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(Huffington Post)   A map of the potential high-speed rail lines to be built by stimulus. Where can Subby get a Northamerapass, Amerapass, Speedopass, whatever the equivalent of a Europass is?   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line
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24134 clicks; posted to Main » on 19 Feb 2009 at 4:28 PM (13 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



407 Comments     (+0 »)
 
2009-02-19 2:10:10 PM  
Federal MultiPass

elizabethcarroll.files.wordpress.comView Full Size
 
2009-02-19 2:11:40 PM  
that was quick gary, you have that one on speed dial?

/wanted to post the multipass pic
 
2009-02-19 2:13:16 PM  

haws83: that was quick gary, you have that one on speed dial?

/wanted to post the multipass pic


Just quick on the GIS..:) I'm surprised Subby didn't have that one lined up.
 
2009-02-19 2:18:27 PM  
Here's a better image of the map: Link (new window)

They should really work on interconnecting everything, rather than six separate systems.
 
2009-02-19 2:26:22 PM  
Sounds like Subby wants to take a tour, and I don't think that's what high speed rail is about.
 
2009-02-19 2:28:06 PM  
that is a huge amount of disconnected FAIL.
 
2009-02-19 2:30:43 PM  
Please please please build Boston-Montreal first!
 
2009-02-19 2:35:28 PM  
Please please please build Boston-Montreal first!

Agreed.
 
2009-02-19 2:38:29 PM  
(a) Why is there that little gap disconnecting Florida from the rest of the east coast?
(b) Why is this from 2001?
 
2009-02-19 2:42:23 PM  

Shostie: They should really work on interconnecting everything, rather than six separate systems.


Seriously, is Pittsburgh to Cleveland, Houston to Austin, and Kansas City to Tulsa really that hard?
 
2009-02-19 2:43:01 PM  

mattharvest: Why is there that little gap disconnecting Florida from the rest of the east coast?


A first step to a better America?
 
2009-02-19 2:44:40 PM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: mattharvest: Why is there that little gap disconnecting Florida from the rest of the east coast?

A first step to a better America?


No eating the low-hanging fruit.

Seriously though, why have that gap? It just seems bizarre.
 
2009-02-19 2:44:47 PM  
Why not connect Tulsa and Little Rock to Kansas City, Cleveland to Pittsburg and Orlando and Tampa to Jacksonville?
 
2009-02-19 2:45:56 PM  

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: mattharvest: Why is there that little gap disconnecting Florida from the rest of the east coast?

A first step to a better America?


I lol'd!
 
2009-02-19 2:46:45 PM  
Why not connect the Texas rail with the south eastern one? Either this is really awesome.
 
2009-02-19 2:47:29 PM  
If they could actually pull this off with actual high spped rail, and make it affordable I would definitely be interested by being able to travel to Chicago quickly and cheaply.

And if they actually connected more of those lines it would make for another option to traveling to Florida. It can't be that hard to update existing lines to the high speed and connect the dots?
 
2009-02-19 2:48:27 PM  

mattharvest: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: mattharvest: Why is there that little gap disconnecting Florida from the rest of the east coast?

A first step to a better America?

No eating the low-hanging fruit.

Seriously though, why have that gap? It just seems bizarre.


Government doesn't have the right-of-way and doesn't intend to purchase it?
 
2009-02-19 2:50:01 PM  
It's about time. That being said, the TSA will probably screw it up.
 
2009-02-19 2:51:26 PM  

PurplePimpSaber: mattharvest: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: mattharvest: Why is there that little gap disconnecting Florida from the rest of the east coast?

A first step to a better America?

No eating the low-hanging fruit.

Seriously though, why have that gap? It just seems bizarre.

Government doesn't have the right-of-way and doesn't intend to purchase it?


I was just thinking that this may be "Phase 1" of the project, which would lead to more interconnection later on.
 
2009-02-19 2:53:49 PM  
Just another way that tax dollars are going to be wasted. Notice how every state that voted for Obama is getting the rail system, where is the central states are being left out once again in the dark.
 
2009-02-19 2:54:17 PM  

Shostie: Here's a better image of the map: Link (new window)

They should really work on interconnecting everything, rather than six separate systems.


We already have Amtrak between Portland and Seattle. If they knock off a half hour, I'd be gobsmacked. That train is already pretty fast. So I say, WE DON'T NEED THIS SHIAT RIGHT NOW and WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY. But, what the hell. I won't be around when the Zombie Apocalypse begins.
 
2009-02-19 2:55:43 PM  
Shostie: Here's a better image of the map: Link (new window)

Am I the only one who finds it odd that all of the cities are where they're supposed to be except for Houston, which is about 100 miles too far inland?

/yeah, probably...
 
2009-02-19 2:56:06 PM  

trouzourt: Just another way that tax dollars are going to be wasted. Notice how every state that voted for Obama is getting the rail system, where is the central states are being left out once again in the dark.


Did Texas and GA go for Obama? I didn't think they did and they are getting a part of it. They are focusing where there are actually, well, people. And it's not like there wouldn't be regular rail lines that would connect to the high speed lines.
 
2009-02-19 2:56:48 PM  

PurplePimpSaber: mattharvest: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: mattharvest: Why is there that little gap disconnecting Florida from the rest of the east coast?

A first step to a better America?

No eating the low-hanging fruit.

Seriously though, why have that gap? It just seems bizarre.

Government doesn't have the right-of-way and doesn't intend to purchase it?


Have you seen how cheaply eminent domain can be used?
 
2009-02-19 2:58:38 PM  

trouzourt: Just another way that tax dollars are going to be wasted. Notice how every state that voted for Obama is getting the rail system, where is the central states are being left out once again in the dark.


You're not really familiar with the purpose of high-speed rail, are you?

The concept is that you put rail in between destinations that people are prone to travel between, not any destination you want. Far more people travel to-from Washington, D.C./New York than, say, a random city in the mid-west and another random city in the north-west.
 
2009-02-19 2:58:38 PM  

mattharvest: PurplePimpSaber: mattharvest: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: mattharvest: Why is there that little gap disconnecting Florida from the rest of the east coast?

A first step to a better America?

No eating the low-hanging fruit.

Seriously though, why have that gap? It just seems bizarre.

Government doesn't have the right-of-way and doesn't intend to purchase it?

Have you seen how cheaply eminent domain can be used?


Still, to connect all of those systems will require thousands of miles of easements. Will get quite costly.
 
2009-02-19 2:59:03 PM  

timujin: Shostie: Here's a better image of the map: Link (new window)

Am I the only one who finds it odd that all of the cities are where they're supposed to be except for Houston, which is about 100 miles too far inland?

/yeah, probably...


I noticed that, too. I haven't heard anything on the news about moving the city, so...
 
2009-02-19 3:00:05 PM  
Sacramento to Reno to Salt Lake to Denver to Kansas City wouldn't be a horrible idea, neither is San Diego to Albuquerque to some God-awful place in West Texas to Dallas.
 
2009-02-19 3:02:20 PM  

PurplePimpSaber: Still, to connect all of those systems will require thousands of miles of easements. Will get quite costly.


Not necessarily. There are still many rail lines that would connect those destinations. They may need to expand or repurpose some of those tracks to handle passenger traffic.
 
jbc [TotalFark]
2009-02-19 3:03:01 PM  

GaryGWB: WE DON'T NEED THIS SHIAT RIGHT NOW and WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY.


That didn't stop you from your chronic warmongering for Iraq.
 
2009-02-19 3:08:21 PM  
PurplePimpSaber: Still, to connect all of those systems will require thousands of miles of easements. Will get quite costly.

Probably not. The Acela runs on the same right of way as the regular Amtrak trains. They did need to rework the railbeds for high speed, and put up catenaries for the electric locomotives. But there's no need to acquire more right of way, but there are thousands of miles of track to upgrade.

The whole thing from DC to Boston only runs at full speed between Boston and Providence, and no faster than the NYC commuter trains from western Connecticut to NYC. A bypass of NY is needed, maybe with a spur coming into Manhattan from Jersey.
 
2009-02-19 3:08:58 PM  

mattharvest: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: mattharvest: Why is there that little gap disconnecting Florida from the rest of the east coast?

A first step to a better America?

No eating the low-hanging fruit.

Seriously though, why have that gap? It just seems bizarre.


Florida was going to do their own high speed rail (clicky (new window) (pops)). Maybe that's the reason?
 
2009-02-19 3:10:59 PM  
Why the hell are there so many gaps? Connect the dots guys and make it viable.
 
2009-02-19 3:11:18 PM  

darkrose: Florida was going to do their own high speed rail (clicky (new window) (pops)). Maybe that's the reason?


Now that's an interested explanation, given that this map is apparently (from the article) from 2001.
 
2009-02-19 3:12:03 PM  
They need to connect some of the dots. A few extra thousand miles of rail would be a drop in the bucket.
 
2009-02-19 3:13:59 PM  
No L.A. to Vegas train??!!
 
2009-02-19 3:16:30 PM  

RocketRod: Vegas


Came in to say this

I think this map is old
 
2009-02-19 3:16:54 PM  

mattharvest: darkrose: Florida was going to do their own high speed rail (clicky (new window) (pops)). Maybe that's the reason?

Now that's an interested explanation, given that this map is apparently (from the article) from 2001.


Where are you getting 2001 from? The date in the lower right corner of the map says October 2005.
 
2009-02-19 3:17:32 PM  
[image from griffindor.org.uk too old to be available]
 
2009-02-19 3:23:31 PM  

aevert: Where are you getting 2001 from? The date in the lower right corner of the map says October 2005.


I'm getting it from a mistake: earlier in this thread, a link was posted to the higher-resolution version of this image that dates from 2001, as opposed to the version in the Huffington Post story that is dated to 2005. The only difference is a small connection between Albany and Boston.
 
2009-02-19 3:39:26 PM  

mattharvest: I'm getting it from a mistake: earlier in this thread, a link was posted to the higher-resolution version of this image that dates from 2001, as opposed to the version in the Huffington Post story that is dated to 2005. The only difference is a small connection between Albany and Boston.


My bad, then. That was the first one I found that was readable.
 
2009-02-19 3:43:57 PM  
mattharvest
trouzourt: ....

You're not really familiar with the purpose of high-speed rail, are you?

The concept is that you put rail in between destinations that people are prone to travel between, not any destination you want. Far more people travel to-from Washington, D.C./New York than, say, a random city in the mid-west and another random city in the north-west.


Look at the unemployment rates in those "random" cities. If there is a viable option for labor and business to move there, why would they not take it? this rail system could have created a new boom for the central states.. but Because of the way they voted they are getting punished. thats change we can believe in.
 
2009-02-19 3:46:44 PM  
This does sound good, but it also sounds like wishful thinking.

I thought the LA-Vegas HSR line was Harry Reid's Baby? I remember reading about it being in the package.

In Jersey we've been asking for the MOM NJ Transit line for over 20 years and all they've done is one study after another after another and nothing. The plan relies on using an existing freight line where they don't even have to buy land and still nothing.
 
2009-02-19 3:49:14 PM  

trouzourt: Look at the unemployment rates in those "random" cities. If there is a viable option for labor and business to move there, why would they not take it? this rail system could have created a new boom for the central states.. but Because of the way they voted they are getting punished. thats change we can believe in.


It's bizarre that you think this is "because of the way they voted", when there's absolutely no evidence for it. What on earth does the unemployment rate in any of those cities have to do with their votes, or whether a train should go there?

If you look at the history of the railroads in the past, they don't create booms at all: they reflect other booms due to different industrial factors.

You're just spouting hate-filled nonsense and infusing the discussion with completely unnecessary political vitriol.
 
2009-02-19 3:53:12 PM  

ThrnPhl: Please please please build Boston-Montreal first!

Agreed.


I thirded.

But Montreal *is* in a different country....
 
2009-02-19 3:55:43 PM  

trouzourt: this rail system could have created a new boom for the central states.. but Because of the way they voted they are getting punished. thats change we can believe in.


You...are kidding right? You *REALLY* think we should build a high speed rail from North Dakota to Wyoming?

Also...did you notice that Texas, Oklahoma, Georgia, South Carolina, Louisiana, Alabama and Tennessee are included? None of these states voted for Obama.

FAIL.
 
2009-02-19 4:01:36 PM  

what_now: Also...did you notice that Texas, Oklahoma, Georgia, South Carolina, Louisiana, Alabama and Tennessee are included?


Tennessee isn't in there, which seems odd considering Chattanooga, Knoxville, Nashville and Memphis are pretty good sized cities, and could easily connect Little Rock to Charlotte, and hence connect the TX rail lines with the East Cost.

/hopes this happens
 
2009-02-19 4:07:42 PM  
If you think any of these will ever be built I have a bridge to sell you.
 
2009-02-19 4:09:36 PM  
Kansas and Kansas City should be the headquarters and central hub for the whole system, with all lines radiating out from there. Then again I'm from Kansas and Kansas City and may be a little biased.
 
2009-02-19 4:14:45 PM  
Oh, the government is in charge? Then you can expect the trains to be high cost/low speed, and look something like this:

epyon-1.comView Full Size
 
2009-02-19 4:15:34 PM  
mattharvest
It's bizarre that you think this is "because of the way they voted", when there's absolutely no evidence for it. What on earth does the unemployment rate in any of those cities have to do with their votes, or whether a train should go there?

Kansas Voted for McCain by 57%
Unemployment rate Kansas 5.2
and now look at the image where the rail is going. it stops dead at Kansas...

images.huffingtonpost.comView Full Size


Now look at the unemployment rate for say


Its sad that when people said Bush didn't care about Black people it was all OK , but when someone says Obama is punishing the voters im suddenly a troll.
 
2009-02-19 4:20:44 PM  
mitchcumstein1
Kansas and Kansas City should be the headquarters and central hub for the whole system, with all lines radiating out from there. Then again I'm from Kansas and Kansas City and may be a little biased.


thats Exactly my point. Sadly however, you guys voted for MacCain.
Maybe in 2012...
 
2009-02-19 4:22:48 PM  
Seeing as how passenger rail in the U.S. is already heavily subsidized with public money, in what universe is this a good idea?
 
2009-02-19 4:23:45 PM  

trouzourt: Its sad that when people said Bush didn't care about Black people it was all OK , but when someone says Obama is punishing the voters im suddenly a troll.


Yes, it has nothing to do with population density...

i35.photobucket.comView Full Size
 
2009-02-19 4:26:25 PM  

trouzourt: mitchcumstein1
Kansas and Kansas City should be the headquarters and central hub for the whole system, with all lines radiating out from there. Then again I'm from Kansas and Kansas City and may be a little biased.

thats Exactly my point. Sadly however, you guys voted for MacCain.
Maybe in 2012...


you're not very bright, are you.
 
2009-02-19 4:32:37 PM  
The California rail is not being built by stimulus money, at least as far as I know. CA voters approved this one(20billion in bonds) in november.
 
2009-02-19 4:33:12 PM  
Doesn't this all seem a bit counter-intuitive that in the middle of the deepest recession in 30 years, all this money is being spent on all of these stimulus bills and projects?

Like "Hey, as a nation we're broke - let's spend our way out of it until it turns around?". I'm not economist, so really I have NO friggin' idea if I'm even close to the mark...
 
2009-02-19 4:35:05 PM  
submitter, you're an idiot. You're yet another kool-aid drinking Obama fanboy.

That's a map of high speed rail corridors. The amount infrastructure money in the stimulus is far, far lower than normal infrastructure spending in a given year (for example, the 2005 transportation bill was around $300 billion). There's no way all those nice rail lines are going to get built for the relatively teeny amount of money thrown at it.
 
2009-02-19 4:36:09 PM  
further proof that dallas officially sucks
 
2009-02-19 4:36:26 PM  
Why is there no LA to Vegas line yet? Just build it right in the middle of the I-15 freeway, there's like 100' between lanes. Then charge $40 each way.
 
2009-02-19 4:36:28 PM  
Florida voters passed a constitutional amendment to build a state high spreed rail between Tampa, Orlando, Jacksonville, and Miami. Former governor Jeb Bush ignored it, then lobbied to get another amendment passed by claiming FL couldn't afford it.

Thought it was a great idea myself, especially to cut back traffic on I-4 & I-95, create more jobs, etc.

/Stupid Jeb.
 
2009-02-19 4:36:55 PM  
Shostie: They should really work on interconnecting everything, rather than six separate systems.

They'll probably get to that during Obama's third term.
 
2009-02-19 4:37:03 PM  

PurplePimpSaber: Still, to connect all of those systems will require thousands of miles of easements. Will get quite costly.


That's the easy part; we just print more money!
 
2009-02-19 4:37:10 PM  
some may say this isn't a good idea, but they are wrong.
this will help stimulate tourism, give people an alternative to the farking airlines, and get the united states up to date with other first world countries.
 
2009-02-19 4:37:14 PM  

alywa: Tennessee isn't in there,


Ohh...my bad.
 
2009-02-19 4:37:23 PM  

Beatle_Matt: Doesn't this all seem a bit counter-intuitive that in the middle of the deepest recession in 30 years, all this money is being spent on all of these stimulus bills and projects?

Like "Hey, as a nation we're broke - let's spend our way out of it until it turns around?". I'm not economist, so really I have NO friggin' idea if I'm even close to the mark...


um... you're not.

you might want to look up a thing called the new deal. (new window)
 
2009-02-19 4:37:45 PM  

RobertBruce: that is a huge amount of disconnected FAIL.


But at least it will be expensive
 
2009-02-19 4:37:49 PM  

Walker: If you think any of these will ever be built I have a bridge to sell you.


$8 billion might be enough to build the line from Alexandria VA to Washington DC, but that's doubtful.
 
2009-02-19 4:39:29 PM  
Well, I see they solved the problem of right-of-way easements in the Raleigh area by moving Raleigh to Rocky Mount.

/an elegant solution!
//even if Rocky Mount is an eastern NC version of Durham
 
2009-02-19 4:39:36 PM  
No trains from NY to Paris? (I thought it only took 90 minutes)
and nothing from LA to Hawaii?

/Come on...how daring are we willing to get?
 
2009-02-19 4:39:42 PM  

Beatle_Matt: Doesn't this all seem a bit counter-intuitive that in the middle of the deepest recession in 30 years, all this money is being spent on all of these stimulus bills and projects?

Like "Hey, as a nation we're broke - let's spend our way out of it until it turns around?". I'm not economist, so really I have NO friggin' idea if I'm even close to the mark...


Correct!

Ever heard of the new deal? Repairing existing infrastructure and creating new technologies costs money yes, but usually it generates far more in the form of jobs, goods and services.

If you have 5 million unemployed people in your country, you can put a significant number of them to work on these "wasteful spending" projects
 
2009-02-19 4:39:53 PM  
Nobody else wondering why South Central is so far away from LA?
 
2009-02-19 4:39:56 PM  
also, there needs to be a link between jacksonville and orlando as well as jackonville to mobile AL. florida and a lot of other flat land states are ideal for projects such as this. why they arn't planning on connecting floirda right now is kind of bizare considering how many people from the rest of the country would use this to come to florida to vacation.
 
2009-02-19 4:39:58 PM  
That is badass. Now, just get them built and then connect them. Eugene to Sacramento, San Diego to Dallas, Little Rock to St. Louis...I wonder how long all this will take. 20 years? 50 years?
 
2009-02-19 4:40:11 PM  

Beatle_Matt: Like "Hey, as a nation we're broke - let's spend our way out of it until it turns around?". I'm not economist, so really I have NO friggin' idea if I'm even close to the mark...


The New Deal was a series of spending packages, and it got us out of the depression. Spending money on public works 1) creates jobs and B) creates nifty things like trains and bridges and electricity in Tennessee.
 
2009-02-19 4:40:16 PM  
High speed trains in New England? Yeah, good luck with that....
 
2009-02-19 4:40:47 PM  

what_now: trouzourt: this rail system could have created a new boom for the central states.. but Because of the way they voted they are getting punished. thats change we can believe in.

You...are kidding right? You *REALLY* think we should build a high speed rail from North Dakota to Wyoming?

Also...did you notice that Texas, Oklahoma, Georgia, South Carolina, Louisiana, Alabama and Tennessee are included? None of these states voted for Obama.

FAIL.

look at the map.... Tennessee is being avoided like a turd in the swimming pool. Tracks surrounding us on 3 sides but no trains for TN. an Atlanta - Nashville - Louisiville run makes a lot of sense and connects two seperate systens together to boot.
 
2009-02-19 4:40:47 PM  
Europass???
 
2009-02-19 4:40:49 PM  

bhcompy: The California rail is not being built by stimulus money, at least as far as I know. CA voters approved this one(20billion in bonds) in november.


So if the CA one is going to cost at least 20 billion...I doubt that 8 billion will get much except for some pretty blueprints.
 
2009-02-19 4:40:50 PM  
I thought the LA to Las Vegas high speed rail would also allow them to move to move the main airport 30 miles out of the city?
 
2009-02-19 4:40:53 PM  

DrillSergeantPoopyPants: Oh, the government is in charge? Then you can expect the trains to be high cost/low speed, and look something like this:


Your fail is awesome.
 
2009-02-19 4:40:54 PM  
Brilliant group of non connected regional systems. I suggest that they be built in different rail gauges so as to make interlinking impossible.

Stopping the NE cluster in Jax is f'ing retarded.
 
2009-02-19 4:41:00 PM  
Link (new window)
See where the rest of the stimulus money is going state by state. Fun for the whole family..
 
2009-02-19 4:41:07 PM  
Is there any way in hell that $8 billion would cover this?
 
2009-02-19 4:41:14 PM  
: Walker: If you think any of these will ever be built I have a bridge to sell you.

Is it in alaska?
 
2009-02-19 4:41:22 PM  
I think it's absurd that this plan doesn't include a Vegas-SoCal line.
 
2009-02-19 4:41:52 PM  

trouzourt: Just another way that tax dollars are going to be wasted. Notice how every state that voted for Obama is getting the rail system, where is the central states are being left out once again in the dark.


You're just plain wrong, I'm out here in Colorado (where Obama won handily), we aren't getting any high speed rail here... Georgia, Alabama, and Mississippi are all getting part of this project. I mean, I'll give you a 2/10 for the partisan effort, but for being so contrary to reality, and your failure to use the term "libtard," I can't really give you more than that.
 
2009-02-19 4:41:55 PM  

Diadem: High speed trains in New England? Yeah, good luck with that....


Just don't try to run 'em underground.
 
2009-02-19 4:41:58 PM  

bwogle:
look at the map.... Tennessee is being avoided like a turd in the swimming pool. Tracks surrounding us on 3 sides but no trains for TN. an Atlanta - Nashville - Louisiville run makes a lot of sense and connects two seperate systens together to boot.


Yeah- I screwed that up. In my defense, I live in New England so anything further south than NYC or further West than DC is just....that part.
 
2009-02-19 4:42:06 PM  
So, will there be some sort of method for me to ferry my car from Minneapolis to Detroit, so I can drive the rest of the way up to Standish?

That would be sweet.
 
2009-02-19 4:42:12 PM  
For those wishing they would connect everything...

These aren't going to be new rail lines, just upgrades to existing lines to allow for higher running speeds. The gaps are the sections that won't be getting the high-speed upgrades right away.
 
2009-02-19 4:42:31 PM  
All I need is a high-speed rail between Chicago and New York. Come on Obama, don't let me down!
 
2009-02-19 4:43:05 PM  
Any idea how fast it is exactly? Say New York to Boston? its nearly 5 hours on the amtrak.
 
2009-02-19 4:43:27 PM  
Sweet, this will put us on the map, just like Ogdenville, North Haverbrook, and Brockway!
 
2009-02-19 4:44:02 PM  

trouzourt: mattharvest
It's bizarre that you think this is "because of the way they voted", when there's absolutely no evidence for it. What on earth does the unemployment rate in any of those cities have to do with their votes, or whether a train should go there?

Kansas Voted for McCain by 57%
Unemployment rate Kansas 5.2
and now look at the image where the rail is going. it stops dead at Kansas...

Now look at the unemployment rate for say


Its sad that when people said Bush didn't care about Black people it was all OK , but when someone says Obama is punishing the voters im suddenly a troll.


Oklahoma voted overwhelmingly for McCain, as did Texas, Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia yet they have lines... the pattern you are looking for is non-existant.. states like Colorado and New Mexico, which went for Obama are not getting lines either.
 
2009-02-19 4:44:27 PM  

wage0048: So, will there be some sort of method for me to ferry my car from Minneapolis to Detroit, so I can drive the rest of the way up to Standish?

That would be sweet.


Well, there is the Badger (new window) and the Lake Express (new window).
 
2009-02-19 4:44:27 PM  

GaryPDX: Shostie: Here's a better image of the map: Link (new window)

They should really work on interconnecting everything, rather than six separate systems.

We already have Amtrak between Portland and Seattle. If they knock off a half hour, I'd be gobsmacked. That train is already pretty fast. So I say, WE DON'T NEED THIS SHIAT RIGHT NOW and WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY. But, what the hell. I won't be around when the Zombie Apocalypse begins.


YOU may not need it up in the northwest, where the towns grew around the rail lines; in the heavily congested areas of the country -- where most of the people actually live, most of the jobs are, and most of the car and rail traffic is -- those lines represent a MUCH needed relief from endless traffic snarls.
 
2009-02-19 4:44:37 PM  

FlashHarry: you might want to look up a thing called the new deal.


Roosevelt also put several million working-age, able-bodied men to work killing Japs and Krauts.
 
2009-02-19 4:44:47 PM  
To this I say, LOL.

Never going to happen. Even when they build high speed lines they are forced to run them at half speed because the communities it runs through don't like the noise or some such bullshiat.

It would be cool though.
 
2009-02-19 4:45:00 PM  
No need to fill the gaps right now.
 
2009-02-19 4:45:07 PM  

PurplePimpSaber: mattharvest: PurplePimpSaber: mattharvest: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: mattharvest: Why is there that little gap disconnecting Florida from the rest of the east coast?

A first step to a better America?

No eating the low-hanging fruit.

Seriously though, why have that gap? It just seems bizarre.

Government doesn't have the right-of-way and doesn't intend to purchase it?

Have you seen how cheaply eminent domain can be used?

Still, to connect all of those systems will require thousands of miles of easements. Will get quite costly.


Hardly even a blip in the cost of actually building it.

There are a lot of things that would make for a difficult eminent domain case, I've seen it used for things like stripmalls, hotels, and golf courses. A High-Speed Rail line would be EXACTLY the things that eminent domain should be used for.
 
2009-02-19 4:45:08 PM  
alywa:
This is what I was going to post. Notice that there is a St. Louis to Kansas City route. Notice also that's the last population center until Denver.

/Also I believe Missouri ended up as a McCain State
 
2009-02-19 4:45:11 PM  

Shostie: Here's a better image of the map: Link (new window)

They should really work on interconnecting everything, rather than six separate systems.


Pick the low-hanging fruit first.

There's an upper limit to the distance you want to travel by train (and I say that as someone who utterly loves the European fast trains) - so you connect the cities where you can compete reasonably with short-hop planes.

Perhaps night trains can come back in vogue. That's civilized travel, kiddies.
 
2009-02-19 4:45:29 PM  
img25.imageshack.usView Full Size


The problem with public transportation, is that it is full of black people.
 
2009-02-19 4:45:31 PM  
Awwww - the Texas part looks cute.
 
2009-02-19 4:45:49 PM  

what_now: The New Deal was a series of spending packages, and it got us out of deeper into the depression. Spending money on public works 1) creates jobs and B) creates nifty things like trains and bridges and electricity in Tennessee.


World War II got us out.
 
2009-02-19 4:46:07 PM  

AirForceVet: Florida voters passed a constitutional amendment to build a state high spreed rail between Tampa, Orlando, Jacksonville, and Miami. Former governor Jeb Bush ignored it, then lobbied to get another amendment passed by claiming FL couldn't afford it.

Thought it was a great idea myself, especially to cut back traffic on I-4 & I-95, create more jobs, etc.

/Stupid Jeb.


Wasn't the problem that Disney didn't want it to stop anywhere in Orlando except Disney? I thought that was a major issue as well.
 
2009-02-19 4:46:11 PM  

GoSurfing: FlashHarry

"you might want to look up a thing called the new deal."

You might want to look up a thing called WORLD WAR II.

New Deal, aka UFIA


So you've countered his spending program example with a massive spending program?
 
2009-02-19 4:46:11 PM  
This map predates the Obama administration by 4 years. This plan has been in the works for over a decade.
 
2009-02-19 4:46:27 PM  
$8 billion wouldnt buy the Right of Way for these projects.
 
2009-02-19 4:46:38 PM  

GoSurfing: FlashHarry

"you might want to look up a thing called the new deal."

You might want to look up a thing called WORLD WAR II.

New Deal, aka UFIA


excuse me?

i43.tinypic.comView Full Size
 
2009-02-19 4:46:41 PM  
How high-speed is "high-speed"? Our country is huge.

/The United Kingdom is slightly smaller than Oregon.
//It's true^
 
2009-02-19 4:47:47 PM  

GoldSpider: FlashHarry: you might want to look up a thing called the new deal.

Roosevelt also put several million working-age, able-bodied men to work killing Japs and Krauts.


we were "killing japs and krauts" between '33 and '41? fascinating!
 
2009-02-19 4:47:55 PM  
Is there a chance the track could bend?
 
2009-02-19 4:48:30 PM  
It's just as fast/faster to drive most of these routes.

Wake me up when we have actual high-speed rail.
 
2009-02-19 4:48:54 PM  
First, $8 Billion barely bought a replacement for the SF Bay Bridge. Granted, it's a boondoggle for which politicians on both sides of the bay need to be severely beaten, but that money will vanish before the engineering studies are done. Consider: CA Prop 1 (SF-LA high speed rail) approved $10 Billion in bonds, and that was just the first 1/4 - the rest is going to come from private sector, fares, and unicorn farts.

Second, shouldn't the routes basically follow the interstate system? I've driven a lot of those miles, and they're pretty good at connecting major metros.
 
2009-02-19 4:49:13 PM  
Denver got cut out completely.

Good! The rest of you stay the hell out!
 
2009-02-19 4:49:51 PM  

GoSurfing: I don't know what revisionist history you smoke, but WWII ended the depression.


Rory B. Bellows: World War II got us out.


Jumping Jesus on a pogo stick you people....

Just out of curiosity did we....SPEND ANY FARKING MONEY FIGHTING WORLD WAR TWO???????

Do you think Japan bombed us and suddenly we found the secret to turning hobos into gold or something?
 
2009-02-19 4:50:32 PM  
Go Surfing

Oh, snap! You got 'tole, son!

/stupid libs. always invading countries on false pretenses
and then sending airplanes full of 100$ bills in and losing
them....
 
2009-02-19 4:50:46 PM  

Tellingthem: bhcompy: The California rail is not being built by stimulus money, at least as far as I know. CA voters approved this one(20billion in bonds) in november.

So if the CA one is going to cost at least 20 billion...I doubt that 8 billion will get much except for some pretty blueprints.


Well, that's 10$billion on bonds, 10$billion in interest. The total cost right now is estimated at 40-45$billion. Predictions on total cost(since overruns always happen in public works) are as high as 80$billion.

Yea, I don't think 8billion will do much.
 
2009-02-19 4:50:53 PM  

wxboy: For those wishing they would connect everything...

These aren't going to be new rail lines, just upgrades to existing lines to allow for higher running speeds. The gaps are the sections that won't be getting the high-speed upgrades right away.


Damn you and your incessant facts. You are a vile killer of my rant ready joy.
 
2009-02-19 4:50:57 PM  
Sorry, 45 billion for Cali's
Cali Train website (pops)

"The most current estimated cost to build the 800-mile system is about $45 billion"

So yeah 8 billion is now where near enough to do most of that map.
 
2009-02-19 4:51:08 PM  

what_now: GoSurfing: I don't know what revisionist history you smoke, but WWII ended the depression.

Rory B. Bellows: World War II got us out.

Jumping Jesus on a pogo stick you people....

Just out of curiosity did we....SPEND ANY FARKING MONEY FIGHTING WORLD WAR TWO???????

Do you think Japan bombed us and suddenly we found the secret to turning hobos into gold or something?


shhh.... facts are like kryptonite to republicans.
 
2009-02-19 4:51:09 PM  
What a wonderful way to spend money. Look at the profit Amtrak has made over the years. -6 billion in the last 10 years. Think of how well the Acela has worked. It still doesn't run at full speed from Boston to New York. Now let's multiply the fail.
 
2009-02-19 4:51:35 PM  

Doc Loliday: Is there a chance the track could bend?


Not on your life, my Hindu friend!

I noticed North Haverbrook wasn't listed.
 
2009-02-19 4:51:52 PM  

what_now: Do you think Japan bombed us and suddenly we found the secret to turning hobos into gold or something?


Don't be silly. Everyone knows we did not discover that until 1966.
 
2009-02-19 4:52:19 PM  
And just like AMTRAK this will not be self sustaining and we will be subsidizing this forever.
Tax dollars you haven't dreamed of earning yet... are the subject of dreams about how to spend them.

Change you believed in.
 
2009-02-19 4:52:28 PM  

Sudlow: What a wonderful way to spend money. Look at the profit Amtrak has made over the years. -6 billion in the last 10 years. Think of how well the Acela has worked. It still doesn't run at full speed from Boston to New York. Now let's multiply the fail.


'cause this is all about profit. riiiight.
 
2009-02-19 4:52:30 PM  

FlashHarry: we were "killing japs and krauts" between '33 and '41? fascinating!


You will notice that the unemployment rate dropped an whole 10 friggin percent from 1941 - 1942. Unemployment was still very high when WWII started. It was pretty much non-existent by the end of the war.

If you don't think that WWII shoved the U.S. out of the depression, and ascribe the recovery instead to the New Deal, there's no logical argument that will sway you.
 
2009-02-19 4:53:14 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: I think it's absurd that this plan doesn't include a Vegas-SoCal line.


Because Vegas is going to run out of water in less than 30 years and become the biggest Boom to Bust story in American history.

Shame too, because I love the place.
 
2009-02-19 4:53:33 PM  

mattharvest: Why is there that little gap disconnecting Florida from the rest of the east coast?


Yep. Don't think voting right in one election can excuse them for the evil of the past. LOL

Do you notice that there aren't a lot of "red" states on the rail line?
 
2009-02-19 4:53:44 PM  

what_now: GoSurfing: I don't know what revisionist history you smoke, but WWII ended the depression.

Rory B. Bellows: World War II got us out.

Jumping Jesus on a pogo stick you people....

Just out of curiosity did we....SPEND ANY FARKING MONEY FIGHTING WORLD WAR TWO???????

Do you think Japan bombed us and suddenly we found the secret to turning hobos into gold or something?


Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor???!!! Hell NO
 
2009-02-19 4:54:00 PM  

FlashHarry: 'cause this is all about profit. riiiight.


A government program that doesn't make taxpayers feel like we're pissing in a hole is WAAAAY more than we're entitled to! Get back to work and pay for someone else's train!
 
2009-02-19 4:54:05 PM  
I think the reason there are so many gaps is because they're planning to connect the biggest cities with places where high-speed rail will get you there quicker than flight + security time.

That being said, I hope phase 2 includes a line between Eugene and Sacramento.
 
2009-02-19 4:54:12 PM  
You know who else made the trains run on time?
 
2009-02-19 4:54:18 PM  
I would like to have seen Phoenix get at least a few lines, but maybe that'll be a Phase 2 thing.

/I'd use a PHX to Vegas or a PHX to San Diego run, but I also realize that's not really the purpose of the high-speed rail. The East coasters need it worse.
 
2009-02-19 4:54:26 PM  
this whole rail thing is going to turn into just another black hole for federal funds. just what we need something else for the government to waste money on. lets not forget the billions that will be wasted on "environmental impact statements" that will take years and years before they even begin to lay rail
 
2009-02-19 4:54:43 PM  

tricycleracer: How high-speed is "high-speed"? Our country is huge.

/The United Kingdom is slightly smaller than Oregon.
//It's true^


Hence the gaps.
 
2009-02-19 4:54:47 PM  

DrillSergeantPoopyPants: Oh, the government is in charge? Then you can expect the trains to be high cost/low speed, and look something like this:


SNCF (that's France's national railroad system, I'm sure you'll appreciate that) would like a word with you. They've been running TGVs since 1982, at 200 mph in regular service. Great trains, too.
 
2009-02-19 4:55:14 PM  
[image from cartophilia.com too old to be available]
 
2009-02-19 4:55:47 PM  
Dear Middle of the United States,

No stimulus money rail. Not yours cannot have.

Sincerely,
The Federal Government
 
2009-02-19 4:55:59 PM  

GoldSpider: FlashHarry: we were "killing japs and krauts" between '33 and '41? fascinating!

You will notice that the unemployment rate dropped an whole 10 friggin percent from 1941 - 1942. Unemployment was still very high when WWII started. It was pretty much non-existent by the end of the war.

If you don't think that WWII shoved the U.S. out of the depression, and ascribe the recovery instead to the New Deal, there's no logical argument that will sway you.


jesus farking christ. nobody is saying that WWII didn't put a shiatload of men to work, you dunce. but to say that the new deal had NOTHING to do with pulling us out of the depression is just farking asinine.
 
2009-02-19 4:56:04 PM  
America's pipe dream. The amount of money alllocated for this project is like a penny jar our to cure AIDS. First lets consider the land that will ned to be purchased unless you are just planning on taking it via imminent domain. Then you better buckle up for the law suits that will entail. Plus you'll never get the numbers of riders to support it once its built. I saw this few years ago when they were doing major construction between Milwaukee and Madison for commuters, daily about 10-12 people rode it.
 
2009-02-19 4:56:21 PM  

mattharvest: (a) Why is there that little gap disconnecting Florida from the rest of the east coast?


This should be obvious...
You'll also notice that we left out Cali and most of TX...

/hmmmmmmmm...
//elipses...
 
2009-02-19 4:56:53 PM  

what_now: GoSurfing: I don't know what revisionist history you smoke, but WWII ended the depression.

Rory B. Bellows: World War II got us out.

Jumping Jesus on a pogo stick you people....

Just out of curiosity did we....SPEND ANY FARKING MONEY FIGHTING WORLD WAR TWO???????

Do you think Japan bombed us and suddenly we found the secret to turning hobos into gold or something?


I'm pretty sure private business funded the whole thing due to tax cuts.
 
2009-02-19 4:57:47 PM  

trouzourt: Just another way that tax dollars are going to be wasted. Notice how every state that voted for Obama is getting the rail system, where is the central states are being left out once again in the dark.


But we will get to drive up to 65mph in our 10 HP electric cars that can only go 50 miles before having to recharge. Less if you want to have AC or a stereo.
 
2009-02-19 4:58:10 PM  

RobertBruce: that is a huge amount of disconnected FAIL.


You can't connect everything in one shot. It's just too much to ask. Kudos to them for coming up with something ambitious yet realistic.

If I could take a high speed to Chicago from St. Louis I would be going there every other weekend. Most bars over here have so much smoke they are worse than the NBC chamber we went through back in basic training.
 
2009-02-19 4:58:25 PM  
RocketRod: No L.A. to Vegas train??!!

THIS
THIS
THIS
THIS

FFS...I'm surprised the casino owners haven't ponied up the $$$ to do it themselves. I would use it once a month.
 
2009-02-19 4:59:01 PM  

GoldSpider: If you don't think that WWII shoved the U.S. out of the depression, and ascribe the recovery instead to the New Deal, there's no logical argument that will sway you.


Look, no one disputes that WWII put the nail in the coffin of the great depression. But the new talking point is that the New Deal somehow made it worse, which is NOT TRUE. These idiots are saying this because they are 1) hyper partisan douchebags who can't say anything nice about FDR because he had a D after his name, and B)are desperately trying to make people think the stimulus package will fail.

Here's where there logic fails: Entering WWII was the greatest "Economic Stimulus Package" this country has ever seen. The federal government spent an astronomical amount of money....PUTTING PEOPLE TO WORK! So go ahead- tell me that the economic stimulus won't work because it was WW2 that got us out of the war.

I'm going to laugh at you, and call you names.
 
2009-02-19 4:59:13 PM  

Diadem: High speed trains in New England? Yeah, good luck with that....


Like this one.

i221.photobucket.comView Full Size
 
2009-02-19 4:59:23 PM  

vernonFL: You know who else made the trains run on time?


William Lambert?
Charles Dowd?
Sir Sandford Fleming?
 
2009-02-19 4:59:24 PM  

Tellingthem: Sorry, 45 billion for Cali's
Cali Train website (pops)

"The most current estimated cost to build the 800-mile system is about $45 billion"

So yeah 8 billion is now where near enough to do most of that map.


Maybe my geography is off, but that looks like a helluva lot longer than 800 miles.

San Diego to San Francisco alone is about 450.
 
2009-02-19 4:59:44 PM  
Now THIS is a model of efficient public transportation.
Dude, actually, if the weather was nice I could have so much fun doing this, wind in my hair, until like 40 when you suddenly turn cranky and demand a seat and people waiting on you and all that.

Did you see the Extreme (Bullet) Trainsurfing video? (the "died of leukemia" thing was a hoax- the dude's alive and well and never had leukemia).

That's awesome, except for the leukemia thing. He actually bought his ticket, on the advice of a lawyer, who pointed out that he couldn't even be prosecuted for Theft of Services. He just didn't follow expectations of HOW he rode the train. Nowhere did anyone say he HAD to ride on the inside, allowing the George Costanza defense: "Was that wrong? Was I not supposed to do that? Because if I knew that this was in any way frowned upon..."
 
2009-02-19 4:59:52 PM  

Radworld4: America's pipe dream. The amount of money alllocated for this project is like a penny jar our to cure AIDS. First lets consider the land that will ned to be purchased unless you are just planning on taking it via imminent domain. Then you better buckle up for the law suits that will entail. Plus you'll never get the numbers of riders to support it once its built. I saw this few years ago when they were doing major construction between Milwaukee and Madison for commuters, daily about 10-12 people rode it.


Was gas close to $5 a gallon at the time?
 
2009-02-19 5:00:08 PM  

GoldSpider:

If you don't think that WWII shoved the U.S. out of the depression, and ascribe the recovery instead to the New Deal, there's no logical argument that will sway you.


i apologize for blowing up.

i accept the fact that WWII pushed the US past the tipping point from depression into postwar boom, but the recovery began in 1933 with the first new deal. anyone who says it didn't is either lying or ignorant.
 
2009-02-19 5:00:10 PM  
Speedopass? God forbid...
i167.photobucket.comView Full Size
 
2009-02-19 5:00:34 PM  
Subby, it's called a Passport Card. Hopefully, the kiddos growing up now will be interested in maintaining the rail system, because I have a real hard time imagining anyone over 35 leaving their car at home.
 
2009-02-19 5:00:55 PM  

greaser_77: RocketRod: No L.A. to Vegas train??!!

THIS
THIS
THIS
THIS

FFS...I'm surprised the casino owners haven't ponied up the $$$ to do it themselves. I would use it once a month.


they finally just got around to a NYC/AC train....took em long enough.
 
2009-02-19 5:00:58 PM  

FlashHarry: Beatle_Matt: Doesn't this all seem a bit counter-intuitive that in the middle of the deepest recession in 30 years, all this money is being spent on all of these stimulus bills and projects?

Like "Hey, as a nation we're broke - let's spend our way out of it until it turns around?". I'm not economist, so really I have NO friggin' idea if I'm even close to the mark...

um... you're not.

you might want to look up a thing called the new deal. (new window)


Well what would have happened if World War II hadn't rolled around?
 
2009-02-19 5:01:05 PM  

FlashHarry: but to say that the new deal had NOTHING to do with pulling us out of the depression is just farking asinine.


I haven't seen any evidence to support such a claim. I'd certainly be willing to read if you have some.
 
2009-02-19 5:01:22 PM  
extremefunnyhumor.comView Full Size

(whoops lost the pic the first time)

Now THIS is a model of efficient public transportation.
Dude, actually, if the weather was nice I could have so much fun doing this, wind in my hair, until like 40 when you suddenly turn cranky and demand a seat and people waiting on you and all that.

Did you see the Extreme (Bullet) Trainsurfing video? (the "died of leukemia" thing was a hoax- the dude's alive and well and never had leukemia).

That's awesome, except for the leukemia thing. He actually bought his ticket, on the advice of a lawyer, who pointed out that he couldn't even be prosecuted for Theft of Services. He just didn't follow expectations of HOW he rode the train. Nowhere did anyone say he HAD to ride on the inside, allowing the George Costanza defense: "Was that wrong? Was I not supposed to do that? Because if I knew that this was in any way frowned upon..."
 
2009-02-19 5:01:24 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: I'm pretty sure private business funded the whole thing due to tax cuts.


My grandpa still has the uniform he wore while a proud member of General Patten's Coca-ColaHearstPaper Army.
 
2009-02-19 5:01:43 PM  

trouzourt: Just another way that tax dollars are going to be wasted. Notice how every state that voted for Obama is getting the rail system, where is the central states are being left out once again in the dark.


That's what the middle of the country is for, people who gave up on their dreams.

Seriously, I'd make a counterpoint, but they've already been made.
 
2009-02-19 5:02:23 PM  

jvowles: GaryPDX: Shostie: Here's a better image of the map: Link (new window)

They should really work on interconnecting everything, rather than six separate systems.

We already have Amtrak between Portland and Seattle. If they knock off a half hour, I'd be gobsmacked. That train is already pretty fast. So I say, WE DON'T NEED THIS SHIAT RIGHT NOW and WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY. But, what the hell. I won't be around when the Zombie Apocalypse begins.

YOU may not need it up in the northwest, where the towns grew around the rail lines; in the heavily congested areas of the country -- where most of the people actually live, most of the jobs are, and most of the car and rail traffic is -- those lines represent a MUCH needed relief from endless traffic snarls.


Seriously, ever managed to drive between Portland and Seattle in the daytime in less than six hours?

I've done it in an hour and a half at night... (not precisely in a fashion that would be described as "legal"...)

The only reason it could be considered "unnecessary" is because of the Dash 8 short bus every half hour, but even then you still have 2 hours of sodomy from the TSA on either end.

Which of course will be the case with high-speed rail as well...

Hell with it. Connect Vancouver to Ft. Nelson to Haines Junction to Tok to Fairbanks to Nome to the Bering Chunnel to Vladivostok, then we can have a *real* rail system...

/paging Wally Hickel
 
2009-02-19 5:02:28 PM  
So if I get on a train in Cincinnati, the viable destinations (which would make it worth the huge ticket price and having to rent a car on the other end) are Cleveland and Minneapolis......?

FAIL
 
2009-02-19 5:02:47 PM  
Dear US Government,

As the unofficial spokesman for the state of Tennessee, I've polled the people*, and we don't even WANT your fruity little high-speed train. We'd (Middle Tenn that is) rather fly out on a crappy American Airlines Eagle plane to Chicago or from an even crappier US Airways hub to Charlotte, NC (or Dallas/Fort Worth, or etc... never directly to our destionation of course) to get to the places we need to go.

No matter that you can't go three feet without tripping over existing railway, we don't even want Amtrak here. Why you ask? Well they crash! A lot! Nope, only safe, proven air travel'll fill our needs. So thank you for not including us in your probably expensive, and definitely deadly high-speed train system.

Your Affectionate Uncle,
Screwtape

No, wait...

Signed,
Robot Devil's Advocate

*Actually just the voices in my head. But they all agree. Except Burke...
 
2009-02-19 5:03:04 PM  

JimmyFartpants: Tellingthem: Sorry, 45 billion for Cali's
Cali Train website (pops)

"The most current estimated cost to build the 800-mile system is about $45 billion"

So yeah 8 billion is now where near enough to do most of that map.

Maybe my geography is off, but that looks like a helluva lot longer than 800 miles.

San Diego to San Francisco alone is about 450.


Your geography is not off ;). That is the est. cost for the California system only.
 
2009-02-19 5:03:15 PM  
FatAssPass
 
2009-02-19 5:04:01 PM  

GoldSpider: FlashHarry: but to say that the new deal had NOTHING to do with pulling us out of the depression is just farking asinine.

I haven't seen any evidence to support such a claim. I'd certainly be willing to read if you have some.


are you serious? you seriously believe that the new deal had NOTHING to do with ending the great depression? i just want to be clear here. you believe that GDP and unemployment were flat from the crash of '29 to december 7, 1941?
 
2009-02-19 5:04:58 PM  
It's 8 billion dollars for the entire country.

The cost to built a 23 mile extension of DC's Metro to Dulles airport is currently expected to cost $5 billion.


These high speed trains are less likely to appear than flying cars.
 
2009-02-19 5:05:08 PM  

vinnydoz007: Any idea how fast it is exactly? Say New York to Boston? its nearly 5 hours on the amtrak.


On Acela express it's 7 hours from Boston to Washington, DC.
New York to Boston: I think they cut it down to 3.5 hours.
 
2009-02-19 5:05:30 PM  
[image from img.snlarc.jt.org too old to be available]

I say we connect every major city to
every other major city with a CANAL!


 
2009-02-19 5:05:39 PM  

trouzourt: mattharvest
It's bizarre that you think this is "because of the way they voted", when there's absolutely no evidence for it. What on earth does the unemployment rate in any of those cities have to do with their votes, or whether a train should go there?

Kansas Voted for McCain by 57%
Unemployment rate Kansas 5.2
and now look at the image where the rail is going. it stops dead at Kansas...

Now look at the unemployment rate for say


Its sad that when people said Bush didn't care about Black people it was all OK , but when someone says Obama is punishing the voters im suddenly a troll.


There's nothing west of KC for 1000 miles.

Maybe use the heavy-duty foil next time.
 
2009-02-19 5:05:48 PM  

Colonel_Debugger: It's 8 billion dollars for the entire country.

The cost to built a 23 mile extension of DC's Metro to Dulles airport is currently expected to cost $5 billion.


upgrade - not from scratch.
 
2009-02-19 5:06:05 PM  

GaryPDX: Shostie: Here's a better image of the map: Link (new window)

They should really work on interconnecting everything, rather than six separate systems.

We already have Amtrak between Portland and Seattle. If they knock off a half hour, I'd be gobsmacked. That train is already pretty fast. So I say, WE DON'T NEED THIS SHIAT RIGHT NOW and WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY. But, what the hell. I won't be around when the Zombie Apocalypse begins.


put me in the boat with Gary, while it is nice, WE(the PNW) do not need this..... I mean it would be slick to knock some time and cost off the tip to Seatown, I know the City of Portland could realy use some new bridges(looking at you sellwood)
 
2009-02-19 5:06:26 PM  
So i can go from Protland to Jacksonville, but need to change to a local train to get to Orlando to get back onto a high-speed to get to Miami?

and no link from Chicago to NY, even though the end of the two lines get a coon-hair apart?

planning fail.
 
2009-02-19 5:06:35 PM  

AlwaysRightBoy: Diadem: High speed trains in New England? Yeah, good luck with that....

Like this one.


The Acela? You mean the one that cuts about 15 minutes off the time of regular trains between DC and NYC?
 
2009-02-19 5:07:09 PM  

eatomhoch: This map predates the Obama administration by 4 years. This plan has been in the works for over a decade.


AND this plan can be stalled for decades to come because some facet may not pass a stupid 'environmental impact study'.

Is this another 'shovel ready' (in bogus democrat parlance) project into which we can dump endless taxpayer cash?

Stimulus. Pffft.
 
2009-02-19 5:07:34 PM  

trouzourt: Just another way that tax dollars are going to be wasted. Notice how every state that voted for Obama is getting the rail system, where is the central states are being left out once again in the dark.


Yeah, Oklahoma and Texas really swung for Obama!
 
2009-02-19 5:07:49 PM  
Go ahead, knock an hour off my time getting to Seattle from Portland.

Go on, I dare you.
 
2009-02-19 5:08:06 PM  
Okey for the people in Nebraska I give this Idea...

Las Vegas to Denver
Denver to Grand Island
Grand Island to Lincoln
Lincoln to Omaha
Omaha to Kansas City/ Des Moines

Yea I know Im dreaming
 
2009-02-19 5:08:12 PM  
Husband: Honey we're broke, the plant laid me off and we have the mortgage and credit card bills. Im afraid we're going to have to sell everything that isn't breathing and rent an apartment for a while just so we can afford to pay the kids tuition still.

Obama: No its all right dear, I have this credit card with some room left on it, I will just pay the Mortgage and the other bills with money I can borrow against it.

Husband: ?! but what about next month ?!

Obama: Oh no problem I'll just apply for another card. In fact I've been thinking of getting the pigs ears pierced.

Michelle: OINK!
 
2009-02-19 5:08:13 PM  

GoldSpider: You will notice that the unemployment rate dropped an whole 10 friggin percent from 1941 - 1942. Unemployment was still very high when WWII started. It was pretty much non-existent by the end of the war.


Employment right now is above 10% if you count the people who have given up trying to find work and those who can't work as many hours as you want to as they did in back then.
 
2009-02-19 5:08:55 PM  
Is anyone certain that this is the official map of this project? Something about it doesn't seem right. Has anyone in the administration referred to this map?

I have a sneaking suspicion this was a map used in an RFP a number of years ago, dusted it off, and they are using this as a conceptual piece rather than a guiding piece.
 
2009-02-19 5:09:07 PM  
There's been talk of the Philadelphia-Harrisburgh-Pittsburgh link for decades. It keeps getting shot down because that's just not a very popular trip. The existing train covers it if you don't want to drive, and it stops at several more places in between.
 
2009-02-19 5:09:31 PM  
cmon you pork-loving political bastards, at -least- give me Detroit-Columbus.
 
2009-02-19 5:10:11 PM  
They need a train from LA to Las Vegas. That way I can go from Sac to Vegas and not spend 3-4 hours in an airport.
 
2009-02-19 5:10:22 PM  

Colonel_Debugger: AlwaysRightBoy: Diadem: High speed trains in New England? Yeah, good luck with that....

Like this one.

The Acela? You mean the one that cuts about 15 minutes off the time of regular trains between DC and NYC?


because updating the trains doesnt nearly do anything when the tracks cant support higher speeds...so in order to get the real benefit from the acela, they have to do a ton of track replacement, and since we all know how profitable amtrak is...you can see why its not done.
 
2009-02-19 5:10:35 PM  

FlashHarry: GoSurfing: FlashHarry

"you might want to look up a thing called the new deal."

You might want to look up a thing called WORLD WAR II.

New Deal, aka UFIA

excuse me?


pwnt.

i243.photobucket.comView Full Size


Personally I have always wanted to be able to travel from Seattle to Eugene in a timely manner.

Oh the things to do in Eugene!
 
2009-02-19 5:10:43 PM  

12349876: GoldSpider: You will notice that the unemployment rate dropped an whole 10 friggin percent from 1941 - 1942. Unemployment was still very high when WWII started. It was pretty much non-existent by the end of the war.

Employment right now is above 10% if you count the people who have given up trying to find work and those who can't work as many hours as you want to as they did in back then.


Unemployment also only counts the people drawing unemployment benefits, not those whose benefits have already expired.
 
2009-02-19 5:11:42 PM  
timujin:
Am I the only one who finds it odd that all of the cities are where they're supposed to be except for Houston, which is about 100 miles too far inland?

Richmond and "Hampton Roads" are also quite a bit north of where they should be.

I put "Hampton Roads" in parentheses because you have CSX/Amtrak lines north of the James River from Richmond to the terminals in Newport News, and Norfolk Southern rail lines south of the James to the terminals in Norfolk, but there is no rail connection across the James River itself anywhere near the population centers. Having the two connected would be very nice, as it could cut out a lot of truck traffic on the interstates, particularly through the tunnels.
 
2009-02-19 5:11:57 PM  
c'mon, GoldSpider, i'm still waiting. do you honestly believe that GDP and unemployment remained flat from '29 to december '41?
 
2009-02-19 5:12:45 PM  

FlashHarry: c'mon, GoldSpider, i'm still waiting. do you honestly believe that GDP and unemployment remained flat from '29 to december '41?


You blue screened him.
 
2009-02-19 5:13:10 PM  

GoldSpider: FlashHarry: 'cause this is all about profit. riiiight.

A government program that doesn't make taxpayers feel like we're pissing in a hole is WAAAAY more than we're entitled to! Get back to work and pay for someone else's train!


Having been forced into paying for blowing up and then rebuilding Iraq's infrastructure, making a ton of corrupt profiteers millionaires along the way, I do think that spending public funds on something useful in the US makes for a nice change of pace. Plus, we don't have to blow anything up, which must make for some sort of saving.
 
2009-02-19 5:13:19 PM  
While the goal of a cross-country system is cool, it is best to start off with these small segments because they are what most people are going to use. Not a lot of business travelers or weekend getawayers are going to go from New York to LA, but they will go from San Francisco to LA or Indianapolis to Chicago. It would be like asking a European if they would take a train from Madrid to Moscow versus Frankfurt to Berlin.
 
2009-02-19 5:13:32 PM  

KJM315: Colonel_Debugger: AlwaysRightBoy: Diadem: High speed trains in New England? Yeah, good luck with that....

Like this one.

The Acela? You mean the one that cuts about 15 minutes off the time of regular trains between DC and NYC?

-------------

because updating the trains doesnt nearly do anything when the tracks cant support higher speeds...so in order to get the real benefit from the acela, they have to do a ton of track replacement, and since we all know how profitable amtrak is...you can see why its not done.



The problem is that there's one rail line, and trains don't pass each other very well. The Acela gets stuck behind the trains in front of it.
 
2009-02-19 5:13:37 PM  

Nagaempress: Okey for the people in Nebraska I give this Idea...

Las Vegas to Denver
Denver to Grand Island
Grand Island to Lincoln
Lincoln to Omaha
Omaha to Kansas City/ Des Moines

Yea I know Im dreaming


I wouldn't stress it too much. It isn't as though they are out there frantically working on all this. These things are going to take for freaking ever to be built...if they ever get done at all.
 
2009-02-19 5:14:04 PM  
Polly Ester - that is a cool map.
 
2009-02-19 5:14:35 PM  

Ack_Ack: Personally I have always wanted to be able to travel from Seattle to Eugene in a timely manner.

Oh the things to do in Eugene!


No good hippy.
 
2009-02-19 5:15:52 PM  

Colonel_Debugger: AlwaysRightBoy: Diadem: High speed trains in New England? Yeah, good luck with that....

Like this one.

The Acela? You mean the one that cuts about 15 minutes off the time of regular trains between DC and NYC?


Yes when it runs and the brakes actually work.
It looks cool at least, I'm on the northeast corridor everyday and when one of these zips by my commuter train it really zips.
 
2009-02-19 5:16:36 PM  
Polly Ester map is what should be done. A link between coasts would make since... but nooooooo.
 
2009-02-19 5:17:13 PM  

GoSurfing: what_now

If you look carefully, I've never said the New Deal didn't help


true. you said: "I don't know what revisionist history you smoke, but WWII ended the depression."

explain how the economy grew by a staggering 17.1% in 1941.
 
2009-02-19 5:17:36 PM  
No way this state gets any of that stimulus, right?
[image from cartophilia.com too old to be available]
Oh wait...

/a blue Okie
 
2009-02-19 5:18:17 PM  
Lickalotapass.

Or something like that.
 
2009-02-19 5:19:49 PM  

mitchcumstein1: Sacramento to Reno to Salt Lake to Denver to Kansas City wouldn't be a horrible idea, neither is San Diego to Albuquerque to some God-awful place in West Texas to Dallas.


This.
 
2009-02-19 5:19:57 PM  
You don't WANT the whole system to be connected. No one is going to take High speed rail from New York To L.A. HSR really has a role to cover distances less than 500 miles or so. Any longer and it is no longer competitive with air travel.

And California voters approved $10 B in bonds to start the CA HSR system. Another $10 B will be raised from private investors, and we hope to get another $10B from the federal government eventually. We are applying for $2B of the $8B in the stimulus package to start construction on grade separations and so forth over the next couple years:

Press Release about requesting stimulus fund use for CA-HSR. (new window) I expect we'll get it, since our system is the furthest along in terms of planning and environmental investigation, AND we now have a voter mandate behind it along with voter approved funding.
 
2009-02-19 5:20:54 PM  
Awesome... more and better shiat for the coasts at public expense, while most of the rest of the country lacks even basic transit services. We don't have money to extend services to "environmentally unfriendly" rural areas because we're too busy spending those dollars to make urban areas palatable.
 
2009-02-19 5:21:12 PM  

GoSurfing: Ack_Ack

Wow considering your a stinky commie from the Washington/Oregon area, and you live the lie that FDR's big deal saved the USA...well yes then I did get owned.


Little riled up there cowboy? Its okay, we will still love you tomorrow.
 
2009-02-19 5:21:23 PM  

12349876: It would be like asking a European if they would take a train from Madrid to Moscow versus Frankfurt to Berlin.


This.

I don't know about all of you, but I loathe traveling for more than 7-8 hours at a clip. So that makes the comfortable ranges roughly:
car.... 450 miles
rail... 650 miles
air.... 4000 miles

I see a lot more value in standardizing the gauge and equipment from D.C. while leaving implementation to the states and regional transit authorities. This lets the systems grow into each other organically - unlike BART, which will never connect to another transit system because they picked a custom, 1-off design that can't share parts with anything.
 
2009-02-19 5:21:47 PM  
My god... Some people are just stupid.

No, we wouldn't have to spend billions to get all new land. Do you not realize that there are already passenger train lines that would be converted/updated to handle the high speed trains? The chances that we'd have to buy or acquire new land will be minor and insignificant.

And to the whole New Deal caused the depression BS, it did help out the economy but wasn't large enough to do the job fully. WWII was a MONSTER sized spending program that put the rest back to work.

Look back to when unemployment was at it's highest at about 25% in 1932. By the time we got involved in WWII our unemployment was ~10%. That's a considerable difference, even though it may not have been perfect, but was definitely better then 25% unemployment.

So please... Tell us that the New Deal didn't help out and that spending programs won't help people get back to work.
 
2009-02-19 5:22:44 PM  

wmoonfox: Awesome... more and better shiat for the coasts at public expense, while most of the rest of the country lacks even basic transit services. We don't have money to extend services to "environmentally unfriendly" rural areas because we're too busy spending those dollars to make urban areas palatable.


No, it's because there aren't enough people living in states like Wyoming and North Dakota to make building a high speed rail cost effective.
 
2009-02-19 5:24:26 PM  

wmoonfox: Awesome... more and better shiat for the coasts at public expense, while most of the rest of the country lacks even basic transit services. We don't have money to extend services to "environmentally unfriendly" rural areas because we're too busy spending those dollars to make urban areas palatable.


it's funny.... "urban areas" tend to be where more people live.

interestingly, too, rural states tend to be red states, which avoid raising taxes at all costs - often to the detriment of infrastructure. hell, for a while (maybe still), parts of southwest missouri didn't have localized 911 services because they refused to levy the tax to pay for it!
 
2009-02-19 5:25:18 PM  

archichris: So if I get on a train in Cincinnati, the viable destinations (which would make it worth the huge ticket price and having to rent a car on the other end) are Cleveland and Minneapolis......?

FAIL


Cincinnatti doesn't have a large relative population. A chicagoan who had business in KC could cover the distance in 3 hours on a high-speed train. The hassles of airport travel would be alleviated as he'd simply have to park his car, walk to a kiosk, swipe his credit card and get on the train.

Really, the northeast and I-95 corridor needs this like a fat kid needs cake. the made up productivity of a high speed train would seriously benefit the area. NY to Florida in 6 hours? yes please...

If the Germans can operate a successful network in their climate, i dont see why the US cant.

Less cars on the road, people at home more often. this country loses a crazy amount of productivity simply being stuck in traffic.
 
2009-02-19 5:25:49 PM  
Ok. I've done some digging and it seems like the 8 billion would be made available to help individual states build the trains. So the government isn't going to build anything.

"A Reid spokesman said the money was not being earmarked for any specific project but would be available on a competitive basis. "This was a major priority for President Obama, and Sen. Reid as a conferee supported it," said Jon Summers."

""The plan includes $8 billion for 'high-speed rail/passenger rail grants to states.' The state rail grants will be prioritized for high-speed rail projects. The Secretary will have complete flexibility as to which program he uses to allocate the funds, however, the proposed Los Angeles-Las Vegas rail project would be eligible to receive funds, as would the Northeast corridor. This was a major priority for President Obama and Sen. Reid as a conferee supported it."

LA Times (new window)

The Takeaway (new window)
\not sure about the Takeaway as a good source. But they say the quote is from Harry Reid's spokesman.
 
2009-02-19 5:26:53 PM  

dgalvan123: You don't WANT the whole system to be connected. No one is going to take High speed rail from New York To L.A. HSR really has a role to cover distances less than 500 miles or so. Any longer and it is no longer competitive with air travel.

And California voters approved $10 B in bonds to start the CA HSR system. Another $10 B will be raised from private investors, and we hope to get another $10B from the federal government eventually. We are applying for $2B of the $8B in the stimulus package to start construction on grade separations and so forth over the next couple years:

Press Release about requesting stimulus fund use for CA-HSR. (new window) I expect we'll get it, since our system is the furthest along in terms of planning and environmental investigation, AND we now have a voter mandate behind it along with voter approved funding.


Just out of curiousity, how long is the project expected to take from start to finish? Seems like I heard 25 years or some crazy number like that and I sort of lost interest.
 
2009-02-19 5:26:56 PM  

Da Bum:

Look back to when unemployment was at it's highest at about 25% in 1932. By the time we got involved in WWII our unemployment was ~10%. That's a considerable difference, even though it may not have been perfect, but was definitely better then 25% unemployment..


freakin' THIS.
 
2009-02-19 5:26:58 PM  

Jedi_Templar: wmoonfox: Awesome... more and better shiat for the coasts at public expense, while most of the rest of the country lacks even basic transit services. We don't have money to extend services to "environmentally unfriendly" rural areas because we're too busy spending those dollars to make urban areas palatable.

No, it's because there aren't enough people living in states like Wyoming and North Dakota to make building a high speed rail cost effective.


Then they shouldn't have to pay. It won't benefit us either, there's already good Amtrak service and Portland has added 4 new major train lines in the metro area already in the last 5 years. The west side is now connected to Trimet.

Tell me something..what happened to the 286.4 Billion Highway Bill 4 years ago..what happened to that money?

Oh..and WE DON'T HAVE THE FARKING MONEY..:)
 
2009-02-19 5:29:42 PM  
Why not connect sacramento to eugene instead of two lines from The Sac to LA?

Why not Kansas City to Tulsa (and connect chicago to TX
and leave Texarkana to Little Rock until later?

the 5,000,000 farkers on unemployment can dig a line from Dallas to SanDiego. The southern line will be almost complete.

If they dont want to dig.. "no soup for you."
 
2009-02-19 5:29:46 PM  

ThrnPhl: Please please please build Boston-Montreal first!

Agreed.


Forget you guys! You've had your chance since the region was settled 500 years ago! Let us Pacific Northwesterners have it first!

Or we'll secede and you'll have to buy your lumber from China. Enjoy your lead laced houses!
 
2009-02-19 5:30:45 PM  

alywa: Tennessee isn't in there, which seems odd considering Chattanooga, Knoxville, Nashville and Memphis are pretty good sized cities, and could easily connect Little Rock to Charlotte, and hence connect the TX rail lines with the East Cost.

/hopes this happens


This needs to be repeated....
 
2009-02-19 5:30:45 PM  

GaryPDX: No, it's because there aren't enough people living in states like Wyoming and North Dakota to make building a high speed rail cost effective.

Then they shouldn't have to pay.


a slippery slope. this isn't a confederation.
 
2009-02-19 5:31:11 PM  

GoldSpider: FlashHarry: we were "killing japs and krauts" between '33 and '41? fascinating!

You will notice that the unemployment rate dropped an whole 10 friggin percent from 1941 - 1942. Unemployment was still very high when WWII started. It was pretty much non-existent by the end of the war.

If you don't think that WWII shoved the U.S. out of the depression, and ascribe the recovery instead to the New Deal, there's no logical argument that will sway you.


Don't you read what you link?

Sure, World War II effectively ended the remnants of the Depression in the U.S. But look at the data in your own link: unemployment rate 24.9% in 1933, 9.9 in 1941. So during the New Deal, the unemployment rate dropped more than it did during WW2. And it didn't require the deaths of tens of millions to do so.

Now, I'm still skeptical. But I really hate shoddy arguments. I'll grant that it's better than welfare to employ people to do something of potential benefit.
 
2009-02-19 5:31:47 PM  
Looks like they will be taking back some bike trails from the rails to trails program.
 
2009-02-19 5:32:36 PM  
Where's the love for the rocky mountain states?
 
2009-02-19 5:33:24 PM  
I can't wait to see all you Farkers out there working on the RailRoad in your cute little safety vests and hard hats. It will be glorious. Buy American!! Go Get'em!!

/no hiring illegals
 
2009-02-19 5:34:41 PM  

GoSurfing:
We were developing newer planes, boats, submarines, and aircraft carriers during the late '30s...because we looked to Europe and saw war on the horizon...hence the increase in GDP.


defense spending went from 1.7% of GDP in 1940 to 5.6% of GDP - a little more than where it is today. a leap, to be sure - but not one that would account for a 17% increase in GDP.
 
2009-02-19 5:35:38 PM  
Ohio's portion has been planned for a couple of years, called the Ohio Hub. It acts as a connector to a lot of other existing rail lines.

Oh, and Ohio's planned routes use existing easements for the most part, much of it on railbed that's no longer in use by the commercial railroads, which there is a ton of.
 
2009-02-19 5:35:49 PM  

CapitolG: GaryPDX: Shostie: Here's a better image of the map: Link (new window)

They should really work on interconnecting everything, rather than six separate systems.

put me in the boat with Gary, while it is nice, WE(the PNW) do not need this..... I mean it would be slick to knock some time and cost off the tip to Seatown, I know the City of Portland could realy use some new bridges(looking at you sellwood)



Well, we don't need this unless it gives us the chance to GET THE HELL OUT OF THE PNW once in awhile. Great for business travellers, not so much for a weekend away.
 
2009-02-19 5:36:12 PM  

FlashHarry: GaryPDX: Then they shouldn't have to pay.

a slippery slope. this isn't a confederation.


That doesn't mean the vast majority of the country should be forced to fund upgrades to transit systems they'd be happy to have in their current state, for the benefit of a few heavily-populated areas.
 
2009-02-19 5:36:47 PM  

FlashHarry: GaryPDX: No, it's because there aren't enough people living in states like Wyoming and North Dakota to make building a high speed rail cost effective.

Then they shouldn't have to pay.

a slippery slope. this isn't a confederation.


You're right..it's just a Train Robbery.

/bm tsh
 
2009-02-19 5:36:52 PM  
I live in Cleveland and I'm digging what I see! A high-speed rail ride to Columbus? MARCON, here I come!
 
2009-02-19 5:37:08 PM  

Beatle_Matt: Doesn't this all seem a bit counter-intuitive that in the middle of the deepest recession in 30 years, all this money is being spent on all of these stimulus bills and projects?

Like "Hey, as a nation we're broke - let's spend our way out of it until it turns around?". I'm not economist, so really I have NO friggin' idea if I'm even close to the mark...


You're right, and please, ignore most of the stupid comments here talking about the New Deal. Ask any one of them to explain how, mathematically, the New Deal could be a success, and I reckon they can't.

If "stimulus" worked and created jobs, why wouldn't we just keep doing it? It would be cool, wouldn't it? Think about it, we can just create jobs out of NOTHING. Heck, we don't even have to build anything useful. Just build a bridge to nowhere, or build a gigantic skyscraper in the middle of Alaska, because it will create jobs at NO COST.

In case your sarcasm detector isn't working, you can't just keep stimulating. "Stimulus packages" cost. Either your government has to tax people more or borrow more or print money (which makes your currency worth less).

The net result of "stimulus" packages is nil in terms of "job creation", or else you make the next generation poorer to pay for jobs created.

Now, high speed rail may be a good thing, in which case you should do it, but doing it because it creates jobs is wrong. If the government takes $10 off you as a taxpayer to pay for it, that's a latte and a cake you're not going to get. So, maybe a job building tracks gets created, but a job serving at Starbucks gets destroyed. That's bad economics, as it means that resources are diverted to things that people don't want, rather than things people do want.
 
2009-02-19 5:38:20 PM  

Rubberband Girl: I live in Cleveland and I'm digging what I see! A high-speed rail ride to Columbus? MARCON, here I come!


Do you know who else had an efficient train system?
 
2009-02-19 5:38:41 PM  

Wizzin: dgalvan123: You don't WANT the whole system to be connected. No one is going to take High speed rail from New York To L.A. HSR really has a role to cover distances less than 500 miles or so. Any longer and it is no longer competitive with air travel.

And California voters approved $10 B in bonds to start the CA HSR system. Another $10 B will be raised from private investors, and we hope to get another $10B from the federal government eventually. We are applying for $2B of the $8B in the stimulus package to start construction on grade separations and so forth over the next couple years:

Press Release about requesting stimulus fund use for CA-HSR. (new window) I expect we'll get it, since our system is the furthest along in terms of planning and environmental investigation, AND we now have a voter mandate behind it along with voter approved funding.

Just out of curiousity, how long is the project expected to take from start to finish? Seems like I heard 25 years or some crazy number like that and I sort of lost interest.


Well, the worst projected cost I've seen said a total of 81$billion by 2030. So that seems inline with what you are saying.
 
2009-02-19 5:40:02 PM  
Where is the John Galt Line?
 
2009-02-19 5:40:57 PM  

wmoonfox: FlashHarry: GaryPDX: Then they shouldn't have to pay.

a slippery slope. this isn't a confederation.

That doesn't mean the vast majority of the country should be forced to fund upgrades to transit systems they'd be happy to have in their current state, for the benefit of a few heavily-populated areas.


I'm guessing you don't know about the Essential Air Service (new window) which are commercial flights to small towns that are subsidized by the Department of Transportation.

/it goes both ways
 
2009-02-19 5:41:31 PM  
I wish they had a high speed line from Chicago to Champaign on there, parallel or on the same tracks as the current Amtrak.

That thing gets a lot of commuters, what with the big state school here, but if it were possible to get to Chicago in an hour or less, it would change the whole area.
 
2009-02-19 5:41:37 PM  
Can we please stop with the new deal/WWII discussion? Go submit a link with the topic if that's what you really want to argue about. Thanks
 
2009-02-19 5:42:07 PM  

mitchcumstein1: Kansas and Kansas City should be the headquarters and central hub for the whole system, with all lines radiating out from there. Then again I'm from Kansas and Kansas City and may be a little biased.


Nooooo! Alaska is HUUUGE. It should be the hub!

Oh wait, it's out of the way and nobody lives there...

//Cheer up, I'm sure you'll still be a rollby state on the way to Denver.
 
2009-02-19 5:42:34 PM  
We need an L.A./Vegas train, dammit. The I-15 between Barstow and Vegas is one of the deadliest roads in the nation.
 
2009-02-19 5:43:45 PM  

little miss: We need an L.A./Vegas train, dammit. The I-15 between Barstow and Vegas is one of the deadliest roads in the nation.


Oh yeah?

Then how come it's not a Discovery Channel show?
 
2009-02-19 5:45:22 PM  

little miss: We need an L.A./Vegas train, dammit. The I-15 between Barstow and Vegas is one of the deadliest roads in the nation.


The hookers keep turning up dead in the desert?
 
2009-02-19 5:45:36 PM  

trouzourt: Its sad that when people said Bush didn't care about Black people it was all OK , but when someone says Obama is punishing the voters im suddenly a troll.


Fail! Look at the date on the map, then try to blame Obama again.
 
2009-02-19 5:46:28 PM  

GoSurfing: FlashHarry

"you might want to look up a thing called the new deal."

You might want to look up a thing called WORLD WAR II.

New Deal, aka UFIA


Yeah, that's horseshiat. Unemployment was dropping by 5% per year before Pearl Harbor. The only time it went up was when Roosevelt tried to balance the budget at the behest of the Cons in Congress.

You could look it up.
 
2009-02-19 5:46:50 PM  

DrForrester: trouzourt: mattharvest
It's bizarre that you think this is "because of the way they voted", when there's absolutely no evidence for it. What on earth does the unemployment rate in any of those cities have to do with their votes, or whether a train should go there?

Kansas Voted for McCain by 57%
Unemployment rate Kansas 5.2
and now look at the image where the rail is going. it stops dead at Kansas...

Now look at the unemployment rate for say


Its sad that when people said Bush didn't care about Black people it was all OK , but when someone says Obama is punishing the voters im suddenly a troll.

There's nothing west of KC for 1000 miles.

Maybe use the heavy-duty foil next time.


Denver is 612 miles from Kansas City. What could be said is there are no people west of Kansas City, at least none that would have a need for a train running through their farm.
/from Kansas City
 
2009-02-19 5:47:36 PM  

bhcompy: Wizzin:

Just out of curiousity, how long is the project expected to take from start to finish? Seems like I heard 25 years or some crazy number like that and I sort of lost interest.

Well, the worst projected cost I've seen said a total of 81$billion by 2030. So that seems inline with what you are saying.


That is something like 25 miles a year or some such. I wonder why it takes so friggin long.
 
2009-02-19 5:48:20 PM  

GaryPDX: Do you know who else had an efficient train system?


The Japanese?
 
2009-02-19 5:49:12 PM  
Billions and billions wasted on bullets that get fired, helicopters that crash, tanks and humvees that get IED, rampant wastage and corruption bribing people that hate us and financing iraqi clusterfark which has no potential ROI or future benefit to americans... any patriotic american can surely see that this is money well spent defending freedom! those of you who ask for congressional oversight or accountability in the spending of this borrowed money on non-competitive contracts for the military and its subcontractors clearly hate america.

but spend billions on our own country, improving infrastructure, building new green technologies, repaving roads, refurbing schools, upgrading rail lines and other projects which DIRECTLY effect americans and put them to work in the short term, and provide long term competitiveness and facilitate commerce, well, hell, this is just SOCIALISM. You people just want hand outs!
 
2009-02-19 5:49:40 PM  
LA to Vegas train is separate from the high speed rail. It is planned to be a maglev first in segments from Anahiem to Ontario and Primm to Vegas.
 
2009-02-19 5:50:42 PM  
trouzourt

Kansas Voted for McCain by 57%
Unemployment rate Kansas 5.2
and now look at the image where the rail is going. it stops dead at Kansas...


Map's from '05, dude.

Bush hates Kansas.
 
2009-02-19 5:51:02 PM  
This idea that the New Deal did nothing to help...it's just staggering. Yes, WWII finished the job, but the New Deal got the ball rolling and created infrastructure we're still using. Not to mention that GDP graph from before should debunk that idea right off the bat.
 
2009-02-19 5:52:13 PM  
If you were to overlay a map of Blue vs Red states over this one of the proposed construction one might begin to wonder about the bipartisanship BS we've been all heard about.

In reality you would want to have high speed trains zipping through those incredibly boring red states in the middle.
 
2009-02-19 5:52:16 PM  

MentalMoment: LA to Vegas train is separate from the high speed rail. It is planned to be a maglev first in segments from Anahiem to Ontario and Primm to Vegas.


There's no money for all this, The People are tapped out. Are you even paying attention to what's happening in markets across the globe?
 
2009-02-19 5:52:17 PM  

GaryPDX: Do you know who else had an efficient train system?


Isambard Kingdom Brunel?
André Chapelon?
Sir Nigel Gresley?
 
2009-02-19 5:53:01 PM  

Da Bum: GaryPDX: Do you know who else had an efficient train system?

The Japanese?


That was only thanks to Alec Guiness.
 
2009-02-19 5:53:53 PM  

itazurakko: I wish they had a high speed line from Chicago to Champaign on there, parallel or on the same tracks as the current Amtrak.

That thing gets a lot of commuters, what with the big state school here, but if it were possible to get to Chicago in an hour or less, it would change the whole area.


You'd also have to average 140 mph. The other planned rail lines connecting to Chicago average about 75 mph with a top speed of 110 mph.

Conclusion - enjoy your stay on I-57.
 
2009-02-19 5:53:54 PM  

trouzourt: mattharvest
It's bizarre that you think this is "because of the way they voted", when there's absolutely no evidence for it. What on earth does the unemployment rate in any of those cities have to do with their votes, or whether a train should go there?

Kansas Voted for McCain by 57%
Unemployment rate Kansas 5.2
and now look at the image where the rail is going. it stops dead at Kansas...

Now look at the unemployment rate for say


Its sad that when people said Bush didn't care about Black people it was all OK , but when someone says Obama is punishing the voters im suddenly a troll.


Yes, because we all know how much Obama hates Oklahoma, where not a single district was blue. And lets not mention the whole freakin' Southeast which all voted McCain.

/You fail
 
2009-02-19 5:54:13 PM  
I'm not going to read this thread to find out if someone pointed out that the disconnects between the rail lines is the result of geography.

Florda = swampland
WV, Kentucky, Tenn = Rocky Top
etc

Did no one study geography in school?
 
2009-02-19 5:54:49 PM  

Tyee: And just like AMTRAK this will not be self sustaining and we will be subsidizing this forever.fark me you're a dumb one, aren't you? Amtrak actually makes money in the Northeast cooridor, and it almost makes enough to support the entire system. It loses money because of the trains they have to run out where no one lives (in God's country, ie, the Midwest).

The biggest problem with high-speed rail is that we gave all the right of ways to CSX when we privatized CONRAIL. We're probably going to end up buying them back if we don't want every passenger train shunted onto a siding whenever they feel like it.

That and the NIMBY'ers is why it still takes 90 minutes from Philly to Manhattan and 3.5 hours from Manhattan to Boston on the Acela.

 
2009-02-19 5:54:57 PM  

rmoose: Where is the John Galt Line?


the Equalization-of-Opprotunity Act killed that one.
 
2009-02-19 5:55:24 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: To this I say, LOL.

Never going to happen. Even when they build high speed lines they are forced to run them at half speed because the communities it runs through don't like the noise or some such bullshiat.

It would be cool though.


Sonic booms?
 
2009-02-19 5:56:46 PM  

stinkyfishy: If you were to overlay a map of Blue vs Red states over this one of the proposed construction one might begin to wonder about the bipartisanship BS we've been all heard about.

In reality you would want to have high speed trains zipping through those incredibly boring red states in the middle.


You're right. All those McCain voters in Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia and South Carolina have no service at all on the map!

And there are 11 gazillion stops in the Obama states of Nevada and Colorado.
 
2009-02-19 5:57:12 PM  

Oznog: Did you see the Extreme (Bullet) Trainsurfing video? (the "died of leukemia" thing was a hoax- the dude's alive and well and never had leukemia).


Can't anyone spell "lose" correctly anymore?
 
2009-02-19 5:57:14 PM  

Tyee: And just like AMTRAK this will not be self sustaining and we will be subsidizing this forever.
Tax dollars you haven't dreamed of earning yet... are the subject of dreams about how to spend them.

Change you believed in.


Oh I love the tired old argument of "we tried doing it half-assed, and it didn't work... clearly this means that nothing of the sort could ever work." Ya, I remember your kind and that argument... they tried it after Katrina, arguing that FEMA could never work and should be abolished... it isn't systemic failure that you guys like to jump on, no... you'd like to half-ass funding, appoint complete boobs to lead organizations, then point to subsequent failures as indicative of a flaw in the concept itself. biatch about AMTRAK not turning a profit when AMTRAK actually has a rail network... as is, AMTRAK doesn't turn a profit because we lease the tracks from other companies at obscene rates, and we don't even get preferential routing for all our money. Republicans continually use AMTRAK to funnel private businesses huge and unnecessary contracts, then biatch about how it isn't profitable.
 
2009-02-19 5:58:46 PM  

GaryPDX: There's no money for all this, The People are tapped out. Are you even paying attention to what's happening in markets across the globe?


Of course they are... they want to spend like mad while we still have credit, and blame "inefficient areas" when we finally hit our limit. Never mind one look at a mortgage foreclosure or unemployment map dashes those arguments pretty quickly.

You can already hear the rhetoric spinning up in Congress with representatives coming down hard on rural communities for wanting a piece of the pie.
 
2009-02-19 5:59:18 PM  
AW, fark! Those lines into OK and AR will just haul more stickbillies into Fort Worth.
 
2009-02-19 5:59:53 PM  

GaryPDX: MentalMoment: LA to Vegas train is separate from the high speed rail. It is planned to be a maglev first in segments from Anahiem to Ontario and Primm to Vegas.

There's no money for all this, The People are tapped out. Are you even paying attention to what's happening in markets across the globe?


Is that snark or are you just stupid, Gary?

They built a rail line from Philly to Atlantic City 15 or 20 years ago. It paid for itself in the first eight years.

LA to Las Vegas would be a cash cow.

And if you're worried about money, why don't we try cutting the defense budget a little?
 
2009-02-19 6:00:52 PM  

GaryPDX: Jedi_Templar: wmoonfox: Awesome... more and better shiat for the coasts at public expense, while most of the rest of the country lacks even basic transit services. We don't have money to extend services to "environmentally unfriendly" rural areas because we're too busy spending those dollars to make urban areas palatable.

No, it's because there aren't enough people living in states like Wyoming and North Dakota to make building a high speed rail cost effective.

Then they shouldn't have to pay. It won't benefit us either, there's already good Amtrak service and Portland has added 4 new major train lines in the metro area already in the last 5 years. The west side is now connected to Trimet.

Tell me something..what happened to the 286.4 Billion Highway Bill 4 years ago..what happened to that money?

Oh..and WE DON'T HAVE THE FARKING MONEY..:)


The problem with this mentality is that rural people would love to not pay for projects like this, but when it comes time to build a school, they want to come get theirs, when it comes to the fact that per capita police, EMS, and firefighting are higher in suburban and rural areas, they don't want to pay more to get the same response times. Let's be clear on which way the tax revenues generally flow, cities pay huge amounts of taxes, and receive far less back, rural areas tend to pay relative low taxes, then get much more back. When the good people of Eugene no longer accept federal assistance to pay cops, teachers, firefighters, and road crews, then they can get back to me and tell me about how it's not fair... until then, they can stfu.
 
2009-02-19 6:00:53 PM  
This is some seriously old news. That map is 7 years old and has jack shiat to do with the stimulus bill.

Link (new window)
 
2009-02-19 6:01:13 PM  
Fark existing rail lines. Lets open up all that wasted space between the lanes on the Interstate. Through the cites where that space disappears, Make it elevated. It serves a double bonus. It saves the cost of having to buy new land. Having it in a visable area used already by commuters would likely increase ridership. I know if I was stuck in traffic and saw a train fly by me, I would be tempted to try it out.

/the people against this idea seem to me like the people who were against the interstate system; why do we need standardized roads connecting cities? No one would ever use it, why would you need to travel to other cities?
 
2009-02-19 6:02:03 PM  
In looking at that map it looks very disjointed and disconnected unless u live in the eastern seaboard states. Then I notice that its only connected down to jacksonville. The orlando/tampa/miami line isnt connected to jacksonville. This effectively keeps most of Florida disconnected from the rest of the system...stupid...If you are going to go all out with this at least connect orlando and jacksonville, its not that far away.
 
2009-02-19 6:02:11 PM  

GaryPDX: MentalMoment: LA to Vegas train is separate from the high speed rail. It is planned to be a maglev first in segments from Anahiem to Ontario and Primm to Vegas.

There's no money for all this, The People are tapped out. Are you even paying attention to what's happening in markets across the globe?


Has there every been money for any public project? The United States has had public debt since its inception.

I'm just wondering if it will ever be able to pay for itself. And how the heck they are going to get through the Cajon pass (at least not at a crawl).
 
2009-02-19 6:04:49 PM  

firefly212: The problem with this mentality is that rural people would love to not pay for projects like this, but when it comes time to build a school, they want to come get theirs, when it comes to the fact that per capita police, EMS, and firefighting are higher in suburban and rural areas, they don't want to pay more to get the same response times. Let's be clear on which way the tax revenues generally flow, cities pay huge amounts of taxes, and receive far less back, rural areas tend to pay relative low taxes, then get much more back. When the good people of Eugene no longer accept federal assistance to pay cops, teachers, firefighters, and road crews, then they can get back to me and tell me about how it's not fair... until then, they can stfu.


So very VERY this.

I'm so farking tired of listening to people who live in the welfare states telling me how we should spent MY tax money. It's time for metropolitan areas to regain control of this country, instead of being at the mercy of those who geberate little to no tax revenue.
 
2009-02-19 6:04:53 PM  

Igor Jakovsky: In looking at that map it looks very disjointed and disconnected unless u live in the eastern seaboard states. Then I notice that its only connected down to jacksonville. The orlando/tampa/miami line isnt connected to jacksonville. This effectively keeps most of Florida disconnected from the rest of the system...stupid...If you are going to go all out with this at least connect orlando and jacksonville, its not that far away.


Eh, not exactly, if it's the same as the current NE high speed corridor, all "disconnects" mean is that the train won't be doing more than 60mph or so. It's not like the train just stops at the end and that's it... just that the tracks are not sufficiently smooth and footed such that they can deal with higher speeds.
 
2009-02-19 6:06:43 PM  

MentalMoment: GaryPDX: MentalMoment: LA to Vegas train is separate from the high speed rail. It is planned to be a maglev first in segments from Anahiem to Ontario and Primm to Vegas.

There's no money for all this, The People are tapped out. Are you even paying attention to what's happening in markets across the globe?

Has there every been money for any public project? The United States has had public debt since its inception. We shouldn't be spending money why clearly don't have and no foreseeable way of producing it.

I'm just wondering if it will ever be able to pay for itself. And how the heck they are going to get through the Cajon pass (at least not at a crawl).


Yea..but this time we really are tapped out and the world knows it. The global markets are a planetary no confidence vote. We shouldn't be doing all this right now.
 
2009-02-19 6:07:07 PM  

chechcal: This is some seriously old news. That map is 7 years old and has jack shiat to do with the stimulus bill.

Link (new window)


Eh, the map is old, but it still is indicative of where the FRA thinks the money as approved in the stimulus package should go.
 
2009-02-19 6:07:43 PM  

Igor Jakovsky: In looking at that map it looks very disjointed and disconnected unless u live in the eastern seaboard states. Then I notice that its only connected down to jacksonville. The orlando/tampa/miami line isnt connected to jacksonville. This effectively keeps most of Florida disconnected from the rest of the system...stupid...If you are going to go all out with this at least connect orlando and jacksonville, its not that far away.


If you have a little imagination, you can see that that map is stage one in a larger plan that would eventually allow for high-speed rail connection from Boston to Miami and Pittsburgh to Chicago, St Louis to Little Rock and San Antonino to Jacksonville (for instance).
 
2009-02-19 6:08:42 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: I'm so farking tired of listening to people who live in the welfare states telling me how we should spent MY tax money. It's time for metropolitan areas to regain control of this country, instead of being at the mercy of those who geberate little to no tax revenue.


When you rip up your federally-funded transit systems, utilities, schools, and roads, then cut a refund check to the rest of the country with interest, plus economic gains built atop such infrastructure, you can get back to us on how little you benefit from revenue generated by the "welfare states". Until then, join the STFU crowd.
 
2009-02-19 6:08:45 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: I'm so farking tired of listening to people who live in the welfare states telling me how we should spent MY tax money. It's time for metropolitan areas to regain control of this country, instead of being at the mercy of those who geberate little to no tax revenue.


Arr Yea. We need to go back to a City/State Feudal system. The country peasants WILL pay their taxes.
 
2009-02-19 6:09:18 PM  

MadAsshatter: Is there any way in hell that $8 billion would cover this?


Not.
Even.
Close.

/would be surprised if 10x this would cover it
 
2009-02-19 6:09:32 PM  
hmm... still no GoldSpider. pesky things, those facts.
 
2009-02-19 6:09:33 PM  
rails are for cargo.
 
2009-02-19 6:09:45 PM  

Wizzin: dgalvan123: You don't WANT the whole system to be connected. No one is going to take High speed rail from New York To L.A. HSR really has a role to cover distances less than 500 miles or so. Any longer and it is no longer competitive with air travel.

And California voters approved $10 B in bonds to start the CA HSR system. Another $10 B will be raised from private investors, and we hope to get another $10B from the federal government eventually. We are applying for $2B of the $8B in the stimulus package to start construction on grade separations and so forth over the next couple years:

Press Release about requesting stimulus fund use for CA-HSR. (new window) I expect we'll get it, since our system is the furthest along in terms of planning and environmental investigation, AND we now have a voter mandate behind it along with voter approved funding.

Just out of curiousity, how long is the project expected to take from start to finish? Seems like I heard 25 years or some crazy number like that and I sort of lost interest.


Well, the first stage is just from L.A. to San Francisco, with the extended system having branches to San Diego and Sacramento as well. That full, extended system (S.D, L.A., S.F., and Sacramento) is supposed to be finished and be carrying over 100 million passengers per year by 2030. So about 21 years for the whole project. I haven't seen year estimates for the core L.A. to S.F. line, but I'd guess that would be ready at least 5 years earlier.

Press release from after the proposition passed in November. (new window)
Wired article about the CA-HSR prop passing. (new window)
Quick Popular Mechanics article on CA-HSR (new window)

Basically, it's something I hope to ride with my pre-teen children who have not yet been conceived. 1 hour and 10 minutes from L.A. to San Diego. That's about an hour less than it takes to drive without traffic.

Although, the 2030 estimate was made before it was clear how fast federal funding would become available, though. The extra federal funding that looks to be forthcoming could speed things up, potentially. At the time the estimates were made, Obama had not been elected, the stimulus package was still a pie in the sky, and no one knew that the new president would turn out to be a huge supporter of high-speed rail. But HSR was one of the highest wants on the wishlist at change.gov. The people told Obama what they wanted, and he listened. (new window) With this stimulus, the extra $1Billion annually that Obama plans to give to HSR from now on, and the big federal transportation bill that will be going through Congress later this year. . . IN ADDITION to John Kerry's HSR-specific bill which calls for a good amount of funding just for HSR, I think we really have a shot at getting the California system for sure, and hopefully starting a couple others. . . maybe the midwest system with the Chicago hub.
 
2009-02-19 6:10:20 PM  
The "huge red chevy convertible/ red shark" lobbyists are too strong for that line to ever be built and don't get me started on the biatch fest that would eminate from the " bat-country" tourist trap people if a train line were built to help even more people not stop there.
 
2009-02-19 6:10:59 PM  

GaryPDX: Yea..but this time we really are tapped out and the world knows it. The global markets are a planetary no confidence vote. We shouldn't be doing all this right now.


WRONG. This is exactly the time we should be doing it. We need to put people to work, it will bring in revenue in the long run and the President (finally, after eight years) has a mandate to fix the country.

This is New Deal Part II, and if you don't like it, Gary, you only have your boy to blame as he's the one who got us into this mess.

If we (for instance) has spent the money we've spent in Iraq on transportation, we'd already be well on the way to having the best rail system in the world.

Think about that before you post again.
 
2009-02-19 6:11:08 PM  
They should do it like a full-scale game of "Ticket to Ride"
 
2009-02-19 6:11:32 PM  
Dammit. I live in Austin, and the train goes there. SWEET.

However, it doesn't seem to be able to take me out of Texas. DAMMIT.
 
2009-02-19 6:11:32 PM  
images.huffingtonpost.comView Full Size


I'm counting 6 (six!) disjoint railway systems.
Sometimes separated by just a few hundred kilometres.

Seriously, WTF? They've missed the entire point of having a train network.
 
2009-02-19 6:11:52 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: Is that snark or are you just stupid, Gary?

They rebuilt a rail line from Philly to Atlantic City 15 or 20 years ago. It paid for itself in the first eight years.

LA to Las Vegas would be a cash cow.


FTFY.

That particular line from Philly to Atlantic City has been around since the late 1800s, and was rebuilt for Amtrak and NJT service in 1989. (Amtrak discontinued their Atlantic City trains in '95.)
 
2009-02-19 6:11:54 PM  

GaryPDX: MentalMoment: GaryPDX: MentalMoment: LA to Vegas train is separate from the high speed rail. It is planned to be a maglev first in segments from Anahiem to Ontario and Primm to Vegas.

There's no money for all this, The People are tapped out. Are you even paying attention to what's happening in markets across the globe?

Has there every been money for any public project? The United States has had public debt since its inception. We shouldn't be spending money why clearly don't have and no foreseeable way of producing it.

I'm just wondering if it will ever be able to pay for itself. And how the heck they are going to get through the Cajon pass (at least not at a crawl).

Yea..but this time we really are tapped out and the world knows it. The global markets are a planetary no confidence vote. We shouldn't be doing all this right now.


Should we wait until labor costs are back up to engage in infrastructure projects? Hell no. This is a bargain, labor is dirt cheap and we can get people to build long-lasting infrastructure for relatively little. Aside from that, it's needed infrastructure, we've had to bailout airlines repeatedly and subsidize their bankruptcies because there was no viable alternative for rapid transportation. Other projects like energy infrastructure overhaul and pipeline overhauls are just updates... most of the pipelines in the US were actually laid during or before the last WPA. What we need now is to get people in jobs, get them to spend the money they make, and get some manufacturing going again in the US so as those original construction jobs end, they have other (private-sector) employment to go to. The problem with your idea is it doesn't address what we should do... other countries are still buying US debt (a vote of confidence, according to you), but even if they weren't, simply quitting and lying down and dying isn't really any kind of method to fixing things.
 
2009-02-19 6:12:59 PM  
Well, I mean, apart from Oklahoma and Arkansas. On the whole, I'd rather stay in Texas.

Really, laying some track between Austin (or San Antonio) and Houston would be so hard? Come on.
 
2009-02-19 6:13:04 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: This is New Deal Part II, and if you don't like it, Gary, you only have your boy to blame as he's the one who got us into this mess.


Gore? I voted for Gore. What are you talking about?
 
2009-02-19 6:13:26 PM  

GaryPDX: FlashHarry: GaryPDX: No, it's because there aren't enough people living in states like Wyoming and North Dakota to make building a high speed rail cost effective.

Then they shouldn't have to pay.

a slippery slope. this isn't a confederation.

You're right..it's just a Train Robbery.

/bm tsh


i27.tinypic.comView Full Size
 
2009-02-19 6:13:46 PM  
as someone who is going to be driving from Raleigh, NC to near New Orleans for 14 hrs, i say build it. that is a long freakin trip and make it cost about $150 and you will have a fan
 
2009-02-19 6:13:53 PM  
Ricer thread?
 
2009-02-19 6:16:12 PM  

spazzm: I'm counting 6 (six!) disjoint railway systems.
Sometimes separated by just a few hundred kilometres.

Seriously, WTF? They've missed the entire point of having a train network.


High speed connects to regular rail, it just means the tracks are improved (smoother, better track beds) in those areas so trains can go fast... the spaces in between are just lower-speed already existing track. From what I can tell, most of the map is actually existing rail already, the map is just indicative of where the FRA thinks the tracks would most benefit from the upgrade.
 
2009-02-19 6:16:24 PM  

GaryPDX:
Yea..but this time we really are tapped out and the world knows it. The global markets are a planetary no confidence vote. We shouldn't be doing all this right now.


On the contrary. That's the idea behind a stimulus package. Prime the pump. Like going into debt to get through college with the plan to pay off the debt through later higher income.

Could also compare it to building Ryugyong Hotel...
 
2009-02-19 6:16:24 PM  
Dwight_Yeast Quote 2009-02-19 06:07:43 PM
Igor Jakovsky: In looking at that map it looks very disjointed and disconnected unless u live in the eastern seaboard states. Then I notice that its only connected down to jacksonville. The orlando/tampa/miami line isnt connected to jacksonville. This effectively keeps most of Florida disconnected from the rest of the system...stupid...If you are going to go all out with this at least connect orlando and jacksonville, its not that far away.

If you have a little imagination, you can see that that map is stage one in a larger plan that would eventually allow for high-speed rail connection from Boston to Miami and Pittsburgh to Chicago, St Louis to Little Rock and San Antonino to Jacksonville (for instance).


/Thats always been a problem of mine, not much inagination :)
 
2009-02-19 6:16:50 PM  
One thing that I haven't heard about:

IF the rails are upgraded to high speed rails AND the train is upgraded to a high speed train capable of 200+ MPH WILL it still need to sit at a siding somewhere for an hour to let a freight train to pass through?


/we need Sid Meier on this project
 
2009-02-19 6:17:23 PM  

stinkyfishy: If you were to overlay a map of Blue vs Red states over this one of the proposed construction one might begin to wonder about the bipartisanship BS we've been all heard about.

In reality you would want to have high speed trains zipping through those incredibly boring red states in the middle.


No. HSR is only effective over distances less than 500 miles. Greater than that and you lose the "high speed" benefit because it's going to take you 4.5 hour plus. You take airplanes if you need to go farther.

And it might interest you to know that the map was developed over more than ten years across several administrations of the U.S. Department of Transportation. It's based on population density and known miles-traveled numbers.

But hey, pretend it's an evil left-wing plot if you like.
 
2009-02-19 6:18:09 PM  

GaryPDX: Dwight_Yeast: I'm so farking tired of listening to people who live in the welfare states telling me how we should spent MY tax money. It's time for metropolitan areas to regain control of this country, instead of being at the mercy of those who geberate little to no tax revenue.

Arr Yea. We need to go back to a City/State Feudal system. The country peasants WILL pay their taxes.


Okay, so you r really are stupid. It's not the "peasants" who generate the bulk of this countries' tax revenue, it's the urban areas. Here in Pennsylvania, Philly and Pittsburgh generate 90% of the tax revenue, but we only get 60% of it back, and then we have to listen to all the people in the center of the state whine whenever we ask for money to build schools and fix roads. They tend to ignore that it was our money to begin with.

Similarly, the big square states in the middle of this country get much more money from the Federal Gov't than they pay in taxes. Don't believe me? check out this chart
 
2009-02-19 6:18:13 PM  
And cry us a farking river about your bloated real estate bubble that have pretty much precipitated this entire mess. If you can sit there an throw around the "welfare state" moniker like it still means anything while you stick your hand out for federal money to keep your $500K mortgage on $100K worth of property, you're a jackass of the highest order.

Your financial institutions are dead in the water, everyone from bankers to auto-makers to homeowners has their hands out to collect from the community chest, and you have the gall to talk shiat about the cost/benefit of tax revenue expenditure? Fark you.
 
2009-02-19 6:19:39 PM  

spazzm: Seriously, WTF? They've missed the entire point of having a train network.


No, it is the entire point. To get to the places that you would take a regional jet to get to where there is going to be a small difference between train and plane travel time. A businessman is not going to spend the 24+ hours it would take to get from New York to LA on a train.
 
2009-02-19 6:20:04 PM  
Awesome!

/public transport: keeping us safe from terrorism
//and you may actually lose a few pounds, fatboy
 
2009-02-19 6:20:42 PM  

GaryPDX: Gore? I voted for Gore. What are you talking about?


No, the one you've been supporting all along, you chicken hawk.
 
2009-02-19 6:21:36 PM  

trouzourt: Its sad that when people said Bush didn't care about Black people it was all OK , but when someone says Obama is punishing the voters im suddenly a troll.


I won't call you a troll, because that word typically implies that you are being purposefully ignorant or purposefully inciting controversy. I don't believe that. I think you are truly ignorant, and just don't realize it.
Seriously, as has been said many times over, look at the date on that map you posted. Also, look at the map that alywa posted right after you. Now, tell us again how this is all Obama's fault.


/should I really be wasting time on such ignorance?
 
2009-02-19 6:25:26 PM  

MentalMoment: GaryPDX:
Yea..but this time we really are tapped out and the world knows it. The global markets are a planetary no confidence vote. We shouldn't be doing all this right now.

On the contrary. That's the idea behind a stimulus package. Prime the pump. Like going into debt to get through college with the plan to pay off the debt through later higher income.

Could also compare it to building Ryugyong Hotel...


This is a fallacy..at some point you actually have to dig out of the hole. You can't keep setting up new "credit cards" and endless "money Parties". We're there. No more revolving credit cards. Is that really what you want? To go back to a fast and loose credit driven economy? That's nuts..it's a finite situation and ends with a gigantc train wreck.

This merry go round has to stop and America has to start producing again and as long as the Fed is dicking around with one Trick Pony Bill after another Bill, everyone sits back and watches. Your evil rich people are the same people as the private investors. They're leaving with their wallets and long as the Fed is doinking around and the same people, with the same fingerprints, are still handling the money.
 
2009-02-19 6:25:45 PM  

DigitalCoffee: One thing that I haven't heard about:

IF the rails are upgraded to high speed rails AND the train is upgraded to a high speed train capable of 200+ MPH WILL it still need to sit at a siding somewhere for an hour to let a freight train to pass through?


That will be a problem for those states that want to convert existing passenger rail systems to HSR (like the proposed Midwest system with Chicago at the hub). It is also an issue that the Acela trains have to deal with in the Northeast corridor.

In the case of the California system, most of the track through the central valley will be brand new and dedicated to the High Speed Passenger rail. It will also be completely grade-separated, meaning all crossings with roads will have a bridge for the cars so the train doesn't even have to slow down. There will be sections in urban areas of S.F. and L.A. where the train shares tracks with freight lines, though, so along certain sections the average speeds will be lower.
 
2009-02-19 6:27:18 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: GaryPDX: Gore? I voted for Gore. What are you talking about?

No, the one you've been supporting all along, you chicken hawk.


In all of 8 years I've only had two things good to say about BushCo..is that what you're referring to?
 
2009-02-19 6:27:56 PM  

MentalMoment: Could also compare it to building Ryugyong Hotel...


I would love to hear you explain how the Stimulus Bill is like building a 100-story hotel in a country where tourists aren't allowed.

This should be EXTREMELY interesting.
 
2009-02-19 6:28:31 PM  
dgalvan123

Thanks. I will ride to Sacramento and back just for kicks. I just wish the whole thing would hurry up and get built. Twenty plus miles a year seems really, really slow.
 
2009-02-19 6:29:02 PM  
No Farking Way! I never thought I would see the day when there would be a high-speed rail line to Newport News.
 
2009-02-19 6:29:17 PM  

Deranged Mutant Killer Monster Snow Goon: Dwight_Yeast: Is that snark or are you just stupid, Gary?

They rebuilt a rail line from Philly to Atlantic City 15 or 20 years ago. It paid for itself in the first eight years.

LA to Las Vegas would be a cash cow.

FTFY.

That particular line from Philly to Atlantic City has been around since the late 1800s, and was rebuilt for Amtrak and NJT service in 1989. (Amtrak discontinued their Atlantic City trains in '95.)


and now there is this: www.acestrain.com (still NJT)
 
2009-02-19 6:29:23 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: Igor Jakovsky: In looking at that map it looks very disjointed and disconnected unless u live in the eastern seaboard states. Then I notice that its only connected down to jacksonville. The orlando/tampa/miami line isnt connected to jacksonville. This effectively keeps most of Florida disconnected from the rest of the system...stupid...If you are going to go all out with this at least connect orlando and jacksonville, its not that far away.

If you have a little imagination, you can see that that map is stage one in a larger plan that would eventually allow for high-speed rail connection from Boston to Miami and Pittsburgh to Chicago, St Louis to Little Rock and San Antonino to Jacksonville (for instance).


I was looking at how much it would cost me to go from Birmingham to Miami via Amtrack a while back and was kind of taken aback by the route I would have been forced to take. Birmingham -> Atlanta -> Washington D.C. -> Miami. It would be nice to get a route that takes a little more of a direct route.
 
2009-02-19 6:31:58 PM  

boko: I was looking at how much it would cost me to go from Birmingham to Miami via Amtrack a while back and was kind of taken aback by the route I would have been forced to take. Birmingham -> Atlanta -> Washington D.C. -> Miami. It would be nice to get a route that takes a little more of a direct route.


I would have to drive 3 hours to reach an Amtrak train, and I'm in a larger city than Birmingham.
 
2009-02-19 6:32:24 PM  

MentalMoment: GaryPDX: MentalMoment: LA to Vegas train is separate from the high speed rail. It is planned to be a maglev first in segments from Anahiem to Ontario and Primm to Vegas.

There's no money for all this, The People are tapped out. Are you even paying attention to what's happening in markets across the globe?

Has there every been money for any public project? The United States has had public debt since its inception.

I'm just wondering if it will ever be able to pay for itself. And how the heck they are going to get through the Cajon pass (at least not at a crawl).


High-speed trains elsewhere in the world travel on specially designed rights-of-way that include grades that would normally be prohibitive to freight trains (think above 4%, the steepest track on Cajon Pass is about 3% and the rest are all 2.2%.) The key is that the track needs to be straight. So yes, HSR through Cajon is doable if a completely new alignment is built for it.
 
2009-02-19 6:32:48 PM  

GaryPDX: This merry go round has to stop and America has to start producing again


If you mean "start producing again" as in "regain our manufacturing base" then you're living in your own little world. That boat sailed in 1929, when we were already losing manufacturing jobs to Japan and Czechoslovakia. We got a temporary reprieve from the War and the pent-up spending afterward, but it's all been downhill since then.

There's no way you're going to get Americans to work for competitive wages, BTW, as the Chinese can always make it cheaper.

We're a post-industrial nation, and the sooner all of you who are living in the past embrace that, the quicker we can move into the future.
 
2009-02-19 6:33:18 PM  

dgalvan123: It is also an issue that the Acela trains have to deal with in the Northeast corridor.


All amtrak trains have the right of way over NJ Transit on our part of the NE corridor.
/leaving now to get my slow moving commuter train on the NE corridor for my 90 min ride home behind all of the Amtrak trains
 
2009-02-19 6:36:07 PM  

boko: I was looking at how much it would cost me to go from Birmingham to Miami via Amtrack a while back and was kind of taken aback by the route I would have been forced to take. Birmingham -> Atlanta -> Washington D.C. -> Miami. It would be nice to get a route that takes a little more of a direct route.


Yeah, I looked into going to Boston or Chicago via train and it's A) insanely expensive (almost as much as flying) and B) slow as hell. Even getting to NYC on the train from Philly is more expensive than driving, if you have a car that gets half-descent gas mileage.
 
2009-02-19 6:40:00 PM  

Stoj: You'd also have to average 140 mph. The other planned rail lines connecting to Chicago average about 75 mph with a top speed of 110 mph.


Which is pretty freaking sad when you consider it.

I have to admit I do miss the Shinkansen. It sure beats the hell out of planes for this type of distance.
 
2009-02-19 6:43:36 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: Even getting to NYC on the train from Philly is more expensive than driving, if you have a car that gets half-descent gas mileage.


i'll share a secret, buy your ticket for the stop before or after your destination city if its a trip between major cities.

i used to take the train from NYC to harrisburg all the time. that ticket is about 70 percent of the cost of the NYC to philly train...yet you sit on the same train, same seats...so whenever i have had to go to philly, i just get the train ticket for the next city that train is going to, and hop off/on at 30th street.

/Also works for boston and DC.
 
2009-02-19 6:44:58 PM  
I like. Could use frequently
 
2009-02-19 6:46:49 PM  

blindy the pirate: Fark existing rail lines. Lets open up all that wasted space between the lanes on the Interstate.


Certainly if you want to have serious high speed lines like other modern countries have, that means dedicated electric lines, so yeah, new tracks. THAT is how you'd be able to get decent speeds and no waiting on the siding for freight.

I take Amtrak on occasion, and while it's better than nothing, it's laughable. The train is routinely up to an hour late, there are TWO per day, and if the train is an hour late that means it loses its "slot" in the freight schedule, so you bet you will be sitting patiently on a siding on the South Side extreme burbs watching Metra fly by.

Plus, the Illinois Central tracks don't go to Union Station, so you get to do the big zigzag maneuver for an additional 20 minutes or so upon arrival downtown.

To think that I considered a 15 minute wait for a train "out there" when I was a kid... living on the edges of the Tokyo metropolis. I was spoiled as heck. If the train is more than 2 minutes late they apologized over the PA system.
 
2009-02-19 6:47:52 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: MentalMoment: Could also compare it to building Ryugyong Hotel...

I would love to hear you explain how the Stimulus Bill is like building a 100-story hotel in a country where tourists aren't allowed.

This should be EXTREMELY interesting.


North Korean leadership envisioned the project as a channel for Western investors to step into the marketplace. (wiki)

If enough people use the trains then great. But if they don't then you have a similar outcome.


GaryPDX: This is a fallacy..at some point you actually have to dig out of the hole.


Not a fallacy. Keynesian Effect. Downside is inflation. And that's what I expect next.
 
2009-02-19 6:49:41 PM  

dgalvan123: DigitalCoffee: One thing that I haven't heard about:

IF the rails are upgraded to high speed rails AND the train is upgraded to a high speed train capable of 200+ MPH WILL it still need to sit at a siding somewhere for an hour to let a freight train to pass through?


That will be a problem for those states that want to convert existing passenger rail systems to HSR (like the proposed Midwest system with Chicago at the hub). It is also an issue that the Acela trains have to deal with in the Northeast corridor.

In the case of the California system, most of the track through the central valley will be brand new and dedicated to the High Speed Passenger rail. It will also be completely grade-separated, meaning all crossings with roads will have a bridge for the cars so the train doesn't even have to slow down. There will be sections in urban areas of S.F. and L.A. where the train shares tracks with freight lines, though, so along certain sections the average speeds will be lower.


I guess that it's going to be a mixed bag then :-/ Seems kinda pointless to upgrade an area to high speed if it can't be used as high speed. Hopefully someone will get smart and at least leave those areas/sections for last to upgrade.
 
2009-02-19 6:51:05 PM  

MentalMoment: North Korean leadership envisioned the project as a channel for Western investors to step into the marketplace. (wiki)

If enough people use the trains then great. But if they don't then you have a similar outcome.


Again, you're using a false equivalency. The only way you could compare the two is if we were to build a high-speed rail network and then not allow anyone to use it.
 
2009-02-19 6:52:07 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: To this I say, LOL.

Never going to happen. Even when they build high speed lines they are forced to run them at half speed because the communities it runs through don't like the noise or some such bullshiat.

It would be cool though.


While I would love for all of these rails to work, I know from personal experience that you're probably right, the California plan has been around for over a decade. It's just on and off, if it isn't a budget problem, it's a problem with one of the cities that the train needs to go through. We were actually supposed to get started on the California line already, but at the moment Menlo Park is throwing a whiny tantrum.
 
2009-02-19 6:52:57 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: MentalMoment: North Korean leadership envisioned the project as a channel for Western investors to step into the marketplace. (wiki)

If enough people use the trains then great. But if they don't then you have a similar outcome.

Again, you're using a false equivalency. The only way you could compare the two is if we were to build a high-speed rail network and then not allow anyone to use it.


Not allowing anyone to use it is a condition you introduced.
 
2009-02-19 7:00:21 PM  

Ack_Ack:

Personally I have always wanted to be able to travel from Seattle to Eugene in a timely manner.

Oh the things to do in Eugene!


As someone currently living in Eugene, I appreciate your sarcasm. Also, the faster I can get to Portland or Seattle, the happier I'll be.

Of course, I'll be out of Eugene before this rail is built

/The line extending down to Eugene has DeFazio's porky fingerprints all over it
 
2009-02-19 7:00:56 PM  

trouzourt: mattharvest
It's bizarre that you think this is "because of the way they voted", when there's absolutely no evidence for it. What on earth does the unemployment rate in any of those cities have to do with their votes, or whether a train should go there?

Kansas Voted for McCain by 57%
Unemployment rate Kansas 5.2
and now look at the image where the rail is going. it stops dead at Kansas...
-------------------------
Yes, yes it does stop dead in Kansas. And the map was published in 2005. During the Bush administration. You don't seriously think Obama's team dreamed all this stuff up in less than a month, do you?

Now look at the unemployment rate for say


Its sad that when people said Bush didn't care about Black people it was all OK , but when someone says Obama is punishing the voters im suddenly a troll.

 
2009-02-19 7:01:40 PM  
uh, whoops... my comment should have been at the bottom of that. oh, well
 
2009-02-19 7:03:58 PM  

Greek: Its sad that when people said Bush didn't care about Black people it was all OK , but when someone says Obama is punishing the voters im suddenly a troll.


If you read the map, you'll see it's from 2005. If you're going to blame Obama for the way this map is made, you might as well blame him for 9/11.
 
2009-02-19 7:08:13 PM  

Greek: Its sad that when people said Bush didn't care about Black people it was all OK , but when someone says Obama is punishing the voters im suddenly a troll.


Add to that the fact that the Southeastern states which were big McCain voters are well represented on that map and the mountain west Obama states of Colorado, Nevada, and New Mexico aren't represented at all puts a gaping hole in your argument.
 
2009-02-19 7:13:47 PM  

GoSurfing: astrotri

"Florda = swampland..."

same reason why the eugene line doesn't go down to SF (the old tracks line got wiped out by a mudslide last winter) and why there's nothing through the middle of the country. Can you imagine trying to build another rail line over the Rocky Mountains? And at highspeed, all to get to Utah? No way.

 
2009-02-19 7:14:13 PM  
Thank god, we're finally looking at mass transit. There's hope for us yet!

There's an economic effect that I almost never see mentioned in these "how long can we pretend the New Deal didn't work" arguments: building infrastructure is an investment in American businesses.

Businesses rely on roads and our interstate highway system for moving goods around. Businesses rely on a stable power grid.

Upgrading our power grid and building a decent rail system are investments in our economy that we can't afford not to make. Oil production isn't going to increase and worldwide demand isn't decreasing in the long term. And many of the countries producing it don't like us. And the price gets artificially inflated by speculation. When the next oil crunch hits, I'd like it if we had some options as a country besides "grind our economy to a screeching halt."
 
2009-02-19 7:18:11 PM  
$8 billion for high-speed rail (new window)

I hate to be a wet blanket, but $8 billion isn't enough to build even a small fraction of what's on this map. It would cost a hundred times as much.

Also, I don't know why there's this obsession with instantly building a lot of high speed rail. It has to be a comprehensive plan that links subways and light rail and commuter rail and regular passenger rail. Building a lot of high speed rail without building the entire rail transport web is like putting a modern airport at the end of a dirt road. Surely there's a more comprehensive vision out there somewhere?
 
2009-02-19 7:18:19 PM  

pudding7: Why is there no LA to Vegas line yet? Just build it right in the middle of the I-15 freeway, there's like 100' between lanes. Then charge $40 each way.


Wouldn't be enough.

Based on the estimated maglev prices (250 miles at $12M/mi), the trains would need to carry 3,000 people per day in each direction for 30 years at a price of $150 per pax r/t (avg price of a WN fare). If the entire ride to 90 minutes (250mph + stops, turns) and you could put 75 people on each train, you'd need 40 r/ts per day, or roughly 4 trains (not running 24/7).

I'm all for high speed rail but its not economical right now. I'd rather see 120mph trains and leave the "bullet" part aside for now.
 
2009-02-19 7:22:57 PM  

ringersol: cmon you pork-loving political bastards, at -least- give me Detroit-Columbus.


Hell Amtrak can't even do Detroit-Toledo, let along Columbus. They have a rail line running from Detroit to Toledo, but they put you on a bus and drive you from Toledo to Detroit while following the rail line. farking odd.
 
2009-02-19 7:23:45 PM  
These will never be built because of opposition from the thousands of constituencies that these rail lines go through. Want proof? Look at the dismal failure of the Maryland Purple Line, a 16-mile piece of track that has been fought over for years and years and years.

The only reason the original railroad was built was because the Feds claimed eminent domain and to hell with the voters. Good luck with that nowadays.
 
2009-02-19 7:26:24 PM  

GoSurfing: what_now

"The New Deal was a series of spending packages, and it got us out of the depression. Spending money on public works 1) creates jobs and B) creates nifty things like trains and bridges and electricity in Tennessee."

I don't know what revisionist history you smoke, but WWII ended the depression.

Sorry libs, I know you hate having the truth ruin your pipedreams of spending our way to greatness.


Just like the Iraq war ended this recession?

/oh wait...
//what crack are you smoking? or do you subscribe to the broken window theory.
 
2009-02-19 7:31:29 PM  
I think rails are doomed as a structural problem of how we lay out cities out. When I was in Europe live was sweet, I was in London, got around town on the tube, never even got on a car or bus. took the train over to Paris, it was beautiful so I walked most places, road the subway once or twice.

In America our cities don't work that way. With the exception of commuters and a few mass transit friendly cities, most American cities require you to have a car. So if say I want to go to the coast for a long weekend, I can't just pack a duffel, hop a train and get around fine without a car. I'd have to pay for a cab from the station to the hotel, I'm limited in my ability to get to restraunts, museums, etc. So either I pay cab fare out the ass, rent a car or drive my car there. Most of the time driving my car is the best bet.

Trains in America will catch on when I can drive down to the train station, have my car loaded onto a carrier attached to my train, and get my family and a vehicle transported at a reasonable price and reasonable speed.

/my friend took the train from Pitt to Detroit to visit me once. Left at 5 pm, showed up in Det at 3 am. I drove him home, we left Det at 4 pm, dropped him in Pitt at around 8 PM, grabbed dinner, I was back in Det by 2 am. fark you Amtrak.
 
2009-02-19 7:34:35 PM  

archichris: So if I get on a train in Cincinnati, the viable destinations (which would make it worth the huge ticket price and having to rent a car on the other end) are Cleveland and Minneapolis......?

FAIL


fark you... I would love to take the train to Columbus/Cleveland/Indianapolis/Chicago
 
2009-02-19 7:44:40 PM  

hershmire: These will never be built because of opposition from the thousands of constituencies that these rail lines go through. Want proof? Look at the dismal failure of the Maryland Purple Line, a 16-mile piece of track that has been fought over for years and years and years.

The only reason the original railroad was built was because the Feds claimed eminent domain and to hell with the voters. Good luck with that nowadays.


It's a neat theory, but like I pointed out earlier, most of what they are talking about is upgrading existing rail... so your argument, while it would be valid in some other scenarios, is not particularly relevant.
 
2009-02-19 7:45:07 PM  

GoSurfing: I dislike FDR because he chose to enslave America in wasteful bureaucracy. BTW, what you many fail to see, is the New Deal was the beginning of the end for this country.


FDR's presidency marked the beginning of the United States being a superpower!!

And when you say WW2 build the middle class, I'd posit that the GI bill build the middle class, because it not only opened up educational opportunities to people who never would have considered higher ed, it also kept us from having a massive influx of dismissed soldiers and no jobs for them.

Government isn't ALWAYS the problem. Bad government is.
 
2009-02-19 7:48:55 PM  

ha-ha-guy: I think rails are doomed as a structural problem of how we lay out cities out. When I was in Europe live was sweet, I was in London, got around town on the tube, never even got on a car or bus. took the train over to Paris, it was beautiful so I walked most places, road the subway once or twice.

In America our cities don't work that way. With the exception of commuters and a few mass transit friendly cities, most American cities require you to have a car. So if say I want to go to the coast for a long weekend, I can't just pack a duffel, hop a train and get around fine without a car. I'd have to pay for a cab from the station to the hotel, I'm limited in my ability to get to restraunts, museums, etc. So either I pay cab fare out the ass, rent a car or drive my car there. Most of the time driving my car is the best bet.

Trains in America will catch on when I can drive down to the train station, have my car loaded onto a carrier attached to my train, and get my family and a vehicle transported at a reasonable price and reasonable speed.

/my friend took the train from Pitt to Detroit to visit me once. Left at 5 pm, showed up in Det at 3 am. I drove him home, we left Det at 4 pm, dropped him in Pitt at around 8 PM, grabbed dinner, I was back in Det by 2 am. fark you Amtrak.


A good part of why trains end up late in the US, but they seem so reliable in other countries is that AMTRAK doesn't actually own much rail. Whereas in GB, France, and Germany, there are national rail networks, we have no such thing in the US... Amtrak pays huge sums (dictated by politicians) to companies like Union Pacific, all so they can use the rail, but then when a track owner sees it's own train, they can just force Amtrak trains to sit and idle, frequently for hours at a time, before letting them go... then when they get to the next junction, the track owner says "you're late, so you're going to have to wait for another train." It's a total scam, a waste of the taxpayers money, and a gift to track owners.... but people here in the US seem to think that there's no better way.
 
2009-02-19 7:48:59 PM  

canyoneer: $8 billion for high-speed rail (new window)

I hate to be a wet blanket, but $8 billion isn't enough to build even a small fraction of what's on this map. It would cost a hundred times as much.


I believe it's to upgrade existing rail lines.
 
2009-02-19 7:50:30 PM  

what_now: GoSurfing: I dislike FDR because he chose to enslave America in wasteful bureaucracy. BTW, what you many fail to see, is the New Deal was the beginning of the end for this country.

FDR's presidency marked the beginning of the United States being a superpower!!

And when you say WW2 build the middle class, I'd posit that the GI bill build the middle class, because it not only opened up educational opportunities to people who never would have considered higher ed, it also kept us from having a massive influx of dismissed soldiers and no jobs for them.

Government isn't ALWAYS the problem. Bad government is.


Their kind make no distinction between incompetent government and efficient government... it's all bad to them, until they want something.
 
2009-02-19 8:01:50 PM  
the big dig (Boston's big hole in the ground) cost something like $14 Billion dollars and managed to ease traffic for a whopping 12 miles, so i think the $8 Billion dollar price tag might be a tad unrealistic to upgrade the rail system.
 
2009-02-19 8:07:25 PM  

joethebastard: Thank god, we're finally looking at mass transit. There's hope for us yet!

There's an economic effect that I almost never see mentioned in these "how long can we pretend the New Deal didn't work" arguments: building infrastructure is an investment in American businesses.

Businesses rely on roads and our interstate highway system for moving goods around. Businesses rely on a stable power grid.

Upgrading our power grid and building a decent rail system are investments in our economy that we can't afford not to make. Oil production isn't going to increase and worldwide demand isn't decreasing in the long term. And many of the countries producing it don't like us. And the price gets artificially inflated by speculation. When the next oil crunch hits, I'd like it if we had some options as a country besides "grind our economy to a screeching halt."


socialist.
 
2009-02-19 8:30:26 PM  
Wonderful. I can't wait.
 
2009-02-19 8:38:19 PM  

GoSurfing: Regarding this rail, I find it hilarious that there isn't a connector from Orlando to Jacksonville. Alabama can go to New York, Miami...no not yours.

This makes zero-sense from an engineering perspective. Florida is flat, easy to build on. You're not crossing sub-Appalachian hills or anything.

what_now
"Government isn't ALWAYS the problem. Bad government is."

By all means, you are correct. However, when you give the government more control, you give more opportunity for bad government to exist.

The market had to bounce back sometime, and Roosevelt had been elected 4 times. Don't you think in a 12 year span, the US economy would have bounced back somewhat to show a positive trend on the graph posted in the thread? Why isn't it possible this upward trend was not congruent of FDR's presidency?


There is a connector, it just isn't high-speed. Florida's flatness is in large part because of it's swampiness... use your engineering standpoint to consider the difficulties of properly footing tracks in swampland, now consider the additional challenge of not only making them kinda strong, but strong enough to have millions of tons moving at 100mph. Not so easy.

Contrary to popular belief, the market does not "have to" bounce back sometime... countries fail, economies fail and need to totally restructure sometimes... there's no guarantee that waiting will solve problems, the one guarantee that does come with waiting is that people will needlessly go hungry, without medical care, and without housing, subsequently dying, the longer it takes to turn things around, making the "wait and see" strategy a possibility only as long as we don't care about how many people die as a result.
 
2009-02-19 8:45:46 PM  
If this money is used for integrating and upgrading it might make a big difference.
Case in point: Kansas City Airport is about 30 miles from the Amtrak station, and Greyhound is at some third location at least ten miles from the other two.
Portland Oregon on the other hand, has light rail that can take you straight from the airport to the Amtrak and Greyhound station on the other side of the city.
Also, if Amtrak could hire a nice computer programmer to write a pathfinding algorithm for their website that would be swell.
 
2009-02-19 8:57:11 PM  

vernonFL: You know who else made the trains run on time?


content.ytmnd.comView Full Size
 
2009-02-19 9:01:57 PM  
I, for one, celebrate the rail between Houston and New Orleans. I live in Houston and lemme tell you... You do NOT want to drive back from New Orleans at the end of the weekend. No sir.
 
2009-02-19 9:05:52 PM  
Love the map. Is that a hurricane off the GA coast?
 
2009-02-19 9:22:42 PM  

firefly212: hershmire: These will never be built because of opposition from the thousands of constituencies that these rail lines go through. Want proof? Look at the dismal failure of the Maryland Purple Line, a 16-mile piece of track that has been fought over for years and years and years.

The only reason the original railroad was built was because the Feds claimed eminent domain and to hell with the voters. Good luck with that nowadays.

It's a neat theory, but like I pointed out earlier, most of what they are talking about is upgrading existing rail... so your argument, while it would be valid in some other scenarios, is not particularly relevant.


"Upgrading existing rails" doesn't just mean putting Rearden steel rails down over old ones. It means building banked curves, noise barriers, bypass lines, and myriad other complexities to have thousands of tons of steel move about 100 mph. Aside from the building costs and extra land needed, the potential noise and safety concerns (for people and wildlife) would have the NIMBY folks up in arms.

Installing high-speed rail lines ain't going to be a picnic. If it were, we'd have a nation-wide network already in place.
 
2009-02-19 9:39:24 PM  
Please, take a second to overlay this map over the current Amtrak map, most of the lines are already in use at 70MPH, this will raise them up to 130MPH.

For example: Buffalo, and Cleveland will still be connected, the train will go from NYC to Buffalo at 130, drop down to 70 until Cleveland and then pick up to 130 again. The idea is to have the train run fast between nearby high density areas, not to connect NYC to Chicago.

Now, I personally would love to see 130 from NY to LA, but it's not going to happen. I would also like to see a direct connection (even at 70MPH) from the east coast to Dallas (not via Chicago), but the last time that was proposed, the idiots in congress had a seizure. (You would think that Boston, NYC, Philly, DC and Atlanta might want to connect to Memphis, Dallas, Little Rock, OKC and Phoenix) [Gee, NYC to Phoenix? No one ever takes that trip, duh]
 
2009-02-19 9:39:32 PM  

hershmire: firefly212: hershmire: These will never be built because of opposition from the thousands of constituencies that these rail lines go through. Want proof? Look at the dismal failure of the Maryland Purple Line, a 16-mile piece of track that has been fought over for years and years and years.

The only reason the original railroad was built was because the Feds claimed eminent domain and to hell with the voters. Good luck with that nowadays.

It's a neat theory, but like I pointed out earlier, most of what they are talking about is upgrading existing rail... so your argument, while it would be valid in some other scenarios, is not particularly relevant.

"Upgrading existing rails" doesn't just mean putting Rearden steel rails down over old ones. It means building banked curves, noise barriers, bypass lines, and myriad other complexities to have thousands of tons of steel move about 100 mph. Aside from the building costs and extra land needed, the potential noise and safety concerns (for people and wildlife) would have the NIMBY folks up in arms.

Installing high-speed rail lines ain't going to be a picnic. If it were, we'd have a nation-wide network already in place.


It's my understanding that most of the original easements for the rail lines included 12 feet to either side of the track... from the mix of rails I've ridden, that seemed like it would be enough room for the finished product of the track, footings, and wall (though possibly not enough room for the construction). I don't think it's a picnic by any means, but I don't think there's so much of a substantial perception difference between high speed and regular rail that the problem is going to be NIMBY so much as the problem in the engineering and actual upgrading. That's not to say people are going to be happy with it, just that they arent gonna have too much legal footing to block owners of rail from upgrading existing track.
 
2009-02-19 9:41:48 PM  

Joe USer: Please, take a second to overlay this map over the current Amtrak map, most of the lines are already in use at 70MPH, this will raise them up to 130MPH.

For example: Buffalo, and Cleveland will still be connected, the train will go from NYC to Buffalo at 130, drop down to 70 until Cleveland and then pick up to 130 again. The idea is to have the train run fast between nearby high density areas, not to connect NYC to Chicago.

Now, I personally would love to see 130 from NY to LA, but it's not going to happen. I would also like to see a direct connection (even at 70MPH) from the east coast to Dallas (not via Chicago), but the last time that was proposed, the idiots in congress had a seizure. (You would think that Boston, NYC, Philly, DC and Atlanta might want to connect to Memphis, Dallas, Little Rock, OKC and Phoenix) [Gee, NYC to Phoenix? No one ever takes that trip, duh]


The thing of it is, you can make that trip now... and after the upgrades, you'll be able to make that trip even faster... when youre on the fast segments, you'll go at a good clip, when you are on the unupgraded track, you'll just be going at regular speeds. It's not like the plan is to blow up all the existing track or anything.
 
2009-02-19 9:50:45 PM  

timujin: Shostie: Here's a better image of the map: Link (new window)

Am I the only one who finds it odd that all of the cities are where they're supposed to be except for Houston, which is about 100 miles too far inland?

/yeah, probably...


Apparently I missed when Raleigh moved about 120 miles Northeast, the "Hampton Roads" area moved about 80 miles North, and the state of Tennessee started cooperating with the Atlantic Ocean in compacting the state of North Carolina.

That's just my local area.

Your point was?
 
2009-02-19 10:07:53 PM  
If we're going to do this, we better do it right: Maglev.

/somehow, I don't think we'll do this right
 
2009-02-19 10:19:11 PM  

WALMART.saves: If we're going to do this, we better do it right: Maglev.

/somehow, I don't think we'll do this right


why is that "right"? that just sounds expensive.

retrofittin' the preexisting rail lines is a lot cheaper than building maglev lines across thousands and thousands of miles. is the increased speed really worth what it'll cost? sounds kinda law of diminishing returns-ish to me, as cool as the tech may be.
 
2009-02-19 10:25:14 PM  

trouzourt: mattharvest
trouzourt: ....

You're not really familiar with the purpose of high-speed rail, are you?

The concept is that you put rail in between destinations that people are prone to travel between, not any destination you want. Far more people travel to-from Washington, D.C./New York than, say, a random city in the mid-west and another random city in the north-west.


Look at the unemployment rates in those "random" cities. If there is a viable option for labor and business to move there, why would they not take it? this rail system could have created a new boom for the central states.. but Because of the way they voted they are getting punished. thats change we can believe in.


Just dumb.
 
2009-02-19 10:26:06 PM  

brynaldo: trouzourt: mattharvest
trouzourt: ....

You're not really familiar with the purpose of high-speed rail, are you?

The concept is that you put rail in between destinations that people are prone to travel between, not any destination you want. Far more people travel to-from Washington, D.C./New York than, say, a random city in the mid-west and another random city in the north-west.


Look at the unemployment rates in those "random" cities. If there is a viable option for labor and business to move there, why would they not take it? this rail system could have created a new boom for the central states.. but Because of the way they voted they are getting punished. thats change we can believe in.

Just dumb.


seconded.
 
2009-02-19 10:27:36 PM  

WALMART.saves: If we're going to do this, we better do it right: Maglev.

/somehow, I don't think we'll do this right


Disagree. Maglev is prohibitively expensive to construct and maintain, is extremely energy-intensive and really isn't very far past the experimental stage at this point. The best way to go at this point is off-the-shelf HSR technology à la TGV, ICE or Shinkansen. Almost as fast and not nearly as many operational headaches (for example, get any dirt or debris on the maglev guideway and you're farked,) all for a fraction of the price of a maglev track. Not to mention the fact that maglevs will have zero compatibility whatsoever with the existing rail system.

In short, maglevs are nice and flashy, but are not the way to go if you're to build an integrated, efficient, environmentally-friendly rail system.
 
2009-02-19 10:32:36 PM  
ALL the stimulas money couldn't build all this.
 
2009-02-19 10:35:17 PM  
yeah, like any of this will actually be built.
 
2009-02-19 10:36:19 PM  

ha-ha-guy: I think rails are doomed as a structural problem of how we lay out cities out. When I was in Europe live was sweet, I was in London, got around town on the tube, never even got on a car or bus. took the train over to Paris, it was beautiful so I walked most places, road the subway once or twice.

In America our cities don't work that way. With the exception of commuters and a few mass transit friendly cities, most American cities require you to have a car. So if say I want to go to the coast for a long weekend, I can't just pack a duffel, hop a train and get around fine without a car. I'd have to pay for a cab from the station to the hotel, I'm limited in my ability to get to restraunts, museums, etc. So either I pay cab fare out the ass, rent a car or drive my car there. Most of the time driving my car is the best bet.


So we should say that because we made terrible decisions in earlier decades, we can never change and fix it? So the cycle can just continue, what, the city isn't laid out well for transit instantly so we can't have transit so there's no point in building anything NEW transit-friendly so we can't have transit so we...

We have to start somewhere.

Realizing that most places consider trains a basic part of the landscape that COSTS money just like the roads do would be a good start. No one expects the Interstate to make a profit.
 
2009-02-19 10:41:42 PM  

firefly212: A good part of why trains end up late in the US, but they seem so reliable in other countries is that AMTRAK doesn't actually own much rail.


There's no question AMTRAK needs serious restructuring. Congressional interference, bad management, and union featherbedding have all marginalized intercity rail travel in this country almost to the point of insignificance. I rode AMTRAK from Baltimore to New York's Penn Station, that was OK. I rode AMTRAK from Raleigh to Miami, that was a nightmare. I rode Eurostar from London to Paris, that was fantastic.

High speed rail along the Eastern Seaboard could be cost-effective and desirable. There's too many obstacles right now, though.

Perhaps the map should be a Google Earth overlay.
 
2009-02-19 10:44:57 PM  
I would LOVE IT if we had a good passenger rail system in the USA.

It doesn't even have to be high speed, just be on time and have enough trains that it's a usable option.

Get it? WE DON'T NEED A NEW RAIL SYSTEM. Just more passenger trains and more routes on our existing system.

/we can go slow while you fix the really bad existing track.
 
2009-02-19 10:46:40 PM  
The airlines are going to fight this tooth and nail.
 
2009-02-19 10:47:48 PM  

omgwtfbbq69: the big dig (Boston's big hole in the ground) cost something like $14 Billion dollars and managed to ease traffic for a whopping 12 miles, so i think the $8 Billion dollar price tag might be a tad unrealistic to upgrade the rail system.


The Big Dig took as long as it did because Boston's traffic was/is really bad and they were trying to disrupt things as little as possible. This money is going toward work that will be done along existing right-of-ways which have carried rail traffic for (in some cases) nearly 200 years.
 
2009-02-19 10:53:35 PM  

studebaker hoch: The airlines are going to fight this tooth and nail.


The airlines, at least the larger ones, should welcome this, as it will let them reduce their number of flights without pissing off the cities (which control the airports) they serve.

Good regional, high-speed rail might actually allow the airlines to come up with a business model that doesn't involve them going bankrupt every five years.
 
2009-02-19 10:57:50 PM  
The original map was made in March of 2001! The date in the lower right corner is Photoshopped.
 
2009-02-19 10:59:54 PM  
From where I live and work and need to travel for work, this system is pretty much perfect.
 
2009-02-19 11:00:39 PM  
I've built Monorails in Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrook. And by golly, it put THEM on the map!
 
2009-02-19 11:01:07 PM  
The actual text from the bill, just for reference:


FEDERAL RAILROAD ADMINISTRATION
CAPITAL ASSISTANCE FOR HIGH SPEED RAIL CORRIDORS AND
INTERCITY PASSENGER RAIL SERVICE

For an additional amount for section 501 of Public Law 110-
432 and discretionary grants to States to pay for the cost of projects described in paragraphs (2)(A) and (2)(B) of section 24401 of title 49, United States Code, subsection (b) of section 24105 of such title, $8,000,000,000, to remain available through September 30, 2012: Provided, That the Secretary of Transportation shall give priority to projects that support the development of intercity high speed rail service: Provided further, That within 60 days of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary shall submit to the House and Senate Committees on Appropriations a strategic plan that describes how the Secretary will use the funding provided under this heading to improve and deploy high speed passenger rail systems: Provided further, That within 120 days of enactment of this Act, the Secretary shall issue interim guidance to applicants covering grant terms, conditions, and procedures until final regulations are issued: Provided further, That such interim guidance shall provide separate instructions for the high speed rail corridor program, capital assistance for intercity passenger rail service grants, and congestion grants: Provided further, That the Secretary shall waive the requirement that a project conducted using funds provided under this heading be in a State rail plan developed under chapter 227 of title 49, United States Code: Provided further, That the Federal share payable of the costs for which a grant is made under this heading shall be, at the option of the recipient, up to 100 percent: Provided further, That projects conducted using funds provided under this heading must comply with the requirements of subchapter IV of chapter 31 of title 40, United States Code: Provided further, that penisgargle flamnig urethra swoopdive: Provided further, That section 24405 of title 49, United States Code, shall apply to funds provided under this heading: Provided further, That the Administrator of the Federal Railroad Administration may retain up to one-quarter of 1 percent of the funds provided under this heading to fund the award and oversight by the Administrator of grants made under this heading, and funds retained for said purposes shall remain available through September 30, 2014.
(New window, link goes to PDF, this text is on page 94)
 
2009-02-19 11:12:56 PM  

studebaker hoch: I would LOVE IT if we had a good passenger rail system in the USA.

It doesn't even have to be high speed, just be on time and have enough trains that it's a usable option.

Get it? WE DON'T NEED A NEW RAIL SYSTEM. Just more passenger trains and more routes on our existing system.

/we can go slow while you fix the really bad existing track.


Our current passenger system can never be reliable and timely so long as we rely on tracks leased from companies with other interests.
 
2009-02-19 11:18:22 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: studebaker hoch: The airlines are going to fight this tooth and nail.

The airlines, at least the larger ones, should welcome this, as it will let them reduce their number of flights without pissing off the cities (which control the airports) they serve.

Good regional, high-speed rail might actually allow the airlines to come up with a business model that doesn't involve them going bankrupt every five years.


It's also far more efficient if we could find a way to send freight on high-speed rail instead of airplaine... planes take a whole lot more fuel. The other upside... the government wouldnt feel so compelled to bail out airlines every time if there were more viable alternatives (other airlines, high speed rail, etc).

Last thing though, the government should resume allowing Amtrak to carry US Mail, they did it cheaply for a long time, and actually made money doing it, but we thought it was unfair competition... so now we do it with private rail owners, and we're paying ever-increasing postage rates. Let them do what they do well.
 
2009-02-19 11:27:34 PM  

GoldSpider: PurplePimpSaber: Still, to connect all of those systems will require thousands of miles of easements. Will get quite costly.

That's the easy part; we just print more money!


Good thing we won't need any easements for the first part...
 
2009-02-19 11:31:05 PM  
and by ... i mean wtf
 
2009-02-19 11:33:26 PM  
Well thats great all this rail talk...not in my state so I hope our tax dollars dont go for something that I never ever use
 
2009-02-19 11:35:09 PM  

BuckTurgidson: The actual text from the bill, just for reference:


Excellent! I was hoping to see some (law-mandated) penis-gargling on the trains in the US.
 
2009-02-20 12:06:12 AM  
The equivalent of a Eurail pass is a USA Rail pass.
 
2009-02-20 12:09:21 AM  
1...2....3...4.....5.....6....7(that one was me).....,7....8..............21

excellent..
//adds thread to profile.
//runs.
 
2009-02-20 12:15:59 AM  

GaryPDX: Jedi_Templar: wmoonfox: Awesome... more and better shiat for the coasts at public expense, while most of the rest of the country lacks even basic transit services. We don't have money to extend services to "environmentally unfriendly" rural areas because we're too busy spending those dollars to make urban areas palatable.

No, it's because there aren't enough people living in states like Wyoming and North Dakota to make building a high speed rail cost effective.

Then they shouldn't have to pay. It won't benefit us either, there's already good Amtrak service and Portland has added 4 new major train lines in the metro area already in the last 5 years. The west side is now connected to Trimet.

Tell me something..what happened to the 286.4 Billion Highway Bill 4 years ago..what happened to that money?

Oh..and WE DON'T HAVE THE FARKING MONEY..:)


They don't pay shiat now anyway, they get back more in federal money then they pay in federal taxes.

Federal taxation disparity (new window)
 
2009-02-20 12:20:41 AM  

mattharvest: (a) Why is there that little gap disconnecting Florida from the rest of the east coast?
(b) Why is this from 2001?


Because disney doesn't pickup anyone that takes amtrak now.
 
2009-02-20 12:44:20 AM  

Shostie: Here's a better image of the map: Link (new window)

They should really work on interconnecting everything, rather than six separate systems.


Or I dunno, Austin and Houston as opposed to Austin and LITTLE ROCK ARKANSAS
 
2009-02-20 1:08:46 AM  
Patience, grasshoppers:
1) This is a preliminary plan
2) These are the initial HSR routes based on proximity of the cities, state of the current infrastructure along the rights-of-way, volume of traffic on the roads between these points, and potential for long-term viability.
3) Other routes will be built later, particularly routes to connect the main 'hubs' of the system, like Kansas City, Chicago, Cleveland, New York, Boston, Seattle, Los Angeles, and so on with higher speed trains in the future using newer technology.
4) This is not going to be Amtrak (possibly a different public-private enterprise), but it will dramatically alter the way Amtrak functions.
 
2009-02-20 1:18:04 AM  
Yeah right... Politicians have been talking about a San Antonio/Austin rail corridor for over a decade now. Ill believe it when i see it.
 
2009-02-20 1:27:04 AM  
Does the Boston-Montreal one stop in White River Junction? Because if so, I'm for it.

/two damn trains a day.
//same one, once in each direction.
 
2009-02-20 1:33:46 AM  
Choo-choo trains.

Christ.

/slaps forehead
 
2009-02-20 2:07:45 AM  

Man On Pink Corner: Choo-choo trains.


Nope. High-speed rail, which (at least on Northeast Corridor service) has been completely electrified since the early 1900's. The rest of the trains in this country are diesel/electrics.

No "choo-choo" anymore.
 
2009-02-20 2:24:08 AM  

trouzourt: Just another way that tax dollars are going to be wasted. Notice how every state that voted for Obama is getting the rail system, where is the central states are being left out once again in the dark.


Dude. Texas. Trust me, this state did not go for Obama.
 
2009-02-20 2:24:35 AM  
You know, funny how a commenter on HuffPo was saying that it would take years to decades to build and it doesn't belong in a short-term stimulus package...

Yeah, about that. This is a perfect thing to fund right now because it will create jobs lasting as long as it takes to build out the system. How is that bad?
 
2009-02-20 2:35:34 AM  

GoSurfing: what_now

"The New Deal was a series of spending packages, and it got us out of the depression. Spending money on public works 1) creates jobs and B) creates nifty things like trains and bridges and electricity in Tennessee."

I don't know what revisionist history you smoke, but WWII ended the depression.

Sorry libs, I know you hate having the truth ruin your pipedreams of spending our way to greatness.


You do realize that if that's the case WWII is a validation of Keynesian economics, right? That by that logic the 'failure' of the New Deal is that they didn't spend enough.
 
2009-02-20 2:40:04 AM  

bwogle: Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor


Germans?
 
2009-02-20 3:00:51 AM  

FlashHarry: GaryPDX: No, it's because there aren't enough people living in states like Wyoming and North Dakota to make building a high speed rail cost effective.

Then they shouldn't have to pay.

a slippery slope. this isn't a confederation.


But god, Gary wishes it was...anything to avoid having to look out for fellow Americans at the cost of a little inconvenience for himself.
 
2009-02-20 3:03:58 AM  
Guys, the "high speed rail" corridor only means upgrading the existing rail lines to 65mph. Basically, some rail realignment and closing of at-grade crossings is for the most part what is needed. In urban areas more work would be required but for the majority of miles they'll use existing track.
 
2009-02-20 3:07:15 AM  

astrotri: I'm not going to read this thread to find out if someone pointed out that the disconnects between the rail lines is the result of geography.

Florda = swampland
WV, Kentucky, Tenn = Rocky Top
etc

Did no one study geography in school?


What about Austin to Houston? Or a shot west through AZ and NM? Both of those lines have existing rail already, so I wouldn't think geography would be an issue.
 
2009-02-20 9:04:03 AM  

mattharvest: Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: mattharvest: Why is there that little gap disconnecting Florida from the rest of the east coast?It just seems bizarre.


I don't know either, but when I look on Google maps/satellite view, the terrain looks like a bunch of wetlands. Maybe it's very expensive to fortify that kind of surface for a high-speed rail line. The alternative is to go around, either way out west or straight down the beach.

bbc.co.ukView Full Size
 
2009-02-20 10:14:54 AM  

matrygg: trouzourt: Just another way that tax dollars are going to be wasted. Notice how every state that voted for Obama is getting the rail system, where is the central states are being left out once again in the dark.

Dude. Texas. Trust me, this state did not go for Obama.


make that 22 i guess :p
 
2009-02-20 11:23:29 AM  
firefly212:

You're just plain wrong, I'm out here in Colorado (where Obama won handily), we aren't getting any high speed rail here... Georgia, Alabama, and Mississippi are all getting part of this project. I mean, I'll give you a 2/10 for the partisan effort, but for being so contrary to reality, and your failure to use the term "libtard," I can't really give you more than that.

Not sure if you have heard, but there is a group that has several member communities and organizations in it that is working towards a high speed rail system for Colorado. Their website is Link (new window). Their study is due in a few months and will cover the costs involved as well as what routes to use. This FRA Map has nothing to do with the stimulus as it has been around so long. It only has to deal with what the FRA designates or is looking into designating a high speed corridor with travel speeds in excess of 90MPH. The corridors in Colorado, if/when the system is built will be part of this list.
 
2009-02-20 11:57:52 AM  

spazzm: I'm counting 6 (six!) disjoint railway systems.
Sometimes separated by just a few hundred kilometres.

Seriously, WTF? They've missed the entire point of having a train network.


To be fair, that map indicates only the high-speed rail lines - not all of the rail lines would be high-speed links. This happens in Europe all the time - whenever i visit non-major cities i take a high-speed train as far as i can, then connect on a regional train the rest of the way.
 
2009-02-20 12:19:21 PM  
ALL HIGH SPEED RAILS SHOULD LEAD TO LAS VEGAS!!!
 
2009-02-20 12:20:06 PM  
ALL HIGH SPEED RAILS SHOULD LEAD TO LAS VEGAS!!!
theiia.orgView Full Size
 
2009-02-20 6:42:17 PM  

Maul555: Yeah right... Politicians have been talking about a San Antonio/Austin rail corridor for over a decade now. Ill believe it when i see it.


Texas High Speed Rail was killed by the airlines. It almost happened in the early to mid nineties but the airline and oil business influence was too much for the community-based rail coalitions to overcome
 
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