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(Some Guy)   Obama: "We all have to make sacrifices. But I'm going to make the richest 1% pay, not you. But we all have to make sacrifices. So here's some free money. But remember: We all have to make sacrifices"   (debates.org) divider line
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18795 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Oct 2008 at 8:12 PM (14 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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jerry2a
2008-10-08 6:32:00 PM  
Wait - so Obama is saying that the other 99% won't have to pay taxes at all? COOL! OBAMA! OBAMA! OBAMA!
 
Lando Lincoln
2008-10-08 6:38:32 PM  
That IS scary. I am afraid. Please. Someone hold me.
 
Dupa
2008-10-08 6:39:03 PM  
Buffett, Gates, Soros, Oprah, we're coming for your money.

/right
 
Chearl
2008-10-08 6:41:22 PM  
Obama / fundamental: 9 times

McCain / my friends: 22 times
 
KaponoFor3
2008-10-08 6:42:33 PM  
They should just stop wrapping it up nicely and say what they really are planning on doing: stealing from the rich to redistribute that wealth to the poor. We're not stupid. Just be honest.
 
Two Dogs Farking [TotalFark]
2008-10-08 6:42:36 PM  
Wow, this looks like bad news... for Obama.
 
pwhp_67
2008-10-08 6:43:32 PM  
If you don't think the middle class has been making sacrifices during the last 8 years you should be working on FOX or confined to an asylum...
 
jimmyhaha
2008-10-08 6:45:48 PM  
Who do you think is fighting in Iraq?
 
Lando Lincoln
2008-10-08 6:46:09 PM  

KaponoFor3: They should just stop wrapping it up nicely and say what they really are planning on doing: stealing from the rich to redistribute that wealth to the poor. We're not stupid. Just be honest.


Whatever makes you feel better. Or more bitter. Boo farking hoo.
 
pwhp_67
2008-10-08 6:46:23 PM  

jimmyhaha: Who do you think is fighting in Iraq?



Are you saying it's not the children of rich white people?
 
jaylectricity [TotalFark]
2008-10-08 6:46:59 PM  
I make less than $200,000 so I'm hoping to kick back and smoke a spliffy.
 
50mm
2008-10-08 6:48:50 PM  

KaponoFor3: They should just stop wrapping it up nicely and say what they really are planning on doing: stealing from the rich to redistribute that wealth to the poor. We're not stupid. Just be honest.


.
^ World's smallest violin.
 
pwhp_67
2008-10-08 6:49:38 PM  

KaponoFor3: Just be honest.



Why don't you start?

It's not farking stealing when they're putting the tax rate back to where it was before Bush lowered it. Also, after Bush lowered it they started carving up companies and saw their wealth grow at an unprecedented rate while the middle class saw their wages and benefits steadily fall.

Stealing? Only a complete imbecile with absolutely no knowledge of taxation or the last 20 years of our economy could say that with a straight face...
 
KaponoFor3
2008-10-08 6:51:08 PM  

Lando Lincoln: Whatever makes you feel better. Or more bitter. Boo farking hoo.


Obama's tax plan increases taxes on 5% of Americans to help offset the tax cuts for the other 95% whereas McCain's tax plan decreases EVERYONE'S taxes regardless of income bracket. What do you call Obama's plan if NOT wealth redistribution?

50mm: ^ World's smallest violin.


Yeah, fark the rich. Class warfare FTW!

jaylectricity: I make less than $200,000 so I'm hoping to kick back and smoke a spliffy.


Bluntage will work better
 
KaponoFor3
2008-10-08 6:52:10 PM  

pwhp_67: Stealing? Only a complete imbecile with absolutely no knowledge of taxation or the last 20 years of our economy could say that with a straight face...


Indirect ad hominems ALWAYS are effective.
 
pwhp_67
2008-10-08 6:54:12 PM  

KaponoFor3: Indirect ad hominems ALWAYS are effective.



Sorry if it was too much truth for you but really; you'd honestly have to be dim or a troll...
 
KaponoFor3
2008-10-08 6:55:01 PM  

pwhp_67: Sorry if it was too much truth for you but really; you'd honestly have to be dim or a troll...


Seeing as I'm neither, I'm just going to ignore you as you aren't really here to discuss anything, but instead just call people names. Have fun with that.
 
cheshirecatsmileyface
2008-10-08 6:55:07 PM  

KaponoFor3: Lando Lincoln: Whatever makes you feel better. Or more bitter. Boo farking hoo.

Obama's tax plan increases taxes on 5% of Americans to help offset the tax cuts for the other 95% whereas McCain's tax plan decreases EVERYONE'S taxes regardless of income bracket. What do you call Obama's plan if NOT wealth redistribution?


I've done that calculators that show you your taxes under each candidate's plans...and mine don't go down under McCain. At all. They go down under Obama's by about $500. And I make under 40k a year.
 
Solid State Vittles
2008-10-08 6:56:10 PM  

KaponoFor3: pwhp_67: Stealing? Only a complete imbecile with absolutely no knowledge of taxation or the last 20 years of our economy could say that with a straight face...

Indirect ad hominems ALWAYS are effective.


Why not answer the first part of what he wrote? Kind of telling that you chose to ignore it. Here it is again:

It's not farking stealing when they're putting the tax rate back to where it was before Bush lowered it. Also, after Bush lowered it they started carving up companies and saw their wealth grow at an unprecedented rate while the middle class saw their wages and benefits steadily fall.

No name calling, respond to it.
 
50mm
2008-10-08 6:56:48 PM  

KaponoFor3:
Obama's tax plan increases taxes on 5% of Americans to help offset the tax cuts for the other 95% whereas McCain's tax plan decreases EVERYONE'S taxes regardless of income bracket. What do you call Obama's plan if NOT wealth redistribution?


Temporary refund adjustment.

Colossal salary grab.

Back to what it used to be.


You can spin it many ways.
 
KaponoFor3
2008-10-08 6:56:56 PM  

cheshirecatsmileyface: I've done that calculators that show you your taxes under each candidate's plans...and mine don't go down under McCain. At all. They go down under Obama's by about $500. And I make under 40k a year.


I'll preface what I said about by saying I'm relying on the tax graphic that has been floating around the internet for the last few months... you know, the one with Obama and McCain side by side. I'm sure someone will post it in this thread.

Do yours go up under McCain's plan?
 
pwhp_67
2008-10-08 6:57:12 PM  

KaponoFor3: Obama's tax plan increases taxes on 5% of Americans to help offset the tax cuts for the other 95%



Reagan's tax plan raised taxes on 95% of the taxpayers (And raised payroll taxes) while lowering taxes for the top 5% which was really farking stupid and he was told at the time that it was really farking stupid but it helped his rich white friends get even richer so he was happy to do it. Bush I rolled back some of those tax cuts to help pay for the Gulf War.

Now Obama is going to permanently remove the cuts so that the same people who profited from things like the war and moving jobs overseas can kick a little more into the kitty.

And you're crying over it?
 
truth_is_stranger_than_fishin
2008-10-08 6:57:53 PM  

KaponoFor3: McCain's tax plan decreases EVERYONE'S taxes


But the decreases are the most for the richest. Because they need a break from making all the f*cking money in the world. As our debt stands at 10 trillion.
 
cheshirecatsmileyface
2008-10-08 6:58:12 PM  

KaponoFor3: cheshirecatsmileyface: I've done that calculators that show you your taxes under each candidate's plans...and mine don't go down under McCain. At all. They go down under Obama's by about $500. And I make under 40k a year.

I'll preface what I said about by saying I'm relying on the tax graphic that has been floating around the internet for the last few months... you know, the one with Obama and McCain side by side. I'm sure someone will post it in this thread.

Do yours go up under McCain's plan?



Nope, they stay the same. Just pointing out that McCain's plan does NOT lower taxes for everybody.
 
KaponoFor3
2008-10-08 7:00:13 PM  

Solid State Vittles: No name calling, respond to it.


OK. Here's what he said:

It's not farking stealing when they're putting the tax rate back to where it was before Bush lowered it. Also, after Bush lowered it they started carving up companies and saw their wealth grow at an unprecedented rate while the middle class saw their wages and benefits steadily fall.

Bush gave tax cuts to everyone, regardless of income bracket, no? So putting back the tax rate to where it was before Bush lowered it, and correspondingly using those very funds to give even more tax decreases/rebates to people who earn under X dollars, is not taking from the rich to give to the poor? It absolutely is, even if you view it as just resetting things to where they were before Bush's tax cuts. Besides, if we let Bush's tax cuts expire, then everyone (regardless of income) goes back to where they were before those. Under Obama's plan, he would instead put 5% of the population back to where they were before Bush, but use that money to pay for the other 95% to continue to pay less in taxes.

That's bullshiat and typical class warfare.

The second part about buying up companies is irrelevant to the issue and only thrown out there to play to readers' emotions and anger.
 
Solid State Vittles
2008-10-08 7:00:18 PM  

pwhp_67: And you're crying over it?


See, Kapono, this is what I don't understand either. You're not among the super wealthy, so I'm unsure why you're constantly licking their boots. This is a chance for YOU to get YOUR piece back, and yet you come rushing to the poor, neglected, misunderstood, and misrepresented class of multi-millionaires at every opportunity. What gives?
 
truth_is_stranger_than_fishin
2008-10-08 7:00:57 PM  
[image from majhost.com too old to be available]
 
KaponoFor3
2008-10-08 7:01:24 PM  

cheshirecatsmileyface: Nope, they stay the same. Just pointing out that McCain's plan does NOT lower taxes for everybody.


Fair enough -- I've never seen this calculator you speak of. Like I said above, I'm only going off that graphic that everyone is familiar with. It's possible the candidates have tweaked their plans since then.
 
KaponoFor3
2008-10-08 7:03:46 PM  

Solid State Vittles: You're not among the super wealthy, so I'm unsure why you're constantly licking their boots. This is a chance for YOU to get YOUR piece back, and yet you come rushing to the poor, neglected, misunderstood, and misrepresented class of multi-millionaires at every opportunity. What gives?


Because I don't sit there and go "It's unfair that this guy right here has more than me. I want what he has. Please government, take from him and give it to me." That is fundamentally unfair to me. If someone has lots of money, good for them. They (or someone in their family) probably worked their asses off to get it.

However they got the money, I am against the government taking it from them to give to me, regardless of what my economic status is. I don't want the government's help and don't need it when it comes to this subject.

And you are right, I'm not among the "super wealthy". Probably never will be (unless I get a monster plaintiff's case or three).
 
KaponoFor3
2008-10-08 7:04:44 PM  
That graphic above is the one I'm talking about -- in it, McCain's plan gives money back to EVERY American, regardless of tax bracket. Do the upper income people get more back? Yes, they do. But they also pay more. But at least under McCain's plan, everyone gets something back regardless of income. That's fair.
 
Solid State Vittles
2008-10-08 7:07:23 PM  

KaponoFor3: That's bullshiat and typical class warfare.


If you're not a flat taxer or in favor of abolishing income tax altogether, then "class warfare" as a term rings as hollow as "death tax" does for the estate tax. There's always been a progressive income tax. You just don't like the level Obama is planning to reinstate.

KaponoFor3: The second part about buying up companies is irrelevant to the issue and only thrown out there to play to readers' emotions and anger.

I don't think it is. It's completely relevant in that this trickle-down economic theory has failed.
 
cameroncrazy1984 [TotalFark]
2008-10-08 7:09:37 PM  

KaponoFor3: That graphic above is the one I'm talking about -- in it, McCain's plan gives money back to EVERY American, regardless of tax bracket. Do the upper income people get more back? Yes, they do. But they also pay more. But at least under McCain's plan, everyone gets something back regardless of income. That's fair.


Who's gotten more back during the last 8 years? That's right, the wealthy. It's time they paid their fair share. That's all it is.
 
KaponoFor3
2008-10-08 7:11:08 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: It's time they paid their fair share.


The more I hear this, the more I realize its just code for "they already have enough money, they don't need anymore, so fark 'em, let's take what they have"
 
cheshirecatsmileyface
2008-10-08 7:11:19 PM  

KaponoFor3: cheshirecatsmileyface: Nope, they stay the same. Just pointing out that McCain's plan does NOT lower taxes for everybody.

Fair enough -- I've never seen this calculator you speak of. Like I said above, I'm only going off that graphic that everyone is familiar with. It's possible the candidates have tweaked their plans since then.



Its very nice: Link (new window)

I find it more reliable than a graphic, since it takes into account different deductions and whatnot. I'm not saying McCain won't lower taxes for other people--it just doesn't appear to do it for me.
 
Solid State Vittles
2008-10-08 7:11:55 PM  

KaponoFor3: However they got the money, I am against the government taking it from them to give to me, regardless of what my economic status is. I don't want the government's help and don't need it when it comes to this subject.


I would be far less disagreeable about all of this if Obama was planning on doing something other than reinstating those pre-Bush taxes already mentioned.
 
inebriated brain
2008-10-08 7:13:56 PM  
I don't care what anyone says, a tax plan based on punishment (sacrifice)is unethical. Taxes are a mean to fund government and that's it.

If fairness means punishing someone else for being sucsessful, then I hope we stay an unfair nation.

god this makes me sick!!!! And I am dirt farking poor.
 
Solid State Vittles
2008-10-08 7:14:56 PM  

KaponoFor3: The more I hear this, the more I realize its just code for "they already have enough money, they don't need anymore, so fark 'em, let's take what they have"


That's not what I'm saying at all. I don't think there was suffering in the upper class before Bush was president, so those tax cuts to me seemed unnecessary. They were done under the guise of economic stimulation when it was simply currying political favor and money from the country's wealthiest.
 
KaponoFor3
2008-10-08 7:15:49 PM  
I have to go get ready to coach Mock Trial at a local high school here that I am volunteering with. I'll be back to check this thread later tonight. Good discussions.
 
50mm
2008-10-08 7:15:56 PM  

inebriated brain:
If fairness means punishing someone else for being sucsessful, then I hope we stay an unfair nation.


Like, say, using company profits to move operations overseas and laying off domestic workers?
 
Skeuomorph
2008-10-08 7:16:03 PM  

KaponoFor3: They should just stop wrapping it up nicely and say what they really are planning on doing: stealing from the rich to redistribute that wealth to the poor. We're not stupid. Just be honest.


You may have been swimming in McCain's cesspool of lies so long you may not realize that from time to time, some candidates are being honest about their policies:

"We want to take money and put it back in the pocket of middle-class people," Biden said in an interview on ABC's "Good Morning America.
-- http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080918/ap_on_el_pr/biden_taxes_3

// fark filter is rejecting this link
 
Asa Phelps
2008-10-08 7:16:14 PM  
My tax rate increased under W's plan, actually. And that $300 loan he gave me was returned in full next april.
 
inebriated brain
2008-10-08 7:17:11 PM  

50mm: Like, say, using company profits to move operations overseas and laying off domestic workers?


corporations move overseas because they are taxed TOO FARKING MUCH HERE!!!
 
Solid State Vittles
2008-10-08 7:17:40 PM  

cheshirecatsmileyface: I find it more reliable than a graphic, since it takes into account different deductions and whatnot. I'm not saying McCain won't lower taxes for other people--it just doesn't appear to do it for me.


Me neither.

Nifty calculator. Never seen that one.
 
Mordant
2008-10-08 7:19:12 PM  
I make a good bit more money than I need, and little makes me happier than some dumbass f*ck defending me when I wouldn't stop to piss on him if he was on fire. People who make more than me probably feel differently though, and really appreciate it when Joe Average is willing to shoulder more of the burden himself in order to be "fair".

God bless Amurka, land of people who dream so big they can ignore their own reality.
 
some_wild-eyed_8-foot_tall_maniac
2008-10-08 7:20:07 PM  

KaponoFor3: They should just stop wrapping it up nicely and say what they really are planning on doing: stealing from the rich to redistribute that wealth to the poor. We're not stupid. Just be honest.


Pathetic.

So it's class warfare to roll back the extra tax breaks for the super wealthy, but it wasn't class warfare to give them bigger breaks than the rest of us in the first place?

You're full of Wharrgarbl.

How about we go back to the 1953 tax rate, you greedy, lying, whiner?
 
50mm
2008-10-08 7:20:43 PM  

inebriated brain: 50mm: Like, say, using company profits to move operations overseas and laying off domestic workers?

corporations move overseas because they are taxed TOO FARKING MUCH HERE!!!


Sometimes. More often they move overseas because labor and services are much cheaper. My point is, from the company workers' point of view their "reward" for making the company successful enough to move operations to a multinational level is the unemployment office.
 
verbal_jizm
2008-10-08 7:21:23 PM  
inebriated brain: TOO FARKING MUCH HERE

Wow. Someone's been drinking the cool aid. Yes our corporate taxes are high here, but the reasons that businesses hire over seas is because they can pay lower wages and not offer health benefits.
 
inebriated brain
2008-10-08 7:26:26 PM  

50mm: More often they move overseas because labor and services are much cheaper


yes that is certainly a valid point, but wouldn't it make more sense to make it more economical to stay rather than tax them more?
 
bulldg4life
2008-10-08 7:27:24 PM  
Can someone explain the best way to compare total percentages of wealth as it relates to the total tax burden?

I don't honestly know and I'm wondering if the IRS compares it and puts it in easy to read graph form.

For example, if the top 1% controls 75% of the total income...would they be paying 75% of the total tax burden?

I don't know how to compare it and, to be perfectly honest, I really don't listen to tax money talk all that much.
 
BobtheFascist
2008-10-08 7:29:01 PM  
Nobody wants to see taxes lowered like I do. But I can't, in good conscience, take a cut while someone else is forced to pick up my tab just because they make more than me. It's greedy & it's theft. Besides, Obama's cut is going to save me a whoppin' $50/mo. Thanks for the extra tank of gas, man.
 
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