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(CNN)   "If [TARP Participant] Goldman Sachs continues to pay employees as much as it did in the first quarter, the average employee will receive more than $675,000 for 2009"   (money.cnn.com) divider line
    More: Asinine  
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1175 clicks; posted to Business » on 14 Apr 2009 at 4:12 AM (11 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2009-04-14 2:03:35 AM  
Mean or median?
 
2009-04-14 2:25:59 AM  
"During the 2008 campaign, those at Goldman Sachs donated $955,473 to the Obama campaign."
 
2009-04-14 3:09:35 AM  
Couple three years of that and you're talking real money.
 
2009-04-14 3:27:38 AM  

SchlingFocker: Mean or median?


"Average" generally means mean, and it seems unlikely, given the pay structure of companies like this, that it would be the median. It seems more likely that this is the mean - high because of the absurd salaries upper management get paid.

Alien Robot: "During the 2008 campaign, those at Goldman Sachs donated $955,473 to the Obama campaign."


Please, paste the donation statistics from the companies who have yet to receive anything. Many will never receive anything despite their donations, some incidentally might. You should know that you've demonstrated absolutely nothing - but then again, you're a troll, so that's not really your concern is it?
 
2009-04-14 4:35:42 AM  

zeph`: SchlingFocker: Mean or median?

"Average" generally means mean, and it seems unlikely, given the pay structure of companies like this, that it would be the median. It seems more likely that this is the mean - high because of the absurd salaries upper management get paid.


Actually I think that "average" generally means average. That is, the total, divided by the total number. Mean means most common.
 
2009-04-14 4:39:50 AM  
I'm pretty sure they were forced to take TARP money. With this in mind, they should be allowed to do whatever they want with their company, so long as they continue earning a profit.
 
2009-04-14 4:48:38 AM  
Peter Schiff explains what's going on in his video blog.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RKMddgS2YM (new window)
 
2009-04-14 5:01:12 AM  

zeph`: Please, paste the donation statistics from the companies who have yet to receive anything. Many will never receive anything despite their donations, some incidentally might. You should know that you've demonstrated absolutely nothing - but then again, you're a troll, so that's not really your concern is it?


Goldman Sachs: $955,473

Citigroup: $653,468

JP Morgan Chase & Co.: $646,058

Morgan Stanley: $485,823

Three other banks that were significant contributors to Obama received money through AIG as counterparties:

Bank of America: $274,493

Wachovia: $214,151

AIG: $112,170

Lehman Brothers, which did not survive long enough to join the list of banks taking tax-money hand-outs, also gave the Obama campaign $276,088.

Source
 
2009-04-14 5:10:10 AM  

theopco: Actually I think that "average" generally means average. That is, the total, divided by the total number. Mean means most common.


Average means one of three things: Mean, median, or mode. Mean does not mean 'most common.' That's the 'mode.' The 'mean' is the average that most people think of when they hear average. Add everything up, divide. The 'median' is the halfway point between the two extremes.

The mean is what they're probably using, and that's horribly misleading. If you pay one employee 100,000 dollars a year, and then 19 other employee 100 dollars a year, the mean of that is 5095 per person -- almost 51 times as much as the median employee is being paid. In truth, one man is being paid 1,000x what the others are being paid.

Most upper management aren't being paid 1,000x more than their employees, but it's still pretty close, considering that if you're making $100,000 a year, that would be a 100 million dollar salary. Consequently, this (pops) article points out that some Goldman Sachs upper management were coincidentally getting a Christmas bonus of 100 million dollars.

Food for thought, particularly on why the mainstream media is so goddamn useless these days.
 
2009-04-14 6:37:34 AM  
I was told there would be no math!
 
2009-04-14 6:49:04 AM  

theopco: zeph`: SchlingFocker: Mean or median?

"Average" generally means mean, and it seems unlikely, given the pay structure of companies like this, that it would be the median. It seems more likely that this is the mean - high because of the absurd salaries upper management get paid.

Actually I think that "average" generally means average. That is, the total, divided by the total number. Mean means most common.


Mode, not mean, represents the "most common". Mean is, as noted above, the arithmetic "average", or, in this case, the sum of all salaries divided by the number of employees. Median would likely be more useful in this case, but I'm sure the media pay would be considerably less than the average pay (for reasons, again, noted previously), thus making it less of a headline.
 
2009-04-14 6:58:57 AM  

Alien Robot: zeph`: Please, paste the donation statistics from the companies who have yet to receive anything. Many will never receive anything despite their donations, some incidentally might. You should know that you've demonstrated absolutely nothing - but then again, you're a troll, so that's not really your concern is it?

Goldman Sachs: $955,473

Citigroup: $653,468

JP Morgan Chase & Co.: $646,058

Morgan Stanley: $485,823

Three other banks that were significant contributors to Obama received money through AIG as counterparties:

Bank of America: $274,493

Wachovia: $214,151

AIG: $112,170

Lehman Brothers, which did not survive long enough to join the list of banks taking tax-money hand-outs, also gave the Obama campaign $276,088.

Source


so?

University of California $1,385,675

Google Inc $790,564

IBM Corp $518,557

/what was your point
//sucky troll sucks
 
2009-04-14 7:19:15 AM  
This thread had real "bash CEO" potential, then it got all biatchy when the definition troll showed up and two people are consuming lots of scroll space over Obama donations that nobody gives a shiat about. I leave wondering if this has become the WoW forums.
 
2009-04-14 7:34:41 AM  

1nsanilicious: This thread had real "bash CEO" potential, then it got all biatchy when the definition troll showed up and two people are consuming lots of scroll space over Obama donations that nobody gives a shiat about. I leave wondering if this has become the WoW forums.


win
+1
trolls, i hate farking trolls.
 
2009-04-14 7:47:48 AM  
Median pay would still probably be pretty damn high. I'd be guessing 100-150k. Possibly 200ish (I have no idea just how steep the pyramid is)

Now, most people live in or near NYC or another major city. I just happen to be fairly certain that starting salary, fresh out of undergrad is at least 60k, and probably 65-70 if you impress them (ivy, 3.7+gpa, dual major, prior experience/recommendations, etc.)

/had 59 for a job in NYC in a similar field out of college, and I know that banking tended to pay a bit more.
 
2009-04-14 8:00:52 AM  
What an asinine argument. Annual bonuses are paid ONCE a year, in the first quarter, not quarterly.

It's like me saying "Yesterday, I got paid $2K. Sure, it was a paycheque for two weeks work, but I got paid $2K yesterday. So clearly that means I get paid $700K a year."

If you use bogus arguments like "at this rate", you can make their numbers look as high as you want them to. Doesn't make it real though.
 
2009-04-14 8:02:44 AM  

Thanatos_10: Median pay would still probably be pretty damn high. I'd be guessing 100-150k.


Do we include all the financial analysis that was offshored to India, as well as facilities, which is most likely tied to building leases? I doubt the toilet scrubber is making $150k.

A lot of companies can boast high average pay because they outsource their ass-raping operations.

/Just sayin'
 
2009-04-14 8:19:37 AM  
We're making Goldman Sachs is controlling Obama posts here? Wasn't the last treasury sec., you know, they guy who developed and distributed TARP money the former CEO of GS? I'd say that's a much larger connection than the campaign donations. But then, I guess, we couldn't blame Obama, could we?
 
2009-04-14 8:30:55 AM  
And hundreds of billions are flowing to secret places and people in Europe through AIG with no end in sight.

/not letting people forget this
 
2009-04-14 8:33:14 AM  

Kareeshus: paycheque


Thanks "pay check" in American..:) And we stand in farking "lines"..not stupid "ques".

:)
 
2009-04-14 8:39:43 AM  

Alien Robot: zeph`: Please, paste the donation statistics from the companies who have yet to receive anything. Many will never receive anything despite their donations, some incidentally might. You should know that you've demonstrated absolutely nothing - but then again, you're a troll, so that's not really your concern is it?

Goldman Sachs: $955,473

Citigroup: $653,468

JP Morgan Chase & Co.: $646,058

Morgan Stanley: $485,823

Three other banks that were significant contributors to Obama received money through AIG as counterparties:

Bank of America: $274,493

Wachovia: $214,151

AIG: $112,170

Lehman Brothers, which did not survive long enough to join the list of banks taking tax-money hand-outs, also gave the Obama campaign $276,088.

Source


Thread Over.

Old Barry takes care of his boys...
 
2009-04-14 8:44:51 AM  

Alien Robot: zeph`: Please, paste the donation statistics from the companies who have yet to receive anything. Many will never receive anything despite their donations, some incidentally might. You should know that you've demonstrated absolutely nothing - but then again, you're a troll, so that's not really your concern is it?

Goldman Sachs: $955,473

Citigroup: $653,468

JP Morgan Chase & Co.: $646,058

Morgan Stanley: $485,823

Three other banks that were significant contributors to Obama received money through AIG as counterparties:

Bank of America: $274,493

Wachovia: $214,151

AIG: $112,170

Lehman Brothers, which did not survive long enough to join the list of banks taking tax-money hand-outs, also gave the Obama campaign $276,088.

Source


This money came from people who work their not the company itself dumbass. People can contribute to whomever they want, hell for all we know they donated so that Republicans like yourself whould have something to biatch about.

From your source:
The organizations themselves did not donate , rather the money came from the organization's PAC, its individual members or employees or owners, and those individuals' immediate families
 
hej
2009-04-14 8:46:27 AM  
Isn't that like minimum wage in New York?
 
2009-04-14 8:52:56 AM  
Wont someone please think of the rich people?
 
2009-04-14 9:23:52 AM  

zeph`: Please, paste the donation statistics from the companies who have yet to receive anything. Many will never receive anything despite their donations, some incidentally might. You should know that you've demonstrated absolutely nothing - but then again, you're a troll, so that's not really your concern is it?


So pointing out cronyism and establishing the links is trolling is it?
 
2009-04-14 9:27:00 AM  

Thanatos_10: Median pay would still probably be pretty damn high. I'd be guessing 100-150k. Possibly 200ish (I have no idea just how steep the pyramid is)

Now, most people live in or near NYC or another major city. I just happen to be fairly certain that starting salary, fresh out of undergrad is at least 60k, and probably 65-70 if you impress them (ivy, 3.7+gpa, dual major, prior experience/recommendations, etc.)

/had 59 for a job in NYC in a similar field out of college, and I know that banking tended to pay a bit more.


Full of much hate. I'm making 33 in NYC. Then again, I don't work for a bank.

/PR firm
//loves it, just wishes for more pay
 
2009-04-14 9:28:58 AM  

GaryPDX: And hundreds of billions are flowing to secret places and people in Europe through AIG with no end in sight.

/not letting people forget this that my brain is full of squirrels


We KNOW already!
 
2009-04-14 9:38:02 AM  
xtragrind: Thread Over.

Old Barry takes care of his boys...


And how much did they give McCain?
 
2009-04-14 9:40:10 AM  

ghare: GaryPDX: And hundreds of billions are flowing to secret Muslin>places and people in Europe through AIG with no end in sight.

/not letting people forget this that my brain is full of squirrels

We KNOW already!


Obama's in it with the Muslins. They're building landing strips for gay Martians.
 
2009-04-14 9:40:36 AM  

Thanatos_10: Median pay would still probably be pretty damn high. I'd be guessing 100-150k. Possibly 200ish (I have no idea just how steep the pyramid is)

Now, most people live in or near NYC or another major city. I just happen to be fairly certain that starting salary, fresh out of undergrad is at least 60k, and probably 65-70 if you impress them (ivy, 3.7+gpa, dual major, prior experience/recommendations, etc.)

/had 59 for a job in NYC in a similar field out of college, and I know that banking tended to pay a bit more.


I had a couple friends go to GS directly out of undergrad. Starting salary was $80, first full-year bonus was $40k. This was in 2004.
 
2009-04-14 9:54:13 AM  

cettin: This money came from people who work their not the company itself dumbass. People can contribute to whomever they want, hell for all we know they donated so that Republicans like yourself whould have something to biatch about.

From your source:
The organizations themselves did not donate , rather the money came from the organization's PAC, its individual members or employees or owners, and those individuals' immediate families


You may not know this, but politically active companies do things like send out internal memos supporting particular candidates because those candidates have policies (published or unpublished) which will be helpful to the company. Couple those memos with bonus structures which mean you'll get a big fat bonus if this person is elected and passes this law or whatever and you basically have what you're suggesting isn't possible.
 
2009-04-14 10:01:49 AM  

the_geek: You may not know this, but politically active companies do things like send out internal memos supporting particular candidates because those candidates have policies (published or unpublished) which will be helpful to the company. Couple those memos with bonus structures which mean you'll get a big fat bonus if this person is elected and passes this law or whatever and you basically have what you're suggesting isn't possible.


I'm not saying that it isn't possible, I'm just saying in this case I have a feeling it was more people were tired of the direction of the country and that is why Obama won. Not how much money GS or any other bank gave. Does anyone really believe that if Obama didn't have the "bank bank" he would have lost?
 
2009-04-14 10:02:16 AM  
Tavernknight: So pointing out cronyism and establishing the links is trolling is it?

The article talks about TARP money that was handed out by the Bush admin. Using donations to Obama establishes what link exactly?
 
2009-04-14 10:07:38 AM  
Flab: The article talks about TARP money that was handed out by the Bush admin. Using donations to Obama establishes what link exactly?

You can't introduce logic to a Fark Politics thread! That's like fighting in the War Room!
 
2009-04-14 10:14:44 AM  

MonkeyVegetables: Goldman Sachs: $955,473AIG: $112,170University of California $1,385,675

Google Inc $790,564

IBM Corp $518,557

/what was your point
//sucky troll sucks


I guess his / her point is that Goldman Sachs obviously failed capitalism school because AIG gave only about 1/10th as much and has gotten even more?
 
2009-04-14 10:21:59 AM  

Tavernknight: zeph`: Please, paste the donation statistics from the companies who have yet to receive anything. Many will never receive anything despite their donations, some incidentally might. You should know that you've demonstrated absolutely nothing - but then again, you're a troll, so that's not really your concern is it?

So pointing out cronyism and establishing the links is trolling is it?


Well pointing out that Supply-Side Economics is the largest Ponzi scheme imagined doesn't exactly net positive results with "conservatives" either.
 
2009-04-14 10:23:05 AM  

Alien Robot:
Goldman Sachs: $955,473
Citigroup: $653,468
JP Morgan Chase & Co.: $646,058
Morgan Stanley: $485,823

Three other banks that were significant contributors to Obama received money through AIG as counterparties:
Bank of America: $274,493
Wachovia: $214,151
AIG: $112,170

Lehman Brothers, which did not survive long enough to join the list of banks taking tax-money hand-outs, also gave the Obama campaign $276,088.

Source


And.... according to your same source, all of those except AIG were also in McCain's top 20 contributions list.
 
2009-04-14 10:26:11 AM  
Good for them. And I hope their offering goes well enough so they can return TARP funds, and pay their people even more.
 
2009-04-14 10:28:23 AM  

GaryPDX: not stupid "ques".


Queue
 
2009-04-14 10:51:27 AM  

Tavernknight: zeph`: Please, paste the donation statistics from the companies who have yet to receive anything. Many will never receive anything despite their donations, some incidentally might. You should know that you've demonstrated absolutely nothing - but then again, you're a troll, so that's not really your concern is it?

So pointing out cronyism and establishing the links is trolling is it?


Yes. I work at one of the companies listed Alien Robot's post, and unfortunately, I do NOT have Obama on speed dial. By his logic, I donated to Obama so I should be getting a high-paying government job in about 2 weeks (and that I don't need to file my taxes tomorrow).

It's the employees making donations, not the companies themselves; and employees donate to both sides of the aisle.
 
2009-04-14 11:09:58 AM  
How did an article about Goldman's earnings announcement, repayment of TARP, and a blurb about average pay turn into political donations?
 
2009-04-14 11:13:52 AM  
img230.imageshack.usView Full Size



"Anybody who tells you money is the root of all evil doesn't farking have any."
-Jim Young (Boiler Room)
 
2009-04-14 11:15:08 AM  

finabuddy: How did an article about Goldman's earnings announcement, repayment of TARP, and a blurb about average pay turn into political donations?


It's typical Fark discourse ...
 
2009-04-14 11:16:00 AM  

finabuddy: How did an article about Goldman's earnings announcement, repayment of TARP, and a blurb about average pay turn into political donations?


Everyone pushes their own agenda. Some just admit it up front while others pretend it correlates to the article provided.
 
2009-04-14 11:30:45 AM  
Quit your complaining socialists, they earned their money through hard work.

FTA: American International Group was rescued by the government soon after. AIG has given $12.9 billion in payments and collateral to Goldman since last fall.
 
2009-04-14 11:57:18 AM  
Kareeshus 2009-04-14 08:00:52 AM What an asinine argument. Annual bonuses are paid ONCE a year, in the first quarter, not quarterly.
================================

Bonuses are paid at the end of the year, but thanks for playin!
 
2009-04-14 12:04:50 PM  
Goldman Sachs...where do I know that name from...

Former CEO Hank Paulson (Treasury Sec'y under Bush 43)
Former Executive Director for Legal and Government Affairs (WTF?) Josh Bolten (Chief of Staff under Bush 43)
Former CEO Jon Corzine
Former trader Jim Cramer (douchebag extraordinaire)
Former Managing Director Robert Zoellick (Deputy Sec'y of State under Bush 43, President of the World Bank)
 
2009-04-14 12:28:58 PM  
Average=misleading
 
2009-04-14 1:01:11 PM  

jake3988: Kareeshus 2009-04-14 08:00:52 AM What an asinine argument. Annual bonuses are paid ONCE a year, in the first quarter, not quarterly.
================================

Bonuses are paid at the end of the year, but thanks for playin!


Not that I don't believe you, but... source?
 
2009-04-14 1:01:17 PM  
As a non-sales bank employee not making $675,000 I'm not getting a kick....


/not even $100,000.
 
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