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(Independent)   CNN caves in to Israel: Illegal settlements are now "neighborhoods"   ( divider line
    More: Asinine  
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1476 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 Sep 2001 at 10:20 AM (16 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

104 Comments     (+0 »)

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2001-09-04 10:43:43 AM  
2001-09-04 10:45:52 AM  
oops little typo that would be "SOVEREIGN"
2001-09-04 10:50:48 AM  
Would you be referring to the "rights" of a "sovereign" nation (Israel) that only exists because it took land rightfully belonging to a true sovereign nation (Palestine) in 1948? What about the rights of the sovereign nation of Palestine, which occupied that land for 2000 years prior to the Zionist invasion?
2001-09-04 10:53:29 AM  
The land that was taken was unoccupied desert land. It was only after Israel deveoped the land did the Arabs want it back.
2001-09-04 10:56:40 AM  
Jabbo, you're arguing with someone who types in all caps. Do it like this:

2001-09-04 11:01:39 AM  
sorry bout the caps my sons been "helping" Me type
2001-09-04 11:02:43 AM  
methinks jabbo is a raghead
2001-09-04 11:03:48 AM  
It's hard to be consider that land spoils of war when most of the world refuses to see it that way, and world opinion does matter.
2001-09-04 11:12:14 AM  
Take ALL the land from Israel and Palastine, and give it to Saddam. He'll fix 'em!
2001-09-04 11:13:44 AM  

I'm not really a big fan of arabs, but the palestinians have my sympathy. They've had their land pretty much stolen from them. The israelis are cowardly hypocrites.

Some people are just convinced the world owes them something.

"give us land, because our efforts sucked during WW2 and we were too lazy, cowardly or stupid to pick up a gun and defend our families... sob sob.."

BTW -the "they only wanted it after we built on it" is crap.

Hey Lograin
, I bet I can afford to built a better home than yours on your front lawn, should I? Could I annex your house as my garage then?

Spoils of war indeed - the empty can always rattles the most.
2001-09-04 11:14:45 AM  
um,,, also the land in discussion here is the neighborhood of Gilo, which is certainly not an illegal settlement. It is on the outskirts of Jerusalem on Jewish soil. When you win a war, you win a war.
2001-09-04 11:15:20 AM  
These people were fighting before christ was born. They are still fighting. I say let's cut the shiat and just go at it. Resolve this ~2000 year old war once and for all.
2001-09-04 11:17:03 AM  
jabbo - you want to go back thousands of years , eh? Then lets discuss the oddity that the al acqsah mosque (sic) was built over the ruins of the Jewish Temple. Doesn't that seem kind of odd when "Palestinians have been there for 2000 years?" Another thing, you moron: Islam hasn't even been around for 2,000 years.
2001-09-04 11:17:38 AM  
It was not all undeveloped desert land!!! Palestinians were forced out of their homes and cities because Israel claimed that they had a right because it was written in a book.

The senseless slaughter that is going on with both sides is terrible no matter who they are.

Icono: Hard to imagine world opinion when a few superpowers get to gether and make up some rules.
2001-09-04 11:17:54 AM  
Palestine wasn't a "soveriegn nation," it was occupied by the British until given to form Israel.
2001-09-04 11:18:56 AM  
lordoftheflies: food for thought. What if your number, with whom you never provoked decided to send his children over to blow up yours. Would you then let him on your property.

Israel is dying for peace. Palestinian militant terrorists won't let it happen.
2001-09-04 11:19:36 AM  
2001-09-04 11:20:47 AM  
Some things to consider:

*50 years ago the land that is Israel was a waste land desert, now is a thriving farmland and developed nation. What happened to that area in the last 200 years, the farms, palaces, and cities?

*Israel has the guns, and could have wiped the Arabs out anytime they wanted - they are being nice.

*Israel wants to work it out, they tell Palestine - don't attack us or we will have to retaliate! What happens? Someone decides that they want to suicide bomb innocent people, so Israel has to fight back and takes out extremist groups.

*The Temple Mount is also the most holy spot for Jews and they have let it stay in Palestine hands. If that is not tolerance, I don't know what is!

Oh, well, just some points, that is my 2 cents!
2001-09-04 11:21:31 AM  
The level of debate here makes me yearn for armageddon.
2001-09-04 11:21:37 AM  
Jaxomlotus: Israel is dying for Peace?! Are you Mad? Didnt you watch in the news when they stated that for every Israeli citizen that is killed, 7 Palestinians will die!!... Striving for peace my ass.
2001-09-04 11:24:03 AM  
methinks jabbo is a raghead

Assuming raghead ~ nazi, I will invoke Godwin's law and end this thread here. favorited!.
2001-09-04 11:25:19 AM  
Israel has guns... why? We (US) gave them guns and military might. Not to mention the 800 Billion dollars of aid each year...

If I was told to get off my land because others were moving in I would put up a fight too.
2001-09-04 11:26:05 AM  
i think World War 3 is brewing and i think the Arab nations should leave well enough alone. Israel, the only democratic nation in the Middle East and the only nation that allows freedom of worship and religion to all, has the nuclear arsenal and good buddies to wipe out all of them.

Oh wait, maybe that's not true. Saddam did "knock out" an unmanned American drone in a glorious and brave triumph for Allah over the evil Western devils, didn't he?
2001-09-04 11:27:14 AM  
Israel has the guns, and could have wiped the Arabs out anytime they wanted - they are being nice.

You're right, that is very nice. We should send them a fruit basket with a card that says "Thanks for not committing genocide."
2001-09-04 11:31:42 AM  
The rest of the civilized world needs to develop a complete, total alternative to fossil fuels, so as to eliminate all dependance on Middle Eastern nations for oil and economic stability entirely.

At that point, the rest of the world should step back and say, "okay, you guys. Do whatever the fuck you want. You have nothing of value, nothing useful to contribute to anyone else, and your retarded politics are too fucked up for anyone but yourselves to keep up with. Commence with the killing of each other, and don't forget... you can't grow food in SAND. Be nice to us and maybe we'll send you aid. Maybe not."
2001-09-04 11:34:41 AM  
MattyJ: No one asked Palestinians to throw rocks and fire at soldiers wearing Kevlar. Of course the number will be lopsided. Let's also not to forget to remove all sucicide bombers from the total number (70) as it's not really fair to blame Israel for those Palestinian deaths (though the PA has tried). Let's look at the numbers in terms of civilians for civilians killed.

Israel: 90% of all killed since the intifada have been civilians NOT involved in fighting (i.e. ordering a pizza).

Palestinians: 90% of all killed have been directly involved or indirectly (ordering terrorists to strike and assasinated) when they were killed.

Of course there have been innocents killed on both sides. I won't remind anyone that Palestinian snipers shot a 4-month-old baby in her stroller intentionally and that when any Palestinian children have been killed it's because they were with their parents on the front lines (why the hell would parents bring children to a protest??!?!).

The only exception is when Israeli rockets aimed at a terrorist accidentally killed a couple of children bystanders....keyword being accidentally.

Do the math and figure out who the victim is.
2001-09-04 11:35:05 AM  

Do you have a clue? Isreal is the only democracy in the middle east! If you are so bothered by the aid and guns going there then start a legal champain and write lettes and stop it. Unless you think that going to washington and suicide bombing the congress, or maybe some innocent cafe somewhere that will get your idea across.

The funny thing about North Americans, is we are all so damn complacent. Really, as long as we are comfy, full, and entertained, we really don't give a crap - except to air our uninformed and extremely biased opinions on some slacker chat area.

As a side note, No one really lived in Israel, it was a desert wasteland - are we not getting that?
2001-09-04 11:35:20 AM  
If we eliminated religion from the equation, how much warring would really be going on in the Middle East?

Just a thought. Praise Allah, etc.
2001-09-04 11:36:49 AM  

Let Canada, Mexico and Puerto Rico attack us on all sides and we'll see how hesitant the US is to use guns.
2001-09-04 11:38:24 AM  
Demos - None. That's why Israel is and always has been the hotspot of the world. It's the number 1 holy spot for Jews - the number 1 holy spot for Chirstians and the number 3 holy spot for Arabs.
2001-09-04 11:39:40 AM  
Preempting the trolls, I'm white, English and an Atheist..

Palestine was a country within the British empire - we and the Americans annexed half their country and gave it to the Jews as somewhere to start over. All well meaning, I'm sure, but it just created a new injustice for the Palestinians. However, at that point the fault was ours, not the Israelis. However, in 1967 they lost all moral superiority when they invaded more of Palestine at took more of what little of their nation was left.

Despite that the United Nations declared this illegal (Must as Germany invading Poland was illegal), the American have effectively supported Israels occupation of Palestine, encouraging hatred of the west and division in the Middle East. If only America had the guts to say 'No, you were wrong - go back to your original boundaries or we'll stop arming you', 90% of these troubles could be sorted.
2001-09-04 11:39:41 AM  
Makes you kind of wonder what God thinks of all his children fighting. I'm sure there is a warm spot in "heaven" for them all.
2001-09-04 11:43:40 AM  
Mungo - Israel didn't invade Palestine. Israel did invade Syria and Lebanon after they attacked from key strategic points. The occupation was a defensive maneuver - not offensive and the purpose was to prevent any more mortars from being fired on settlements.

Another point: NO arabs were ever expelled from Israel during the wars and declaration of a democratic state. The Arabs' exodus was at their own choice and the other Arab nations wouldn't even absorb them. Palestinians were expelled from jordan and Syria and didn't have the same rights. Of course the other Arab nations want the Palestinians to have thier own state. it's so they wont have to deal with them.
2001-09-04 11:43:46 AM  
Holy Wars (D. Mustaine)

Brother will kill brother
Spilling blood across the land
Killing for religion
Something I don't understand
Fools like me,who cross the sea
And come to foreign lands
Ask the sheep, for their beliefs
Do you kill on God's command?

A country that's divided
Surely will not stand
My past erased, no more disgrace
No foolish naive stand

The end is near, it's crystal clear
Part of the master plan
Don't look now to Israel
It might be your homelands

Holy wars

Upon my podium, as the
Know it all scholar
Down in my seat of judgement
Gavel's bang,uphold the law
Up on my soapbox, a leader
Out to change the world
Down in my pulpit as the holler
Than-thou-could-be-messenger of God
2001-09-04 11:45:56 AM  
Jaxomlotus, if we wait for Canada, Puerto Rico, or Mexico to attack us, our guns will just rust away. It's time for action. Invade now!

On a different note, I think it's time the US press gave Sharon credit for his heroism at Sabra and Shatilla. It's something you hardly ever hear about.
2001-09-04 11:48:48 AM  
Demos, I doubt it's really a religious conflict. I know Palestinians who move into Jewish neighborhoods on purpose, because they like them as neighbors. The Middle East conflict is an old fashioned turf war with religious overtones. At least I think so.
2001-09-04 11:49:51 AM  
Boorite -read the Arab presses and you'll read plenty about it. Similarly let's give Yasir Arafat for his leadership of a terrorist organization into the 1980s prior to his expulsion.

Don't see what that has to do with the crisis at hand though. Sharon and Arafat are supposed to be brokering peace - not looking at each other's careers.
2001-09-04 11:50:34 AM  
Boorite - I don't think people would blow themsleves up over turf. That's 100% religious.
2001-09-04 11:51:34 AM  
Remove religion, and the land will be seen as it is: an arid wasteland that requires immense irrigation in order to grow even 1/8th of the food the population in the region needs to survive. Nothing is "sacred" about the place, outside of religion. We might just as well be fighting over Death Valley in Nevada/California. Doing so would seem rather silly, wouldn't it?
2001-09-04 11:59:40 AM  
Israelis are the big assholes of world history. Every civilzation they have encountered have beat the shiat out of them and opressed them; Egyptians, Sumerians, Babylonians, Persians, Romans, Europeans...I mean, all these people can't be wrong...And the ONE civilization that has historically been tolerant to Israelis, and you know who I'm talking about, is getting shiat on for their troubles. Thats what you get for helping a brother out, I guess.
Oh, and Zionism is, by definition, rascist.
2001-09-04 12:00:01 PM  
Demos - while I will agree that Jerusalem is very arid, (and given that it's the centerpoint of disagreement - the rest of Israel would hardly matter) the rest of Isral has many lush, tropical areas and was a major tourist spot (Eilat, Haifa, En Gedi) before the fighting began again.

Having spent a year of my life studying there recently I can assure you it's quite beautiful. Not that I have a point - you're right...the fighting is still about religion. But I am concerned with the language that many nations (i.e. Fidel Castro in Cuba) have adopted, referring to the conflict as a Plestinian "genocide."

That's just dumb. It's a shame the Arab nations had to ruin the Durban conference by using it's forum as a propaganda machine.
2001-09-04 12:03:14 PM  
Goyafood...trolling is unacceptable.
2001-09-04 12:03:14 PM  
Israel is dying for Peace...Israeli rockets aimed at a terrorist accidentally killed a couple of children bystanders...When you win a war, you win a war...your number, with whom you never provoked decided to send his children over to blow up yours. Would you then let him on your property. ...

Where to start... how about WTF? maybe the jewish owned media has put a good spin on the news stories you've seen. But yids have been assassinating arabs in palenstine for weeks now (and any children that get caught in the shrapnel). If that's not terrorism to you I don't know what is.

I'm sorry you just didn't try to say the jews won a war did you? Uh, I'm not sure how you define 'winner'... I mean they got world sympathy and part of the palenstinians land more by decree (which many nations, and I personally in case you didn't guess, recognize as legitimate).

As for your "what if your neighbours" scenario. You're either talking about the nazi's or palestinians (sometimes I wonder if jews' know the difference -christ anyone disagrees with them they start seeing nazis under their beds) - but that's another tirade.

Sure, I'd let them over. But they'd leave in a bodybag. I wouldn't flee leaving my children or old people to be stuffed into ovens like pilsbury goodies. When it comes to my family I don't even need to think about it, I would certainly die to protect them. No man could do more, no one calling himself a man could do less. But what's your point?
2001-09-04 12:05:17 PM  
Jax -- very true, there are some rather nice areas in Israel... but not nice enough to spark a major war over.

I think both sides on this conflict are farked. I say let them kill each other and let the rest of the world switch over to grain alcohol for replacing petroleum in internal combustion engines. Fark 'em.
2001-09-04 12:08:02 PM  
an arid wasteland that requires immense irrigation in order to grow even 1/8th of the food the population in the region needs to survive.

Say, thanks for reminding me-- I gotta book a flight to Phoenix for Thanksgiving.

But seriously, Demos, Bedouins have been grazing sheep all over the West Bank for millenia. Right now the area supports something like 175,000 sheep for the Bedouins alone. The Jordan valley is quite fertile and rich. That's why they're fighting over it.
2001-09-04 12:09:48 PM  
Wether or not the land is illegal property or not, I dont think anyone should control what CNN wants to say, yes the military does it all the time, but its OUR military. If the ragheads dont like it, they can bite our asses its our news.
2001-09-04 12:10:09 PM  
LordofFlies - i think I've heard enough and I'm glad that you're true opinion of Jews came out so that it could demean your previous statement.
2001-09-04 12:14:42 PM  
Why am I even posting to a thread containing the word "raghead?" I should've listened to FlakeLoaf and plonked out.
2001-09-04 12:16:39 PM  

Whatever dude, yeah I'm sure you offended and hurt. Go home and lick your wounds or maybe launch an antidefamation suit. The world owes you something -sure it does.

Your arguements are weak -bordering on non-existant. period.

[image from too old to be available]
What me worry?
2001-09-04 12:20:20 PM  
boorite - I'm agreeing with you. *plonk* I'm out too.
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