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(NYPost)   Mother goes on vacation to Italy with boyfriend, leaves behind 6 kids with food, credit cards, and list of emergency numbers.   ( nypost.com) divider line
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14643 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Feb 2003 at 12:14 PM (15 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

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2003-02-14 01:47:27 PM  

Lord of the Flied

great new verb! huzzah!
2003-02-14 01:48:08 PM  
Okay, two weeks is a bit long. But when I was younger, I was occasionally left alone for a weekend as well. Granted, I was only taking care of myself, but I was just barely 14 the first time my mom left me alone for the weekend. She had to leave for business, I didn't have a dad around, and she let me invite a friend to stay with me for the weekend, who also was 14. My brother was left in charge of me from the time he was 15 or so (hes 5 years older) until he went to college. We both turned out great.

Again, 2 weeks is long. and 6 kids is a lot. but i agree the benefit of the doubt may be warranted.
2003-02-14 01:48:34 PM  
Abby--it is. Well, if by "against the law" you mean "they get more money."
2003-02-14 01:48:41 PM  
Urbn - you're right, and I don't dispute, that there is a difference between what I discribed as my experience and the situation as presented in this article. My point remains - what about the situation reported on in the article leads you to believe that the children WERE NOT capable of handling the situation, other than your own prejudice (I don't mean that in the pejorative sense) regarding the situation? How do you know that the kids couldn't get in touch with her? Nothing in either article states that - the articles state that the POLICE can't get in touch with her. Where is the evidence upon which you base your conclusion that you "doubt her kids were fully instructed on anything a parent should instruct her kids on prior to her leaving"? Where do you infer that the credit card she left them 'might not work'?

You're creating facts to back up your argument. What about the situation, as reported, supports your position that it was absolutely wrong?
2003-02-14 01:49:10 PM  
Damn straight, AbbyNormal! Although, it would also be nice if people like Michael Jackson could be deterred from 'breeding'(if that is in fact how his came about). F'ed up celebrity/overpriviledge-in-general kids do as much damage as f'ed up welfare kids.

It's weird because I'm actually pretty far left, except on this issue.

Screw your own life up however you want while it's just you, but once you have kids you better step up and make good for at least the 20 years they need you most.
2003-02-14 01:49:52 PM  
I learned an awful lot about sex from my then-14 year old girlfriend. I'm really glad we didn't have to look after 5 younger kids, having the emotional maturity of lunchmeat at the time.

I do wish her mom would have left the country for a while, but to be fair it didn't slow us down any. And for anybody about to make some smart-ass remark, this all happened over twenty years ago.
2003-02-14 01:51:15 PM  
"Urban : 6 kids, a college student, and she's getting trips to ITALY."

I can't take any more
She's a dirty little whore!!!
2003-02-14 01:51:41 PM  

Woud'nt it be safe to assume if the police could not contact the mother ( I use that word loosley ), then neither the kids, I am sure the police asked the children for the info.
2003-02-14 01:51:58 PM  
This is off topic, but remember those crayons that smelleed like stuff? They came out a couple yrs ago I don't know if they're still around. The smells were funny, they had like "sneakers" and "pet store". Oh yeah and "sunny day". He he.
2003-02-14 01:53:56 PM  

What makes you think the kids can reach her if the police can't? If you were a parent on vacation in Europe and the police called your hotel (let's give the benefit of the doubt and say the kids gave the police contact info the mom gave them), why would you NOT call them back? Wouldn't the worry that something happened to one of your kids outweigh the fear that you were in trouble?

They've already been put in Foster Care. After she couldn't reach them, don't you think a caring mother would have high tailed it home to check on them?!?

Why do you want to defend her so bad? Was your childhood like this and you're trying to defend it? I too was alone sometimes at home and had very uninvolved parents but even I can see that what this woman has done is out and out wrong and severe enough to deserve punishment.
2003-02-14 01:54:03 PM  
Kevra -

If the children weren't the ones that called the police, and they didn't want their mom to get into trouble, wouldn't it be safe to assume that they didn't give the police any information they didn't have to?
2003-02-14 01:54:57 PM  
She is on welfare ?

yee gods.
2003-02-14 01:55:02 PM  
Gawd I cant type today! but I hope you got what I ment regarding the kids knowledge of mom's whereabouts.
2003-02-14 01:58:36 PM  

If the children didn't give the police the info, that too tells me they are being raised badly. Obviously, they deduced on their own or the mom told them that this was not a good thing and so they keep their traps shut, all of them, and go into foster care rather than give the police their mom's contact info? Great family.
2003-02-14 01:59:51 PM  

I suppose, But I think that would be strecthing a bit. I would think a cop would have a lot of stroke with a 14 year old kid, who is probably mighty nervous to begin with. Who knows.
2003-02-14 02:00:18 PM  
Urbn - what makes you think the children COULDN'T reach her if the police can't?

It's not that I'm trying to defend her 'so bad', but I won't concede points you haven't disproven. Do I think she left her contact information with the children? Probably not, but there's nothing as reported that states that she didn't, only that the police didn't have that information. As such, I don't know whether or not she failed to leave it for the children, and as such cannot reasonably infer that the children did not hide that information from the police if they possessed it. Get it?

I'm not trying to defend my childhood experiences. They were what they were, and they helped make me the person I am today. Nowhere did I say that BOTH my parents were 'uninvolved', and that actually couldn't be further from the truth. Pop psychology won't win this debate for you.
2003-02-14 02:03:04 PM  
Kevra - entirely possible (and perhaps probable), but most of the 14-year-olds I've known throughout my life were cocky bastages all too happy to mislead authorities if they weren't interested in helping them out. Have you had different experiences? Kids are sneaky little buggers when they want to be.
2003-02-14 02:03:06 PM  
14 year olds have kids of their own these days.
The woman left them with a credit card and food. That's better than some of the ghetto-kids around here have.
And 14 year-old are certainly old enough to babysit if nothing else. What's the big deal?
Now, if all the kids were under 10 or something I could see it, but a 14 year old knows how to call 911 in an emergency, buy shiat they need with a CC, and make food to eat.

I don't see a problem here. When I was 15, my Mom took a vacation for a week and left me home. I loved it. I was smart enough to know not to fark up the house or get into trouble. Jesus, hundreds of kids missing from DCFS in Florida (and everywhere else, I'm sure), and they pick on this lady.
2003-02-14 02:04:59 PM  

You're running in circles. The fact remains her kids are in foster care and she's nowhere to be found. A good parent would come home and deal with this. If the kids CAN reach her, then she knows they are in foster care and only a monster would leave them while enjoying the rest of her vacation. If she doesn't know, that means she hasn't been in contact with them and she should be home by now, worried sick about them. How's that for pop psychology?
2003-02-14 02:06:44 PM  

I don't think a 14 yr old can handle 5 younger children.

no chance. not a facking chance.

MAYBE for one night, if a parent is within a hour or two of returning, or a neighbor is on call.

perhaps nobody would get injured, but it would mess them all up. Lord of the Flies.
2003-02-14 02:08:31 PM  
Urbn - "If the children didn't give the police the info, that too tells me they are being raised badly." Why? Because they didn't provide police (I realize this is hypothetical) with their mother's contact information? It looks to me as if, in that situation, the police are interrupting something they're mandated to interrupt, but is not necessarily in need of interruption. You're making judgments based on your own morals that don't address the circumstance of the situation. Can you honestly tell me there is never a time when you should't provide a police officer with information he or she seeks?
2003-02-14 02:10:04 PM  

You're picking on little phrases and not answering my actual statements and questions. Please answer the full p.ost and not just fragments.
2003-02-14 02:10:41 PM  
Since y'all are being way too civilized, let's add some more info to the debate.

Vacation mom has history of child abuse

The father of the children lives in Thornton. A restraining order allows him to visit the children only if a social services worker is present.
In divorce papers filed in Weld County Court, the couple fired accusations back and forth; they both claim the other is abusing the children.

Officials waiting for mom to return

Vacationing mother might be charged with child abuse

The oldest child, a 14-year-old girl, was left in charge of the other children, whose ages are 6, 8, 10, 11 and 12. However, when police went to the house last week to check on the children, the 14-year-old wasn't home. She returned later and her boyfriend and one of his friends also came to the house. Police originally identified the oldest child as 15, but, on Wednesday, corrected her age to 14.
2003-02-14 02:10:50 PM  
Urbn, or you could go fark yourself :-p I never said it was no big deal, I said that reacting like it's the end of the world is a blind reaction.
2003-02-14 02:11:00 PM  
My mom also went overseas for a couple of weeks but left me several hundred dollars and gave me permission to throw a party. I did. Twice.

She then got pissed at me for spending all the money, and I did not see a dime from her for months as a punishment. Go figure.
2003-02-14 02:11:16 PM  

You're picking on little phrases and not answering my actual statements and questions. Please answer the full p.ost and not just fragments.

I'm sure there are occasions where people do and maybe it is advisable to withold info from authorities. However, 6 kids on their own about to be put into foster care is not one of those times and if this 14 year old is so mature he/she should have realized that much.
2003-02-14 02:13:14 PM  
Hell, fourteen with a CC. This kid should've had enough bankroll to hire a babysitter.

Two words: Pr0n Resale

Oh yeah, the mom's an irresponsible coont too.
2003-02-14 02:13:45 PM  

I was that kind of kid. Perhaps that's why I see the way I parent damn sure aint the way I was brought up. I would rather be accused of over-protection then neglect. I also think it is safe to say the bastages you speak of were neglected as well.
2003-02-14 02:14:37 PM  
Plus, I'm not working on my own morals.

I read the article and made reasonable deductions. Also, Malinois linked an article that I also read. Put the whole puzzle together.
2003-02-14 02:15:04 PM  
One more...

Mom goes to Italy, leaves six kids home alone
Children now in foster care; police waiting for mother to return

None of the children knew where their mom was in Italy, although she told them she would e-mail them daily.
2003-02-14 02:17:07 PM  
Urbn -

1. She left on Feb 3rd. Assuming she hasn't been contacted about the situation and that she really is gone for two weeks, no she should not 'be home by now, worried sick about them'. She would arrive back Sunday or Monday.

2. You're right, a 'good parent' would come home and deal with this. If she knows about the situation and has not attempted to return, she's not a good parent. How do you know she has been contacted, though?

3. I'm not running in circles at all. I've very clearly argued the facts as they're presented, and refuse to judge the mother based on those facts, unlike a lot of other people here. I've simply stated that she deserves the benefit of the doubt, and implied that any further judgment would occur after additional facts were brought to light. You, however, have made assumptions about the situation and presented those assumptions as fact in trying to support your argument that this is 'bad'. I'm simply calling you on your assumptions and seeking for you to provide accurate facts to bolster your argument. If you want to say 'It's this way because I feel it's this way', that's fine. Don't expect me or anyone else to accept that at face value, though.
2003-02-14 02:17:29 PM  
I'm kind of surprised that some people think it's OK to leave the country and entrust the welfare of 5 other children to a child. Fourteen is a child. A 14-year-old can't legally use a credit card either. Or an ATM card for that matter, not that she left them one. I trust my 14 y o to watch his sister for about 8 hours. Two weeks would be a bit much. I know adults that couldn't handle 5 kids for 2 weeks. And to not even call? That shows a total disregard for the safety of the kids.
Guess what? When you decide to have kids your days of popping off to Italy on the spur of the moment are over. Too bad. Shoulda' used birth control.
2003-02-14 02:18:38 PM  
2 weeks isn't long enough to starve to death.
2003-02-14 02:20:13 PM  
Urbn - no, I'm answering the points you make, and ignoring the editorializing as much as possible. If you want me to pick apart your posts word-for-word, sentence-by-sentence, I can do that as well.
2003-02-14 02:22:51 PM  

1) If she hasn't spoken to them since they went into child services ONE DAY AFTER SHE LEFT, then no she is not a good mother. A good mother doesn't leave for 2 weeks without contacting the children EVERY DAY. By the second day of not being able to reach them, she should have been on a plane home.

2) See my answer to #1

3) There are clear rights and wrongs in this world. I know some people don't think so and as long as it only affects YOU do whatever the hell you want. BUT No one has any right to have 6 kids they can't support (she got divorced after 4 and went ahead and had 2 more afterwards, this is no just basic unlucky, down-and-out story) and put them through this. She has a lovely history already to go along with this current story. I will not give her the benefit of the doubt at this point because she hasn't done anything to earn it.
2003-02-14 02:25:45 PM  
This woman is perfect fodder for my "Stop Farking" campaign. Get some celebrities involved, put up some billboards, buy some ad space... pretty soon you got Matthew Perry's smiling face telling drivers to keep their hot poker in their pants, and Cameron Diaz on TV saying, "Hey, guys, when you're all hot and horny, just think of me and kill some kittens. But please... stop farking."
2003-02-14 02:27:51 PM  
What? Nobody did this yet?

[image from mediaservice.photoisland.com too old to be available]

I'm shocked such a cliche isn't up yet! (If the link doesn't work, my apologies, I still can't do HTML to save my ass)
2003-02-14 02:38:01 PM  
02-14-03 02:10:50 PM SilverDraghyeon
Urbn, or you could go fark yourself :-p I never said it was no big deal, I said that reacting like it's the end of the world is a blind reaction.

Ummm...no, you didn't say anything like that in your Weeners. If you read it, it appears that you don't think it's a big deal. Sorry. Intentions can't be read over the internet; you need to be careful how you word things. :-p

02-14-03 01:36:21 PM SilverDraghyeon
Galumph200, maybe they don't have kids of their own, but remember being 14? Some 14 year olds are surprisingly responsible and intelligent.

But you know, whatever, blind reactions are a lot more fun :)
2003-02-14 02:38:24 PM  
Why the Hell were they put into two separate foster families? Being separated from your family without knowing when/if you'll ever see them again is infinitely more traumatizing than being left alone for two weeks. Any punishment meted out to this woman should also be meted out to whichever asshat in Weld County Social Services decided splitting them up was a good idea, plus s/he should be fired. And the kids reunited, with or without their mother.

Did I mention that I think that's pure asshattedness?
2003-02-14 02:39:18 PM  
What kind of man dates a skank ho that would leave her six children that way? They're both farking retards. Also, what stores (and how would they get there) would take a credit card from a child? Hell, my husbands bank won't even let me on the account because I don't have a passport! Sad to say but I think the kids are better off in foster care. The mother should be jailed and forced to have a radical hysterectomy. Thank God none of the kids were seriously hurt.
2003-02-14 02:40:42 PM  
Urbn -

1. Point taken. Behavior of that sort is not indicative of good parenting. However, the article in the post only puts two timeline points on the story - a) the mother left on Feb. 3rd; b) someone called on Feb. 4th to report the situation. While one can assume that the local police addressed the situation Feb. 4th, there is no concrete information in either article as to WHEN the police collected the children. It could have been any time before today.

As a result, neither you nor I can conclude that the mother has not been in contact with the children, nor whether it was before or after the police involved, nor how recently she has been in contact with them. Again, the only fact that either article makes is that the police have not been able to contact her.

2) n/a

3) You're judgments of her reveal your prejudices (again, not meant pejoratively). You have standards for behavior and living that she, in your estimation, does not meet, but that does not make her behavior right or wrong, just in conflict with your standards. That's fine, but it doesn't make her evil, a bad parent, or guilty of anything until all of the facts come to light. It may well be that all of the things you accuse her of are true, but the fact remains that you make those accusations based on assumptions, not on facts. I simply refuse to do the same, and argue that any attempt to do so is premature. If you can provide concrete evidence to prove your assumptions, please do so.
2003-02-14 02:41:14 PM  
True, Red_beard_neo, but how many homes can accomodate 6, count 'em six, kids? Especially when many foster homes already have other foster kids in the house or kids of their own. It's an imperfect system to say the very very least, but if it weren't for loser parents we wouldn't be in this predicament in the first place.
2003-02-14 02:46:08 PM  
My aunt and uncle have 6 kids, 5 of whom are teenagers and the sixth with Down's Syndrome. If they can handle that, I'm sure most foster homes can handle 6 relatively normal kids on a temporary basis.
2003-02-14 02:50:07 PM  
6 kids from one clan in a foster home ?

Lord of the Flies !!

you have to divide the loyalties of the children to enforce your position of authority over them. Otherwise they will beat and rob you and make you their biatch.
2003-02-14 02:53:19 PM  
I bet she can still smell Greeley in Italy if the wind is blowing right
2003-02-14 02:54:13 PM  
02-14-03 12:51:41 PM [steele]
I honestly don't see what's wrong with this.

If you, fellow FARKer, choose to propagate one day, please do everyone a favor and jump off a roof or something instead.
2003-02-14 02:58:07 PM  
Why the Hell were they put into two separate foster families?

I take it you are not a foster parent?

There are legal restrictions on how many children are allowed to be placed in a foster home. It depends on several factors, such as the square footage available, the number of kids in the home already (both permananent and foster), if the foster parents are both working, the age of the other children already in the home, medical conditions, pyschological evaluation, etc.

I am amazed they managed to get six kids (all fourteen and under) into only two homes. Since this is considered for the time being to be a temporary situation (no charges have been filed against the mom, and unless they are, she gets the kids as soon as she comes back - legally) that's the best they can do.

Foster homes are usually in short supply, and almost all foster homes already have foster kids living there. that's what they do. It is hard to keep sibling groups together, but it is always attempted, unless there are other abuse issues involved (i.e. older child is a suspected sexual predator or abuser, etc., they will not be placed with their sibs no matter what). In Texas (where I live) it can take six months to a year to "create" a new foster home, so it's not like you can just open up a few new ones when the existing ones get full. The articles already linked explained that the father/ex husband is not allowed with the children, and their grandmother (or was it aunt?) was physically unable to care for them - the agency will try and find relatives first, if possible, for placement.

I'm licensed for three kids myself.
2003-02-14 02:58:24 PM  

All of society lives on assumptions of what is and is not acceptable behavior. I don't go on that moral relativism and I don't go on religious morals. I live on common sense and consideration for the other 6 billion people sharing this planet with me. Common sense is against everything this woman has done in this instance and through much of her adult life actually. I have made mistakes in my life, but never any which would endanger or jeopardize my child or family; common sense tells me such risks are not worth the consequences even if Italy is lovely this time of year and I have a sugar daddy to pick up the tab(don't give me that she may have paid her own way-she was on farking welfare).

I had my daughter out of wedlock at the tender age of 18. I was stupid and making bad decisions. That stopped when I decided I would have my child and I made a workable plan. I built a support system, worked my ass off, and did not continue to be a moron. I did not date and keep popping out babies. I learned from my mistakes which is something people must learn to do if they are ever going to succeed in anything. I moved in with my parents to work on college at night so I could stay with my daughter. I gave up a lot but it was my choice and I never ran out on my kid to go on a vacation when I couldn't even pay rent on my own like this woman did. I saved, I studied, I got a career. I am now married to the only man my daughter has ever known and we are going through the adoption process now. Good choices are not luck. They are hard and sometimes you have to sacrafice to get where you want to be. So yes, I may have prejudices, but I have been where this woman started and somehow I think it's more than just blind luck that I'm not where she is now.
2003-02-14 03:11:56 PM  
6 kids and an italian tour? what does she have a trust fund?
2003-02-14 03:19:52 PM  
you hit the nail on the head...
"You need a license to drive a car.
You need a license for your gun.
But they'll let ANYONE become a parent."
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