010-03-03 12:20:00 AM  
This guy's a douche, but at least it sounds like he was trying to appeal to some dark sense of humor to get people to see things his way.

As opposed to the insulting Chick tracts, Bible verses, and pamphlets you can get from religious folks. Those are miles more offensive than anything this guy made.
 
2010-03-03 12:32:24 AM  
I couldn't find this guy's website. :(
 
2010-03-03 12:57:38 AM  
 
2010-03-03 1:08:04 AM  
1.) The guy in TFA is a complete asshat.

2.) There are far more religious proselytizers and there are atheist ones.

3.) #2 in no way diminishes #1.

/seriously, though, has ANYONE ever encountered an atheist street "preacher" or door-to-door atheist?
 
2010-03-03 1:10:37 AM  

mamoru: /seriously, though, has ANYONE ever encountered an atheist street "preacher" or door-to-door atheist?


I did the latter once on a drunken dare I was forced to live up to the next morning. The former, I kinda do in that I get in the faces of street preachers if I have nothing better to do at the time and end up just as loud as them.
 
2010-03-03 1:14:05 AM  
Who ever said that Atheists don't proselytize? or aren't allowed to?
 
2010-03-03 1:21:18 AM  
Alacritous: Who ever said that Atheists don't proselytize? or aren't allowed to?

The Head Atheist Overlord of the Regional Councils of Non Believers. We all have to obey his directives. It's in The Big Book.
 
2010-03-03 1:24:22 AM  
chemical_angel: The Head Atheist Overlord of the Regional Councils of Non Believers. We all have to obey his directives. It's in The Big Book.

Is that the pre-schism council or the post-schizm council? Popular Front or People's Front? Reformed or Orthodox?

Just trying to find out if you are a heretic or not.

/whatever happened to the Popular Front?
//He's over there.
///...
////SPLITTER!
 
2010-03-03 1:29:11 AM  
mamoru: chemical_angel: The Head Atheist Overlord of the Regional Councils of Non Believers. We all have to obey his directives. It's in The Big Book.

Is that the pre-schism council or the post-schizm council? Popular Front or People's Front? Reformed or Orthodox?

Just trying to find out if you are a heretic or not.

/whatever happened to the Popular Front?
//He's over there.
///...
////SPLITTER!


Your line of questioning has already outed YOU as the heretic. WE are the True, the Pure Atheists. YOU people ... Disgust me.
 
2010-03-03 1:33:20 AM  
This was a myth? Have you been living under a rock for 9 years Subby?
 
2010-03-03 1:34:17 AM  
chemical_angel: Your line of questioning has already outed YOU as the heretic. WE are the True, the Pure Atheists. YOU people ... Disgust me.

Whatever. It's obvious that WE are the ones following the one, TRUE lack-of-Faith! YOU people! I find your lack-of-Faith disturbing!
 
2010-03-03 1:36:37 AM  
I actually had a cousin, for whom I'd just gone out of my way to drive him to a store, ask me on the way home if I'd accepted Jebus as my Lord and Saviour. If we hadn't been only a couple of blocks from home, I might have pushed him out of the car. I have never, ever had an athiest ask me anything like that. Or come to my door with pamphlets. Or Come on tv while I am flipping channels asking for donations to spread the message of "there's no good noews today."

Fark you, asshatmitter. This isn't formal logic, where one counterexample proves a proposition is wrong. A tiny number of atheists talk about their lack of faith, even ridicule, belittle and besmirch believers. Many, many more believers -- and this includes nearly all faiths -- dismiss atheists loudly and frequently as deluded morans who will probably burn everlastingly.

I am sick of people insisting that one counterexample, or even a hundred, undermines the world-view of thousands, even millions of others. Go fark yourself, falsedichotomymitter, and don't wear a condom.
 
2010-03-03 1:39:20 AM  
Therefor atheism is a religion EXACTLY LIKE the Catholic Church, CofE, Islam, and the Southern Baptist Convention!
 
2010-03-03 1:39:42 AM  

chemical_angel: WE are the True, the Pure Atheists. YOU people ... Disgust me.


I'm a Nontheist Half Double Decaffeinated Half-Caf Humanist, thank you very much.
 
2010-03-03 1:40:05 AM  

mamoru: 1.) The guy in TFA is a complete asshat.
2.) There are far more religious proselytizers and there are atheist ones.
3.) #2 in no way diminishes #1.


Preach it baby.

i2.photobucket.comView Full Size



Also, I have the feeling this thread is gonna need this:

i2.photobucket.comView Full Size
 
2010-03-03 1:41:28 AM  

chemical_angel:
Your line of questioning has already outed YOU as the heretic.


You are the ones who are ball lickers. Were gonna fark your mothers while you watch and cry like little whiney bithces. Once we get to Hollywood and find those Miramax farks who are making that movie, were gonna make them eat our shiat, then shiat out our shiat and then eat their shiat thats made up of our shiat that we made em eat, and then all you motherfarks are next.
 
2010-03-03 1:43:29 AM  
ninjakirby: Preach it baby.

Wow. Guinness drinking squirrel is mesmerizing. :D
 
2010-03-03 1:45:14 AM  

mamoru: Whatever. It's obvious that WE are the ones following the one, TRUE lack-of-Faith! YOU people! I find your lack-of-Faith disturbing!


No joke, I had someone on a local google.group tell me "and you call yourself an atheist" because I corrected them on some theological point they were abusing.

It was an experience.
 
2010-03-03 1:51:35 AM  
ninjakirby: It was an experience.

Hah!

BROTHERS! THE GREAT ATHEIST SCHISM IS UPON US!! IT IS NOW TIME TO TAKE UP ARMS AND STRIKE DOWN THE NONerrr... non-non-believers? un-infidels? Wait. What the fark are we supposed to call them?

Ah, fark it.

Anyone up for a beer?
 
2010-03-03 1:58:16 AM  
My friend, may I have a moment of your time? I'd like to tell you about nothing...
 
2010-03-03 2:11:07 AM  
He sounds more like an antitheist...
 
2010-03-03 2:11:18 AM  

Theaetetus: chemical_angel:
Your line of questioning has already outed YOU as the heretic.

You are the ones who are ball lickers. Were gonna fark your mothers while you watch and cry like little whiney bithces. Once we get to Hollywood and find those Miramax farks who are making that movie, were gonna make them eat our shiat, then shiat out our shiat and then eat their shiat thats made up of our shiat that we made em eat, and then all you motherfarks are next.


I dismiss and ignore all of you splitters with the infinite contempt and disdain your negligibility has so pathetically earned.

/when I'm in charge, you'll ALL be TIED UP AND BURNED.
 
2010-03-03 3:01:07 AM  
BuckTurgidson: when I'm in charge, you'll ALL be TIED UP AND BURNED.

It clearly says right here in The Big Book that splitters are to be burned and then tied up. You may as well be a splitter yourself.
 
2010-03-03 3:05:17 AM  
ninjakirby: you call yourself an atheist

I've had experiences like that on a live journal group. It's usually from what I like to call "born again atheists" or the ones who seem to be doing it as a really angry, childish way to sort of get back at "Them".
 
2010-03-03 3:13:41 AM  
Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it.
 
2010-03-03 3:16:50 AM  
1. We'll have to wait until Hitchens and Dawkins are dead a couple hundred years. Then, people can write books about them, using only stories passed down by word of mouth. After which, insert another couple hundred years here, some politician(s) can pick and choose which stories to include in the BIG BOOK based on his current selfish political ambition.

2. Profit?
 
2010-03-03 3:16:56 AM  

WhoIsPraetorian: This might be a really brilliant headline. Or Subby is a complete idiot.

I'm gonna throw out a +1


Goal was to get a greenlight
got a greenlight
pissed off lots of atheists, who responded with moral relativism

Id call that a +2 at least

// Im an atheist, not a moral relativist
 
2010-03-03 3:17:51 AM  

AeAe: Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it.


42

/does everything need an explanation, just to be?
 
2010-03-03 3:18:02 AM  

AeAe: Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it.


Do theists have an answer to why God exists? I'm guessing the answer is pessimistic "no, we can never answer that because there's always a 'what happened before that?'" to an optimistic "not yet"?
 
2010-03-03 3:18:54 AM  
Neville Biddle, prosecuting, said the images were "grossly abusive".

I wonder how Mr. Neville would feel if someone had an illustrated Holy Bible...

also, if these images are "grossly abusive", stay the fark off the internets.
 
2010-03-03 3:20:22 AM  

AeAe: Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it.


Science has a nice head start on this answer. Rest assured though that this gas-ball planet likely wasn't magically formed in seven days.
 
2010-03-03 3:20:25 AM  

Klingon Penis: chemical_angel: WE are the True, the Pure Atheists. YOU people ... Disgust me.

I'm a Nontheist Half Double Decaffeinated Half-Caf Humanist, thank you very much.


Splitter!
 
2010-03-03 3:20:48 AM  

mamoru:
/seriously, though, has ANYONE ever encountered an atheist street "preacher" or door-to-door atheist?


Absolutely.

...just on the street I travel most...the 'net.

Both sides, usually the same names, go back and forth in threads just like this one. Both post what they feel are compelling statements backing their position, trying to change the mind of "the opposition".

I avoid these threads, usually. Can't stand the extremists on either side. Preachy gits, all of 'em.
 
2010-03-03 3:22:48 AM  
Fu*k subby with the cross he rode in on.
 
2010-03-03 3:24:09 AM  
Damn, I didn't know I was supposed to be doing that. I'll try and keep up next time.
 
2010-03-03 3:25:26 AM  

divedeep: AeAe: Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it.

Science has a nice head start on this answer. Rest assured though that this gas-ball planet likely wasn't magically formed in seven days.


Not talking about Biblical/creationism story. And I'm somewhat familiar with the Big Bang theory - a lot of energy in a very small space exploding, right?
 
2010-03-03 3:26:04 AM  

Alacritous: Who ever said that Atheists don't proselytize? or aren't allowed to?


This. What a presumptuous, stupid headline.
 
2010-03-03 3:26:11 AM  
This article completely changes everything I have ever believed in. I suppose I should get myself to a church now - I can admit defeat.
 
2010-03-03 3:27:54 AM  
From the article:

Taylor, of Griffin Street, Salford, denies three counts of religiously aggravated intentional harassment, alarm or distress.

Can someone please explain UK law?
 
2010-03-03 3:28:41 AM  
I'll just go down the list here:

1. Subby is a moron and likely trolling.
2. One douchebag vandalized some stuff.
3. Giving a prayer room in John Lennon Airport is almost ironic.
 
2010-03-03 3:29:54 AM  

AeAe: Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it.


Is that a tenet of nontheism?
 
2010-03-03 3:30:49 AM  

memebot_of_doom: Can someone please explain UK law?


wiki can:
(1) A person is guilty of an offence if, with intent to cause a person harassment, alarm or distress, he:
(a) uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or
(b) displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting

thereby causing that or another person harassment, alarm or distress.
(2) An offence under this section may be committed in a public or a private place, except that no offence is committed where the words or behaviour are used, or the writing, sign or other visible representation is displayed, by a person inside a dwelling and the person who is harassed, alarmed or distressed is also inside that or another dwelling.
(3) It is a defence for the accused to prove:

(a) that he was inside a dwelling and had no reason to believe that the words or behaviour used, or the writing, sign or other visible representation displayed, would be heard or seen by a person outside that or any other dwelling, or
(b) that his conduct was reasonable.
 
2010-03-03 3:30:59 AM  
WFern: 3. Giving a prayer room in John Lennon Airport is almost ironic.

Alanis Morissette spoons ironic or hipster douche with a mustache tattoo on their finger ironic?
 
2010-03-03 3:31:06 AM  

AeAe: Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it.


Yes. We atheists are pretty smart. Also, we all agree on everything.
 
2010-03-03 3:31:11 AM  
img9.imageshack.usView Full Size


i629.photobucket.comView Full Size


I think The Coen brothers were trying to make a point.

/everybody's crazy
 
2010-03-03 3:31:47 AM  

AeAe: Honest question.. Do Christians have an explanation for why God exists?


Fixed.

At least atheism doesn't hold any pretension on the matter. We don't know and don't pretend to. It's arrogant to assume you know the reason for the existence of the universe, and the fact that you don't realize that says a lot about you.
 
2010-03-03 3:32:14 AM  

phrawgh: AeAe: Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it.

42

/does everything need an explanation, just to be?


Exactly. Facts simply ARE, self demonstrating, without need of explanation. Why do you, AeAe, need an "explanation" for existence? Or perhaps the question is, why do you think that an explanation is necessary? But I'll say this: the "explanation" that "God did it" is no explanation at all. It has no basis in fact or logic. It's a completely made-up "explanation." You're welcome to it if it helps you sleep at night, but if you insist on talking about it to people who don't agree, expect a rebuttal.

/and also, 42
//as good an answer as any
 
2010-03-03 3:32:25 AM  
fark this shiat. Priests raping kids, Mooslims blowing up people, and these farkbrains have the gall to actually be offended by farking cartoons.

Well actually I'm religious too. Our sacred symbol is a scene that depicts Jesus getting farked in the ass by the Virgin Mary wearing a strapon while blowing a pig that looks like Mohammed.

How ya like that?
 
2010-03-03 3:32:45 AM  

EL_FABREZ: AeAe: Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it.

Is that a tenet of nontheism?


I don't know, that's why I'm asking.
 
2010-03-03 3:33:14 AM  
AeAe: "Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it."

Pardon the copypasta, but I get tired of answering this over and over:

News that there had been a 'big bang' was initially encouraging to Christians; It was discovered by a priest named George LeMaitre, and when he presented his discovery to the pope, he became eager to proclaim it scientific proof of the veracity of the Genesis account. LeMaitre wisely cautioned him against this. It is true that Genesis speaks of God creating light. But while the big bang was likely accompanied by a great deal of light, that is the only, tenuous commonality. Genesis also speaks of the heavens being divided from the Earth by God "separating the waters", and everything above the "firmament" (the dome that made up our sky, to which stars were physically attached) was water as well, with trap doors opening every so often to allow water to fall through (the Talmudic explanation for rain.) Seizing upon this one likeness and ignoring all of the other contradictions is a perfect example of confirmation bias. It's the same sort of thinking that makes people focus only on the few vague predictions that television psychics get right, while ignoring the countless failed predictions they'd made before.

LeMaitre knew that it was better not to put all of Christianity's eggs in one basket, as a great many new discoveries were being announced at the time and if his theory were to be overturned or if some new detail came to light that rendered natural causation more likely, it would be disastrous for the Pope. LeMaitre was right to be cautious. The advent of large scale colliders like the Tevatron and LHC provided new insights into the nature of matter, (It's actually distorted vacuum energy) revised its relationship with the law of conservation (both matter and energy could have come into existence naturally without violating that law, as provided that they're "balanced out" by negative gravitational energy, the total energy state of the universe would remain zero....and in fact that's simple to confirm) and produced new evidence (the COBE/WMAP probes' maps of the lingering microwave background radiation from the big bang, observed instances of particle pair separation both in simulations of the big bang and in actual collider experiments) that the universe really did emerge from nothing by way of particle pair separation catalyzed by natural, random fluctuations in vacuum energy. (See "The Free Lunch That Made the Universe", "Something from Nothing a Quantum Possibility", and "A Universe From Nothing".)
 
2010-03-03 3:33:48 AM  
ultraholland:
Neville Biddle, prosecuting, said the images were "grossly abusive".

I wonder how Mr. Neville would feel if someone had an illustrated Holy Bible...


bookpeopleblog.files.wordpress.comView Full Size


And yep, some religious folks see it as being offensive*, despite it containing only the contents of the Book of Genesis, as pictures.

* and to their credit, others like it
 
2010-03-03 3:34:39 AM  

UsikFark: I think The Coen brothers were trying to make a point.

/everybody's crazy


I sincerely hope you don't think nihilism is the same as atheism.
 
2010-03-03 3:37:58 AM  
hey subby, at least atheists only distribute tracts in airports, not use them as missile launching sites
 
2010-03-03 3:38:32 AM  

Dubai Vol: phrawgh: AeAe: Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it.

42

/does everything need an explanation, just to be?

Exactly. Facts simply ARE, self demonstrating, without need of explanation. Why do you, AeAe, need an "explanation" for existence? Or perhaps the question is, why do you think that an explanation is necessary? But I'll say this: the "explanation" that "God did it" is no explanation at all. It has no basis in fact or logic. It's a completely made-up "explanation." You're welcome to it if it helps you sleep at night, but if you insist on talking about it to people who don't agree, expect a rebuttal.

/and also, 42
//as good an answer as any


I had a response to phrawgh answer, but it didn't post for some reason - which was - that it was a good point.

The question I had, which I guess you folks decided to read into, was if atheists have an explanation for existence - the answer appears to be "no"... and that's a fine enough answer.
 
2010-03-03 3:39:12 AM  
At least the atheists aren't saying you'll go to hell if you don't listen to them, or calling your ways sinful. Usually.
 
2010-03-03 3:39:19 AM  
AeAe: "The question I had, which I guess you folks decided to read into, was if atheists have an explanation for existence - the answer appears to be "no"... and that's a fine enough answer."

You seem to have missed my post.
 
2010-03-03 3:39:51 AM  
f*ck this guy.

/mainly because John Lennon was an asshole. and a bad musician. but mainly an asshole.
 
2010-03-03 3:40:02 AM  

Kublai Khan: time


You're a nihilist?

AeAe: Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it.


Not a full one, no. We don't, however, feel the need to fill the gaps in our knowledge with an equally unexplained man in the sky.
 
2010-03-03 3:41:11 AM  

AeAe: The question I had, which I guess you folks decided to read into, was if atheists have an explanation for existence - the answer appears to be "no"... and that's a fine enough answer.


I wouldn't say it's exactly a "no". There's people with the attitude "who cares", there's "no", and there's others who are "still looking for it". In addition, this hasn't so much to do with (a)theism but to do with scientific discovery and what different people feel warrants investigation.
 
2010-03-03 3:41:36 AM  
To paraphrase christian fundies,

This man is NOT a real atheist!
 
2010-03-03 3:42:35 AM  

AeAe: Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist


do christians have an explanation for why god exists ?
why the defined requirement for creation excludes a creator's need for creation ?
it just is ?
 
2010-03-03 3:42:54 AM  

AeAe: Dubai Vol: phrawgh: AeAe: Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it.

42

/does everything need an explanation, just to be?

Exactly. Facts simply ARE, self demonstrating, without need of explanation. Why do you, AeAe, need an "explanation" for existence? Or perhaps the question is, why do you think that an explanation is necessary? But I'll say this: the "explanation" that "God did it" is no explanation at all. It has no basis in fact or logic. It's a completely made-up "explanation." You're welcome to it if it helps you sleep at night, but if you insist on talking about it to people who don't agree, expect a rebuttal.

/and also, 42
//as good an answer as any

I had a response to phrawgh answer, but it didn't post for some reason - which was - that it was a good point.

The question I had, which I guess you folks decided to read into, was if atheists have an explanation for existence - the answer appears to be "no"... and that's a fine enough answer.


I guess one point I might make is those that require an explanation usually do so because of their overinflated self worth and/or self-importance.

But thanks. I can't help but feel you are attempting to make a point... ;)
 
2010-03-03 3:43:27 AM  

AeAe: Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it.


Just because we (the human race) do not understand something (such as not knowing how the world/universe came into existence) does not automatically mean that it has to be of divine origin.
 
2010-03-03 3:43:27 AM  
MexicanNerd: "Not a full one, no."

We do however have an increasingly well supported theory as to what the causal mechanism of the big bang was, and it's frustrating seeing Farkers not up to speed on their particle physics shrugging and saying science hasn't got a clue.

It may be in its infancy relative to more firmly established theories, but it's on far more solid ground than theological alternatives.
 
2010-03-03 3:43:47 AM  

AeAe: The question I had, which I guess you folks decided to read into, was if atheists have an explanation for existence - the answer appears to be "no"... and that's a fine enough answer.


Anyone who says "yes" is monumentally arrogant in that regard. I'm not saying that to be mean. I'm saying it as a simple truth.
 
2010-03-03 3:44:19 AM  
AeAe: Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it.

No. Perhaps the better question is "how" we exist. People have some good ideas, but nothing conclusive. The problem with "why" is that, to me, it indicates a purpose or intent.
 
2010-03-03 3:44:27 AM  

HeartBurnKid: Oh please, subby. I can't take public transportation without being proselytized to at least once, and I get a couple of doorknockers every weekend. You want to tell me that one douchebag atheist leaving a few pictures in an airport is equivalent to the hundreds of douchebag Christians who leave Chick tracts on bus seats, scream into megaphones outside subway stations, and wake me up on Saturday and Sunday mornings?

Here's a clue-by-four upside your head: It's news when atheists proselytize because it's incredibly rare. It's not news when Christians do it because it's depressingly common.


Let me know if you find any of the Dungeons & Dragons Chick Tracts! They are absolutely hilarious!
 
2010-03-03 3:45:21 AM  

mandingueiro: f*ck this guy.

/mainly because John Lennon was an asshole. and a bad musician. but mainly an asshole.


Anal desires are ok
but necrophiliac anal desires should usually be ... hotlinked to cold images
 
2010-03-03 3:45:37 AM  
I work nightshift and I'm sick to the back teeth of atheists ringing my doorbell during the day to talk about nothing.
 
2010-03-03 3:49:50 AM  
WFern: "Anyone who says "yes" is monumentally arrogant in that regard. I'm not saying that to be mean. I'm saying it as a simple truth."

Heh, I suppose you mean me. But I'd argue we know more about the cause of the big bang than you're aware of. Check out the links in this post.

There was a time when it was unthinkable that we'd ever understand the origin of life on Earth, or what the sun is made of (one of my favorite examples as it was asserted to be a philosophical unknowable in a compilation published on the exact day that mass spectrometry was first used to determine the sun's composition) so, in light of what we've discovered already about the big bang and the rate at which new discoveries are being made, I don't think it arrogant to suggest that we already understand to some extent "why we exist" and that we'll soon understand that as thoroughly as we presently understand evolution.
 
2010-03-03 3:51:17 AM  
I guess both sides are bad

so vote republican
 
2010-03-03 3:51:56 AM  
I do have to ask why some of you don't move. I've maybe had Jehovah Witnesses come to my door less than 10 times in my life... not once in the last 10 years. Never seen a "Chick Tract" and the closest thing I've had to someone trying to "save" me was some weird guy at a bar in San Diego asking if I wanted to join him and his friends at his church at 10:30pm on a Saturday night.

/ Vancouver
// since moved
img534.imageshack.usView Full Size

/// close to 50% ain't bad
 
2010-03-03 3:55:39 AM  
Curious question: are cats mentioned in the Bible?

That said, retards exist. Beyond that, people who've had Christian "experiences." People who never had the chance to think otherwise. Also, morons who worry. One level up are people who lie to other people about Christ and profit--hugely.
 
2010-03-03 3:56:57 AM  

ultraholland: AeAe: Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it.

No. Perhaps the better question is "how" we exist. People have some good ideas, but nothing conclusive. The problem with "why" is that, to me, it indicates a purpose or intent.


An explanation how we exist? I'm not sure I get you.. doesn't the evolutionary theory explain the "how"?

But maybe you're dialing it back to the big bang, perhaps?
 
2010-03-03 3:58:09 AM  
So turn the other cheek.
 
2010-03-03 4:00:30 AM  

Klingon Penis: Just how stupid is subby? "Another myth busted"?
Both of the guys from MythBusters are atheists.

Derp.


That they're atheists doesn't necessarily mean they would approve of proselytizing.
 
2010-03-03 4:01:19 AM  
AeAe: "But maybe you're dialing it back to the big bang, perhaps?"

Am I just invisible to you, or what? I gave you a thorough answer some ways back.
 
2010-03-03 4:04:59 AM  
This is by far the dumbest thread about atheism I've read on Fark for at least the last two or three weeks.
 
2010-03-03 4:05:42 AM  

Zamboro: AeAe: "But maybe you're dialing it back to the big bang, perhaps?"

Am I just invisible to you, or what? I gave you a thorough answer some ways back.


It's like you're the kid in class who is frantically waving his hand desperately trying to get the teacher to call on you, but being ignored over and over because everyone knows you have the answer and it's time for someone else to get called on.

/run on sentence?
 
2010-03-03 4:06:39 AM  
I think he was asking "why" not "how." Obviously religion doesn't have all the answers, (or any depending on who you ask), but how is not why.
 
2010-03-03 4:07:16 AM  

Zamboro: AeAe: "But maybe you're dialing it back to the big bang, perhaps?"

Am I just invisible to you, or what? I gave you a thorough answer some ways back.


I saw that, thanks for your post. That stuff is mostly over my head, but if I'm getting what I think you're saying - that the Big Bang literally occurred from nothing - why isn't this making as big a splash in the news that I think it should be? This should be in the cover of Time and Newsweek (unless it actually was and I missed it).
 
2010-03-03 4:07:16 AM  
Baryogenesis: "It's like you're the kid in class who is frantically waving his hand desperately trying to get the teacher to call on you, but being ignored over and over because everyone knows you have the answer and it's time for someone else to get called on."

......Did we attend the same schools or something? Do I know you? That's eerie.
 
2010-03-03 4:08:07 AM  
So based on the headline's interpretation of the article I can conclude that "Christians" and other theists are terrorists and murderers as well as con-artists. Because you know, some of them are.

Oh, btw just for the record I am an Atheist who "proselytizes". I don't have leaflets or go door-to-door but if it comes up I will indeed use what tools I have to attempt to sway people away from wasting time on making wishes or thinking about invisible ghosts and all powerful spirits.
 
2010-03-03 4:08:51 AM  

Salsify: I think he was asking "why" not "how." Obviously religion doesn't have all the answers, (or any depending on who you ask), but how is not why.


Why assumes intent and everything we know about the universe is better explained without intent. Ultimately, I think that means how and why are equivalent because there is no intent to discover.
 
2010-03-03 4:10:29 AM  
Zamboro: Am I just invisible to you, or what?

this must sting after not getting an e-card for Valentine's Day
 
2010-03-03 4:10:51 AM  

Zamboro: Heh, I suppose you mean me. But I'd argue we know more about the cause of the big bang than you're aware of. Check out the links in this post.

There was a time when it was unthinkable that we'd ever understand the origin of life on Earth, or what the sun is made of (one of my favorite examples as it was asserted to be a philosophical unknowable in a compilation published on the exact day that mass spectrometry was first used to determine the sun's composition) so, in light of what we've discovered already about the big bang and the rate at which new discoveries are being made, I don't think it arrogant to suggest that we already understand to some extent "why we exist" and that we'll soon understand that as thoroughly as we presently understand evolution.


No, not all. I apologize if I gave that impression, and perhaps you misunderstand my point.

The Big Bang is all well and good (and fascinating) but it doesn't explain existence in the sense I mean. The modern universe and life, sure, but the issue of existence (what caused the Big Bang, and what caused that, and that, etc) is something else entirely. No human being will likely ever know where it all started, if there is even a starting point.
 
2010-03-03 4:12:02 AM  

Gaylord Fister: fark this shiat. Priests raping kids, Mooslims blowing up people, and these farkbrains have the gall to actually be offended by farking cartoons.

Well actually I'm religious too. Our sacred symbol is a scene that depicts Jesus getting farked in the ass by the Virgin Mary wearing a strapon while blowing a pig that looks like Mohammed.

How ya like that?


Fit pedophilia and...furries, for spice of individuality in there, and you'll have yourself a full fledged religion. Maybe japanese tentacles too. And a crazed german woman, banging a cowbell furiously behind them.


This will be a work of art.
 
2010-03-03 4:12:28 AM  

jingks: wiki can:
(1) A person is guilty of an offence if, with intent to cause a person harassment, alarm or distress, he:
(a) uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or


OK that's interesting - but it seems over-the-top to drag someone into court for an obnoxious prank.
 
2010-03-03 4:13:39 AM  

AeAe: An explanation how we exist? I'm not sure I get you.. doesn't the evolutionary theory explain the "how"?


"Why" is a question of teleology, of purpose. Asking "why" the universe exists presupposes there is a purpose to existence. In short, without an external validation of the questions premise it's simply a flawed question with no answer. Evolution explains how we (humans and other living things) exists, just as the Big Bang is our best explanation for how we (the universe and everything) exists.

Ask why things are the way they are all you want, everyone does. Its what religions have done for millennia, and they're no closer to an answer now than when we first drew animal spirits on rocks.

To specifically answer your question: Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist?

"No, and neither do you."
 
2010-03-03 4:13:56 AM  
MILITANT


Might as well have stuck an exclamation point on it and used a gun as the article's picture. Probably get your scare tactics to work better on those who get scared by MILITANT atheists.
 
2010-03-03 4:14:12 AM  
It could be that insulting/threatening people may not be the best way to get them to agree with your views.
 
2010-03-03 4:14:46 AM  
onegoodmove.orgView Full Size
 
2010-03-03 4:15:09 AM  

Zamboro: MexicanNerd: "Not a full one, no."

We do however have an increasingly well supported theory as to what the causal mechanism of the big bang was, and it's frustrating seeing Farkers not up to speed on their particle physics shrugging and saying science hasn't got a clue.

It may be in its infancy relative to more firmly established theories, but it's on far more solid ground than theological alternatives.


I did say it wasn't full. I'll readily agree that science has made great advances in this area. Of particular interest to me is the plausible hypothesis that the mystery of the universe's constants having precise values can be explained by the topography of the dimensions outlined in string theory. It's fascinating stuff.

However, no matter how deep we dig, we'll never have a full understanding. We must admit to that and realize that there doesn't need to be a God to fill in the unknown.
 
2010-03-03 4:16:09 AM  
Religion sucks.

Atheism is retarded.

We need something really cool.
 
2010-03-03 4:16:52 AM  
"stop him! he's using words and images in a comedic manner to prove how much of a sham we are!"

every group has their stereotypes - just because you believe in a sky wizard gives you no upper hand in defending the stupid crap your group does *cough* murdering doctors, poisoning children *cough*

if people are this bent out of shape over some cartoons and words -- your foundation of religion is probably already on shaky ground to begin with. The guy drawing the pictures just got fuel added to his fire because he know's he struck a chord on the bible beaters game.
 
2010-03-03 4:17:16 AM  
AeAe: "I saw that, thanks for your post. That stuff is mostly over my head, but if I'm getting what I think you're saying - that the Big Bang literally occurred from nothing - why isn't this making as big a splash in the news that I think it should be? This should be in the cover of Time and Newsweek (unless it actually was and I missed it)."

Mainly because it's pretty new. The nobel prize awarded for the COBE/WMAP data on the background radiation from the big bang was awarded in 2005. And to the best of my knowledge it's yet to be reconciled with the 'brane' collision theory (we've observed what is very likely the quantum phenomenon responsible for catalyzing big bang events. But we don't yet know whether that event created our own universe or one of two universes that created ours as a byproduct of their collision). It's still a very cutting edge area of research, announcing it as though it were as firmly proven as evolution would be dishonest. Even so, to have directly observed that phenomenon occurring and to have further confirmed the big bang by mapping the residual radiation is enormously significant. It's something we couldn't have conceived of a relatively short while ago.

By the by, if correct, it would mean that the philosophical concept of nothingness has no real life equivalent; that actual "nothingness" is a state in which random vacuum energy fluctuations occasionally 'spike' and what results is the division of a particle and its antiparticle equivalent out of a state of pure quantum potential. The analogy that was used to explain it to me is dividing 1 and -1 out of zero. If you can combine the two, shouldn't the reverse operation be possible? And is it really getting something for nothing when you also get an equal quantity of "anti-something"? Evidently not. The law of conservation still stands, as the net energy doesn't change. It's an imbalance, not an increase or decrease in value.
 
2010-03-03 4:17:37 AM  

ninjakirby: AeAe: An explanation how we exist? I'm not sure I get you.. doesn't the evolutionary theory explain the "how"?

"Why" is a question of teleology, of purpose. Asking "why" the universe exists presupposes there is a purpose to existence. In short, without an external validation of the questions premise it's simply a flawed question with no answer. Evolution explains how we (humans and other living things) exists, just as the Big Bang is our best explanation for how we (the universe and everything) exists.

Ask why things are the way they are all you want, everyone does. Its what religions have done for millennia, and they're no closer to an answer now than when we first drew animal spirits on rocks.

To specifically answer your question: Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist?

"No, and neither do you."


Evolution is not the same as biogenesis.
 
2010-03-03 4:20:14 AM  

Baryogenesis:
It's like you're the kid in class who is frantically waving his hand desperately trying to get the teacher to call on you, but being ignored over and over because everyone knows you have the answer and it's time for someone else to get called on.


Oh, I remember that kid...maybe I was that kid.

AeAe you asked if atheists have an explanation for why the universe exists. Maybe it was sloppy phrasing on your part, but as others pointed out, asking why implies a purpose, and it also implies that YOU have an explanation that you arrived at through religion.

Atheists, as others have said repeatedly, are not a monolithic group. We don't have a supreme leader or a book of rules and regulations. There is no test required to become an atheist, nor could there be. So to ask if "atheists" have an explanation is silly on the face of it. Ask a dozen atheists and you might get a dozen different answers, and none of them represent atheists as a whole, because nobody speaks for atheists as a group.

Same deal with this asshat at the airport. He doesn't represent atheists any more than I do.

/and we told you the answer, twice already
//42
 
2010-03-03 4:21:19 AM  
Humans are so farking stupid.
 
2010-03-03 4:22:01 AM  

Naman: I kind of agree with the proselytizing "douchebag" here. It's kind of insulting to John Lennon's memory to have a prayer room in an airport named after him.


For real. If there was one thing John Lennon stood for, it was intolerance of the beliefs of others.

/only half joking
 
2010-03-03 4:23:47 AM  

Dubai Vol: Baryogenesis:
It's like you're the kid in class who is frantically waving his hand desperately trying to get the teacher to call on you, but being ignored over and over because everyone knows you have the answer and it's time for someone else to get called on.

Oh, I remember that kid...maybe I was that kid.

AeAe you asked if atheists have an explanation for why the universe exists. Maybe it was sloppy phrasing on your part, but as others pointed out, asking why implies a purpose, and it also implies that YOU have an explanation that you arrived at through religion.

Atheists, as others have said repeatedly, are not a monolithic group. We don't have a supreme leader or a book of rules and regulations. There is no test required to become an atheist, nor could there be. So to ask if "atheists" have an explanation is silly on the face of it. Ask a dozen atheists and you might get a dozen different answers, and none of them represent atheists as a whole, because nobody speaks for atheists as a group.

Same deal with this asshat at the airport. He doesn't represent atheists any more than I do.

/and we told you the answer, twice already
//42


I accept "42". I wasn't rejecting that answer.
 
2010-03-03 4:24:57 AM  
AeAe: why isn't this making as big a splash in the news that I think it should be?


Because of general scientific illiteracy.


"To the interested scientist, these ongoing chemical mysteries are no less seductive than questions related to black holes, quasars, and the early universe. But you will hardly ever read about them. Why? Because once again, the media has predetermined what is not worthy of coverage, even when the news item is something as uninteresting as the cosmic origin of every element in your body." ~ Death by Black Hole (p. 198)
 
2010-03-03 4:26:37 AM  
All this petty bickering and pointing of fingers and ratting out the 'bad man' who put out 'religiously offensive pictures' for anyone to see....
This is what comes from a perfect gods creation?
Hm.

/Quietly walks away
 
2010-03-03 4:29:48 AM  
AeAe: "I accept "42". I wasn't rejecting that answer."

Man, you're catching a lot of defensive hostility considering you only asked a sincere, well-meaning question. Hope you realize it's because they're testing the water to see if you're a combative fundie or not. We do get those around here and I hope you can forgive the hair-trigger polemic in light of that.
 
2010-03-03 4:31:56 AM  

Zamboro: AeAe: "I accept "42". I wasn't rejecting that answer."

Man, you're catching a lot of defensive hostility considering you only asked a sincere, well-meaning question. Hope you realize it's because they're testing the water to see if you're a combative fundie or not. We do get those around here and I hope you can forgive the hair-trigger polemic in light of that.


Thanks bro. I do appreciate that stuff you posted. I'll dig into it a little more so I can wrap my tiny brain around all that information. Interesting stuff.
 
2010-03-03 4:31:57 AM  
I know a guy who will somehow bring up atheism and the dangers of religion into every conversation. No matter the topic, he'll find the connection. He never turns off, farking annoying.

That said he's the only one, whereas I get door knockers for bible study groups and the like every month or so.
 
2010-03-03 4:34:15 AM  
As an atheist, I have to say that this guy sounds like an asshat.
 
2010-03-03 4:34:46 AM  

Wayfarer's Freedom: Religion sucks.

Atheism is retarded.

We need something really cool.


Here you go.
i283.photobucket.com
 
2010-03-03 4:37:50 AM  
So leaving pictures in a public place makes him MILITANT?

?
 
2010-03-03 4:40:11 AM  
I find your lack of lack of faith disturbing.
 
2010-03-03 4:44:57 AM  
WFern: The Big Bang is all well and good (and fascinating) but it doesn't explain existence in the sense I mean. The modern universe and life, sure, but the issue of existence (what caused the Big Bang, and what caused that, and that, etc) is something else entirely. No human being will likely ever know where it all started, if there is even a starting point.

I'd like to point out that time as we know it started at T=0 (the moment the Big Bang started). Prior (from our perspective) to T=0, space-time did not exist. Therefore, it's possible that the not-universe (whatever you want to call it - the Multiverse, the Void, whatever; it all boils down to That-Which-Isn't) does/did not operate on a causality-based system, if it has/had a system at all.

Even if That-Which-Isn't does/did operate on a causality-based system, that system might not be similar to the temporal causality that we know. Example: The universe began because it already existed. Infinite loop? Only in our universe.

/Extrauniversal concepts are difficult to describe.
//Also, semi-related (and freaking awesome) link (new window).
 
2010-03-03 4:45:21 AM  
Harry Taylor is accused of placing a series of "grossly abusive and insulting" photographs and cartoons depicting Christian and Muslim figures in the multi-faith room at Liverpool's John Lennon airport.

Chick Tracts huh?
 
2010-03-03 4:47:00 AM  
A MILITANT atheist

Stopped reading right there. If you need to capitalize buzz words, you can't be taken seriously.
 
2010-03-03 5:02:01 AM  

logruszed: I will indeed use what tools I have to attempt to sway people away from wasting time on making wishes or thinking about invisible ghosts and all powerful spirits.


Blah blah blah. You actually have tools which can make people not believe in what they believe? Could not your talents be better focused on creating unity and friendship and other blah blah blah?
 
2010-03-03 5:02:32 AM  

AeAe: Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it.


My answer has always been, 'shiat happens'.

/sorry that I'm late to the party
 
2010-03-03 5:02:47 AM  
I couldn't give two tin shiats for or against religion, but this struck me as funny.

FTFA:"But showing the images to jurors, who all swore their oath on the Bible"

What the hell is the defendant gonna do?

Can you answer no to swearing on the Bible to tell the truth? Honestly curious, as I've never been in a courtroom.
 
2010-03-03 5:03:40 AM  

AlmightyFjord: WFern: The Big Bang is all well and good (and fascinating) but it doesn't explain existence in the sense I mean. The modern universe and life, sure, but the issue of existence (what caused the Big Bang, and what caused that, and that, etc) is something else entirely. No human being will likely ever know where it all started, if there is even a starting point.

I'd like to point out that time as we know it started at T=0 (the moment the Big Bang started). Prior (from our perspective) to T=0, space-time did not exist. Therefore, it's possible that the not-universe (whatever you want to call it - the Multiverse, the Void, whatever; it all boils down to That-Which-Isn't) does/did not operate on a causality-based system, if it has/had a system at all.

Even if That-Which-Isn't does/did operate on a causality-based system, that system might not be similar to the temporal causality that we know. Example: The universe began because it already existed. Infinite loop? Only in our universe.

/Extrauniversal concepts are difficult to describe.
//Also, semi-related (and freaking awesome) link (new window).


They're not difficult, your describing God.
 
2010-03-03 5:04:09 AM  

ninjakirby: mamoru: 1.) The guy in TFA is a complete asshat.
2.) There are far more religious proselytizers and there are atheist ones.
3.) #2 in no way diminishes #1.

Preach it baby.

Also, I have the feeling this thread is gonna need this:


And on the same token, here:

[image from immortalmusic.net too old to be available]

/anyone ever really hurt by praying?
//know Pat Roberson wishes it did... ;)
///thinks militant ANYTHING is wrong. Just lay off my faith, I lay off yours.
////btw, how's the wife and kids?
//SLASHIES!!!
 
2010-03-03 5:08:46 AM  
People Are Idiots: "And on the same token, here:"

I don't understand. Do you think we're Communists?
 
2010-03-03 5:10:17 AM  

Cytokine Storm: I know a guy who will somehow bring up atheism and the dangers of religion into every conversation. No matter the topic, he'll find the connection. He never turns off, farking annoying.

That said he's the only one, whereas I get door knockers for bible study groups and the like every month or so.


Y'know, I must be frickin' lucky! I never get a knock on the door from some "militant christian" douche... I feel left out. I want to be rudely awakened too!
 
2010-03-03 5:11:12 AM  

Zamboro: People Are Idiots: "And on the same token, here:"

I don't understand. Do you think we're Communists?


No, but the three listed caused a revolution that has killed -how- many millions?
 
2010-03-03 5:14:19 AM  

People_are_Idiots: And on the same token, here:


I'm going to be brief cause it's late. Did Stalin kill in the name of atheism? Did his atheism lead him to kill? Atheism is an incidental property to Stalin's insanity. You might as well blame his mustache. On the other hand, some people have killed in the name of their God.

People_are_Idiots: anyone ever really hurt by praying?


Not directly, but when prayer is used as a substitute for traditional medicine they are being harmed.

People_are_Idiots: thinks militant ANYTHING is wrong. Just lay off my faith, I lay off yours.


I'm on board with this. Too bad we can't get everyone to agree.


/goodnight folks
 
2010-03-03 5:14:41 AM  
img1.tvloop.comView Full Size


/Something we can all believe in
 
2010-03-03 5:15:03 AM  
So I suspect this guy was a Baptist Preacher in a past life and came back with the same dedication to irritating people.

Well you have to give the guy credit for being certain about his beliefs. The real danger comes from the agnostics who cannot make up their minds.
 
2010-03-03 5:21:45 AM  
People_Are_Idiots: "No, but the three listed caused a revolution that has killed -how- many millions?"

Right, as a result of extreme economic/political ideology. Precisely what we're warning against. The argument isn't that supernatural belief is necessary to motivate atrocities. But unreason is. Totalitarian regimes rely on uncritical thought; the willingness to accept the party's claims without supporting evidence. In other words, faith. That is the source of our opposition to religion; it's, at the most basic level, a defense of reason.

I want you to read up on The Taiping Rebellion. It was a Christian proto-Communist uprising that killed even more than Stalin's regime. The leader, Hong Xiuquan, believed himself to be the brother of Jesus, and his regime was called the Heavenly Kingdom.

So, to recap:

Christianity + Communism = atrocities.
Atheism + Communism = atrocities.
Christianity alone = atrocities.
Atheism alone = no atrocities.

It's the ideological element, (and specifically the reliance upon and promotion of faith) that seems to be the poison element here.
 
2010-03-03 5:27:21 AM  

Baryogenesis: People_are_Idiots: And on the same token, here:

I'm going to be brief cause it's late. Did Stalin kill in the name of atheism? Did his atheism lead him to kill? Atheism is an incidental property to Stalin's insanity. You might as well blame his mustache. On the other hand, some people have killed in the name of their God.


"It is the opium of the people. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions."

- Karl Marx, Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right

Stalin killed because he believed in everything Lenin, and Marx before him, laid down. They believed adamantly religion should be purged from everyone. This was -a- driving force with Stalin, though not -the- driving force. (Fortunately, Khrushchev did change some of Stalin's policies).

People_are_Idiots: anyone ever really hurt by praying?

Not directly, but when prayer is used as a substitute for traditional medicine they are being harmed.


I agree there too, but I've also seen the other token of a "tin foil" refuse to get immunization for his kid due to him thinking it a government conspiracy. It's the extreme you speak of, not the norm. As stated below, -any- militant is wrong. That'd be like saying "people with guns don't kill people," when you know the ones with the guns are lunatics.

People_are_Idiots: thinks militant ANYTHING is wrong. Just lay off my faith, I lay off yours.

I'm on board with this. Too bad we can't get everyone to agree.


/goodnight folks


Night!
 
2010-03-03 5:28:56 AM  
Oh, convenient time to make an exit. :-\
 
2010-03-03 5:35:35 AM  
cartoonstock.comView Full Size
 
2010-03-03 5:44:17 AM  

AeAe: Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it.


Atheists are the ones who don't have the farking self-deluded hubris to think that they have an explanation.

It's much braver to have to admit you don't know anything about life, the universe, and everything, instead of comforting yourself with fairy tales in order to avoid the mind blowing truth that you are blind, we are all blind. Every single person on this planet is answer-free, and anybody who says otherwise is a goddamned liar.
 
2010-03-03 5:46:10 AM  
Atheists should read Ecclesiastes. There is nothing new under the sun. What has happened has already happened. That's some quantum thought written several thousand years ago.
 
2010-03-03 5:49:13 AM  

Zamboro: People_Are_Idiots: "No, but the three listed caused a revolution that has killed -how- many millions?"

Right, as a result of extreme economic/political ideology. Precisely what we're warning against. The argument isn't that supernatural belief is necessary to motivate atrocities. But unreason is. Totalitarian regimes rely on uncritical thought; the willingness to accept the party's claims without supporting evidence. In other words, faith. That is the source of our opposition to religion; it's, at the most basic level, a defense of reason.

I want you to read up on The Taiping Rebellion. It was a Christian proto-Communist uprising that killed even more than Stalin's regime. The leader, Hong Xiuquan, believed himself to be the brother of Jesus, and his regime was called the Heavenly Kingdom.

So, to recap:

Christianity + Communism = atrocities.
Atheism + Communism = atrocities.
Christianity alone = no atrocities.
Atheism alone = no atrocities.

It's the ideological element, (and specifically the reliance upon and promotion of faith) that seems to be the poison element here.


Lessee.... quoted from there that 20 million died. "Most of the death was attributed to plague and famine." Stalin was 10-20 million... not naturally-occurring deaths either (mass murders were common under Stalin alone). Link (new window)

Militant Atheism is real, just as hideous as Militants in other religions. This is all I point out.

As far a Christianity alone causing atrocities, the Bible just sitting there would kill anyone. Course drop one from a building and it could hurt someone, but then, drop any book from a certain height, and that too can hurt. ;)

"It is true that it's possible that religion can produce evil, and generally when we look closer at the detail it produces evil because the individual people are actually living in a rejection of the tenets of Christianity and a rejection of the God that they are supposed to be following. So it can produce it, but the historical fact is that outright rejection of God and institutionalizing of atheism actually does produce evil on incredible levels. We're talking about tens of millions of people as a result of the rejection of God." - Gregory Koukl

/just a quote I saw, have tons of them ;)
 
2010-03-03 6:06:45 AM  
I think subby touched a nerve.

You guys should really try out agnosticism. Then, you get to feel superior to almost everyone else. Of course, if you don't want to, don't. I couldn't care less either way.

/the above was agnostic proselytizing brought to you by me
 
2010-03-03 6:07:08 AM  

Sun God: Atheists should read Ecclesiastes. There is nothing new under the sun. What has happened has already happened. That's some quantum thought written several thousand years ago.


You have no idea what quantum means, do you?

/In regards to science.
 
2010-03-03 6:11:36 AM  
I'm a Born Again Agnostic.

Tried to be a Pagan, but it's too organized.

I don't like Middle Men.
 
2010-03-03 6:14:00 AM  
To be fair, I've lived in muslim countries, christian countries, and I've had many friends of various faiths and of no faiths at all. Only one group has ever tried to convert me, and they do so on an annoyingly regular basis. Farking Jedis!

But seriously, as I understand it, if christians aren't bothering people into joining their religion, then they're not following it properly, so I guess they can get a pass.
 
2010-03-03 6:17:55 AM  

People_are_Idiots: As far a Christianity alone causing atrocities, the Bible just sitting there would kill anyone.


The Bible contains instructions on who it is appropriate to kill, often by the most horrendous methods (stoning, burning), and sets an example by depicting a god who regularly commands mass murder, and believes unlimited torture is just. So yes, the Bible - or rather the instruction in it - has killed countless people.
 
2010-03-03 6:19:42 AM  
Stalin was a seminarian.
 
2010-03-03 6:19:47 AM  

untaken_name: You guys should really try out agnosticism.


I can't stand militant agnostics.
 
2010-03-03 6:20:02 AM  

MexicanNerd: Sun God: Atheists should read Ecclesiastes. There is nothing new under the sun. What has happened has already happened. That's some quantum thought written several thousand years ago.

You have no idea what quantum means, do you?

/In regards to science.


Apparently not. I'm sure someone will explain it to me.

/Heisenberg may have slept here
 
2010-03-03 6:27:46 AM  

memebot_of_doom: untaken_name: You guys should really try out agnosticism.

I can't stand militant agnostics.


You stop talking bad about me and my religion or I'll become very slightly upset!
 
2010-03-03 6:28:41 AM  

AeAe: Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it.


We don't need one.
We just are.
SFW
Deal with it.
 
2010-03-03 6:35:53 AM  

untaken_name: You stop talking bad about me and my religion or I'll become very slightly upset!


Are you sure about that?
 
2010-03-03 6:36:42 AM  

memebot_of_doom: I can't stand militant agnostics.


Militant fence sitters?
 
2010-03-03 6:39:08 AM  

memebot_of_doom: People_are_Idiots: As far a Christianity alone causing atrocities, the Bible just sitting there would kill anyone.

The Bible contains instructions on who it is appropriate to kill, often by the most horrendous methods (stoning, burning), and sets an example by depicting a god who regularly commands mass murder, and believes unlimited torture is just. So yes, the Bible - or rather the instruction in it - has killed countless people.


By that regard, so has the Anarchist Cookbook. Of course, the Bible also has stories and words of how to be nice, and forgive, and not judge others... sounds like the Encyclopedia Britannica... man that'd hurt too if I threw it off a high rise.
 
2010-03-03 6:40:05 AM  

AeAe: divedeep: AeAe: Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it.

Science has a nice head start on this answer. Rest assured though that this gas-ball planet likely wasn't magically formed in seven days.

Not talking about Biblical/creationism story. And I'm somewhat familiar with the Big Bang theory - a lot of energy in a very small space exploding, right?


Not having a full explanation is, in all fairness, significantly superior to having a demonstrably incorrect explanation.

The inability to accept this is the mark of the kind of human that's going to be bred out of the race in a few hundred generations. Well, sooner than that, since we're probably going to start engineering ourselves in two or three.

//Not saying religion will die out. Current forms of religion? Yeah, enjoy it while you can, lads.
 
2010-03-03 6:42:55 AM  

People_are_Idiots: Zamboro: People_Are_Idiots: "No, but the three listed caused a revolution that has killed -how- many millions?"

...

Militant Atheism is real, just as hideous as Militants in other religions. This is all I point out.

As far a Christianity alone causing atrocities, the Bible just sitting there would kill anyone. Course drop one from a building and it could hurt someone, but then, drop any book from a certain height, and that too can hurt. ;)

"It is true that it's possible that religion can produce evil, and generally when we look closer at the detail it produces evil because the individual people are actually living in a rejection of the tenets of Christianity and a rejection of the God that they are supposed to be following. So it can produce it, but the historical fact is that outright rejection of God and institutionalizing of atheism actually does produce evil on incredible levels. We're talking about tens of millions of people as a result of the rejection of God." - Gregory Koukl


How do you institutionalize 'not believing'?

It makes as much sense as saying "My hobby is not collecting stamps"

Replacing religion with something else similar but without God, falls into the same logical fallacies as religion itself.

Atheism = No belief in God. That's all there is to it.

But if you replace God with any other dogma, whether political, economic or otherwise, it is exactly the same as religion.

Let's be clear here. The objection isn't to Atheism, it is to the atheists who trade one dogma for another; whether it is environmentalism, communism, fascism, objectivism, (I know I going to get shiat for that one) or any other -ism
 
2010-03-03 6:57:39 AM  
ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION!

Can people please start educating themselves?

Or does the theological history of Asia not matter?
 
2010-03-03 7:01:01 AM  

Sun God: MexicanNerd: Sun God: Atheists should read Ecclesiastes. There is nothing new under the sun. What has happened has already happened. That's some quantum thought written several thousand years ago.

You have no idea what quantum means, do you?

/In regards to science.

Apparently not. I'm sure someone will explain it to me.

/Heisenberg may have slept here


You also don't know what the Heisenberg principle means, either.

/Shrödinger's cat is antiquated
 
2010-03-03 7:07:00 AM  

memebot_of_doom: untaken_name: You stop talking bad about me and my religion or I'll become very slightly upset!

Are you sure about that?


Sorry, that's unknown, and possibly unknowable.
 
2010-03-03 7:07:23 AM  

sgnilward: The objection isn't to Atheism,


Actually, that's pretty much the objection.

I have never met an atheist who didn't believe in Luck, Karma, Reincarnation, Spiritual Healing, Yoga, Vitamins, Chi, Yin, and/or Yang.

They usually just say they don't believe in the Christian idea of The Holy Trinity.
 
2010-03-03 7:07:35 AM  

sgnilward: People_are_Idiots: Zamboro: People_Are_Idiots: "No, but the three listed caused a revolution that has killed -how- many millions?"

...

Militant Atheism is real, just as hideous as Militants in other religions. This is all I point out.

As far a Christianity alone causing atrocities, the Bible just sitting there would kill anyone. Course drop one from a building and it could hurt someone, but then, drop any book from a certain height, and that too can hurt. ;)

"It is true that it's possible that religion can produce evil, and generally when we look closer at the detail it produces evil because the individual people are actually living in a rejection of the tenets of Christianity and a rejection of the God that they are supposed to be following. So it can produce it, but the historical fact is that outright rejection of God and institutionalizing of atheism actually does produce evil on incredible levels. We're talking about tens of millions of people as a result of the rejection of God." - Gregory Koukl


How do you institutionalize 'not believing'?


Best to ask Koukl, that's his quote. For me, atheism is a belief that "there's no god/goddess/deity" through whatever means one see fit to prove it in.

It makes as much sense as saying "My hobby is not collecting stamps"

Hey! Stamps can kill just as much as coins!

Seriously, it's more comparing a person with an old single-shot gun vs a person with a knife. A really good person can kill one with either weapon. Course, the most moral choice is to not kill at all, right?

Replacing religion with something else similar but without God, falls into the same logical fallacies as religion itself.

As would replacing God with some other deity. Imagine a country solely dedicated to the worship of Kali. Would this be a happy country? Course I'm sure one that worships Soma or Dionysus would be... The thing is no matter how you slice it, religion is still religion. The same can hold true to atheism, although atheism doesn't always go down the communism trail.

Atheism = No belief in God. That's all there is to it.

Ehhh... might need to change that assumption. Much like religion, there are -many- ways to classify an atheist. Here: Link (new window)


Let's be clear here. The objection isn't to Atheism, it is to the atheists who trade one dogma for another; whether it is environmentalism, communism, fascism, objectivism, (I know I going to get shiat for that one) or any other -ism

I dunno, surrealism might be nice ;)
 
2010-03-03 7:08:53 AM  

sgnilward: How do you institutionalize 'not believing'?

It makes as much sense as saying "My hobby is not collecting stamps"


Actually, it's more like "My hobby is not collecting stamps, and frequenting sites stamp-collectors frequent, where I make fun of stamp collectors and brag about my superiority for not collecting stamps."

At least, in my experience.
 
2010-03-03 7:10:50 AM  

MexicanNerd: You also don't know what the Heisenberg principle means, either.

/Shrödinger's cat is antiquated


I have your cat. He took me for two cans of tuna and fought off at least 2.5 raccoons. I don't know where he went after that sort of donnybrook.
 
2010-03-03 7:12:30 AM  

thelordofcheese: ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION!

Can people please start educating themselves?

Or does the theological history of Asia not matter?


[image from immortalmusic.net too old to be available]
 
2010-03-03 7:12:43 AM  
Atheism != religion, and mocking people for their stupidity != proselytizing.
 
2010-03-03 7:15:28 AM  

Herunar: Atheism != religion, and mocking people for their stupidity != proselytizing.


FTFA: "But he told Liverpool crown court he was just practising his own religion of "reason and rationality" in the hope of converting people to atheism."

You *do* know what proselytizing is, right? Or were you making a non sequitur?
 
2010-03-03 7:23:24 AM  

JerseyTim: HeartBurnKid: I get a couple of doorknockers every weekend.

Is this for real? This has never happened to me ever. Is this just a regional thing? Are the people of New Jersey too far gone to be saved?


Southern thing. I used to get it all the time, until I started answering the door in my boxers with a broadsword on my shoulder.

Klingon Penis: Blame the victim: Religious leaflet claims 'ungodly' dressed women provoke rape


THIS. I've seen dozens of religious pamphlets that I found offensive, and this is one of them.

memebot_of_doom: From the article:

Taylor, of Griffin Street, Salford, denies three counts of religiously aggravated intentional harassment, alarm or distress.

Can someone please explain UK law?


I think that might be their term for 'faith-based hate crime' ... Maybe.
 
2010-03-03 7:40:58 AM  
Total Fark debunks that myth.
 
2010-03-03 7:41:50 AM  

memebot_of_doom: The Bible contains instructions on who it is appropriate to kill, often by the most horrendous methods (stoning, burning), and sets an example by depicting a god who regularly commands mass murder, and believes unlimited torture is just. So yes, the Bible - or rather the instruction in it - has killed countless people.


"The Bible" isn't originally a single book, it is a collection of writings of fiction and nonfiction by different authors at different points in history, who are not rarely in agreement on anything at all. It would be very similar if I bound "origin of the species" with "American psycho". The only thing to learn from your post, is that you have no idea how the bible came to exist in the current form.

That said, the guy in the article is a typical dickwad, and I defend his right to be such in public. Littering the airport with any form of literature is probably against the airport's rules though.
 
2010-03-03 7:42:52 AM  
Pretty sure that was a great troll headline.
 
2010-03-03 7:43:48 AM  

thelordofcheese: ATHEISM IS NOT A RELIGION!

Can people please start educating themselves?

Or does the theological history of Asia not matter?


Actually, it does NOT matter. At all.
 
2010-03-03 7:44:05 AM  

Zamboro: AeAe: "Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it."

Pardon the copypasta, but I get tired of answering this over and over:

News that there had been a 'big bang' was initially encouraging to Christians; It was discovered by a priest named George LeMaitre, and when he presented his discovery to the pope, he became eager to proclaim it scientific proof of the veracity of the Genesis account. LeMaitre wisely cautioned him against this. It is true that Genesis speaks of God creating light. But while the big bang was likely accompanied by a great deal of light, that is the only, tenuous commonality. Genesis also speaks of the heavens being divided from the Earth by God "separating the waters", and everything above the "firmament" (the dome that made up our sky, to which stars were physically attached) was water as well, with trap doors opening every so often to allow water to fall through (the Talmudic explanation for rain.) Seizing upon this one likeness and ignoring all of the other contradictions is a perfect example of confirmation bias. It's the same sort of thinking that makes people focus only on the few vague predictions that television psychics get right, while ignoring the countless failed predictions they'd made before.

LeMaitre knew that it was better not to put all of Christianity's eggs in one basket, as a great many new discoveries were being announced at the time and if his theory were to be overturned or if some new detail came to light that rendered natural causation more likely, it would be disastrous for the Pope. LeMaitre was right to be cautious. The advent of large scale colliders like the Tevatron and LHC provided new insights into the nature of matter, (It's actually distorted vacuum energy) revised its relationship with the law of conservation (both matter and energy could have come into existence naturally without violating that law, as provided that they're "balanced out" by negative gravitational energy, the total energy state of the universe would remain zero....and in fact that's simple to confirm) and produced new evidence (the COBE/WMAP probes' maps of the lingering microwave background radiation from the big bang, observed instances of particle pair separation both in simulations of the big bang and in actual collider experiments) that the universe really did emerge from nothing by way of particle pair separation catalyzed by natural, random fluctuations in vacuum energy. (See "The Free Lunch That Made the Universe", "Something from Nothing a Quantum Possibility", and "A Universe From Nothing".)


There's a big difference between "why" and "how."
 
2010-03-03 7:47:53 AM  
i32.tinypic.comView Full Size


/oblig.
 
2010-03-03 7:55:08 AM  
i.imgur.comView Full Size


i.imgur.comView Full Size


I agree with the defendant Harry Taylor. Having a prayer room in the Liverpool - John Lennon Airport is an insult to John Lennon. That said, I would never have known this except for Harry's MILITANT protest. Give them Hell Harry!
 
2010-03-03 7:56:05 AM  
Atheists advertise more than proselytize, simply by going about their business. Most people would rather have a slammin breakfast at the diner or go fishing on sunday morning than go to church.
 
2010-03-03 8:02:24 AM  

SuperCatBarf: Curious question: are cats mentioned in the Bible?


I don't think they are. Lions, sure, by the busload. But I think regular house cats got left out. :-(

/BTW, I can't believe nobody has posted that cartoon where the atheists are going door to door, handing out blank pamphlets.
 
2010-03-03 8:12:07 AM  

Zamboro: Christian proto-Communist uprising


Sorry, but calling that uprising Communist is a stretch.
Christian? Yes
Chinese Labor Groups? Yes
Communist? No
 
gad
2010-03-03 8:18:47 AM  
Another exaggerated lying headline by another vicious, religious goofball whose only resort against logic and rationality is to say - 'See! Them Atheist folks is just like us Irrational Religious Folks!' Like one guy drawing cartoons involving pedophile Priests, condom holding Popes or Bomb Headed Muhammad's is going to change the magical thinking of a bunch of fundies who think they're going to eternal Paradise with all the Skanks and free beer they can handle.
 
2010-03-03 8:23:14 AM  
All religions proselytize, even those who chose to believe in nobody.
 
2010-03-03 8:26:54 AM  
At least he acknowledged it as his religion. That's a start. I think it is damned funny to hear some atheists claim to be intellectually superior than those with faith based religions when they themselves have faith that no god exists. It is even more amusing when they say they "know" that no god exists. They remind me of those who "know" that god does exist.

Some of us are smart enough to know that we have no way of knowing and are honest enough to simply say that we don't know. I am okay with not knowing but I'm more okay with generally not caring to know. People preaching atheism amuses me to no end but I'm rather easily amused. It is almost as amusing as when atheists claim to not be religious. Almost - but not quite. That one is my favorite. It wouldn't be so funny if they often weren't claiming to be smarter than the other religious folk.
 
2010-03-03 8:27:48 AM  
You know, I love reading through religious threads because it's like a dogpile of retards.

 
2010-03-03 8:29:15 AM  
[Christian does something horrible]
Christians: Don't paint us with a broad brush! That's just one guy! You can't assume we're all like that!

[Atheist does something annoying]
Christians: LOOK LOOK LOOK LOOK!!!11!1 ALL ATHEISTS ARE ASSWIPES!!!1!1


If this guy represents me, then Fred Phelps represents you. Have fun trying to win this game.
 
2010-03-03 8:35:29 AM  
CitizenTed: Instead, I like to talk about movies, music, farts and hot chicks.

images1.wikia.nocookie.netView Full Size
 
2010-03-03 8:39:06 AM  

People_are_Idiots:

/anyone ever really hurt by praying?


Kids who died from otherwise minor illnesses because their parents didn't go to a doctor just prayed for them to get better. (or in some cases come back from the dead) ((of course technically if you are dead you cant be 'hurt' by prayer))
 
2010-03-03 8:41:29 AM  

AeAe: Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it.


You are confused about what is and is not atheism, don't worry lots of people are. Atheism is not a philosophy, it is not a religion, it is not dogma, it is a word that expresses the statement there are no gods. Atheism does not include any explanation of life, the universe, and everything atheism is just a statement about gods.

Individual atheists often cite various scientific theories for their belief in Atheism. They often show the deficiencies and contradictory statements in various religious text in an attempt to defend their belief or explain how they came to belief that there are no gods, but Atheism includes none of those. They often attack religion, because they are Atheists, but Atheism requires none of that.

Heck you can believe in ghosts, magic, or other supernatural phenomenon and still be an Atheist. As long as you do not believe in gods you can hold any other believe you want and still be an Atheist.

So, you see the question "Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it." has no meaning in relation to Atheism. Sure individual Atheist do, and will talk about those theories incessantly, but those believe are not part of Atheism.
 
2010-03-03 8:41:58 AM  

MrLint: People_are_Idiots:

/anyone ever really hurt by praying?


Kids who died from otherwise minor illnesses because their parents didn't go to a doctor just prayed for them to get better. (or in some cases come back from the dead) ((of course technically if you are dead you cant be 'hurt' by prayer))


Hmm, there seems to be much FAIL in your logic, but it would appear that you already have that inkling.
 
2010-03-03 8:43:38 AM  
Yay, another atheist bashing thread! (But no, it's your Christians who are so persecuted, you poor poor babies.)
 
2010-03-03 8:45:50 AM  

FlashHarry: /oblig.


Lol that's funny. It's like when Britain owned India, and the British were oppressed since they formed a small minority of the people there.
 
2010-03-03 8:45:52 AM  

mamoru: ninjakirby: It was an experience.

Hah!

BROTHERS! THE GREAT ATHEIST SCHISM IS UPON US!! IT IS NOW TIME TO TAKE UP ARMS AND STRIKE DOWN THE NONerrr... non-non-believers? un-infidels? Wait. What the fark are we supposed to call them?

Ah, fark it.

Anyone up for a beer?


THE STREETS WILL FLOW WITH THE BLOOD OF THE UN-NON-BELIEVER!
 
2010-03-03 8:49:37 AM  

mamoru: Anyone up for a beer?


A One True IPA, or are you one of those heathen doppelbock worshippers?

AeAe: Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it.


Yes. Not that others have an "explanation" so much as a "something we tossed out there that doesn't have evidence, and doesn't make rational sense."

Not that the question requires an "answer," either.

misanthropologist: There's a big difference between "why" and "how."


The question of "why" does not need to be used teleologically. And if it is, well...

ninjakirby: "Why" is a question of teleology, of purpose. Asking "why" the universe exists presupposes there is a purpose to existence. In short, without an external validation of the questions premise it's simply a flawed question with no answer. Evolution explains how we (humans and other living things) exists, just as the Big Bang is our best explanation for how we (the universe and everything) exists.

Ask why things are the way they are all you want, everyone does. Its what religions have done for millennia, and they're no closer to an answer now than when we first drew animal spirits on rocks.

 
2010-03-03 8:50:33 AM  
My my, the atheists are a touchy crowd.
 
2010-03-03 8:52:42 AM  

HeartBurnKid: Oh please, subby. I can't take public transportation without being proselytized to at least once, and I get a couple of doorknockers every weekend. You want to tell me that one douchebag atheist leaving a few pictures in an airport is equivalent to the hundreds of douchebag Christians who leave Chick tracts on bus seats, scream into megaphones outside subway stations, and wake me up on Saturday and Sunday mornings?


Where do you live where that happens so constantly? I grew up in a fairly Christian town and had doorknockers maybe 5 times in 20 years. No Chick Tracts, no "you're going to hell" literature, nothing. Occasionally I'd receive a copy of The Watchtower in my mailbox, but instead of being offended, I just put it in the recycling bin.

I now live in a major city, and that still hasn't happened. Oh, I met a couple of Mormons on a subway once who were doing their door-to-door stuff. After explaining my position, we had a very pleasant 20 minute conversation about all kinds of stuff. In fact, some of the most pleasant people I know are Mormons.

It all depends on your point of view. People see what they want to see. Go spend some time at a liberal university and you will find atheists calling the religious folk idiots and retards for believing in an invisible sky wizard (though interestingly enough, it's usually only the Christians they're directing that to).

Are there douchebag Christians/religious folk? Sure. They're the ones with the money and the platform to be heard. Are there douchebag atheists? You bet your ass, and I've seen a hell of a lot more of those than douchebag religious folks. But then, when something comes up that I don't want to hear, I change the channel or walk away and I'm all the better for it.
 
2010-03-03 8:54:41 AM  
You guys are saying atheists don't do what?
thegospelnewswire.comView Full Size


Atheists are just as retarded as other religious folk. Enjoy your religion.
 
2010-03-03 8:58:04 AM  

UnspokenVoice: At least he acknowledged it as his religion. That's a start. I think it is damned funny to hear some atheists claim to be intellectually superior than those with faith based religions when they themselves have faith that no god exists. It is even more amusing when they say they "know" that no god exists. They remind me of those who "know" that god does exist.

Some of us are smart enough to know that we have no way of knowing and are honest enough to simply say that we don't know. I am okay with not knowing but I'm more okay with generally not caring to know. People preaching atheism amuses me to no end but I'm rather easily amused. It is almost as amusing as when atheists claim to not be religious. Almost - but not quite. That one is my favorite. It wouldn't be so funny if they often weren't claiming to be smarter than the other religious folk.


I find those who claim we have no way of knowing to just be those too lazy to make a choice. The default position is not religion or atheism, those positions require thought, emotion, belief, the default or laziest and most intellectually, emotionally, spiritually dishonest position you can take is agnosticism.

Attacking either side, or both, the way you do just shows how insecure in your own laziness you are. You can't even be bothered to debate either side you just make the lazy assumption that atheism and religion are equivalent beliefs and their argument is just like the argument that any two religions have with one another.

You are not smart sir, you are just a lazy, intellectually, emotionally, and spiritually dishonest person.
 
2010-03-03 8:58:33 AM  
Religiously aggravated intentional harassment, alarm or distress...

I'll have to remember that one for the door-knockers!
 
2010-03-03 9:02:12 AM  

Did I spell this correctly: You guys are saying atheists don't do what?


Atheists are just as retarded as other religious folk. Enjoy your religion.


That's not proselytizing.
 
2010-03-03 9:08:58 AM  

GavinTheAlmighty: HeartBurnKid: Oh please, subby. I can't take public transportation without being proselytized to at least once, and I get a couple of doorknockers every weekend. You want to tell me that one douchebag atheist leaving a few pictures in an airport is equivalent to the hundreds of douchebag Christians who leave Chick tracts on bus seats, scream into megaphones outside subway stations, and wake me up on Saturday and Sunday mornings?

Where do you live where that happens so constantly? I grew up in a fairly Christian town and had doorknockers maybe 5 times in 20 years. No Chick Tracts, no "you're going to hell" literature, nothing. Occasionally I'd receive a copy of The Watchtower in my mailbox, but instead of being offended, I just put it in the recycling bin.

I now live in a major city, and that still hasn't happened. Oh, I met a couple of Mormons on a subway once who were doing their door-to-door stuff. After explaining my position, we had a very pleasant 20 minute conversation about all kinds of stuff. In fact, some of the most pleasant people I know are Mormons.

It all depends on your point of view. People see what they want to see. Go spend some time at a liberal university and you will find atheists calling the religious folk idiots and retards for believing in an invisible sky wizard (though interestingly enough, it's usually only the Christians they're directing that to).

Are there douchebag Christians/religious folk? Sure. They're the ones with the money and the platform to be heard. Are there douchebag atheists? You bet your ass, and I've seen a hell of a lot more of those than douchebag religious folks. But then, when something comes up that I don't want to hear, I change the channel or walk away and I'm all the better for it.


I think you are having this same problem.

Personally, I don't give a damn about your religion. The only god that exists is the conceptual one which differs for every person. Ever wonder why no two people ever agree on every religious issue? It's because their concepts of god differ. Because of this conceptualization, god basically is an extension of your unconscious mind. Believing that god is real doesn't fundamentally change who you are, rather who you are determines whether you believe in god and the characteristics of that god.

In addition, god is a rather inconsequential part of religion. Religion is more about joining a group of people that think the same way you do. God or atheist, people are going to form groups with ideas, opinions, morals that differ from those of other groups. The more different the people in the groups are, the more different the gods will be.

The belief in god is a process of evolution. Society as a whole, if it keeps advancing technologically, will likely evolve beyond religion. Regardless, groups will continue to form based on other criteria. Even the writers at South Park understand this simple concept.
 
2010-03-03 9:09:46 AM  

hachijuhachi: My my, the atheists are a touchy crowd.


Don't you think you would be too if the leader of your country stated publicly that No, I don't know that atheists should be regarded as citizens, nor should they be regarded as patriotic. This is one nation under God.... I support the separation of church and state. I'm just not very high on atheists. George H. W. Bush O'Hare Airport 1987, or when a large portion of your fellow citizens want to run you out of the country, or if you have ever had to physically defend your self from believers because they attacked you for being an atheist? Don't you think you would be a little touchy too?
 
2010-03-03 9:10:50 AM  

Zamboro: Pardon the copypasta, but I get tired of answering this over and over:



nice spin zamboro.... nice spin......

Let's recap because I get tired of the copypasta with you too.

Does the universe and existence have a creator, and/or are there aspects of reality and existence that extend beyond "physical nature".

Those are questions that cannot be answered scientifically.

Being a scientists Lemaître understood that such questions were and are outside of science. Being a priest, Lemaitre presumably answered this question theologically rather than scientifically.

Why you can't understand the following amazing part....

Science is based on methodological naturalism. If you are a scientist you have to be a methodological naturalist (i.e., assume for operative purposes that nature and natural laws are all that there is); but this doesn't commit you to the stronger position of philosophical naturalism (i.e., to the claim that there really isn't anything outside of nature and its laws). That requires a philosophical position. Lemaître understood this, you don't.

From a scientific framework, all we do is move the questions and model nature around a paradox. Whether you an admit it or not is a different story.

So.... Final answer on QCD and string theory being the reason we have existence vs. nothing? Or are you more interested in simply converting people to atheism by repeating matter is made of quantum vacuum fluctuations. I'm just curious why you cannot admit you still end up with the same questions, you only move them to a different point in "time" (for lack of a better word on a topic where time has no relevance).

The Higgs mechanism does not explain why mass, or its energy equivalent, resists motion or reacts to gravity, or why we have a ZPF greater than zero and a sea of Higgs bosons as the default state of existence for the universe before the cosmic singularity and quantum vacuum fluctuations.

Even if it did, we'd just continue to have more questions.

dixitque Deus fiat lux et facta est lux

/but again, nice spin.

It's amazing how many people think a concept of a God or deity transcending space-time (or "nature" - if you can define nature that is) must be empirically testable under scientific method simply because they believe it must be.

//not a creationist. just a mathematician.
 
2010-03-03 9:16:45 AM  

AeAe: Dubai Vol: phrawgh: AeAe: Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it.

42

/does everything need an explanation, just to be?

Exactly. Facts simply ARE, self demonstrating, without need of explanation. Why do you, AeAe, need an "explanation" for existence? Or perhaps the question is, why do you think that an explanation is necessary? But I'll say this: the "explanation" that "God did it" is no explanation at all. It has no basis in fact or logic. It's a completely made-up "explanation." You're welcome to it if it helps you sleep at night, but if you insist on talking about it to people who don't agree, expect a rebuttal.

/and also, 42
//as good an answer as any

I had a response to phrawgh answer, but it didn't post for some reason - which was - that it was a good point.

The question I had, which I guess you folks decided to read into, was if atheists have an explanation for existence - the answer appears to be "no"... and that's a fine enough answer.


"We apologise for the inconvenience."
-God
 
2010-03-03 9:22:41 AM  

Zamboro: AeAe: "The question I had, which I guess you folks decided to read into, was if atheists have an explanation for existence - the answer appears to be "no"... and that's a fine enough answer."

You seem to have missed my post.


Not at all. He was asking "why", not "how."

"How" is a matter for science.

"Why" is a matter for religion, or philosophy, or bong-hits.
 
2010-03-03 9:23:20 AM  

People_are_Idiots: Militant Atheism is real, just as hideous as Militants in other religions. This is all I point out.



And what was pointed out to you is that Atheism has no motivating factors to catalyze atrocities.

What you call "Militant atheists" by way of Stalin et al. are more accurately described as ruthless demagogues who happen to profess atheism. You need to prove a causal link exists between atheism and the atrocities in question. Nobody has yet been able to do so... probably because atheism alone has no tenants, doctrines or principles with which to forge the necessary policies.

You are claiming Stalin was a mass murderer because he was an atheist, but you do not demonstrate his professed atheism was the reason for it. At best this is a generic questionable cause fallacy.

Take your time and think about it.
=Smidge=
 
2010-03-03 9:23:49 AM  

Nightie don't call me Wig: AeAe: Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it.

Atheists are the ones who don't have the farking self-deluded hubris to think that they have an explanation.

It's much braver to have to admit you don't know anything about life, the universe, and everything, instead of comforting yourself with fairy tales in order to avoid the mind blowing truth that you are blind, we are all blind. Every single person on this planet is answer-free, and anybody who says otherwise is a goddamned liar.


You're so brave, I hope I grow up to be just like you.
 
2010-03-03 9:25:00 AM  

Molavian: You know, I love reading through religious threads because it's like a dogpile of retards.


Don't leave out the butthurt. Lots and lots of butthurt.
 
2010-03-03 9:25:39 AM  
If a man lay eyes upon Slack and the Slack does not take him, then he does not deserve Slack.

And that's how I prostly

prostil


roll.
 
2010-03-03 9:30:06 AM  

Klingon Penis: One atheist proselytized. We aren't all directed to by an ancient book. subby fail.


One guy in one story must only mean that this is the only guy. That is some some serious deducing, pal.
 
2010-03-03 9:30:52 AM  

Smidge204: People_are_Idiots: Militant Atheism is real, just as hideous as Militants in other religions. This is all I point out.


And what was pointed out to you is that Atheism has no motivating factors to catalyze atrocities.

What you call "Militant atheists" by way of Stalin et al. are more accurately described as ruthless demagogues who happen to profess atheism. You need to prove a causal link exists between atheism and the atrocities in question. Nobody has yet been able to do so... probably because atheism alone has no tenants, doctrines or principles with which to forge the necessary policies.

You are claiming Stalin was a mass murderer because he was an atheist, but you do not demonstrate his professed atheism was the reason for it. At best this is a generic questionable cause fallacy.

Take your time and think about it.
=Smidge=


I would suggest you look back at all the supposed religious atrocities. You might find that there are reasons beyond religion for these atrocities and that religion is the excuse given.

Take your time and think about it. Oh, and do the research too.
 
2010-03-03 9:33:16 AM  

give me doughnuts: "Why" is a matter for religion, or philosophy, or bong-hits.


Doesn't that presuppose an agency (i.e. purpose)?
 
2010-03-03 9:36:01 AM  
There was a local access show in Austin put on by atheists. They regularly got calls on how to spread the word of "No God". They got the same advice as many Christians get on how to pass out pamphlets (known to christians as tracts), and strike up religious conversations with the goal of steering towards a no god discussion. Not to mention the Atheist Church that was founded here.

http://firstchurchofatheism.com/

http://www.acfnewsource.org/religion/atheist_church.html

http://www.rationalresponders.com/church_of_atheism
 
2010-03-03 9:37:33 AM  
Oh, boy...another religion vs. atheism thread. As usual...swarms of
morons posting that A-theism is a religion. Is it really that hard to grasp?
 
2010-03-03 9:37:52 AM  
I personally see nothing wrong with what this guy did. They were photo's. It's not like he vandalized the place with graffiti.
 
2010-03-03 9:38:31 AM  

SleepyMcGee: Doesn't that presuppose an agency (i.e. purpose)?



Not necessarily.
 
2010-03-03 9:39:59 AM  

bilbo douchebaggins: Oh, boy...another religion vs. atheism thread. As usual...swarms of
morons posting that A-theism is a religion. Is it really that hard to grasp?



Do you know how I know you did not read the article?

From the article:

"But he told Liverpool crown court he was just practising his own religion of "reason and rationality" in the hope of converting people to atheism."
 
2010-03-03 9:40:21 AM  

Naman: JerseyTim: Are the people of New Jersey too far gone to be saved?

I was under the impression that once you went to Hell, there was no coming back.


Clap clap clap.
 
2010-03-03 9:41:38 AM  

give me doughnuts: "Why" is a matter for religion, or philosophy, or bong-hits.


I choose the latter; makes it easier when you can openly admit that you're deluding yourself. Also, it makes TV watchable.
 
2010-03-03 9:42:56 AM  

Slaves2Darkness: hachijuhachi: My my, the atheists are a touchy crowd.

Don't you think you would be too if the leader of your country stated publicly that No, I don't know that atheists should be regarded as citizens, nor should they be regarded as patriotic. This is one nation under God.... I support the separation of church and state. I'm just not very high on atheists. George H. W. Bush O'Hare Airport 1987, or when a large portion of your fellow citizens want to run you out of the country, or if you have ever had to physically defend your self from believers because they attacked you for being an atheist? Don't you think you would be a little touchy too?


You've been physically attacked because you don't believe in God? GWB's words don't hold any water with lots of people, Christian, Jew, Muslim, Hindu, Atheist. And you really feel like a "large portion of your fellow citizens" want to "run you out of the country?" You're being a sensationalist here. The persecution of the Atheist is as much a myth in today's USA as is the persecution of the Evagelical.

We all need to get over ourselves.
 
2010-03-03 9:43:35 AM  

bilbo douchebaggins: Oh, boy...another religion vs. atheism thread. As usual...swarms of
morons posting that A-theism is a religion. Is it really that hard to grasp?


Just to be clear I am not saying it is a religion. But some atheists practice it as if it was.
It's like chewing gum ONLY because you don't want to smoke. Some people will feel a need to gather in support of a belief in something they can't prove(no god) replacing a belief in something they can't prove(god).
 
2010-03-03 9:44:25 AM  

GilRuiz1: bilbo douchebaggins: Oh, boy...another religion vs. atheism thread. As usual...swarms of
morons posting that A-theism is a religion. Is it really that hard to grasp?


Do you know how I know you did not read the article?

From the article:

"But he told Liverpool crown court he was just practising his own religion of "reason and rationality" in the hope of converting people to atheism."


Do you know how I know you didn't comprehend my post?
 
2010-03-03 9:45:21 AM  

GilRuiz1: Not necessarily.


But at what point is there a distinction between 'why' and 'how?' 'Why is the sky blue' can be explained with a scientific answer. I'm not trying to nitpick at language, but if one is going to make the distinction between 'how' and 'why' and questions, where does this distinction lie?

/general question to anyone, I know you didn't bring it up
//but I'm sure you have a related Stormtrooper image :)
 
2010-03-03 9:45:26 AM  

MexicanNerd: Evolution is not the same as abiogenesis.


FTFM
 
2010-03-03 9:46:24 AM  

SleepyMcGee: give me doughnuts: "Why" is a matter for religion, or philosophy, or bong-hits.

Doesn't that presuppose an agency (i.e. purpose)?


This was my though, but I wasn't going to say anything, why bother?
 
2010-03-03 9:48:26 AM  

People_are_Idiots: ninjakirby: mamoru: 1.) The guy in TFA is a complete asshat.
2.) There are far more religious proselytizers and there are atheist ones.
3.) #2 in no way diminishes #1.

Preach it baby.

Also, I have the feeling this thread is gonna need this:

And on the same token, here:



Fail

It want their atheism that made them 'militant', it was their ideology....
 
2010-03-03 9:49:32 AM  

jxb465: SleepyMcGee: give me doughnuts: "Why" is a matter for religion, or philosophy, or bong-hits.

Doesn't that presuppose an agency (i.e. purpose)?

This was my thought, but I wasn't going to say anything, why bother?


FTFM

Now maybe you will see what I did there.
 
2010-03-03 9:51:32 AM  

Sun God: sgnilward: The objection isn't to Atheism,

Actually, that's pretty much the objection.

I have never met an atheist who didn't believe in Luck, Karma, Reincarnation, Spiritual Healing, Yoga, Vitamins, Chi, Yin, and/or Yang.

They usually just say they don't believe in the Christian idea of The Holy Trinity.


Hi, I'm an atheist and I don't believe in any of the things you listed.
 
2010-03-03 9:53:11 AM  

SleepyMcGee: give me doughnuts: "Why" is a matter for religion, or philosophy, or bong-hits.

Doesn't that presuppose an agency (i.e. purpose)?


Only if you believe in that sort of thing. Personally, I don't think there is a "why", just an "is."
 
2010-03-03 9:54:33 AM  

jxb465: I would suggest you look back at all the supposed religious atrocities. You might find that there are reasons beyond religion for these atrocities and that religion is the excuse given.

Take your time and think about it. Oh, and do the research too.


Although religion as an official excuse/reasoning for an atrocity is, yes, very different from religion as a cause of an atrocity, the other farker has a point. Often times, because of the existence of a convenient religious excuse, an atrocity is easier to justify internally or more feasible in terms of execution, thus making it a better choice as policy. The point is that it's a uniquely efficient legitimiser of violence because it raises questions about good/evil and the nature of humanity - something that other ideologies need to be highly developed to do (extreme nationalism probably being an exception).

More on topic, I'm sick of these 'atheists' giving the rest of us a bad name. For me, atheism = not giving a shiat about religion and rarely thinking about it outside of an academic context. Perhaps that's areligious more than atheist, I guess.
 
2010-03-03 9:55:02 AM  
Obviously, it's different when an atheist does it. Christians don't get hauled into court and put on trial when they do it. They get a free pass. Yeah, it's totally the same thing.

Give me a call when people knock on your door to not tell you the good news. Or when people yell on the street that you're not going to hell. Or when there are multiple TV stations dedicated to telling you to don't bother accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior.
 
2010-03-03 9:55:25 AM  

Mort_Q: give me doughnuts: "Why" is a matter for religion, or philosophy, or bong-hits.

I choose the latter; makes it easier when you can openly admit that you're deluding yourself. Also, it makes TV watchable.


And it makes Sponge Bob even funnier.
 
2010-03-03 9:56:17 AM  

WFern: AeAe: Honest question.. Do Christians have an explanation for why God exists?

Fixed.

At least atheism doesn't hold any pretension on the matter. We don't know and don't pretend to. It's arrogant to assume you know the reason for the existence of the universe, and the fact that you don't realize that says a lot about you.


So wait, this is ironic right? That he assumes so much about the poster. I myself, pretty much an atheist, was wondering the same thing a while ago. I'm not all that science minded and honestly didn't know if they'd come up with an idea. The whole reason I feel like it's pretty stupid to call religious people retards, and don't act like you haven't, is because we seem to be more or less at a loss too. Yes, we, as humans, know a lot about the Universe. AS HUMANS. Atheist does not equal scientist. Christians know, and a large majority accept, those things too. I'd say the real fight is over this one question that neither side really has an answer for.

SO! In all honesty, I too would have liked to know if some scientist out there has presented an idea. But no one read this...carry on.
 
2010-03-03 9:56:25 AM  

Smidge204: What you call "Militant atheists" by way of Stalin et al. are more accurately described as ruthless demagogues who happen to profess atheism. You need to prove a causal link exists between atheism and the atrocities in question.


ruthlessly eliminating or oppressing anyone who opposes your atheistic philosophical views as an integral part of your political and social philosophy?

is that cause enough?

/or do you need to play another round of "no true Scotsman atheist"
 
2010-03-03 9:59:23 AM  

SleepyMcGee: But at what point is there a distinction between 'why' and 'how?' 'Why is the sky blue' can be explained with a scientific answer. I'm not trying to nitpick at language, but if one is going to make the distinction between 'how' and 'why' and questions, where does this distinction lie?


Well, I suppose when one asks "how," one wants to know the mechanism that makes the process work. But when one asks "why," one wants to know the purpose or reason behind the process.


SleepyMcGee: /general question to anyone, I know you didn't bring it up
//but I'm sure you have a related Stormtrooper image :)


"Why is the sky blue? Because, that's why!"
i224.photobucket.comView Full Size
 
2010-03-03 10:00:03 AM  

Jard01: Sun God: sgnilward: The objection isn't to Atheism,

Actually, that's pretty much the objection.

I have never met an atheist who didn't believe in Luck, Karma, Reincarnation, Spiritual Healing, Yoga, Vitamins, Chi, Yin, and/or Yang.

They usually just say they don't believe in the Christian idea of The Holy Trinity.

Hi, I'm an atheist and I don't believe in any of the things you listed.


I missed that post. I don't believe in any of those either, except vitamins. Was this a trick question?

If you don't believe in vitamins, I would love for you to cut everything containing vitamin C from your diet. We'll see if scurvy can convince you otherwise.
 
2010-03-03 10:01:48 AM  

s2s2s2: Klingon Penis: One atheist proselytized. We aren't all directed to by an ancient book. subby fail.

One guy in one story must only mean that this is the only guy. That is some some serious deducing, pal.


It was a reply to the headline, which made the same "serious deducing", PAL.

s2s2s2: Some people will feel a need to gather in support of a belief in something they can't prove(no god) replacing a belief in something they can't prove(god).


Again with the "some people". You must watch a a lot of Fox News. Atheists (the smarter ones, at least) know they can't prove or disprove the existence of a god. The goal is to have an agnostic world, where people aren't threatened by the existence of another belief system to the point of hating and killing them.
 
2010-03-03 10:03:17 AM  

JerseyTim: Is this for real? This has never happened to me ever. Is this just a regional thing? Are the people of New Jersey too far gone Jewish to be saved?

 
2010-03-03 10:03:51 AM  

jxb465: Jard01: Sun God: sgnilward: The objection isn't to Atheism,

Actually, that's pretty much the objection.

I have never met an atheist who didn't believe in Luck, Karma, Reincarnation, Spiritual Healing, Yoga, Vitamins, Chi, Yin, and/or Yang.

They usually just say they don't believe in the Christian idea of The Holy Trinity.

Hi, I'm an atheist and I don't believe in any of the things you listed.

I missed that post. I don't believe in any of those either, except vitamins. Was this a trick question?

If you don't believe in vitamins, I would love for you to cut everything containing vitamin C from your diet. We'll see if scurvy can convince you otherwise.


And yoga is just stretching and isometrics. It exists, whether you believe in it or not. I've been to classes. Got a mat, and everything.
 
2010-03-03 10:04:45 AM  

So, to recap:

Christianity + Communism = atrocities.
Atheism + Communism = atrocities.
Christianity alone = no atrocities.
Atheism alone = no atrocities.

It's the ideological element, (and specifically the reliance upon and promotion of faith) that seems to be the poison element here.

Lessee.... quoted from there that 20 million died. "Most of the death was attributed to plague and famine." Stalin was 10-20 million... not naturally-occurring deaths either (mass murders were common under Stalin alone). Link (new window)

Militant Atheism is real, just as hideous as Militants in other religions. This is all I point out.

As far a Christianity alone causing atrocities, the Bible just sitting there would kill anyone. Course drop one from a building and it could hurt someone, but then, drop any book from a certain height, and that too can hurt. ;)

"It is true that it's possible that religion can produce evil, and generally when we look closer at the detail it produces evil because the individual people are actually living in a rejection of the tenets of Christianity and a rejection of the God that they are supposed to be following. So it can produce it, but the historical fact is that outright rejection of God and institutionalizing of atheism actually does produce evil on incredible levels. We're talking about tens of millions of people as a result of the rejection of God." - Gregory Koukl

/just a quote I saw, have tons of them ;)

Christianity alone causes no atrocities?
Link (new window)
wonder how you got that idea?
 
2010-03-03 10:04:47 AM  

Klingon Penis: It was a reply to the headline, which made the same "serious deducing", PAL.


I'm not your pal, buddy!
 
2010-03-03 10:05:28 AM  

jxb465: Jard01: Sun God: sgnilward: The objection isn't to Atheism,

Actually, that's pretty much the objection.

I have never met an atheist who didn't believe in Luck, Karma, Reincarnation, Spiritual Healing, Yoga, Vitamins, Chi, Yin, and/or Yang.

They usually just say they don't believe in the Christian idea of The Holy Trinity.

Hi, I'm an atheist and I don't believe in any of the things you listed.

I missed that post. I don't believe in any of those either, except vitamins. Was this a trick question?

If you don't believe in vitamins, I would love for you to cut everything containing vitamin C from your diet. We'll see if scurvy can convince you otherwise.


Oh wow, my eyes skipped right over vitamins. Ok I do believe in vitamins. I also know that yoga is an exercise routine that helps make women supper bendy... which is nice.
 
2010-03-03 10:06:32 AM  
I always asked why should I accept a zombie who claimed he was descendant of some king of a third rate nation that wasn't even a blip on world super power ranking as my savior.
 
2010-03-03 10:06:45 AM  

Jard01: jxb465: Jard01: Sun God: sgnilward: The objection isn't to Atheism,

Actually, that's pretty much the objection.

I have never met an atheist who didn't believe in Luck, Karma, Reincarnation, Spiritual Healing, Yoga, Vitamins, Chi, Yin, and/or Yang.

They usually just say they don't believe in the Christian idea of The Holy Trinity.

Hi, I'm an atheist and I don't believe in any of the things you listed.

I missed that post. I don't believe in any of those either, except vitamins. Was this a trick question?

If you don't believe in vitamins, I would love for you to cut everything containing vitamin C from your diet. We'll see if scurvy can convince you otherwise.

Oh wow, my eyes skipped right over vitamins. Ok I do believe in vitamins. I also know that yoga is an exercise routine that helps make women supper bendy... which is nice.


super...

/looked right at it when I clicked add
 
2010-03-03 10:06:54 AM  

Sun God: I have never met an atheist who didn't believe in Luck, Karma, Reincarnation, Spiritual Healing, Yoga, Vitamins, Chi, Yin, and/or Yang.


I bet you have. First of all, I bet you're lying. Second of all, you've met a lot more atheists than you think. Most Atheists don't wear little atheist necklaces and pins. Most of my coworkers and extended family members didn't know that I was an atheist until they asked.
 
2010-03-03 10:07:35 AM  
As a working adult, the topic of religion rarely comes up in my day to day life. I don't hold any religious beliefs but I celebrate the secular aspects of Christmas, and if I'm a guest ay someone's house and they pray before they eat, I'll say "amen". I guess I'm an atheist but I don't feel a need to fellowship with other atheists or anything.

/find it very peculiar that most outspoken atheists I've encountered seem to be just anti-Christian more than non-religious.
 
2010-03-03 10:08:24 AM  

Altourus: So, to recap: My argument isn't strong enough when judged by its words, so I will highlight it by making the entire thing a blue link.


translated.
 
2010-03-03 10:08:59 AM  

Klingon Penis: Again with the "some people". You must watch a a lot of Fox News. Atheists (the smarter ones, at least) know they can't prove or disprove the existence of a god. The goal is to have an agnostic world, where people aren't threatened by the existence of another belief system to the point of hating and killing them.


Nice cherry picking. I watch Fox News because there was a local access show dedicated to spreading atheism?
To answer, no; I don't watch FOX News. The headline is not saying more than one do, it's saying that more none don't.
 
2010-03-03 10:09:01 AM  

jxb465: I would suggest you look back at all the supposed religious atrocities. You might find that there are reasons beyond religion for these atrocities and that religion is the excuse given.


Atheism holds no tenants, doctrines or principles, and can't be used as a lever to motivate people. You have to find something else to mix in to get people to act on it. Political activism, for example. But political activism by itself is enough (see: Teabaggers).


Religion does have the power, in and of itself, to motivate people. So even if the motivations of those pulling the strings was not religious, if they used religion as a social lever to get others to play along then religion is still culpable.

Are you going to deny that there are no cases where religious belief was instrumental in some atrocity?

kerpal32: Even if it did, we'd just continue to have more questions.


You say that like it's a bad thing...


kerpal32: Does the universe and existence have a creator, and/or are there aspects of reality and existence that extend beyond "physical nature".


If there are aspects of existence that extend beyond "physical nature" - What consequences does that have?
=Smidge=
 
2010-03-03 10:09:35 AM  

Smarshmallow: Altourus: So, to recap: My argument isn't strong enough when judged by its words, so I will highlight it by making the entire thing a blue link.

translated.


Accidentally deleted his name and the closing link that every quote has when I tried to trim his comment.
 
2010-03-03 10:10:38 AM  

Altourus: Smarshmallow: Altourus: So, to recap: My argument isn't strong enough when judged by its words, so I will highlight it by making the entire thing a blue link.

translated.

Accidentally deleted his name and the closing link that every quote has when I tried to trim his comment.


Oh, alright, no harm then.
 
2010-03-03 10:11:06 AM  
I have no problem with religion, but the dumb asses that believe in creationism and ignore sciences like radiometric dating with out having any science background or education just make me disregard anything the say as fact.

Like the preacher who tries to parallel the three horned chameleon to the triceratops? He claims if you let the chameleon live 900 years it will grow into the same size as a triceratops.

Then you have the whole scientific study on the genome, and the genome comparison of ours versus an Ape. We have 1 less pair of chromosomes than our Ape counter-parts but they have proven that our 1 less pair was due to them merging into one chromosome.
 
2010-03-03 10:11:59 AM  

AeAe: Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it.


Why do we need an explanation for why we exist? We do. Isn't that enough? I'd rather not have an answer than make something up.

If you must have an answer, why isn't "We don't know? good enough? It's a perfectly legitimate answer.

Why is making up an answer better? Why is accepting an answer made up by ancient goat herders better? How is going to war over differing opinions about it better? How is shutting off your brain and stopping looking for answers because you have something that sounds good and makes you feel all warm and fuzzy and loved inside better?
 
2010-03-03 10:13:22 AM  
Not so long ago there was a thread on fark, about some knuckleheads who left a crude wooden cross at a site dedicated to Paganism.

Oh verily the sand did flow from the vaginas in that thread, and the butt hurt from the Fark Atheist Cabal did echo throughout the internet that day my friends.
 
2010-03-03 10:14:00 AM  

zamboni: Why do we need an explanation for why we exist? We do. Isn't that enough? I'd rather not have an answer than make something up.

If you must have an answer, why isn't "We don't know? good enough? It's a perfectly legitimate answer.

Why is making up an answer better? Why is accepting an answer made up by ancient goat herders better? How is going to war over differing opinions about it better? How is shutting off your brain and stopping looking for answers because you have something that sounds good and makes you feel all warm and fuzzy and loved inside better?



How is shutting off your brain and stopping looking for answers because "it's enough that we do" any better?
 
2010-03-03 10:14:01 AM  
Yeah OK this guy stepped over the line. People should be able to go into their prayer room at the airport and not be bothered by materials placed there deliberately to offend -- no matter his protests to the contrary.

On behalf of all nonbelievers everywhere, I sincerely apologize for this man's behavior.

\atheist
 
2010-03-03 10:14:02 AM  

Altourus: wonder how you got that idea?


Because we all know Jesus was a big supporter of torture. Did you also know the United States drops bombs on people's houses in the name of freedom and peacekeeping? Fyi, there's something called "propaganda", look it up before you open your moronic hole.
 
2010-03-03 10:14:22 AM  

Smidge204: jxb465: I would suggest you look back at all the supposed religious atrocities. You might find that there are reasons beyond religion for these atrocities and that religion is the excuse given.

Atheism holds no tenants, doctrines or principles, and can't be used as a lever to motivate people. You have to find something else to mix in to get people to act on it. Political activism, for example. But political activism by itself is enough (see: Teabaggers).


Religion does have the power, in and of itself, to motivate people. So even if the motivations of those pulling the strings was not religious, if they used religion as a social lever to get others to play along then religion is still culpable.

Are you going to deny that there are no cases where religious belief was instrumental in some atrocity?

kerpal32: Even if it did, we'd just continue to have more questions.

You say that like it's a bad thing...


kerpal32: Does the universe and existence have a creator, and/or are there aspects of reality and existence that extend beyond "physical nature".

If there are aspects of existence that extend beyond "physical nature" - What consequences does that have?
=Smidge=


Deny is such an ugly word, and yes, I am. Name one and I'll give you the real reason behind it. And don't say the Inquisition, the Crusades, or the Holocaust, they are too easy.
 
2010-03-03 10:14:52 AM  

Klingon Penis: Atheists (the smarter ones, at least)


I'm sure from now on when you speak of Christians you will only be speaking about the smarter ones.
 
2010-03-03 10:17:13 AM  

People_are_Idiots: Militant Atheism is real, just as hideous as Militants in other religions. This is all I point out.


please, cite examples.
maybe a program length commercial that airs on cable where the person is foaming at the mouth?
perhaps something militant that happened? bombing?

militant infers military - organized force.

/u fail
 
2010-03-03 10:17:38 AM  

zamboni: How is shutting off your brain and stopping looking for answers because you have something that sounds good and makes you feel all warm and fuzzy and loved inside better


Because when you shut off one part of your brain, you can re-direct other parts to improve upon.
Suck at solving the mysteries of the Cosmos, but good at repairing cars? Believe in something about the 'great answers', but make cars better. It's the American Way tm
 
2010-03-03 10:17:53 AM  

jxb465: Deny is such an ugly word, and yes, I am. Name one and I'll give you the real reason behind it. And don't say the Inquisition, the Crusades, or the Holocaust, they are too easy.


The Inquisition, the Crusades, and the Holocaust.
 
2010-03-03 10:18:26 AM  
from the article....

"...Harry Taylor is accused of placing a series of "grossly abusive and insulting" photographs and cartoons depicting Christian and Muslim figures in the multi-faith room at Liverpool's John Lennon airport.

The 59-year-old admits the controversial images were "all his own work".

But he told Liverpool crown court he was just practising his own religion of "reason and rationality" in the hope of converting people to atheism.
"

irony.
 
2010-03-03 10:18:49 AM  

Jard01: jxb465: Jard01: Sun God: sgnilward: The objection isn't to Atheism,

Actually, that's pretty much the objection.

I have never met an atheist who didn't believe in Luck, Karma, Reincarnation, Spiritual Healing, Yoga, Vitamins, Chi, Yin, and/or Yang.

They usually just say they don't believe in the Christian idea of The Holy Trinity.

Hi, I'm an atheist and I don't believe in any of the things you listed.

I missed that post. I don't believe in any of those either, except vitamins. Was this a trick question?

If you don't believe in vitamins, I would love for you to cut everything containing vitamin C from your diet. We'll see if scurvy can convince you otherwise.

Oh wow, my eyes skipped right over vitamins. Ok I do believe in vitamins. I also know that yoga is an exercise routine that helps make women supper bendy... which is nice.


Well I admit I did the same thing with yoga. It does have a spiritual side which I don't believe in, but it definitely has positive physical benefits too.
 
2010-03-03 10:19:32 AM  
There's a problem with writing things that might insult or offend someone?

No more Fark, then.
 
2010-03-03 10:20:32 AM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Altourus: wonder how you got that idea?

Because we all know Jesus was a big supporter of torture. Did you also know the United States drops bombs on people's houses in the name of freedom and peacekeeping? Fyi, there's something called "propaganda", look it up before you open your moronic hole.


So the fake ideals created by the organization which claims to be the sole source of authority on their given religion are not considered main stream thought? I'm curious as to why you feel the ideals of the church 2 millennia ago has more merit then the church 500 years ago? They used the same basic framework of myth to get their believers to do what they wanted. It's not like one was more "Christian" then the other. They were both Christianity in its fullest. The church says tomorrow that its unchristian to wear hats, do you know what the definition of Christianity will be? Those people with silly beliefs that don't wear hats.
 
2010-03-03 10:22:58 AM  

Inflatable Rhetoric: There's a problem with writing things that might insult or offend someone?

No more Fark, then.


Yes actually, there is.

Here is a basic primer:

Link (new window)
 
2010-03-03 10:23:41 AM  

s2s2s2: Klingon Penis: Atheists (the smarter ones, at least)

I'm sure from now on when you speak of Christians you will only be speaking about the smarter ones.


I know plenty of smart Christians. Can't say I'd count you among them.
 
2010-03-03 10:24:20 AM  

jxb465: Deny is such an ugly word, and yes, I am. Name one and I'll give you the real reason behind it. And don't say the Inquisition, the Crusades, or the Holocaust, they are too easy.



Fair enough I suppose.

What was the real, non-religiously motivated reason for ritualistic human sacrifice by the Aztecs? Included in this is not just the act itself, but the continued tolerance of such acts by the public.

Provide citations where necessary, of course.
=Smidge=
 
2010-03-03 10:24:52 AM  

jxb465: Well I admit I did the same thing with yoga. It does have a spiritual side which I don't believe in, but it definitely has positive physical benefits too.


Well, it's somewhere between cardio and stretching, so it's got that.
 
2010-03-03 10:26:47 AM  

People_are_Idiots: ninjakirby: mamoru: 1.) The guy in TFA is a complete asshat.
2.) There are far more religious proselytizers and there are atheist ones.
3.) #2 in no way diminishes #1.

Preach it baby.

Also, I have the feeling this thread is gonna need this:

And on the same token, here:

/anyone ever really hurt by praying?
//know Pat Roberson wishes it did... ;)
///thinks militant ANYTHING is wrong. Just lay off my faith, I lay off yours.
////btw, how's the wife and kids?
//SLASHIES!!!



Not by the act of praying itself, but believing all that B.S. That has and continues to result in abortion clinic bombings, killing of doctors, etc....

It also leads to people thinking they know better than I on how I should live my life, whether I should be able to purchase a beer on Sunday. And, the scary part is most don't think that people who support blue laws are militant.

Same goes for those who attempt to force religion into pubic schools and mess with science courses to teach young earth B.S. when it has zero basis in fact.

/I will take my hands off your faith when you stop trying to force it down my throat and you pray in private as instructed by Matthew 6:6 (new window).
 
2010-03-03 10:27:07 AM  
i48.tinypic.comView Full Size
 
2010-03-03 10:31:11 AM  
JeffreyScott Likes All Caps and Bold

Whoa dude, bringing the immense power of Caps Lock/Bold to the thread.

Good on you! So easy to ignore that way, good job!
 
2010-03-03 10:31:54 AM  

Smarshmallow: jxb465: Deny is such an ugly word, and yes, I am. Name one and I'll give you the real reason behind it. And don't say the Inquisition, the Crusades, or the Holocaust, they are too easy.

The Inquisition, the Crusades, and the Holocaust.


I said not those three, but I should have expected it.

The Inquisition was used as a way to unify the Spanish people. Spain would likely have been assimilated by its neighbors and would not it exist today had it not used the Inquisition to unify.

The Crusades were an attempt by the Catholic church to unify all of Europe under their rule as well as to extend their territory. It was a power grab and not at all surprising when looking at the Catholic church as a whole.

Hitler used Jews as a scapegoat for everything wrong in Germany. Why? Because he needed a scapegoat and minority religions are usually the easiest targets. If it had not been religion, it would have been something else.

Care to present me with something I'll actually have to research?
 
2010-03-03 10:32:30 AM  

jxb465: I think you are having this same problem.

Personally, I don't give a damn about your religion. The only god that exists is the conceptual one which differs for every person. Ever wonder why no two people ever agree on every religious issue? It's because their concepts of god differ. Because of this conceptualization, god basically is an extension of your unconscious mind. Believing that god is real doesn't fundamentally change who you are, rather who you are determines whether you believe in god and the characteristics of that god.

In addition, god is a rather inconsequential part of religion. Religion is more about joining a group of people that think the same way you do. God or atheist, people are going to form groups with ideas, opinions, morals that differ from those of other groups. The more different the people in the groups are, the more different the gods will be.

The belief in god is a process of evolution. Society as a whole, if it keeps advancing technologically, will likely evolve beyond religion. Regardless, groups will continue to form based on other criteria. Even the writers at South Park understand this simple concept.


Regarding the bold point, I most certainly do, as I am human, just like everyone else in this thread.

I suppose if we're looking for a soundbite, it would be "people can be assholes regardless of religious affiliation or belief (or lack thereof). Believing or not believing does not make one an asshole. It's how you vocalize or express those beliefs (or lack thereof) that makes you a cool person or an asshole".

Based on the law of averages, there is an equal proportion of assholes for each religious affiliation.
 
2010-03-03 10:32:54 AM  

halfof33: JeffreyScott Likes All Caps and Bold

Whoa dude, bringing the immense power of Caps Lock/Bold to the thread.

Good on you! So easy to ignore that way, good job!


arrgh, turned my Billy Mays Key off! I did not bring the full Power of this fully fuctioning Caps Lock key to bear on you puny Farkers.
 
2010-03-03 10:34:41 AM  
I don't know if I will claim to be an atheist anymore. There seem to be a lot of douchebags using that label lately.
 
2010-03-03 10:37:20 AM  

Smidge204: kerpal32: Even if it did, we'd just continue to have more questions.

You say that like it's a bad thing...


no, you simply assume because I'm not an atheist and have beliefs that extend beyond science I must think that's a bad thing. False dichotomy is false dichotomy. Even the ones you create (based on your own beliefs).


Smidge204: kerpal32: Does the universe and existence have a creator, and/or are there aspects of reality and existence that extend beyond "physical nature".

If there are aspects of existence that extend beyond "physical nature" - What consequences does that have?
=Smidge=


There are many implications. Not sure about any consequences though. Want to start with aspects of reality that extend beyond physical nature? Or do you want to just run back over to science, wrap yourself in dogma and ask for empirical evidence and get that part out of the way early?

love the semantic games you play. Want to toss in "outside" while you're at it?
 
2010-03-03 10:38:15 AM  

halfof33: Inflatable Rhetoric: There's a problem with writing things that might insult or offend someone?

No more Fark, then.

Yes actually, there is.

Here is a basic primer:

Link (new window)


OK, then. Everyone back away from your keyboards, and turn off the lights.
 
2010-03-03 10:39:33 AM  

CrankMyBlueSax: I don't know if I will claim to be an atheist anymore. There seem to be a lot of douchebags using that label lately.


I'll just say I'm not interested in god(s). Will that work?
I'll be an apatheticist.
 
2010-03-03 10:40:53 AM  
Civilized discussion about religion:

A: I don't think God exists.
B: I do, and here's why....

Fark discussion about religion:

A: I don't think God exists.
B: Atheists are douchebags and Atheism is a religion!
 
2010-03-03 10:41:26 AM  
I'm going to leave this original question up here:
Are you going to deny that there are no cases where religious belief was instrumental in some atrocity?

jxb465:
The Inquisition was used as a way to unify the Spanish people. Spain would likely have been assimilated by its neighbors and would not it exist today had it not used the Inquisition to unify.

That doesn't mean that religious belief wasn't instrumental to the atrocity. The Inqusition was run by the clergy, with the express intent of forcing people to convert.

Even if the leaders of the movement had purely political plans in mind (a concept that they certainly didn't confess to), there's no indication that the people on the ground floor, committing the atrocities, were motivated by anything but their religious beliefs.

jxb465: The Crusades were an attempt by the Catholic church to unify all of Europe under their rule as well as to extend their territory. It was a power grab and not at all surprising when looking at the Catholic church as a whole.


Again, the people at the top may have had political motivations, but the rallying calls were all about religious faith. The recruiting was all religious. The fact is that for the average man on the ground, the motivation was religious. Without that mob, like the inquisition, the atrocity never would have occurred.

jxb465: Hitler used Jews as a scapegoat for everything wrong in Germany. Why? Because he needed a scapegoat and minority religions are usually the easiest targets. If it had not been religion, it would have been something else.


Coulda', woulda', shooda' been something else, but it was religion. Religion motivated people to accept such atrocities. Whether Hitler wanted them dead for political reasons isn't important. The population of Germany allowed them to happen because of religion.
 
2010-03-03 10:42:08 AM  

Inflatable Rhetoric: OK, then. Everyone back away from your keyboards, and turn off the lights.


Well, I actually have not perfected the punch in the face over the internet yet, so you are good for now.
 
2010-03-03 10:46:11 AM  

halfof33: Inflatable Rhetoric: OK, then. Everyone back away from your keyboards, and turn off the lights.

Well, I actually have not perfected the punch in the face over the internet yet, so you are good for now.


I find that offensive. Who do I call?

PS I'm switching from atheist to apatheticist.
 
2010-03-03 10:47:12 AM  

DrewFL: We'd like to share the good news of nothing with you!


Some Atheists are Nihilists.
All Nihilists are Atheists.
Therefore, All Atheists are Nihilists?
 
2010-03-03 10:47:18 AM  

give me doughnuts: Klingon Penis: It was a reply to the headline, which made the same "serious deducing", PAL.

I'm not your pal, buddy!


[image from z.about.com too old to be available]
Approves

/wrong scene, but my google-fu is weak
 
2010-03-03 10:49:46 AM  

GilRuiz1: How is shutting off your brain and stopping looking for answers because "it's enough that we do" any better?


Point --->·

Your head ---> *_*
 
2010-03-03 10:50:04 AM  

FishyFred: As opposed to the insulting Chick tracts, Bible verses, and pamphlets you can get from religious folks. Those are miles more offensive than anything this guy made.


I've gotten on separate occasions from different groups; a business card for their church website and a copy of the baghavad gita w/ vegetarian cook book. I didn't find either one offensive, in fact the cookbook was pretty cool and the business card seems tame and respectful.
 
2010-03-03 10:51:19 AM  

Martian_Astronomer: Civilized discussion about religion:

A: I don't think God exists.
B: I do, and here's why....

Fark discussion about religion:

A: I don't think God exists.
B: Atheists are douchebags and Atheism is a religion!


Heh...+1. These threads are always the same. They start the
same, they end the same; nobody changes their opinions. And
then people like you come in to point this out and someone like
me agrees that it's always the same.

It's always the same.
 
2010-03-03 10:51:30 AM  

Altourus: So the fake ideals created by the organization which claims to be the sole source of authority on their given religion are not considered main stream thought? I'm curious as to why you feel the ideals of the church 2 millennia ago has more merit then the church 500 years ago? They used the same basic framework of myth to get their believers to do what they wanted. It's not like one was more "Christian" then the other. They were both Christianity in its fullest. The church says tomorrow that its unchristian to wear hats, do you know what the definition of Christianity will be? Those people with silly beliefs that don't wear hats.


How do I know you still don't understand propaganda? If Jesus, who is the foundation and example of Christianity who harmed nobody at any time ever, is diametrically opposed to a government that tortures and kills "in his name", you really need someone to tell you if they are not doing so by the precepts of Christianity? Did you completely miss the point that governments can and will use any common view of a society to make that society acquire more power and influence for the ruling class?
 
Ant
2010-03-03 10:52:15 AM  

Did I spell this correctly: You guys are saying atheists don't do what?


Atheists are just as retarded as other religious folk. Enjoy your religion.


Telling people that they are not alone in their disbelief is proselytizing now? When did this happen?
 
2010-03-03 10:54:01 AM  

jxb465: Smarshmallow: jxb465: Deny is such an ugly word, and yes, I am. Name one and I'll give you the real reason behind it. And don't say the Inquisition, the Crusades, or the Holocaust, they are too easy.

The Inquisition, the Crusades, and the Holocaust.

I said not those three, but I should have expected it.

The Inquisition was used as a way to unify the Spanish people. Spain would likely have been assimilated by its neighbors and would not it exist today had it not used the Inquisition to unify.

The Crusades were an attempt by the Catholic church to unify all of Europe under their rule as well as to extend their territory. It was a power grab and not at all surprising when looking at the Catholic church as a whole.

Hitler used Jews as a scapegoat for everything wrong in Germany. Why? Because he needed a scapegoat and minority religions are usually the easiest targets. If it had not been religion, it would have been something else.

Care to present me with something I'll actually have to research?


You may want to go back and research the Inquisition and the Crusades.
 
2010-03-03 10:54:07 AM  

Inflatable Rhetoric: I find that offensive. Who do I call?


Cripes, I'm working as fast as I can...

In the meantime, we at the Internet Justice For People on the Internet (IPJI) strongly recommend the use of a crow bar. Self Administer to face, please repeat as often as necessary.

We also recommend application at least twice before entering Fark Politics tag
 
2010-03-03 10:55:41 AM  

kerpal32: Want to start with aspects of reality that extend beyond physical nature?


Sure. Tell me something about anything that extends beyond physical nature. We've been down this road before, of course, so maybe I will just get right to the question I've really been asking (and you've been avoiding) all along:

If not empirically, through what means do you acquire knowledge?

I would expect an honest answer to be somewhat succinct and direct. ie: if you come back with "Mary's room" or similar I will interpret that as a wholly dishonest attempt to avoid the question. I'm asking how do you come to know something if not through experience of some kind.


kerpal32: There are many implications. Not sure about any consequences though.


There are implications but no consequences? At least you concede there might not be any consequences resulting from the existence of something beyond physical nature.

This is interesting, because it has been my position that anything that might exist beyond physical nature is inconsequential. It sounds like we're on the verge of agreeing!
=Smidge=
 
2010-03-03 10:55:48 AM  

bilbo douchebaggins: It's always the same.


It is not the same.

/there! where is your God theory NOW?
/I've run circles around you logically.
 
2010-03-03 10:55:58 AM  

bilbo douchebaggins: Martian_Astronomer: Civilized discussion about religion:

A: I don't think God exists.
B: I do, and here's why....

Fark discussion about religion:

A: I don't think God exists.
B: Atheists are douchebags and Atheism is a religion!

Heh...+1. These threads are always the same. They start the
same, they end the same; nobody changes their opinions. And
then people like you come in to point this out and someone like
me agrees that it's always the same.

It's always the same.


It's like, even when we try not to be, we're all just cogs in the machine, man...woah...
 
2010-03-03 10:57:49 AM  

alfuso: I'm a Born Again Agnostic.

Tried to be a Pagan, but it's too organized.

I don't like Middle Men.


img98.imageshack.usView Full Size
 
2010-03-03 10:58:39 AM  
Richard Dawkins is an "evangelical atheist!" He is constantly seeking to convert. Atheists have just as much faith as theists.
 
2010-03-03 11:00:35 AM  

Klingon Penis: s2s2s2: Klingon Penis: Atheists (the smarter ones, at least)

I'm sure from now on when you speak of Christians you will only be speaking about the smarter ones.

I know plenty of smart Christians. Can't say I'd count you among them.


Correct. You can't. I imagine it has more to do with your ability to count. You don't understand the grammar in the headline, you think the term "some people" is an indicator of what television some people watch, and you assume a person is a Christian because they know the word.

Serious deducing, Pal.
 
2010-03-03 11:01:46 AM  
To my fellow athiests...


... don't hate the playahs...

hate the game...


A doesn't equal A if you continually refuse to agree.
 
2010-03-03 11:02:04 AM  

give me doughnuts: You may want to go back and research the Inquisition and the Crusades.


Yeah, sorry, insulting me isn't going to work. If I'm missing something though, feel free to show me.

You have failed to show that there are no cases where religious belief was instrumental in some atrocity, as you said you would.

In the Crusades, the Holocaust and the Inquisition, the masses were motivated by religion, so yes, it was instrumental.
 
2010-03-03 11:04:00 AM  

Theaetetus: chemical_angel:
Your line of questioning has already outed YOU as the heretic.

You are the ones who are ball lickers. Were gonna fark your mothers while you watch and cry like little whiney bithces. Once we get to Hollywood and find those Miramax farks who are making that movie, were gonna make them eat our shiat, then shiat out our shiat and then eat their shiat thats made up of our shiat that we made em eat, and then all you motherfarks are next.


You're 7 or 8, aren't you?

Does mommy know you're using the computer?
 
2010-03-03 11:04:07 AM  

Jungblood: As a working adult, the topic of religion rarely comes up in my day to day life. I don't hold any religious beliefs but I celebrate the secular aspects of Christmas, and if I'm a guest ay someone's house and they pray before they eat, I'll say "amen". I guess I'm an atheist but I don't feel a need to fellowship with other atheists or anything.

/find it very peculiar that most outspoken atheists I've encountered seem to be just anti-Christian more than non-religious.


Who let a reasonable person in this thread? Have him removed immediately!!!!
 
2010-03-03 11:07:25 AM  

ninjakirby: mamoru: Whatever. It's obvious that WE are the ones following the one, TRUE lack-of-Faith! YOU people! I find your lack-of-Faith disturbing!

No joke, I had someone on a local google.group tell me "and you call yourself an atheist" because I corrected them on some theological point they were abusing.

It was an experience.


Religious warfare amongst the atheists? Its more likely than you think.
 
2010-03-03 11:10:44 AM  

AeAe: Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it.


/matter happens
 
2010-03-03 11:12:10 AM  

DrewFL: The Turkish use their insatiable love of cotton swabs to unite and motivate the people.


If they had a sizable cotton industry, that would actually be feasible.
 
2010-03-03 11:12:26 AM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: Altourus: So the fake ideals created by the organization which claims to be the sole source of authority on their given religion are not considered main stream thought? I'm curious as to why you feel the ideals of the church 2 millennia ago has more merit then the church 500 years ago? They used the same basic framework of myth to get their believers to do what they wanted. It's not like one was more "Christian" then the other. They were both Christianity in its fullest. The church says tomorrow that its unchristian to wear hats, do you know what the definition of Christianity will be? Those people with silly beliefs that don't wear hats.

How do I know you still don't understand propaganda? If Jesus, who is the foundation and example of Christianity who harmed nobody at any time ever, is diametrically opposed to a government that tortures and kills "in his name", you really need someone to tell you if they are not doing so by the precepts of Christianity? Did you completely miss the point that governments can and will use any common view of a society to make that society acquire more power and influence for the ruling class?


How do I know you still don't get my point? Because your talking about the story of Jesus like he's a real person. His story is a living and changing thing. So if yesterday it meant looking after your neighbours but today means convert your neighbours by the sword, it does not mean one view point is any more of a valid description then the other.
 
MIU
2010-03-03 11:12:26 AM  

AeAe: Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it.


Most of us are honest enough to admit that we (mankind) don't have all the answers, though we are trying to figure things out. (That's science's job.)
 
2010-03-03 11:13:22 AM  

nerdoverlord: To my fellow athiests...


I'm athier than you could ever be.
 
2010-03-03 11:13:28 AM  

Smidge204: kerpal32: Want to start with aspects of reality that extend beyond physical nature?

Sure. Tell me something about anything that extends beyond physical nature. We've been down this road before, of course, so maybe I will just get right to the question I've really been asking (and you've been avoiding) all along:

If not empirically, through what means do you acquire knowledge?

I would expect an honest answer to be somewhat succinct and direct. ie: if you come back with "Mary's room" or similar I will interpret that as a wholly dishonest attempt to avoid the question. I'm asking how do you come to know something if not through experience of some kind.


yes,and I given you honest answers, and provided you with multiple examples, (many originating from various schools of thought under here) and ultimately it falls back to you ignoring and rejecting an other view based on your beliefs in metaphysical naturalism and asking for empirical evidence based on your own beliefs.

which in and of itself is pretty amusing, since you cannot admit you simply have a belief which cannot be proven empirically.

we also discussed distinctions in views of reality (which I consider to include everything that is, whether or not it is observable or comprehensible ), different types of experience, phenomenology, concepts regarding nature as emergent phenomenon as part of a more complex system, what defines knowledge and different schools of thought on that, and many other rational components around epistemology, including the fact that not everyone believes in strict evidentialism and justificationism, including a number of people who helped define scientific method and the philosophy of science during the later half of the last century and even today.

Sadly, you didn't contribute "dick" to the discussion other than saying "no it isn't".

i2.photobucket.com

sorry, but an honest debate or even just an honest discussion requires you to also be honest. something you're unwilling to do.
 
2010-03-03 11:13:57 AM  
I wonder what is more offensive; Showing a picture defaming Christianity using references to their dirty past, or telling people that if they don't believe in god they will be tortured for all of eternity?
 
2010-03-03 11:16:11 AM  
 
2010-03-03 11:19:43 AM  

Jungblood: As a working adult, the topic of religion rarely comes up in my day to day life. I don't hold any religious beliefs but I celebrate the secular aspects of Christmas, and if I'm a guest ay someone's house and they pray before they eat, I'll say "amen". I guess I'm an atheist but I don't feel a need to fellowship with other atheists or anything.

/find it very peculiar that most outspoken atheists I've encountered seem to be just anti-Christian more than non-religious.


In this country.

Think that might have something to do with the incredible amount of influence the Christians want to exert over your day-to-day life here as opposed to other religions?

You say religion doesn't come up in the course of your day, but it does. What curriculum your children are taught in school, what day of the week you can buy alcohol, what words you can say in public, what scientific pursuits get funding.... all these examples and tons more are the direct result of pressure by religious groups on government. Christian religious groups.

You don't see Buddhists trying to pass mandatory Zen Garden laws or Hindi trying to ban McDonald's or whatever, maybe that's why we don't care so much about them.

If they'd STFU and leave the laws alone, I wouldn't even care if they want to continue to proselytize everywhere. They could even keep that bullshiat tax exemption that other writers of fiction like Marvel or Universal Studios don't get. Go ahead and try to sell your bullshiat story, I hear it helps some people. But anytime it begins to affect me, kindly eat my balls.
 
2010-03-03 11:20:38 AM  

iadonyn: Showing a picture defaming Christianity using references to their dirty past, or telling people that if they don't believe in god they will be tortured for all of eternity?


Oh, I know, I know!! Asking leading, loaded questions designed to offend the intelligence of anyone reading them?

What do I win?
 
2010-03-03 11:23:22 AM  

halfof33: iadonyn: Showing a picture defaming Christianity using references to their dirty past, or telling people that if they don't believe in god they will be tortured for all of eternity?

Oh, I know, I know!! Asking leading, loaded questions designed to offend the intelligence of anyone reading them?

What do I win?


Here's all you need to know:

Religion = Superstition + $$$$$
 
2010-03-03 11:23:57 AM  

Altourus: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Altourus: So the fake ideals created by the organization which claims to be the sole source of authority on their given religion are not considered main stream thought? I'm curious as to why you feel the ideals of the church 2 millennia ago has more merit then the church 500 years ago? They used the same basic framework of myth to get their believers to do what they wanted. It's not like one was more "Christian" then the other. They were both Christianity in its fullest. The church says tomorrow that its unchristian to wear hats, do you know what the definition of Christianity will be? Those people with silly beliefs that don't wear hats.

How do I know you still don't understand propaganda? If Jesus, who is the foundation and example of Christianity who harmed nobody at any time ever, is diametrically opposed to a government that tortures and kills "in his name", you really need someone to tell you if they are not doing so by the precepts of Christianity? Did you completely miss the point that governments can and will use any common view of a society to make that society acquire more power and influence for the ruling class?

How do I know you still don't get my point? Because your talking about the story of Jesus like he's a real person. His story is a living and changing thing. So if yesterday it meant looking after your neighbours but today means convert your neighbours by the sword, it does not mean one view point is any more of a valid description then the other.


You're going to ignore what I said as a response, and stick to your script? Ok there, Palin.
 
2010-03-03 11:24:10 AM  
when i lived in dallas i got the door knockers at least twice a month. They were always nice and what not, but when i would deny them entry into my apartment they'd be like 'oh, well when's a good time so we can come back'. i never wanted to say 'i'm non-religious' because i felt they'd just write down my apartment number and make sure to come back to save my soul or whatever.

dunno. here in PR we get the occasional jehova's witness, and then on facebook there's a certain group of people that are always thanking Jesus and God in their status updates.

i've never had anyone approach me to talk me out of religion, though. never.
 
2010-03-03 11:24:34 AM  

Smidge204: kerpal32: There are many implications. Not sure about any consequences though.

There are implications but no consequences? At least you concede there might not be any consequences resulting from the existence of something beyond physical nature.

This is interesting, because it has been my position that anything that might exist beyond physical nature is inconsequential. It sounds like we're on the verge of agreeing!
=Smidge=


Again, your belief. funny how you immediately re-wrote what I said about there being implications, but not being certain there are consequences as "there are implications but no consequences".

/yawn....

//points back to the "you need to be honest too" to have an honest discussion part of the thread.
 
MIU
2010-03-03 11:25:26 AM  

Sun God: Actually, that's pretty much the objection.

I have never met an atheist who didn't believe in Luck, Karma, Reincarnation, Spiritual Healing, Yoga, Vitamins, Chi, Yin, and/or Yang.


Pleased to meet you!
 
2010-03-03 11:27:03 AM  

kerpal32: yes,and I given you honest answers, and provided you with multiple examples, (many originating from various schools of thought under here) and ultimately it falls back to you ignoring and rejecting an other view based on your beliefs in metaphysical naturalism and asking for empirical evidence based on your own beliefs.


So, name something that fits these categories:

A) Not physical
B) Not purely conceptual
C) Has no measurable physical influence
D) Demonstrably unobservable with physical means

Then please explain how it is different from something nonexistent.
 
2010-03-03 11:28:39 AM  

Dubai Vol: phrawgh: AeAe: Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it.

42

/does everything need an explanation, just to be?

Exactly. Facts simply ARE, self demonstrating, without need of explanation. Why do you, AeAe, need an "explanation" for existence? Or perhaps the question is, why do you think that an explanation is necessary? But I'll say this: the "explanation" that "God did it" is no explanation at all. It has no basis in fact or logic. It's a completely made-up "explanation." You're welcome to it if it helps you sleep at night, but if you insist on talking about it to people who don't agree, expect a rebuttal.

/and also, 42
//as good an answer as any


The concept of First Cause* - whatever it may be - is logically preferable to "POOF! ...and suddenly it was there!" And "POOF! ...and suddenly it was there!" is preferable to eternal cycling. But ALL explanations are wanting to some degree. It's a problem with the human race's limited ability to think.

*But of course, what was the cause of the First Cause?
 
2010-03-03 11:29:26 AM  

GilRuiz1: zamboni: Why do we need an explanation for why we exist? We do. Isn't that enough? I'd rather not have an answer than make something up.

If you must have an answer, why isn't "We don't know? good enough? It's a perfectly legitimate answer.

Why is making up an answer better? Why is accepting an answer made up by ancient goat herders better? How is going to war over differing opinions about it better? How is shutting off your brain and stopping looking for answers because you have something that sounds good and makes you feel all warm and fuzzy and loved inside better?


How is shutting off your brain and stopping looking for answers because "it's enough that we do" any better?


Gee, I don't know. I guess I think that it's better to realize that we don't have an answer and accept that until something supported by facts comes along, than to be so desperate for an answer, any answer, that we accept sophistry and stop listening.

If somebody wants to believe that some god created us because he wanted to, or was lonely or something else, fine. If they want to believe that he waved his hand and it was so, fine. They have absolutely no evidence for this but if they really believe it then they have stopped learning and have created more questions than they "answered."
 
2010-03-03 11:31:02 AM  

Inflatable Rhetoric: Religion = Superstition + $$$$$


Oh clever!

Atheism = Religion/$$$$$ multiplied by smug2

Awesome!
 
2010-03-03 11:32:42 AM  
2farknfunny 2010-03-03 11:10:44 AM

AeAe: Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it.

/matter happens


No. No one does. Just theories.
What's the point? The rent is due.
 
2010-03-03 11:32:52 AM  

jxb465: Deny is such an ugly word, and yes, I am. Name one and I'll give you the real reason behind it. And don't say the Inquisition, the Crusades, or the Holocaust, they are too easy.


Huitzilopochtli grows impatient.

kerpal32: which in and of itself is pretty amusing, since you cannot admit you simply have a belief which cannot be proven empirically.


I don't think I ever denied it, either. Perhaps you're confusing me with someone else? I will readily admit that there are unproven things upon which the entirety of my knowledge is built. Bald assertions. The bottom turtle, if you will.

However, my "what's perceived as real is really real and that's all there is" is not the same kind of assertion as your "reality plus" view. Especially when you practically admitted there are no consequences if the "plus" part actually exists or not.

You seem to waste no time strawmanning me yet again, and now you flat out call me dishonest. I'm asking questions trying to understand your position and you are making no attempt whatsoever to understand mine. The best you can do is post pictures... and not even original ones.

From now on, every time you post a picture as a response I'm going to take that as a concession that you are unable to progress in the discussion.

Now...

I should roll back my question a step, since I guess I did make an assumption about your position:

Do you know or do you believe there is something beyond physical reality?

kerpal32: Again, your belief. funny how you immediately re-wrote what I said about there being implications, but not being certain there are consequences as "there are implications but no consequences".


Only because that's what you said. You said there are implications but you weren't sure if there were consequences. I was asking/confirming if you are allowing implications with NO consequences. It was an honest question, really.

Maybe if you didn't construe everything as an attack you wouldn't be so frustrated?
=Smidge=
/Gotta run out, be back in a few hours...
 
2010-03-03 11:35:56 AM  

Epicedion: So, name something that fits these categories:

A) Not physical
B) Not purely conceptual
C) Has no measurable physical influence
D) Demonstrably unobservable with physical means

Then please explain how it is different from something nonexistent.


Branes?
 
2010-03-03 11:38:05 AM  

zamboni: GilRuiz1: zamboni: Why do we need an explanation for why we exist? We do. Isn't that enough? I'd rather not have an answer than make something up.

If you must have an answer, why isn't "We don't know? good enough? It's a perfectly legitimate answer.

Why is making up an answer better? Why is accepting an answer made up by ancient goat herders better? How is going to war over differing opinions about it better? How is shutting off your brain and stopping looking for answers because you have something that sounds good and makes you feel all warm and fuzzy and loved inside better?


How is shutting off your brain and stopping looking for answers because "it's enough that we do" any better?

Gee, I don't know. I guess I think that it's better to realize that we don't have an answer and accept that until something supported by facts comes along, than to be so desperate for an answer, any answer, that we accept sophistry and stop listening.

If somebody wants to believe that some god created us because he wanted to, or was lonely or something else, fine. If they want to believe that he waved his hand and it was so, fine. They have absolutely no evidence for this but if they really believe it then they have stopped learning and have created more questions than they "answered."


Belief in god changed the nature of the competition between the brutes and the brains. Religon is a necessary condition for the evolution of big brained apes and is entirely a creation of those big brained apes. Man created god so their could be man. No god, no man. No man, no god.
 
2010-03-03 11:41:51 AM  

zamboni: How is shutting off your brain and stopping looking for answers because "it's enough that we do" any better?

Gee, I don't know. I guess I think that it's better to realize that we don't have an answer and accept that until something supported by facts comes along, than to be so desperate for an answer, any answer, that we accept sophistry and stop listening.



Acknowledging that we don't have an answer is perfectly alright with me. It puzzles me, however, why you encourage others to quit looking for one. When you say "why do we need an explanation for why we exist; we do, isn't that enough," it tells people to simply accept things as they are and not question. Why not just say "we have no answers, period." Why tell people to quit searching?
 
2010-03-03 11:47:14 AM  

Sun God: I have never met an atheist who didn't believe in Luck, Karma, Reincarnation, Spiritual Healing, Yoga, Vitamins, Chi, Yin, and/or Yang.


Nice to meet you, how ya doing?
I don't believe in that shiat either. Now you've met one. You can also add ghosts, demons, spirits, fairies, magic, jedis, and the Loch Ness monster to that list.

Oh, wait, you said vitamins? Well, I do believe in vitamins. Unless you're talking about some kind of magical vitamins or something.
 
2010-03-03 11:47:34 AM  

Epicedion: kerpal32: yes,and I given you honest answers, and provided you with multiple examples, (many originating from various schools of thought under here) and ultimately it falls back to you ignoring and rejecting an other view based on your beliefs in metaphysical naturalism and asking for empirical evidence based on your own beliefs.

So, name something that fits these categories:

A) Not physical
B) Not purely conceptual
C) Has no measurable physical influence
D) Demonstrably unobservable with physical means

Then please explain how it is different from something nonexistent.


so tell me,


why do you get to define the criteria for things that are philosophically viewed to "transcend" nature (unless you initially believe them to be "natural"? Link goes to example of something conceptual that transcends the physical, but is also perceived to be experienced as part of 'nature'.


Smidge204: I should roll back my question a step, since I guess I did make an assumption about your position:

Do you know or do you believe there is something beyond physical reality?


I have a belief. one outside of science. But that doesn't prevent me from being a scientist.

what about you.


Do you know, or do you believe that no statements are true unless they can be proven scientifically?

And, do you know, or do you believe that there is nothing to reality and existence but natural things, forces, and causes of the kind studied by the natural sciences?

/be honest. if you can. to be honest with you, you haven't given me any evidence that you're capable of honest discussion. and it's obvious you are not willing to accept why some people are not atheists.
 
2010-03-03 11:48:13 AM  
I would just like to tell everyone that Jesus still loves you and if you want to accept him as Lord and savior, you just feel free to talk to me about it.
 
2010-03-03 11:49:19 AM  
Atheism *is* a system of belies by which people live their lives.

Hence : It's a religion. Just because it doesn't have a god doesn't make it not a religion. Just because it's individualistic and doesn't have a power structure doesn't make it not a religion. It has a single point of orthodoxy: There is no God.

I know it will 'offend' some of you to have me call your religion a religion, but it's just as offense as when some people call heterosexuality homosexuality. ( Do you know like gayness? Then you must be gay!)
 
2010-03-03 11:51:31 AM  

chamblin: I would just like to tell everyone that Jesus still loves you and if you want to accept him as Lord and savior, you just feel free to talk to me about it.


One of the most frequent reasons Christians claim to be confused by atheists is that they don't understand why we would turn them down "when we are humbly offering eternal happiness."

Sorry, but the idea that only the saved can be happy and the rest of the world will burn in hell is the height of arrogance.
 
2010-03-03 11:53:58 AM  

AeAe: Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it.


No, we're not pompous enough to pretend we know things like how the universe started. I could make up some fake story though pretty easily if you want me to, you know, like most religions do.
 
2010-03-03 11:54:50 AM  

rubi_con_man: Atheism *is* a system of belies by which people live their lives.


I know you're just a troll and all, but could you outline the belief system my lack-of-a-deity forces me to follow?
Because you know, I'd like to be a good atheist, so I have to know the rules I'm expected to live by.
 
2010-03-03 11:55:24 AM  

rubi_con_man: It has a single point of orthodoxy: There is no God.


Fail. When you figure out why you fail, let us know. We'll talk.
 
2010-03-03 11:57:20 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: Did I spell this correctly: You guys are saying atheists don't do what?


Atheists are just as retarded as other religious folk. Enjoy your religion.

That's not proselytizing.


Of course it's not. I mean, you don't want the other atheists to feel alone, so using the giant advertising billboard is more of a simple message from one atheist to another. Or from one atheist group to all the other non grouped atheists, in this case.

Even though we all know atheists don't ever form into groups, and would certainly have no interest in recruiting other people into their way of thinking. Especially not by forming into a group, and spending money on putting up a message to other atheists on a giant advertising billboard so that all the loner atheists don't feel so lonely.

It's not proselytizing when atheists do it. Advertising, under special atheist care, has been completely divorced from persuasion. It's a little known fact that atheists are the largest group of people not affiliated with each other that use advertising without the intent to persuade.
 
2010-03-03 11:57:36 AM  

rubi_con_man: It has a single point of orthodoxy: There is no God.


Who?
 
2010-03-03 11:57:52 AM  

halfof33: Inflatable Rhetoric: Religion = Superstition + $$$$$

Oh clever!

Atheism = Religion/$$$$$ multiplied by smug2

Awesome!


If it's not true, then what is the difference between
religion & superstition?

I want to know.
 
2010-03-03 11:59:12 AM  

sparrow794: It's not proselytizing when atheists do it. Advertising, under special atheist care, has been completely divorced from persuasion. It's a little known fact that atheists are the largest group of people not affiliated with each other that use advertising without the intent to persuade.


Which part of this is meant to persuade?

metroplexatheists.orgView Full Size


/hot like the hellfire in which I'll be burning
 
2010-03-03 12:01:06 PM  

chamblin: I would just like to tell everyone that Jesus still loves you and if you want to accept him as Lord and savior, you just feel free to talk to me about it.


Ask Jesus why god created malaria, polio, etc, if he loves us so much.
Or does Jesus love us, and god doesn't?
 
2010-03-03 12:04:09 PM  

kerpal32: And, do you know, or do you believe that there is nothing to reality and existence but natural things, forces, and causes of the kind studied by the natural sciences?


Can't answer for him, but I believe all things to be natural, or created by beings of natural origin. A car is not natural, but the people who built it are. If it exists, it is not supernatural, magical, etc. And yes, I do say 'believe', not 'know'. I will maintain that belief until I see evidence in contradiction of it.
 
2010-03-03 12:11:41 PM  

Wayfarer's Freedom: Religion sucks.

Atheism is retarded.

We need something really cool.


I'd suggest you try education, it's pretty cool.

Nihilism is only cool to other 14-year-olds.
 
2010-03-03 12:13:01 PM  
If atheists were as logical as they claim, they'd spend less time arguing against people who cannot provide evidence about something that they don't even believe affects them(theists), and more time arguing with people who reject the evidence in front of them, who are actually causing harm(climate change deniers).

It's like being trapped in a garage and arguing with someone that claims there's a grapefruit in the center of the sun, instead of the guy who's running his car, claiming the fumes are naturally occurring. That's reason?
 
2010-03-03 12:13:52 PM  
Controversial conversation is controversial.
 
2010-03-03 12:14:50 PM  
Now
It is all ways Now
It all ways has been Now
It all ways will be Now
It is all ways Now

there was no beginning
there will be no end
glory to Now the highest
there are world's without end

amen
 
2010-03-03 12:15:28 PM  
You mean people are all generally predisposed to similar behaviors?

Weird.
 
2010-03-03 12:17:31 PM  

ReverendJasen: kerpal32: And, do you know, or do you believe that there is nothing to reality and existence but natural things, forces, and causes of the kind studied by the natural sciences?

Can't answer for him, but I believe all things to be natural, or created by beings of natural origin. A car is not natural, but the people who built it are. If it exists, it is not supernatural, magical, etc. And yes, I do say 'believe', not 'know'. I will maintain that belief until I see evidence in contradiction of it.


Well good for you, you're welcome to your belief(s).

Just respect that others' have the right to believe differently than you do, try not to judge, mock or ridicule others, toss out your own fallacies and strawmen, or turn to your own dogma in the process.

/I find it ironic that Smidge204 accuses me of posting strawmen when all he's done is start with his own fallacies (including no true Scotsman, create false dichotomies, rely on contextomy equivocation and amphiboly to actually restate what I write to match his philosophical beliefs, and reject anything that doesn't align with his own beliefs in metaphysical naturalism. yea, that's his view of honesty....
 
2010-03-03 12:18:00 PM  

halfof33: bilbo douchebaggins: It's always the same.

It is not the same.

/there! where is your God theory NOW?
/I've run circles around you logically.


Doh! I'm ok with this.
 
2010-03-03 12:19:19 PM  
that's not proselytizing, it's trolling. and why the fark is there a prayer room in an airport called "John Lennon" in the first place anyway?
 
2010-03-03 12:20:26 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: If atheists were as logical as they claim, they'd spend less time arguing against people who cannot provide evidence about something that they don't even believe affects them(theists), and more time arguing with people who reject the evidence in front of them, who are actually causing harm(climate change deniers).

It's like being trapped in a garage and arguing with someone that claims there's a grapefruit in the center of the sun, instead of the guy who's running his car, claiming the fumes are naturally occurring. That's reason?


I was trapped on a plane for 5 hours next to a woman whose occupation/hobby was proseletyzing door-to-door. She met some people in baggage claim, and she pointed me out. They all stared at me and talked among themselves, but didn't approach me.
I think I converted all of them.
 
2010-03-03 12:21:00 PM  

I8B4U: I couldn't give two tin shiats for or against religion, but this struck me as funny.

FTFA:"But showing the images to jurors, who all swore their oath on the Bible"

What the hell is the defendant gonna do?

Can you answer no to swearing on the Bible to tell the truth? Honestly curious, as I've never been in a courtroom.


In the US, at least, one can request to be sworn in on a different holy book, or without a holy book at all (in which case you simply affirm that you are telling the truth under penalty of perjury).
 
2010-03-03 12:21:26 PM  

GilRuiz1: zamboni: How is shutting off your brain and stopping looking for answers because "it's enough that we do" any better?

Gee, I don't know. I guess I think that it's better to realize that we don't have an answer and accept that until something supported by facts comes along, than to be so desperate for an answer, any answer, that we accept sophistry and stop listening.


Acknowledging that we don't have an answer is perfectly alright with me. It puzzles me, however, why you encourage others to quit looking for one. When you say "why do we need an explanation for why we exist; we do, isn't that enough," it tells people to simply accept things as they are and not question. Why not just say "we have no answers, period." Why tell people to quit searching?


That isn't my position, sorry if I didn't make that clear.

"I don't know" is a perfectly acceptable answer, and one that I am prepared to live with until I die if that's the way it goes. In that sense it's "good enough." This is in no way meant to imply that I, or anyone, should stop thinking, listening or looking. I feel no drive to have an answer, any answer, even if it's wrong. People who believe that they already have the answer see no need to keep looking.

I know that I don't have answers yet, some people are convinced that they do. Which is more likely to be receptive to new information?
 
2010-03-03 12:21:38 PM  

ReverendJasen: rubi_con_man: Atheism *is* a system of belies by which people live their lives.

I know you're just a troll and all, but could you outline the belief system my lack-of-a-deity forces me to follow?
Because you know, I'd like to be a good atheist, so I have to know the rules I'm expected to live by.


Atheism is a characteristic of many distinct belief systems, so you really can take your pick. Secular humanism is the popular default choice, but that's harder to say and not as inflammatory so it's easier to ignore all the distinctions between atheistic worldviews and just assume all atheists are nihilistic satanic homosexual hedonists.
 
2010-03-03 12:25:32 PM  

Inflatable Rhetoric: BraveNewCheneyWorld: If atheists were as logical as they claim, they'd spend less time arguing against people who cannot provide evidence about something that they don't even believe affects them(theists), and more time arguing with people who reject the evidence in front of them, who are actually causing harm(climate change deniers).

It's like being trapped in a garage and arguing with someone that claims there's a grapefruit in the center of the sun, instead of the guy who's running his car, claiming the fumes are naturally occurring. That's reason?

I was trapped on a plane for 5 hours next to a woman whose occupation/hobby was proseletyzing door-to-door. She met some people in baggage claim, and she pointed me out. They all stared at me and talked among themselves, but didn't approach me.
I think I converted all of them.


Don't get on me about "proseletyzing", the phone rang while I was typing.
 
2010-03-03 12:28:46 PM  

Inflatable Rhetoric: Inflatable Rhetoric: BraveNewCheneyWorld: If atheists were as logical as they claim, they'd spend less time arguing against people who cannot provide evidence about something that they don't even believe affects them(theists), and more time arguing with people who reject the evidence in front of them, who are actually causing harm(climate change deniers).

It's like being trapped in a garage and arguing with someone that claims there's a grapefruit in the center of the sun, instead of the guy who's running his car, claiming the fumes are naturally occurring. That's reason?

I was trapped on a plane for 5 hours next to a woman whose occupation/hobby was proseletyzing door-to-door. She met some people in baggage claim, and she pointed me out. They all stared at me and talked among themselves, but didn't approach me.
I think I converted all of them.

Don't get on me about "proseletyzing", the phone rang while I was typing.


Forgot to log your alt, eh?
 
2010-03-03 12:29:28 PM  

zamboni: That isn't my position, sorry if I didn't make that clear.
"I don't know" is a perfectly acceptable answer, and one that I am prepared to live with until I die if that's the way it goes. In that sense it's "good enough."


Ah, okay. Well it's all good, then.


zamboni: People who believe that they already have the answer see no need to keep looking.
I know that I don't have answers yet, some people are convinced that they do. Which is more likely to be receptive to new information?


I'm not so sure it has led to a stagnation of thought or exploration. After all, the great explorers of history and the pioneers who invented science were religious, and they still went out and studied the world. It'll probably be alright.
 
2010-03-03 12:29:52 PM  

AeAe: Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it.


Why not.
 
2010-03-03 12:37:59 PM  

GilRuiz1: I'm not so sure it has led to a stagnation of thought or exploration. After all, the great explorers of history and the pioneers who invented science were religious, and they still went out and studied the world. It'll probably be alright.



LOL!
 
2010-03-03 12:39:23 PM  
This is why I follow the Gourd.

farm1.static.flickr.comView Full Size
 
2010-03-03 12:40:39 PM  

Theaetetus:
You are the ones who are ball lickers. Were gonna fark your mothers while you watch and cry like little whiney bithces. Once we get to Hollywood and find those Miramax farks who are making that movie, were gonna make them eat our shiat, then shiat out our shiat and then eat their shiat thats made up of our shiat that we made em eat, and then all you motherfarks are next.



wow. I like that. needs to be condensed. Maybe,

"eat my shiat. then eat your shiat that's made up entirely of my shiat."
 
2010-03-03 12:47:11 PM  
When presented with the question...

"Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist?"


The WRONG way to answer is as follows...

"We don't know."

"Do theists have an answer to why God exists?"

"Science has an answer."


None of these responses answer the question correctly.

To say "We" don't know is essentially giving validity to an otherwise invalid question. The question is being presented with a false understanding of what it means to be atheist. An answer like this gives the impression that atheism is an opposing philosophical view regarding answers to "why". It also gives the impression that atheism is a belief, which is the opposite of what the word means.

To follow up with a question asking for an explanation for a god presupposes the question is coming from a theist. Probably a correct assumption, but never the less gives the impression that atheism is an opposing belief system.

And the last response makes the false connection between science and atheism. Even if every single scientist were an atheist it is still making an invalid connection and applying false meaning to a word.


If someone asks "What sound does an orange make?" You don't answer it by saying "thud" or "squish" or trying to come up with some answer that somehow makes sense to someone. You need to explain why the question is invalid.
 
2010-03-03 12:49:20 PM  
Irony alert... the John Lennon airport sign says "Above us only sky." What do the airport people think that lyric is supposed to mean? It doesn't take an English major to uncover the atheist message there.
 
2010-03-03 12:50:40 PM  

Doink_Boink: GilRuiz1: I'm not so sure it has led to a stagnation of thought or exploration. After all, the great explorers of history and the pioneers who invented science were religious, and they still went out and studied the world. It'll probably be alright.


LOL!


Lol?

Nicholas Copernicus
Sir Francis Bacon
Johannes Kepler
Galileo Galilei
Rene Descartes
Isaac Newton
Robert Boyle
Michael Faraday
Gregor Mendel
William Thomson Kelvin
Max Planck
Albert Einstein
 
2010-03-03 12:51:24 PM  

HeartBurnKid: Here's a clue-by-four upside your head: It's news when atheists proselytize because it's incredibly rare. It's not news when Christians do it because it's depressingly common.


Living in the hometown of the late Jerry Falwell, I can corroborate that statement. Over the years, I've had his sheeple approach me at high school football games, the mall, my jobs, volleyball tournaments, and my home to try and "save" me. On more than one occasion, I've not so kindly told them to fark off.
One time, they found out I have cerebral palsy somehow and this one guy kept coming by my home, trying to get me to come and join their "group of young Christians". I kept telling him thanks, but no thanks, but he would not stop bothering me. One final time, he had the audacity to come by and parade this woman with CP in front of me, telling me that I could be just like her and enjoy life more if I just gave myself over to God. I could tell by looking at her that she knew she was just a pawn in this guy's game(they are very good ay preying, no pun intended, on the vulnerable; especially when it suits their purpose), but she went along with it anyway. If she hadn't been there, I would've cockpunched him. Instead, I just slammed the door in their faces without saying a word. I never saw the asshat again.

/yeah, I know; cool story bro.
//devout Atheist
///slashies
 
2010-03-03 12:54:09 PM  
"Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it."

Time is a measurement of motion
Everything is in motion in the eternal present
there was no beginning, there will be no end

existence is infinite, there is no mid point
there is no outer border or "limit"
the reason we exist is because it is possible

there are worlds without end
amen
 
2010-03-03 12:55:50 PM  

Slartibartfaster: WhoIsPraetorian: This might be a really brilliant headline. Or Subby is a complete idiot.

I'm gonna throw out a +1

Goal was to get a greenlight
got a greenlight
pissed off lots of atheists, who responded with moral relativism

Id call that a +2 at least

// Im an atheist, not a moral relativist


You may have thrown a troll hook big enough to take down the entire internets. For that, may God and his only begotten son Jesus smile down upon you from heaven.
 
2010-03-03 12:56:21 PM  

FishyFred: sparrow794: It's not proselytizing when atheists do it. Advertising, under special atheist care, has been completely divorced from persuasion. It's a little known fact that atheists are the largest group of people not affiliated with each other that use advertising without the intent to persuade.

Which part of this is meant to persuade?

/hot like the hellfire in which I'll be burning


That is one. How about this one?

or this one:


How about this one:


Atheists (as in more than one but not including all [since that needs to be explained to you of superior IQ], being atheist) preach.
 
2010-03-03 12:56:59 PM  
There's an airport named after John Lennon?

Guess it makes more sense than one named after Will Rogers.
 
2010-03-03 12:59:09 PM  

s2s2s2: FishyFred: sparrow794: It's not proselytizing when atheists do it. Advertising, under special atheist care, has been completely divorced from persuasion. It's a little known fact that atheists are the largest group of people not affiliated with each other that use advertising without the intent to persuade.

Which part of this is meant to persuade?

/hot like the hellfire in which I'll be burning

That is one. How about this one?

or this one:


How about this one:


Atheists (as in more than one but not including all [since that needs to be explained to you of superior IQ], being atheist) preach.


Dangit! Posting fail. All images(and more) attempted are here

Link (new window)


/did not read instructions for Fark or the blog these pictures are posted on.
 
2010-03-03 1:02:00 PM  

JeffreyScott: People_are_Idiots: ninjakirby: mamoru: 1.) The guy in TFA is a complete asshat.
2.) There are far more religious proselytizers and there are atheist ones.
3.) #2 in no way diminishes #1.

Preach it baby.

Also, I have the feeling this thread is gonna need this:

And on the same token, here:

/anyone ever really hurt by praying?
//know Pat Roberson wishes it did... ;)
///thinks militant ANYTHING is wrong. Just lay off my faith, I lay off yours.
////btw, how's the wife and kids?
//SLASHIES!!!


Not by the act of praying itself, but believing all that B.S. That has and continues to result in abortion clinic bombings, killing of doctors, etc....

It also leads to people thinking they know better than I on how I should live my life, whether I should be able to purchase a beer on Sunday. And, the scary part is most don't think that people who support blue laws are militant.


And they are called fundies. I don't know what militant atheists should be called, but fundies are the main blame in that regard. And sadly, blue laws are a joke as it is, but there are some cities and counties that don't allow any sale of alcohol. Only thing I'd support in my area is an increased fine for DUI's during certain hours (in school and church zones), mainly because of kids in these areas.

Same goes for those who attempt to force religion into pubic schools and mess with science courses to teach young earth B.S. when it has zero basis in fact.

I for one would like an elective theology class in public schools, which counts as college credit. As far as messing with science with "young earth BS," what in Tartarus is that phrase?

/I will take my hands off your faith when you stop trying to force it down my throat and you pray in private as instructed by Matthew 6:6 (new window).

FYI - did I say I prayed in public?

"Tolerance is the positive and cordial effort to understand another's beliefs, practices, and habits without necessarily sharing or accepting them."
-Joshua Loth Liebman

"What is objectionable, what is dangerous, about extremists is not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant. The evil is not what they say about their cause, but what they say about their opponents."
-Robert Francis Kennedy
 
2010-03-03 1:09:48 PM  

Smidge204: People_are_Idiots: Militant Atheism is real, just as hideous as Militants in other religions. This is all I point out.


And what was pointed out to you is that Atheism has no motivating factors to catalyze atrocities.

What you call "Militant atheists" by way of Stalin et al. are more accurately described as ruthless demagogues who happen to profess atheism. You need to prove a causal link exists between atheism and the atrocities in question. Nobody has yet been able to do so... probably because atheism alone has no tenants, doctrines or principles with which to forge the necessary policies.

You are claiming Stalin was a mass murderer because he was an atheist, but you do not demonstrate his professed atheism was the reason for it. At best this is a generic questionable cause fallacy.

Take your time and think about it.
=Smidge=


Why think? It's on WIKIPEDIA: Link (new window)

"Stalin followed the position adopted by Lenin that religion was an opiate that needed to be removed in order to construct the ideal communist society. To this end his government promoted atheism through special atheistic education in schools, massive amounts of anti-religious propaganda, the antireligious work of public institutions (especially the Society of the Godless), discriminatory laws, and also a terror campaign against religious believers. By the late 1930s it had become dangerous to be publicly associated with religion[75]

Stalin's role in the fortunes of the Russian Orthodox Church is complex. Continuous persecution in the 1930s resulted in its near-extinction as a public institution: by 1939, active parishes numbered in the low hundreds (down from 54,000 in 1917), many churches had been leveled, and tens of thousands of priests, monks and nuns were persecuted and killed. Over 100,000 were shot during the purges of 1937-1938.[76] During World War II, the Church was allowed a revival as a patriotic organization, after the NKVD had recruited the new metropolitan, the first after the revolution, as a secret agent. Thousands of parishes were reactivated until a further round of suppression in Khrushchev's time. The Russian Orthodox Church Synod's recognition of the Soviet government and of Stalin personally led to a schism with the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia.

Just days before Stalin's death, certain religious sects were outlawed and persecuted. Many religions popular in the ethnic regions of the Soviet Union including the Roman Catholic Church, Uniats, Baptists, Islam, Buddhism, Judaism, etc. underwent ordeals similar to the Orthodox churches in other parts: thousands of monks were persecuted, and hundreds of churches, synagogues, mosques, temples, sacred monuments, monasteries and other religious buildings were razed."
 
2010-03-03 1:15:01 PM  
Wow, I can't hear the article over the sound of all of the whining atheists in here.
 
2010-03-03 1:16:29 PM  

s2s2s2: Dangit! Posting fail. All images(and more) attempted are here


One of those is the billboard I posted. Two of them are clearly anti-organized religion and not specifically anti-god. The other one ("There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.") could hardly be meant to persuade. Provoke? Maybe a little. But what are you being persuaded to do? Enjoy your life? Awww... poor you. I hope you aren't offended or anything.

Seriously. As that link shows, it's a false equivalency. I've driven on interstates with billboards that announce in huge letters "HELL IS REAL." The billboards in the link make crazy accusations against atheists that are completely unfounded.

On the atheist side, there was only one billboard at the link that could even be considered remotely offensive.

Okay... there were two. Jesus would never drink Budweiser.
 
2010-03-03 1:16:36 PM  
May some imaginary god smite the shiat out of him.
 
2010-03-03 1:16:43 PM  

Urinal Gum: Wow, I can't hear the article over the sound of all of the whining atheists in here.


How about a nice game of.... chess?
 
2010-03-03 1:17:17 PM  

Klingon Penis: One atheist proselytized. We aren't all directed to by an ancient book. subby fail.


Neither are all people of faith. Penis fail.
 
2010-03-03 1:17:20 PM  

kwame: Molavian: You know, I love reading through religious threads because it's like a dogpile of retards.

Don't leave out the butthurt. Lots and lots of butthurt.


I savor it like a fine wine.
 
2010-03-03 1:18:34 PM  

rubi_con_man: AtheismDemocracy *is* a system of belies by which people live their lives.

Hence : It's a religion. Just because it doesn't have a god doesn't make it not a religion. Just because it's individualisticpopulist and doesn't have a power structurecentral authority doesn't make it not a religion. It has a single point of orthodoxy: There is no God.People should vote.

I know it will 'offend' some of you to have me call your religion a religion, but it's just as offense as when some people call heterosexuality homosexuality. ( Do you know like gayness? Then you must be gay!)


Just pointing out how stupid you are.
 
2010-03-03 1:19:12 PM  

AeAe: Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it.


No, and neither do you. Well, at least one that isn't complete bulshiat.
 
2010-03-03 1:19:16 PM  

FishyFred: Which part of this is meant to persuade?


The part where it's outside on a giant bilboard 60 feet off the ground.
 
2010-03-03 1:20:29 PM  

Inflatable Rhetoric: If it's not true, then what is the difference between
religion & superstition?

I want to know.


Ten largest US Charities:

United Way
Salvation Army
Feed the Children
American Cancer Society
Gifts in Kind International
AmeriCares
YMCAs in the United States
American National Red Cross
Catholic Charities USA
America's Second Harvest
 
2010-03-03 1:22:16 PM  
My god Dionysus cares not! Pass the wine and get some tits in my face; That's prayer I can believe in!

While you and all your gods keep fighting each other, I will be down at the titty bar, tithing to my god.

/Unfortunately, the only one around here is Deju Vu.
//And Deja Vu sucks. They're an affront to Dionysus.
 
2010-03-03 1:25:49 PM  

kerpal32: we also discussed distinctions in views of reality (which I consider to include everything that is, whether or not it is observable or comprehensible ), different types of experience, phenomenology, concepts regarding nature as emergent phenomenon as part of a more complex system, what defines knowledge and different schools of thought on that, and many other rational components around epistemology, including the fact that not everyone believes in strict evidentialism and justificationism, including a number of people who helped define scientific method and the philosophy of science during the later half of the last century and even today.


Why cant you get across what you are trying to say without linking to others work that is as equally vague?

Describe in your own words .
 
2010-03-03 1:26:07 PM  

coffee fiend: HeartBurnKid: Here's a clue-by-four upside your head: It's news when atheists proselytize because it's incredibly rare. It's not news when Christians do it because it's depressingly common.

Living in the hometown of the late Jerry Falwell, I can corroborate that statement. Over the years, I've had his sheeple approach me at high school football games, the mall, my jobs, volleyball tournaments, and my home to try and "save" me. On more than one occasion, I've not so kindly told them to fark off.
One time, they found out I have cerebral palsy somehow and this one guy kept coming by my home, trying to get me to come and join their "group of young Christians". I kept telling him thanks, but no thanks, but he would not stop bothering me. One final time, he had the audacity to come by and parade this woman with CP in front of me, telling me that I could be just like her and enjoy life more if I just gave myself over to God. I could tell by looking at her that she knew she was just a pawn in this guy's game(they are very good ay preying, no pun intended, on the vulnerable; especially when it suits their purpose), but she went along with it anyway. If she hadn't been there, I would've cockpunched him. Instead, I just slammed the door in their faces without saying a word. I never saw the asshat again.

/yeah, I know; cool story bro.
//devout Atheist
///slashies


Another Lynchburger? How do you like how they desecrated that mountain?
 
2010-03-03 1:26:44 PM  

kerpal32: Again, your belief. funny how you immediately re-wrote what I said about there being implications, but not being certain there are consequences as "there are implications but no consequences".

/yawn....

//points back to the "you need to be honest too" to have an honest discussion part of the thread.


Instead of just simply answering the question.
 
2010-03-03 1:27:55 PM  

kerpal32: /I find it ironic that Smidge204 accuses me of posting strawmen when all he's done is start with his own fallacies (including no true Scotsman, create false dichotomies, rely on contextomy equivocation and amphiboly to actually restate what I write to match his philosophical beliefs, and reject anything that doesn't align with his own beliefs in metaphysical naturalism. yea, that's his view of honesty....


Why should anyone believe otherwise?

In your own words please.
 
2010-03-03 1:29:40 PM  

oldebayer: I actually had a cousin, for whom I'd just gone out of my way to drive him to a store, ask me on the way home if I'd accepted Jebus as my Lord and Saviour.


This wouldn't bother me. I would just laugh and say "Of course not!". If he insisted, I would calmly and respectfully dissect his points one by one, with logic and reason, until he had either lost his faith or was no longer speaking to me. Either way it would be a victory.
 
2010-03-03 1:30:42 PM  
"God is a word and the argument ends there".

Thanks, Bill Callahan.

I don't know, you don't know, that dude doesn't know, your grandma doesn't know...

I'm all for a good argument here and there but the people who spend their entire lives trying to prove the existence of (or lack of) a magical sky wizard... Do you not have hobbies?
 
2010-03-03 1:31:21 PM  

Sun God: This is by far the dumbest thread about atheism I've read on Fark for at least the last two or three weeks.


So you only read Fark once every two or three weeks?
 
2010-03-03 1:35:04 PM  
I feel as though the only real atheists that exist anymore are the ones that simply don't bring up being one. In the past 2-3 years atheism has become such an internet bandwagon it's actually quite laughable. Suddenly thousands of people know that a god, or gods, don't exist because they are so logically-minded that they are at the borderline of cracking The Matrix. Just like Abrahamic religions make people feel as though they are more righteous than others, atheism seems to make people feel as though they are more superior to others. As if every major scientist and philosopher was an atheist...please. Atheism is starting to function exactly like other religions nowadays, in that the followers are so sure of something that is impossible to be sure of, the non-existence of god. I think most, like myself, are just agnostic. You have lots of doubts, lots of hopes, but can never be certain of anything so why bother with such particular worship? Not the same thing as atheism. I feel admission of uncertainty is the most rational and humble state of mind.
 
2010-03-03 1:43:24 PM  
If proselytize means:is the act of attempting to convert people to another opinion and, particularly, another religion.

If it's not being used as a exclusively religious thing, then yeah, of course, otherwise you making a categorical error.
 
2010-03-03 1:43:30 PM  

MaCoDaMieNuTz: In the past 2-3 years atheism has become such an internet bandwagon it's actually quite laughable.


First century: "Man, in the past few years, Christianity has become such a young Jewish bandwagon. It's actually quite laughable."

I can't believe it didn't occur to you that maybe -- just maybe -- people who were too frightened to talk about it amongst people they know in real life can now talk about it with anonymous strangers on the internet, and so most people get it out of their system online.

It happens to almost everyone who grows up with religion and then has a sudden epiphany. They have to get that bitterness out of their system. It takes teens a year or two. Then it's back to normal life.
 
2010-03-03 1:44:58 PM  
I once had to threaten a couple Jehovah's Witnesses with violence to get them to stop knocking on my door on a daily basis (I worked graveyard shift back in those days). I first asked politely. The next day, not so politely. The third day I came unglued and told them the next time they woke me up I was going to kick their asses all the way back to the street. I was pretty short tempered back then.

I put up a "No Soliciting" sign next to the door on my current house. This seems to work fine, and the local JW crew bypasses my house when they are out and about.

I've never in my life had an atheist attempt to proselytize to me. Ever.

/non proselytizing atheist
 
MIU
2010-03-03 1:48:16 PM  

kerpal32: Just respect that others' have the right to believe differently than you do, try not to judge, mock or ridicule others, toss out your own fallacies and strawmen, or turn to your own dogma in the process.

/I find it ironic that Smidge204 accuses me of posting strawmen when all he's done is start with his own fallacies (including no true Scotsman, create false dichotomies, rely on contextomy equivocation and amphiboly to actually restate what I write to match his philosophical beliefs, and reject anything that doesn't align with his own beliefs in metaphysical naturalism. yea, that's his view of honesty....


How ironic coming from you.

This is the second atheism thread I've followed where you've appeared, and you have been by far the biggest douchbag in both. I don't think you're capable of arguing honestly or respectfully.
 
2010-03-03 1:49:54 PM  

Slaves2Darkness: I find those who claim we have no way of knowing to just be those too lazy to make a choice.


Have fun with your faith. Choosing to believe something that you have no way of knowing is just idiocy. Couch it any way you want if it makes you feel better or sleep better at night.

No. Seriously. You can (and should) believe in anything you want. From unicorns to to dragons, it is all good. If YOU feel better than go ahead. Just do try to keep in mind that your faith based religious views are silly.
 
2010-03-03 1:55:35 PM  
"...don't exist because they are so logically-minded that they are at the borderline of cracking The Matrix."

Mah cultures got teh matrix of contruls calld rlegion. I madded teh crack? Got wud pudy sealer?

"Atheism is starting to function exactly like other religions nowadays"?

Citation Needed.

At most they could only act as a group movement, if they weren't so cat-like, didn't operate either on the net or in solo most of the time, it might happen, so it won't.Not without an exterior ideology political or otherwise which would appeal with exclusivity to people who already ascribe to the single "tenet" of atheism, then maybe.

Group movements /= religions BTW. They are distinct terms which share some overlap (like proselytizing) but in other important areas of behavior are distinct.
 
2010-03-03 1:57:58 PM  

AeAe: Honest question.. Do atheists have an explanation for why we exist? "we" = the universe and everything in it.


Yep. Pure chance plus laws of nature.

Does any religion have an explanation for why we exist or how that can't be foiled with a simple question like "But who created him?"

All we do is eliminate the middleman and pass the savings on to you.
 
2010-03-03 2:08:39 PM  

fotojenic: I'm all for a good argument here and there but the people who spend their entire lives trying to prove the existence of (or lack of) a magical sky wizard... Do you not have hobbies?


It might be their hobby, it might be someones hobby to try and prove there's nothing or something in a sealed impenetrable black box that can't be opened. I agree, its a retarded hobby to have, but that's a subjective statement and some may rather enjoy such fruitless activities, mental masturbation, twirling in circles, and the like.
 
2010-03-03 2:13:51 PM  

sgnilward: It makes as much sense as saying "My hobby is not collecting stamps"


I just found my new hobby!
 
2010-03-03 2:19:25 PM  
Matter can neither be created nor destroyed.
Matter is eternal and infinite.
God is matter symbolized and deified.
 
2010-03-03 2:21:34 PM  

zepillin: Matter can neither be created nor destroyed.
Matter is eternal and infinite.
God is matter symbolized and deified.


I pooped out God today.
 
2010-03-03 2:30:51 PM  
"Matter can neither be created nor destroyed.
Matter is eternal and infinite.
God is matter symbolized and deified."

Which tends to lead to some confusion
and unsolvable paradoxes, by the way.
 
2010-03-03 2:34:19 PM  

zepillin: Matter can neither be created nor destroyed.
Matter is eternal and infinite.
God is matter symbolized and deified.


My ham sandwich is God rectified for digestion by God and redistributed amongst more God. Exactly? When does a word become meaningless, when its used for everything it means nothing, but still conveys feeling.
 
2010-03-03 2:35:08 PM  
I love these theism threads, although I still haven't seen a single post explaining why atheism is a religon that makes one lick of sense. I have a garage but no car, but because my garage could hold a car I have a car called no-car? So not having a car is having a car because I have a garage?
 
2010-03-03 2:37:52 PM  

2farknfunny: I love these theism threads, although I still haven't seen a single post explaining why atheism is a religon that makes one lick of sense. I have a garage but no car, but because my garage could hold a car I have a car called no-car? So not having a car is having a car because I have a garage?


I imagine that would make sense to many religious people. They would assert that your garage has a car-shaped hole in it. Therefore, you must have a car. Somewhere.
 
MIU
2010-03-03 2:44:04 PM  

zepillin: Matter can neither be created nor destroyed.
Matter is eternal and infinite.
God is matter symbolized and deified.


If you shove an electron and a positron together at low-ish speeds, you can get a pair of photons, which are massless. Doesn't that qualify as 'destroying' matter?
 
2010-03-03 2:46:26 PM  

FishyFred: 2farknfunny: I love these theism threads, although I still haven't seen a single post explaining why atheism is a religon that makes one lick of sense. I have a garage but no car, but because my garage could hold a car I have a car called no-car? So not having a car is having a car because I have a garage?

I imagine that would make sense to many religious people. They would assert that your garage has a car-shaped hole in it. Therefore, you must have a car. Somewhere.


The rectangular whole left on the a face missing from a rectangular prism is not shaped like a car. Nor is the garage door, the whole left is simply big enough for many different types of cars to get through, and all bikes, and various other trinkets, widgets, old furniture etc.
 
2010-03-03 2:49:52 PM  
When does a word become meaningless, when its used for everything it means nothing, but still conveys feeling.


mat·ter
/ˈmætər/ Show Spelled[mat-er] Show IPA
-noun
1.
the substance or substances of which any physical object consists or is composed: the matter of which the earth is made.
2.
physical or corporeal substance in general, whether solid, liquid, or gaseous, esp. as distinguished from incorporeal substance, as spirit or mind, or from qualities, actions, and the like.
3.
something that occupies space.

It is true the words matter, everything, and God
do convey a feeling

I propose all three words are equally valuable or meaningless, depending on the context and/or perception of the listener.
 
2010-03-03 2:52:20 PM  

FishyFred: nerdoverlord: To my fellow athiests...

I'm athier than you could ever be.


Not my favorite typo bu tit's probably more frequent than I prefer.
 
MIU
2010-03-03 2:53:47 PM  

zepillin: When does a word become meaningless, when its used for everything it means nothing, but still conveys feeling.


"Matter" does not encompass everything that we observe and experience. Light, for example.
 
2010-03-03 2:54:37 PM  

2farknfunny: I love these theism threads, although I still haven't seen a single post explaining why atheism is a religon that makes one lick of sense. I have a garage but no car, but because my garage could hold a car I have a car called no-car? So not having a car is having a car because I have a garage?


2farknfunny: I love these theism threads, although I still haven't seen a single post explaining why atheism is a religon that makes one lick of sense. I have a garage but no car, but because my garage could hold a car I have a car called no-car? So not having a car is having a car because I have a garage?


Religious 1 : relating to or manifesting faithful devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity

Since many atheists claim to have the correct knowledge that the universe simply "is", and feel so strongly about the veracity of their claim that they must ridicule all who think differently, yes, they're a bit religious. Agnostics and "live and let live" atheists, not so much.
 
2010-03-03 2:54:52 PM  
Another myth busted by thread:

Atheists are not butt-hurt, overly-defensive, cranky, patronizing, individuals full of resentment. Most are genuinely well-adjusted individuals with enough self-esteem to be able to handle the occasional ribbing or dissenting opinion.

I find it interesting that it seems to be a tenet of most faiths that it is pretty much a given that you WILL be ridiculed, mocked, and your beliefs WILL be questioned by others, and put to the test, and you're supposed to accept this as part of life.

Yet atheists feel that they are somehow above this basic detail of human nature, and shouldn't be subject to what amounts to the same damn thing. Nobody has yet explained to me why Atheists should get a free pass on this specific bite of the shiat sandwich that is life.

/Apatheist.
 
2010-03-03 2:58:28 PM  

sip111: fotojenic: I'm all for a good argument here and there but the people who spend their entire lives trying to prove the existence of (or lack of) a magical sky wizard... Do you not have hobbies?

It might be their hobby, it might be someones hobby to try and prove there's nothing or something in a sealed impenetrable black box that can't be opened. I agree, its a retarded hobby to have, but that's a subjective statement and some may rather enjoy such fruitless activities, mental masturbation, twirling in circles, and the like.


I suppose you are right.

I'll never understand why anyone would want to spend their entire life arguing about this, though...

Oh well. It's not my problem nor is it my concern.
 
2010-03-03 2:58:40 PM  

zepillin: Now
It is all ways Now
It all ways has been Now
It all ways will be Now
It is all ways Now

there was no beginning
there will be no end
glory to Now the highest
there are world's without end

amen


gives me a warm hedonistic fuzzy.

it can't be not now of course.
 
2010-03-03 3:01:37 PM  

SirMadness: Another myth busted by thread:

Atheists are not butt-hurt, overly-defensive, cranky, patronizing, individuals full of resentment. Most are genuinely well-adjusted individuals with enough self-esteem to be able to handle the occasional ribbing or dissenting opinion.

I find it interesting that it seems to be a tenet of most faiths that it is pretty much a given that you WILL be ridiculed, mocked, and your beliefs WILL be questioned by others, and put to the test, and you're supposed to accept this as part of life.

Yet atheists feel that they are somehow above this basic detail of human nature, and shouldn't be subject to what amounts to the same damn thing. Nobody has yet explained to me why Atheists should get a free pass on this specific bite of the shiat sandwich that is life.

/Apatheist.


SirMadness: Another myth busted by thread:

Atheists are not butt-hurt, overly-defensive, cranky, patronizing, individuals full of resentment. Most are genuinely well-adjusted individuals with enough self-esteem to be able to handle the occasional ribbing or dissenting opinion.

I find it interesting that it seems to be a tenet of most faiths that it is pretty much a given that you WILL be ridiculed, mocked, and your beliefs WILL be questioned by others, and put to the test, and you're supposed to accept this as part of life.

Yet atheists feel that they are somehow above this basic detail of human nature, and shouldn't be subject to what amounts to the same damn thing. Nobody has yet explained to me why Atheists should get a free pass on this specific bite of the shiat sandwich that is life.

/Apatheist.


Erm, you need better condiments.
 
2010-03-03 3:04:19 PM  

kerpal32: so tell me,


why do you get to define the criteria for things that are philosophically viewed to "transcend" nature (unless you initially believe them to be "natural"? Link goes to example of something conceptual that transcends the physical, but is also perceived to be experienced as part of 'nature'.


How is infinity "perceived to be experienced as part of 'nature'" as you say?

Also, if you are perceiving something then it is exerting physical influence and is therefore measurable. Something being measurable seems to go against "transcending" nature.
 
2010-03-03 3:06:44 PM  

SirMadness: Yet atheists feel that they are somehow above this basic detail of human nature, and shouldn't be subject to what amounts to the same damn thing. Nobody has yet explained to me why Atheists should get a free pass on this specific bite of the shiat sandwich that is life.


Most atheists figure out on their own that nothing is sacred, including anything they say. Part of it is probably that the idea of "blasphemy" being a bad thing is so prominent. If religious folks weren't so quick to censor or denounce, it might not be such a major deal.
 
2010-03-03 3:06:51 PM  
I called it an internet bandwagon simply because I see far more posts, usually on irrelevant subjects, or just regarding extremists, decrying christianity as a whole ludicrous and evil. I don't know where you guys come from but most people I know who consider themselves christians really do not take their religion all that literally or seriously. And I think that's a good thing. They simply identify with the most prominent and attractive spiritual influence in their lives. They like the idea of heaven and trying to be nice like jesus... and that's where it ends.

Also, how could you compare persecution in the first century to persecution now? Are you gunna get burned at the stake anywhere in America? The only people who give a shiat that you don't believe in god are a small minority of people not worth knowing anyway. Or maybe you're just a loud-mouthed know-it-all that likes to preach about what they believe in (just like the religious). In that case you're only making atheism a more undesirable religion.

How could atheism be a religion instead of a group movement as someone said above? Because people seem to be treating science itself as a supernatural entity. They understand very little about the beginning of the universe but because they read A Brief History of Time they suddenly have all the answers. How could they know what is essentially unknowable? It's fine and dandy to not believe in god. But that is nothing more a than an unprovable belief and it goes both ways. Just because it's easy to pick on fundies does not mean that the vast majority of christians are all dumb. I could say that the atheists are inclined to be murders because of the destructive influence of Stalin and Pol Pot, but that wouldn't be representative.
 
2010-03-03 3:07:58 PM  
"it can't be not now of course."

of course

Yippee, a convert!

Does anyone here doubt the existence of the
infinite and eternal Now?
 
2010-03-03 3:11:41 PM  

MaCoDaMieNuTz: I don't know where you guys come from but most people I know who consider themselves christians really do not take their religion all that literally or seriously.


This is probably because you don't associate with the craziest and because the craziest tend to create somewhat insular communities. But they are out there and they are a huge percentage of the population.

Over 100 million Americans think the Rapture will occur in their lifetimes. Seriously.

Also, how could you compare persecution in the first century to persecution now?

The people who you will find doing this most often are Christians who feel compelled to play the victim.

How could atheism be a religion instead of a group movement as someone said above? Because people seem to be treating science itself as a supernatural entity.

That's not right. I don't think that's even wrong. What are you trying to say here?
 
2010-03-03 3:14:24 PM  

SirMadness: Another myth busted by thread:

Atheists are not butt-hurt, overly-defensive, cranky, patronizing, individuals full of resentment. Most are genuinely well-adjusted individuals with enough self-esteem to be able to handle the occasional ribbing or dissenting opinion.

I find it interesting that it seems to be a tenet of most faiths that it is pretty much a given that you WILL be ridiculed, mocked, and your beliefs WILL be questioned by others, and put to the test, and you're supposed to accept this as part of life.

Yet atheists feel that they are somehow above this basic detail of human nature, and shouldn't be subject to what amounts to the same damn thing. Nobody has yet explained to me why Atheists should get a free pass on this specific bite of the shiat sandwich that is life.

/Apatheist.


Well, if you knew with 100% certainty that you were absolutely correct about the nature of the universe and life in general, you would most certainly place yourself above ridicule.
 
MIU
2010-03-03 3:14:28 PM  

MaCoDaMieNuTz: I called it an internet bandwagon simply because I see far more posts, usually on irrelevant subjects, or just regarding extremists, decrying christianity as a whole ludicrous and evil. I don't know where you guys come from but most people I know who consider themselves christians really do not take their religion all that literally or seriously. And I think that's a good thing. They simply identify with the most prominent and attractive spiritual influence in their lives. They like the idea of heaven and trying to be nice like jesus... and that's where it ends.


What you're essentially saying is that they're good people despite their supposed religions, because they ignore/discard much of it in favour of being good people.
 
2010-03-03 3:14:58 PM  
Haha, yeah, Marx is JUST like Stalin and Lenin; his academic socio-economic theorizing was... SO MILITANT!

Those philosophical arguments and intellectual criticisms were: SO ATROCIOUS! SO SCARY! SO... MILITANT!

Does anybody actually read anymore, or do they just pick a side emotively and practice strict loyalty to it, like picking a sports team?
 
2010-03-03 3:14:59 PM  

FishyFred: But they are out there and they are a huge percentage of the population.


[Something Something]
 
2010-03-03 3:18:26 PM  

sip111: FishyFred: 2farknfunny: I love these theism threads, although I still haven't seen a single post explaining why atheism is a religon that makes one lick of sense. I have a garage but no car, but because my garage could hold a car I have a car called no-car? So not having a car is having a car because I have a garage?

I imagine that would make sense to many religious people. They would assert that your garage has a car-shaped hole in it. Therefore, you must have a car. Somewhere.

The rectangular whole left on the a face missing from a rectangular prism is not shaped like a car. Nor is the garage door, the whole left is simply big enough for many different types of cars to get through, and all bikes, and various other trinkets, widgets, old furniture etc.


The problem is with category like the set of all machines with gas engines is not a car, theism is not a religion, neither is atheism, the set containing all machines without gas engines, a car.

It may be true that a many machines have gas engines, like the majority of theist have a religion, not always, similarly it may be true that most machines without engines aren't used for transportation, like most atheist don't have a religion, but some do, humanist, certain Jainist sects, etc.

Some garages may have bikes, tools, rockets, planes, furniture in them, and some no with nothing at all, some people have many foundational philosophies and epistemologies but no religion, some people are theists and have no religion, some people are atheists and have a religion, but many do not and have philosophies etc.

I don't understand what's so hard about basic category formation that people miss apply them so often..
 
2010-03-03 3:19:38 PM  

SirMadness: Another myth busted by thread:

Atheists are not butt-hurt, overly-defensive, cranky, patronizing, individuals full of resentment. Most are genuinely well-adjusted individuals with enough self-esteem to be able to handle the occasional ribbing or dissenting opinion.

I find it interesting that it seems to be a tenet of most faiths that it is pretty much a given that you WILL be ridiculed, mocked, and your beliefs WILL be questioned by others, and put to the test, and you're supposed to accept this as part of life.

Yet atheists feel that they are somehow above this basic detail of human nature, and shouldn't be subject to what amounts to the same damn thing. Nobody has yet explained to me why Atheists should get a free pass on this specific bite of the shiat sandwich that is life.


Just because you're OK with everybody else treating you like shiat, doesn't mean the rest of us are or should be.

/Apatheist.

FTFY.
 
2010-03-03 3:19:52 PM  

SirMadness: I find it interesting that it seems to be a tenet of most faiths that it is pretty much a given that you WILL be ridiculed, mocked, and your beliefs WILL be questioned by others, and put to the test, and you're supposed to accept this as part of life.

Yet atheists feel that they are somehow above this basic detail of human nature, and shouldn't be subject to what amounts to the same damn thing. Nobody has yet explained to me why Atheists should get a free pass on this specific bite of the shiat sandwich that is life.


Ridiculed is one thing. Legislated against is another, especially in a country where the government was designed not to impose religion on its citizens.

Then of course we have systematic attempts by some very vocal religious who intend to destroy public scientific education and appear to have a large following of average citizens agreeing with their basic premise.

And then we have people in high positions of power and influence calling people unpatriotic just because they don't believe in any gods.

And then we still have groups attempting to enforce religious tests for public office. And when atheists raise their voices to complain about it, they get told "stop whining."

Then we have publicly funded religious celebrations in public venues, and when atheists attempt to celebrate in their own way or promote a nonreligious message in the same venue, they get told "you're destroying Christmas and America."

And when atheists, who are spread thin throughout all regions of the country (and world) and all walks of life get together to talk about it on the internet, they're accused of belonging to the "Religion of Atheism" and encouraged to stop talking about it.

And when atheists get annoyed with living in a religion-soaked world and say something snarky to the religious, they're dubbed "Militant" and compared to history's greatest villains.

So yeah, fark you too, pal.
 
2010-03-03 3:20:51 PM  

Thorndyke Barnhard: Haha, yeah, Marx is JUST like Stalin and Lenin; his academic socio-economic theorizing was... SO MILITANT!


His sentence was pretty easy to follow. How did you fail so hard?
 
2010-03-03 3:21:37 PM  

Sun God: I have never met an atheist who didn't believe in Luck, Karma, Reincarnation, Spiritual Healing, Yoga, Vitamins, Chi, Yin, and/or Yang


Yes you have. Stop it. I'm guessing you've met these types in America
 
2010-03-03 3:26:18 PM  
What you're essentially saying is that they're good people despite their supposed religions, because they ignore/discard much of it in favour of being good people.

Yes, but to elaborate, the picking and choosing of already established religious rules and regulations helps develop the ability to independently choose what's right and wrong.

Over 100 million Americans think the Rapture will occur in their lifetimes. Seriously.

Yea, and even if that was correct, how many people actually fear it? Probably none when compared to standard death. Like I said, people tend to say they believe in things they actually don't. Seriously. Tell all atheists they will die in 3 days and watch the prayers fly.
 
2010-03-03 3:28:07 PM  

8ace: Sun God: I have never met an atheist who didn't believe in Luck, Karma, Reincarnation, Spiritual Healing, Yoga, Vitamins, Chi, Yin, and/or Yang

Yes you have. Stop it. I'm guessing you've met these types in America


Sorry, I meant you've never met a person that doesn't believe in any of that stuff? I don't believe that

Why would anyone think any of that is real? Who is the burden of proof on?
 
2010-03-03 3:28:49 PM  

sip111: I don't understand what's so hard about basic category formation that people miss apply them so often..


Americans suck at math.
 
2010-03-03 3:30:50 PM  

BraveNewCheneyWorld: His sentence was pretty easy to follow. How did you fail so hard?


Your fail-gun has a hair trigger. I was talking about People_are_Idiots' comments further up-thread equating an academic theorist - an author - with two autocratic mass-murdering dictators who opportunistically couched their totalitarian megalomania in populist theories to fleece the public they would rule.

I should have more clearly addressed my comment.
 
2010-03-03 3:34:45 PM  

MaCoDaMieNuTz: the picking and choosing of already established religious rules and regulations helps develop the ability to independently choose what's right and wrong.


No, it doesn't. According to many religions - Christianity being one of them - whatever is Godly and/or God-approved is moral. That's how you get people doing stupid shiat like blowing up complete strangers or stoning people to death for the "crimes" of apostasy and blasphemy.

You will be presented with the same choices whether or not you are religious. If you admit you are choosing independently of your holy book, that is almost certainly against the teachings of your religion.

Yea, and even if that was correct, how many people actually fear it? Probably none when compared to standard death.

What do you mean "actually fear it"? Are you doubting their sincerity? Have you ever talked to someone who believes that the Rapture is going to happen? Good luck talking them out of it.
 
2010-03-03 3:43:33 PM  
How could atheism be a religion instead of a group movement as someone said above? Because people seem to be treating science itself as a supernatural entity.

That's not right. I don't think that's even wrong. What are you trying to say here?

Science is a method for answering questions, not the answer itself. Philosophy will always exist and tends to ask rhetorical questions like "why are we here?" Science can answer the how but never the why because the why is not a scientific question, nor is it meant to be. When you pose the question "what happened before the big bang?" and "what happens after death?" they are more of a why question than a how question. Many atheists don't understand the distinction between the two, or at least don't care about any distinction, which is fine, until you say that science is the answer for everything. It can't address the why so its essentially a religious copout, just like how christianity struggles with the how every now and then.
 
2010-03-03 3:49:33 PM  
hey gais, am i too late? wats we talking about...

why is everyone sitting in a circle? and why is the floor all sticky?
 
2010-03-03 3:51:02 PM  
No, it doesn't. According to many religions - Christianity being one of them - whatever is Godly and/or God-approved is moral. That's how you get people doing stupid shiat like blowing up complete strangers or stoning people to death for the "crimes" of apostasy and blasphemy.

Except the vast majority of religious people in the world don't do that, when according to you they should because they were taught it. Like i said, people pick and choose, that's often how religions branched throughout time.

What do you mean "actually fear it"? Are you doubting their sincerity? Have you ever talked to someone who believes that the Rapture is going to happen? Good luck talking them out of it.

Lol, yes I'm doubting their sincerity. Yes i've talked to people who say they are afraid of the Rapture. Somehow little things in life like a car payment seem scarier to them then being judged by the almighty ruler of the universe. So yea, their beliefs are not taken seriously even by themselves. That's why they masturbate and hurt each other's feelings. Because if they didn't do that for a very small lifetime, they could gaurantee themselves happiness for eternity.
 
2010-03-03 3:51:13 PM  

MaCoDaMieNuTz: Science is a method for answering questions, not the answer itself.


If you're referring to people who just like to shout "SCIENCE!" at random, that's just a meme. Nobody actually thinks "science" is a monolithic entity that will provide answers for the "why" questions. As long as people understand that religion is not a good answer for those "why" questions either, we are on the same page.