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(The New York Times)   Old & busted: No spanking your children. New hotness: No yelling at your children. Coming soon: Why does mommy have a drinking problem?   (nytimes.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, drinking problem, parenting skills, aggressive behaviour, JACKIE KLEIN, Duke University, shouting, pop culture, Cub Scouts  
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12672 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Oct 2009 at 3:51 PM (12 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



446 Comments     (+0 »)
 
2009-10-22 12:53:27 PM  
I would never yell at you, subby. I love you too much to yell at you. You mean the world to me. You are my world. That's why you've disappointed me so much just now, do you understand? Can you understand my point? I love you so much and want to do what I can for you, but you've disappointed me so much and I'm really wondering if maybe I've made a mistake even deciding to have you as a part of my life. Sometimes you just make me think that maybe I can't keep you around, that maybe you're just never going to be even half as good as I hoped you would be. And it's not fair for me to constantly expect good things from you when I know you can't deliver them. I don't want to be unfair to you. I love you to much to be that unfair. If you love something, you have to let it go sometimes. You know? Maybe you just need to be around people who will be satisfied with you not being good enough. I just don't think I can be that person. I'm not strong enough. It's me, not you. I don't have what it takes to support your failure. But I tell you what. Let's just take a breather now, an hour or so. We'll come back and talk about this later.
 
2009-10-22 1:04:36 PM  
Can somebody explain to me, just what the fark was wrong about how we were disciplined that today's parents think it needs to be so dramatically altered?
 
2009-10-22 1:06:43 PM  
Even kids know what an unrestrained idiot you look like when you feel the need to scream. If you don't have a modicum of patience, don't have children.
 
2009-10-22 1:14:37 PM  
Did they spank their kids back in the 30's-90's? I seem to recall reading about/experiencing parents doing that and nobody was outraged. Having said that, most of the US seems to be full of adjusted normal people.
It sure seems that these helicopter parents are related to not spanking your kids and those kids being whiny jackasses that are sheltered from the real world and wonder why they all don't win in sports/get their way.

I'm drawing an assload of ridiculous assumptions here, I know that.. and I know not all kids respond to a spanking, but America as a whole seemed to have got where we are now with spanking our kids (now adults+) and things seem fine.

My mother gave other mothers and my teachers approval to spank me/hit me if I was bad.
34, YMMV
 
2009-10-22 1:18:00 PM  

platkat: Even kids know what an unrestrained idiot you look like when you feel the need to scream. If you don't have a modicum of patience, don't have children.


You obviously have never had children. No matter how calm, patient and rational you are, there are times you lose it, like when the kids are fighting over something stupid, your son refuses to even try to do his homework even when you've painstakingly told him what to do and offered to help, when the toys you asked/told/demanded to be picked up are still on the floor and you've just stepped on one in your bare feet, or you're just having a really bad day and this is what puts it over the top.

Sometimes you need to vent and there will be times where you can't vent the right way and just lose it. I'm more of a a voice raiser than a yeller but occasionally lose it. Talking rationally gets tuned out just as much as yelling -- sometimes even more so because you're never sure that your child heard you. My wife yells so infrequently that when she loses it the kids know they are in BIG trouble.

/grew up in a Jewish house -- screaming was talking
//for the most part our kids are well behaved.
 
2009-10-22 1:28:07 PM  
TFA : We congratulate our toddlers for blowing their nose ("Good job!")

Jesus, man. If my toddler suddenly figured out how to blow her nose I'd throw a parade. It'd be one less thing I would have to help her with.
 
2009-10-22 1:43:12 PM  
Coming soon: Why does mommy have a drinking problem?

And though she's not really feeling ill
there's a little yellow pill...
 
2009-10-22 1:46:39 PM  
TFA : We congratulate our toddlers for blowing their nose ("Good job!")

The New York Times puzzles me: its news content is top-notch and for the most part it deserves its reputation as America's newspaper of record, but its lifestyle content (which btw comprises about 75% of a given issue) is horrible and seems to reveal that its readers are complete idiots.
 
2009-10-22 1:53:42 PM  
Mommy drinks because you cry
 
2009-10-22 1:57:39 PM  
Just buy em a TF account to keep them out of your hair and submit TF articles all day.

Oh... thats already happening?

Maybe they could approve links.

Oh...
 
2009-10-22 2:02:50 PM  
But, incongruously and with regularity, this is a generation that yells.

Funny... I grew up in the 70's where the yelling was BECAUSE of Mommy's drinking.

Feck that... I holler at my kids when they deserve it. I also give them praise when they deserve it too. Nevwer "just for the helluvit".

I "friend" my kids on Facebook because I want to BE A FECKING PARENT.

I've noticed that my kids have the same disgusted reaction as me to "touchy/feely" parenting.

Maybe I'm doing something right.
 
2009-10-22 2:26:22 PM  
Not only do I agree with parents spanking their children, I agree with spanking the children of total strangers when merited. Hell, I am in agreement with muzzles for children.

/Not a big fan of the little ones.
 
2009-10-22 3:03:15 PM  

Ennuipoet: Not a big fan of the little ones.


I've never laughed as hard at a dinner table as I do with the wife and kids now.

/They're funny as Hell
 
2009-10-22 3:22:24 PM  

Shostie: TFA : We congratulate our toddlers for blowing their nose ("Good job!")

Jesus, man. If my toddler suddenly figured out how to blow her nose I'd throw a parade. It'd be one less thing I would have to help her with.


The less I have to touch toddler snot, the better.

/I don't thave any kids, but I can see why you'd want your 3-year-old to blow her own nose.
 
2009-10-22 3:42:53 PM  
If I had a kid, I'd train him/her to defend him/herself.

As I am a better teacher than practioner, within no time the toddler would inevitably be beating the living shiate out of me.
 
2009-10-22 3:53:25 PM  

swingerhead: Just buy em a TF account to keep them out of your hair and submit TF articles all day.

Oh... thats already happening?

Maybe they could approve links.

Oh...


img216.imageshack.usView Full Size
 
2009-10-22 3:53:34 PM  

Dr.Knockboots: most of the US seems to be full of adjusted normal people.


you must have never met a FOX News watcher.
 
2009-10-22 3:56:09 PM  

12349876: Dr.Knockboots: most of the US seems to be full of adjusted normal people.

you must have never met a FOX News watcherDailyKos reader.


Meh.. too easy really. Different doesn't mean they aren't "normally adjusted".
 
2009-10-22 3:56:10 PM  

12349876: you must have never met a FOX News watcher.


good point..
When i said "adjusted" i meant "but not those types"
 
2009-10-22 3:56:14 PM  
I speaking to kids in a seemingly neutral tone which nevertheless sends shivers down their little spines and makes them despair of ever finding anything good or kind in this world still acceptable?

'Cause it works.

/Can do the look of death too - also effective.
 
2009-10-22 3:56:16 PM  

Shostie: TFA : We congratulate our toddlers for blowing their nose ("Good job!")

Jesus, man. If my toddler suddenly figured out how to blow her nose I'd throw a parade. It'd be one less thing I would have to help her with.


This. The day my son figured out how to wipe his own face is one of my happiest memories of him.
 
2009-10-22 3:56:24 PM  

Toots McGee: Can somebody explain to me, just what the fark was wrong about how we were disciplined that today's parents think it needs to be so dramatically altered?


It was unpleasant.
 
2009-10-22 3:56:27 PM  
Spare the rod, spoil the child.
 
2009-10-22 3:56:31 PM  
FTA: "As parents understand that it's not socially acceptable to spank children, they are at a loss for what they can do. "


This person has never visited the South.
 
2009-10-22 3:56:51 PM  
There's a difference between a strong talking to and yelling and this lady demonstrates it all the time on the teevee.

theage.com.auView Full Size
 
2009-10-22 3:56:55 PM  

Pocket Ninja: I would never yell at you, subby. I love you too much to yell at you. You mean the world to me. You are my world. That's why you've disappointed me so much just now, do you understand? Can you understand my point? I love you so much and want to do what I can for you, but you've disappointed me so much and I'm really wondering if maybe I've made a mistake even deciding to have you as a part of my life. Sometimes you just make me think that maybe I can't keep you around, that maybe you're just never going to be even half as good as I hoped you would be. And it's not fair for me to constantly expect good things from you when I know you can't deliver them. I don't want to be unfair to you. I love you to much to be that unfair. If you love something, you have to let it go sometimes. You know? Maybe you just need to be around people who will be satisfied with you not being good enough. I just don't think I can be that person. I'm not strong enough. It's me, not you. I don't have what it takes to support your failure. But I tell you what. Let's just take a breather now, an hour or so. We'll come back and talk about this later.


Wow, I know it's humor but I was somehow a bit traumatized by that. I think I may have some parental issues....
 
2009-10-22 3:57:09 PM  

Nogale: I Is speaking to kids in a seemingly neutral tone which nevertheless sends shivers down their little spines and makes them despair of ever finding anything good or kind in this world still acceptable?

'Cause it works.

/Can do the look of death too - also effective.


FTFM
 
2009-10-22 3:57:32 PM  

Toots McGee: Can somebody explain to me, just what the fark was wrong about how we were disciplined that today's parents think it needs to be so dramatically altered?


We don't want our kids to turn out like you.
 
2009-10-22 3:58:48 PM  
THANKS Pocket Ninja... Now I know exactly what to say to my boyfriend.
 
2009-10-22 3:58:52 PM  

Gamer Grrrl: Shostie: TFA : We congratulate our toddlers for blowing their nose ("Good job!")

Jesus, man. If my toddler suddenly figured out how to blow her nose I'd throw a parade. It'd be one less thing I would have to help her with.

The less I have to touch toddler snot, the better.

/I don't thave any kids, but I can see why you'd want your 3-year-old to blow her own nose.


OMFG!!! TODDLER SNOT!!!
 
2009-10-22 3:59:02 PM  
Wait...I'm having a premonition....

I foresee that...wait...parents are going to continue to raise their kids just like they've always done...and ignore dumbass articles like this one...yes...because kids are unpredictable, raising them is unquantifiable...yes...

And as long as you love your kids and let them know it, it seems like 95% of them end up just fine. Whew. That was tough.

It used to be in the 50's, Dr. Spock (yes, he was a real doctor) said showing your kids too much physical affection was unhealthy. Some parents did that, and their kids probably wound up being Manson's groupies. Everyone else said "you know, I wanna hug my kids" and did what they thought was best for the kids.
 
2009-10-22 3:59:08 PM  

mysticcat: Mommy drinks because you cry


No, Mommy cries because I drink.

/daddy
 
2009-10-22 3:59:17 PM  
Beat your kids* twice a day; If you don't know why, they do.

/also applies to wives
 
2009-10-22 3:59:52 PM  

Ennuipoet: Not only do I agree with parents spanking their children, I agree with spanking the children of total strangers when merited. Hell, I am in agreement with muzzles for children.

/Not a big fan of the little ones.


I do the more subtle approach in a super market, turn my cart the same time the minion runs down the aisle screaming and let them crash into it hard.

/slowly lurks way with a banged up shopping cart.
 
2009-10-22 4:00:20 PM  

Pocket Ninja: I would never yell at you, subby. I love you too much to yell at you. You mean the world to me. You are my world. That's why you've disappointed me so much just now, do you understand? Can you understand my point? I love you so much and want to do what I can for you, but you've disappointed me so much and I'm really wondering if maybe I've made a mistake even deciding to have you as a part of my life. Sometimes you just make me think that maybe I can't keep you around, that maybe you're just never going to be even half as good as I hoped you would be. And it's not fair for me to constantly expect good things from you when I know you can't deliver them. I don't want to be unfair to you. I love you to much to be that unfair. If you love something, you have to let it go sometimes. You know? Maybe you just need to be around people who will be satisfied with you not being good enough. I just don't think I can be that person. I'm not strong enough. It's me, not you. I don't have what it takes to support your failure. But I tell you what. Let's just take a breather now, an hour or so. We'll come back and talk about this later.


I'm going to stick my head in the oven ...
THEN you'll be sorry.
 
2009-10-22 4:00:31 PM  

Shostie: TFA : We congratulate our toddlers for blowing their nose ("Good job!")

Jesus, man. If my toddler suddenly figured out how to blow her nose I'd throw a parade. It'd be one less thing I would have to help her with.


I threw a party when my kid hit the potty the first few times. Like monster party with party favors and hats and excitement and stuff. Parade would be a nice idea too. Would you prefer your kid be so excited at the thought of pooping in the potty they really want to make it again or should you just be like "meh, I do it all the time." I selected the first one and he was potty trained relatively early, hooray!
 
2009-10-22 4:00:51 PM  
Though I'm parent who was raised when corporal punishment was the norm, I don't spank. It's not a rule or anything. I'm not above it or anything, it's just that time outs work really really well for my guy. After 3 minutes he is calm, and more importantly, I am calm. It's a nice reset.

But I do yell. I yell like my father before me and his father before him. I've actually noticed my dogs outside go into their doghouses when I've yelled. The yelling isn't sustained or anything. It's more to break through his screaming and stun him for a second to break his train of thought.
 
2009-10-22 4:02:27 PM  
Spare the rod and spoil the child.

It's right there in the Good Book and these liberals just can't stand knowing that God gave them the right instructions already, so they've got to keep defying His Word in whatever way they can.

America, I pray for you.
 
2009-10-22 4:02:44 PM  
I was spanked. I needed to be spanked. I will spank. This has nothing to do with my Monkey.
 
2009-10-22 4:02:47 PM  

Gamer Grrrl:

.......The less I have to touch toddler snot, the better........



Toddler Snot.

Band. Name.
 
2009-10-22 4:03:01 PM  

mysticcat: Mommy drinks because you cry


My kids wonder why I drink so much. I wonder why I don't drink more.
 
2009-10-22 4:03:21 PM  

mysticcat: Mommy drinks because you cry


I thought it was "Daddy Drinks Because You Cry" and I remember it as a book title. FARK don't fail me now!
 
2009-10-22 4:03:35 PM  
My kid will get both spankings and talking-to's when warranted. He will also get praise and unconditional love. He's only 7 months old so he has a little while to get his act together before the belt comes off.
Skinned knee - no crying and rub some dirt in it
Being bullied - I'll teach you how to stand up for yourself
Being a bully - I'll show you what it feels like to be bullied
Back-talk me or your mother - you get a slap on the mouth (not hard) and sent to bed

I'm not a hard-ass but I'm not raising a pussy either. My wife agrees.
 
2009-10-22 4:03:54 PM  
FTA: "If someone yelled at you at work, you'd find that pretty jarring. We don't apply that standard to children."

Well, sure. But I also don't crap in my pants and then reach in, so I can use my shiat as finger paint for the office walls. If I did, then I think a little yelling may be warranted.
 
2009-10-22 4:03:55 PM  
I lock mine out of the house when he pissed me off. Seems to have worked okay. He's eighteen now and a pretty good kid/geek. Technically my little brother but I raised his ass hence the geek part.
 
2009-10-22 4:04:01 PM  

Dr.Knockboots: Did they spank their kids back in the 30's-90's? I seem to recall reading about/experiencing parents doing that and nobody was outraged. Having said that, most of the US seems to be full of adjusted normal people.
It sure seems that these helicopter parents are related to not spanking your kids and those kids being whiny jackasses that are sheltered from the real world and wonder why they all don't win in sports/get their way.

I'm drawing an assload of ridiculous assumptions here, I know that.. and I know not all kids respond to a spanking, but America as a whole seemed to have got where we are now with spanking our kids (now adults+) and things seem fine.

My mother gave other mothers and my teachers approval to spank me/hit me if I was bad.
34, YMMV



I find that it's easy to know who are kids here (Fark) that didn't get spanked or such.

They're usually the snotty know-it-alls.

/kids know when they are in trouble.
/doesn't raise voice often, but it matters when I do.
/promised all of them that if they deserve one, I'd still spank them even if they'd reach 49. All are over 12 now, and know that I'm still serious and will still be able to back up my promise for a long time
 
2009-10-22 4:04:22 PM  

OlafTheBent: Ennuipoet: Not a big fan of the little ones.

I've never laughed as hard at a dinner table as I do with the wife and kids now.

/They're funny as Hell


Children are a life ruining experience that will mess up your careers and social life forever. I fail to understand why people want to have them...
 
2009-10-22 4:04:36 PM  
Passive aggressive anger and guilt are much more effective methods of bringing your kids up right.
 
2009-10-22 4:05:01 PM  
Old enough to talk back? Old enough to get farked up.
 
2009-10-22 4:05:06 PM  

OlafTheBent: Ennuipoet: Not a big fan of the little ones.

I've never laughed as hard at a dinner table as I do with the wife and kids now.

/They're funny as Hell


All the bad shiat my kid does, I taught him. Like shooting milk out his nose at the dinner table. Next up, drunk dialing grandma.
 
2009-10-22 4:05:07 PM  
"Get in the closet or I'll skin you alive!"

/Hey, it worked for my kindergarten teacher.
 
2009-10-22 4:05:14 PM  
So I'm at the movies and this girl behind me is kicking my seat. I turn around, glare at her, and hope she gets the message. She doesn't.

So I turn around again and tell her to quit it. She doesn't.

So I tell the mom that her kid is kicking my seat and I'm not happy. She quits for a while then starts up again halfway during the movie.

When the movie is over I turn to the mom and say, "Your kid kicked my seat through the whole movie. That's how you're raising your kid? Good job."

She got mad at me and tells me that "she's just a little kid". I said, "I know. That's why I told you to do something and that's why I'm telling you now. Your kid is a brat."

As she's leaving the theater she yells at me: "She's just a kid!"

Me, "I know. Parent your goddam kid - she's a pain in the ass!"


At some point she decided that because her child is young it's perfectly OK for her to act like an ass. Am I missing something? Was my reaction to "she's just a kid" supposed to have been something like, "Oh! I'm sorry! I will not complain then..."
 
2009-10-22 4:05:57 PM  

Farkwaddle: My kid will get both spankings and talking-to's when warranted. He will also get praise and unconditional love. He's only 7 months old so he has a little while to get his act together before the belt comes off.
Skinned knee - no crying and rub some dirt in it
Being bullied - I'll teach you how to stand up for yourself
Being a bully - I'll show you what it feels like to be bullied
Back-talk me or your mother - you get a slap on the mouth (not hard) and sent to bed

I'm not a hard-ass but I'm not raising a pussy either. My wife agrees.


"This is 911, what is your emergency?"
 
2009-10-22 4:06:37 PM  
ecx.images-amazon.comView Full Size
 
2009-10-22 4:06:38 PM  
My mom and stepdad beat the shiat out of me regularly and yelled and belittled me, and I ignored it all and had no respect for them whatsoever while still being deeply traumatized by it all.

My dad spanked me twice in my life and yelled very rarely, but I still remember every single occasion it happened and respected him a lot. And he didn't traumatize me because even when he yelled he treated me like a human being.

The difference is that my mom and stepdad were insane and out of control and driven by their whacked out emotions and sadism, and I could tell, and my dad was very much in control and rational.

It's all about motive and presentation. Kids are not easily fooled.
 
2009-10-22 4:06:41 PM  

ronaprhys: Spare the rod and spoil the child.

It's right there in the Good Book and these liberals just can't stand knowing that God gave them the right instructions already, so they've got to keep defying His Word in whatever way they can.

America, I pray for you.


You do too, if you think "spare the rod and spoil the child" is in the Good Book, Bible Troll. Cuz it ain't in there.
 
2009-10-22 4:07:33 PM  
I have a sever temper problem that I hope I don't transfer to my kids (whenever I get around to THAT). Guess where the temper problem is from? That's right, Mom and Dad losing theirs for all manner of things while I was growing up. Yelling just makes kids timid or extremely standoffish. Coddling your kids is not as bad but does no good either. From what I've figured out on my own, stern and consistent discipline from an early age is the key. Yelling/spanking should be reserved for extreme circumstances.

Any normal parent out there want to (dis)agree with what I said?

/Either way, I'm going to fark with my kids' heads for the amusement factor
//It's puff-puff-pass Junior, stop bogarting mah spliff!
 
2009-10-22 4:07:41 PM  

pwhp_67: So I'm at the movies and this girl behind me is kicking my seat. I turn around, glare at her, and hope she gets the message. She doesn't.

So I turn around again and tell her to quit it. She doesn't.

So I tell the mom that her kid is kicking my seat and I'm not happy. She quits for a while then starts up again halfway during the movie.

When the movie is over I turn to the mom and say, "Your kid kicked my seat through the whole movie. That's how you're raising your kid? Good job."

She got mad at me and tells me that "she's just a little kid". I said, "I know. That's why I told you to do something and that's why I'm telling you now. Your kid is a brat."

As she's leaving the theater she yells at me: "She's just a kid!"

Me, "I know. Parent your goddam kid - she's a pain in the ass!"


At some point she decided that because her child is young it's perfectly OK for her to act like an ass. Am I missing something? Was my reaction to "she's just a kid" supposed to have been something like, "Oh! I'm sorry! I will not complain then..."


As a father of many children, you did fine...

I wouldn't have allowed my kids to act like this, even my autistic one.

I've done similar, but I do have the whole "I'm a father and I have never allowed my kids to act like this." to back me up.
 
2009-10-22 4:07:49 PM  

Spirit Hammer: I'm going to stick my head in the oven ...



It's an electric oven, you drama queen...
 
2009-10-22 4:07:57 PM  

lennavan:

I threw a party when my kid hit the potty the first few times. Like monster party with party favors and hats and excitement and stuff.


I read that as "excrement and stuff." Was wierded out for a minute.
 
2009-10-22 4:08:05 PM  

Millennium: Toots McGee: Can somebody explain to me, just what the fark was wrong about how we were disciplined that today's parents think it needs to be so dramatically altered?

It was unpleasant.


But it worked 100 times better than the BS timeouts and crap does today. News flash, you can't reason with a 3 year old, they are not capable. They understand force. This is why each generation of children in the last few is getting worse. Mouthy, irresponsible, lazy, fat and disrespectful kids are the norm now.
 
2009-10-22 4:08:50 PM  

lennavan: Shostie: TFA : We congratulate our toddlers for blowing their nose ("Good job!")

Jesus, man. If my toddler suddenly figured out how to blow her nose I'd throw a parade. It'd be one less thing I would have to help her with.

I threw a party when my kid hit the potty the first few times. Like monster party with party favors and hats and excitement and stuff. Parade would be a nice idea too. Would you prefer your kid be so excited at the thought of pooping in the potty they really want to make it again or should you just be like "meh, I do it all the time." I selected the first one and he was potty trained relatively early, hooray!



...so your kid has a scat fetish now?
 
2009-10-22 4:09:01 PM  

shep-piece: THANKS Pocket Ninja... Now I know exactly what to say to my boyfriend.



Sara?!

/leaving the office RIGHT now!
 
2009-10-22 4:09:09 PM  
Meh, I yell at my kids when it's warranted. Spank them when necessary, too.

No amount of puling, biatching, or tongue-tssking from the AMA, APA, or NYT is going to do shiat to stop me, either.

Oddly enough, my children behave in public, they don't whine, and we can actually take them places without them ruining the experience for everyone else.

And little Madison, Brittney, Aiden, & Kaylie, with their "Stop it, now, or mommy will count to three, and if she counts to three I'm taking your toy away when we get home or maybe I'll just count again and glare at you in a really serious fashion" discipline, behave like little animals.

Immediate punishments like a smack on the ass or a sharp word work precisely because they're the most efficient way of associating a negative consequence with a negative behavior right then and there.
 
2009-10-22 4:09:55 PM  
[image from memegenerator.net too old to be available]
 
2009-10-22 4:10:03 PM  
I'm not going to read this article I just want to say this:

Parents: PLEASE SPANK YOUR KIDS when absolutely necessary, but do not punch, kick, choke, backhand, gouge, rape, slash, stab, shoot, poison, bludgeon or in anyway actually physically abuse your kids. A hickory switch, or a belt to the bottom for severe infractions will not cause permanent damage (note, that doesn't mean you can beat their ass until you break their farking tail bone, they bleed, use a 2x4, or have massive deep bruising as this will only desensitize them and make spanking less effective anyway).

Remember physical punishment is to teach them a lesson, not to give you revenge.

PARENTS PLEASE YELL AT YOUR CHILDREN (often): However, do not call them derogatory names (i.e. fa-got, pussy, etc) or in other ways emotionally abuse them, because it WILL come back to bite you in the ass, somehow, someway.

Thank you.
Much Love,
The rest of the world.
 
2009-10-22 4:10:57 PM  

imfallen_angel: I've done similar, but I do have the whole "I'm a father and I have never allowed my kids to act like this." to back me up.



Oh that part was awesome. The first time she told me that "she's just a kid" I pointed to my daughter (dude, she's 10. No really, she's 10) and said, "So's she - and she doesn't kick chairs."

As a country, we've not only allowed parents to quit being parents, we've encouraged it...
 
2009-10-22 4:11:04 PM  
When my neice was about 3, we were at a Target store and walked past the toy section. There was a 5 year old throwing a tantrum because his father wouldn't buy him some huge Lego thing.

My neice actually looked at the kid and said "stop being a baby" as we walked past. I was never so proud.
 
2009-10-22 4:11:26 PM  
pwhp_67: Was my reaction to "she's just a kid" supposed to have been something like, "Oh! I'm sorry! I will not complain then..."

Yes, yes it was. Some of these idiots practically expect you to genuflect in front of them for gracing your presence with their little sh*tbags...
 
2009-10-22 4:11:28 PM  
Speaking as somebody who was spanked as a child and HATED it:

You bet your ass I'm going to spank my kids.
 
2009-10-22 4:11:34 PM  

Fano: Passive aggressive anger and guilt are much more effective methods of bringing your kids up right.


How do you know my parents?
 
2009-10-22 4:11:37 PM  
Personally, I plan to parent my (hypothetical) children through sheer terror. They will constantly wonder what kind of mood mommy is going to be in. I plan to give them absolutely no consistency and alternate smothering them with neglecting them. They will never know when setting fire to their brother's hair will earn a shrug, or accidentally knocking over a glass of milk will result in 20 minutes of screaming about their utter uselessness.

I will NOT spank them, though. That's barbaric.
 
2009-10-22 4:12:05 PM  

Spirit Hammer: I'm going to stick my head in the oven ...
THEN you'll be sorry.


Make sure you preheat it first. I hate when people forget to preheat. It makes the crust loose its crispness.
 
2009-10-22 4:12:13 PM  
Why is it that a poop-related story turns into a poop thread, while a spanking-related story never turns into a spanking thread?

You know what I'm talking about.
 
2009-10-22 4:12:14 PM  
Personally I think you can get a lot of insight into how to control your kids at home based on how kids maintain authority on the playground.

The kid who yells, flies into a rage, and hits things is always going to be looked at as a spaz. Conversely, the kid who is always calm, confronts and deals with people easily, with poise and wit, and if they need to, or want to, can beat the shiat out of someone without breaking a sweat or losing a smile, that's the kid who maintains high standing.

The same goes for parenting, anytime you yell at your kids or hit them out of anger, you may win the battle but you're losing your authority little by little. On the other hand, if you always deal with your kids with wit and firm, reasoned, father-knows-best care, you'll do fine. Spanking is ok, if you're literally at wits end, but if you can't count on your hands the number of times you've spanked your child, you either have little wit, or are a sadist.
 
2009-10-22 4:12:51 PM  
You know why kids today are snotty douchebags and/or pregnant in middle school? No discipline. Teach your kids some farking manners and morals and don't treat them like they'll be scarred for life if you tell them they're doing something wrong. For the love of FSM, a couple of the schools near me won't even let the teachers use red pens because it could "cause emotional scarring". WTF.

/ARGH
//My lawn, off it.
 
2009-10-22 4:12:51 PM  

Gyrfalcon: ronaprhys: Spare the rod and spoil the child.

It's right there in the Good Book and these liberals just can't stand knowing that God gave them the right instructions already, so they've got to keep defying His Word in whatever way they can.

America, I pray for you.

You do too, if you think "spare the rod and spoil the child" is in the Good Book, Bible Troll. Cuz it ain't in there.


Proverbs 13:24 - "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes."

It sort of is....make of that what you will.

/I guess "betimes" means "diligently."
 
2009-10-22 4:13:16 PM  

wage0048: My neice actually looked at the kid and said "stop being a baby" as we walked past. I was never so proud.



That is awesome on so many levels...
 
2009-10-22 4:13:29 PM  

Gyrfalcon: You do too, if you think "spare the rod and spoil the child" is in the Good Book, Bible Troll. Cuz it ain't in there.


Hook.

Line.

Sinker.
 
2009-10-22 4:13:33 PM  

Toots McGee: Can somebody explain to me, just what the fark was wrong about how we were disciplined that today's parents think it needs to be so dramatically altered?


because children have the same emotions that adults do (ZOMG!!!!) and although they need discipline to socialize them into appropriate behavior, they need to be guided through positive reinforcement techniques instead of just instilling fear in them (aka being a dick that yells over spilled milk--blame your parents if you want). Fear is not respect. Be mean to your kids, they will still love you...but chances are they will resent you in one way or another.
 
2009-10-22 4:13:43 PM  
If I can't beat them, I'm gonna yell at them to keep myself from beating them.

/not a parent
//for many good reasons
 
2009-10-22 4:13:48 PM  

Litig8r: Immediate punishments like a smack on the ass or a sharp word stick work precisely because they're the most efficient way of associating a negative consequence with a negative behavior right then and there.


FTFY
 
2009-10-22 4:14:01 PM  

HarpuaMM: Yelling just makes kids timid or extremely standoffish. Coddling your kids is not as bad but does no good either. From what I've figured out on my own, stern and consistent discipline from an early age is the key. Yelling/spanking should be reserved for extreme circumstances.

Any normal parent out there want to (dis)agree with what I said?


Any child discipline thread in Fark is instantly flooded with calls for frequent spankings and physical discipline by all kinds of maladjusted morons without kids.

Normal parents agree with you.
 
2009-10-22 4:14:06 PM  

whoviantrekkie: Children are a life ruining experience that will mess up your careers and social life forever. I fail to understand why people want to have them...


When mine reached 4 months and starting really responding to me with smiles and laughs it changed my life more profoundly than anything else ever has. Kids aren't for everyone, but I felt like you for a large part of my life and I have never been so happy as to be totally wrong.
 
2009-10-22 4:14:09 PM  

detfrost1: I'm not going to read this article I just want to say this:

Parents: PLEASE SPANK YOUR KIDS when absolutely necessary, but do not punch, kick, choke, backhand, gouge, rape, slash, stab, shoot, poison, bludgeon or in anyway actually physically abuse your kids. A hickory switch, or a belt to the bottom for severe infractions will not cause permanent damage (note, that doesn't mean you can beat their ass until you break their farking tail bone, they bleed, use a 2x4, or have massive deep bruising as this will only desensitize them and make spanking less effective anyway).

Remember physical punishment is to teach them a lesson, not to give you revenge.

PARENTS PLEASE YELL AT YOUR CHILDREN (often): However, do not call them derogatory names (i.e. fa-got, pussy, etc) or in other ways emotionally abuse them, because it WILL come back to bite you in the ass, somehow, someway.

Thank you.
Much Love,
The rest of the world.


Or the 34 students at your sons college, 10 people on his subway train, that kind of thing.
 
2009-10-22 4:15:12 PM  

pwhp_67: imfallen_angel: I've done similar, but I do have the whole "I'm a father and I have never allowed my kids to act like this." to back me up.


Oh that part was awesome. The first time she told me that "she's just a kid" I pointed to my daughter (dude, she's 10. No really, she's 10) and said, "So's she - and she doesn't kick chairs."

As a country, we've not only allowed parents to quit being parents, we've encouraged it...


I'm with ya. But it seems to me (at least where I live) that it's a matter of parents not actually wanting to put in the effort to make sure they have well-behaved kids. They sit there and chat with their friends, or talk on their cell phone while their kid is wreaking havoc. Sure, they've got kids, but that doesn't mean it has to inconvenience them.
 
2009-10-22 4:15:31 PM  
My wife swore she'd never hit her kids, and she hasn't. Until the other day when our 16 year old gave the finger and said fark you to her, then she hit him. So much for moral absolutes.

/I've never placed such restrictions on myself
//he's never had the balls to give me the finger.
///at least he's never let me see him doing it
 
2009-10-22 4:15:32 PM  

pwhp_67: imfallen_angel: I've done similar, but I do have the whole "I'm a father and I have never allowed my kids to act like this." to back me up.


Oh that part was awesome. The first time she told me that "she's just a kid" I pointed to my daughter (dude, she's 10. No really, she's 10) and said, "So's she - and she doesn't kick chairs."

As a country, we've not only allowed parents to quit being parents, we've encouraged it...


Where the "cool story bro" image when I need it...

:-p
 
2009-10-22 4:15:40 PM  

Pocket Ninja: I would never yell at you, subby. I love you too much to yell at you. You mean the world to me. You are my world. That's why you've disappointed me so much just now, do you understand? Can you understand my point? I love you so much and want to do what I can for you, but you've disappointed me so much and I'm really wondering if maybe I've made a mistake even deciding to have you as a part of my life. Sometimes you just make me think that maybe I can't keep you around, that maybe you're just never going to be even half as good as I hoped you would be. And it's not fair for me to constantly expect good things from you when I know you can't deliver them. I don't want to be unfair to you. I love you to much to be that unfair. If you love something, you have to let it go sometimes. You know? Maybe you just need to be around people who will be satisfied with you not being good enough. I just don't think I can be that person. I'm not strong enough. It's me, not you. I don't have what it takes to support your failure. But I tell you what. Let's just take a breather now, an hour or so. We'll come back and talk about this later.


Jesus Christ.


I'm so printing this out and putting it in my wallet.
 
2009-10-22 4:15:54 PM  

Didgeridon't: You know why kids today are snotty douchebags and/or pregnant in middle school? No discipline. Teach your kids some farking manners and morals and don't treat them like they'll be scarred for life if you tell them they're doing something wrong. For the love of FSM, a couple of the schools near me won't even let the teachers use red pens because it could "cause emotional scarring". WTF.

/ARGH
//My lawn, off it.



I started first grade back in '85, and back then, the principal could still paddle kids who got into trouble. However, he would have to calls the child's parents for permission.

/Once asked my Mom if she would give that permission.
//She said yes.
 
2009-10-22 4:16:18 PM  
Whatever happened to being made to pick your own hickory switch? And if it wasn't stiff enough, you'd have to go back and get a proper one and get spanked twice as long for trying to lessen your pain?!
 
2009-10-22 4:17:11 PM  
You shouldn't yell because that indicates a lack of control on your part. However, as the child of teachers, I have learned the "you're going to the principal's office"/voice of God technique. Firm and stern, with the tone that you aren't farking around anymore.

That gets children's attention.

/or you can just wave a gun around, i hear that works too
 
2009-10-22 4:17:22 PM  
I spank and I yell. My kids are very respectful and well behaved and know how to act in public. I TEACH them what we expect them to do and they know the consequences well in advance. Do I yell over spilled milk? Hell no, accidents happen. Yelling and spanking usually happens if its something that can and will hurt them (touching a hot oven or an unfamiliar dog) or if we've told them for the umpteenth time to do something. They are kids, not friggin porcelain dolls.
 
2009-10-22 4:17:29 PM  
detfrost: I'm not going to read this article I just want to say this:

Parents: PLEASE SPANK YOUR KIDS when absolutely necessary, but do not punch, kick, choke, backhand, gouge, rape, slash, stab, shoot, poison, bludgeon or in anyway actually physically abuse your kids. A hickory switch, or a belt to the bottom for severe infractions will not cause permanent damage (note, that doesn't mean you can beat their ass until you break their farking tail bone, they bleed, use a 2x4, or have massive deep bruising as this will only desensitize them and make spanking less effective anyway).

Remember physical punishment is to teach them a lesson, not to give you revenge.

PARENTS PLEASE YELL AT YOUR CHILDREN (often): However, do not call them derogatory names (i.e. fa-got, pussy, etc) or in other ways emotionally abuse them, because it WILL come back to bite you in the ass, somehow, someway.

Thank you.
Much Love,
The rest of the world.


I am intrigued by your ideas, and would like to subscribe to your parenting magazine.

/have never spanked my toddler
//have yelled, dragged her out kicking and screaming, and refused to replace broken toys
 
2009-10-22 4:17:58 PM  
I have to say unfortunately I inherited my mother's yelling style.. we smile and smile and take it and take it until we snap like a twig and go apoplectic. We go so over the top it is more amusing that frightening. I am trying to develop my grandfather's style of talking through his teeth. He'd get close, grab the hair on the back of your neck and with a smile on his face, basically make you shiat your pants. To the rest of the world it looked like he had his hand on your head and was smiling lovingly..
 
2009-10-22 4:18:09 PM  
Jebus, what a worthless article.

Yes, blowing up and yelling is counterproductive.

Yes, every parent will lose it sometimes.

My kid is 3.5, timeouts sometimes work but sometimes he needs a spank. Spankings in our house are preceded by calm warnings... he has to work to get one. And his behavior improves immediately
He seems to feel more resentment after timeouts, more remorse after spankings.

/ymmv, every kid is different, etc.
 
2009-10-22 4:18:22 PM  

platkat: what an unrestrained idiot you look like when you feel the need to scream. If you don't have a modicum of patience, don't have children.


You wouldn't have survived an hour without yelling at me and my twin brother. He had ADHD and I loved to take things apart. Besides, if mom never yelled then my brother never would have heard her from all the way up on the roof.
 
2009-10-22 4:18:31 PM  

Crewmannumber6: My wife swore she'd never hit her kids, and she hasn't. Until the other day when our 16 year old gave the finger and said fark you to her, then she hit him. So much for moral absolutes.

/I've never placed such restrictions on myself
//he's never had the balls to give me the finger.
///at least he's never let me see him doing it



My Mom would slap me across the face if I dropped the F-bomb. I respected her, so I never used it at her, but if my brother was being an asshole (typical behavior), it would slip out.

"Fark you, Greg!"

*WAP!*

/Her ninja hand came out of nowhere.
 
2009-10-22 4:19:03 PM  

Crewmannumber6: My wife swore she'd never hit her kids, and she hasn't. Until the other day when our 16 year old gave the finger and said fark you to her, then she hit him. So much for moral absolutes.


Wait, wait - you can't start a story like that and leave us hanging. What happened? Did he apologize? Did she break into tears? Have they made up, or are they still sulking? Inquiring minds want to know. Really!
 
2009-10-22 4:19:07 PM  

pwhp_67: wage0048: My neice actually looked at the kid and said "stop being a baby" as we walked past. I was never so proud.


That is awesome on so many levels...


When we got home, I asked her to repeat it to my parents and my sister (her mom). She, very proudly, stands up, puts her hands on her hips and says "Stop being baby!"
 
2009-10-22 4:19:12 PM  

scalpod: Whatever happened to being made to pick your own hickory switch? And if it wasn't stiff enough, you'd have to go back and get a proper one and get spanked twice as long for trying to lessen your pain?!


I think the answer lies somewhere in between being a spineless jellyfish and a sadistic prick.
 
2009-10-22 4:19:36 PM  
BTW, if your brat is acting up on a commercial flight, let him or her play outside.
 
2009-10-22 4:20:01 PM  

The_Sponge: Didgeridon't: You know why kids today are snotty douchebags and/or pregnant in middle school? No discipline. Teach your kids some farking manners and morals and don't treat them like they'll be scarred for life if you tell them they're doing something wrong. For the love of FSM, a couple of the schools near me won't even let the teachers use red pens because it could "cause emotional scarring". WTF.

/ARGH
//My lawn, off it.


I started first grade back in '85, and back then, the principal could still paddle kids who got into trouble. However, he would have to calls the child's parents for permission.

/Once asked my Mom if she would give that permission.
//She said yes.


Same here (except I started in '84). I'd like to think I'm a normal, productive member of society today because of it.
 
2009-10-22 4:20:16 PM  

Didgeridon't: You know why kids today are snotty douchebags and/or pregnant in middle school? No discipline.


Funny, when I grew up, the kids had "discipline" and they were still snotty douchebags and/or pregnant in middle school. In fact, in my hood, the more physical punishments they got, the bigger hoodlums they turned out to be.

Where the fark did you live that kids were once pure and polite and never got pregnant? Disneyland?

Most likely you're so old you've gotten senile. Why don't you tell us again about that time in Korea when you got the metal plate in your head, gramps?
 
2009-10-22 4:20:59 PM  

morton20: My mom and stepdad beat the shiat out of me regularly and yelled and belittled me, and I ignored it all and had no respect for them whatsoever while still being deeply traumatized by it all.

My dad spanked me twice in my life and yelled very rarely, but I still remember every single occasion it happened and respected him a lot. And he didn't traumatize me because even when he yelled he treated me like a human being.

The difference is that my mom and stepdad were insane and out of control and driven by their whacked out emotions and sadism, and I could tell, and my dad was very much in control and rational.

It's all about motive and presentation. Kids are not easily fooled.


Probably one of the more sane things in this thread. My mother yelled and screamed all the time. I ignored her then and ignore her now. I spent a lot of years living with my grandparents. My grandfather never yelled. Except for that one time. I still get embarrassed thinking about what he yelled at me for and he's been dead over 10 years. Mother - irrational. Grandfather - totally sane. My mother used to always tell me she loved me. I never believed her. My grandfather never said it out loud that I ever heard but I never doubted it. When my mother spanked or yelled, it rolled off me like water off a duck's back. If my grandfather so much as looked in my direction and gave a discontented sigh, I was crushed. Kids know.
 
2009-10-22 4:21:27 PM  
And people wonder why kids are growing up with a false sense of entitlement...
 
2009-10-22 4:21:28 PM  
This is how it works:

-Kid does something wrong or that reasonably upsets you.
-Ask the child why he did it. Explain to the kid why this was not appropriate, asking the child when you are finished if they understand.
-Kid does it again.
-Spank kid and explain not following rules has consequences.
-Repeat as needed.

I guarantee you your kid will get the picture quickly, and grow up normal and well-adjusted. Everyone I know did... except the kid who wasn't spanked.
 
2009-10-22 4:21:43 PM  

scalpod: Whatever happened to being made to pick your own hickory switch? And if it wasn't stiff enough, you'd have to go back and get a proper one and get spanked twice as long for trying to lessen your pain?!


*raises hand*

I distinctly remember my father saying, "No, that's not a switch. *SNAP* This is a switch.
 
2009-10-22 4:22:02 PM  

Nuuu: Personally I think you can get a lot of insight into how to control your kids at home based on how kids maintain authority on the playground.

The kid who yells, flies into a rage, and hits things is always going to be looked at as a spaz. Conversely, the kid who is always calm, confronts and deals with people easily, with poise and wit, and if they need to, or want to, can beat the shiat out of someone without breaking a sweat or losing a smile, that's the kid who maintains high standing.

The same goes for parenting, anytime you yell at your kids or hit them out of anger, you may win the battle but you're losing your authority little by little. On the other hand, if you always deal with your kids with wit and firm, reasoned, father-knows-best care, you'll do fine. Spanking is ok, if you're literally at wits end, but if you can't count on your hands the number of times you've spanked your child, you either have little wit, or are a sadist.


I can tell you're one of those twits who think that physical punishment and raised voices equate to anger and losing control.

There's a giant frigging chasm of difference between spanking your child and beating them, and between raising your voice and screaming epithets. It is a difference primarily consisting of loss of control. Your entire point is about how losing control undermines your authority. It has absolutely fark all to do with yelling or spanking.
 
2009-10-22 4:22:10 PM  
12349876
There's a difference between a strong talking to and yelling and this lady demonstrates it all the time on the teevee.

[pic of The Nanny]


She also had a mother spend over two hours putting the daughter back into the corner every 5 minutes.fark

THATshiat!!!

I can't even imagine how red my ass would have been if one of my parents had to do that.
 
2009-10-22 4:22:37 PM  
My kids will be spanked, and if they complain, they will be hit once for each complaint until they learn the bigger you are, the easier it is to pick on people smaller and weaker than you.
 
2009-10-22 4:22:49 PM  

pwhp_67: Am I missing something? Was my reaction to "she's just a kid" supposed to have been something like, "Oh! I'm sorry! I will not complain then..."


You were in the right, but I fear it was hopeless. There are still some parents out there like me who never let their kids get that first kick off in the first place because we pay attention to them even if it's a good movie. If he did get a kick in, I would notice (as I am sure she did) and I would make him stop and make him apologize to you if it warranted it.


HarpuaMM: stern and consistent discipline from an early age is the key.



nailed it.
 
2009-10-22 4:22:59 PM  

BobNesta420: I'm with ya. But it seems to me (at least where I live) that it's a matter of parents not actually wanting to put in the effort to make sure they have well-behaved kids. They sit there and chat with their friends, or talk on their cell phone while their kid is wreaking havoc. Sure, they've got kids, but that doesn't mean it has to inconvenience them.


Worse yet, you'll have parents ignoring their annoying kids (who are being annoying because they're young and they don't realize their behavior has ramped up) who then will go into a rage if YOU dare to talk to their children directly.

Personally I find most kids in public from at least kindergarten age and up are pretty responsive if another customer in the establishment asks them DIRECTLY to stop kicking a chair, running around, be a little more quiet, etc, in a normal polite voice.

The fact that it's not just mom again, plus a little "wow someone is treating me like a regular person, maybe I should try to deserve it" can be magical sometimes.
 
2009-10-22 4:24:19 PM  

PumpUpDaFark: Gamer Grrrl: Shostie: TFA : We congratulate our toddlers for blowing their nose ("Good job!")

Jesus, man. If my toddler suddenly figured out how to blow her nose I'd throw a parade. It'd be one less thing I would have to help her with.

The less I have to touch toddler snot, the better.

/I don't thave any kids, but I can see why you'd want your 3-year-old to blow her own nose.

OMFG!!! TODDLER SNOT!!!


How about crusty toddler buggers the size of a pea? You know the kind you need a tweezers to remove from their noses.
 
2009-10-22 4:24:50 PM  

Pocket Ninja: I would never yell at you, subby. I love you too much to yell at you. You mean the world to me. You are my world. That's why you've disappointed me so much just now, do you understand? Can you understand my point? I love you so much and want to do what I can for you, but you've disappointed me so much and I'm really wondering if maybe I've made a mistake even deciding to have you as a part of my life. Sometimes you just make me think that maybe I can't keep you around, that maybe you're just never going to be even half as good as I hoped you would be. And it's not fair for me to constantly expect good things from you when I know you can't deliver them. I don't want to be unfair to you. I love you to much to be that unfair. If you love something, you have to let it go sometimes. You know? Maybe you just need to be around people who will be satisfied with you not being good enough. I just don't think I can be that person. I'm not strong enough. It's me, not you. I don't have what it takes to support your failure. But I tell you what. Let's just take a breather now, an hour or so. We'll come back and talk about this later.


Or as my grandma used to say:

"Straighten up kid, or I'll sell you to the gypsies."
 
2009-10-22 4:25:31 PM  
I didn't mind the yelling and the spanking growing up, but I never got used to the penis tugging. That was the worst.
 
2009-10-22 4:26:09 PM  
Spare the rod and spoil the child is a primitive concept. treat your children the way you would like to be treated. I say jump: they say how high in midair---without any spanking.
 
2009-10-22 4:26:28 PM  
Two words: Duct Tape.
 
2009-10-22 4:26:39 PM  
Parents are human too. And they might not always get it right, but it's their right to be allowed to mess up. And kids need discipline, sorry.
 
2009-10-22 4:26:47 PM  

Billy Ligue: PumpUpDaFark: Gamer Grrrl: Shostie: TFA : We congratulate our toddlers for blowing their nose ("Good job!")

Jesus, man. If my toddler suddenly figured out how to blow her nose I'd throw a parade. It'd be one less thing I would have to help her with.

The less I have to touch toddler snot, the better.

/I don't thave any kids, but I can see why you'd want your 3-year-old to blow her own nose.

OMFG!!! TODDLER SNOT!!!

How about crusty toddler buggers the size of a pea? You know the kind you need a tweezers to remove from their noses.


Wow, my uterus just sealed itself shut.
 
2009-10-22 4:26:50 PM  

EmperorSled: She also had a mother spend over two hours putting the daughter back into the corner every 5 minutes.fark


That only happens the first time. And it's better discipline than physical or verbal abuse.
 
2009-10-22 4:27:27 PM  

Gyrfalcon: ronaprhys: Spare the rod and spoil the child.

It's right there in the Good Book and these liberals just can't stand knowing that God gave them the right instructions already, so they've got to keep defying His Word in whatever way they can.

America, I pray for you.

You do too, if you think "spare the rod and spoil the child" is in the Good Book, Bible Troll. Cuz it ain't in there.


No it's in there. In the book of Proverbs. It may sometimes be taken out of context but it's in there.
 
2009-10-22 4:27:31 PM  
i209.photobucket.comView Full Size


that is all.
 
2009-10-22 4:27:53 PM  

Billy Ligue: PumpUpDaFark: Gamer Grrrl: Shostie: TFA : We congratulate our toddlers for blowing their nose ("Good job!")

Jesus, man. If my toddler suddenly figured out how to blow her nose I'd throw a parade. It'd be one less thing I would have to help her with.

The less I have to touch toddler snot, the better.

/I don't thave any kids, but I can see why you'd want your 3-year-old to blow her own nose.

OMFG!!! TODDLER SNOT!!!

How about crusty toddler buggers the size of a pea? You know the kind you need a tweezers to remove from their noses.


Shop-Vac and a straw, works every time.
 
2009-10-22 4:28:01 PM  

ne2d: TFA : We congratulate our toddlers for blowing their nose ("Good job!")

The New York Times puzzles me: its news content is top-notch and for the most part it deserves its reputation as America's newspaper of record, but its lifestyle content (which btw comprises about 75% of a given issue) is horrible and seems to reveal that its readers are complete idiots.


That's because it's all written by gay men pretending they know something about watching kids.
 
2009-10-22 4:28:20 PM  
yelling doesn't help. After I had calmly asked my 4 year old daughter to brush her teeth 7 times this morning, I just quitely walked to the back door and said, "See ya later" and closed the door behind me. I quickly stepped around the corner and hid.

She ran out, yelling "Wait, Mommy, Wait"

I jumped out and said, "Boo! Now go brush your teeth." She laughed so hard she nearly busted her pants, brushed her teeth and we giggled and sang all the way to school. I would have never left her, but I needed to get her attention and I did. When we pulled into the school parking lot, she said, "You know, I probably should listen better." I just hope she learns to listen and keeps it up during her teen years.
 
2009-10-22 4:28:33 PM  

Billy Ligue: How about crusty toddler buggers the size of a pea? You know the kind you need a tweezers to remove from their noses.


Don't they sell those rubber squeeze bulbs just for that sorta thing?

They say when it's your own kid it's all okay and good. I dunno :)
 
2009-10-22 4:29:03 PM  
Having lived thru three offspring growing up in my house, I am getting a kick...

Three well adjusted, well educated(one cum laude;one on full scholarship), very independant(OK, one passive aggressive biatch), not living in my basement.

1) Get a rod. You will just hurt your hand, get pissed and lose it. Also improves reach. Reach is critical, make 'em think it is magic.
2) Start early, never lose a battle until age 5, then pick your losses.
3) Never fight fair.
4) booze or pot, your choice. For you idiot.
5) Never push. Only beat away from danger.
6) They are faster, smarter, and better than you, never forget to act like it.
7) Somebody must be boss.
 
2009-10-22 4:29:05 PM  

girljen: detfrost: I'm not going to read this article I just want to say this:

Parents: PLEASE SPANK YOUR KIDS when absolutely necessary, but do not punch, kick, choke, backhand, gouge, rape, slash, stab, shoot, poison, bludgeon or in anyway actually physically abuse your kids. A hickory switch, or a belt to the bottom for severe infractions will not cause permanent damage (note, that doesn't mean you can beat their ass until you break their farking tail bone, they bleed, use a 2x4, or have massive deep bruising as this will only desensitize them and make spanking less effective anyway).

Remember physical punishment is to teach them a lesson, not to give you revenge.

PARENTS PLEASE YELL AT YOUR CHILDREN (often): However, do not call them derogatory names (i.e. fa-got, pussy, etc) or in other ways emotionally abuse them, because it WILL come back to bite you in the ass, somehow, someway.

Thank you.
Much Love,
The rest of the world.

I am intrigued by your ideas, and would like to subscribe to your parenting magazine.

/have never spanked my toddler
//have yelled, dragged her out kicking and screaming, and refused to replace broken toys


Thank you for the complement! The broken toy thing...great idea.

Well I was going to be a social worker until 2 things happened.

1) During my internship my final client had been raped by 13 men set up by her mother, for her 13th birthday (filmed and distributed by the mother). That kind of scarred me.

2) I got cancer and had to move home for treatment (in remission for several years now ::knocks wood::).

It's just simple logic really don't say things to your kids that are emotionally devastating (calling them a fa-got when they are obviously going through puberty and are confused, saying you hate them etc.)

Physically punish them when they need to experience a physical negative reinforcement for drastic wrong doings

i.e. Hey let's shove a pencil up the cat's ass, or let's play take a nap on the railroad tracks, or lets take our dick out and piss in a garbage can because our biatch 2nd grade teacher won't let us go to the farking bathroom cause she's a coont and you have to go but you don't want to piss your pants (ok that last one was something I did).

BUT DON'T cause permanent damage, and if you find you need to spank your kid more often then "here and there" it's time to see if your health insurance or your state's SCHIP program covers family therapy (it probably does).


It's all about logic and self control.


[image from images2.wikia.nocookie.net too old to be available]
 
2009-10-22 4:30:15 PM  

PH Neutral: This is how it works:

-Kid does something wrong or that reasonably upsets you.
-Ask the child why he did it. Explain to the kid why this was not appropriate, asking the child when you are finished if they understand.
-Kid does it again.
-Spank kid and explain not following rules has consequences.
-Repeat as needed.

I guarantee you your kid will get the picture quickly, and grow up normal and well-adjusted. Everyone I know did... except the kid who wasn't spanked.


You must know very few people. And must have been in an upper to middle class family. Try growing up like that when you're always hungry, and see if that abuse helped the situation.
 
2009-10-22 4:30:39 PM  

platkat: Even kids know what an unrestrained idiot you look like when you feel the need to scream. If you don't have a modicum of patience, don't have children.


My modicum came out with my placenta.
It's gone baby.
/gone
 
2009-10-22 4:31:54 PM  

detfrost1: girljen: detfrost: I'm not going to read this article I just want to say this:

Parents: PLEASE SPANK YOUR KIDS when absolutely necessary, but do not punch, kick, choke, backhand, gouge, rape, slash, stab, shoot, poison, bludgeon or in anyway actually physically abuse your kids. A hickory switch, or a belt to the bottom for severe infractions will not cause permanent damage (note, that doesn't mean you can beat their ass until you break their farking tail bone, they bleed, use a 2x4, or have massive deep bruising as this will only desensitize them and make spanking less effective anyway).

Remember physical punishment is to teach them a lesson, not to give you revenge.

PARENTS PLEASE YELL AT YOUR CHILDREN (often): However, do not call them derogatory names (i.e. fa-got, pussy, etc) or in other ways emotionally abuse them, because it WILL come back to bite you in the ass, somehow, someway.

Thank you.
Much Love,
The rest of the world.

I am intrigued by your ideas, and would like to subscribe to your parenting magazine.

/have never spanked my toddler
//have yelled, dragged her out kicking and screaming, and refused to replace broken toys

Thank you for the complement! The broken toy thing...great idea.

Well I was going to be a social worker until 2 things happened.

1) During my internship my final client had been raped by 13 men set up by her mother, for her 13th birthday (filmed and distributed by the mother). That kind of scarred me.

.


What was her Sweet Sixteen like?
 
2009-10-22 4:32:15 PM  
Almost forgot,

Kids come with handles, called ears.
Grab on(HARD) and whisper, message will get thru.
 
2009-10-22 4:32:22 PM  
Can I still look at them with a stern visage?
 
2009-10-22 4:32:37 PM  
Shostie: TFA : We congratulate our toddlers for blowing their nose ("Good job!") Jesus, man. If my toddler suddenly figured out how to blow her nose I'd throw a parade. It'd be one less thing I would have to help her with.
======================================================

Focus on nose-blowing and ass-wiping.

Once they can do that, life is so much better.
 
2009-10-22 4:32:42 PM  

kxs401: Billy Ligue: PumpUpDaFark: Gamer Grrrl: Shostie: TFA : We congratulate our toddlers for blowing their nose ("Good job!")

Jesus, man. If my toddler suddenly figured out how to blow her nose I'd throw a parade. It'd be one less thing I would have to help her with.

The less I have to touch toddler snot, the better.

/I don't thave any kids, but I can see why you'd want your 3-year-old to blow her own nose.

OMFG!!! TODDLER SNOT!!!

How about crusty toddler buggers the size of a pea? You know the kind you need a tweezers to remove from their noses.

Wow, my uterus just sealed itself shut.


Well, I was gonna mention the Q-tip trick, whereby, you stick the Q-tip in the toddler's nostril, pull back, and the snot SNAPS BACK and raps itself around the Q-tip as if it had a mind of its own, but I guess I was too late.
 
2009-10-22 4:33:01 PM  

Dalar: PH Neutral: This is how it works:

-Kid does something wrong or that reasonably upsets you.
-Ask the child why he did it. Explain to the kid why this was not appropriate, asking the child when you are finished if they understand.
-Kid does it again.
-Spank kid and explain not following rules has consequences.
-Repeat as needed.

I guarantee you your kid will get the picture quickly, and grow up normal and well-adjusted. Everyone I know did... except the kid who wasn't spanked.

You must know very few people. And must have been in an upper to middle class family. Try growing up like that when you're always hungry, and see if that abuse helped the situation.



Spanking does not equal abuse.
 
2009-10-22 4:33:09 PM  
When my mom tried to use the pop psychology, talking to your kids to show them right and wrong, I would just nod and tell her how right she was, faking that I saw the error of my ways. Then I would walk up the stairs with a satisfied smirk on my face realizing I just got away with X and didn't even get in trouble for it. I knew I had won.

When my dad backhanded me and nearly knocked me over,...well that shiat I didn't do again.
 
2009-10-22 4:33:23 PM  

Didgeridon't: The_Sponge: Didgeridon't: You know why kids today are snotty douchebags and/or pregnant in middle school? No discipline. Teach your kids some farking manners and morals and don't treat them like they'll be scarred for life if you tell them they're doing something wrong. For the love of FSM, a couple of the schools near me won't even let the teachers use red pens because it could "cause emotional scarring". WTF.

/ARGH
//My lawn, off it.


I started first grade back in '85, and back then, the principal could still paddle kids who got into trouble. However, he would have to calls the child's parents for permission.

/Once asked my Mom if she would give that permission.
//She said yes.

Same here (except I started in '84). I'd like to think I'm a normal, productive member of society today because of it.


Same here roughly same time 87 I think, public school too, it was bare butt with one of those half moon shaped plastic pan strainers, the kind with the holes in it, so there was more surface area for the paddle to hit or something, all I know is paddles with holes in them were WAY, WAY WORSE then a switch or a solid paddle.

It was like the thing in the middle of this pic but it didn't fold, it was one solid piece of pain inducing plastic.

s7ondemand1.scene7.comView Full Size
 
2009-10-22 4:33:27 PM  

Fano: 1) During my internship my final client had been raped by 13 men set up by her mother, for her 13th birthday (filmed and distributed by the mother). That kind of scarred me.

.

What was her Sweet Sixteen like?


13 out of 14 people really enjoyed it.
 
2009-10-22 4:33:55 PM  

kxs401:
Wow, my uterus just sealed itself shut.


I'll get it back open!

/how YOU doin?
 
2009-10-22 4:33:59 PM  

detfrost1: 1) During my internship my final client had been raped by 13 men set up by her mother, for her 13th birthday (filmed and distributed by the mother). That kind of scarred me.


What the hell...
 
2009-10-22 4:34:00 PM  

snocone: Kids come with handles, called ears.



My dad used to do that. He'd grab my ear and ask me if I was deaf or hard of hearing. Turned out I had genetic hearing loss and I did, in fact, have trouble hearing...
 
2009-10-22 4:34:06 PM  

Nilatir: Billy Ligue: PumpUpDaFark: Gamer Grrrl: Shostie: TFA : We congratulate our toddlers for blowing their nose ("Good job!")

Jesus, man. If my toddler suddenly figured out how to blow her nose I'd throw a parade. It'd be one less thing I would have to help her with.

The less I have to touch toddler snot, the better.

/I don't thave any kids, but I can see why you'd want your 3-year-old to blow her own nose.

OMFG!!! TODDLER SNOT!!!

How about crusty toddler buggers the size of a pea? You know the kind you need a tweezers to remove from their noses.

Shop-Vac and a straw, works every time.


It works fine, how do you get their little lungs to re-inflate? I've sometimes had a problem with that. They never look good in blue.
 
2009-10-22 4:34:38 PM  
Well I was going to be a social worker until 2 things happened.

1) During my internship my final client had been raped by 13 men set up by her mother, for her 13th birthday (filmed and distributed by the mother). That kind of scarred me.

Holy crap are you serious? I had a buddy that wanted to be a cop and on his first ride along they went to a 2 bedroom house with like 30 people living in it, each one a meth head, and a 10 year old that was raped constantly by multiple people living there. It was also his LAST ride along.
 
2009-10-22 4:34:47 PM  

Fano: detfrost1: girljen: detfrost: I'm not going to read this article I just want to say this:

Parents: PLEASE SPANK YOUR KIDS when absolutely necessary, but do not punch, kick, choke, backhand, gouge, rape, slash, stab, shoot, poison, bludgeon or in anyway actually physically abuse your kids. A hickory switch, or a belt to the bottom for severe infractions will not cause permanent damage (note, that doesn't mean you can beat their ass until you break their farking tail bone, they bleed, use a 2x4, or have massive deep bruising as this will only desensitize them and make spanking less effective anyway).

Remember physical punishment is to teach them a lesson, not to give you revenge.

PARENTS PLEASE YELL AT YOUR CHILDREN (often): However, do not call them derogatory names (i.e. fa-got, pussy, etc) or in other ways emotionally abuse them, because it WILL come back to bite you in the ass, somehow, someway.

Thank you.
Much Love,
The rest of the world.

I am intrigued by your ideas, and would like to subscribe to your parenting magazine.

/have never spanked my toddler
//have yelled, dragged her out kicking and screaming, and refused to replace broken toys

Thank you for the complement! The broken toy thing...great idea.

Well I was going to be a social worker until 2 things happened.

1) During my internship my final client had been raped by 13 men set up by her mother, for her 13th birthday (filmed and distributed by the mother). That kind of scarred me.

.

What was her Sweet Sixteen like?


Doctor Funkenstein: Fano: 1) During my internship my final client had been raped by 13 men set up by her mother, for her 13th birthday (filmed and distributed by the mother). That kind of scarred me.

.

What was her Sweet Sixteen like?

13 out of 14 people really enjoyed it.


Ha ha...that kid was seriously farked in the head, and a master at manipulation by the time we got to her.

Sad case :(
 
2009-10-22 4:35:24 PM  

12349876: EmperorSled: She also had a mother spend over two hours putting the daughter back into the corner every 5 minutes.fark

That only happens the first time. And it's better discipline than physical or verbal abuse.


That's frigging hysterial. I'm guessing you don't work with kids, like, at all. And no, having a couple doesn't count; something working on your kids does not mean it works for all of them, and only a blithering moron would think all children react equally to all forms of discipline.

My ex-wife was a nanny. I've seen her spend hours putting a child back into time-out, because the parents had a strict policy against physical discipline of any kind. Kid would also hit his mother to get attention, full on face slaps if he could reach. Nothing worked.

Until the mom decided enough was enough, and allowed spanking. Kid smartened up in a matter of days.


This is also why teachers (my profession, FWIW) have a no-hands-on rule pretty much everywhere, but ALSO have the capacity to say "okay, your kid is a shiathole, you take him back and discipline him right and maybe he can come back in here again." Because there's a clear recognition that verbal and social measures don't always work.


Frankly, refusing to discipline your child properly so that they grow up to be enormous dickwads is a far greater abuse of that child than spanking them a couple times or raising your voice a bit now and then. And you'd have to be a special kind of retarded to think otherwise.

The same kind of retarded as pacifists who assume that their beliefs could work in the absence of military forces and police willing to do violence in protecting their refusal to defend themselves from human nature.
 
2009-10-22 4:35:48 PM  

sseye: Where the fark did you live that kids were once pure and polite and never got pregnant? Disneyland?


I don't know if it's intentional or not but with its history of rabid antisemitism, sexism and racism and its modern productions of hyper-sexualized Miley Cyrus clones, that statement is an irony explosion.
 
2009-10-22 4:36:07 PM  
3.5 year old - timeouts work (one minute per year of life, so 3.5 minutes these days) - haven't had to spank, tried it once but it was pointless as he was already neurotic.

Flame away but calm, rational explanation of why he has to do this or that or can't have this or that or whatever seems to work with this kid. I know they're not all the same. But save the spanking as a last resort. I was all for it until I realized it was unnecessary. My parents spanked me almost daily but from what they tell me, I was the Spawn of Satan and deserved it (I do recall being one helluva brat until 10 or so, not sure what changed).

When I see parents in public (Wal-Mart especially) say 'do this! *SLAP*' I just shake my head, and encourage my boy to look the other way. They don't even give the kid a warning. Poor kid just has a confused look on its face. At least make sure they know why they're getting the hand. And don't be shocked when they hit you, other kids, teachers, police, cellmates, etc
 
2009-10-22 4:36:33 PM  

detfrost1: Ha ha...that kid was seriously farked in the head, and a master at manipulation by the time we got to her.

Sad case :(


I can imagine. I feel bad about making fun now. That's absolutely atrocious.
 
2009-10-22 4:36:40 PM  

unicron702: Well I was going to be a social worker until 2 things happened.

1) During my internship my final client had been raped by 13 men set up by her mother, for her 13th birthday (filmed and distributed by the mother). That kind of scarred me.

Holy crap are you serious? I had a buddy that wanted to be a cop and on his first ride along they went to a 2 bedroom house with like 30 people living in it, each one a meth head, and a 10 year old that was raped constantly by multiple people living there. It was also his LAST ride along.


Quite.

Oh, I forgot to add, mom was a coke, and probably meth head, but I think people called it ICE back then (or is that not the same thing I don't take drugs). They lived in a trailer park in BFE, which will come as a surprise to all of you.

I can empathize with your former cop buddy.
 
2009-10-22 4:36:44 PM  
"Whatever happened to being made to pick your own hickory switch? And if it wasn't stiff enough, you'd have to go back and get a proper one and get spanked twice as long for trying to lessen your pain?!"

Wow, you brought back some memories from, when I visited/lived with my grandmother. Most of the time, the ass whippings were done by her maid, Mert.

/Mississippi, early 70's
 
2009-10-22 4:36:57 PM  
I only had to spank my kids until they were about 5 or so. After that, they knew when they were pushing things too far and would tone it down when "Psycho Dad" started to emerge.

They turned out fine.
 
2009-10-22 4:37:14 PM  
Let me see if I can explain:

Parenting when you've lost your temper is a bad thing. It's dangerous to be out of control of your emotions. But at some point, a bunch of granola tree-hugging free-love hippies decided that nobody would EVER spank, yell, or otherwise exhibit signs of anger if they weren't INCREDIBLY angry. Therefore, spanking and yelling just be signs of anger. So they try to convince parents to use all these touchy-feely parenting methods that flat-out DON'T WORK.

Scenario A: I tell my son to take his shoes to his closet instead of leaving them in the living room floor. He ignores me. I give him one swat on the rear with a wooden spoon and again say, "Take your shoes to your closet." He takes his shoes to his closet. All is well.

Scenario B: I tell my son to take his shoes to his closet instead of leaving them in the living room floor. He ignores me. I tell him again to take his shoes to his closet. He ignores me again. I raise my voice to him. He ignores me again. I raise my voice louder, screaming this time. He ignores me again. At this point, I'm getting frustrated. I yell at him to take his shoes to the closet. Maybe he does, but I've lost control of the situation and have diminished my authority in the eyes of my son. Maybe he ignores me again. Either way, I'm angry and out of control.

Spanking is not necessary for all children, but a well-controlled spanking given fairly early in the incident is far less damaging to a parent's mood, a parent-child relationship, and a child's self-esteem than an out-of-control parent screaming/spanking/abusing/belittling/etc. a child.
 
2009-10-22 4:37:36 PM  
"Tsst"
 
2009-10-22 4:38:46 PM  
I am sick and tired of hearing that farking speech. You know? These people come out of rehab they always have the same story. "Well you know, I became an alcoholic because my parents didn't love me enough. And then I became a junkie because my parents didn't love me enough. And I went into hypnosis and therapy and I found out that parents used to hit me." Hey! My parents used to beat the living shiat out of me! Ok? And looking back on it, I'm glad they did! And I'm looking forward to beating the shiat out of my kids, aren't you? For no reason whatsoever. *thbbt* "What'd you hit me for?" "Shutup and get out there and mow the lawn for Christ's sake!" There's therapy for ya! Mowing the lawn and crying at the same time. "The Leary kids in therapy again. Their lawn looks great, it's unbelieveable!"

- Denis Leary
 
2009-10-22 4:38:54 PM  

pwhp_67: So I'm at the movies and this girl behind me is kicking my seat. I turn around, glare at her, and hope she gets the message. She doesn't.

So I turn around again and tell her to quit it. She doesn't.

So I tell the mom that her kid is kicking my seat and I'm not happy. She quits for a while then starts up again halfway during the movie.

When the movie is over I turn to the mom and say, "Your kid kicked my seat through the whole movie. That's how you're raising your kid? Good job."

She got mad at me and tells me that "she's just a little kid". I said, "I know. That's why I told you to do something and that's why I'm telling you now. Your kid is a brat."

As she's leaving the theater she yells at me: "She's just a kid!"

Me, "I know. Parent your goddam kid - she's a pain in the ass!"


At some point she decided that because her child is young it's perfectly OK for her to act like an ass. Am I missing something? Was my reaction to "she's just a kid" supposed to have been something like, "Oh! I'm sorry! I will not complain then..."


Had one of my kids done that, I would have forced them to stop, apologize to you and then we would have taken a trip to the bathroom so I could correct their behavior with a talking to and a swat on the bottom. And, I would have paid you for your seat.

/NO excuse for that what so ever
//the child's actions and the biatch's reaction
 
2009-10-22 4:39:57 PM  
I raised three children, starting when I was 17. I yelled allot. Spanked them often as well. I am now 49, and in August my 9 1/2 y.o. grandson moved in with my wife and I. I have yet to feel the need to yell, let alone hit him. Yes, he is unruly at times. He neglects his chores, homework etc., but I sit him down and explain to him why we have rules and what is expected of him. I have had to take away privileges a few times. I can honestly tell you his behavior has changed for the better in two months time. Kids understand more than most adults give them credit for.
I have come to the conclusion that no one should have kids until they are in their 40's.
 
2009-10-22 4:40:40 PM  

Toots McGee: Can somebody explain to me, just what the fark was wrong about how we were disciplined that today's parents think it needs to be so dramatically altered?


Well I don't know about you, but my old man used to use a leather belt that left welts, and this one time he actully drew blood, about two to three times a week. Then there was the time that he almost killed my brother by throwing him through a wall.

Oh and if I had been just a little unhappier, a little bit angrier, or a little bit crazier I'd have blown his farking head off with a shotgun. When I was 14 we were out hunting rabbits and the mother farker crossed in front of me, I raised the shotgun and had a moment of regret, hesitation, or rational thought (I'm not sure which) and pulled the shot at the last minute. Yeah that was the last time we ever hunted togther.

My mom on the other hand prefered hot wheel strips, plastic hangers, plastic and aluminum tubes, and her shoe. She was also a drunk and a drug addict so her punishments came at random.

I don't recomend their parenting style, because out of three kids two turned into drunks/drug addicts and one hates their farking guts.
 
2009-10-22 4:40:40 PM  

detfrost1: I'm not going to read this article I just want to say this:

Parents: PLEASE SPANK YOUR KIDS when absolutely necessary, but do not punch, kick, choke, backhand, gouge, rape, slash, stab, shoot, poison, bludgeon or in anyway actually physically abuse your kids. A hickory switch, or a belt to the bottom for severe infractions will not cause permanent damage (note, that doesn't mean you can beat their ass until you break their farking tail bone, they bleed, use a 2x4, or have massive deep bruising as this will only desensitize them and make spanking less effective anyway).

Remember physical punishment is to teach them a lesson, not to give you revenge.

PARENTS PLEASE YELL AT YOUR CHILDREN (often): However, do not call them derogatory names (i.e. fa-got, pussy, etc) or in other ways emotionally abuse them, because it WILL come back to bite you in the ass, somehow, someway.

Thank you.
Much Love,
The rest of the world.



I am a parent of two very well adjusted children and I endorse this ad.
 
2009-10-22 4:40:43 PM  

Devil's Playground: I raised three children, starting when I was 17. I yelled allot. Spanked them often as well. I am now 49, and in August my 9 1/2 y.o. grandson moved in with my wife and I. I have yet to feel the need to yell, let alone hit him. Yes, he is unruly at times. He neglects his chores, homework etc., but I sit him down and explain to him why we have rules and what is expected of him. I have had to take away privileges a few times. I can honestly tell you his behavior has changed for the better in two months time. Kids understand more than most adults give them credit for.
I have come to the conclusion that no one should have kids until they are in their 40's.


Early 30's and I agree with you.
 
2009-10-22 4:41:05 PM  
I know a few sets of parents in their 30's who have decided that telling their snowflakes "No" is harmful to them and refuse to do it. Their children are demons. I dread having to be in the same room with them.

/ I know, I know, cool story ho...
 
2009-10-22 4:41:10 PM  

Mykroft: 3.5 year old - timeouts work (one minute per year of life, so 3.5 minutes these days) - haven't had to spank, tried it once but it was pointless as he was already neurotic.

Flame away but calm, rational explanation of why he has to do this or that or can't have this or that or whatever seems to work with this kid. I know they're not all the same. But save the spanking as a last resort. I was all for it until I realized it was unnecessary. My parents spanked me almost daily but from what they tell me, I was the Spawn of Satan and deserved it (I do recall being one helluva brat until 10 or so, not sure what changed).

When I see parents in public (Wal-Mart especially) say 'do this! *SLAP*' I just shake my head, and encourage my boy to look the other way. They don't even give the kid a warning. Poor kid just has a confused look on its face. At least make sure they know why they're getting the hand. And don't be shocked when they hit you, other kids, teachers, police, cellmates, etc


Dude, if I could I'd spend a couple months with a video camera following families around in Wal-Mart. Then I would cut all the best footage together into the ultimate How Not To Parent self-help DVD.
 
2009-10-22 4:41:23 PM  
I'm a parenting snob. I believe my children are my responsibility -- and if they at any time negatively affecting other adults in a public place, I owe that adult an apology followed up by an immediate correction of my own kids' behavior.

I think there's about 200 strategies out there for grooming children for society. Use the ones that work -- but dammit, do something. If you want to criticize someone else for the manner in which they're disciplining their kids -- I'd like to suggest you spend your efforts talking to the parents that never discipline their kids -- because there's A LOT of them out there.

Thanks.
 
2009-10-22 4:42:10 PM  

platkat: Even kids know what an unrestrained idiot you look like when you feel the need to scream. If you don't have a modicum of patience, don't have children.


Start at around 6:20 if you don't have time to sit through the whole thing.
 
2009-10-22 4:42:12 PM  

The Mind Boggles: the child's actions and the biatch's reaction



It was the mom that really got me. I told my wife later that this lady had no clue that I was far more irritated with her than I was with her child. She kept making excuses for her kid and I kept trying to tell her she was a shiatty parent. That's how farked up this society is. He's picking on my child! No, no I'm not...
 
2009-10-22 4:42:51 PM  

gambitsgirl: detfrost1: I'm not going to read this article I just want to say this:

Parents: PLEASE SPANK YOUR KIDS when absolutely necessary, but do not punch, kick, choke, backhand, gouge, rape, slash, stab, shoot, poison, bludgeon or in anyway actually physically abuse your kids. A hickory switch, or a belt to the bottom for severe infractions will not cause permanent damage (note, that doesn't mean you can beat their ass until you break their farking tail bone, they bleed, use a 2x4, or have massive deep bruising as this will only desensitize them and make spanking less effective anyway).

Remember physical punishment is to teach them a lesson, not to give you revenge.

PARENTS PLEASE YELL AT YOUR CHILDREN (often): However, do not call them derogatory names (i.e. fa-got, pussy, etc) or in other ways emotionally abuse them, because it WILL come back to bite you in the ass, somehow, someway.

Thank you.
Much Love,
The rest of the world.


I am a parent of two very well adjusted children and I endorse this ad.


Thanks!
But....

ultimatecomics.free.frView Full Size


How'd you have kids Rogue? Didn't you just sap their powers out when you gave birth?
:D
 
2009-10-22 4:44:08 PM  

kxs401: Personally, I plan to parent my (hypothetical) children through sheer terror. They will constantly wonder what kind of mood mommy is going to be in. I plan to give them absolutely no consistency and alternate smothering them with neglecting them. They will never know when setting fire to their brother's hair will earn a shrug, or accidentally knocking over a glass of milk will result in 20 minutes of screaming about their utter uselessness.

I will NOT spank them, though. That's barbaric.


Wow, that was my dad. Except he did hit. Mom never hit and rarely yelled. She used the most powerful tool: guilt trips. Today, she's my best friend and I just avoid him.

Brother has infinite patience with his kids, never spanks and never yells. His kids are two of the most well-behaved I've ever seen. The only time they've ever been yelled at was by Grandpa, and they now avoid him, too.

In summary, I don't think spanking and yelling are necessary to raise good kids.
 
2009-10-22 4:44:26 PM  

damageddude: platkat: Even kids know what an unrestrained idiot you look like when you feel the need to scream. If you don't have a modicum of patience, don't have children.

You obviously have never had children. No matter how calm, patient and rational you are, there are times you lose it, like when the kids are fighting over something stupid, your son refuses to even try to do his homework even when you've painstakingly told him what to do and offered to help, when the toys you asked/told/demanded to be picked up are still on the floor and you've just stepped on one in your bare feet, or you're just having a really bad day and this is what puts it over the top.

Sometimes you need to vent and there will be times where you can't vent the right way and just lose it. I'm more of a a voice raiser than a yeller but occasionally lose it. Talking rationally gets tuned out just as much as yelling -- sometimes even more so because you're never sure that your child heard you. My wife yells so infrequently that when she loses it the kids know they are in BIG trouble.

/grew up in a Jewish house -- screaming was talking
//for the most part our kids are well behaved.


Kidsd here, never yelled. Yelling and hitting is a sign of lack of control when you are a parent. You are the adult, you have the power, no need to hit or yell. If you do you failed a long time ago.

Nice for you that you grew up in a yelling household and learned nothing from the experience other than 'yelling is perfectly fine'.
 
2009-10-22 4:44:29 PM  

Thorak: Nuuu: Personally I think you can get a lot of insight into how to control your kids at home based on how kids maintain authority on the playground.

The kid who yells, flies into a rage, and hits things is always going to be looked at as a spaz. Conversely, the kid who is always calm, confronts and deals with people easily, with poise and wit, and if they need to, or want to, can beat the shiat out of someone without breaking a sweat or losing a smile, that's the kid who maintains high standing.

The same goes for parenting, anytime you yell at your kids or hit them out of anger, you may win the battle but you're losing your authority little by little. On the other hand, if you always deal with your kids with wit and firm, reasoned, father-knows-best care, you'll do fine. Spanking is ok, if you're literally at wits end, but if you can't count on your hands the number of times you've spanked your child, you either have little wit, or are a sadist.

I can tell you're one of those twits who think that physical punishment and raised voices equate to anger and losing control.

There's a giant frigging chasm of difference between spanking your child and beating them, and between raising your voice and screaming epithets. It is a difference primarily consisting of loss of control. Your entire point is about how losing control undermines your authority. It has absolutely fark all to do with yelling or spanking.


The important question isn't whether or not you believe you're in control when you're yelling or spanking, but what your child thinks. You may think that yelling at your child is just part of your ordinary discipline plan, but if your kid sees it as you flipping out, then it is you flipping out, and that is going to cost you authority in the long run. I also understand that there is a wide chasm between raising your voice and screaming epithets, which is why I never said anything about raised voices. You must have heard me wrong. There is, comparatively, a narrower chasm between screaming epithets and just plain screaming, or even yelling. A parent may need to rise above the noise to ensure that they have their child's full, undivided attention, but anything past that, anything that breaches that calm and collected persona, makes it look like you're fighting for control rather than an omnipresent force of parental authority.

And speaking of flipping out. In your Weeners to a random internet poster, you call him a twit, drop a filtered F bomb, and make about two exaggerated analogies. If this bears any resemblance to how you handle your own children, I can understand why you're on the defensive.
 
2009-10-22 4:44:37 PM  

gambitsgirl: detfrost1: I'm not going to read this article I just want to say this:

Parents: PLEASE SPANK YOUR KIDS when absolutely necessary, but do not punch, kick, choke, backhand, gouge, rape, slash, stab, shoot, poison, bludgeon or in anyway actually physically abuse your kids. A hickory switch, or a belt to the bottom for severe infractions will not cause permanent damage (note, that doesn't mean you can beat their ass until you break their farking tail bone, they bleed, use a 2x4, or have massive deep bruising as this will only desensitize them and make spanking less effective anyway).

Remember physical punishment is to teach them a lesson, not to give you revenge.

PARENTS PLEASE YELL AT YOUR CHILDREN (often): However, do not call them derogatory names (i.e. fa-got, pussy, etc) or in other ways emotionally abuse them, because it WILL come back to bite you in the ass, somehow, someway.

Thank you.
Much Love,
The rest of the world.


I am a parent of two very well adjusted children and I endorse this ad.


I generally agree; except for the spanking. A spank that is hard enough to hurt does damage to the muscles. A switch is the way to go (not a belt).

Many's the time my oldest would say "Dad, would you just hit me instead of yelling at me".

The Chinese water torture method of punishment works best - endlessly repeated mantras - at some point they will obey just to not to have to hear them anymore.
 
2009-10-22 4:44:40 PM  

itazurakko: Don't they sell those rubber squeeze bulbs just for that sorta thing?


that works well for wet, runny snot, but when it's hardened to a pebble, and right in the nares, then you can get hold of it with a tweezers and pull it out, root and all.
 
2009-10-22 4:44:51 PM  
Have you tied just sitting down with your children ... and hitting them?

benderc.netView Full Size
 
2009-10-22 4:44:54 PM  
I guess it's probably bad to tell them that this is going to hurt them more than this is going to hurt me, huh?

I'd probably get called into CPS if I ever had kids. So many candy-ass rudy-poo bs parenting techniques are in play nowadays that I'd get stopped the first time I ever went out in public with the tyke.
 
2009-10-22 4:45:37 PM  
I don't have any kids yet, but my husband and I have been trying for a while. Consequently, I've given a lot of thought lately to how I'll raise my kids. I was spanked growing up. Granted, not often (probably only 4 or 5 times total) but certainly it was a possibility as an "ultimate punishment." It blew me away when the article said that spanking "is still considered by some religious and conservative groups to be an effective form of discipline." That makes it sound like only crazy, nutjob cults are still spanking. I knew that it had become much less common, but I still figured it was a relatively widely used disciplinary technique. I plan to at least have it on the table when I have kids. Hopefully I use it seldomly but it's strange to think that it's become so taboo that only "religious and conservative groups" are doing it.

Am I way out of touch? I live in the south so maybe it really is a regional thing, but I honestly thought that it was still somewhat common to spank.
 
2009-10-22 4:46:00 PM  

The_Sponge: Dalar: PH Neutral: This is how it works:

-Kid does something wrong or that reasonably upsets you.
-Ask the child why he did it. Explain to the kid why this was not appropriate, asking the child when you are finished if they understand.
-Kid does it again.
-Spank kid and explain not following rules has consequences.
-Repeat as needed.

I guarantee you your kid will get the picture quickly, and grow up normal and well-adjusted. Everyone I know did... except the kid who wasn't spanked.

You must know very few people. And must have been in an upper to middle class family. Try growing up like that when you're always hungry, and see if that abuse helped the situation.


Spanking does not equal abuse.


hey next time you get caught speeding, how about the cop just beats you for a few minutes...you know, like five hits for every mile over the speed limit.

/spankin a child that can comprehend consequences is counter-reproductive.
 
2009-10-22 4:46:09 PM  

Blink: If you want to criticize someone else for the manner in which they're disciplining their kids -- I'd like to suggest you spend your efforts talking to the parents that never discipline their kids -- because there's A LOT of them out there.



Yeah, there's something else that works too: Complimenting a kid or the kid's parents. We always told our daughter that other people notice your behavior even if they don't say anything. We'd point out some kid who was acting up and ask her if she noticed the kid. I think it really sank in though when people would compliment her on her manners or good behavior or when they went out of their way to say something to us right in front of her. We'd say, see? They noticed...
 
2009-10-22 4:46:41 PM  

detfrost1:

Thanks!
But....

How'd you have kids Rogue? Didn't you just sap their powers out when you gave birth?
:D



MAD POINTS FOR BEING ONE OF THE FIRST TO GET THAT!!!!

/and no, the took my powers and sap my energy every day
 
2009-10-22 4:46:49 PM  

scarmig: scalpod: Whatever happened to being made to pick your own hickory switch? And if it wasn't stiff enough, you'd have to go back and get a proper one and get spanked twice as long for trying to lessen your pain?!

*raises hand*

I distinctly remember my father saying, "No, that's not a switch. *SNAP* This is a switch.


To this day I refuse to have a river birch tree in my yard. The flexible branches hurt worse.
 
2009-10-22 4:47:00 PM  
Parents should be able to discipline their children in whatever fashion they see fit. I mean, granted, don't punch your kid in the face or anything, but a good lashing keeps them in line. With my kids, i'm not afraid to pull the belt off or hit them across the back with a hickory stick, but they sure as hell aren't pitching a fit in wal-mart while I'm trying to shop.

This is what's wrong w/ the world, this is why we have rotten children running around. Give them one week at my house and I'll break them from that, I guarantee it.
 
2009-10-22 4:47:42 PM  

Speedbts alt: whoviantrekkie: Children are a life ruining experience that will mess up your careers and social life forever. I fail to understand why people want to have them...

When mine reached 4 months and starting really responding to me with smiles and laughs it changed my life more profoundly than anything else ever has. Kids aren't for everyone, but I felt like you for a large part of my life and I have never been so happy as to be totally wrong.


The Octomom is curled up in the fetal position right now. Sobbing. Uncontrollably.
/your post, I love it
//could have written it myself :)
 
2009-10-22 4:47:45 PM  
"hey next time you get caught speeding, how about the cop just beats you for a few minutes...you know, like five hits for every mile over the speed limit."

i524.photobucket.comView Full Size
 
2009-10-22 4:47:58 PM  

gambitsgirl: detfrost1:

Thanks!
But....

How'd you have kids Rogue? Didn't you just sap their powers out when you gave birth?
:D


MAD POINTS FOR BEING ONE OF THE FIRST TO GET THAT!!!!

/and no, the took my powers and sap my energy every day


HA! I can imagine.
 
2009-10-22 4:48:24 PM  
 
2009-10-22 4:48:51 PM  
Yelling and spanking aren't wrong. Yelling and spanking for every little infraction is wrong. A good parent chooses his battles wisely.
 
2009-10-22 4:48:56 PM  

Lex Kitten: I know a few sets of parents in their 30's who have decided that telling their snowflakes "No" is harmful to them and refuse to do it. Their children are demons. I dread having to be in the same room with them.

/ I know, I know, cool story ho...


For real? Good lord....
 
2009-10-22 4:49:12 PM  
One of the countless ways, modern liberals have ruined Western Civ.
 
2009-10-22 4:49:14 PM  
In This Thread: parents explain their parenting techniques and judge all those who use different techniques, because all children are exactly alike.

/my son earned the nickname "Destructo" from the other boys in daycare before he was even a year old.
 
2009-10-22 4:49:23 PM  

dhudd:

I generally agree; except for the spanking. A spank that is hard enough to hurt does damage to the muscles. A switch is the way to go (not a belt).

Many's the time my oldest would say "Dad, would you just hit me instead of yelling at me".

The Chinese water torture method of punishment works best - endlessly repeated mantras - at some point they will obey just to not to have to hear them anymore.



Like the other's here, I haven't had to spank them much since they turned 5. My daughter once and my son once a year. I HATE the switch since that's what I got so I won't use it. Now I really am using "taking away privileges" route with a smattering of "take a belt out of the drawer and stare them down" for fun.
 
2009-10-22 4:49:49 PM  
Bah, before he was even two years old. He was 1 at the time.
 
2009-10-22 4:50:00 PM  

bemis23: scarmig: scalpod: Whatever happened to being made to pick your own hickory switch? And if it wasn't stiff enough, you'd have to go back and get a proper one and get spanked twice as long for trying to lessen your pain?!

*raises hand*

I distinctly remember my father saying, "No, that's not a switch. *SNAP* This is a switch.

To this day I refuse to have a river birch tree in my yard. The flexible branches hurt worse.



I won't have a Yellow Belle bush
 
2009-10-22 4:50:50 PM  

mandingueiro: hey next time you get caught speeding, how about the cop just beats you for a few minutes...you know, like five hits for every mile over the speed limit.

/spankin a child that can comprehend consequences is counter-reproductive.


I wish we could still do that kind of stuff, but you hit one black guy and the world gets pussified. You're a whiny intellectual ass because your daddy never took off his belt and showed you what it means to be punished, so you go through life thinking you're better than everyone cause you've never had beltmarks on your back and legs.

People wonder why we haven't won any wars since nam.
 
2009-10-22 4:51:12 PM  

mandingueiro: hey next time you get caught speeding, how about the cop just beats you for a few minutes...you know, like five hits for every mile over the speed limit.

/spankin a child that can comprehend consequences is counter-reproductive.



First of all....how does beating = spanking?

All too often, kids don't comprehend consequences until later in life, or sometimes they're brats who deserve a swat or two on the rear.

/And that would suck.
//Got pulled over for doing 77 in a 60 back in August.
 
2009-10-22 4:51:13 PM  

Dalar: You must know very few people. And must have been in an upper to middle class family. Try growing up like that when you're always hungry, and see if that abuse helped the situation.


You're an idiot. What does money have to do with discipline? What does economic status have to do with discipline?

I was brought up in a trailer park by two parents that had to work and scrape just to get by. They made it out, raised us well, and now are well off. So am I. And frankly I credit my work ethic, manners, and discipline to how they raised me as I outlined above.

Seems like you just like to blame shiat around you, especially "circumstances." Let me know how that works.
 
2009-10-22 4:51:37 PM  

unicron702: I had a buddy that wanted to be a cop and on his first ride along they went to a 2 bedroom house with like 30 people living in it, each one a meth head, and a 10 year old that was raped constantly by multiple people living there. It was also his LAST ride along.


You're not done. That was the easy part. You should've gotten to the part where the system is all set up so that the kid was faced with either going into foster care (where they get into a "the devil you know. . ." situation) or the cop was forced to walk away to keep his job.

morgantx: I tell my son to take his shoes to his closet instead of leaving them in the living room floor. He ignores me. I give him one swat on the rear with a wooden spoon and again say, "Take your shoes to your closet." He takes his shoes to his closet. All is well.


Not when your son suddenly hits a growth spurt AND "rebellious teen" phase at the same time, and realizes A) you've been using violence to manipulate him and B) he's now stronger than you.

I'm not a parent, but I've been on the receiving end of "corporal punishment" used merely to get me to do something trivial (like put away shoes) or simply because Dad was having a Bad Day. From a kid's point of view, there's little difference. If I had kids I would consider corporal punishment, but only under the condition that the kid is being such a dumbass that any consequences will be far more painful than the beating.
 
2009-10-22 4:51:41 PM  

pwhp_67: So I'm at the movies and this girl behind me is kicking my seat. ..."


Mothers are way too permissive with their kids.
That's why single-parent homes (read: Where the Mother raises the kids) don't work out for raising kids who behave properly.
Dads don't put up with that sh*t.
 
2009-10-22 4:52:00 PM  
This guy has a handle on it I think:

i33.tinypic.comView Full Size
 
2009-10-22 4:52:21 PM  
Our current society is all about throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

If something is abused, we don't speak out against the abuse, we simply trash the whole thing being abused. If someone overdoes spanking, we throw out spanking. If someone overdoes yelling, we throw out yelling.

Apparently the fact that something can be done wrong means that thing is bad. Because clearly something that is good can never be done incorrectly.

And so we keep on searching for the perfect un-wrongable right thing.
 
2009-10-22 4:52:30 PM  

tartie_pants: I have to say unfortunately I inherited my mother's yelling style.. we smile and smile and take it and take it until we snap like a twig and go apoplectic.


mama?
 
2009-10-22 4:52:51 PM  
Yup, took a poll of the one 14 year old here in the house. Told her about this no-yelling no-spanking business, and she said:

"I think it's retarded."

/and that's that.
//yeah, she was spanked and yelled at
///only yelled at this week
 
2009-10-22 4:54:06 PM  

Pxtl: In This Thread: parents explain their parenting techniques and judge all those who use different techniques, because all children are exactly alike.

/my son earned the nickname "Destructo" from the other boys in daycare before he was even a year old.


I have two older brothers. Apparently the oldest was spanked occasionally, the middle almost none. And then there was me. I think I was probably spanked at least once a day between the ages of 3 and 6. And I spent a lot of time standing in the corner (timeout).

/yes, I was a mouthy brat.
 
2009-10-22 4:54:11 PM  

dragonchild: If I had kids I would consider corporal punishment, but only under the condition that the kid is being such a dumbass that any consequences will be far more painful than the beating.



Exactly. I never ruled it out but as it turned out it was never needed. Most kids want you to be proud of them. Until they're in their teens anyway. Of course, we have a girl and I've heard they're a LOT easier than boys. She might have gotten a swat on the butt once by her mom but that's about it...
 
2009-10-22 4:54:24 PM  

mandingueiro: spankin a child that can comprehend consequences is counter-reproductive.


Posting stuff without any explanation is equally so.

How do you figure it being counter-productive? It worked for me. I was told not to do "X." I tested the limits and did it anyway. I got spanked. I didn't do it again because I learned it wouldn't be tolerated. Tah-dah.
 
2009-10-22 4:55:12 PM  

Nuuu: The important question isn't whether or not you believe you're in control when you're yelling or spanking, but what your child thinks. You may think that yelling at your child is just part of your ordinary discipline plan, but if your kid sees it as you flipping out, then it is you flipping out, and that is going to cost you authority in the long run.


The tone of voice is very key. Merely being loud isn't the same as yelling, at least as I see it. It's when the tinge of hysteria creeps in that it's game over.

Billy Ligue: that works well for wet, runny snot, but when it's hardened to a pebble, and right in the nares, then you can get hold of it with a tweezers and pull it out, root and all.


I can DEFINITELY understand why people want to teach their kids to pick their own noses, pronto...!
 
2009-10-22 4:55:20 PM  
Not An Alt:
This is what's wrong w/ the world, this is why we have rotten children running around. Give them one week at my house and I'll break them from that, I guarantee it.

After yesterday, I hesitate to respond to you, but if you are serious: You do not break children

If you are not serious, how do I get this damn hook out of my mouth.
 
2009-10-22 4:55:24 PM  
When I was growing up I distinctly remember wishing my dad would hit me. Being hit sounded infinitely better than a 4-hour expletive-laden shouting spree of...well let's not go down that road.

/nope, never did hit me
//why yes, I am in therapy
///:)
 
2009-10-22 4:55:39 PM  

Well I was going to be a social worker until 2 things happened.

1) During my internship my final client had been raped by 13 men set up by her mother, for her 13th birthday (filmed and distributed by the mother). That kind of scarred me.


WTF.


I really could never go into public service or medicine. I can't handle these stories.
 
2009-10-22 4:55:40 PM  

Toots McGee: Can somebody explain to me, just what the fark was wrong about how we were disciplined that today's parents think it needs to be so dramatically altered?


I have no idea. I'm going with wanting to give their children the things they feel they didn't have (toys, books, whatever), coupled with a rise in awareness about child abuse.

I've been around enough parents now to see a fear among them today that Child Protective Services will swoop down out of the trees and take their children away from them if the so much as sternly talk to their children (a bit of hyperbole, but you get my point).

The ones that never raise their voice or plead with their child rather than remove them from the situation (like say out to the car at a restaurant) are the ones most paranoid.

Pretty soon taking a toy away as discipline will be linked with an adults preoccupation with accumulating material things; and will be discouraged.

We call "playpens" "play-yards" now for goodness sake! Because a child young enough to be in one really has his or her feelings hurt at the idea of being placed in a playpen, rather than a play-yard.
 
2009-10-22 4:55:54 PM  

Jeff73: This guy has a handle on it I think:


Holy farking shait, that's good stuff.
 
2009-10-22 4:56:01 PM  
If you spanked, then you wouldn't have to shout. Problem solved.
 
2009-10-22 4:56:07 PM  

mandingueiro:

hey next time you get caught speeding, how about the cop just beats you for a few minutes...you know, like five hits for every mile over the speed limit.

/spankin a child that can comprehend consequences is counter-reproductive.


I don't spank with out telling them why. I don't spank in anger. I ask if they understand WHY they are getting spanked. JUST LIKE THE COURTS DO WHEN YOU GET PUNISHED.... jus sayin
 
2009-10-22 4:56:33 PM  
I thought you were supposed to shake your kids to make 'em stop crying.
 
2009-10-22 4:56:47 PM  
Okay, I don't have kids, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the method of punishment is less important than the mindset when you punish.

For example, it's important that you be calm, that the child understands why they're being punished, and that punishments be consistently applied. It seems like these things matter more than whether the punishment is a spanking, a time-out, or a restriction of privileges.
 
2009-10-22 4:57:16 PM  

itazurakko: Billy Ligue: How about crusty toddler buggers the size of a pea? You know the kind you need a tweezers to remove from their noses.

Don't they sell those rubber squeeze bulbs just for that sorta thing?

They say when it's your own kid it's all okay and good. I dunno :)


The rounded end of a bobby pin is better. You can really hook it and pull it out.
Q-tips just shove the crap further up.
Fingernails are okay, but I hate ruining a perfectly good manicure.
 
2009-10-22 4:57:26 PM  

whoviantrekkie: OlafTheBent: Ennuipoet: Not a big fan of the little ones.

I've never laughed as hard at a dinner table as I do with the wife and kids now.

/They're funny as Hell

Children are a life ruining experience that will mess up your careers and social life forever. I fail to understand why people want to have them...



Too bad your parents didn't feel the same way....
 
2009-10-22 4:58:00 PM  

Pxtl: In This Thread: parents explain their parenting techniques and judge all those who use different techniques, because all children are exactly alike.


I will say, even without any kids I've managed to have a laugh or two at a particular neighbor who was blessed with a really calm kid and chalked it all up to what a great mom she was, to the point of really being sanctimonious to other moms - until she had Kid #2 who was just a completely different personality.

Some part of it is just farking random.
 
2009-10-22 4:58:11 PM  

mysticcat: Mommy drinks because you cry


/approves (new window)
 
2009-10-22 4:58:22 PM  

bemis23: scarmig: scalpod: Whatever happened to being made to pick your own hickory switch? And if it wasn't stiff enough, you'd have to go back and get a proper one and get spanked twice as long for trying to lessen your pain?!

*raises hand*

I distinctly remember my father saying, "No, that's not a switch. *SNAP* This is a switch.

To this day I refuse to have a river birch tree in my yard. The flexible branches hurt worse.


Yeah, willows too.
 
2009-10-22 4:58:32 PM  

Blink: I'm a parenting snob. I believe my children are my responsibility -- and if they at any time negatively affecting other adults in a public place, I owe that adult an apology followed up by an immediate correction of my own kids' behavior.


Seems to me your child owes that adult an apology as well.

Reactions to a child's behavior that irk me:

1) The parent acting like its the other person's fault for the child's actions. "Well, what are you doing with a dangerous dog in public!" after children harass the poor animal with sticks, stones, and tail pulling and the dog tells them "NO!" in so many barks and growls.

2) Parents rushing to apologize for their child's behavior in front of the child. Children have eyes, crazy I know, and if they see you swooping in like Batman to create a human shield for their mistakes, then they will continue to use you (the parent) as their human shield.

Plus, I don't give a flying monkey poo about whether the parent is sorry; the parent isn't the one who needs to get off my lawn.

Just some thoughts.
 
2009-10-22 4:58:55 PM  

Devil's Playground: After yesterday, I hesitate to respond to you, but if you are serious: You do not break children

If you are not serious, how do I get this damn hook out of my mouth.


you DO break children, that's part of raising them. If you don't, then you have spoiled little assholes that think they run the household. You bring em down a notch or two or make them understand that you correct them once before they get a pop, and you'll be in control.

Time-out doesn't do that, grounding doesn't do that, a belt across the back of the legs does.
 
2009-10-22 5:00:46 PM  
The most important part of punishment of any sort is follow-through. And i don't mean as a hitting technique ;P I mean there must be a discussion (not just lecture, though a lecture is sure a good place to start if it's serious enough) about what happened, why it was wrong/unsafe/stupid, and how they will avoid repeating the same mistake. Punishment is pointless unless the kid actually learns a lesson from it.
 
2009-10-22 5:00:47 PM  

itazurakko: Pxtl: In This Thread: parents explain their parenting techniques and judge all those who use different techniques, because all children are exactly alike.

I will say, even without any kids I've managed to have a laugh or two at a particular neighbor who was blessed with a really calm kid and chalked it all up to what a great mom she was, to the point of really being sanctimonious to other moms - until she had Kid #2 who was just a completely different personality.

Some part of it is just farking random.



OMG - you're my neighbor!!!!

/if I had number 2 first there would be no number 2
 
2009-10-22 5:01:06 PM  
Parenting = Consistency in all things.

Demeanor
Consequences
Affection
Schedule

Set rules, enforce them. Time out works the same way spanking does.

You train your kids how to respond to you. When you yell ALL the time, it means nothing. When you rarely raise your voice, but always follow through on what you say, your kids will listen.

Once you are able to communicate with your child, spanking is unnecessary.
 
2009-10-22 5:01:22 PM  

imgod2u: Jeff73: This guy has a handle on it I think:

Holy farking shait, that's good stuff.


And that's only an edited version of something that appeared on 4chan.
 
2009-10-22 5:01:37 PM  

dragonchild: Not when your son suddenly hits a growth spurt AND "rebellious teen" phase at the same time, and realizes A) you've been using violence to manipulate him and B) he's now stronger than you.

I'm not a parent, but I've been on the receiving end of "corporal punishment" used merely to get me to do something trivial (like put away shoes) or simply because Dad was having a Bad Day. From a kid's point of view, there's little difference. If I had kids I would consider corporal punishment, but only under the condition that the kid is being such a dumbass that any consequences will be far more painful than the beating.


I should probably explain... My youngest son (now 6) is the ONLY one that gets that treatment, and that's because it's the only way to get his attention. Of course, now I seldom have to do it. It's usually more of, "Put your shoes away." Then he ignores, and I clap my hands or get him to look at me and tell him very clearly (so he doesn't mistake me), "Put your shoes away." If he ignores me (i.e., refuses to do it) after that, then he gets one swat and he gets told again. After I'm sure that he's heard me correctly, his refusal to do as he's told becomes a matter of outright defiance, and that is intolerable in our household.

We spank for four things, and ONLY for four things: Disobedience, Dishonesty, Disrespect, and Defiance (Defiance is a BIG one in our house). We don't tolerate any of those things.

At this point, spanking is rare. When we ask them to do something and they don't, you can usually say, "Are you choosing to be disobedient?" and they'll jump up. Putting shoes away may be trivial, but disobeying a parent is NOT a trivial matter. Disobedience is a sign of disrespect of a parent and is NOT tolerated. That way my children learn that when I say something, I expect it to be followed. Period. That way I no longer have to repeat myself numerous times or yell in order to be heard or listened to.

Children are very smart. They know when they've pushed you too far. Watch sometime... A mom who never spanks until she's completely lost her cool is a mom who has to lose her temper and yell before her child will obey her--he'll push her as long as possible and then jump to obey only when he knows that a negative consequence is coming. Sometimes he might misjudge it, but that doesn't change what he's trying to do. If he has a mom that does 1-2-3 and actually follows up with a meaningful consequence on "3", the child will wait until 2 1/2 to follow the instructions. If, on the other hand, a parent expects to be obeyed immediately and follows through with a negative consequence (whether that's a single swat on the rear or removal of a toy or privilege), the child will learn to obey IMMEDIATELY.
 
2009-10-22 5:01:44 PM  

Death_Poot: "hey next time you get caught speeding, how about the cop just beats you for a few minutes...you know, like five hits for every mile over the speed limit."


Worzel Gummidge FTW!

"Mommy, why is Doctor Who covered in cow poop?"
 
2009-10-22 5:02:51 PM  
Somewhat on subject but it threw me for a loop and I'll come clean right at the outset - I do not have children so I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to parenting. That said, a friend of mine has a 5 year old. Awhile back, I was at his place just visiting briefly. He was going to go out to the grocery store or something like that. He put the kid in the back seat of his car...in a child seat that was fastened in with the seatbelt. Am I off base on that or is that normal? 5 seems a little old to be in a child seat in the car to me. I think when I was 5 I was riding shotgun with no seatbelt. I don't know...maybe my parents were just monsters or something and I never knew it. Either way, that was the early 1980s and people hadn't started to give a shiat about stuff like that yet.
 
2009-10-22 5:02:56 PM  
All this talk of spanking is making me horny.
 
2009-10-22 5:03:02 PM  

asmodeus224: Kidsd here, never yelled. Yelling and hitting is a sign of lack of control when you are a parent. You are the adult, you have the power, no need to hit or yell. If you do you failed a long time ago.

Nice for you that you grew up in a yelling household and learned nothing from the experience other than 'yelling is perfectly fine'.


You're another of those who confuse any raised voice or physical punishment with loss of control. I'm sure you feel that a cop who drags a criminal down and has to yank their hands behind their back to cuff them has "lost control" and is "angry", right?

And no, that's not a straw man. It serves to show that there's plenty of ways to use physical force and/or raised voices without control being lost. They are tools to REASSERT control. If your kid is acting like a little snotbag, you have ALREADY lost control. A quick swat on the bum gets them back under control right quick, and a hell of a lot more efficiently than trying to put them in timeout when they won't stay where you put them and/or start destroying anything in the room you've put them in (and yes, I'm pulling from direct personal experience with that).

Nuuu: The important question isn't whether or not you believe you're in control when you're yelling or spanking, but what your child thinks. You may think that yelling at your child is just part of your ordinary discipline plan, but if your kid sees it as you flipping out, then it is you flipping out, and that is going to cost you authority in the long run. I also understand that there is a wide chasm between raising your voice and screaming epithets, which is why I never said anything about raised voices. You must have heard me wrong. There is, comparatively, a narrower chasm between screaming epithets and just plain screaming, or even yelling. A parent may need to rise above the noise to ensure that they have their child's full, undivided attention, but anything past that, anything that breaches that calm and collected persona, makes it look like you're fighting for control rather than an omnipresent force of parental authority.


That's all I was talking about, with raised voices. If they're listening to you, and you're still yelling, you're doing it out of anger, and doing it out of anger means you're out of control. I take this stance, though, because some people think ANY raising of your voice is "bad", even a quick "Hey!" to pierce through their screaming and get them to listen to you for a second.


And speaking of flipping out. In your Weeners to a random internet poster, you call him a twit, drop a filtered F bomb, and make about two exaggerated analogies. If this bears any resemblance to how you handle your own children, I can understand why you're on the defensive.

1> They were a twit, in my opinion.
2> If Fark didn't do it automatically, it wouldn't have been filtered. Vulgarities have been a critical part of English since before English was English, and I refuse to artificially limit my vocabulary, thus limiting my ability to succinctly express myself, because someone might be offended, when we're supposedly all reasonably adult people here.
3> I go drinking with my buddies, but that doesn't mean I'll buy a toddler a beer. Almost everyone is capable of modulating behaviour based on their surroundings. I'm a teacher, and if I dropped a "fark" in a grade 5 classroom, I'd probably be having a chat with the principal about my conduct. If it were grade 7 and we were talking about Catcher in the Rye, it would be fine.

Feel free to attack my actual argument rather than the style of my posts, though. For someone who's going to harp on my analogies being a bit exaggerated, that's awfully close to being outright fallacious in your own argument.
 
2009-10-22 5:03:45 PM  

Devil's Playground: I have come to the conclusion that no one should have kids until they are in their 40's.


Who knows. Maybe the generational gap thing. My mom suddenly had completely different ideas about discipline when it came to babysitting my sister's children. Of course she was already past that 40 mark, but it was quite strange seeing her interact with children without grabbing a belt or coat hanger.
 
2009-10-22 5:05:28 PM  

Doctor Funkenstein: Somewhat on subject but it threw me for a loop and I'll come clean right at the outset - I do not have children so I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to parenting. That said, a friend of mine has a 5 year old. Awhile back, I was at his place just visiting briefly. He was going to go out to the grocery store or something like that. He put the kid in the back seat of his car...in a child seat that was fastened in with the seatbelt. Am I off base on that or is that normal? 5 seems a little old to be in a child seat in the car to me. I think when I was 5 I was riding shotgun with no seatbelt. I don't know...maybe my parents were just monsters or something and I never knew it. Either way, that was the early 1980s and people hadn't started to give a shiat about stuff like that yet.



It's 8 or 80 lbs in most places - but the law varies by state.


Wendy's Chili: All this talk of spanking is making me horny.



woah - what are you doing out here
 
2009-10-22 5:05:38 PM  

Propaganda Panda: 2) Parents rushing to apologize for their child's behavior in front of the child. Children have eyes, crazy I know, and if they see you swooping in like Batman to create a human shield for their mistakes, then they will continue to use you (the parent) as their human shield.


any parent that rushes up to me and tries to apologize for their little brat instead of putting him or her in line will get kicked in the beanbag.

My kids walk right behind me at stores, never leave my sight, and if I tell them to get something, they politely make their way to the item, place it in the cart, and get back in line behind me. If one of them stops for a toy, I spank his ass right there in the store in front of everyone. It serves two purposes:

first, he gets his ass beat for getting out of line

second, he has to walk around sobbing and watching people staring at him because he's crying in public.

His brother sees this and straightens up too, lest he be embarrassed by this.
 
2009-10-22 5:05:40 PM  

hobnail: Lex Kitten: I know a few sets of parents in their 30's who have decided that telling their snowflakes "No" is harmful to them and refuse to do it. Their children are demons. I dread having to be in the same room with them.

/ I know, I know, cool story ho...

For real? Good lord....


Oh yes. The kids act out every waking minute of their lives desperately looking for boundaries. It's awful to watch. One of them used my mom's new white curtains as a napkin to wipe his chocolate cake-y hands and face on while the parents watched and didn't say a word. Or even offer to try to clean them.

On another visit his sister (who was pissy because my mom had the audacity to tell her not to touch some of her nice antique stuff), took a full glass of juice and stood in the center of the room, waited until all eyes were on her and then poured it on the carpet with a self-satisfied shiat eating grin.

Murderous rage doesn't even begin. We were friends with the parents for years but now I can't even bring myself to speak to them.
 
2009-10-22 5:05:42 PM  

meat0918: We call "playpens" "play-yards" now for goodness sake! Because a child young enough to be in one really has his or her feelings hurt at the idea of being placed in a playpen, rather than a play-yard.


I forgot they were called play pens. I was saying baby cage, but the lady at the store just kind of looked at me. I knew play yard didn't sound right, but that is what they are called now.
 
2009-10-22 5:05:56 PM  

gambitsgirl: dhudd:

I generally agree; except for the spanking. A spank that is hard enough to hurt does damage to the muscles. A switch is the way to go (not a belt).

Many's the time my oldest would say "Dad, would you just hit me instead of yelling at me".

The Chinese water torture method of punishment works best - endlessly repeated mantras - at some point they will obey just to not to have to hear them anymore.


Like the other's here, I haven't had to spank them much since they turned 5. My daughter once and my son once a year. I HATE the switch since that's what I got so I won't use it. Now I really am using "taking away privileges" route with a smattering of "take a belt out of the drawer and stare them down" for fun.


I only used the switch once. They were 6 and 3 at the time (boys). We had to take them with us to see a builder; they acted up. I warned them the next time they acted up I would switch them. They acted up again. The oldest was bent over my lap, I didn't have the heart to hit him, so I fairly gently tapped him and he laughed. I switched him pretty smartly. Then the 3 year old got on the lap, I switched him very gently, and he (having seen the older brother's screw up) cried like a stuck pig at the gentle tap. The older brother still cringes when I tell the story.

One's a economist, the others an architect; both are outstanding individuals who could kick my ass when they where 16 (I played basketball in the winter; they wrestled).

I also had both of them Rolfed when they where young, and if you look that up, you will discover why I don't like spanking.
 
2009-10-22 5:07:29 PM  

PumpkinCake: Well I was going to be a social worker until 2 things happened.

1) During my internship my final client had been raped by 13 men set up by her mother, for her 13th birthday (filmed and distributed by the mother). That kind of scarred me.

WTF.

I really could never go into public service or medicine. I can't handle these stories.


You've got to wonder how it went down though. Was it a standard birthday party atmosphere except instead of a cake the table was covered with towels and rope? Did the men take turns conga-line style and keep each other busy while waiting? Was she kept airtight by rotating groups of three (or five if her hands were involved) while the rest sat and watched? Every scenario I can think of seems awkward and inefficient, which makes me think that shooting the film was probably a logistical challenge.
 
2009-10-22 5:07:31 PM  

kxs401: Okay, I don't have kids, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the method of punishment is less important than the mindset when you punish.

For example, it's important that you be calm, that the child understands why they're being punished, and that punishments be consistently applied. It seems like these things matter more than whether the punishment is a spanking, a time-out, or a restriction of privileges.


Close. You should be calm and in control and the punishment needs to be consistent. It is not always necessary that the child understand fully all the reasons for their punishment. For example, a two-year-old can't understand, "Don't snatch toys from my playmate because it makes him cry," but she CAN understand, "When I snatch toys, I get my hand slapped and it hurts." At that age, the ability to understand is limited. Think Pavlov's dogs... Negative stimulus is something to avoid.

All that being said, the punishment must be viewed as a "negative" for that specific child. It must be seen as a bad thing in order to be effective. The psychologists call this a "meaningful consequence". In other words, spanking would be useless with my 11-year-old daughter because it would mean nothing to her. Grounding her from her Nintendo DS or her cell phone, OTOH, would be "meaningful" and therefore effective.

We can use meaningful consequences that are positive as well. We do sticker charts and reward tokens and so forth. But with very immature children, these types of special rewards and/or removal of toys or privileges are not always as meaningful, whereas the application of mild physical discomfort IS meaningful. The punishment does not have to fit the crime; the punishment must fit the CHILD.
 
2009-10-22 5:08:51 PM  
I would like to see a heat map of geographies within the US that are more accepting of spanking- then I would like to cross-reference it with one representing welfare assistance and against the recent voting maps from the presidential election.

Just would be interesting IMO
 
2009-10-22 5:09:19 PM  

dhudd: Rolfed

Rolf theorized that 'bound up' fascia (or connective tissue) often restricts opposing muscles from functioning in concert with one another, much in the way water, having crystallized, forms hard, unyielding ice. Her practice aimed to separate bound up fascia by deeply separating the fibers manually to loosen them and allow effective movement patterns. Rolf believed that an adequate knowledge of living human anatomy and hands-on training were required in order to safely negotiate the appropriate manipulations and depths necessary to free the bound-up fascia



o.O
 
2009-10-22 5:09:20 PM  

Not An Alt: mandingueiro: hey next time you get caught speeding, how about the cop just beats you for a few minutes...you know, like five hits for every mile over the speed limit.

/spankin a child that can comprehend consequences is counter-reproductive.

I wish we could still do that kind of stuff, but you hit one black guy and the world gets pussified. You're a whiny intellectual ass because your daddy never took off his belt and showed you what it means to be punished, so you go through life thinking you're better than everyone cause you've never had beltmarks on your back and legs.

People wonder why we haven't won any wars since nam.


lmao. in all honesty, my dad is VERY oldschool. You're just a closet racist who refuses to accept alternative discipline measures: "hey ya'll lets just beat them blacks to Africa. the South will rise! FREEBIRD"

/you present yourself as a f*ckin idiot.
 
2009-10-22 5:09:37 PM  
Article is worthless, and so are these types of parents who read rags like the NY Times - they are seriously living in fantasy world. These are the types of parents who drink heavily, or are on some serious meds prescribed by their shrink.

But that doesnt apply to people living in the real world.

Raising kids is tough, and it WILL make even the most calm person insane. Yelling and spanking are a part of raising a child, period.
 
2009-10-22 5:09:40 PM  

morgantx: kxs401: Okay, I don't have kids, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the method of punishment is less important than the mindset when you punish.

For example, it's important that you be calm, that the child understands why they're being punished, and that punishments be consistently applied. It seems like these things matter more than whether the punishment is a spanking, a time-out, or a restriction of privileges.

Close. You should be calm and in control and the punishment needs to be consistent. It is not always necessary that the child understand fully all the reasons for their punishment. For example, a two-year-old can't understand, "Don't snatch toys from my playmate because it makes him cry," but she CAN understand, "When I snatch toys, I get my hand slapped and it hurts." At that age, the ability to understand is limited. Think Pavlov's dogs... Negative stimulus is something to avoid.

All that being said, the punishment must be viewed as a "negative" for that specific child. It must be seen as a bad thing in order to be effective. The psychologists call this a "meaningful consequence". In other words, spanking would be useless with my 11-year-old daughter because it would mean nothing to her. Grounding her from her Nintendo DS or her cell phone, OTOH, would be "meaningful" and therefore effective.

We can use meaningful consequences that are positive as well. We do sticker charts and reward tokens and so forth. But with very immature children, these types of special rewards and/or removal of toys or privileges are not always as meaningful, whereas the application of mild physical discomfort IS meaningful. The punishment does not have to fit the crime; the punishment must fit the CHILD.


Right, they need to see the action and the consequence as linked. That makes sense. And I totally understand that different children require different consequences.
 
2009-10-22 5:09:53 PM  

itazurakko: Pxtl: In This Thread: parents explain their parenting techniques and judge all those who use different techniques, because all children are exactly alike.

I will say, even without any kids I've managed to have a laugh or two at a particular neighbor who was blessed with a really calm kid and chalked it all up to what a great mom she was, to the point of really being sanctimonious to other moms - until she had Kid #2 who was just a completely different personality.

Some part of it is just farking random.


I agree. My daughter is a mild mannered 10 year old who gets excellent grades and behaves wonderfully. She respects her elders and rarely steps out of line. At her age, i was already being sent home from school and getting into all sorts of trouble.

I do discipline her, but I rarely have to, because she naturally just wants to do the right thing. So you can't really credit my parenting much.

Neither me or her mother were that way growing up, and hell we still aren't now. So you can't exactly credit genetics either. It really is just random sometimes.

No, I'm not going to have another child, because it will be just like I was as a kid, and I would finally get my repayment. No thanks.
 
2009-10-22 5:10:31 PM  

gambitsgirl: It's 8 or 80 lbs in most places - but the law varies by state.


Damn, didn't know there were laws about that stuff. Shows you what I know. I feel kind of bad for the kid. I can tell he doesn't like that seat. He's a cool shiat, too, and I think that seat is cramping his style. Maybe I'll starting feeding him burgers and cheese and whatnot when his parents aren't looking so he'll beef up to 80lbs quicker.
 
2009-10-22 5:10:43 PM  

pwhp_67: The Mind Boggles: the child's actions and the biatch's reaction


It was the mom that really got me. I told my wife later that this lady had no clue that I was far more irritated with her than I was with her child. She kept making excuses for her kid and I kept trying to tell her she was a shiatty parent. That's how farked up this society is. He's picking on my child! No, no I'm not...


Oh hell no. I would have appreciated you bringing that to my attention had I missed it the first time mine disturbed you. Oh these are the types of people I have dealt with myself. We took my daughter to Callaway Gardens when she was around 2 years old. There was a group of high school students there in the Butterfly House and two of the boys were harassing the ducks by throwing sticks and lighting matches and flinging them into the water. My husband and I told the people working there and here comes one of the boys' mothers who proceeds to scream at me. Not only did security come and throw her and her rotten little crotch fruit out, the police were also called because they had them ON CAMERA damaging the butterfly enclosure and attempting to kill a bird in the aviary. Even with video evidence this mom still DENIED it, saying that it was a big conspiracy against her because we were jealous of her and her son. (WTF???) She was so oblivious and convinced that her kid was 'perfect'.

/It was there and then I decided that I would not raise a serial killer/Paris Hilton.
 
2009-10-22 5:11:03 PM  

Didgeridon't: For the love of FSM, a couple of the schools near me won't even let the teachers use red pens because it could "cause emotional scarring". WTF.


My HVAC instructor said they were trying to take away their red pens too for the same BS reason. When I asked if he was going to go along with it, my ex-Navy (the guy hunted Russian subs, ferfarksake!) instructor just smiled and showed me a whole box of red grease pencils. He doesn't plan on running out any time soon.
 
2009-10-22 5:11:08 PM  

The Mind Boggles: pwhp_67: So I'm at the movies and this girl behind me is kicking my seat. I turn around, glare at her, and hope she gets the message. She doesn't.

So I turn around again and tell her to quit it. She doesn't.

So I tell the mom that her kid is kicking my seat and I'm not happy. She quits for a while then starts up again halfway during the movie.

When the movie is over I turn to the mom and say, "Your kid kicked my seat through the whole movie. That's how you're raising your kid? Good job."

She got mad at me and tells me that "she's just a little kid". I said, "I know. That's why I told you to do something and that's why I'm telling you now. Your kid is a brat."

As she's leaving the theater she yells at me: "She's just a kid!"

Me, "I know. Parent your goddam kid - she's a pain in the ass!"


At some point she decided that because her child is young it's perfectly OK for her to act like an ass. Am I missing something? Was my reaction to "she's just a kid" supposed to have been something like, "Oh! I'm sorry! I will not complain then..."

Had one of my kids done that, I would have forced them to stop, apologize to you and then we would have taken a trip to the bathroom so I could correct their behavior with a talking to and a swat on the bottom. And, I would have paid you for your seat.

/NO excuse for that what so ever
//the child's actions and the biatch's reaction


I'll be at the 7:30 showing of Where the Wild Things Are.
/brunette hair, dark green sweater
//loves me some Whoppers too, please
 
2009-10-22 5:11:16 PM  

morgantx: All that being said, the punishment must be viewed as a "negative" for that specific child. It must be seen as a bad thing in order to be effective. The psychologists call this a "meaningful consequence". In other words, spanking would be useless with my 11-year-old daughter because it would mean nothing to her. Grounding her from her Nintendo DS or her cell phone, OTOH, would be "meaningful" and therefore effective.


Grounding from the computer works wonders with my children. Of course, changing their bed time schedules so the 3 year old goes to bed 30 minutes before the 5 year old changed their behavior almost instantly. Both are better behaved, because they are not keeping each other awake until 11-12 at night.
 
2009-10-22 5:11:27 PM  

morgantx: We spank for four things, and ONLY for four things: Disobedience, Dishonesty, Disrespect, and Defiance (Defiance is a BIG one in our house). We don't tolerate any of those things.


I like your point, but can you explain how disobedience and defiance are two different things?
 
2009-10-22 5:13:26 PM  
We got the wooden spoon a lot. Of course, we were five boys, so I guess you don't really have an option. I remember one time one of my brothers hid the spoon and it was switched with a spatula for a few months. Then it turned up in one of the couch cushions. We all got it for that one. Still not sure who exactly hid it.
 
2009-10-22 5:13:28 PM  

Doctor Funkenstein: gambitsgirl: It's 8 or 80 lbs in most places - but the law varies by state.

Damn, didn't know there were laws about that stuff. Shows you what I know. I feel kind of bad for the kid. I can tell he doesn't like that seat. He's a cool shiat, too, and I think that seat is cramping his style. Maybe I'll starting feeding him burgers and cheese and whatnot when his parents aren't looking so he'll beef up to 80lbs quicker.



This is by state. It says whether it's by height or weight and if it's "car seat" or "booster" (your friend's kid was in a booster it sounds like). You may have to make him fat or you may have to stretch him on the rack. (some states are 5 some are up to 8)

Link (new window)
 
2009-10-22 5:14:27 PM  
IF WE DONT START BEATING OUR KIDS ITS GONNA BE A SCARY PLACE
 
2009-10-22 5:14:37 PM  

spacechicken170am:

You wouldn't have survived an hour without yelling at me and my twin brother. He had ADHD and I loved to take things apart. Besides, if mom never yelled then my brother never would have heard her from all the way up on the roof.


welcome to my favorites list.

I do try not to yell when I'm going to appear like an unrestrained moron (which accomplishes nothing but makes your kids lose respect for you and/or wonder whether you're going to be in a good mood or bad mood...I grew up with this. it sucks.), but I do yell when my 6 year old does something entirely stupid. If he's just plain not listening or breaking rules, there are other consequences - toys go away for so long that he forgets they even exist, privileges go away for so long that he misses them and changes his behavior.

Time outs work for my 2 year old...he puts himself in time out when he's about to throw a massive tantrum now. When he's ready, he comes out on his own. Works wonders.
 
2009-10-22 5:15:00 PM  

Not An Alt: Parents should be able to discipline their children in whatever fashion they see fit. I mean, granted, don't punch your kid in the face or anything, but a good lashing keeps them in line. With my kids, i'm not afraid to pull the belt off or hit them across the back with a hickory stick, but they sure as hell aren't pitching a fit in wal-mart while I'm trying to shop.

This is what's wrong w/ the world, this is why we have rotten children running around. Give them one week at my house and I'll break them from that, I guarantee it.


Thank you.
Newsletter, etc.
 
2009-10-22 5:15:20 PM  

Doctor Funkenstein: Somewhat on subject but it threw me for a loop and I'll come clean right at the outset - I do not have children so I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to parenting. That said, a friend of mine has a 5 year old. Awhile back, I was at his place just visiting briefly. He was going to go out to the grocery store or something like that. He put the kid in the back seat of his car...in a child seat that was fastened in with the seatbelt. Am I off base on that or is that normal? 5 seems a little old to be in a child seat in the car to me. I think when I was 5 I was riding shotgun with no seatbelt. I don't know...maybe my parents were just monsters or something and I never knew it. Either way, that was the early 1980s and people hadn't started to give a shiat about stuff like that yet.


I think at that age they are supposed to be in a booster seat as opposed to a car seat. The booster seat, I think, is just supposed to position the kid so that the seat belt fits right.
 
2009-10-22 5:15:28 PM  

wage0048: morgantx: We spank for four things, and ONLY for four things: Disobedience, Dishonesty, Disrespect, and Defiance (Defiance is a BIG one in our house). We don't tolerate any of those things.

I like your point, but can you explain how disobedience and defiance are two different things?


Really, defiance is just disobedience coupled with disrespect. For example, if I ask a child to take his shoes to his closet and he ignores my request, he is being disobedient (provided that I know he's heard me). If I ask a child to take his shoes to his room and he takes his shoes but mutters under his breath something like, "I wish she'd just shut up and leave me alone," (never happened with my younger ones, just my pre-teen daughter!), that's disrespect. If I ask him to take his shoes and he says, "Do it yourself!" that's defiance.
 
2009-10-22 5:17:46 PM  

xkranda: Time outs work for my 2 year old...he puts himself in time out when he's about to throw a massive tantrum now. When he's ready, he comes out on his own. Works wonders.


My 3 year old will sometimes start to tantrum, then go to his room and lie down for a nap. No prompting by me or my wife. Although, sometimes we are about to go somewhere and he does this, which means a more massive tantrum until he falls asleep in his car seat.
 
2009-10-22 5:17:47 PM  

SHOGUNTHEASSASSIN: IF WE DONT START BEATING OUR KIDS ITS GONNA BE A SCARY PLACE


WHAT DO YOU MEAN *GONNA BE*?!
 
2009-10-22 5:18:01 PM  
Mammals in nature discipline like this everywhere. Watch a lion raise her cubs. She'll play with them and teach them to hunt and survive, but if they do something that isn't right she will snip and yell at them. It's feedback that your doing something wrong to ALL your senses as a kid and it sticks with you the rest of your life. It's only humans that try to justify the politically correct bs. I've seen far too much how kids turn out whose parents were more 'their friends' than parents. In fact I'm filming one of my best friends right now. He's homeless and addicted to crack and his dad still is too calm with him. amazing.
 
2009-10-22 5:18:03 PM  

damageddude: You obviously have never had children.


You know it's going to be a great thread when the breeders start in with this shiat before it even goes green.
 
2009-10-22 5:18:29 PM  

gambitsgirl: This is by state. It says whether it's by height or weight and if it's "car seat" or "booster" (your friend's kid was in a booster it sounds like). You may have to make him fat or you may have to stretch him on the rack. (some states are 5 some are up to 8)

Link (new window)


Yup. I guess it was a booster thing. Your chart says they need to be in one until they're 8 in my state. Huh - I learned something today...and they said it couldn't happen.
 
2009-10-22 5:18:30 PM  
Trappedspirit:
Who knows. Maybe the generational gap thing. My mom suddenly had completely different ideas about discipline when it came to babysitting my sister's children. Of course she was already past that 40 mark, but it was quite strange seeing her interact with children without grabbing a belt or coat hanger.

I think it is a combination of patience along with having learned from my mistakes. It feels allot better not always having to respond to a situation in anger.

I also wonder how many of those in this thread that insist that spanking is necessary in raising children beat their dog when training them, because everybody knows how much better a beaten dog is over one who was trained with a little love and a reward system.
 
2009-10-22 5:19:48 PM  

Doctor Funkenstein: Somewhat on subject but it threw me for a loop and I'll come clean right at the outset - I do not have children so I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to parenting. That said, a friend of mine has a 5 year old. Awhile back, I was at his place just visiting briefly. He was going to go out to the grocery store or something like that. He put the kid in the back seat of his car...in a child seat that was fastened in with the seatbelt. Am I off base on that or is that normal? 5 seems a little old to be in a child seat in the car to me. I think when I was 5 I was riding shotgun with no seatbelt. I don't know...maybe my parents were just monsters or something and I never knew it. Either way, that was the early 1980s and people hadn't started to give a shiat about stuff like that yet.


They passed a law in my state a while back that you have to be something like 80 pounds, 4'11, or 11 (whichever came first) to not ride in some sort of child restraining seat.

/can't remember the exact figures but something like that
 
2009-10-22 5:20:01 PM  
I doubt I have exceptional kids but I've never stuck my 6 & 8 yr olds. That would be sooo lame. I don't tolerate disrespectful behavior so I have also stopped yelling at them. Just discipline them the same if you are alone or in public. You wouldn't hit or yell at your friend's kids and you wouldn't let anyone hit or yell at yours. You have to outsmart your own kids otherwise you're doing it wrong.
 
2009-10-22 5:21:24 PM  

Hobo Orgy: We got the wooden spoon a lot. Of course, we were five boys, so I guess you don't really have an option. I remember one time one of my brothers hid the spoon and it was switched with a spatula for a few months. Then it turned up in one of the couch cushions. We all got it for that one. Still not sure who exactly hid it.


My grandmother would use a wooden spoon on my cousins (I for some reason, was the smart one who learned from my cousins' pain). One day, my oldest cousin decided to hide the spoon.

Grandma just went out to Grandpa's shop and came back in with a welding rod (18" long, 1/8" thick piece of steel) and set it on the counter where the spoon usually sat. The spoon was returned very quickly.

morgantx: Really, defiance is just disobedience coupled with disrespect. For example, if I ask a child to take his shoes to his closet and he ignores my request, he is being disobedient (provided that I know he's heard me). If I ask a child to take his shoes to his room and he takes his shoes but mutters under his breath something like, "I wish she'd just shut up and leave me alone," (never happened with my younger ones, just my pre-teen daughter!), that's disrespect. If I ask him to take his shoes and he says, "Do it yourself!" that's defiance.


Okay, that makes sense.
 
2009-10-22 5:22:42 PM  

wmoonfox: damageddude: You obviously have never had children.

You know it's going to be a great thread when the breeders start in with this shiat before it even goes green.


I got carded last night at the grocery store (I'm 37) and the gal said, "You've aged really well. I have friends your age and they don't look half as good." I told her my secret was not having kids. She thought about it, admitted all her friends had at least 2 and had to agree.
 
2009-10-22 5:24:03 PM  

morgantx: We spank for four things, and ONLY for four things: Disobedience, Dishonesty, Disrespect, and Defiance (Defiance is a BIG one in our house). We don't tolerate any of those things.


Yes, kids are smart. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out in 7-8 years.
 
2009-10-22 5:24:07 PM  

kxs401: For example, it's important that you be calm, that the child understands why they're being punished, and that punishments be consistently applied. It seems like these things matter more than whether the punishment is a spanking, a time-out, or a restriction of privileges.


It still inspires me to this day every time I remember that calm, understanding look in my father's eyes when he would slowly put the cigarette out on my arm.
 
2009-10-22 5:24:09 PM  

Devil's Playground: Trappedspirit:
Who knows. Maybe the generational gap thing. My mom suddenly had completely different ideas about discipline when it came to babysitting my sister's children. Of course she was already past that 40 mark, but it was quite strange seeing her interact with children without grabbing a belt or coat hanger.

I think it is a combination of patience along with having learned from my mistakes. It feels allot better not always having to respond to a situation in anger.

I also wonder how many of those in this thread that insist that spanking is necessary in raising children beat their dog when training them, because everybody knows how much better a beaten dog is over one who was trained with a little love and a reward system.


The simple answer to this is kids are not dogs. Dogs have a switch in their heads - one is submit, one is dominate. That's all they do. Kids, on the other hand, have human thinking ability at a very early age.

That said, a shock collar is very effective but I wouldn't use one of those on a child. My dog has one on her 24x7 - she has an acre and a half inside an invisible fence; if she gets within a foot she get's zapped. The neighbors are very relieved as she is a labrador who had fallen in love with their kids.

And on the yelling thing - I was a child prodigy opera singer and the yelling was quite creative.
 
2009-10-22 5:24:47 PM  

mandingueiro: lmao. in all honesty, my dad is VERY oldschool. You're just a closet racist who refuses to accept alternative discipline measures: "hey ya'll lets just beat them blacks to Africa. the South will rise! FREEBIRD"

/you present yourself as a f*ckin idiot.


Well, he probably didn't spank you as much because he knew he was turning you into a pansy ass liberal. It's people like you, who try to turn away from good old fashioned child raising that get older, join the army, and come home with bullshiat PTSD. Most of the soldiers in WWI and WWII got spanked, they knew what was right, and they weren't afraid to deal with a little discomfort in order to come out a better person. Nowadays people can just piss and moan about how horrible things are and quit what they're doing, knowing that there are people like you that will tell them 'it's okay.'

If my oldest ever said anything to me like you just said, i'd slap him right across his face and still sleep like a baby.
 
2009-10-22 5:24:58 PM  
This has been or probably will be said a million times on here. Kids are not completely rationally beings. It's part of growing up. I'm all for being rational to kids, and explaining why they shouldn't do things, but that only goes so far. In my opinion, and I know I'm not alone, but there has to be a healthy fear of consequences from your parents. Learning the consequences of your actions is part of growing up as well.

If I have kids, I probably will spank them, but it would be rare. I can remember being spanked once by my father, and it was because I screamed at my mom when I was nine.

As I heard him yell my name and come up the stairs, I almost shiat myself in antipication. I think it was maybe 5-10 hard swats on the bum, closer to 5 than ten.

That was the last time I disrespected my parents intentionally.

Now having said that, there is obviously more than one model on how to raise your kids.

As far as I'm concerned, the majority of the kids in today's society are good kids, just like every other generation. It's always the minority that makes the majority look bad.

Being a kid in today's society is hard, as is being a parent. Just like every other generation. Although I'm not a parent yet, it doesn't take much thinking to realize we all have to work together to ensure our future is a good one.

Teach them your basic values, and be reasonable about it, 98 percent of the time you'll have well adjusted kids.
 
2009-10-22 5:25:48 PM  

This thread is GWB without pics: I doubt I have exceptional kids but I've never stuck my 6 & 8 yr olds. That would be sooo lame. I don't tolerate disrespectful behavior so I have also stopped yelling at them. Just discipline them the same if you are alone or in public. You wouldn't hit or yell at your friend's kids and you wouldn't let anyone hit or yell at yours. You have to outsmart your own kids otherwise you're doing it wrong.


My friends / family with kids all have the same agreement: If you see my child misbehaving anywhere at any time for any reason, you may yell at them, drag them out, or even spank them publicly if they deserve it. All the kids know this. They don't risk misbehaving anywhere because there are a lot of friends and family out there who just might be wandering by. Not only will the kid hear about misbehavior right there from the witness, but witness will ring mom and dad who will be waiting, calm, and ready when the kid gets home.

It doesn't take a village to raise a child, but sometimes it helps.
 
2009-10-22 5:26:17 PM  
http://tinyurl.com/whythefarkdoyouhaveakid


yes part of the url is fark do not change it to the u version of the word.

Fark won't let me link to this site even through tinyurl because the actual site has the f word in it, so you have to cut and paste, trust me though, it's worth it.
 
2009-10-22 5:26:31 PM  

dragonchild: morgantx: We spank for four things, and ONLY for four things: Disobedience, Dishonesty, Disrespect, and Defiance (Defiance is a BIG one in our house). We don't tolerate any of those things.

Yes, kids are smart. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out in 7-8 years.


I don't plan on continuing to spank in 7-8 years. As children age, physical punishment becomes less "meaningful" to them and should be replaced with consequences that ARE meaningful to them.
 
2009-10-22 5:26:47 PM  

wage0048: My grandmother would use a wooden spoon on my cousins (I for some reason, was the smart one who learned from my cousins' pain). One day, my oldest cousin decided to hide the spoon.

Grandma just went out to Grandpa's shop and came back in with a welding rod (18" long, 1/8" thick piece of steel) and set it on the counter where the spoon usually sat. The spoon was returned very quickly.


Yeah, that's exactly what came to mind. Spatula? I might've replaced with it a chainsaw just to fark with 'em.

/not really, but yeah, welding rod was the way to go
 
2009-10-22 5:27:52 PM  

trappedspirit: It still inspires me to this day every time I remember that calm, understanding look in my father's eyes when he would slowly put the cigarette out on my arm.


I only once ever got a cigarette put out on my arm, and I still have a little, round scar. Then again, it was because the old fool fell asleep and I happened to be sitting next to him on the couch.

\Better my arm than burning the house down, I guess.
\\Grandma heard me yell and spent the next fifteen minutes screaming at him.
 
2009-10-22 5:28:48 PM  

dhudd: The simple answer to this is kids are not dogs. Dogs have a switch in their heads - one is submit, one is dominate. That's all they do. Kids, on the other hand, have human thinking ability at a very early age.


But no matter how smart, they ALL understand submit and dominate. My kids know that I run the household and if they ever need a reminder, i put their little asses in place. They think I hate them, and sometimes I do, but I guarantee that once they're on their own they'll act right.

It's just like training a horse, at first, they're going to be wild and full of free will. The free will they have is dangerous, as they don't understand the dangers of their behavior or the affect it has on people around them. You break that will, you've got something you can shape in your image, period.
 
2009-10-22 5:29:07 PM  
I'm 26 and still fear my mother. She came to visit me last year and yelled at me when I said "Jesus Christ" (used my middle name and everything). Even now when I visit my parents, I only watch the "safe" tv shows.

To this day I don't have wooden spoons in my kitchen. *shudder*
 
2009-10-22 5:29:44 PM  
There is no one size fits all way of disciplining children, you have to take everything in to consideration then decide the best course of action. I will and have spanked, not the best method but it has results. But I've found that throwing away toys works the best. You threaten and if they don't shape up you throw it away (which can be difficult at times but you must). Nowadays all I have to do is threaten to throw something away and they snap right in line.
 
2009-10-22 5:29:44 PM  

Doctor Funkenstein: Somewhat on subject but it threw me for a loop and I'll come clean right at the outset - I do not have children so I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to parenting. That said, a friend of mine has a 5 year old. Awhile back, I was at his place just visiting briefly. He was going to go out to the grocery store or something like that. He put the kid in the back seat of his car...in a child seat that was fastened in with the seatbelt. Am I off base on that or is that normal? 5 seems a little old to be in a child seat in the car to me. I think when I was 5 I was riding shotgun with no seatbelt. I don't know...maybe my parents were just monsters or something and I never knew it. Either way, that was the early 1980s and people hadn't started to give a shiat about stuff like that yet.


In the state of GA, kids MUST be in a booster seat until they reach 80 lbs and cannot ride in the front seat until they are at least 100 lbs AND 12 years old. Fines here start at $500.
 
2009-10-22 5:30:47 PM  

Not An Alt: mandingueiro: lmao. in all honesty, my dad is VERY oldschool. You're just a closet racist who refuses to accept alternative discipline measures: "hey ya'll lets just beat them blacks to Africa. the South will rise! FREEBIRD"

/you present yourself as a f*ckin idiot.

Well, he probably didn't spank you as much because he knew he was turning you into a pansy ass liberal. It's people like you, who try to turn away from good old fashioned child raising that get older, join the army, and come home with bullshiat PTSD. Most of the soldiers in WWI and WWII got spanked, they knew what was right, and they weren't afraid to deal with a little discomfort in order to come out a better person. Nowadays people can just piss and moan about how horrible things are and quit what they're doing, knowing that there are people like you that will tell them 'it's okay.'

If my oldest ever said anything to me like you just said, i'd slap him right across his face and still sleep like a baby.


Coming from someone who is clearly malformed intellectually I suspect some day you oldest is going to stab you in the back with a kitchen knife. Or, at least one can hope. . .
 
2009-10-22 5:31:15 PM  

dragonchild: wage0048: My grandmother would use a wooden spoon on my cousins (I for some reason, was the smart one who learned from my cousins' pain). One day, my oldest cousin decided to hide the spoon.

Grandma just went out to Grandpa's shop and came back in with a welding rod (18" long, 1/8" thick piece of steel) and set it on the counter where the spoon usually sat. The spoon was returned very quickly.

Yeah, that's exactly what came to mind. Spatula? I might've replaced with it a chainsaw just to fark with 'em.

/not really, but yeah, welding rod was the way to go


I think it was a spatula, but then again, I have a crappy memory. But not a shiatty plastic one. One of the really heavy, old metal ones. Definitely didn't do the damage the spoon did, but I think it was all they could find that wouldn't actually kill us.
 
2009-10-22 5:31:54 PM  
when i got too old to spank, my dad would take his index finger and poke me in the arm next to the tricep.....holy shiat.....i wished for the good ol' days.
 
2009-10-22 5:31:55 PM  

Thorak: That's all I was talking about, with raised voices. If they're listening to you, and you're still yelling, you're doing it out of anger, and doing it out of anger means you're out of control. I take this stance, though, because some people think ANY raising of your voice is "bad", even a quick "Hey!" to pierce through their screaming and get them to listen to you for a second.


If that's all you were talking about, with raised voices, then why did you even respond to my post? I never mentioned a thing about raised voices, I was only talking about yelling and screaming, and you seem to acknowledge and agree that there's a difference.

Thorak: 1> They were a twit, in my opinion.
2> If Fark didn't do it automatically, it wouldn't have been filtered. Vulgarities have been a critical part of English since before English was English, and I refuse to artificially limit my vocabulary, thus limiting my ability to succinctly express myself, because someone might be offended, when we're supposedly all reasonably adult people here.
3> I go drinking with my buddies, but that doesn't mean I'll buy a toddler a beer. Almost everyone is capable of modulating behaviour based on their surroundings. I'm a teacher, and if I dropped a "fark" in a grade 5 classroom, I'd probably be having a chat with the principal about my conduct. If it were grade 7 and we were talking about Catcher in the Rye, it would be fine.

Feel free to attack my actual argument rather than the style of my posts, though. For someone who's going to harp on my analogies being a bit exaggerated, that's awfully close to being outright fallacious in your own argument.


I understand that people modulate their behavior based on their surroundings, but that doesn't get past the fact that you seem to think that acceptable behavior in this surrounding is to respond to someone you've never talked to before with a bare insult, swear to them, and engage in hyperbole, all in response to something that you and I both seem to agree wasn't even at issue in the original post. I think that's a fine supplement to my argument because if you think that is good decorum in this situation, then it stands to reason your sense of decorum in other situations, such as parenting, may be off as well.

Also, you see a lot of people on Fark say "feel free to attack my actual argument" in response to people who devote a fair amount of time attacking their actual argument, but its a special kind of silliness when a person spends a whole paragraph responding to an attack on their original argument, only to finish their post by saying that. In one breath you explicitly acknowledge the attack, and in the next you pretend it doesn't exist.
 
2009-10-22 5:32:32 PM  

dhudd: Coming from someone who is clearly malformed intellectually I suspect some day you oldest is going to stab you in the back with a kitchen knife. Or, at least one can hope. . .


He can try to come at me all he wants, and I welcome any challenge. I'll knock his dick in the dirt until he's finally enough of a man to take me. Once that happens, he's ready to be a father.
 
2009-10-22 5:33:15 PM  

PumpUpDaFark: Gamer Grrrl: Shostie: TFA : We congratulate our toddlers for blowing their nose ("Good job!")

Jesus, man. If my toddler suddenly figured out how to blow her nose I'd throw a parade. It'd be one less thing I would have to help her with.

The less I have to touch toddler snot, the better.

/I don't thave any kids, but I can see why you'd want your 3-year-old to blow her own nose.

OMFG!!! TODDLER SNOT!!!


good band name!
 
2009-10-22 5:33:16 PM  

unicron702: detfrost1: I'm not going to read this article I just want to say this:

Parents: PLEASE SPANK YOUR KIDS when absolutely necessary, but do not punch, kick, choke, backhand, gouge, rape, slash, stab, shoot, poison, bludgeon or in anyway actually physically abuse your kids. A hickory switch, or a belt to the bottom for severe infractions will not cause permanent damage (note, that doesn't mean you can beat their ass until you break their farking tail bone, they bleed, use a 2x4, or have massive deep bruising as this will only desensitize them and make spanking less effective anyway).

Remember physical punishment is to teach them a lesson, not to give you revenge.

PARENTS PLEASE YELL AT YOUR CHILDREN (often): However, do not call them derogatory names (i.e. fa-got, pussy, etc) or in other ways emotionally abuse them, because it WILL come back to bite you in the ass, somehow, someway.

Thank you.
Much Love,
The rest of the world.

Or the 34 students at your sons college, 10 people on his subway train, that kind of thing.


It was 32, not 34. Personally, I call it 33.
 
2009-10-22 5:33:27 PM  

farkinawsome: when i got too old to spank, my dad would take his index finger and poke me in the arm next to the tricep.....holy shiat.....i wished for the good ol' days.


Did he threaten to poke a hole right through you?
 
2009-10-22 5:33:39 PM  

Not An Alt: Most of the soldiers in WWI and WWII got spanked


I remember the battle for Spankburger hill, it was horrible. Red asses everywhere.

but then we rode the roller coaster and it was all cool
 
2009-10-22 5:34:03 PM  

Not An Alt: dhudd: Coming from someone who is clearly malformed intellectually I suspect some day you oldest is going to stab you in the back with a kitchen knife. Or, at least one can hope. . .

He can try to come at me all he wants, and I welcome any challenge. I'll knock his dick in the dirt until he's finally enough of a man to take me. Once that happens, he's ready to be a father.


This made me laugh my ass off. Thanks, dude. You've done some fine work these past 2 days.
 
2009-10-22 5:35:00 PM  

Hobo Orgy: This made me laugh my ass off. Thanks, dude. You've done some fine work these past 2 days.


I subscribe to the Sith parenting manual, there will always be two, a master and apprentice. Once the apprentice becomes the master, he must find an apprentice.
 
2009-10-22 5:35:30 PM  
I used to spank. I like to think I got better at parenting and don't need to anymore.

I used to yell far more frequently than I do now. I have found that the less I do it the more effective it is. The converse is also true of course.

You should listen to me because I am the best daddy in the world, and my kids are awsome.
 
2009-10-22 5:35:46 PM  

bhcompy: 12349876: Dr.Knockboots: most of the US seems to be full of adjusted normal people.

you must have never met a FOX News watcherDailyKos reader.

Meh.. too easy really. Different doesn't mean they aren't "normally adjusted".


I can see why you added the Kos fans but can't understand why you crossed out the Fox viewers... oh well using Fark's autoquote scripts will correct it automatically for all of us.
 
2009-10-22 5:36:37 PM  

Hobo Orgy: Not An Alt: dhudd: Coming from someone who is clearly malformed intellectually I suspect some day you oldest is going to stab you in the back with a kitchen knife. Or, at least one can hope. . .

He can try to come at me all he wants, and I welcome any challenge. I'll knock his dick in the dirt until he's finally enough of a man to take me. Once that happens, he's ready to be a father.

This made me laugh my ass off. Thanks, dude. You've done some fine work these past 2 days.


It will come in his sleep; when the kid is 16. He won't see it coming. I've seen assholes like this get their reward from their kids in the end. Also, this guy is a first class panty-waist. You can tell by the way he walks.
 
2009-10-22 5:36:44 PM  

Not An Alt: mandingueiro: lmao. in all honesty, my dad is VERY oldschool. You're just a closet racist who refuses to accept alternative discipline measures: "hey ya'll lets just beat them blacks to Africa. the South will rise! FREEBIRD"

/you present yourself as a f*ckin idiot.

Well, he probably didn't spank you as much because he knew he was turning you into a pansy ass liberal. It's people like you, who try to turn away from good old fashioned child raising that get older, join the army, and come home with bullshiat PTSD. Most of the soldiers in WWI and WWII got spanked, they knew what was right, and they weren't afraid to deal with a little discomfort in order to come out a better person. Nowadays people can just piss and moan about how horrible things are and quit what they're doing, knowing that there are people like you that will tell them 'it's okay.'

If my oldest ever said anything to me like you just said, i'd slap him right across his face and still sleep like a baby.


actually, im a USMC veteran: i was a Combat Engineer. the motto in the Marine Corps is to "work smarter, not harder". and that can apply to all sections of life. But hey, you are stuck on archaic ideology, you're more than welcomed to it while the world moves forward. idiot.
 
2009-10-22 5:36:54 PM  

whoviantrekkie: OlafTheBent: Ennuipoet: Not a big fan of the little ones.

I've never laughed as hard at a dinner table as I do with the wife and kids now.

/They're funny as Hell

Children are a life ruining experience that will mess up your careers and social life forever. I fail to understand why people want to have them...


Then it's probably best if you don't procreate. . .
 
2009-10-22 5:37:31 PM  
I spank. I threaten. I count to 5. I "naughty spot".

I don't yell, though. NO YELLING is the #1 rule in this house.

/happy caps lock day
 
2009-10-22 5:38:34 PM  

Toots McGee: Can somebody explain to me, just what the fark was wrong about how we were disciplined that today's parents think it needs to be so dramatically altered?


You're kidding right? Take a look around.
 
2009-10-22 5:39:00 PM  
Meh, I"m not sure I buy the idea that parents today can't/don't/won't discipline their kids the way they could 'back in the day'. It has too much of an "uphill both ways" vibe to really be accurate.

It's not like people in the 50s weren't occasionally called out for extreme behavior toward their children.
 
2009-10-22 5:39:07 PM  
Shame needs to be brought back into discipline. Really. If a child is misbehaving in public - even if the child is 'special needs' that reflects badly on the parents, siblings, and even their little friends. One thing I learned never to do as a kid was embarrass my parents. If you disrespect yourself, you disrespect the people around you and everything they are working to achieve. It makes the kids realize that they are not and never will be the center of the world and to think beyond themselves to what affects their behavior may have on others.

You can always tell when a parent has no shame and it shows in their child's behavior.
 
2009-10-22 5:40:07 PM  

morgantx: I don't plan on continuing to spank in 7-8 years. As children age, physical punishment becomes less "meaningful" to them and should be replaced with consequences that ARE meaningful to them.


That's not the issue; it's that this is all about "consequences" = "discipline". As you say, kids are smart. They will remember if you were ever a hypocrite, a liar, or merely abused your authority to get them to behave (treating them like nuisances). Even if you believe you were fair, if an incident goes unexplained and you've run the house with such an iron fist that any "defiance" or "disrespect" gets them more punishment, they will learn to bury the resentment where it will fester for years. I'm still bitter about disagreements my parents ended simply by asserting authority in middle school. When kids realize something's not fair, they won't forget it. You will become "the enemy" and they will wait for their chance for what they think will be salvation: namely, during adolescence when they stop listening to you and look up to all the wrong people who will accurately describe you as a parent that does nothing but shout orders. That's the impression I'm getting, but I hope that's not the case.
 
2009-10-22 5:42:20 PM  

ronaprhys: Spare the rod and spoil the child.

It's right there in the Good Book and these liberals just can't stand knowing that God gave them the right instructions already, so they've got to keep defying His Word in whatever way they can.

America, I pray for you.


although I too am Christian, or religious, whatever, and I don't know you, this strikes me as "I'm better than you because I believe in god." this just in...you aren't. Neither am I.


And if this isn't you, because, like I've said, we've never met, I apologize. But it's alot of people's "Holier than thou" attitude that gives religion a bad name. We are all equal regardless of our beliefs.
 
2009-10-22 5:44:50 PM  
If you hit your kid, you raise a kid who hits.
If you scream at your kid, you raise a kid who screams.
If you talk to your kid calmly, you raise a kid who talks calmly.

Your call.
 
2009-10-22 5:45:30 PM  

Not An Alt: They think I hate them, and sometimes I do, but I guarantee that once they're on their own they'll act right.


Not necessarily. They also have to understand why you disallowed this or that. Otherwise, all that pent-up free will will go berserk in their twenties and they could self-destruct quickly. YMMV.
 
2009-10-22 5:45:30 PM  

Pocket Ninja: I would never yell at you, subby. I love you too much to yell at you. You mean the world to me. You are my world. That's why you've disappointed me so much just now, do you understand? Can you understand my point? I love you so much and want to do what I can for you, but you've disappointed me so much and I'm really wondering if maybe I've made a mistake even deciding to have you as a part of my life. Sometimes you just make me think that maybe I can't keep you around, that maybe you're just never going to be even half as good as I hoped you would be. And it's not fair for me to constantly expect good things from you when I know you can't deliver them. I don't want to be unfair to you. I love you to much to be that unfair. If you love something, you have to let it go sometimes. You know? Maybe you just need to be around people who will be satisfied with you not being good enough. I just don't think I can be that person. I'm not strong enough. It's me, not you. I don't have what it takes to support your failure. But I tell you what. Let's just take a breather now, an hour or so. We'll come back and talk about this later.


Damn. You are spot on.
 
2009-10-22 5:46:18 PM  

UncleStumpy: ronaprhys: Spare the rod and spoil the child.

It's right there in the Good Book and these liberals just can't stand knowing that God gave them the right instructions already, so they've got to keep defying His Word in whatever way they can.

America, I pray for you.

although I too am Christian, or religious, whatever, and I don't know you, this strikes me as "I'm better than you because I believe in god." this just in...you aren't. Neither am I.

And if this isn't you, because, like I've said, we've never met, I apologize. But it's alot of people's "Holier than thou" attitude that gives religion a bad name. We are all equal regardless of our beliefs.


As the Discordians say, "No two equals are ever the same."
 
2009-10-22 5:46:25 PM  

Not An Alt: You break that will, you've got something you can shape in your image, period.


Either that or they just start miming the motions without any true respect as they count the days until they turn 18, leave, and never call.
 
2009-10-22 5:47:44 PM  

Hebalo: If you hit your kid, you raise a kid who hits.
If you scream at your kid, you raise a kid who screams.
If you talk to your kid calmly, you raise a kid who talks calmly.

Your call.


Obviously you are retarded - at least that's my call. I yelled at my kids many times - they are the most reserved people I know; I don't think I've ever heard them yell. They know when they're second rate and don't try to compete.

If anything, my yelling made them not want to yell (of course, neither of them have my amazing voice (God didn't give me this voice to be quiet).
 
2009-10-22 5:48:32 PM  

Not An Alt: I subscribe to the Sith parenting manual, there will always be two, a master and apprentice. Once the apprentice becomes the master, he must find an apprentice.


I was thinking the Ezzos with a touch of Dobson, but that's close I guess...!
 
2009-10-22 5:48:51 PM  

BobNesta420: FTA: "If someone yelled at you at work, you'd find that pretty jarring. We don't apply that standard to children."

Well, sure. But I also don't crap in my pants and then reach in, so I can use my shiat as finger paint for the office walls. If I did, then I think a little yelling may be warranted.


......Dad?
 
2009-10-22 5:50:50 PM  

Hebalo: If you hit your kid, you raise a kid who hits.
If you scream at your kid, you raise a kid who screams.
If you talk to your kid calmly, you raise a kid who talks calmly.


Not necessarily, not necessarily and not necessarily.

In my experience, the biggest difference is whether or not the kids understand in the end. Authority without question and no authority at all get equally bad results. My parents weren't big on explaining themselves, but they did put pressure on us to get smart, which allowed us to figure it out on our own.
 
2009-10-22 5:50:51 PM  
And day two of the great FARK fishing contest goes to......... Drum Roll ...........
Not An Alt
mauisportfishingcharters.comView Full Size


Good Job.
 
2009-10-22 5:51:52 PM  

Nuuu: If that's all you were talking about, with raised voices, then why did you even respond to my post? I never mentioned a thing about raised voices, I was only talking about yelling and screaming, and you seem to acknowledge and agree that there's a difference.


There CAN be a difference. Many people seem to have the same problem distinguishing between the two as they do telling the difference between spanking and beating.

Nuuu: I understand that people modulate their behavior based on their surroundings, but that doesn't get past the fact that you seem to think that acceptable behavior in this surrounding is to respond to someone you've never talked to before with a bare insult, swear to them, and engage in hyperbole, all in response to something that you and I both seem to agree wasn't even at issue in the original post. I think that's a fine supplement to my argument because if you think that is good decorum in this situation, then it stands to reason your sense of decorum in other situations, such as parenting, may be off as well.


You are aware you're on Fark and not posting in the minutes for a company meeting, right?

My sense of "decorum" includes the fact that I'm posting relatively anonymously to a mostly silly Internet newsboard. I'm pretty damn tame compared to a lot of Farkers.

Also, I take personal and direct offense to your criticism of my use of a swear word. fark, in its unfiltered form, has been part of the English language for over 500 years. shiat has been in English since before English was English; it comes from Old Norse straight into Old English, straight through. Sorry, but it's censorship, and I find it offensive in any form.

I may have stepped over the line when I called you a twit, and I apologize for that.


Also, you see a lot of people on Fark say "feel free to attack my actual argument" in response to people who devote a fair amount of time attacking their actual argument, but its a special kind of silliness when a person spends a whole paragraph responding to an attack on their original argument, only to finish their post by saying that. In one breath you explicitly acknowledge the attack, and in the next you pretend it doesn't exist.

You've yet to attack my argument.

To be clear, my argument is that raising one's voice and occasionally spanking a child is in no way harmful to the child and quite possibly of great benefit.

You've complained that I insulted you, swore, claimed I used hyperbole, and suggested I am terrible around children. That's all style issues, wrapped around to direct an insult at me. Which apparently I was wrong to do to you. Is it because I came right out and said it? Should I have tried to work my way around to implying it, instead, like you passive-aggressively did?

Also, hyperbole is deliberate exaggeration for effect. There's nothing wrong with it unless you confuse the hyperbole for a claim of equality. To boot, what I did was engage in analogy, which thrives on the differences between the two cases, so that where they are similar is clear. And comparing anti-verbal/corporal punishment types with pacifists on a broader scale is not exactly a big leap, to begin with.


To sum up; Welcome to the Internet. We're all assholes here. Even you.
 
2009-10-22 5:54:18 PM  

dhudd: Hebalo: If you hit your kid, you raise a kid who hits.
If you scream at your kid, you raise a kid who screams.
If you talk to your kid calmly, you raise a kid who talks calmly.

Your call.

Obviously you are retarded - at least that's my call.


Wow, that was pretty mature. I guess we know what kind of kids you're raising. Do you not get it? You're the role model. What you do is right, that's what they learn.
 
2009-10-22 5:54:57 PM  

dhudd: Hebalo: If you hit your kid, you raise a kid who hits.
If you scream at your kid, you raise a kid who screams.
If you talk to your kid calmly, you raise a kid who talks calmly.

Your call.

Obviously you are retarded - at least that's my call. I yelled at my kids many times - they are the most reserved people I know; I don't think I've ever heard them yell. They know when they're second rate and don't try to compete.

If anything, my yelling made them not want to yell (of course, neither of them have my amazing voice (God didn't give me this voice to be quiet).


None of what you said sounded pithy but trite. FAIL
 
2009-10-22 5:55:14 PM  
winegirlonline.comView Full Size
 
2009-10-22 5:55:22 PM  

Blink: I'm a parenting snob. I believe my children are my responsibility -- and if they at any time negatively affecting other adults in a public place, I owe that adult an apology followed up by an immediate correction of my own kids' behavior.

I think there's about 200 strategies out there for grooming children for society. Use the ones that work -- but dammit, do something. If you want to criticize someone else for the manner in which they're disciplining their kids -- I'd like to suggest you spend your efforts talking to the parents that never discipline their kids -- because there's A LOT of them out there.

Thanks.


Ohhh this is so topical. Just last night, Hubs and I took the baby to get out of the house for a night, going to the pizza joint around the corner (not a Pizza Hut or anything gross and overpopulated, but nicer mellower place). We hadn't been there ten minutes when this couple came in with the most spastic brat I've ever seen in my life. They're the ones that called the kid's name a billion times, threatened to put him in a high chair, but couldn't be inconvenienced to actually get their kid under control.

This brat ran around (with servers carrying hot dishes), had tantrums, screeched so loudly and for so long it yanked our 2-1/2 week old out of a deep sleep, crying, whining, and generally made a nuisance to the point where people asked for their checks and left. The parents completely ignored the kid's poor behavior beyond the meaningless "kid, come here. Kid, come here," and obviously had no shame about it whatsoever...

All I could think with my teeth clenched were two things: 1) my late great mother would NEVER have tolerated this behavior - she would yank us out and take us home. "I will NOT have you embarrass me!" We (seven kids) learned that going to the store/out to eat/accompanying Mom anywhere was a privilege and not a right, and we wound up with behavior that garnered her compliments; and 2) over my dead body will my young son EVER be allowed to behave like that. EVER.

//my kid is so screwed
/and yes, he will get the rare spanking, but only if warranted
//yes, I was too, rarely, and only when deserved (i.e. playing with older brother's BB gun
//thumbs nose at snivelly mealy mouthed non-spanking/non-discipline folks
 
2009-10-22 5:57:13 PM  

Hebalo: dhudd: Hebalo: If you hit your kid, you raise a kid who hits.
If you scream at your kid, you raise a kid who screams.
If you talk to your kid calmly, you raise a kid who talks calmly.

Your call.

Obviously you are retarded - at least that's my call.

Wow, that was pretty mature. I guess we know what kind of kids you're raising. Do you not get it? You're the role model. What you do is right, that's what they learn.


Wow, so no matter what your parents did it must've been right because they did it?

Dr. Spock could learn a think or two from you, I can tell.
 
2009-10-22 5:58:15 PM  

Hebalo: If you hit your kid, you raise a kid who hits.
If you scream at your kid, you raise a kid who screams.
If you talk to your kid calmly, you raise a kid who talks calmly.

Your call.


I hope to God when I do have kids that I can raise a child who has a full understanding of the use of physical force when the situation calls for it.

Talking calmly works great, until it doesn't. Both in raising a child, and in their future life as an adult responsible for and unto themselves.
 
2009-10-22 5:59:02 PM  

morgantx: dragonchild: Not when your son suddenly hits a growth spurt AND "rebellious teen" phase at the same time, and realizes A) you've been using violence to manipulate him and B) he's now stronger than you.

I'm not a parent, but I've been on the receiving end of "corporal punishment" used merely to get me to do something trivial (like put away shoes) or simply because Dad was having a Bad Day. From a kid's point of view, there's little difference. If I had kids I would consider corporal punishment, but only under the condition that the kid is being such a dumbass that any consequences will be far more painful than the beating.

I should probably explain... My youngest son (now 6) is the ONLY one that gets that treatment, and that's because it's the only way to get his attention. Of course, now I seldom have to do it. It's usually more of, "Put your shoes away." Then he ignores, and I clap my hands or get him to look at me and tell him very clearly (so he doesn't mistake me), "Put your shoes away." If he ignores me (i.e., refuses to do it) after that, then he gets one swat and he gets told again. After I'm sure that he's heard me correctly, his refusal to do as he's told becomes a matter of outright defiance, and that is intolerable in our household.

We spank for four things, and ONLY for four things: Disobedience, Dishonesty, Disrespect, and Defiance (Defiance is a BIG one in our house). We don't tolerate any of those things.

At this point, spanking is rare. When we ask them to do something and they don't, you can usually say, "Are you choosing to be disobedient?" and they'll jump up. Putting shoes away may be trivial, but disobeying a parent is NOT a trivial matter. Disobedience is a sign of disrespect of a parent and is NOT tolerated. That way my children learn that when I say something, I expect it to be followed. Period. That way I no longer have to repeat myself numerous times or yell in order to be heard or listened to.

Children are very smart. They know when they've pushed you too far. Watch sometime... A mom who never spanks until she's completely lost her cool is a mom who has to lose her temper and yell before her child will obey her--he'll push her as long as possible and then jump to obey only when he knows that a negative consequence is coming. Sometimes he might misjudge it, but that doesn't change what he's trying to do. If he has a mom that does 1-2-3 and actually follows up with a meaningful consequence on "3", the child will wait until 2 1/2 to follow the instructions. If, on the other hand, a parent expects to be obeyed immediately and follows through with a negative consequence (whether that's a single swat on the rear or removal of a toy or privilege), the child will learn to obey IMMEDIATELY.


Have you ever cuddled your children?
 
2009-10-22 5:59:14 PM  

Pinner: lennavan: Shostie: TFA : We congratulate our toddlers for blowing their nose ("Good job!")

Jesus, man. If my toddler suddenly figured out how to blow her nose I'd throw a parade. It'd be one less thing I would have to help her with.

I threw a party when my kid hit the potty the first few times. Like monster party with party favors and hats and excitement and stuff. Parade would be a nice idea too. Would you prefer your kid be so excited at the thought of pooping in the potty they really want to make it again or should you just be like "meh, I do it all the time." I selected the first one and he was potty trained relatively early, hooray!


...so your kid has a scat fetish now?


No but admittedly he did have a potty fetish. Everywhere we went he wanted to see the potty, which was kinda weird going over to friends houses. Worst part was he wanted to see all port-o-potties as well. I refused to take him but the wife was willing, hooray for wives!
 
2009-10-22 5:59:23 PM  

scalpod: None of what you said sounded pithy but trite. FAIL


I'm not attempting to be pithy or trite. It's just the truth. I'm not trolling, I'm not trying to get a rise out of anyone. It's simple truth. If your reaction to your kid misbehaving is to scream at him, he's going to grow believing that that's what he should do. If you hit him, he's going to learn that hitting is ok. How could he not?
 
2009-10-22 6:01:17 PM  

scalpod: Hebalo: dhudd: Hebalo: If you hit your kid, you raise a kid who hits.
If you scream at your kid, you raise a kid who screams.
If you talk to your kid calmly, you raise a kid who talks calmly.

Your call.

Obviously you are retarded - at least that's my call.

Wow, that was pretty mature. I guess we know what kind of kids you're raising. Do you not get it? You're the role model. What you do is right, that's what they learn.

Wow, so no matter what your parents did it must've been right because they did it?

Dr. Spock could learn a think or two from you, I can tell.


Why does what I said provoke such a snarky response from you? I'm not claiming to be perfect.
 
2009-10-22 6:01:28 PM  
An example of good parenting (minus the fact it's videotaped)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGQBaYtGNtk
 
2009-10-22 6:02:29 PM  

Hebalo: I'm not attempting to be pithy or trite. It's just the truth. I'm not trolling, I'm not trying to get a rise out of anyone. It's simple truth. If your reaction to your kid misbehaving is to scream at him, he's going to grow believing that that's what he should do. If you hit him, he's going to learn that hitting is ok. How could he not?


Under the right conditions, hitting IS okay. And it's irresponsible to teach your children otherwise.

If a guy starts slapping his girl around at a bar, I sure as hell hope my kid is the guy who stops him, with force if need be, rather than the guy sitting at the bar sheepishly and hoping they'd take it outside where he doesn't have to keep watching.
 
2009-10-22 6:03:11 PM  

Thorak: I hope to God when I do have kids that I can raise a child who has a full understanding of the use of physical force when the situation calls for it.

Talking calmly works great, until it doesn't. Both in raising a child, and in their future life as an adult responsible for and unto themselves.


I'd hope that "understanding of the use of physical force" isn't a lesson you'd inflict on them.

And certainly, there are other ways of disciplining a child than talking calmly. I didn't mean to imply otherwise.
 
2009-10-22 6:03:40 PM  

raptusregaliter: Blink: I'm a parenting snob. I believe my children are my responsibility -- and if they at any time negatively affecting other adults in a public place, I owe that adult an apology followed up by an immediate correction of my own kids' behavior.

I think there's about 200 strategies out there for grooming children for society. Use the ones that work -- but dammit, do something. If you want to criticize someone else for the manner in which they're disciplining their kids -- I'd like to suggest you spend your efforts talking to the parents that never discipline their kids -- because there's A LOT of them out there.

Thanks.

Ohhh this is so topical. Just last night, Hubs and I took the baby to get out of the house for a night, going to the pizza joint around the corner (not a Pizza Hut or anything gross and overpopulated, but nicer mellower place). We hadn't been there ten minutes when this couple came in with the most spastic brat I've ever seen in my life. They're the ones that called the kid's name a billion times, threatened to put him in a high chair, but couldn't be inconvenienced to actually get their kid under control.

This brat ran around (with servers carrying hot dishes), had tantrums, screeched so loudly and for so long it yanked our 2-1/2 week old out of a deep sleep, crying, whining, and generally made a nuisance to the point where people asked for their checks and left. The parents completely ignored the kid's poor behavior beyond the meaningless "kid, come here. Kid, come here," and obviously had no shame about it whatsoever...

All I could think with my teeth clenched were two things: 1) my late great mother would NEVER have tolerated this behavior - she would yank us out and take us home. "I will NOT have you embarrass me!" We (seven kids) learned that going to the store/out to eat/accompanying Mom anywhere was a privilege and not a right, and we wound up with behavior that garnered her compliments; and 2) over my dead body will my young son EVER be allowed to behave like that. EVER.

//my kid is so screwed
/and yes, he will get the rare spanking, but only if warranted
//yes, I was too, rarely, and only when deserved (i.e. playing with older brother's BB gun
//thumbs nose at snivelly mealy mouthed non-spanking/non-discipline folks


For me I play it between the two extremes. My kids will be kids and in a kid friendly setting I am not going to expect them to be perfectly behaved. I will expect them to listen to me and I will expect them not to screw up anyone else's good time. I will expect other adults to get over it if they are just being kids.

I also refuse to parent my kids based on how I feel my mother might have acted or based on the nasty glances given to me by other adults. I decide how my kids should behave, not the other way around.

I will add that they understand that different behavior is acceptable in different settings. At home watching a movie laughing and talking is OK. At the movies it is not, for example.


I am not defending the parents in the scenario you described but sometimes people expect too much out of kids in every situation.
 
2009-10-22 6:04:45 PM  
I hope at least some of you folks, especially the not-yet parents, saw my comment about complimenting kids. Even other people's kids.

We were at an Arby's (Don't judge me.) and my daughter went up to the counter and asked the guy there for something, I can't remember what. She was only 8 and the guy was in his 30s. She said both please and thank you to him. On our way out the guy calls out to us, "Is that your daughter?" I said yes and he gave me a thumbs up and said she had terrific manners. You would not BELIEVE how proud our daughter was.

Compliments work too. Maybe more than the rest...
 
2009-10-22 6:05:29 PM  

Thorak: Under the right conditions, hitting IS okay. And it's irresponsible to teach your children otherwise.


Hitting your child is NEVER okay. NEVER. It essentially means you've failed as a parent, probably as a person too. It means you can't possibly resolve the situation in any other manner, or won't invest the time to.

In your Bar example, the "girl" is your child, you're the "guy". Who is the person stepping in?
 
2009-10-22 6:05:32 PM  

Thorak: Hebalo: I'm not attempting to be pithy or trite. It's just the truth. I'm not trolling, I'm not trying to get a rise out of anyone. It's simple truth. If your reaction to your kid misbehaving is to scream at him, he's going to grow believing that that's what he should do. If you hit him, he's going to learn that hitting is ok. How could he not?

Under the right conditions, hitting IS okay. And it's irresponsible to teach your children otherwise.

If a guy starts slapping his girl around at a bar, I sure as hell hope my kid is the guy who stops him, with force if need be, rather than the guy sitting at the bar sheepishly and hoping they'd take it outside where he doesn't have to keep watching.


Why be a hero who saves a she-douche from a he-douche? I would point at both of them and laugh.
 
2009-10-22 6:05:35 PM  

Hebalo: I'd hope that "understanding of the use of physical force" isn't a lesson you'd inflict on them.


While I wouldn't use "inflict on", I'm definitely going to teach my child to stand up to bullies and abusers if need be.

That other people think that averting your eyes and hoping someone else will do something is the right thing to do is moderately disgusting, to be frank.
 
2009-10-22 6:06:27 PM  

pwhp_67: I hope at least some of you folks, especially the not-yet parents, saw my comment about complimenting kids. Even other people's kids.

We were at an Arby's (Don't judge me.) and my daughter went up to the counter and asked the guy there for something, I can't remember what. She was only 8 and the guy was in his 30s. She said both please and thank you to him. On our way out the guy calls out to us, "Is that your daughter?" I said yes and he gave me a thumbs up and said she had terrific manners. You would not BELIEVE how proud our daughter was.

Compliments work too. Maybe more than the rest...


Dude was a pedo.
 
2009-10-22 6:08:32 PM  

Thorak: While I wouldn't use "inflict on", I'm definitely going to teach my child to stand up to bullies and abusers if need be.

That other people think that averting your eyes and hoping someone else will do something is the right thing to do is moderately disgusting, to be frank.


I agree with taking action in certain circumstances, but i'm a bit scared that you equate hitting your kid with preparing him to deal with those circumstances.
 
2009-10-22 6:09:39 PM  

jst3p: Dude was a pedo.



Yeah but we got free fries...
 
2009-10-22 6:10:25 PM  

Hebalo: Hitting your child is NEVER okay. NEVER. It essentially means you've failed as a parent, probably as a person too. It means you can't possibly resolve the situation in any other manner, or won't invest the time to.

In your Bar example, the "girl" is your child, you're the "guy". Who is the person stepping in?


Okay, let's be clear;
Do you think spanking is "hitting"?
If you do, then some forms of hitting ARE okay. The guy slapping his girl in the bar is an example of not-good hitting. Some guy confronting him, and then decking him after the guy takes a swing is an example of good hitting.

If you don't think spanking is hitting, then you've completely misconstrued my point.
 
2009-10-22 6:10:25 PM  

Hebalo: Thorak: While I wouldn't use "inflict on", I'm definitely going to teach my child to stand up to bullies and abusers if need be.

That other people think that averting your eyes and hoping someone else will do something is the right thing to do is moderately disgusting, to be frank.

I agree with taking action in certain circumstances, but i'm a bit scared that you equate hitting your kid with preparing him to deal with those circumstances.


I found that interesting too. "I am going to teach him to stand up to bullies by beating him when he is too small to fight back!"
 
2009-10-22 6:11:28 PM  
Old & busted: No spanking your children. New hotness: No yelling at your children. Coming soon: Child Protective Services

familyrights.usView Full Size
 
2009-10-22 6:11:31 PM  

captain_heroic44: Have you ever cuddled your children?


Lots. By maintaining discipline and order in my house, I am happier and more relaxed. I can spend lots and lots of time with my children WITHOUT being consistently frustrated and angry.

My DH used to work at an office supply store and (of course) always dreaded back-to-school time. He told me that probably 90% of the parents he saw in his store would make negative comments about their children. One woman said, "I just HATE the fact that summer camps let out two weeks before school starts!" (in front of her pre-teen son and daughter). A dad said, "I can't WAIT until school starts!" I meet parents at school that say things like, "Our kids to to the grandparents every weekend. I just don't think I could stand being around them all week and all weekend, too!"

We have to limit the amount of time our kids visit their grandparents and friends because we miss them too much whenever they're away!
 
2009-10-22 6:12:32 PM  

iollow: Parents are human too. And they might not always get it right, but it's their right to be allowed to mess up. And kids need discipline, sorry.


this. And good parents will admit when they messed up. Your kids will respect you more when you admit you aren't perfect and don't know all the answers. Maybe not necessarily then and there, but eventually.
 
2009-10-22 6:12:42 PM  

jst3p: For me I play it between the two extremes. My kids will be kids and in a kid friendly setting I am not going to expect them to be perfectly behaved. I will expect them to listen to me and I will expect them not to screw up anyone else's good time.


Yes, but what do you do when the kid DOES screw up everyone else's good time? Because that's what happened last night. And it was a shame.
 
2009-10-22 6:13:56 PM  

Hebalo: I agree with taking action in certain circumstances, but i'm a bit scared that you equate hitting your kid with preparing him to deal with those circumstances.


The issue is that you have a ridiculous notion of what "hitting my kid" means.

My point was that there's this trend to trying to make children entirely nonviolent, which not only goes against base human nature, but deliberately damages their ability to cope with reality as a responsible adult. It is far, far better to teach them about violence than to pretend it's not an option.

You're arguing for the abstinence-only form of violence education for children. It doesn't work for sex, why the hell would it work for anything else?
 
2009-10-22 6:16:33 PM  

Thorak: The issue is that you have a ridiculous notion of what "hitting my kid" means.

My point was that there's this trend to trying to make children entirely nonviolent, which not only goes against base human nature, but deliberately damages their ability to cope with reality as a responsible adult. It is far, far better to teach them about violence than to pretend it's not an option.

You're arguing for the abstinence-only form of violence education for children. It doesn't work for sex, why the hell would it work for anything else?


I've never needed to hit another person in the 38 years I've been alive. My son is learning about violence, in the sense that it's not an acceptable solution to a problem.
 
2009-10-22 6:17:06 PM  

morgantx: captain_heroic44: Have you ever cuddled your children?

Lots. By maintaining discipline and order in my house, I am happier and more relaxed. I can spend lots and lots of time with my children WITHOUT being consistently frustrated and angry.


I guess if it works for you. You should know, though, that we're able to be happy, relaxed, and enjoy a loving relationship with our son without running our house like a boot camp, and without resorting to hitting him to get our way. He's just a little boy, after all.

Just saying.
 
2009-10-22 6:17:26 PM  

jst3p: I found that interesting too. "I am going to teach him to stand up to bullies by beating him when he is too small to fight back!"


Spanking =/= beating.

And all spanking will do, with regards to this ridiculous argument, is educate him that physical force can achieve positive results. Which it can.
 
2009-10-22 6:17:49 PM  

Thorak: You're arguing for the abstinence-only form of violence education for children. It doesn't work for sex, why the hell would it work for anything else?


Again, you were discussing hitting/smacking a child as a way of showing them how to cope or deal as an adult. I'm scared to see what form your sex education for them takes.
 
2009-10-22 6:18:55 PM  

Hebalo: Thorak: You're arguing for the abstinence-only form of violence education for children. It doesn't work for sex, why the hell would it work for anything else?

Again, you were discussing hitting/smacking a child as a way of showing them how to cope or deal as an adult. I'm scared to see what form your sex education for them takes.



Hope he doesn't have daughters. Just lie there and maybe he won't kill you...
 
2009-10-22 6:19:13 PM  

raptusregaliter: jst3p: For me I play it between the two extremes. My kids will be kids and in a kid friendly setting I am not going to expect them to be perfectly behaved. I will expect them to listen to me and I will expect them not to screw up anyone else's good time.

Yes, but what do you do when the kid DOES screw up everyone else's good time? Because that's what happened last night. And it was a shame.


It depends. If it were my 4 year old I would apologize and sit him down calmly.

If it were my seven year old I would whisper in her ear "You will knock that off right now, if not you are going to be very unhappy. No go apologize."

And she would.


My kids know that I say what I mean and I mean what I say. Vague threats are awsome because their imagination way worse than a specific punishment.
 
2009-10-22 6:20:15 PM  

Thorak: And all spanking will do, with regards to this ridiculous argument, is educate him that physical force can achieve positive results. Which it can.


Nope, that's not all it teaches him. It also teaches him that it's okay to hit and be hit. It teaches him that someone who loves him also takes their hand to him. It teaches him that maybe one day, when his girlfriend or wife isn't listening, or pissing him off, that maybe, just maybe, it's okay to hit them too. It teaches him that if you're bigger and stronger, you can get what you want.
 
2009-10-22 6:20:40 PM  

Thorak: jst3p: I found that interesting too. "I am going to teach him to stand up to bullies by beating him when he is too small to fight back!"

Spanking =/= beating.

And all spanking will do, with regards to this ridiculous argument, is educate him that physical force can achieve positive results. Which it can.


Yeah, I am sure that when he gets a spanking he thinks "gee, Dad was able to achieve positive results by spanking me. That is so great!"


There is a disconnect between your actions and what you profess your kid gets out of it.
 
2009-10-22 6:20:45 PM  

Hebalo: I've never needed to hit another person in the 38 years I've been alive. My son is learning about violence, in the sense that it's not an acceptable solution to a problem.


I guess your son is real lucky that there's lots of people, like police and military forces, who'll do violence in his name so he doesn't have to get his precious hands dirty.

Pacifism in a culture enforced through violence is an absolutely ridiculous ethos.

Feel free to ignore this if you actually practice full on pacifism, which would include never allowing anyone, including police, to engage in anything violent on your behalf, for any reason, ever, including to save your life. If you don't take it this far, however, then you're simply a hypocrite.
 
2009-10-22 6:23:30 PM  

Thorak: Pacifism in a culture enforced through violence is an absolutely ridiculous ethos.

Feel free to ignore this if you actually practice full on pacifism, which would include never allowing anyone, including police, to engage in anything violent on your behalf, for any reason, ever, including to save your life. If you don't take it this far, however, then you're simply a hypocrite.


I know, I know. I suck, with my not hitting kids and trying to teach them that hitting, shooting, killing other people is not right.

Maybe it's because I'm Canadian, or maybe it's because my dad didn't beat me enough when I was a kid.
 
2009-10-22 6:23:43 PM  
Children do not belong to their parents, they are an asset of the State. Parents are obsolete, it takes a village to raise a child.
 
2009-10-22 6:24:12 PM  

dragonchild: morgantx: I don't plan on continuing to spank in 7-8 years. As children age, physical punishment becomes less "meaningful" to them and should be replaced with consequences that ARE meaningful to them.

That's not the issue; it's that this is all about "consequences" = "discipline". As you say, kids are smart. They will remember if you were ever a hypocrite, a liar, or merely abused your authority to get them to behave (treating them like nuisances). Even if you believe you were fair, if an incident goes unexplained and you've run the house with such an iron fist that any "defiance" or "disrespect" gets them more punishment, they will learn to bury the resentment where it will fester for years. I'm still bitter about disagreements my parents ended simply by asserting authority in middle school. When kids realize something's not fair, they won't forget it. You will become "the enemy" and they will wait for their chance for what they think will be salvation: namely, during adolescence when they stop listening to you and look up to all the wrong people who will accurately describe you as a parent that does nothing but shout orders. That's the impression I'm getting, but I hope that's not the case.


That's not the case. The older they get, the more explanation they receive. That said, I think a lot of parents make the mistake of trying to "explain" everything to a young child who's incapable of understanding. A 3-year-old gets a swat on the hand and a "NO! No hitting the kitty! Pet gently!" A 5-year-old gets, "NO! We do NOT hit the kitty! It hurts her! We pet the kitty gently, like this..." A 7-year-old gets a 10-minute lecture on how to pet the kitty nicely. A 9-year-old gets a 10-minute lecture and then has to write a letter to the kitty apologizing for being mean. An 11-year-old has to volunteer at the SPCA a few afternoons caring for animals. (Of course, none of my children were ever rough with the kitty after about 4, but you get the message.) You can't give a 4-year-old the same "talk" that you give to a 12-year-old--the 4YO won't understand it or have the attention span to follow you.

We also teach our children, "Convince me." For example, if my 8-yaer-old asks me for an extra cookie for dessert and I don't REALLY think he should have it but I don't have really strong feelings about it, I'll say, "Convince me." He will then have to explain to me why I should give him the cookie in a calm and rational manner (as much as is possible at his age). In that way, he learns to argue effectively and calmly, and he learns that by making a strong and logical point, he can be rewarded.

Finally, I don't believe in "because I said so." With my oldest (a sixth-grader), I explain every decision to her when she asks me politely and respectfully to explain. She doesn't always agree with my decision, but she always knows WHY I decide in a certain manner. Once a month, we do our "Family Meeting", and usually September's family meeting involves reviewing the house rules and making adjustments as needed. This year, we had a couple of new things we wanted to add. We presented the concerns to the children and asked them, "How do we want to discuss these new policies? Do you want us to just let you know what we decide, or do we want to schedule another meeting to discuss them?" All of our children told us to go ahead and decide them ourselves. My oldest said, "We trust you guys to make the rules. We know you're not going to make up a bunch of rules just to be difficult."

Yes, we can be very strict in our discipline at times, but we are never arbitrary.
 
2009-10-22 6:25:26 PM  
5 and a 3 year old.

A flick of the hand works as good as a spanking if you catch them doing something.

Haven't had to flick a hand in 1.5 years for the 5 year old and about 6 months for the 3 year old.

Started right away for the 5 year old. We never child-proofed any doors or cupboards. When she was 6 months old and she put her hand on a cupboard she didn't belong in, we flicked her hand with our thumb and finger then said NO in a firm voice. She cried for 15 secondsish and then we picked her up and consoled her. It happened twice. She never did it again. EVER.

Timeouts work too usually. Spanked the 5 yeard old 3 times. The 3 once, I think.

Consequences. I teach my kids consequences. Because when they are teenagers and don't do what I say just because I tell them to, they BETTER understand everything they do has consequences for themselves and others.

/Some parents talk about their kids running them ragged. I am a grown ass man. I run my children and my wife runs me.
//That's the way America is supposed to work damnit.
///I have been a pain in the ass for 30 years, I have LOTS more experience at it then my kids will EVER have.
 
2009-10-22 6:25:27 PM  

Hebalo: Nope, that's not all it teaches him. It also teaches him that it's okay to hit and be hit. It teaches him that someone who loves him also takes their hand to him. It teaches him that maybe one day, when his girlfriend or wife isn't listening, or pissing him off, that maybe, just maybe, it's okay to hit them too. It teaches him that if you're bigger and stronger, you can get what you want.


I've had several girlfriends who quite enjoyed their spankings, thank you very much.

About the rest, you're just flat-out wrong. If I'm bigger and stronger, can I make people go on time-out, too? No? Because that's exactly the same argument, and it's ridiculous.

jst3p: Yeah, I am sure that when he gets a spanking he thinks "gee, Dad was able to achieve positive results by spanking me. That is so great!"

There is a disconnect between your actions and what you profess your kid gets out of it.


When he gets spanked? Sure, he's not thinking that on a conscious level.

But it's definitely what I got out of the few spankings I earned as a child. And I've been surprisingly nonviolent as an adult for someone who was apparently beaten as a child and raised to be a vicious monster.

Or maybe your entire theory is a crock based on books written by "experts" who get their books talked about on Oprah.
 
2009-10-22 6:25:32 PM  

jst3p: Thorak: jst3p: I found that interesting too. "I am going to teach him to stand up to bullies by beating him when he is too small to fight back!"

Spanking =/= beating.

And all spanking will do, with regards to this ridiculous argument, is educate him that physical force can achieve positive results. Which it can.

Yeah, I am sure that when he gets a spanking he thinks "gee, Dad was able to achieve positive results by spanking me. That is so great!"


There is a disconnect between your actions and what you profess your kid gets out of it.


Children who are spanked are also more likely than children who aren't spanked to experience adult depression, even if you think it's acceptable to teach them that physical violence is a value. You're increasing your child's susceptibility to a debilitating, life-threatening mental illness by spanking him.
 
2009-10-22 6:27:27 PM  
I yell a lot.
I have no patience and I can honestly say that I hate being a parent. I never wanted to be one, and knew before my child was born that I would suck at it.

/would never tell him that
//full of guilt over thinking it too
 
2009-10-22 6:27:34 PM  
Also, as soon as my kids understood words and could speak I ask them WHY they are in trouble. Use your brains kids.
 
2009-10-22 6:29:25 PM  

Thorak: Hebalo: Nope, that's not all it teaches him. It also teaches him that it's okay to hit and be hit. It teaches him that someone who loves him also takes their hand to him. It teaches him that maybe one day, when his girlfriend or wife isn't listening, or pissing him off, that maybe, just maybe, it's okay to hit them too. It teaches him that if you're bigger and stronger, you can get what you want.

I've had several girlfriends who quite enjoyed their spankings, thank you very much.

About the rest, you're just flat-out wrong. If I'm bigger and stronger, can I make people go on time-out, too? No? Because that's exactly the same argument, and it's ridiculous.

jst3p: Yeah, I am sure that when he gets a spanking he thinks "gee, Dad was able to achieve positive results by spanking me. That is so great!"

There is a disconnect between your actions and what you profess your kid gets out of it.

When he gets spanked? Sure, he's not thinking that on a conscious level.

But it's definitely what I got out of the few spankings I earned as a child. And I've been surprisingly nonviolent as an adult for someone who was apparently beaten as a child and raised to be a vicious monster.

Or maybe your entire theory is a crock based on books written by "experts" who get their books talked about on Oprah.


Except, you know, when it comes to your kids.
 
2009-10-22 6:31:21 PM  

Hebalo: I know, I know. I suck, with my not hitting kids and trying to teach them that hitting, shooting, killing other people is not right.

Maybe it's because I'm Canadian, or maybe it's because my dad didn't beat me enough when I was a kid.


I love how you jump from spanking = hitting, to including shooting and killing people.

Also, congrats on being Canadian. If you'd bothered to check my profile, you'd have seen that I'm Canadian too. This really doesn't make any difference, since Canada is not, and has never been, a pacifist country. Quite the opposite. We are peacekeepers, which involves a great deal of what I am talking about; using force to achieve a positive goal.
 
2009-10-22 6:31:43 PM  

captain_heroic44: morgantx: captain_heroic44: Have you ever cuddled your children?

Lots. By maintaining discipline and order in my house, I am happier and more relaxed. I can spend lots and lots of time with my children WITHOUT being consistently frustrated and angry.


I guess if it works for you. You should know, though, that we're able to be happy, relaxed, and enjoy a loving relationship with our son without running our house like a boot camp, and without resorting to hitting him to get our way. He's just a little boy, after all.

Just saying.


First, different children have different personalities. We never needed to spank our middle child--I can count on one hand the number of times he's been spanked. He responded best to nothing more harsh than an expression of parental displeasure (i.e., "The Look" or "I'm very disappointed in you."). My daughter never cared about spankings but responded best to removal of toys or restriction of access to toys or possessions. So while you may not need to spank your child, that does not mean that all children respond to the same methods of correction.

Second, spanking =/= hitting. Reading comprehension--try it sometime. Spanking is a controlled and responsible form of physical punishment. Hitting is an act of violence brought about as a result of anger.

Third, when did I say I ran my house like a boot camp? I expect obedience, respect, and honesty, and that's what I receive. I spent a very, very small portion of my time involved in discipline. BECAUSE I have used effective disciplinary methods and techniques, I have no need to spend oodles of time engaging in punishment. In fact, because my punishments are effective, I have time and energy to actually TEACH and be proactive with my discipline (i.e., instruction on positive behavior through games, stories, songs, and other "fun" teaching methods).
 
2009-10-22 6:33:51 PM  

Fano: Passive aggressive anger and guilt are much more effective methods of bringing your kids up right.


Mom?
 
2009-10-22 6:34:41 PM  

jst3p: Except, you know, when it comes to your kids.


Seeing as I don't have kids, my raging wellspring of brutality and violence for considering the option of swatting my kid on the bum if they need it is entirely theoretical.

My nonexistent kids thank you, though, for poking in and voicing your unwanted opinions about my theoretical yet entirely legal and ethical disciplinary methods.
 
2009-10-22 6:35:30 PM  

captain_heroic44: Children who are spanked are also more likely than children who aren't spanked to experience adult depression, even if you think it's acceptable to teach them that physical violence is a value. You're increasing your child's susceptibility to a debilitating, life-threatening mental illness by spanking him.


You do realize, don't you, that there have been only a small handful of legitimate studies on the long-term effects of spanking? The vast majority of studies that are cited lump together controlled spanking with violent hitting and abusive beating. Oddly enough, studies that make a distinction between "spanking" and "beating", find that children who are spanked are less likely to engage in anti-social or violent behavior, and that they have higher self-esteem and better mental health as adolescents.
 
2009-10-22 6:36:09 PM  

Thorak: jst3p: Except, you know, when it comes to your kids.

Seeing as I don't have kids,


Damn,I wish I had known that in the beginning. That tells me exactly what your parenting advice is worth.
 
2009-10-22 6:37:26 PM  

morgantx: You do realize, don't you, that there have been only a small handful of legitimate studies on the long-term effects of spanking? The vast majority of studies that are cited lump together controlled spanking with violent hitting and abusive beating. Oddly enough, studies that make a distinction between "spanking" and "beating", find that children who are spanked are less likely to engage in anti-social or violent behavior, and that they have higher self-esteem and better mental health as adolescents.


They don't like those studies, though, because they might indicate that one has to consider certain shades of grey as preferable to either white or black.
 
2009-10-22 6:37:37 PM  

Thorak: There CAN be a difference. Many people seem to have the same problem distinguishing between the two as they do telling the difference between spanking and beating.


So let me get this straight, you responded to my post against yelling at your kids, arguing in favor of raised voices at kids, knowing full well that I never mentioned raised voices, but figured that some people confuse the two, and therefore you wanted to affirmatively and aggressively prove me wrong on the off chance that I was subconsciously confusing the two.

Got it.

Thorak: You've yet to attack my argument.

To be clear, my argument is that raising one's voice and occasionally spanking a child is in no way harmful to the child and quite possibly of great benefit.


If that's all your argument is, then why should I have to attack it, given that I haven't said anything different? We already seem to agree that raised voices wasn't an issue in the original post, and I explicitly said that occasional spanking was fine for parenting. Maybe you disagree on the exact frequency of spanking necessary to obtain a benefit, but that's a fairly minor issue that I frankly don't care that much about.

Thorak: You've complained that I insulted you, swore, claimed I used hyperbole, and suggested I am terrible around children. That's all style issues, wrapped around to direct an insult at me. Which apparently I was wrong to do to you. Is it because I came right out and said it? Should I have tried to work my way around to implying it, instead, like you passive-aggressively did?


Well, if you are looking for a lesson in decorum, I can probably help here. If you insult someone you never talked to before in the first sentence of talking to them, without them having said a single word to you or against you, that's kind of a jackass thing to do. On the other hand, insulting someone who insulted you first, well now that's just self defense.

Thorak: Also, I take personal and direct offense to your criticism of my use of a swear word. fark, in its unfiltered form, has been part of the English language for over 500 years. shiat has been in English since before English was English; it comes from Old Norse straight into Old English, straight through. Sorry, but it's censorship, and I find it offensive in any form.


This is the last thing I want to respond to, largely because I have taught two civil rights classes and volunteer for a non-profit dedicated to first amendment defense. I've worked with a lot of people who know from personal and professional experience what censorship is, and I'd be willing to bet that most of them wouldn't consider it censorship to call someone a jerk for dropping an F-bomb. But it is always good to have people maintain the spirit of the cause. So keep fightin' the good fight.
 
2009-10-22 6:38:03 PM  

morgantx: captain_heroic44: morgantx: captain_heroic44: Have you ever cuddled your children?

Lots. By maintaining discipline and order in my house, I am happier and more relaxed. I can spend lots and lots of time with my children WITHOUT being consistently frustrated and angry.


I guess if it works for you. You should know, though, that we're able to be happy, relaxed, and enjoy a loving relationship with our son without running our house like a boot camp, and without resorting to hitting him to get our way. He's just a little boy, after all.

Just saying.

First, different children have different personalities. We never needed to spank our middle child--I can count on one hand the number of times he's been spanked. He responded best to nothing more harsh than an expression of parental displeasure (i.e., "The Look" or "I'm very disappointed in you."). My daughter never cared about spankings but responded best to removal of toys or restriction of access to toys or possessions. So while you may not need to spank your child, that does not mean that all children respond to the same methods of correction.

Second, spanking =/= hitting. Reading comprehension--try it sometime. Spanking is a controlled and responsible form of physical punishment. Hitting is an act of violence brought about as a result of anger.

Third, when did I say I ran my house like a boot camp? I expect obedience, respect, and honesty, and that's what I receive. I spent a very, very small portion of my time involved in discipline. BECAUSE I have used effective disciplinary methods and techniques, I have no need to spend oodles of time engaging in punishment. In fact, because my punishments are effective, I have time and energy to actually TEACH and be proactive with my discipline (i.e., instruction on positive behavior through games, stories, songs, and other "fun" teaching methods).


Spanking = hitting. It is a form of violent physical punishment. It isn't necessary for any child.
 
2009-10-22 6:40:57 PM  

jst3p: Damn,I wish I had known that in the beginning. That tells me exactly what your parenting advice is worth.


Because the advice of someone who has no idea whether or not they're screwing up their kid is that much better?
 
2009-10-22 6:41:32 PM  

morgantx: children who are spanked are less likely to engage in anti-social or violent behavior, and that they have higher self-esteem and better mental health as adolescents.


Do you mean children who are spanked compared to children who are beaten? Or children who are spanked compared to children who are not spanked (or beaten)? Because if you mean the later, then I really need to see a citation for that claim.
 
2009-10-22 6:41:36 PM  
Links that require registration make baby Jebus cry.

/don't care enough to bugmenot it at this point
//some kids deserve to be both yelled at and spanked
///and their parents seem to bring them all to the grocery store whenever I need something there
////that's why I make the girl do the grocery shopping, I get food and birth control without having to lift a finger
 
2009-10-22 6:44:16 PM  

captain_heroic44: Spanking = hitting. It is a form of violent physical punishment. It isn't necessary for any child.


Bullshiat. There is no violence involved in spanking a child. Dictionary defines violence as "rough or injurious physical force, action, or treatment." I am not being "rough" when I spank my child, nor am I being "injurious". In fact, I am taking numerous precautions to ensure that he is NOT injured.

Are you really so farking stupid that you can't tell the difference between a highly-controlled and calm application of minor force to the clothed buttocks of a child and a violent attempt to injure a child?
 
2009-10-22 6:44:47 PM  

morgantx: captain_heroic44: Children who are spanked are also more likely than children who aren't spanked to experience adult depression, even if you think it's acceptable to teach them that physical violence is a value. You're increasing your child's susceptibility to a debilitating, life-threatening mental illness by spanking him.

You do realize, don't you, that there have been only a small handful of legitimate studies on the long-term effects of spanking? The vast majority of studies that are cited lump together controlled spanking with violent hitting and abusive beating. Oddly enough, studies that make a distinction between "spanking" and "beating", find that children who are spanked are less likely to engage in anti-social or violent behavior, and that they have higher self-esteem and better mental health as adolescents.


Cite me the study which shows that children who are spanked are less likely to engage in anti-social or violent behavior, have higher self-esteem, and better mental health as adolescents.
 
2009-10-22 6:46:06 PM  

captain_heroic44: Spanking = hitting. It is a form of violent physical punishment. It isn't necessary for any child.


Spanking may be "hitting", in a certain sense, but it isn't beating. And it's less violent than them losing their balance and falling down. Gravity, that violent bastard.
 
2009-10-22 6:47:44 PM  

captain_heroic44:

Spanking = hitting. It is a form of violent physical punishment. It isn't necessary for any child.


Beef = helplessly slaughtered cow. It's a form of violent murder. Eating beef is never necessary.

Gasoline = Raping a finite natural resource. It's a form of killing the planet. Driving anywhere is never necessary.

See, this is FUN!
 
2009-10-22 6:48:17 PM  

captain_heroic44: Cite me the study which shows that children who are spanked are less likely to engage in anti-social or violent behavior, have higher self-esteem, and better mental health as adolescents.


The fact is that, so far as I know, that study hasn't been done. There have been plenty that include "any physical force whatsoever, from a light swat to breaking bones" as a single measure.

And there are plenty of us who were spanked but not beaten who turned out just fine who think you can draw some finer distinctions in there.
 
2009-10-22 6:50:52 PM  

Thorak: captain_heroic44: Cite me the study which shows that children who are spanked are less likely to engage in anti-social or violent behavior, have higher self-esteem, and better mental health as adolescents.

The fact is that, so far as I know, that study hasn't been done. There have been plenty that include "any physical force whatsoever, from a light swat to breaking bones" as a single measure.

And there are plenty of us who were spanked but not beaten who turned out just fine who think you can draw some finer distinctions in there.


Morgantx made the claim that that study has been done. I'm calling her on it. All the studies that I'm aware of--%100 of the ones I can find offhand--find a correlation between spanking and increased mental health problems and adulthood. She's made quite a glowing claim to the contrary. I want to find out if she can back it up at all.
 
2009-10-22 6:51:16 PM  

erikike: morgantx: children who are spanked are less likely to engage in anti-social or violent behavior, and that they have higher self-esteem and better mental health as adolescents.

Do you mean children who are spanked compared to children who are beaten? Or children who are spanked compared to children who are not spanked (or beaten)? Because if you mean the later, then I really need to see a citation for that claim.


I'm still searching, but here's some of what I've found so far on the effects of spanking in studies where spanking was differentiated from abuse:

Link (new window)

"The authors conclude that spanking in any group is not a major risk factor for future behavior problems."

Link (new window)

This article kind of waffles on the issue, but this quote explains what I mean about differentiating between spanking and abuse:

"Furthermore, studying the true effects of corporal punishment requires drawing a boundary line between punishment and abuse. This is a difficult thing to do, especially when relying on parents' self-reports of their discipline tactics and interpretations of normative punishment."

Link (new window)

"Researchers John Lyons, Rachel Anderson and David Larson of the National Institute of Healthcare Research recently conducted a systematic review of the research literature on corporal punishment.[6] They found that 83 percent of the 132 identified articles published in clinical and psychosocial journals were merely opinion-driven editorials, reviews or commentaries, devoid of new empirical findings. Moreover, most of the empirical studies were methodologically flawed by grouping the impact of abuse with spanking. The best studies demonstrated beneficial, not detrimental, effects of spanking in certain situations. Clearly, there is insufficient evidence to condemn parental spanking and adequate evidence to justify its proper use."
 
2009-10-22 6:53:00 PM  

Thorak: captain_heroic44: Cite me the study which shows that children who are spanked are less likely to engage in anti-social or violent behavior, have higher self-esteem, and better mental health as adolescents.

The fact is that, so far as I know, that study hasn't been done. There have been plenty that include "any physical force whatsoever, from a light swat to breaking bones" as a single measure.

And there are plenty of us who were spanked but not beaten who turned out just fine who think you can draw some finer distinctions in there.


I've never claimed that spanking has %100 negative outcomes. I've made exactly two claims, both of which I will stand by.

1) Spanking is never necessary, and
2) Spanking increases the risk of adult mental health problems.
 
2009-10-22 6:53:08 PM  

morgantx: captain_heroic44: Spanking = hitting. It is a form of violent physical punishment. It isn't necessary for any child.

Bullshiat. There is no violence involved in spanking a child. Dictionary defines violence as "rough or injurious physical force, action, or treatment." I am not being "rough" when I spank my child, nor am I being "injurious". In fact, I am taking numerous precautions to ensure that he is NOT injured.

Are you really so farking stupid that you can't tell the difference between a highly-controlled and calm application of minor force to the clothed buttocks of a child and a violent attempt to injure a child?


Based on the tone of your reply one might wonder just how calm you really are when you non-violently spank your children.
 
2009-10-22 6:53:11 PM  

morgantx: erikike: morgantx: children who are spanked are less likely to engage in anti-social or violent behavior, and that they have higher self-esteem and better mental health as adolescents.

Do you mean children who are spanked compared to children who are beaten? Or children who are spanked compared to children who are not spanked (or beaten)? Because if you mean the later, then I really need to see a citation for that claim.

I'm still searching, but here's some of what I've found so far on the effects of spanking in studies where spanking was differentiated from abuse:

Link (new window)

"The authors conclude that spanking in any group is not a major risk factor for future behavior problems."

Link (new window)

This article kind of waffles on the issue, but this quote explains what I mean about differentiating between spanking and abuse:

"Furthermore, studying the true effects of corporal punishment requires drawing a boundary line between punishment and abuse. This is a difficult thing to do, especially when relying on parents' self-reports of their discipline tactics and interpretations of normative punishment."

Link (new window)

"Researchers John Lyons, Rachel Anderson and David Larson of the National Institute of Healthcare Research recently conducted a systematic review of the research literature on corporal punishment.[6] They found that 83 percent of the 132 identified articles published in clinical and psychosocial journals were merely opinion-driven editorials, reviews or commentaries, devoid of new empirical findings. Moreover, most of the empirical studies were methodologically flawed by grouping the impact of abuse with spanking. The best studies demonstrated beneficial, not detrimental, effects of spanking in certain situations. Clearly, there is insufficient evidence to condemn parental spanking and adequate evidence to justify its proper use."


None of that comes even close to supporting your claims that:

children who are spanked are less likely to engage in anti-social or violent behavior, and that they have higher self-esteem and better mental health as adolescents.


Farking liar.
 
2009-10-22 6:53:29 PM  

Nuuu: Well, if you are looking for a lesson in decorum, I can probably help here. If you insult someone you never talked to before in the first sentence of talking to them, without them having said a single word to you or against you, that's kind of a jackass thing to do


Like I said, it's the Internet, we're all assholes.

I ass an asshole and called you a twit. You're an asshole and won't let it go, even though you're citing portions of the post where I apologized for calling you a twit. Why can't we just agree that we're all assholes?
 
2009-10-22 6:54:32 PM  

morgantx: erikike: morgantx: children who are spanked are less likely to engage in anti-social or violent behavior, and that they have higher self-esteem and better mental health as adolescents.

Do you mean children who are spanked compared to children who are beaten? Or children who are spanked compared to children who are not spanked (or beaten)? Because if you mean the later, then I really need to see a citation for that claim.

I'm still searching, but here's some of what I've found so far on the effects of spanking in studies where spanking was differentiated from abuse:

Link (new window)

"The authors conclude that spanking in any group is not a major risk factor for future behavior problems."

Link (new window)

This article kind of waffles on the issue, but this quote explains what I mean about differentiating between spanking and abuse:

"Furthermore, studying the true effects of corporal punishment requires drawing a boundary line between punishment and abuse. This is a difficult thing to do, especially when relying on parents' self-reports of their discipline tactics and interpretations of normative punishment."

Link (new window)

"Researchers John Lyons, Rachel Anderson and David Larson of the National Institute of Healthcare Research recently conducted a systematic review of the research literature on corporal punishment.[6] They found that 83 percent of the 132 identified articles published in clinical and psychosocial journals were merely opinion-driven editorials, reviews or commentaries, devoid of new empirical findings. Moreover, most of the empirical studies were methodologically flawed by grouping the impact of abuse with spanking. The best studies demonstrated beneficial, not detrimental, effects of spanking in certain situations. Clearly, there is insufficient evidence to condemn parental spanking and adequate evidence to justify its proper use."


You are a dishonest person.

In your household, you would be spanked.

Interesting.
 
2009-10-22 6:56:35 PM  

morgantx: I'm still searching, but here's some of what I've found so far on the effects of spanking in studies where spanking was differentiated from abuse:


I appreciate the links. Thanks

/not being snarky I really do
 
2009-10-22 6:57:11 PM  

captain_heroic44: I've never claimed that spanking has %100 negative outcomes. I've made exactly two claims, both of which I will stand by.

1) Spanking is never necessary, and
2) Spanking increases the risk of adult mental health problems.


"Necessary" is tricky. You might be able to discipline them some other way that might take much longer to have the desired effect; does that mean it's "unnecessary" even if it's more efficient and effective than the alternative?

As for #2, I'm calling bullshiat. Morgantx just linked a study that provides evidence it's bullshiat, so I'm gonna ask that you pony up a study, one that distinguishes between spanking and beatings/physical abuse, to prove your wild claim.
 
2009-10-22 6:57:11 PM  

erikike: morgantx: captain_heroic44: Spanking = hitting. It is a form of violent physical punishment. It isn't necessary for any child.

Bullshiat. There is no violence involved in spanking a child. Dictionary defines violence as "rough or injurious physical force, action, or treatment." I am not being "rough" when I spank my child, nor am I being "injurious". In fact, I am taking numerous precautions to ensure that he is NOT injured.

Are you really so farking stupid that you can't tell the difference between a highly-controlled and calm application of minor force to the clothed buttocks of a child and a violent attempt to injure a child?

Based on the tone of your reply one might wonder just how calm you really are when you non-violently spank your children.


This.

Thanks for saying it before I could.
 
2009-10-22 6:58:21 PM  
Spank early = No Yelling later.
 
2009-10-22 6:59:11 PM  

The Southern Dandy: Spank early = No Yelling later.


Correction: Spank Early = No Yelling or Spanking Later.
 
2009-10-22 6:59:23 PM  
There is only one right way to do anything.

See how stupid that sounds.
 
2009-10-22 7:04:30 PM  
I don't get the giant leap people are making to equate spanking (a punishment done after a transgression, ideally from a calm state of mind) to heroically fighting back against a bully or intervening to save a damsel in distress.

The latter actions are stepping in to physically stop someone else's violence in progress, you don't calmly mete out a beating to the skeeve after the girl gets away - or if you do, the police are very RIGHTLY called and you get charged with assault. Ditto the bullying situation - you can fight back, sure, but you can't go get revenge on your own or YOU will be the one in trouble.

Hell, even the police aren't supposed to be the ones who START the fight.
 
2009-10-22 7:05:13 PM  

Gyrfalcon:
You do too, if you think "spare the rod and spoil the child" is in the Good Book, Bible Troll. Cuz it ain't in there.


Proverbs 19:18 KJV Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying.

Proverbs 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

Observations 21:14 It's a trying of our patience when people respond in the heat of the moment without checking their facts, but it still beats a snotnose in the checkout lane biatching for candy.
 
2009-10-22 7:07:49 PM  

logophile: Proverbs 19:18 KJV Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying.

Proverbs 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

Observations 21:14 It's a trying of our patience when people respond in the heat of the moment without checking their facts, but it still beats a snotnose in the checkout lane biatching for candy.


Interesting. The verse I see cited most often is

Prov 22:15: "Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him."

Googling "rod of correction" will lead you to various Christian parenting sites that are big on spanking. Some of the literalists go all serious about using a "rod" too, saying you can't hit with your hands, etc. Interesting reading anyway.
 
2009-10-22 7:08:01 PM  
Re: the positive effects of spanking

I would also argue that much can depend on how it is used (i.e., is it controlled or an act of temper? Is it used in conjunction with teaching methods, discussion, etc.? Is the parent normally affectionate and loving toward the child?), and what the alternative is.

A child who is spanked calmly and in a controlled manner by a loving parent they have a close relationship with will have a better outcome than a child who is not spanked but whose parents use guilt and shame, particularly in self-esteem areas. A child whose parents attempt to discipline using ineffective methods (and as a result never learns to respond to authority) will have a worse outcome than a child whose parents are able to maintain an orderly household through the use of spanking.

So many factors determine the outcome, but it is clearn that spanking alone does not cause a negative outcome (or a positive one). It's a "big picture" kind of thing--not something that can be accurately determined on the basis of a single factor.
 
2009-10-22 7:12:48 PM  

morgantx: Re: the positive effects of spanking

I would also argue that much can depend on how it is used (i.e., is it controlled or an act of temper? Is it used in conjunction with teaching methods, discussion, etc.? Is the parent normally affectionate and loving toward the child?), and what the alternative is.

A child who is spanked calmly and in a controlled manner by a loving parent they have a close relationship with will have a better outcome than a child who is not spanked but whose parents use guilt and shame, particularly in self-esteem areas. A child whose parents attempt to discipline using ineffective methods (and as a result never learns to respond to authority) will have a worse outcome than a child whose parents are able to maintain an orderly household through the use of spanking.

So many factors determine the outcome, but it is clearn that spanking alone does not cause a negative outcome (or a positive one). It's a "big picture" kind of thing--not something that can be accurately determined on the basis of a single factor.


When you spank, do you exert the same calm and control as you did when I disagreed with you about whether spanking was "violent?"
 
2009-10-22 7:14:09 PM  
Mocking and humiliation are working wonders for me. You should see the kid, every time someone on TV is in a sticky situation or is involved in some silly shenanigans he covers his ears, rocks back and forth, starts shaking and pees himself and I've never had to yell or hit.

/"I'm not a little girl, not a little girl, not a little girl..."
//Stepchildren: one of the silver linings of marrying a tramp.
 
2009-10-22 7:14:29 PM  
As a bystander, I'm way more bothered by screaming than spanking (unless the spanking results in a kid screaming).

As far as I can tell, the worst discipline is either no discipline at all or inconsistent, lazy-ass discipline, ie, not doing anything about a kid misbehaving until he/she pisses you off so much that you go apeshiat and beat the crap out of him/her and/or scream uncontrollably.

Unfortunately, a lot of people parent the way they were parented. They either don't discipline at all and congratulate themselves for being better parents than the ones they had, or they shiat a brick over every little thing, including behaviors that are just how kids are (crying, cranky, dropping stuff accidentally, maybe getting a little too excited and screechy). There seem to be lots of people who think either that kids naturally know how to behave well without being taught or that if a kid ever does anything kidlike, he/she should be harshly corrected and never be given an ounce of indulgence or room for error. Both kinds of parents are idiots. And they're usually way more annoying than the children.
 
2009-10-22 7:15:30 PM  
I'd let the yellow pages do the walking... I mean talking.
 
2009-10-22 7:17:42 PM  

Devil's Playground: I raised three children, starting when I was 17. I yelled allot. Spanked them often as well. I am now 49, and in August my 9 1/2 y.o. grandson moved in with my wife and I. I have yet to feel the need to yell, let alone hit him. Yes, he is unruly at times. He neglects his chores, homework etc., but I sit him down and explain to him why we have rules and what is expected of him. I have had to take away privileges a few times. I can honestly tell you his behavior has changed for the better in two months time. Kids understand more than most adults give them credit for.
I have come to the conclusion that no one should have kids until they are in their 40's.


Yeah I can agree with that to a certain degree. My dad was 46 and my mom was 44 when they had me. Dad had 8 kids with his first wife. None of kids are close to him except for me, both he and my mom are/were amazing parents.
 
2009-10-22 7:17:45 PM  
Why is it always about what's best for the children? Why isn't it ever what is best for the parents and children? There's gotta be some compromise. Sure, hitting the kid may not be the best for him, but it may help the parent out a lot.
 
2009-10-22 7:18:18 PM  

captain_heroic44: When you spank, do you exert the same calm and control as you did when I disagreed with you about whether spanking was "violent?"


I am generally far more calm with my little ones since they are not stupid, purposely dense, or unable to understand the English language.
 
2009-10-22 7:19:24 PM  

Farkwaddle: My kid will get both spankings and talking-to's when warranted. He will also get praise and unconditional love. He's only 7 months old so he has a little while to get his act together before the belt comes off.
Skinned knee - no crying and rub some dirt in it
Being bullied - I'll teach you how to stand up for yourself
Being a bully - I'll show you what it feels like to be bullied
Back-talk me or your mother - you get a slap on the mouth (not hard) and sent to bed

I'm not a hard-ass but I'm not raising a pussy either. My wife agrees.


You're a dumbass
 
2009-10-22 7:25:21 PM  
I can't teach my 3 year old the consequences of playing in the street by running him over with a car. That would be frowned upon.

I can't simply explain to the 3 year old the consequences of playing in the street. He's not capable of understanding the explanation.

I CAN substitute the real consequence of being run over by a car with another consequence...a spank on the butt. The 3 year old now understands that playing in the street is dangerous because "if I play in the street, Dad will spank my ass, and that HURTS. I know because he did it the last time I tried to play in the street", says the 3 year old to hisself.
 
2009-10-22 7:29:36 PM  
I've got a feeling a lot of "modern" parents think that being mad at their kids means they've done something wrong. So they bottle it all up until they explode.

When in fact, being mad at your kids should mean your kids did something wrong.

My parents didn't yell, but they knew the value of talking sternly, with the occasional spanking. WAY more effective than yelling.
 
2009-10-22 7:31:25 PM  

theoriginalslash: As a bystander, I'm way more bothered by screaming than spanking (unless the spanking results in a kid screaming).


Loud voices or even panicked "WHAT are you doing??? I TOLD you not to do that!!!" type things don't bother me too badly other than the noise factor.

The "discipline" that really makes me cringe is the yelling (sometimes with hitting, sometimes not) that IS all about belitting the kid, calling the kid names, using profanity, or basically doing emotional abuse. And it's not the volume that sets my teeth on edge, either.

Unfortunately I see more of that than I care to. I'm not a parent myself, but I just don't know how to respond to that. I mean, if you tell someone to knock it off, they'll just turn on you, and yell at you for how dare you interfere, etc.
 
2009-10-22 7:35:28 PM  

Pocket Ninja: I would never yell at you, subby. I love you too much to yell at you. You mean the world to me. You are my world. That's why you've disappointed me so much just now, do you understand? Can you understand my point? I love you so much and want to do what I can for you, but you've disappointed me so much and I'm really wondering if maybe I've made a mistake even deciding to have you as a part of my life. Sometimes you just make me think that maybe I can't keep you around, that maybe you're just never going to be even half as good as I hoped you would be. And it's not fair for me to constantly expect good things from you when I know you can't deliver them. I don't want to be unfair to you. I love you to much to be that unfair. If you love something, you have to let it go sometimes. You know? Maybe you just need to be around people who will be satisfied with you not being good enough. I just don't think I can be that person. I'm not strong enough. It's me, not you. I don't have what it takes to support your failure. But I tell you what. Let's just take a breather now, an hour or so. We'll come back and talk about this later.


Am I the only one who got asked to register at the NY Times site? Anyways, I felt like reaching through my monitor and strangling subby until I saw Pocket Ninja's rant and I calmed down. It was probably funnier than the article I'm not going to read.
 
2009-10-22 7:46:57 PM  

kxs401: Okay, I don't have kids, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the method of punishment is less important than the mindset when you punish.

For example, it's important that you be calm, that the child understands why they're being punished, and that punishments be consistently applied. It seems like these things matter more than whether the punishment is a spanking, a time-out, or a restriction of privileges.


I'm also not a parent, but I do not I have enough experiences with kids through coaching and stuff that it's not always easy to be calm, especially when someone's done something to piss you off, regardless of age. In theory I would agree with what you say, but everything sounds better in theory. Once it gets in real life...not so much
 
2009-10-22 8:11:32 PM  

morgantx: captain_heroic44: When you spank, do you exert the same calm and control as you did when I disagreed with you about whether spanking was "violent?"

I am generally far more calm with my little ones since they are not stupid, purposely dense, or unable to understand the English language.


All it takes to spark your angry verbal abuse is disagreement. The expression of a different point of view was sufficient to make you lose your cool.

Your claim to exert calm spankings of children who you perceive as defiant, dishonest, disrespectful, and disobedient is therefore impeached, and not credible.

Stop gratifying your anger by hitting your children.
 
2009-10-22 8:12:55 PM  

thelordofcheese: IT'S BECAUSE YOUR MOTHER IS A DISAPPOINTMENT! (new window)


[image from img38.imageshack.us too old to be available]

Caps Lock. Not always needed.
 
2009-10-22 8:19:02 PM  
I always like reading the parenting threads. I can normally tell by the language of the post that:

A) You don't have kids. Why did you bother to post? Oh wait, I know why. :)
B) First time parents.
C) Seasoned Vets.
 
2009-10-22 8:22:31 PM  

Thorazine: I always like reading the parenting threads. I can normally tell by the language of the post that:

A) You don't have kids. Why did you bother to post? Oh wait, I know why. :)
B) First time parents.
C) Seasoned Vets.


Here we go again.

Not having kids does not mean you don't know how to parent.

& even more so.....

Having Kids, does not mean you know how to parent! (badbreeders new window)
 
2009-10-22 8:28:17 PM  

Dr.Knockboots: My mother gave other mothers and my teachers approval to spank me/hit me if I was bad.
34, YMMV


Yeah, but don't you think it's a bit weird that she gave that permission just last week?
 
2009-10-22 8:28:35 PM  

detfrost1: Thorazine: I always like reading the parenting threads. I can normally tell by the language of the post that:

A) You don't have kids. Why did you bother to post? Oh wait, I know why. :)
B) First time parents.
C) Seasoned Vets.

Here we go again.

Not having kids does not mean you don't know how to parent.

& even more so.....

Having Kids, does not mean you know how to parent! (badbreeders new window)



Maybe. But it's been my experience that individuals who do not have kids lack a certain incite that people with children have. It's kinda like knowing how to build a nuclear weapon and actually building a nuclear weapon. Sometimes there just no substitute for experience.
 
2009-10-22 8:37:08 PM  

ginrei724: BobNesta420: FTA: "If someone yelled at you at work, you'd find that pretty jarring. We don't apply that standard to children."

Well, sure. But I also don't crap in my pants and then reach in, so I can use my shiat as finger paint for the office walls. If I did, then I think a little yelling may be warranted.

......Dad?


Hebalo: Thorak: Under the right conditions, hitting IS okay. And it's irresponsible to teach your children otherwise.

Hitting your child is NEVER okay. NEVER. It essentially means you've failed as a parent, probably as a person too. It means you can't possibly resolve the situation in any other manner, or won't invest the time to.

In your Bar example, the "girl" is your child, you're the "guy". Who is the person stepping in?


I don't have children, but if I did, I would rather give it a spank which would physically hurt it for a few seconds and teach it a lesson, then have that child hurt itself much worse because I wasn't able to provide that lesson. If that makes me a barbarian, so be it. But who are you to judge me, or anyone else? Who am I to judge you? We have different opinions. There is more than one way to solve any problem.

Life is hard, it is full of pain. It also the most amazing gift, and full of love. IMO giving a spank when necessary (but like everyone else, as a last resort) helps enforce that lesson.
 
2009-10-22 8:46:53 PM  
"I've never needed to hit another person in the 38 years I've been alive. My son is learning about violence, in the sense that it's not an acceptable solution to a problem.

How many times has he lost his lunch money this year?
 
2009-10-22 8:49:00 PM  
As an animal, I needed my parents to hit & yell now and again. But only when I was too young for abstract concepts and only when I really screwed up. As the kid gets older the methods of instilling awe at the power and responsibilities of adults change.
 
2009-10-22 8:49:13 PM  
2 weeks ago I got word that my half brother is sitting in jail accused of trying to rip off some drug dealers with an assault rifle... They emphatically told him 'NO' - beating half to death - and he may lose an eye and a testicle because of it. His mug shot makes me want to cry.

His hippy parents (one of them mine) would never set limits and gave him no boundaries (so I am told).

There are consequences for bad parenting...
 
2009-10-22 8:52:05 PM  

Hebalo: Thorak: Pacifism in a culture enforced through violence is an absolutely ridiculous ethos.

Feel free to ignore this if you actually practice full on pacifism, which would include never allowing anyone, including police, to engage in anything violent on your behalf, for any reason, ever, including to save your life. If you don't take it this far, however, then you're simply a hypocrite.

I know, I know. I suck, with my not hitting kids and trying to teach them that hitting, shooting, killing other people is not right.

Maybe it's because I'm Canadian, or maybe it's because my dad didn't beat me enough when I was a kid.


Hebalo: Thorak: Pacifism in a culture enforced through violence is an absolutely ridiculous ethos.

Feel free to ignore this if you actually practice full on pacifism, which would include never allowing anyone, including police, to engage in anything violent on your behalf, for any reason, ever, including to save your life. If you don't take it this far, however, then you're simply a hypocrite.

I know, I know. I suck, with my not hitting kids and trying to teach them that hitting, shooting, killing other people is not right.

Maybe it's because I'm Canadian, or maybe it's because my dad didn't beat me enough when I was a kid.


Please do not drag the 99 percent of us Canadians who are logical, and know there is more than one way of doing anything along with you.

K thx bye.
 
2009-10-22 8:52:33 PM  
FTA: "If someone yelled at you at work, you'd find that pretty jarring. We don't apply that standard to children."

People use this argument a lot but seldom does anyone point out that in response to many of the things children do, yelling and or hitting would be the appropriate response in the adult world.

If you are at work and you refuse to finish your assigned tasks and stick your tongue out at your boss, he will probably raise his voice at you. You will find it jarring, but it's supposed to be. It's the appropriate response to that kind of of behavior and it's intended to get your attention and provide an unpleasant consequence for your actions.

Likewise if you were to throw something at someone on the street or kick them, they would probably yell at you and/or beat your ass, probably a lot worse than your mom would. It's a parents' job to prepare children for the real world and teach them what is and is not appropriate behavior. Sometimes to do that, yelling or spanking is the appropriate response and the most effective tool.

You shouldn't be screaming at your kids all the time or spanking them for every transgression. You shouldn't be emotionally or physically abusing them, but seriously, you have to make them accountable for their actions and they're never going to learn empathy and compassion being raised by parents who pretend they have no emotions.
 
2009-10-22 8:54:34 PM