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(Oregon Live)   Tenured Econ Prof confronts FBI Informant for creating a cabal of students on campus oriented toward violence. Professor is suspended with pay and everybody lawyers up. Then things get weird   (oregonlive.com) divider line
    More: Weird, Mr. Gibbs, FBI, Ian Fleming, East Germany, The Oregonian, international organizations, campus police, KSM  
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17913 clicks; posted to Main » on 06 Feb 2010 at 10:57 PM (11 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2010-02-06 11:58:53 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: To be honest? Mostly it was because I legally could. No one knew I did it, I didn't brag about it, I didn't behave like one of those jackasses who NEEDS to let EVERYONE know he's armed.


Same, basically. I normally have a gun on my anyhow. It's vanishingly unlikely I'll ever need a gun, but I like having it around. Even if I had wanted to, it would've been logistically difficult to disarm for class.
 
2010-02-06 11:59:02 PM  
PSU is good at accumulating loonies. I had to threaten legal action when I wanted to quit a job because my supervisor had a habit of throwing things at my head.
/I tried to, y'know, get it to stop through other ways (Yeah, you really can't spell who cares without HR) but quitting became the only option.
//cool story
///stories, I has them
 
2010-02-07 12:00:01 AM  
Looks like it's his real name.

Link (new window)
 
2010-02-07 12:02:26 AM  

MikeFallopian: platedlizard:
Not really. If you were to google my real name you would get the same results. All it means is that he's been careful to keep that information off the web. I bet he uses a pseudonym online.

Oh, really? Well, I just searched your name and got tons of hits - everything from image galleries to encyclopedia articles about you. You're not half as clever as you think, Mr. Lizard.


Oh SH--

Don't tell anyone, my cover is blown.
 
2010-02-07 12:04:04 AM  
img195.imageshack.usView Full Size
 
2010-02-07 12:05:29 AM  

Fish in a Barrel: Satanic_Hamster: To be honest? Mostly it was because I legally could. No one knew I did it, I didn't brag about it, I didn't behave like one of those jackasses who NEEDS to let EVERYONE know he's armed.

Same, basically. I normally have a gun on my anyhow. It's vanishingly unlikely I'll ever need a gun, but I like having it around. Even if I had wanted to, it would've been logistically difficult to disarm for class.


Plus, in Virginia at the time, it was 10 bucks for a concealed carry permit that was good for five years. No reason NOT to get one. :0

Also; Virginia Tech had a lot of Asians. So me carrying concealed in class was FORESIGHT! :0
 
2010-02-07 12:07:33 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: Also; Virginia Tech had a lot of Asians. So me carrying concealed in class was FORESIGHT! :0


What are you, a Korean War vet?
 
2010-02-07 12:07:51 AM  

Elbarfo: TheyCallThisWork: Personally, I'd like to know if one of my classmates is packing heat. It's just effin' weird. It's Portland. What's he afraid of? Owl attacks?

I'm sure they thought that in Virginia, too.


Honest question, what are the odds someone will Jack Bauer their way out of that sort of situation?

There have been times my mind has wandered about what would happen if I ever found myself in a scenario like that while conceal carrying. If I heard gunfire behind me, my first instinct would be to take cover. My second instinct would be to get the hell out of there. My third instinct would be to find a really good hiding place. Pulling out my gun and returning fire would be pretty far down the list. Doing so would make me an immediate and, depending on the circumstances, easy target for the gunman. I also would rather not hit any bystanders in returning fire. Moreover, if someone else with a gun sees me stand up and open fire, I could be mistaken for the gunman, or potentially an accomplice. All of those would be really bad things.

I understand the argument for CC as a deterrent against crime. I don't understand the argument for CC because it'll make you be the hero if someone decides to shoot up a school or office building or whatever.
 
2010-02-07 12:08:32 AM  

erewhon: I have to say, I think if some prof went off like this (instead of, say, asking if I'd ever worked at Fort Detrick in a quiet, sincere voice like that microbiology prof), I'd have to go with the flow and say something like "Sir, I can neither confirm nor deny the accusation which you have made" with a deadpan face just to see if I could rev him up more. If I had some inkling he was GOING to do this, I'd have prepared with a lot of personal info on the guy and toss out cryptic comments on anything reasonably private I could come up with in addition to the stoneface routine. Nothing would be more fun than to see the guy come totally unglued.


Or whispering into your traveling coffee mug while your eyes never leave the good Prof, or just blinking Morse Code to him every time minutes?

/ 24kt Youtube gold.
 
2010-02-07 12:09:20 AM  

Outshined_One: I don't understand the argument for CC because it'll make you be the hero if someone decides to shoot up a school or office building or whatever.


I'm sorry, but if you are not willing to use it in a situation like that or even intending, then why the fark carry it at all?
 
2010-02-07 12:10:34 AM  

Story: Or whispering into your traveling coffee mug while your eyes never leave the good Prof, or just blinking Morse Code to him every time minutes?

/ 24kt Youtube gold.


And be sure to use the phrase, "End transmission."
 
2010-02-07 12:13:12 AM  
Apparently he goes by tzhkperez online.

If you search that handle you can find a cached version of PSU's Student Vet Association that confirms his email address.

That leads you to this youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/tzhkperez

FBI informant? No idea. But anyone who puts Sniping as their #1 Hobby is worth a look into after these allegations.
 
2010-02-07 12:14:05 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: To be honest? Mostly it was because I legally could.


Fish in a Barrel: Same, basically.



A handgun is a tool for causing death. It does not belong in the backpack of an 18-year-old getting an education. "Just because" is not a reasonable explanation.

Here are some better ones:

1) I live in fear of others.
2) I think I'm a secret bad-ass.
3) I have heroic delusions.
4) I'm basically unstable.
5) I think this might impress someone.
6) I'm overcompensating for other aspects of my personality.

"Just because" is an answer to the question: "Why did you wear tube socks with blue stripes?"
 
2010-02-07 12:14:07 AM  

WFern: erewhon: A lot of it is wrong. There are better books; AC can get your fingers blown off.

Doesn't surprise me, though I would never try it anyway. I'm not brave enough to try making TNT and, even if I did it successfully, I'd have no use for it.


I used to have a copy of the AC when I was in high school. I kept it right next to my Satanic Bible. I never tried anything in either of them. I stomped my feet when mom bought me pink sweaters and told me to stop wearing black and to take all that dark goopy mascara off because it made me look like a clown. Good times.

/This was before the goths
//I was extra weird
 
2010-02-07 12:14:28 AM  
Dominion infiltration?
On the case!

i640.photobucket.com
 
2010-02-07 12:14:34 AM  

RanDomino: FloydA
discrete discreat

FTFY

/pet peeve


Really? I had to look it up and didn't find "discreat" as an actual word. I did find "discrete" and "discreet" and it turns out that "discreet" would have been the appropriate choice. Might want to reconsider your pet peeve. Thanks, I've finally realized the difference in the spelling and meaning of the two valid words.
 
2010-02-07 12:14:35 AM  

xuanzhiyouxuan: Satanic_Hamster: Also; Virginia Tech had a lot of Asians. So me carrying concealed in class was FORESIGHT! :0

What are you, a Korean War vet?


No. But 100 percent of the murders at Virginia Tech in the last 20 years were committed by Asians.
 
2010-02-07 12:16:41 AM  

TheyCallThisWork: Satanic_Hamster: To be honest? Mostly it was because I legally could.

Fish in a Barrel: Same, basically.


A handgun is a tool for causing death. It does not belong in the backpack of an 18-year-old getting an education. "Just because" is not a reasonable explanation.

Here are some better ones:

1) I live in fear of others.
2) I think I'm a secret bad-ass.
3) I have heroic delusions.
4) I'm basically unstable.
5) I think this might impress someone.
6) I'm overcompensating for other aspects of my personality.

"Just because" is an answer to the question: "Why did you wear tube socks with blue stripes?"


What kind of idiot would keep a pistol in their backpack?
 
2010-02-07 12:16:48 AM  
 
2010-02-07 12:17:25 AM  

Weaver95: I wonder what led the professor to believe that the guy was an FBI informant in the first place?


The radio in his head went crazy any time the guy was around.
 
2010-02-07 12:18:43 AM  

snowmayne: Really? I had to look it up and didn't find "discreat" as an actual word. I did find "discrete" and "discreet" and it turns out that "discreet" would have been the appropriate choice. Might want to reconsider your pet peeve. Thanks, I've finally realized the difference in the spelling and meaning of the two valid words.


They were joking. Relax.
 
2010-02-07 12:18:46 AM  

srhp29: Outshined_One: I don't understand the argument for CC because it'll make you be the hero if someone decides to shoot up a school or office building or whatever.

I'm sorry, but if you are not willing to use it in a situation like that or even intending, then why the fark carry it at all?


A lot of the time, just showing a potential run of the mill criminal (mugger, rapist, burglar, whatever) your gun is all you need to stop them.

I think what happened at VA Tech was a special situation.
 
2010-02-07 12:21:49 AM  
FSM, you people need to lighten up, including my green friended people that don't they are green.

Dam. Seriously.

Take a deep breath and realize this was about an ECONOMY PROFESSOR. ROFL. As though they have any relevance.
 
2010-02-07 12:24:10 AM  

WickerNipple: Apparently he goes by tzhkperez online.

If you search that handle you can find a cached version of PSU's Student Vet Association that confirms his email address.

That leads you to this youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/tzhkperez

FBI informant? No idea. But anyone who puts Sniping as their #1 Hobby is worth a look into after these allegations.


Nice. His Youtube profile info raises all sorts of red flags. Sounds like a budding Israeli (anti)terrorist out for bloodshed.
 
2010-02-07 12:24:14 AM  

TheyCallThisWork: Satanic_Hamster: To be honest? Mostly it was because I legally could.

Fish in a Barrel: Same, basically.


A handgun is a tool for causing death. It does not belong in the backpack of an 18-year-old getting an education. "Just because" is not a reasonable explanation.

Here are some better ones:

1) I live in fear of others.
2) I think I'm a secret bad-ass.
3) I have heroic delusions.
4) I'm basically unstable.
5) I think this might impress someone.
6) I'm overcompensating for other aspects of my personality.

"Just because" is an answer to the question: "Why did you wear tube socks with blue stripes?"


People who are afraid of inanimate items seem to project a great deal.
 
2010-02-07 12:24:24 AM  

Outshined_One: srhp29: Outshined_One: I don't understand the argument for CC because it'll make you be the hero if someone decides to shoot up a school or office building or whatever.

I'm sorry, but if you are not willing to use it in a situation like that or even intending, then why the fark carry it at all?

A lot of the time, just showing a potential run of the mill criminal (mugger, rapist, burglar, whatever) your gun is all you need to stop them.

I think what happened at VA Tech was a special situation.


My take on it, as a VT grad (2001) who carried concealed, legally, to class:
* The gun ban wasn't enacted till 2003.
* The gun ban was never enforced but known to students.
* The gun ban is impossible to enforce.
* The gun ban isn't likely legal, according ot the VT provost.
* The gun ban has never been enforced. Not a single criminal charge or student judicial charge.
* Cho didn't have a concealed carry permit and obviously didn't care about the ban.
* The number of people killed or injured at Virginia Tech before the ban before it came into effect was... Zero.

The ban only stopped people who gave a damn about the rules and didn't want to face possible expulsion/harassment from the school for violating the ban. The ban on concealed carry at VT didn't save a single life.
 
2010-02-07 12:24:50 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: What kind of idiot would keep a pistol in their backpack?


I don't expect you to have a revelation on the internet, but, maybe tonight you can have a little introspection time and consider the truth in what I posted. School isn't the place for guns. Pencils are the more appropriate tool there.
 
2010-02-07 12:24:54 AM  

Story: Or whispering into your traveling coffee mug while your eyes never leave the good Prof, or just blinking Morse Code to him every time minutes?


Oh, I think the very first thing would be to start wearing one of those nifty Secret Service curly-wired earpieces to class. Maybe some reflective shades, you might make a really interesting custom mug, not too overt, maybe a logo with Quantico Fall '92 or something. Wear a cryptic t-shirt to class. I've got some good ones that are obviously military but not obviously what, I imagine I could concoct a good one or two, although it would be easier if he'd accused me of belonging to something other than FBI - I don't know enough about them offhand to fake it well. I have lots of DIA and DISA paraphernalia which looks cool because people generally don't recognize it other than it's government-y, and a big selection of old Army crap of various stages of my life. A selection of TS project-oriented stuff that only the cognoscenti would get but they LOOK cool. Not any Feeb stuff, though.

If pushed to it, I know a few agents and could likely swap for something. You wouldn't want something blatant like a field jacket. Maybe a "DC office 10K fun run March 2002" tshirt with an FBI logo on or the like, that's more convincing IMO.

Subtlety is all.

/renting a black Yukon and putting fake GS plates on to park outside his house - priceless
 
2010-02-07 12:24:57 AM  

erewhon: Although, I've got to be truthful, I've had professors ask me something similar even when they didn't know my background, due to the questions I asked in class.


Oh come on, we all know you're an information provocateur for the Chinese.
 
2010-02-07 12:26:15 AM  

srhp29:

They were joking. Relax.


It doesn't get any more relaxing than this tub of jello.
 
2010-02-07 12:27:40 AM  

TheyCallThisWork: Satanic_Hamster: What kind of idiot would keep a pistol in their backpack?

I don't expect you to have a revelation on the internet, but, maybe tonight you can have a little introspection time and consider the truth in what I posted. School isn't the place for guns. Pencils are the more appropriate tool there.


What truth? You just copied and pasted a standard troll insinuating that anyone who owns/carries a gun has a small penis.
 
2010-02-07 12:27:42 AM  

snowmayne: RanDomino: FloydA
discrete discreat

FTFY

/pet peeve


Really? I had to look it up and didn't find "discreat" as an actual word. I did find "discrete" and "discreet" and it turns out that "discreet" would have been the appropriate choice. Might want to too reconsider your pet peeve. Thanks, I've finally realized the difference in the spelling and meaning of the two to valid words.


FTFY

/pet peeve
 
2010-02-07 12:27:47 AM  

dstrick44: This is what's disturbing. From the comments:

Posted by sagerat
February 05, 2010, 7:51PM
Just another fruitcake Portland State "educator." Even if he was correct, the FBI is not the enemy. No one who is not involved in criminal activity has any reason to fear the FBI, CIA or any other law enforcement group.

Is it possible that there are still people out there who are that naive?


Maybe it's a cop with a really poor "disguise" online.

img29.imageshack.usView Full Size


Aunt Crabby: I used to have a copy of the AC when I was in high school. I kept it right next to my Satanic Bible. I never tried anything in either of them. I stomped my feet when mom bought me pink sweaters and told me to stop wearing black and to take all that dark goopy mascara off because it made me look like a clown. Good times.

/This was before the goths
//I was extra weird


Don't feel bad. When I was about 17, I bought several books by this tool (new window) until I matured and got rid of them. I cringe to think of that sh-t now.
 
2010-02-07 12:28:01 AM  

ZipSplat: Oh come on, we all know you're an information provocateur for the Chinese.


WTF, he's horning in on my gig.
 
2010-02-07 12:31:43 AM  
Ah, I see that the army of cutouts have come out in this thread to support their coworker.

Really, is this what our taxes are paying for? President Obama, break out that scalpel!
 
2010-02-07 12:32:43 AM  

sithon: maybe dominionist or terrorist trying to recruit from impressionable youth.


Remember,

A Dominionist is someone who wants to kill those who don't agree with their specific religious and cultural ideals and wish to impose them on others by force.

A Terrorist is someone who wants to kill those who don't agree with their specific religious and cultural ideals and wish to impose them on others by force.

There is a world of difference: One of them is a Real Americantm, the other is not. Get it straight.
 
2010-02-07 12:32:44 AM  

UnspokenVoice: snowmayne: RanDomino: FloydA
discrete discreat

FTFY

/pet peeve


Really? I had to look it up and didn't find "discreat" as an actual word. I did find "discrete" and "discreet" and it turns out that "discreet" would have been the appropriate choice. Might want to too reconsider your pet peeve. Thanks, I've finally realized the difference in the spelling and meaning of the two to valid words.

FTFY

/pet peeve


I think I just crapped in my jello.
 
2010-02-07 12:32:46 AM  

UnspokenVoice: People who are afraid of inanimate items seem to project a great deal.


You misunderstand. I'm afraid of people. Reason #1 on my list, btw. And, despite that, I don't bring a gun wherever I go. I roll the dice.

Four people have been shot within one block of my apartment in the last two years, yet I don't carry a gun around. Has anyone ever been shot at PSU?
 
2010-02-07 12:33:11 AM  

Arthur Jumbles: There were many cases in the 60s of the FBI and local police departments sending in undercover agents to infiltrate student groups and try to influence them to commit acts of violence so they could be arrested. If the professor truly believed the student was an undercover agent then going through the proper chain of command would have been useless..... by going public in front of a large group of people he virtually assured that the guy's cover was blown.

Sure, he might have harmed his career if he's proved wrong but he did it in a non-violent way and no one will suffer except himself. Wish we had more people who were willing to make self-sacrfices for personal freedom and liberty.


That's absolute horseshiat. He played out some retarded persecution fantasy in class and he'll probably lose his job over it, which he should.

The student in question might be an FBI agent, he might be a nutjob, or he might be just a student. The professor doesn't know, and calling the student out in class is bullshiat. I'm guessing the student is a maladjusted 30 year old who finally got the means to go to college and has a screw loose.

The professor is succumbing to his own overblown ego as a "defender of freedom". Even if he was, there's no reason to do it in class. Actually, if he had any concern at all about the student, he wouldn't do it in class.
 
2010-02-07 12:33:29 AM  
I think all of YOU are FBI - Farked, But Interesting.
 
2010-02-07 12:33:44 AM  

UnspokenVoice: People who are afraid of inanimate items seem to project a great deal.


To use an extreme example here, a nuclear bomb is technically just as much of an inanimate item. Guns may be a right, but it doesn't mean there shouldn't be restrictions on them.
 
2010-02-07 12:33:48 AM  

CaptainFatass: Ah, I see that the army of cutouts have come out in this thread to support their coworker.

Really, is this what our taxes are paying for? President Obama, break out that scalpel!


Uhhhhh... What, exactly, does Obama have to do with this?
 
2010-02-07 12:33:59 AM  

CaptainFatass: Ah, I see that the army of cutouts have come out in this thread to support their coworker.

Really, is this what our taxes are paying for? President Obama, break out that scalpel!


Oh my. You should really elaborate instead of being cryptic. Please fill in the rest of the class.
 
2010-02-07 12:34:00 AM  
also, what would have happened if someone screened, what is the frequency kenneth?
 
2010-02-07 12:34:41 AM  
I failed to find the part where the teacher was sexing it up with one of his students. I call shenanigans!
 
2010-02-07 12:35:45 AM  

loonatic112358: also, what would have happened if someone screened Screamed, what is the frequency kenneth?


ftfm

and i should probably start working towards my bed
 
2010-02-07 12:36:30 AM  

Outshined_One: Honest question, what are the odds someone will Jack Bauer their way out of that sort of situation?


There have only been a handful of cases where concealed carry has met spree shooter. Of those I can recall off-hand, success rates are fairly low. Maybe 1/3 or 1/2 succeed in stopping the shooter. Of course, that's better than nothing. Spree shootings are so rare, though, that it's rather silly the amount of energy and breath that gets wasted arguing about it in the context of concealed carry.

There have been times my mind has wandered about what would happen if I ever found myself in a scenario like that while conceal carrying. If I heard gunfire behind me, my first instinct would be to take cover. My second instinct would be to get the hell out of there. My third instinct would be to find a really good hiding place.

Which is a pretty fine plan.

Pulling out my gun and returning fire would be pretty far down the list. Doing so would make me an immediate and, depending on the circumstances, easy target for the gunman.

Returning fire shouldn't be your first reaction. At the very least you want some cover or concealment to make yourself less of a target. What you do after that depends on your priorities and capabilities. Not to long ago there was a spree shooting in a mall that also happened to have two people carrying concealed gun. One of these men chose to get his family behind cover and then stayed put until the shooting stopped. That's a perfectly valid choice. The other guy confronted the shooter and discovered two things: that he couldn't bring himself to shoot a teenager, and that the psycho had no such problems shooting him.

I also would rather not hit any bystanders in returning fire.

That's actually very rare. Believe it or not, in shootings civilians actually have a much lower rate of innocent victims than the police.

Moreover, if someone else with a gun sees me stand up and open fire, I could be mistaken for the gunman, or potentially an accomplice. All of those would be really bad things.

This doesn't concern me at all. I've never heard of it happening, and the probability that anyone would be willing and able to act on such misapprehensions is insignificant.

I understand the argument for CC as a deterrent against crime. I don't understand the argument for CC because it'll make you be the hero if someone decides to shoot up a school or office building or whatever.

I'm with you. It's just not a common enough occurrence to concern myself with, and I think it's a red herring. That's not to say that I think CC is useless in a spree shooting, I'm just not going to use it as a principal argument for CC.
 
2010-02-07 12:38:00 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: What truth? You just copied and pasted a standard troll insinuating that anyone who owns/carries a gun has a small penis.


Never copied or pasted anything, and never mentioned your penis.

Beyond "just because," why would you bring a gun to school? It takes significantly less effort to just leave it under your pillow, so why go out of your way?
 
2010-02-07 12:40:03 AM  
I find this fascinating. I know PSU has students end up working for government suppliers, and that "coulda-been" hippies are now America-hating anti-rich hip-hop drones.

I think the prof, if not completely right, should be taken seriously. I doubt he made the whole thing up. The fact that the student, age 30, has a lawyer, was offering gun access and bomb instructions, and apparently being kind of a dumbass about it, smacks of some kind of weird setup.

I'm 40, in college, and I have no interaction outside of class with any fellow students--and I've never seen a moment when it might be nice to offer fellow students deals on guns or info on how to make Molotov Cocktails. The student in question here is either a farking weirdo or a FBI/CIA plant with no grip (as would be expected) on what kids ten years younger think about anything, let along his peers. He's doing a job and failing----this seems consistent with prior FBI/CIA attempts and infiltration.

PSU is probably a good testing ground for finding young radicals prime for grooming: relatively lots of internet experience, extremes in political opinion, high unemployment, presence of Earth First, etc.

Interesting story.
 
2010-02-07 12:40:44 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: CaptainFatass: Ah, I see that the army of cutouts have come out in this thread to support their coworker.

Really, is this what our taxes are paying for? President Obama, break out that scalpel!

Uhhhhh... What, exactly, does Obama have to do with this?


Obama needs to comb though the intelligence agencies' budgets and eliminate programs that allow this sort of behavior. The FBI and CIA have long been given a blank check to run amok, and it needs to stop, on both an ethical and financial level.
 
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