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(SacBee)   If you're going to steal a van, don't take one used by a judo team. Hilarity ensues   ( divider line
    More: Dumbass  
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15832 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Feb 2003 at 8:14 AM (15 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

152 Comments     (+0 »)
2003-02-07 08:17:25 AM  
2003-02-07 08:18:37 AM  
But gulps huh?
2003-02-07 08:20:27 AM  
-and i woulda got away with it, if it wasnt for you meddling kids

/shakes fist in air
2003-02-07 08:20:30 AM  
judo chop...yeah,baby, yeah.

After reading the story the voice of mike myers will not leave my head... grrrrr
2003-02-07 08:23:04 AM  
Isn't this old? I swear I've heard it before.
2003-02-07 08:23:48 AM  
Yes the news networks spammed this awhile ago, showing clips over and over for a week.

evidentally this farker lives under a rock, in a cave, on mars.
2003-02-07 08:24:19 AM  
Yeah, it should at least be a "followup"
2003-02-07 08:25:47 AM  
This is the result of his trial.

Shoulda been "Followup" not "Amusing."

(Sorry, can't HTML the pretty tags.)
2003-02-07 08:27:26 AM  
All he had to do was take them on one-by-one, while the others danced around. Hasn't he seen any Steven Seagal movies?
2003-02-07 08:28:32 AM  
I'll give you a Hong Kong Phooey Chop!

[image from too old to be available]
2003-02-07 08:28:50 AM  
"Everybody was Kung-Fu Fighting.........."
2003-02-07 08:30:30 AM  
2003-02-07 08:31:49 AM  
Epistax: Maybe he simply didn't live in North America?
2003-02-07 08:35:53 AM  
Way off topic, but look at this skank's eyes:
[image from too old to be available]
Frightening, isn't it?
2003-02-07 08:36:39 AM  
Actually this is cool now that its cliche...

Martial arts wanted to dispel the idea that its just there to hurt, oppress and bully people.

Now people look to Martial Artists as productive people of society, as more people know Martial Arts, less criminals succeed...

Although the effect on Martial Artists over criminals is hugely small... Just knowing its a positive effect, instead of a negative is good.

Just because you're a peace liking guy doesn't mean there won't be times you gotta defend yourself. If everyone knew proper defense techniques there also would be less crime, because the mental discipline it takes to achieve each level is unattractive to the common criminal who wants something without working.
2003-02-07 08:38:31 AM  
Look at the size of her melon! It's huge! FUUUGGGGLY!!
2003-02-07 08:39:50 AM  

Which skank are you talking about????

2003-02-07 08:40:14 AM  
Anyone seen the dancing hamster with the nunchaku? Someone should send that dumbass one in prison . . .
2003-02-07 08:41:42 AM  
shouldn't they take away one "Articles posted" if you put in a repeat?
2003-02-07 08:43:09 AM  
[image from too old to be available]

Would you steal his van?
2003-02-07 08:43:46 AM  
ADMIN JUST SO YOU KNOW, as you probably already do, on the website which is a big chess site, their front page article is the fark photoshop of kasparov losing a game to deep junior, as a chess and fark fan i thought i should let you know, i hope that it is important and that you see it down here in this THREAD.
2003-02-07 08:47:36 AM  
KAMIKAZE JUST SO YOU KNOW, as you probably already do, you should submit the link instead of burying it in a thread.
2003-02-07 08:48:10 AM  
The older article was about the asshat getting arrested. This is about same asshat getting sentenced.
2003-02-07 08:49:16 AM  
woah sorry guys, wasn't sposed to be that big

2003-02-07 08:51:48 AM  
Shouldn't this have been a follow-up?
2003-02-07 08:52:03 AM  
i typed in the site...i thought it would convert into a link? i am pretty new to fark actually...

it is

where should i submit?
2003-02-07 08:59:46 AM  
Is it me or do the 11 years in prison the most hilarious thing written in this article. HAHA!

11 years in prison to try and steal a van from judokas, priceless!
2003-02-07 09:00:23 AM  
I dunno.. btw that html better work!
2003-02-07 09:00:37 AM  
2003-02-07 09:02:13 AM  
2003-02-07 09:02:51 AM  
hi farkers and to fark...but hey they let me talk so it can't be that bad
2003-02-07 09:03:52 AM  
I remember this story from a few months ago. The only thing that woulld have been funnier than kicking his ass would be if they had put the sorry bastard out of his misery. My wife and I own a van, which usually has an infant in a passenger seat. I am her guardian and parent. She depends soley on myself and my wife for her welfare and protection. If someone, especially a low life scumbag who for some reason thinks I owe him something or that I am going to give up possesions that I have sacrificed for, tries to jack me, they die. Period. There is no way that this ignorant asshat could have known who was in the van and who wasn't. He got off easy. So the moral of the story is, since you don't know who I am or what i look like, but you know I drive a minivan and and have a baby, if anyone reading this ever goes to jack a minivan and open the door to find a man and a baby in the back seat, you'd better apologize, turn away quietly and politely, and run like hell. Because it could be me, or someone like me, and if you're really nice, you may not get a bullet in the brain.

PS-My other vehicle is a Hummer.
2003-02-07 09:03:55 AM  
Request to all submitters: please, please, please stop adding tired and worn out cliches such as "Hilarity ensues" and "France surrenders" to the end of everything you submit. It's now just annoying.
2003-02-07 09:07:48 AM  
Cool! Apparently, I can see the future because I was just sure this would happen when I read the original article many weeks ago. Unfortunately, the future is soooo damn boring and lame.
2003-02-07 09:08:00 AM  
The whole scene smelled of Hi-Karate
2003-02-07 09:09:24 AM  
Mboosey strops at submissions - France surrenders, hilarity ensues.
2003-02-07 09:09:42 AM  
this was on the daily show ages ago
2003-02-07 09:12:06 AM  
Breath took my idea, oh well here it is anyway

[image from too old to be available]
2003-02-07 09:16:05 AM  

Easy there compadre! I don't think many carjackers read Fark :-) Also, just because you conceal carry in your van, don't assume that's a cure-all. I am expert rated with a pistol, and have practiced shotokan, judo, and aikido. I still understand that being aware of my surroundings is more important than being willing to shoot a carjacker. Plus if the carjacker comes out of nowhere and has a pistol on in your face before you know what's up, got a contingency plan for that?
2003-02-07 09:16:06 AM  
"I remember this story from a few months ago. The only thing that woulld have been funnier than kicking his ass would be if they had put the sorry bastard out of his misery. My wife and I own a van, which usually has an infant in a passenger seat. I am her guardian and parent. She depends soley on myself and my wife for her welfare and protection. If someone, especially a low life scumbag who for some reason thinks I owe him something or that I am going to give up possesions that I have sacrificed for, tries to jack me, they die. Period. There is no way that this ignorant asshat could have known who was in the van and who wasn't. He got off easy. So the moral of the story is, since you don't know who I am or what i look like, but you know I drive a minivan and and have a baby, if anyone reading this ever goes to jack a minivan and open the door to find a man and a baby in the back seat, you'd better apologize, turn away quietly and politely, and run like hell. Because it could be me, or someone like me, and if you're really nice, you may not get a bullet in the brain.

PS-My other vehicle is a Hummer."
Oooooh your so tough.. GRRRRR
2003-02-07 09:20:16 AM  

If you're going to insuly someone, get it right.

"Oooooh you're so tough.. GRRRRR"
2003-02-07 09:20:27 AM  
Kick ass -- literally.

11 years -- hah ha!

/nelson muntz
2003-02-07 09:21:18 AM  
...and it helps if I can spell INSULT right.
2003-02-07 09:22:27 AM  
Actually, the carjacker was pretty lucky...

If this guy tried that with less "athletically"-minded martial artists, say, a Brazilian Jiu-jutsu team, he woulda beeen waiting that sentence while eating through a tube at a hospital...
2003-02-07 09:24:29 AM  
[image from too old to be available]
2003-02-07 09:27:27 AM  
This reminds me of a cool story:
I was about 11 or twelve at the time, and had remained late at the dojo to watch the Black Belt class, which both my parents were in. As the class was over, and everyone was walking to the front to get their shoes on, a young woman was ambushed using an outdoor bank machine about 40 yards away; two punks punched her, and lifted her purse. Luckily for this girl, she screamed.
Well, as soon as she screamed, about 15 black belts, still in their uniforms, ran out the front door. The two criminals bolted, and the three fastest guys in our club (one of whom is a Toronto cop now) chased them barefoot through the park in the pouring rain, and they managed to tackle and hold the one guy with the purse, while his buddy just kept running (the cops caught the other one). Meanwhile everyone else helped the lady - it turns out her boyfriend was at the other end of the mall buying beer, and he left her at the bank machine by herself. The three guys that ran into the park after the theives got police commendations.
2003-02-07 09:27:36 AM  
Anyone get a look at the assailant?

[image from too old to be available]
2003-02-07 09:28:48 AM  
The leader of the judo team? You guessed it, none other than Bruce Leeroy.
2003-02-07 09:31:36 AM  
A loaded gun in the van with the infant.

Trouble brewing.
2003-02-07 09:36:05 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size

Fark seems to have less retention than a monkey on crack.

Hmm... monkey on crack... that would be a great new cliche.
2003-02-07 09:36:44 AM  
The club's instructor, Nestor Bustillo, said the students punched Hogan, then held him "like a pretzel on the ground" until police arrived.

"Like a pretzel on the ground".

I wonder if that's anything like "a candle in the wind"?
2003-02-07 09:37:23 AM  
I sewar it wasn't anyone I know!
2003-02-07 09:37:45 AM  
Follow up?

Hell, I thought this was an urban legend.
2003-02-07 09:38:07 AM  
Er, um, I'll swear on it, too!
2003-02-07 09:38:13 AM  
old news again
2003-02-07 09:42:27 AM  
Judo Rocks.

I used to train under this guy:
[image from too old to be available]
PHIL TAKAHASHI (doing his trademark tai-otoshiathrow -- That's a french guy about to surrender)
2003-02-07 09:46:24 AM  

Yes, because he's dead.

Why do all the martial arts morons feel the urge to tell everyone their belt and who they trained under? As if anyone really knows their teacher, and it matters that they are a black belt...they'll still get their ass handed to them in a street brawl.
2003-02-07 09:50:26 AM  
Black belts are handed out to whomever can pay for them. 10 year old suburban kids who get winded running around the block have them.

The martial arts have been soccer mommed.
2003-02-07 09:55:11 AM  
2003-02-07 09:56:18 AM  
Black belts are handed out to whomever can pay for them. 10 year old suburban kids who get winded running around the block have them.

Not in Judo. (at least not any clubs I've seen)

You cannot get a black-belt before your 16. and they have two criteria over and above a formal grading, months/years of training between belts (at the Dan level, it is years) or points acheived in tournament.

Black belt grading in Judo is done in front of a panel of "elders" and is usually only done once a year. you have to travel to what-ever club is hosting the commitee, and it usually includes a training "boot-camp".
2003-02-07 10:02:04 AM  

I attended KungFu U and trained under the great WonHungLo.
2003-02-07 10:09:41 AM  
Canuckguy - Same with my karate club - I trained for about 12 years until I was allowed to grade for my black belt, and no one under 16 can grade at my club either. In fact, apart from the tournament criteria (our club doesn't put heavy emphasis on tournaments), it's pretty much the same thing for us. Training boot camp usually runs about 5 nights a week, for 3 hours, maybe... plus any special events that happen at the club, and being a teaching assistant in classes and such.
2003-02-07 10:10:24 AM  
I wish you were right CanuckGuy.

Truth is, you can go into any number of mini malls and get a black belt in Judo in about a year, at 10 years old.

I have these little fat bastards in my neighborhood who think they are Bruce Lee now because they've taken this path. Their parents are so proud too.

Sad but true.

Getting a black belt has become like getting your tv repair degree at home in your spare time.
2003-02-07 10:14:36 AM  

I attended Eat M'Kak Culinary Institute--combining Tiger Style, Dawg Style and American Fusion cooking.

MY instructor can beat up/outcook YOUR instructor any day.
2003-02-07 10:17:26 AM  
Scarneck - I put it to you then that any of those kids are not 'real' black belts then. To quote an old movie:
"Karate here, *gestures to head*, karate here *gestures to heart*, karate never here *gesturing to belt*"
2003-02-07 10:18:42 AM  
I have a similar story that happened to my instructor. He and four of his classmates were headed to a pretty big regional tournament in a van, and some guys on the road started messing with them, trying to piss em off. Eventually they did this move that forced the van off the road. Needless to say the karate guys were pretty pissed. Then these two plicks decided to pull over, jump out of their car and try to start something. The first one there grabbed my instructor and recieved the ever popular kick to the groin/punch in the throat combo that dropped him like a stone. The other guy ran around to the other side of the van only to find one of the other guys hopping out with a big ass katana yelling "YAAAA!" After wetting himself, the guy, ran back, grabbed his buddy, and they tore back to their car and ran for it.
Sad thing is there are a lot of American karate studios out there, most of which (not all) suck, and hand out blackbelts for $100. However, once in a while, the blackbelt really can hand out a whuppin'. And it's always funny when someone tries something with them.
2003-02-07 10:19:49 AM  
etting a black belt has become like getting your tv repair degree at home in your spare time.

Sadly, this is true in many US "dojos" -- especially in Tae Kwon Do. It's saddening to see an activity that espouses discipline and a strong work ethic ruined by such institutions. Were I a black belt, I would be insulted by such programs.
2003-02-07 10:21:58 AM  
Since Karate means "empty hand", was he saying, "Never put an empty hand down by your belt or kittens die."?
2003-02-07 10:25:01 AM  
If you don't end up learning respect, discipline, integrity and a strong work ethic, then it's not the type of martial arts school you want to go to... I too can't stand those fly-by-night 'dojos' that give away belts like candy.
2003-02-07 10:29:55 AM  
Belts get handed out? Not where i train, it's just that alot of yanky schools are mass production money earners, I do the original style of Tang soo do, so not the american adaption, and we work farking hard for our belts and it takes a minimum of 5.5 years to get black.

On another not I used to do Judo and was a blue belt after 8 years. Judo upgrading takes a hell of a lot longer. As I am now a Blue belt Tang soo do after 3 years.
2003-02-07 10:30:11 AM  
Scarneck Well, I guess it pays to actually find out who you're training under. Judo Canada is very strict about their member clubs. Those mini-mall clubs are doing everybody a dis-service.

OBB The tournament thing is that Judo, almost from its inseption, has been a sport as much as it has an art.
The thinking behind that extended from a belief that simply learning Kata techniques wasn't going to make you a fighter. Randori, or "free practice" was a way of testing your real-life skills against an opponent. That extended out to tournaments. Not all judo techniques are allowed (standing or flying arm-locks, strikes) as the point of tournament fighting is not to beat the snot out of your opponent, but to best him with skill.
2003-02-07 10:30:53 AM  
Ouch... is it just me or does 11 years in prison seem more than a bit harsh? Some murderers get off wth less...
2003-02-07 10:31:11 AM  
Definitely don't use the FLORIDA tag for this, O my no. That just wouldn't do.
2003-02-07 10:38:48 AM  
I wonder if they shaved his balls after holding him down.

Sorry.. hadda do it.

Read my old MA faq at:

Might prove funny for the MA enthusiasts in here.
2003-02-07 10:40:19 AM  
Black belts are handed out to whomever can pay for them. 10 year old suburban kids who get winded running around the block have them.

Unfortunatly, there's been a large number of Tae Kwon Do McDojo's popping up, letting kids as young as 4 in classes. It makes me sick, I've been training in Judo 4 years and I'm only a brown belt.
2003-02-07 10:46:03 AM  
Kyoki's (aka Ghostwheel) Top Ten Signs you're in a McDojo

10. You instructor has a Grandmasters Certificate. In Crayon.

9. The Senior Assistant Instructor is a 4 year old black belt.

8. The sign in the window says the school trains in more than 10 martial arts.

7. Its a Korean art. {g}

6. Your instructor tries to sell you Amway products.

5. While examining the schools tournament trophies, you find 3 for spelling bees.

4. Reading the contract for the school is considered a kata (and a long one at that).

3. No one sweats.

2. While at a tournament, your opponent finds out who your teacher is and high-fives his teacher.

1. When paying for your belt examinations, the instructor asks: "Do you want fries with that?"
2003-02-07 10:54:36 AM  
Karate.... hmmmm not flowing to stiff. Albiet someone trained in it for several years will have an upper hand. But a lot of the moves are impractical and a was of energy. I study Wing Chun and have sparred with several Karate practitioners of higher belts than me, and it seems that there is always, you do this move then this move then this and then this. You'd be suprised when you throw something they are'nt prepared for. Unfortunately in a real street fight the opponent is not going to willfully do this then this and then do this so you can do this that and that other thing.

But then again I'm wasting my time on Fark telling you all this... I'm not saying my style is better or worse than another. Just my point of view. I've take Karate for a little while and was most unimpressed. The whole breaking boards thing... lame.

And all this non-sense about belts. You could be a black belt for all I care, and still suck at a Martial Art. It is your skill as an artist, not your belt that determines everything. I've seen Karate Blackbelts being taken down by orange belts!!! Bah, arguing on the internet is like.......
2003-02-07 10:56:24 AM  
Just to be clear. I mean no disrespect to those who have worked hard and trained for years to earn their status in martial arts.

One of the biggest failures in our society is the "everybody wins" philosophy that rewards participants, instead of achievers.

It's similar to my BS degree in Business Administration being seen as equal to the 18 month Bus Ad degree offered at a "school" in a strip mall.
2003-02-07 11:00:45 AM  
I agree Scarneck, upon reading my post I sound like I'm slamming Karate. I wasn't trying to. Mostly trying to get my point that Karate is a very stiff and ridged style, which can easly be used against that person.

But if it centers you and you enjoy it then by all means continue on. But don't just stop there, unless your bound by laws of tradition. You must flow with your enemy, be one as there is no I.....

oh what were we talking about OHHHH thats right Judo team kickin some arse. Lol long live FARK.
2003-02-07 11:06:54 AM  
karate can be a stiff and rigid style, but there's more than one style of karate, and there are even styles of karate that are softer and more flowing then some taiji styles. There's always an exception to the rule.
2003-02-07 11:15:37 AM  
What type of belt do you have?

Brown belt. J.C. Penny, 3.98.
2003-02-07 11:16:08 AM  
[image from too old to be available]
2003-02-07 11:18:35 AM  
I have been training in various martial arts styles about my whole life, starting when my father (who was a black belt and former marine recon veteran) had me practicing how to fall properly to avoid injury. I went through judo, karate, kickboxing, tae kwon do and jui jitsu before settling into wing tsun kung fu and escrima about ten years ago.

My take on the martial arts is that it provides great discipline both mentally and physically, teaches a person humility (always a bigger, badder fish in the sea), and lastly a means not to become a victim. Unfortunately, more times than not martial arts are taught by morons who are out to make a buck and to make a name for themselves. Assembly line approaches to teaching students usually leads to false confidence and results in making them more dangerous to themselves rather than their opponents. Also, most tournament-based schools teach bad habits such as pulling punches, not following through with various strikes and finishing moves. Very dangerous from a self defense standpoint.

Personally, I think it is great for kids to train for the tournaments and such. But I have found that as I have gotten older I am most interested in what is going to work in a self defense situation while under extreme stress and with the least amount of thought/effort/wasted motion. I advocate training the same way you will have to fight/defend yourself to properly understand and deal with the dynamics of self defense. This can be the difference between being able to walk out of a dangerouos situation and becoming a victim.

If you have a minute this is a good read:

Martial arts are like clothes: some fit you just right and some just don't fit you at all. And in martial arts, just like Bruce Lee said, less is more.

Sorry for babbling.
2003-02-07 11:20:51 AM  
2003-02-07 11:34:24 AM  
At least it wasn't... Ninjas
2003-02-07 11:39:01 AM  
Bobneilous: Good point. Although I want to state again I wasn't knocking Karate, as this does work for some people. More over you hit it on the dot when you said it teaches humility and basically everything else you said.

*reminds himself hes at work and rushes back to do um.. work.
2003-02-07 11:40:31 AM  
Sorry, couple more things:

Being a black belt means nothing more than having learned the basics. In Okinawa where my father trained everyone got a white belt, but after many years through training and sweat it would finally turn black. To be a master may take a lifetime of diligent practice. My Sifu is probably the most dangerous man I have ever faced in my life and has trained at this particular style and other martial arts his whole life, but he will also be the first to tell you that he has not mastered everything. And he'll drink a beer with you too. Hell of a great guy!

Secondly, you can learn all the techniques and moves you want but if you master none they will never work. Whereas if you know one or two you are in much better shape. One of the first things I learned in wing tsun was simple chain punches. Very simple. But if you do 1000 to 5000 a day you have a very effective way of defending yourself against 80-90% of any street encounter. Especially if you are in panic mode (not bragging but it has helped me in quite a few bar brawls, full contact fighting, etc...) Less is more.

Rambling again, I know. But just sharing a thought or two.
2003-02-07 11:41:44 AM  
[image from too old to be available]
2003-02-07 11:50:46 AM  
Again Bob you hit it on the mark.

You study Wing Chun, as do I. What part of the world do you reside? LA, California here.
2003-02-07 11:51:16 AM  
Bobneilious: funny thing about techniques I've experienced is that I love to learn new ones, but if I'm in a testing situation, or my instructor just suddenly attacks, one technique happens all by itself. While I technically know like 10 different wrist grab defences, the one I like best always comes out immediately. I love learning more about every kind of defense, because it's fascinating to me, but the technique I I liked, or trained the most, always comes out when I need it.
2003-02-07 11:51:39 AM  
NM i just found out, lol dang link....
2003-02-07 12:02:36 PM  
Chi Sau rules .... hehehehe
2003-02-07 12:09:20 PM  

Montrose, CO. Lived up in Alaska for 14 years or so. That is where I picked up on this. Still haven't figured out why I moved here but it's all good. I have to drive 130 miles three days a week to Grand Junction and back just to train. My partner runs classes there (I help teach and helped open a couple of schools in Anchorage area but I'd rather just learn/spar).

Ethyachk: There you go! I love to learn new things in my particular system also, and please don't get me wrong about my previous posts. I have found through my particular experiences that it is the things that you practice day in and out will happen reflexively without forethought. It really takes discipline to do the seemingly boring technique day in/day out, and not a lot of people can handle that monotony, but the result is that it becomes a part of you.

10x repetitions=learning
100x repetitions=knowing
10000x repetitions=mastering

/um, must work...must work...must work..
2003-02-07 12:11:42 PM  
The best weapon against a carjacker is your CAR. Just roll over the Farker.
2003-02-07 12:22:35 PM  
Well, I agree that Tae Kwon Do gives out black belts too easily. One of my friends got one in a year. However, most other martial arts still take years of practice. Another friend studies Shaolin 5 animal style, and it takes at least 6 years to become a black belt. There's a Karate school around here that tells you it takes at least 15 years to reach black belt.

I did Hap Kido for about 3 years, and it's a good system. Not so good for fighting, but for defense. Teaches you how to fall without injuring yourself, how to get out of many grips, defense, even some weapons. Now I study Tai Chi, no belts there but I feel great.

Now, most "traditional" martial arts are almost useless in street fighting when you compare them to the new, street oriented martial arts, like Krav Maga, or some Kenpo styles...
2003-02-07 12:27:52 PM  
I agree continued practice takes a lot of discipline. And sparring/ learning is where I am at. Although someday I do wish to teach, but to teach effectively I need to study and practice everyday. Unfortunately everyone in my school with the exception of one-two people wish to practice on a daily basis. I've still got a while till I can work on the Mook but I can't wait as have no one to practice with other than school is a little frustrating.
2003-02-07 12:36:37 PM  
Reminds me of an episode of the old cop show Hill Street Blues. The cops were hanging out drinking in their favorite bar (full of off-duty officers), when these two thugs come crashing in with guns drawn announcing a robbery in progress.

What they got in response was the sound of 100 hammers being cocked on 100 pistols.

2003-02-07 12:40:47 PM  
2003-02-07 12:49:48 PM  
I think that good old amatuer wrestling (real wrestling) can be just as effective as martial arts too.
2003-02-07 12:57:34 PM  
Scarneck I agree, only when your on the ground. Once your on the ground, it becomes force against force, thats a whole different ball game. You should be able to avoid this (thats the ultimate goal). I've sparred against some grappelers and boy are they tough, trick is not letting them get a hold of any limbs... with quality comes speed... not speed before quality.
2003-02-07 01:06:56 PM  
I always feel safe when I go out with my Tae Kwon Do buddies. I have a third-degree myself, and there are 5 other 2nd-degrees and about 10 first-degree black belts. Spiffy, huh? Hell, I even live with a couple.

Oh yeah, and this is a repeat. REPEAT!

2003-02-07 01:16:56 PM  
Ndn: I totally agree. I think I have found about 6 people out of possibly 60-70+ who would actually train hard. Not being afraid to hit and get hit hard while training. I am lucky to be training with a partner like that now. If you fight YOU are going to get HIT, no matter what. If you train hard you will know what to do even if you take one in the nose or gut.

This single concept is what most people do not understand. The ones that do are really far and in between. That is why boxers and wrestlers are generally tough to play with. They are trained hitting or cranking on each other. Very effective stuff in my hunmble opinion (watch the UFC).
2003-02-07 01:23:13 PM  
One of the things I hate (after reading this thread and agreeing with a few comments): Black-belt factories.
Hate 'em.
I studied for about 7 years to get my first- and second- degree black belts from a private instructor.
Then I came to the University of Kansas (where I now teach) and saw that it was, pretty nakedly, a simple machine wherein money goes in one side and black belt comes out the other. It's really pathetic; we have some black belts here who would've never passed green (that's a low belt for you non-TKD'ers) at my old school.
After reforming a ton of programs within TKD here, I received my third-dan. I have another two years before I can even think about testing again.

Now, the promotions are still (too) fast and easy, but they're getting harder and I'm making the practice much more intense. For the dedicated, we also have a ton of clubs and whatnot; we work out at least 10 hours a week on TKD alone. So, with my close friends that have acheived high ranks, I feel safe; otherwise, I feel like a "protector" sometimes.

I really hate to see TKD/Karate places springing up next to every McDonald's. Pisses me off, really; it subverts the whole meaning and point of martial arts. It's Asian fever invading, just like anime and Japanobsession that grip every suburban arsehead kid. So, once the novelty wears off, maybe it'll return to the pre-1995 type of practice, wherein not anybody can succeed just by greasing the instructor's palm.

I've been doing TKD for half my life. I'm happy to say I've never had to use it in a street fight; I've been able to avoid them. I have been a bouncer, however, and it was useful there.

But, yeah.

2003-02-07 01:26:51 PM  
Like I try to tell my class mates, "I'd rather be hit a thousand times in the face here in class, than I would once out on the street". The ironic thing is our floor (which is solid concrete under the quarter inch carpet) is red. lol. To train hard is to succeed, in everything that you do. You don't master something overnight. I've noticed most people don't make it to the first year. Or get mad if they get hit in the face. Or my pet peeve is they strike at your shoulder.... would an attacker do this? NO. Sometimes I feel like I'm teaching.... then again we all learn from eachother.
2003-02-07 01:33:35 PM  
bleah.. this is old news.
2003-02-07 01:33:56 PM  
I have been training in martial arts for the last 40 years of my 32 year life. I can break rebarred concrete several feet thick while urinating. I carry so many swords that my blood type changes depending on how much the solar storms affect our magnetic field. When that doesn't work, I also carry my .500 elephant pistol in my ass-crack. You know, just to be ready. Man, nobody will mess with me, ever!

And if you have a problem with that, I will reach through the internet, find your true identity (it's so easy), come to your house, and shave your cat. OMFG, LMFAO!

-L33t 9uy

There, that should about cover it. Time to go back to work.
2003-02-07 01:46:01 PM  
I think that karate as adaptable to meet most fight situations, provided that the martial artist can recognize the weaknesses of his opponent, and knows when to use the proper techniques. If the guy is right up in your face, use elbows and knees, if the guy wants to wrestle, counter him with kicks and don't let him grab you. You always want to fight someone out of their element. You don't want to box with a boxer, or wrestler with a wrestler, because they'll win (unless you fight dirty 8)).
2003-02-07 02:09:24 PM  
Hmmm, well for one I won't box with a boxer, I'll use his style to my advantage. His hook is slower than my chain punch which comes straight from the centerline. And if your unfortunate to get on the ground with a wrestler well, you have no choice but to wrestle and hope thatyour training and skills are up to par. And fighting dirty... there is no such thing. A fight is a fight. Never underestimate your opponant. If he has a weapon, then you go for his eyes and throat, oh can't forget the groin. Personally if it takes ending the fight fast and quick (I'm gunna get flamed for this), I say a swift knee to the nuts is all in favor. For those that disagree with me... don't get into a fight, that or block your nuts.
2003-02-07 02:17:04 PM  
One of the reasons I hate current blackbelt factory style karate places is that they are making it look like karate is a purely traditional and ineffective art. If you are taught by a good instructor, you can find modern street application for karate that is deadly effective. Krav maga is, indeed, really freaking nasty and effective, and it's awesome. But you can find everything you need in karate too, and it's taken me a long time to figure that one out. (I like them both, I just happen to be a karate guy first)
And for you people who are lumping martial arts into general statements like "TKD is lame" or "karate isn't street applicable" or (my personal biggest pet pieve) "Tai Chi is for old people" just let me ask you this: What do you know about my style? How long have you studied it? You really don't have any right to say X martial art is bad until you've studied it, and even then you can only say that what you were taught by a specific guy wasn't good.
But don't take my word for it. Go try something new!
2003-02-07 02:21:15 PM  
Snooooooooooooore. Martial artists are the most boring people on the planet.
2003-02-07 02:23:16 PM  
Ndn: And fighting dirty... there is no such thing.

Damn straight. When the best time to kick a man? When he's down! A nice kick to the jimmies is an excellent fight stopper. Anyone who says different is clearly more interested in a hospital stay then a quick and relatively painless (for the kicker, not the kickee) fight.
2003-02-07 02:24:04 PM  
oh yeah... /b. ahem....
2003-02-07 02:24:30 PM  
Well to clear this up, I was talking about the general Karate thats mass produced. I find nothing effective from it other than a good way to keep your kids babysat. I never said TKD is lame, I said breaking boards is lame... actually very lame. And my friend my pet peeve is when your practicing with someone and they aim for the side next to your head, instead of throwing a punch at my nose. What is the point of this? Do you think your doing me a favor? No, your doing me an injustice and wasting my time. I never said one style is better than the other. Just an FYI is all. It is better to use one move then use two.. it is better to block and strike at the same time vs, block then strike. just my 2c
2003-02-07 02:27:05 PM  
Ethyachk I sense your sarcasm, but honestly if you get into a fight... I'm not thinking ok, lets dance. I'm thinking this guy wants to do me harm. If you end it fast all the better. No I'm not saying I go around and kick people in the nuts, but if he's drunk yep, kick em in the nuts, if he has friends and you know they are gunna jump in any way, nut shot, take one out of the equation.
2003-02-07 02:28:30 PM  
I am aware that anything goes in a fight, and I'd have no issue with shots to the junk or eye-gouging in a fight. Fights are by definition 'dirty' anyways, unless you're engaging in a bout of fisticuffs. Knees are also a good place to kick. Anywhere to the neck works well (the side of the neck if you don't want to destroy the guy's windpipe), and if can do it, lace the guy in the temple with an elbow... it will most likely drop the guy.
2003-02-07 02:33:38 PM  
Its all about the situation. If you know the guy is trained... you get what you can in. Cause in a fight its about one thing and one thing only: SELF PRESERVATION. Eye shots and throat shots are reserved for deadly use, ie. if he has a weapon or there are more than one cronies to deal with. Street fighting isn't a foo foo padded sparring contest, its no holds bar, if you get into a fight on the street you have to have the mindset that this person has one goal and that is to beat the living sh!t outta me. If I can't stop him with in the first couple of seconds in a fight, then by all means if he opens up his groin, I am gunna use it against him.
2003-02-07 02:33:47 PM  
Did anyone hear about that old guy in Canada who killed a cougar with his pocket knife?

Man... that's something else.
2003-02-07 02:37:24 PM  
The point of most martial arts, is not to fight in the first place. But if you get into that situation, you have to use what comes. I'm not thinking ok, nut shot nut shot come on open up, boom nut shot! No, I'm taking it as it comes and if I happen to get him in a position where I can safely take it and I react to it (since I don't think when I "fight" I react). No one likes getting hit in the junk, but do you really want to take the chance the this person is going to fight fair with you??? Thats not a bet I'm willing to gamble on when its my azz on the line.
2003-02-07 02:41:33 PM  
That's Tyrone Jermain Hogan ESQUIRE, to you!
2003-02-07 02:41:37 PM  

Dude, I was totally serious. I completely agree with you. I'm a big fan of the groin-kick fight stopper. I train to be able to last 20 solid minutes of duking it out with huge scary gentlmen so that when I do get into a fight I can finish it in like three seconds. I'm all about not finding out if the guy is going to pull out a knife or a gun at second four and kill me since I wasted too much time dancing and looking macho.
I didn't mean to imply that anyone in particular was accusing other styles of being lesser, that was more in general biatching. Meant no offence!
2003-02-07 02:42:01 PM  
Do you remember the line from "Enter the Dragon" when Bruce Lee went to fight Bob Wall and Bob broke the board in front of him:

Bruce: "Boards don't hit back."

Ndn: I couldn't agree with you more. Same goes to Ethyachk.

Anyone know Emin Boztepe?
2003-02-07 02:49:42 PM  
No offense taken, hehehe to much coffee does that to a person, lol. But all in all if someone opens up to give me a shot to the groin.... its like a free ticket at an amusment park.

Bobemous: Couldn't agree more.

Emin Boztepe... sounds familar but it's not ringing any bells.

Unfortunately Karate is past its golden era, and to many phonie "masters" are out there teaching unpractical styles. As for getting a blackbelt or the last "belt" or getting the stage of being able to teach in a year is just insane. I share my thoughts with my fellow students but I don't teach, per say. In the Wing Chun System it usually takes a practitioner 5 years (training EVERYDAY) or so to fully get everything with in the system down. The only way to even be considered a master you have to have 20 years of teaching under your belt. I don't agree with this 1 year stuff at all. Much like the woman posting a few days ago about taking a 6 week course...... my first six weeks of Wing Chun.... I was still just the same as I was when I first started, I just was barely understanding the concepts... its this false image that gets people screwed.
2003-02-07 02:55:06 PM  
Are there that many Judo teams with vans that get stolen?Once every six months we get stories like this.
2003-02-07 03:00:26 PM  
Initally when I started taking Wing Chun Gung Fu (western spelling), I wanted to be able to block everything someone through at me. I think a smart person would run away not being able to hit the other person. But I soon realized that you can block what they throw but at the same time while blocking you can strike (this is pinical of the Wing Chun style). I've sparred against a few differant styles and its always funny seeing their expression when they strike and you block yet at the same time attack, most people aren't ready for that. Man... sorry for the rambling guys, but this is the first topic (thread jacking) I've been intrested in to follow all day.
2003-02-07 03:05:26 PM  
When I started wing tsun I had to practically through everything I knew about martial arts out the window. Not everything mind you: from a training standpoint it is good to know high kicks, boxing, etc... As I progressed I started to get an understanding of the concepts and trained even harder. Pretty logical stuff. That is when I started to see the holes in what I had been taught before.

Chi sau is a great training tool. It rocks! Nothing like tactile reflexes when bridging the gap. And trained properly is freaking effective. Not that I would know anything about that...

It all comes down to what works for you. I never put down any style whatsoever, because you get out of it what you put into it.
2003-02-07 03:06:35 PM  
Ndn, I know the feeling. LOL!
2003-02-07 03:10:07 PM  
Bobneilious: It all comes down to what works for you. I never put down any style whatsoever, because you get out of it what you put into it.


Chi sau is a wonderful tool. Although many people seem to think this developes sensitivity in the arms, but we were born with it, you just enhance what you were given. To train you to feel....
2003-02-07 03:17:55 PM  
Just a few observations while reading all the comments:

1. 11 years - Heh heh - serves him right.
2. Black belt factories are a product of our (America) need for instant gratification - and a demand by parents for results in return for their money - and greed on the part of these "Grandmasters." A kid who doesn't advance is yanked by the parents, which affects the school's bottom line (I'm glad my instructor has a good day job - he teaches for the love of MA, not for the money)).
3. When researching a MA discipline and location, buyer beware - like every unregulated business, there's good ones and bad ones out there.
4. As with getting an education of any kind, diverse is better. Cross-training in (an)other discipline(s) will make you an all-around better student. Take from each what you find useful, and discard the rest.
5. As far as the usefulness of breaking boards - it teaches students to focus and have confidence in their abilities. It also teaches how to target hand and foot strikes (i.e - aim behind
the board).
6. Like everyone else in this thread, I have never trained with you or at your school, therefore I am unqualified to judge your art, your style, or your master.
Tang Soo!
2003-02-07 03:23:04 PM  
Aztex - I agree with you, especially in #4. But as for breaking boards, it also gives a false sense of power. You don't need a board to teach you to focus and have confidence, but kids are differant on mindset. But all in all I agree with your post.
2003-02-07 03:29:47 PM  
[image from too old to be available][image from too old to be available][image from too old to be available]

2003-02-07 03:37:33 PM  
breaking boards is fun, but less impressive to the person breaking then the people watching. After your first few boards it gets kind of blase. Concrete is more interesting, but still, in the end, not that hard. While fun, it shouldn't be a major part of training. unless it's two by fours attacking you, you really don't need how to hit boards that much.
2003-02-07 03:47:07 PM  
I agree that it "looks" impressive, but I wouldn't waste my time on it. To abrasive and force against force for me. But then again some people like using force. I use Tai Chi (western spelling) to focus and develope energy. I am more of a fan of soft energy vs hard energy, but I admit it is important to know how to use which.

My Sifu has been known from time to time, to have some of his students break boards, ect when we do exibitions. But this is entirely for show. Breaking boards serves nothing in a real fight, perhaps other than remaining focused and calm, but this can be achieved via sparring. I love the people that are gittery and jump at the slightest flick of the wrist. I tell my fellow students, no your distance. Unless I come close to you... there is no need to move. And again I don't teach I just offer my advice, call it constructive critisim, and to be able to give it you must be able to take it, both are hard to do.
2003-02-07 03:51:44 PM  
Since no one wants to scroll horizontally to read every comment, you've pretty much killed this thread.

My supervisor thanks you.

Back to work.
2003-02-07 03:55:39 PM  
Naw, I'm still trolling here on the thread :-)

But still annoying as hell! errr the picture that is... lol
2003-02-07 04:01:16 PM  
Anyone know of a good forum to discuss pretty much what we've been talkin about?
2003-02-07 04:02:41 PM  
karate is all about "ma" or distance. you have to know where you are in comparison to where your opponent is to know what you can hit him with and what he can hit you. I also studied Tai Chi and am a big fan of the sensitivity training I got there. Taking Tai Chi taught me more about my karate then I could believe. It's my personal belief that all hard stylists should take a soft style, and vise versa. Taking a style of the complete opposite philosophy of hard/soft can give you amazing insight into where you started, and where you will eventually end up.
On that note, I'd love to learn more about Wing Chun, got any good sites for me to read up? (I'd like take it too, but I'm very busy training for my next Dan in karate)
2003-02-07 04:13:28 PM

Has some good info, but as with all styles, there are as many differant sub-styles and histories, ect ect in wing chun. But its a start. Just do a google search for Wing Chun or Wing Chun Kuen.

I also agree that you should know soft and hard styles. Its the whole concept of Yin Yang. If your opponant goes hard, you go soft, and vice a versa. Both complement eachother. The sensitivity training you mentioned, was that "push hands"? If you like that, you'd absolutely LOVE Chi Sau (double sticky hands), hell even Chi Dan Sau (single sticky hand).
2003-02-07 04:23:22 PM  
Push hands is the bomb! I love that stuff. I have heard of Chi Sau, but I've never gotten to try it. From the looks of it it would very much remind me of push hands. Hopefully I can find someone around here who'll help me out. Thanks for the help!
2003-02-07 04:23:28 PM  
GIS for supplies
[image from too old to be available]
oooooooooooooooooook then...
2003-02-07 04:28:16 PM  
Np, but first you have to understand the movements and their applications for Chi sau. I suggest if you are going to go out and learn it, you learn Chi Dan Sau first. Chi Sau is very hard to just jump right into, so make sure if you are gunna learn it that you find someone who knows what they are talking about and are at least knowlegable of the Chum Kil Form... on a minuium.
2003-02-07 04:39:48 PM  
But your best bet, is finding someone
that is at Sifu Level. But I wish you
the best of luck in your continued
2003-02-07 04:42:27 PM  
If there's anything I know about finding a martial art it's to research the school you are going to, and make sure they didn't make up their rank. I mean, if a 35 year old white guy is busy telling me about his 10th dan in karate, I'm gonna be a little leery of that school.
I don't know of any Wing Chun schools in my area, but then again, I've never looked before. There are some big names in the martial arts world here, there's bound to be someone around.
2003-02-07 05:12:23 PM  
So very true Ethyachk!!!
Research everything!!!
2003-02-07 05:44:00 PM  
You don't wanna mess with the No Shadow Kick from Fu Shan, yo.

[image from too old to be available]

Ndn: rec.martial-arts.moderated?
2003-02-07 05:52:32 PM  
huh? lol sorry long day, me no understand....
2003-02-07 06:17:38 PM  
Lseelba: Aside from screwing up the page for IE users, that throw is an example of what not to do. The blue belt crumpled instead of protecting both students by throwing himself over. Good way to bang heads and get hurt learning self-defense.

The separation at the end of Tomoe Nage should look more like this:
[image from too old to be available]

These guys put a little too much juice into it. :)

Ndn: In one of your earlier posts you were asking for "a good forum to discuss pretty much what we've been talkin about."
2003-02-07 06:24:07 PM  
"If your opponant goes hard, you go soft..."

Ndn: that concept is hilariously demonstrated in a raunchy Space Moose comic that was posted in another thread.
2003-02-07 07:24:51 PM  
No Repeat. Should have been 'Followup'
2003-02-08 02:20:59 AM  
Ndn: email me.....
2003-02-08 03:03:06 AM  
Good to hear some people put their martial skill to good use!

I practice Hebei style Xing Yi Chuan mainly and some Wu style Tai Chi. Most people are not familiar with Xing Yi though is very informative if not 100% accurate (in my opinion).

Most people think of Tai Chi as this totally soft meditative kickypants business but actually Wu style has heavy emphasis on neutralizing your opponent and grappling, locks, etc., very martial.

I can't say enough good things about what Chinese internal (neija) arts have done for me. Excellent for the mind and body.

Strength and diligence to all fellow martial artists :)

Autopsybeverage, yes there are some more "sport" minded judo teams out there, but these guys were likely showing some restraint, which is a valuable skill in a situation like that. Who wants to deal with the cops or courts any more than you have to. If you must severely injure your opponent, you know your life or health is in jeopardy, then do so. If you're with a whole team of fighters, turning the guy into a vegetable isn't going to go well with a judge. Do you practice BJJ or any other martial art? Just curious.
2003-02-08 03:13:14 AM  

I have great respect for Wing Chun. I have seen Chi Sau before, it seems great for building sensitivity and timing. The Xing Yi equivalent would be the two man linking forms such as An Shen Pao, which I enjoy practicing. Like I said previously I also practice Wu style Tai Chi (from the same instructor) and I have recently learned the first movement of Twi Sau (sp? push hands).
2003-02-08 04:17:17 PM  
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