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(Oregon Live)   Tenured Econ Prof confronts FBI Informant for creating a cabal of students on campus oriented toward violence. Professor is suspended with pay and everybody lawyers up. Then things get weird   (oregonlive.com) divider line
    More: Weird, Mr. Gibbs, FBI, Ian Fleming, East Germany, The Oregonian, international organizations, campus police, KSM  
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17913 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Feb 2010 at 10:57 PM (11 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2010-02-07 12:40:45 AM  

loonatic112358: also, what would have happened if someone screened, what is the frequency kenneth?


Exactly, the professor should have done some basic counter-surveillance and possibly a sting along the opposite lines of what erehwon was suggesting. At the very least some kind of device to jam kenneth bucharest's frequency (I'm thinking vintage marconi transmitter, you know, with the nice varnished wood and brass bits). Then confront the student and hand him the packet.
 
2010-02-07 12:40:53 AM  

leonel: Well it IS Portland State U. If there ever was a liberal version of the absurdity and plain good old fashioned crazy that teabaggers embody, PSU would fit the bill like a glove.


*cough* Berkeley *cough*
 
2010-02-07 12:41:12 AM  

TheyCallThisWork: UnspokenVoice: People who are afraid of inanimate items seem to project a great deal.

You misunderstand. I'm afraid of people. Reason #1 on my list, btw. And, despite that, I don't bring a gun wherever I go. I roll the dice.

Four people have been shot within one block of my apartment in the last two years, yet I don't carry a gun around. Has anyone ever been shot at PSU?


I assume you have a point, it just isn't in there. It is immaterial if people have been shot there in the past. The past doesn't tell you what the future will be. I'm not even stating the veracity of carrying a weapon on school grounds, I'm simply pointing out that you're like the rest and simply projecting the typical troll statements in hopes that no one else gives you any attention. At least you were honest enough to admit you were scared of people. I, for one, appreciate that you are and think you should seek counseling. It isn't good to walk around scared. Scared people shouldn't carry weapons either so you got that going for you.

WFern: UnspokenVoice: People who are afraid of inanimate items seem to project a great deal.

To use an extreme example here, a nuclear bomb is technically just as much of an inanimate item. Guns may be a right, but it doesn't mean there shouldn't be restrictions on them.


They don't scare me either actually. I'm not advocating for unlimited carry in any situation - there are times and places where a weapon is not appropriate. I'm simply pointing out that they're trolling tired points with no merit and are projecting their own fears and frailties on others in hopes that people avoid feeding the troll and hoping that maybe we'll learn more about the incident as people here keep digging into it instead of debating the troll.
 
2010-02-07 12:41:31 AM  

dstrick44: FloydA 2010-02-06 07:31:20 PM
That's disturbing.


This is what's disturbing. From the comments:

Posted by sagerat
February 05, 2010, 7:51PM
Just another fruitcake Portland State "educator." Even if he was correct, the FBI is not the enemy. No one who is not involved in criminal activity has any reason to fear the FBI, CIA or any other law enforcement group.

Is it possible that there are still people out there who are that naive?


No, it's technically true.

It's just that the FBI & CIA have extremely broad parameters as to what "involvement in criminal activities" actually entails. In some cases "breathing in the same building as a potential terrorist" may be adequate.
 
2010-02-07 12:41:43 AM  

The Hammer Is My Penis: When Mr. Hall finished speaking, Mr. Bucharest stood and told the class that it was true that he had been a sniper in the Israeli army, but that Mr. Hall was wrong about other things. He then left.

This isn't even particularly weird for Portland, but I'm an old guy returning student at PSU, so it was interesting.


From that link:

In a letter to the university's student-run newspaper, the Vanguard, Mr. Hall wrote that, based upon his students' reports, "I cannot help but to think that the process currently is being shaped in order to end my tenure at PSU."

The professor is batshiat insane.

Maybe it's a Jewish conspiracy!
 
2010-02-07 12:42:13 AM  

Weaver95: Fellows: So, is the 30-year-old student an FBI informant or what?

we'll probably never know for sure.


Sort of like Jesus?
 
2010-02-07 12:42:17 AM  

Fish in a Barrel: This doesn't concern me at all. I've never heard of it happening, and the probability that anyone would be willing and able to act on such misapprehensions is insignificant.


I was thinking more along the lines of police officers rather than other people who are CCing.
 
2010-02-07 12:42:55 AM  

ZipSplat: Oh come on, we all know you're an information provocateur for the Chinese.


(phonetically)
Bi-zui! BAI-tuo, AN-jing-eedyen! Dong-ma?
 
2010-02-07 12:43:01 AM  

Aunt Crabby: WFern: erewhon: A lot of it is wrong. There are better books; AC can get your fingers blown off.

Doesn't surprise me, though I would never try it anyway. I'm not brave enough to try making TNT and, even if I did it successfully, I'd have no use for it.

I used to have a copy of the AC when I was in high school. I kept it right next to my Satanic Bible. I never tried anything in either of them. I stomped my feet when mom bought me pink sweaters and told me to stop wearing black and to take all that dark goopy mascara off because it made me look like a clown. Good times.

/This was before the goths
//I was extra weird


Yeah, it wasn't called "goth", it was "industrial" at that time... which is why I thought the whole goth movement was funny as hell, and nothing new.

/ Warm Leatherette, anyone?
 
2010-02-07 12:43:03 AM  

TheyCallThisWork: Satanic_Hamster: What truth? You just copied and pasted a standard troll insinuating that anyone who owns/carries a gun has a small penis.

Never copied or pasted anything, and never mentioned your penis.

Beyond "just because," why would you bring a gun to school? It takes significantly less effort to just leave it under your pillow, so why go out of your way?


You. Are. ADORABLE.

And obtuse. But in an adorable way.
 
2010-02-07 12:43:55 AM  

UnspokenVoice: CaptainFatass: Ah, I see that the army of cutouts have come out in this thread to support their coworker.

Really, is this what our taxes are paying for? President Obama, break out that scalpel!

Oh my. You should really elaborate instead of being cryptic. Please fill in the rest of the class.


Look it up yourself, I am not your research director.
 
2010-02-07 12:44:21 AM  

SuperCatBarf: I'm 40, in college, and I have no interaction outside of class with any fellow students--and I've never seen a moment when it might be nice to offer fellow students deals on guns or info on how to make Molotov Cocktails.


Their called "parties". Sometimes alcohol is served. Go to one.

Why are you guys giving any credibility to someone who is crazy and making things up?
 
2010-02-07 12:45:53 AM  

Dr.Zom: Looks like it's his real name.

Link (new window)


With siblings Minerva, Morton, and Zachary. Nice job naming those kids, Paul and Susan.
 
2010-02-07 12:45:53 AM  

CaptainFatass: amok


img8.exs.cxView Full Size


Amok! Amok! Amok! Amok! Amok! Amok!
 
2010-02-07 12:48:23 AM  

CaptainFatass: UnspokenVoice: CaptainFatass: Ah, I see that the army of cutouts have come out in this thread to support their coworker.

Really, is this what our taxes are paying for? President Obama, break out that scalpel!

Oh my. You should really elaborate instead of being cryptic. Please fill in the rest of the class.

Look it up yourself, I am not your research director.


Ah... You think this person truly was a government agent in other words. Lacking any additional information I'm going to have to say that I suspect he was not. At least not in this government. It just has a ring of too much complexity which, I suppose, has never stopped them before.

However... I'm not willing to believe such is likely to be true. I will, on the other hand, accept any evidence that comes out later depending on the sources. Right now? No... My inclination leads me to suspect that the information spouted by a crazy professor is not accurate.

Thanks for letting me know what you think though. I appreciate it though I am skeptical about his involvement in the United States government at this time. I'll await additional evidence/information though.
 
2010-02-07 12:49:21 AM  

CaptainFatass: Ah, I see that the army of cutouts have come out in this thread to support their coworker.


Damn! You're onto us!
 
2010-02-07 12:49:55 AM  
Approves

varifrank.comView Full Size


/hot like a letterbomb
 
2010-02-07 12:50:59 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: And obtuse. But in an adorable way.


Your silence speaks volumes.
 
2010-02-07 12:51:56 AM  

Outshined_One: Fish in a Barrel: This doesn't concern me at all. I've never heard of it happening, and the probability that anyone would be willing and able to act on such misapprehensions is insignificant.

I was thinking more along the lines of police officers rather than other people who are CCing.


Yeah, I include them in that assessment. By the time the cops arrive, the show is usually long over. I'll either be dead or standing by with my gun reholstered and concealed. Either way, there's not much chance things will go terribly wrong at that point.

Anyhow, it's time for me to go to sleep. With one notable exception, it's been a rather mature discussion tonight. I'm not used to that on Fark. :D
 
2010-02-07 12:53:04 AM  

TheyCallThisWork: Satanic_Hamster: And obtuse. But in an adorable way.

Your silence speaks volumes.


And your blatant trolling does as well. What's your point, son?
 
2010-02-07 12:54:27 AM  
I'm pretty dubious about the leap to "FBI informant", but am reserving opinion about this whole affair until more information becomes available. If the story quietly disappears without the Prof receiving significant sanctions, that'll be an interesting development.
 
2010-02-07 12:57:41 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: And your blatant trolling does as well. What's your point, son?


Trolling?

I didn't realize that "you shouldn't carry a gun to school" was a controversial viewpoint.
 
2010-02-07 12:58:39 AM  

TheyCallThisWork: Satanic_Hamster: And your blatant trolling does as well. What's your point, son?

Trolling?

I didn't realize that "you shouldn't carry a gun to school" was a controversial viewpoint.


And your question was nothing but the standard troll insinuation that anyone doing so is either mentally ill or compensating for something.
 
2010-02-07 1:00:59 AM  

lobootomy: The student in question might be an FBI agent


FBI Agent != FBI Informant. Totally different things.
 
2010-02-07 1:03:46 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: TheyCallThisWork: Satanic_Hamster: And your blatant trolling does as well. What's your point, son?

Trolling?

I didn't realize that "you shouldn't carry a gun to school" was a controversial viewpoint.

And your question was nothing but the standard troll insinuation that anyone doing so is either mentally ill or compensating for something.


So, the logical reason for carrying a concealed weapon on campus is...? What; got a hot hunting date right after class?

Thirty-year-old student, inciting student "activists" to commit violent and illegal activities? Yeah, this smells like the remnants of COINTELPRO.
 
2010-02-07 1:05:11 AM  

snowmayne: RanDomino: FloydA
discrete discreat

FTFY

/pet peeve

Really? I had to look it up and didn't find "discreat" as an actual word. I did find "discrete" and "discreet" and it turns out that "discreet" would have been the appropriate choice. Might want to reconsider your pet peeve. Thanks, I've finally realized the difference in the spelling and meaning of the two valid words.


You don't come hear here often, do you?

FTFM

/pet peeve
//do you get it now?
 
2010-02-07 1:06:27 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: TheyCallThisWork: Satanic_Hamster: And obtuse. But in an adorable way.

Your silence speaks volumes.

And your blatant trolling does as well. What's your point, son?


I think they've been rather nullified at this point. I'd get into details but they're too long to type in one sitting - I've got beer to drink. Either way, I carry openly or I conceal it in public as I'm allowed to, if I feel the situation warrants not offending anyone. I live in a VERY remote area of Maine. I don't carry it out of fear. I have no intention of using it on a human though I would if I had to counter an obvious threat. It is that there is almost always something "in season" here in Maine and I tend to live off the land as much as I can. Hunting with a pistol is not the easiest but if one is patient (and uses a decent sidearm) it is quite possible. It is also much easier than lugging around a rifle strapped to your back.

*sighs*

But no... I must be compensating or scared or something. When I go to speak at UMF I am very likely still armed. That must be because I'm afraid of a bunch of future teachers or geeks. Practicality can't have anything to do with it. Nope... Gotta be something they project.

Anyhow, I could go on but I have beer to drink. I think the troll has had enough attention.
 
2010-02-07 1:06:40 AM  

CaptainFatass: So, the logical reason for carrying a concealed weapon on campus is...? What; got a hot hunting date right after class?

Thirty-year-old student, inciting student "activists" to commit violent and illegal activities? Yeah, this smells like the remnants of COINTELPRO.


That, or the deluded fantasies of a crazy professor with a history of reporting phantom threats to the campus police?
 
2010-02-07 1:08:34 AM  
fta: And then he proceeded to say a lot of unpleasant things about Bucharest," Condron said. For instance, he said, Hall called Bucharest a killer

Without substantially more information, it sounds like the student is a run-of-the mill insecure guy, and the professor if a full-on retard whackjob tinfoil hatter who has committed several counts of prosecutable slander (Unless it actually turns out to be true that Bucharest is a secret super-ninja contract killer)
 
2010-02-07 1:10:34 AM  

CaptainFatass: Yeah, this smells like the remnants of COINTELPRO.


Please don't help me. You sound completely effin' crazy.
 
2010-02-07 1:10:36 AM  
Hm, I tried to demonstrate the Rotsky and pulled a fail mixing my homonyms. Does that make it an even better Rotsky?
 
2010-02-07 1:11:31 AM  

mordantkitten: Hm, I tried to demonstrate the Rotsky and pulled a fail mixing my homonyms. Does that make it an even better Rotsky?


You did confuse the hell out of me there...I was like...how the hell is that going to help them understand. You did it correctly. :)
 
2010-02-07 1:12:34 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: CaptainFatass: So, the logical reason for carrying a concealed weapon on campus is...? What; got a hot hunting date right after class?

Thirty-year-old student, inciting student "activists" to commit violent and illegal activities? Yeah, this smells like the remnants of COINTELPRO.

That, or the deluded fantasies of a crazy professor with a history of reporting phantom threats to the campus police?


Ah, and here we go with the character assassinations, right on schedule for you cheap and obvious government shills. What about the students who expressed their concern to the professor about this obvious nutcase-are they, too, "crazy" with a "history of reporting phantom threats"?
 
2010-02-07 1:14:43 AM  
You know what doesn't belong on campus? Political T-shirts on non poli-sci students. I mean, it's not that I'm against free speech, I support it, but people going to school are there to learn whatever is being taught, not to engage in free speech.
...
Political speech is a tool used for supporting oppression. It does not belong to the hearts and minds of an 18-year-old getting an education. "Just because" is not a reasonable explanation for why someone would support such controversial subjects.

However, here are some:

1) I think my opinion is more valid than anyone elses
2) They should shut their fool mouths if it wouldn't cause them to suffocate because they're mouthbreathers
3) I have political delusions of grandeur
4) I'm basically unstable.
5) I think big words might impress someone (such as in south park the movie: I can be political too)
6) I'm overcompensating for my lack of an agreeable personality
 
2010-02-07 1:15:13 AM  
Look, they're both nuts, the students who didn't think the wacko student who was always talking about guns & bombs should have been at least MENTIONED to the cops are psycho, and all of you worried that wacko student might "really" have been COINTELPRO need to add another layer to your tinfoil hat before the cosmic mind rays get to you.

I find it most alarming that all the people who "knew" Zach Bucharest from Budapest or whatever was running around talking about the next Red uprising didn't seem to feel this warranted any kind of mention to the authorities. Because these are the same people who, after ol' Zach finally shot up his dorm or half the Poli-Sci class, were going to say "Oh, but he seemed like such a normal guy," or "OMG, we never saw it coming."

Meanwhile, all you flaky gun nuts here would be going on and on about how more should have been done, why couldn't he have been stopped, they should never have let him blah blah blah. Yeah, FINALLY one of these bozos got stopped (maybe) before it was too late...by accident...because his prof was crazier than him...and not because anyone who knew anything actually did something about it.
 
2010-02-07 1:16:30 AM  

CaptainFatass: What about the students who expressed their concern to the professor about this obvious nutcase-are they, too, "crazy" with a "history of reporting phantom threats"?


Where did it say the students told he professor they thought the guy was some sort of covert government informant?

Your tin foil hat must be made of some good stuff.
 
2010-02-07 1:18:24 AM  

UnspokenVoice: I think they've been rather nullified at this point. I'd get into details but they're too long to type in one sitting - I've got beer to drink. Either way, I carry openly or I conceal it in public as I'm allowed to, if I feel the situation warrants not offending anyone. I live in a VERY remote area of Maine. I don't carry it out of fear. I have no intention of using it on a human though I would if I had to counter an obvious threat. It is that there is almost always something "in season" here in Maine and I tend to live off the land as much as I can. Hunting with a pistol is not the easiest but if one is patient (and uses a decent sidearm) it is quite possible. It is also much easier than lugging around a rifle strapped to your back.


Next time you bag something at the UMF campus, I'll take back all my comments. I hear the campus is lush, and students often see rabbit and squirrel nearly year-round, with some migratory fowl starting in March and April.
 
2010-02-07 1:19:12 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Meanwhile, all you flaky gun nuts here would be going on and on about how more should have been done, why couldn't he have been stopped, they should never have let him blah blah blah. Yeah, FINALLY one of these bozos got stopped (maybe) before it was too late...by accident


So you live in a country where you are guilty of an act that was never even committed?

Most cases of people who seem a little gun/kill crazy never amount to anything. You don't hear about those on the news though.

You know, most planes land safely too.
 
2010-02-07 1:21:44 AM  

Tawnos: You know what doesn't belong on campus?


LOL I was hoping we'd nullified the idiocy but then you had to go and do that. Welcome to my favorite's list. I'd offer you a beer but the last one I poured onto the DSL box didn't really work out so well.
 
2010-02-07 1:24:51 AM  

Tawnos: You know what doesn't belong on campus? Political T-shirts on non poli-sci students. I mean, it's not that I'm against free speech, I support it, but people going to school are there to learn whatever is being taught, not to engage in free speech.


Have you gone to college?

If you have, then you will remember that the whole point of it is the exchange of ideas through writing, reading and speaking. It's the perfect place to take advantage of your first amendment rights.

Second amendment rights are best exercised at a gun range, where, I presume, charged political discussion is not encouraged.
 
2010-02-07 1:25:59 AM  

CaptainFatass: Satanic_Hamster: CaptainFatass: So, the logical reason for carrying a concealed weapon on campus is...? What; got a hot hunting date right after class?

Thirty-year-old student, inciting student "activists" to commit violent and illegal activities? Yeah, this smells like the remnants of COINTELPRO.

That, or the deluded fantasies of a crazy professor with a history of reporting phantom threats to the campus police?

Ah, and here we go with the character assassinations, right on schedule for you cheap and obvious government shills. What about the students who expressed their concern to the professor about this obvious nutcase-are they, too, "crazy" with a "history of reporting phantom threats"?


[image from pix.motivatedphotos.com too old to be available]

Yet you got some bites on your Obama comment (not hard on fark, seeing as how they're mostly liberal). I give you a 4/10.
 
2010-02-07 1:26:14 AM  

Outshined_One: Elbarfo: TheyCallThisWork: Personally, I'd like to know if one of my classmates is packing heat. It's just effin' weird. It's Portland. What's he afraid of? Owl attacks?

I'm sure they thought that in Virginia, too.

Honest question, what are the odds someone will Jack Bauer their way out of that sort of situation?

There have been times my mind has wandered about what would happen if I ever found myself in a scenario like that while conceal carrying. If I heard gunfire behind me, my first instinct would be to take cover. My second instinct would be to get the hell out of there. My third instinct would be to find a really good hiding place. Pulling out my gun and returning fire would be pretty far down the list. Doing so would make me an immediate and, depending on the circumstances, easy target for the gunman. I also would rather not hit any bystanders in returning fire. Moreover, if someone else with a gun sees me stand up and open fire, I could be mistaken for the gunman, or potentially an accomplice. All of those would be really bad things.

I understand the argument for CC as a deterrent against crime. I don't understand the argument for CC because it'll make you be the hero if someone decides to shoot up a school or office building or whatever.



Why would you be carrying in the first place then? There are always those considerations, and they're spelled out quite clearly when you take the classes to get the carry permit. At least, they are where I live. They also spell out quite clearly what to do if you actually do shoot someone, and more importantly, what *not* to do. Luckily, TN has laws to protect permit holders in that exact scenario...some states don't.

Let me get this straight...If you saw someone going around murdering innocents, and had the means to stop them, you would simply run away? If so, I don't believe you to be the type to carry anyway.

As far as carrying to be a hero, that's not really the argument I'm trying to make. It's not at all about being a hero, it's more about not allowing yourself to be a victim. In the doing of that, you might end up as one, but that's not the goal. Not mine, at least.

In the 12 years I have carried, I have only had to draw my weapon once. I was in a convenience store when a guy with a giant bowie knife decided he wanted to rob it. I held the guy at gunpoint for close to 10 minutes until the police arrived. 10 of the longest minutes of my life.

I got a few pats on the back, and it was back to life as normal. Both before and after that, I have had no reason to even think about the gun on my hip....but I'm glad it's there.
 
2010-02-07 1:27:37 AM  
The main reason for the school having a policy against guns on campus is liability. If they can say it's against the rules then they have something to defend in court.
 
2010-02-07 1:28:00 AM  

srhp29: CaptainFatass: What about the students who expressed their concern to the professor about this obvious nutcase-are they, too, "crazy" with a "history of reporting phantom threats"?

Where did it say the students told he professor they thought the guy was some sort of covert government informant?

Your tin foil hat must be made of some good stuff.


The guy was trying to convince students to make Molotov cocktails and buy illegal weapons. They went with their concerns to the professor, who has experience with covert government informants and, based on his experience, determined that he was a covert government informant. This is how the system is SUPPOSED to work!
 
2010-02-07 1:28:21 AM  

TheyCallThisWork: Next time you bag something at the UMF campus, I'll take back all my comments. I hear the campus is lush, and students often see rabbit and squirrel nearly year-round, with some migratory fowl starting in March and April.


I'd rather obey the law and maintain my right to bear arms, thanks. The drive is a two hour drive south of me and covers quite a few miles. There are more than one possible destinations and activities in a single route. It must be difficult to live in such a black and white world. Fortunately you have the ability to project your fears onto other people. Personally, I'm rather grateful to be sane and capable of engaging in critical thinking. Don't let the people scare you too much.
 
2010-02-07 1:28:37 AM  

UnspokenVoice: Tawnos: You know what doesn't belong on campus?

LOL I was hoping we'd nullified the idiocy but then you had to go and do that. Welcome to my favorite's list. I'd offer you a beer but the last one I poured onto the DSL box didn't really work out so well.


'sokay, I have my own supply here. Hard stuff tonight - woodford reserve bourbon right now. Enjoy your back-n-forth, I like to parody such thoughts but substitute other rights we often take for granted, but now it's time for some MW2.
 
2010-02-07 1:29:23 AM  

CaptainFatass: The guy was trying to convince students to make Molotov cocktails and buy illegal weapons. They went with their concerns to the professor


Really? Did the students know their "ECON" teacher had experience with Govt informants? Do you really think your teacher is who you should go to if you really think someone might be dangerous to society? Really? An Econ Professor?

Pull your hat down further, seriously.
 
2010-02-07 1:31:35 AM  

UnspokenVoice: Don't let the people scare you too much.


Watch out for ducks. ;)
 
2010-02-07 1:32:52 AM  

TheyCallThisWork: Tawnos: You know what doesn't belong on campus? Political T-shirts on non poli-sci students. I mean, it's not that I'm against free speech, I support it, but people going to school are there to learn whatever is being taught, not to engage in free speech.

Have you gone to college?

If you have, then you will remember that the whole point of it is the exchange of ideas through writing, reading and speaking. It's the perfect place to take advantage of your first amendment rights.

Second amendment rights are best exercised at a gun range, where, I presume, charged political discussion is not encouraged.


Cal Poly: SLO

You obviously don't know the purpose of the second amendment (or, in my new state of residence's case, Article 1 Section 24). It's not to be able to hunt or shoot guns at a range. You also are incorrect in assuming that vibrant political discussion is discouraged there. Usually it happens after, with beer, but it definitely happens and is even encouraged.
 
2010-02-07 1:32:58 AM  
Is it Zaki Bucharest?

Link (new window)
 
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