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(The New York Times)   New Yorkers find out the hard way that biodiesel turns into biolard when it's cold. Where's global warming when you need it?   (greeninc.blogs.nytimes.com) divider line
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12252 clicks; posted to Main » and Fandom » on 23 Jan 2009 at 9:39 PM (14 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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bud jones
2009-01-23 6:04:35 PM  
headline: Biodiesel Congeals, School Buses Stall

article: "We found that whatever was plugging the filters was not biodiesel, but a substance found in petroleum,"

/shakes fist angrily at unjust world
 
BobtheFascist
2009-01-23 6:11:05 PM  
"Minnesota school children enjoy a rich tradition of schools closing because of 'snow days,'" remarked Sarah Janacek

HAHAHAHA! Not.
 
buzzvert
2009-01-23 6:21:01 PM  
My uncle worked in a shoe store as a diesel fitter. He sat next to the salesmen, and held up shoes to the customers' feet. If they were a good match, he would proclaim "diesel fitter!".
 
3horn
2009-01-23 6:21:12 PM  
Where's global warming when you need it?

Well, the high was 80 in Dallas today, and it's going to be 40 tomorrow, so obviously the thermostat is farked up.

3Horn
 
PainInTheASP [OhFark]
2009-01-23 6:27:04 PM  
Should have used

BobtheFascist: "Minnesota school children enjoy a rich tradition of schools closing because of 'snow days,'" remarked Sarah Janacek

HAHAHAHA! Not.


This.

Snow removal is super science in Wisconsin/Minnesota. When I was growing up, we didn't even start getting our hopes up until the forecasts were saying 12"-14".

/The only snow day I can really remember was after it had snowed sixteen inches.
//We were out a grand total of one day.
 
PainInTheASP [OhFark]
2009-01-23 6:30:24 PM  

PainInTheASP: Should have used....


Where the hell did that come from?

/Keyboard karma.
 
btc9183
2009-01-23 6:30:45 PM  
bud jones: article: "We found that whatever was plugging the filters was not biodiesel, but a substance found in petroleum,"

This quote was from a study paid for by a petroleum company so take it for what its worth. BTW, in low temps you have to dilute biodiesel with alcohol or some other similar additive to keep it from "congealing."

/farkin newbs
 
blazemongr
2009-01-23 6:33:00 PM  

3horn: Well, the high was 80 in Dallas today, and it's going to be 40 tomorrow, so obviously the thermostat is farked up.


Thermostat? You use your house's furnace to control the weather? You gotta show me how that works sometime.
 
markie_farkie [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2009-01-23 6:35:28 PM  

btc9183: This quote was from a study paid for by a petroleum company so take it for what its worth. BTW, in low temps you have to dilute biodiesel with alcohol or some other similar additive to keep it from "congealing."


Owned a Ford Tempo Diesel back in the late 80s.. It got down into the lower 30s and was threatening to dip into the teens here in Dallas, so I went to go get a bottle of fuel additive to prevent waxy buildup. $5 later I had this little flask of stuff to save me.

After I read the ingredients when I got home, it was 100% rubbing alcohol, which could be had for 39 cents for an equivalent-sized bottle.

I was a little wiser that day my friends...
 
buzzvert
2009-01-23 6:41:25 PM  

markie_farkie: After I read the ingredients when I got home, it was 100% rubbing alcohol, which could be had for 39 cents for an equivalent-sized bottle.

I was a little wiser that day my friends...


Well, not really. The 39 cent stuff is 70% isopropyl, 30% water. To get the 100% stuff it takes more refining and distilling, so $5 isn't out of line.
 
markie_farkie [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2009-01-23 6:51:07 PM  

buzzvert: Well, not really. The 39 cent stuff is 70% isopropyl, 30% water. To get the 100% stuff it takes more refining and distilling, so $5 isn't out of line


If memory serves me correctly the stuff I bought back in 87 or so was the 91% variety and it was in an 8 oz bottle. The actual diesel fuel additive one was 100% in a 4 oz bottle. Even today that's only $2 for a 16 oz bottle.

I figured that for the $4+ savings the little extra water in the prescribed 4 oz per tankfull wouldn't harm anything, and besides the water separator filter could certainly handle that small a portion in a full (12 gallon) tank.
 
GAT_00
2009-01-23 6:54:31 PM  
PainInTheASP: /The only snow day I can really remember was after it had snowed sixteen inches.
//We were out a grand total of one day.

I've gotten out on threat of snow. To be fair, it was Tennessee.
 
DonnyBaker
2009-01-23 7:05:46 PM  

buzzvert: My uncle worked in a shoe store as a diesel fitter. He sat next to the salesmen, and held up shoes to the customers' feet. If they were a good match, he would proclaim "diesel fitter!".


i498.photobucket.comView Full Size
 
jims4x4toy
2009-01-23 7:30:50 PM  
All diesel fuel gels, petroleum or biodiesel, in cold weather. This is why large trucks are idled in cold weather. There is a certain amount of unburned warm fuel returned to the tanks that will them from gelling up.

As a matter of fact, the last company I drove for actually wanted it's drivers to idle their truck through especially cold weekends to prevent gelling.
 
Taima
2009-01-23 8:02:35 PM  

buzzvert: My uncle worked in a shoe store as a diesel fitter. He sat next to the salesmen, and held up shoes to the customers' feet. If they were a good match, he would proclaim "diesel fitter!".


LOL
 
Procedural Texture
2009-01-23 8:12:01 PM  
Riiiight, subby.
There was never a cold winter before global warming climate change.
-1
 
Githerax
2009-01-23 9:43:03 PM  
That's why I use genuine Syntholard products.
 
Schwarzen Winter
2009-01-23 9:43:31 PM  
So what? Regular diesel turns to petrolard when it gets really cold.

This really isn't news.

/yes, I know
//it's fark!
 
NYZooMan
2009-01-23 9:44:25 PM  

Procedural Texture: Riiiight, subby.
There was never a cold winter before global warming climate change.
-1


I wish there was 'climate change' when I was in school so that no matter what happened my response was correct.
 
xuanzhiyouxuan
2009-01-23 9:46:55 PM  

PainInTheASP: Should have usedBobtheFascist: "Minnesota school children enjoy a rich tradition of schools closing because of 'snow days,'" remarked Sarah Janacek

HAHAHAHA! Not.

This.

Snow removal is super science in Wisconsin/Minnesota. When I was growing up, we didn't even start getting our hopes up until the forecasts were saying 12"-14".

/The only snow day I can really remember was after it had snowed sixteen inches.
//We were out a grand total of one day.


2 inches of snow shuts portland down and causes mass panic.
 
Crackers Are a Family Food
2009-01-23 9:48:29 PM  

GAT_00: PainInTheASP: /The only snow day I can really remember was after it had snowed sixteen inches.
//We were out a grand total of one day.

I've gotten out on threat of snow. To be fair, it was Tennessee.


Yeah, my high school did the same thing. If the words "threat of snow" were in the forecast, they'd close school for the following day. The next morning, the weather would come on and we'd be the only closing or delay on the bottom of the screen. Because not a damn flake fell overnight.

Staying in school until July sucked.
 
WhyteRaven74
2009-01-23 9:49:24 PM  
Schwarzen Winter: petrolard

I must use this word in a conversation this weekend, preferably where it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
 
Shadowknight
2009-01-23 9:49:52 PM  

PainInTheASP: Should have usedBobtheFascist: "Minnesota school children enjoy a rich tradition of schools closing because of 'snow days,'" remarked Sarah Janacek

HAHAHAHA! Not.

This.

Snow removal is super science in Wisconsin/Minnesota. When I was growing up, we didn't even start getting our hopes up until the forecasts were saying 12"-14".

/The only snow day I can really remember was after it had snowed sixteen inches.
//We were out a grand total of one day.


Grew up in Michigan. They either had the buses follow a snow plow or had parents take their kids to the nearest main road for pickup instead.

Still remember days watching the bus try to stop, and watching as it slid half a mile past your stop with you chasing behind it. Two feet of snow would fall, and you still could expect to slog your happy ass out to the road in giant moon-boots the next morning.
 
ceruleanPhotography
2009-01-23 9:51:58 PM  
Block heaters and fuel system heaters are pretty normal on diesel engines for this reason aren't they?
 
xuanzhiyouxuan
2009-01-23 9:52:05 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Schwarzen Winter: petrolard

I must use this word in a conversation this weekend, preferably where it has nothing to do with the topic at hand.


Did you use it to refer to a fat fark of an oil executive? Was it an oil man or tobacco man with the 17 chins that testified with the rest in front of congress?
 
The Martintuckian
2009-01-23 9:53:07 PM  
I love the smell of burning lard in the morning.
 
TheGreatZarquon
2009-01-23 9:53:13 PM  
PainInTheASP: Snow removal is super science in Wisconsin/Minnesota. When I was growing up, we didn't even start getting our hopes up until the forecasts were saying 12"-14".

Truth. Back when I lived up near International Falls, the kids there wouldn't stay home from school unless ALL the entrances to the school were blocked, or the snowplow wasn't running. Since the snowplow was kept in a heated garage and the school's front door had a 150 sq. ft. overhang, snow days required a full-on power outage.
 
Dilbert J. Galt
2009-01-23 9:53:16 PM  

Shadowknight: Still remember days watching the bus try to stop, and watching as it slid half a mile past your stop with you chasing behind it. Two feet of snow would fall, and you still could expect to slog your happy ass out to the road in giant moon-boots the next morning.


Also, getting out to push the bus. Imagine the screaming parents if they tried that today.
 
TheFoy [BareFark]
2009-01-23 9:53:53 PM  

3horn: Where's global warming when you need it?

Well, the high was 80 in Dallas today, and it's going to be 40 tomorrow, so obviously the thermostat is farked up.

3Horn


Is it bad that the first thing I remember when I see 3horn post (and it's been a while) is something vague about nakedness? I think there were pictures/photos involved (discussion of, not seen). I can't remember the details...

Maybe this is one of those times where I should keep my thoughts to myself...
 
SeamusFerrell
2009-01-23 9:54:17 PM  
My high school only had four snow days in over 100 years. No, it wasn't down south. It was in a Chicago suburb. They pride themselves on making kids walk through snow.
 
darkscout
2009-01-23 9:54:57 PM  
When we hit -20 last week my car jelled. farking fuel stations.

You can avoid it if you properly treat the fuel. Poured enough diesel purge in to treat 100 gallons. That should do it.
 
WhyteRaven74
2009-01-23 9:55:15 PM  
xuanzhiyouxuan: Was it an oil man or tobacco man with the 17 chins that testified with the rest in front of congress?

Was an oil man.

Shadowknight: giant moon-boots

I miss those.
 
leadmetal
2009-01-23 9:56:17 PM  

bud jones: headline: Biodiesel Congeals, School Buses Stall

article: "We found that whatever was plugging the filters was not biodiesel, but a substance found in petroleum,"


Which most likely translates into lack of proper maintenance of the school buses.

But the first rule when things go wrong in government or the corporate world is to find a scape goat.
 
theo_919
2009-01-23 9:57:26 PM  
New Yorkers learn everything the hard way, since they already know everything to begin with...
 
Wrightsfd
2009-01-23 9:57:30 PM  
Anyone who uses biodiesel in cold climates knows not to use 100% biodiesel in the winter, in fact they don't even sell it in most places this time of year. But since the article showed that it was not the biodiesel, but something else that clogged the fuel filter then this article is a waste of time and subby should GTFO.
 
12.fl.oz.
2009-01-23 9:57:39 PM  

btc9183: bud jones: article: "We found that whatever was plugging the filters was not biodiesel, but a substance found in petroleum,"

This quote was from a study paid for by a petroleum company so take it for what its worth. BTW, in low temps you have to dilute biodiesel with alcohol or some other similar additive to keep it from "congealing."

/farkin newbs


I have diluted myself with alcohol quite a few times.
 
Crow The Robot
2009-01-23 9:58:11 PM  

PainInTheASP: Snow removal is super science in Wisconsin/Minnesota. When I was growing up, we didn't even start getting our hopes up until the forecasts were saying 12"-14".


I thought it was bad with Central WI schools not bothering to close in low visibility blizzard conditions. Then I found out UW Madison almost never closes shop. It's usually the profs that say: "fark this" and cancel their class. Two years ago it was -30 with the windchill and they didn't cancel classes until a little past noon. What usually does it is freezing rain with a layer of snow as it's a pita to get off (takes a lot of salt) and quite dangerous to drive on. Vegas is the other extreme, it rains for 5 minutes and there are accidents everywhere.
 
JerseyTim [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2009-01-23 9:58:44 PM  
Minnesotans are New Yorkers now?
 
athoughtcomes
2009-01-23 9:59:21 PM  
xuanzhiyouxuan
2 inches of snow shuts portland down and causes mass panic.

I think you're being generous. Beaverton's even worse.

although this means I don't ever have to drive my school bus in the snow.
 
CrossEyed
2009-01-23 10:00:00 PM  
Something must have congealed in subby. The only locations mentioned in the article are Colorado and Minnesota. New Yorkers apparently are finding out the easy way - reading about problems elsewhere.
 
Ball of Confusion
2009-01-23 10:00:34 PM  
Anyone who did their homework on biodeez knows that on a vehicle that has run dinosaur squeezins, it will loosen up all the dino crud in the fuel system and clog if you're lucky, the filter. This is not news

/Its FARK!
//class 8 for the win.
///my tractors sleep indoors at night.
////nobody can steal the extension cords that way.
 
BiblioTech [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2009-01-23 10:02:39 PM  

3horn: Where's global warming when you need it?

Well, the high was 80 in Dallas today, and it's going to be 40 tomorrow, so obviously the thermostat is farked up.

3Horn


70+ degrees in Denver yesterday - snowing today. We just got it a day sooner than you!
 
Trajan's Call'Em
2009-01-23 10:03:00 PM  
I live in CO. A foot or more will not close schools. We need a serious snow to close schools or businesses. We had seven feet a few years ago that shut down stuff for easily a few days.

/Was still able to get to the airport in my Jeep.
//Need to hear from notanyer
///Love them slashies!
 
offacue [TotalFark]
2009-01-23 10:10:00 PM  

buzzvert: My uncle worked in a shoe store as a diesel fitter. He sat next to the salesmen, and held up shoes to the customers' feet. If they were a good match, he would proclaim "diesel fitter!".


Hmmmm, that's funny. My mother was a seamstress and my father was a diesel fitter. They had the same punchline.
 
Flyerguy
2009-01-23 10:11:03 PM  

CrossEyed: Something must have congealed in subby. The only locations mentioned in the article are Colorado and Minnesota. New Yorkers apparently are finding out the easy way - reading about problems elsewhere.

Agreed

This is some sort of bizzaro article where nothing is as it seems. Or factually based.

I can dig this kind of news, though.

"Organic trees vaporize after South Mississippi sheep harvest"
 
SlothB77
2009-01-23 10:12:30 PM  
wait until everyone is required to use biolard.
 
TheChemist
2009-01-23 10:15:25 PM  

btc9183: bud jones: article: "We found that whatever was plugging the filters was not biodiesel, but a substance found in petroleum,"

This quote was from a study paid for by a petroleum company so take it for what its worth. BTW, in low temps you have to dilute biodiesel with alcohol or some other similar additive to keep it from "congealing."

/farkin newbs


Goooo Azeotropes!

\What can I say? Chemgeek.
\\The same fuel additive would probably work with biodiesel if it were a problem. It's usually absolute ethanol (not related to Absolut Vodka, you wouldn't want to drink this) The phenomenon at work is that exact same one that keeps a drink with a high alcohol content from freezing in your freezer. The higher the alcohol content by proportion, the closer the freezing point of the mixture gets to the alcohol.
 
jshine
2009-01-23 10:21:52 PM  

BobtheFascist: "Minnesota school children enjoy a rich tradition of schools closing because of 'snow days,'" remarked Sarah Janacek

HAHAHAHA! Not.


I went to public school in Rochester, Minnesota and certainly recall my share of snow days. It seemed like there were a few every year, but I don't have exact numbers.
 
aresef
2009-01-23 10:22:18 PM  
For some reason I read "hard way" as "Hard Gay." I don't know why.

/Sei! Sei! Sei! Sei!
//HOOOOO!
 
defects
2009-01-23 10:25:23 PM  

buzzvert: markie_farkie: After I read the ingredients when I got home, it was 100% rubbing alcohol, which could be had for 39 cents for an equivalent-sized bottle.

I was a little wiser that day my friends...

Well, not really. The 39 cent stuff is 70% isopropyl, 30% water. To get the 100% stuff it takes more refining and distilling, so $5 isn't out of line.


Not really.. 100% is about impossible to have because of the nature of IPA. Just like ethanol 100% takes a lot of refining to get the water out of it. 99% IPA is pretty dang cheap though.
 
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