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(ABC News)   McCain challenges Obama to admit he was wrong about the Surge. Obama triple-dog dares McCain to stick his tongue on a cold flagpole   (abcnews.go.com) divider line
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4949 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 21 Jul 2008 at 2:19 PM (14 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2008-07-21 11:04:03 AM  
As a sign of the changing times, ABC News even found an exhibit in a Baghdad art gallery that included paintings of nudes.

The gallery owner said such a display was impossible a year ago, when the city was besieged by Islamic militants.

"But now because of security I can exhibit," the gallery owner told ABC News.



they got tits, time for us to gtfo
 
2008-07-21 11:09:14 AM  
didn't the surge take place mostly during a voluntary cease-fire by Al-Sadr?
 
2008-07-21 11:23:22 AM  
burndtdan: they got tits, time for us to gtfo

THIS
 
2008-07-21 11:36:50 AM  
the surge caused our casualties to jump to the triple digits every month in the summer of 07. paying insurgents to stop fighting caused them to drop into the 20s and 30s. enforcing ethnic segregation in baghdad with 10 foot tall concrete barriers has largely dampened the civil war. none of the things that worked need us to stay there.
 
2008-07-21 12:42:18 PM  
burndtdan: they got tits, time for us to gtfo

Sounds good to me.
 
2008-07-21 12:49:37 PM  
Unbelievable.

The American Enterprise Institute's hype around the SurgeTM is working far better than the US troop escalation ever could.

Obama last went to Iraq in January 2006. The month before his visit there were at least 537 civilian and Iraqi army casualties (passively gathered numbers; true body count unknown).

In June 2008, there were at least 554 killed. Objectively speaking, the death toll is worse now then it was when Obama first came up with the idea that US troops needed to be pulled out of Iraq.

As flavor of the month said, bribing insurgents not to shoot at each other & religio-ethnic apartheid has done more to quell things than the US troop escalation that McCain is grandstanding about.

[image from i27.photobucket.com too old to be available]

Meanwhile, here's what's happened in the last 36 hours:

-An adhesive IED stuck to a civilian car detonated in Kem neighbourhood, Adhamiyah, northern Baghdad early Sunday killing the driver.

-A roadside bomb exploded in Karrada, near al-Rahibat Hospital at 7.30 a.m. killing one civilian, injuring three.

-A roadside bomb targeted a U.S. military convoy on Qanat Street in the direction of Qahira, northeast Baghdad at around 10.30 a.m. Sunday. No casualties were reported.

-A roadside bomb targeted a police patrol in Qahira, near al-Nidaa Mosque at noon injuring five people including two policemen.

-A parked car bomb detonated in Damascus intersection, central Baghdad at 6 p.m. killing one civilian, injuring seven people including one policemen and one baby girl.

-Three unidentified bodies were found in Baghdad today by Iraqi Police; one in Amil, one in Baladiyat and one in Hurriyah.

-Gunmen threw a hand grenade at a car selling alcoholic beverages, parked on the Jadriyah Bridge at 9 p.m. injuring four civilians.

-A roadside bomb exploded in al-Jaara in Madain, to the south east of Baghdad injuring three civilians including a little girl.

-A roadside bomb targeted a pick up truck in Wajihiyah district, 20 km to the east of Baquba at 6.45 p.m. killing two policemen in plain clothes.

-A suicide car bomb targeted a site where trucks carrying construction materials for the U.S military stop at 4 p.m. killing two foreign private security contractors.

-Gunmen in a speeding car open fire upon a group of civilians in al-Hadbaa neighbourhood, Mosul city at 6 p.m. killing three.

-Gunmen in a speeding car open fire upon a civilian in Aden neighbourhood at 7.30 p.m. killing him on his doorstep.

-One policeman killed by sniper fire in al-Masarif neighbourhood, Mosul city at around 7.30 p.m.

-Iraqi Army servicemen captured a suicide bomber targeting a checkpoint in central Ramadi. The suicide vest was defused and the suicide bomber detained.

-An American Special Force raided the residence of Khalaf Issa Turk in al-Asri neighbourhood, Baiji at dawn, Sunday and opened fire upon Husam Hamed Hmoud al-Qaissi, son of the Governor of Salahuddin Province while he was asleep in the guest room and also opened fire upon Auday Khalaf Issa al-Qaissi, his cousin killing them both, and detained two others without giving any explanation, said a security source in Salahuddin Province. The American military said its forces shot two armed men during a raid because they felt they had "hostile intent". The statement added that the forces also injured and captured an al-Qaida financer during the operation.

-A roadside bomb targeted a police patrol in Tayaran Square, central Kirkuk Sunday morning, injuring one policeman.

-Basra Police found the body of a 24 year old female in Jazair neighbourhood, central Basra Sunday. She was shot four times.

-Gunmen detonated the house of the mother of Mithal al Alosi, a lawmaker in the Iraqi parliament in al Jamia'a neighborhood in west Baghdad on Monday morning. The house was empty when the explosion happened.

-Five civilians were injured in an explosion of a bomb that was attached to a private car in al Tobchi neighborhood in west Baghdad around 12:00 p.m.

-Gunmen attacked al-Bowashi village south of Baquba city targeting Sahwa councils members (awakening councils) killing one member of Sahwa and kidnapping four.

-Gumen killed the sheikh Abdul Ghaffar Abdullah; the sheikh of one of the branches of Obeidi tribe while he was in his way for a reconciliation meeting in Abo Saida area north of Baquba.

-A bomb exploded inside the garden of the house of the father of Falluja police deputy chief Lieutenant Colonel Esa Sayer in al Shurta district in downtown Falluja city west of Baghdad around 6:00 a.m. Five people were injured including a 5 years kid who was seriously injured.

-A bomb exploded inside the garden of the house of CPT Asif Ghazi, an officer in Falluja police. The explosion took place in al Mualimeen district in downtown Falluja around 6:00 a.m. the explosion caused damages to the house. No casualties reported. Two other bombs were found near the house and there were detonated under control.
 
2008-07-21 12:53:44 PM  
Tabatha Static: In June 2008, there were at least 554 killed. Objectively speaking, the death toll is worse now then it was when Obama first came up with the idea that US troops needed to be pulled out of Iraq.

but if you account for the increased troop levels, the death to troop ratio has gone down significantly!
 
2008-07-21 12:54:28 PM  
Tabatha Static: Meanwhile, here's what's happened in the last 36 hours:

also, i didn't hear about any of those things on the news, so they must not have happened.
 
2008-07-21 1:23:51 PM  
The thing is, since there's no control to measure against, we'll never know if the surge had any impact on things or not.

There are too many variable to prove the surge was the key factor in anything. For all we know, things might have died down even more quickly without it.
 
2008-07-21 1:39:58 PM  
We haven't been attacked since 9-11 either, so obviously torture, wiretapping and extraordinary rendition are excellent ideas that work magnificently!! More, more, more!!

/republican logic
 
2008-07-21 2:22:12 PM  
amishrakefight.orgView Full Size
 
2008-07-21 2:22:52 PM  
Turn a corner, don't turn a corner.
Liberate Iraq, don't liberate Iraq.
Make Iraq better, make it worse.
I really don't care.
I just want to stop paying for it.
 
2008-07-21 2:23:44 PM  
So, the same man who was just attacking Obama for having opinions on Iraq, despite never having visited the country, is now demanding that he make comparative observations based on that lack of knowledge? Is he even reading his own speeches?
 
2008-07-21 2:23:49 PM  
With a situation as complicated as holding foreign land for imperialistic reasons you can probably make a case for things going better or worse based on any number of factors you want to hold up. But their increased oil output is the bottom line for Americans IMO...
 
2008-07-21 2:23:50 PM  
I don't think getting into a pissing contest with McCain is a good idea because he's likely to piss himself at any moment and it can last up to 40 minutes.
 
2008-07-21 2:24:05 PM  
burndtdan: they got tits, time for us to gtfo

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

/now what'd I do with that banner?
 
2008-07-21 2:24:45 PM  
Man, if no one has recipes yet for tasty Iraqi food yet, it's time to go. Empire building should only be motivated by really bad food at home. That, and oil. And teaching cricket.
 
2008-07-21 2:25:43 PM  
burndtdan: but if you account for the increased troop levels, the death to troop ratio has gone down significantly!

Wow.. It sounds like a troll, but there is logic to it. You are magnificent!
 
2008-07-21 2:26:38 PM  
So, there's political reconciliation in Iraq?
 
2008-07-21 2:27:34 PM  
Did he ask Bush and Rumsfeld to admit that Shinseki was right?
 
2008-07-21 2:27:48 PM  
burndtdan: Tabatha Static: In June 2008, there were at least 554 killed. Objectively speaking, the death toll is worse now then it was when Obama first came up with the idea that US troops needed to be pulled out of Iraq.

but if you account for the increased troop levels, the death to troop ratio has gone down significantly!


That wasn't the point of the surge, though.
 
2008-07-21 2:30:13 PM  
IcedPee: burndtdan: but if you account for the increased troop levels, the death to troop ratio has gone down significantly!

Wow.. It sounds like a troll, but there is logic to it. You are magnificent!


Its not Trolling, its Sarcasm.

/Fark.com
 
2008-07-21 2:30:59 PM  
Ladies and gentleman.. Please pay attention the most important thing.. the thing behind the curtain the Republicans don't want you to remember..

How relevant is "the surge", when we should have never been in Iraq in the first place? And are we willing to elect a someone who lead us there over someone who was against it?

Obama needs to run national TV ads:
If your "good decision" would have never of occurred without your initial horrible decision, then you do not get to brag about your "good decision".
 
2008-07-21 2:31:29 PM  
IcedPee: burndtdan: but if you account for the increased troop levels, the death to troop ratio has gone down significantly!

Wow.. It sounds like a troll, but there is logic to it. You are magnificent!


Except of course there was no change in troop levels during the "surge". Troops levels had been falling and were shored up a bit.

The point to the Surge is to dodge the "six weeks" claim Rumsfeld made. It's just a word.
 
2008-07-21 2:32:48 PM  
Good. Obama has been lying about his surge position.

In January 2007, he said more troops will cause more violence. "I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq is going to solve the sectarian violence there. In fact, I think it will do the reverse."

In January 2008, he said that he's always had the position that more troops would reduce violence. "I had no doubt, and I said at the time when I opposed the surge, that given how wonderfully our troops perform, if we place 30,000 more troops in there, then we would see an improvement in the security situation and we would see a reduction in the violence."
 
2008-07-21 2:32:51 PM  
thewebfairy.comView Full Size

"Yes we have confirmation Dan. Obama has skipped over the Double Dog & went straight for the triple. I'll let you know how this pans out."
 
2008-07-21 2:34:10 PM  
I read somewhere that they had a small hole with a vacuum attached so they could make his tongue stick to the pole realistically.
 
2008-07-21 2:34:49 PM  
McCain's doing this whole shiat wrong. He should be concentrating on oil prices and how he's going to lower it. What with the congress talking about increasing the tax by 10c he's got a ready-made talking point already that he knows more people would side with him.

The US is so divided on Iraq and the whole war right now that its not even a good one to debate. People are way too divided. Oil prices and the economy however, that's one clear cut debate and the candidate that can put forward something people can understand and agree with will be a sure winner.

Stop concentrating on foreign policy and look at your own backyard.
 
2008-07-21 2:37:45 PM  
Yes, much of the country is indeed NOT on fire. Proof positive that this was a great idea from start to finish... which should be about 100 years from now.
 
2008-07-21 2:39:23 PM  
Obama was wrong about the surge and he should admit it.
 
MIU
2008-07-21 2:39:47 PM  
I'd love to see Obama dare McCain to admit that the whole Iraq invasion was a pointless clusterfark, and that Shinseki was right.

I also love how McCain is supposedly the experienced, Very Serious (tm) forein policy expert, and yet apparently never looked at a farking map of the region he's an expert in.
 
2008-07-21 2:40:26 PM  
cs-music.comView Full Size


It was sure as hell no Mt. Dew.
 
2008-07-21 2:41:16 PM  
helix400: Good. Obama has been lying about his surge position.

In January 2007, he said more troops will cause more violence. "I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq is going to solve the sectarian violence there. In fact, I think it will do the reverse."

In January 2008, he said that he's always had the position that more troops would reduce violence. "I had no doubt, and I said at the time when I opposed the surge, that given how wonderfully our troops perform, if we place 30,000 more troops in there, then we would see an improvement in the security situation and we would see a reduction in the violence."


Your right! We should vote for a 100% truthful politician who can foretell the future!

Good luck with that...
 
2008-07-21 2:41:20 PM  
helix400: Good. Obama has been lying about his surge position.

In January 2007, he said more troops will cause more violence. "I am not persuaded that 20,000 additional troops in Iraq is going to solve the sectarian violence there. In fact, I think it will do the reverse."

In January 2008, he said that he's always had the position that more troops would reduce violence. "I had no doubt, and I said at the time when I opposed the surge, that given how wonderfully our troops perform, if we place 30,000 more troops in there, then we would see an improvement in the security situation and we would see a reduction in the violence."


Um, you MAY want to look at the context of that...
 
2008-07-21 2:41:59 PM  
The iraq war was a pointless clusterfark and mccain should admit it.
 
2008-07-21 2:42:34 PM  
Obama with the slight breach of etiquette...

i238.photobucket.comView Full Size
 
2008-07-21 2:43:27 PM  
Spanky_McFarksalot: Obama was wrong about the surge and he should admit it.

HUH? (new window)

/Not a Rickroll
 
2008-07-21 2:43:37 PM  
jerzakie: It was sure as hell no Mt. Dew.

sidesalad.netView Full Size


"It's Serge, Achwell. 'Surge'? Sounds like a detergent...."
 
2008-07-21 2:45:15 PM  
I decided to beat my wife, but before I killed her I decided to stop beating her.. Now admit it guys -- What's done is done and we can't change the past... But what's important is, I made the right decision....
 
2008-07-21 2:47:14 PM  
If Obama gets us out of the quagmire of Iraq and eases military spending just a smidge (say by about $1 trillion), then, I'm happy.

/ Hannity and Rush don't have any real talking points on the guy
// Ha. Ha.
 
2008-07-21 2:47:58 PM  
danielsangeo: Um, you MAY want to look at the context of that...

It changes nothing. I did look at the context (those who know me know I'm a stickler for context).

Obama before said more US troops = more violence. After the surge worked, Obama said that he's ALWAYS said more US troops = less violence.

The context only shows that Obama has opposed the surge regardless of whether the surge worked or not.
 
2008-07-21 2:48:19 PM  
Surge = Bribes not shoot at us long enough for the oil companies can get their oil leases we can spread freedom in the region.

Direct military action in the middle east is about the dumbest thing you can do, next to being a foreign army occupying a middle east state. We need to get the fark out of there asap.
 
2008-07-21 2:49:24 PM  
the surge just moved them into afghanistan... ask these people in kabul if the surge worked - but wait until they're not on fire

images.usatoday.comView Full Size
 
2008-07-21 2:51:07 PM  
helix400: danielsangeo: Um, you MAY want to look at the context of that...

It changes nothing. I did look at the context (those who know me know I'm a stickler for context).

Obama before said more US troops = more violence. After the surge worked, Obama said that he's ALWAYS said more US troops = less violence.

The context only shows that Obama has opposed the surge regardless of whether the surge worked or not.


He voted against the war before it began and so wins by 1 billions points. Game over.
 
2008-07-21 2:52:34 PM  
helix400: danielsangeo: Um, you MAY want to look at the context of that...

It changes nothing. I did look at the context (those who know me know I'm a stickler for context).

Obama before said more US troops = more violence. After the surge worked, Obama said that he's ALWAYS said more US troops = less violence.

The context only shows that Obama has opposed the surge regardless of whether the surge worked or not.


Yes, but the surge DIDN'T reduce violence. Unless you count coming off the spike and returning to pre-spike levels as "reducing violence".

/I don't
 
2008-07-21 2:54:00 PM  
These are the annual fatalities of military members while actively serving in the armed forces from 1980 through 2007 - by any cause.


1980 .......... 2,392 ( Carter Year)

1981 .......... 2,380 ( Reagan Year)

1984 .......... 1,999 ( Reagan Year)

1988 .......... 1,819 ( Reagan Year)

1989 .......... 1,636 ( George H W Year )

1990 .......... 1,508 ( George H W Year )

1991 .......... 1,787 ( George H W Year )

1992 .......... 1,293 ( George H W Year )

1993 .......... 1,213 ( Clinton Year)

1994 .......... 1,075 ( Clinton Year)

1995 .......... 2,465 ( Clinton Year)

1996 .......... 2,318 ( Clinton Year)

1997 .......... 817 ( Clinton Year)

1998 .......... 2,252 ( Clinton Year)

1999 .......... 1,984 ( Clinton Year)

2000 ...........1,983 ( Clinton Year)

2001 ............ 890 ( George W Year )

2002 .......... 1,007 ( George W Year )

2003 .......... 1,410 ( George W Year )

2004 .......... 1,887 ( George W Year )

2005 ............ 919 ( George W Year )

2006............. 920 ( George W Year )

2007............. 899 ( George W Year )

Total for Clinton years (1993-2000): 14,107 deaths

Total for George W years (2001-2007): 7,932 deaths
You're probably surprised when you look at these figures.

These figures mean that the loss from the two latest conflicts in the
Middle East was LESS than the loss of military personnel during Bill
Clinton's presidency; when America wasn't even involved in a war!

In 1980, during the administration of President (Nobel Peace Prize winner)
Jimmy Carter, there were 2,392 US military fatalities! What war were we in then?

Liberals will twist anything to have it support their agruement. Aren't facts a biatch!
 
2008-07-21 2:56:59 PM  
rstarkmi: These are the annual fatalities of military members while actively serving in the armed forces from 1980 through 2007 - by any cause.


1980 .......... 2,392 ( Carter Year)

1981 .......... 2,380 ( Reagan Year)

1984 .......... 1,999 ( Reagan Year)

1988 .......... 1,819 ( Reagan Year)

1989 .......... 1,636 ( George H W Year )

1990 .......... 1,508 ( George H W Year )

1991 .......... 1,787 ( George H W Year )

1992 .......... 1,293 ( George H W Year )

1993 .......... 1,213 ( Clinton Year)

1994 .......... 1,075 ( Clinton Year)

1995 .......... 2,465 ( Clinton Year)

1996 .......... 2,318 ( Clinton Year)

1997 .......... 817 ( Clinton Year)

1998 .......... 2,252 ( Clinton Year)

1999 .......... 1,984 ( Clinton Year)

2000 ...........1,983 ( Clinton Year)

2001 ............ 890 ( George W Year )

2002 .......... 1,007 ( George W Year )

2003 .......... 1,410 ( George W Year )

2004 .......... 1,887 ( George W Year )

2005 ............ 919 ( George W Year )

2006............. 920 ( George W Year )

2007............. 899 ( George W Year )

Total for Clinton years (1993-2000): 14,107 deaths

Total for George W years (2001-2007): 7,932 deaths
You're probably surprised when you look at these figures.

These figures mean that the loss from the two latest conflicts in the
Middle East was LESS than the loss of military personnel during Bill
Clinton's presidency; when America wasn't even involved in a war!

In 1980, during the administration of President (Nobel Peace Prize winner)
Jimmy Carter, there were 2,392 US military fatalities! What war were we in then?

Liberals will twist anything to have it support their agruement. Aren't facts a biatch!


See if you say something that has an actual meaning and good facts... Finishing it with "biatch" doesn't help your case.
 
2008-07-21 2:58:07 PM  
The Messiah is never wrong. Thus the Messiah will admit to no wrongdoing.
 
2008-07-21 2:58:42 PM  
hitlersbrain: Yes, but the surge DIDN'T reduce violence. Unless you count coming off the spike and returning to pre-spike levels as "reducing violence".

It didn't?

rbsp.infoView Full Size


Keep in mind, that violence is down much more since this graph ended in November 2007.
 
2008-07-21 3:00:04 PM  
Rethorn: IcedPee: burndtdan: but if you account for the increased troop levels, the death to troop ratio has gone down significantly!

Wow.. It sounds like a troll, but there is logic to it. You are magnificent!

Its not Trolling, its Sarcasm.

/Fark.com


major sarcasm. but i have to hand it to poe's law, i still caught a few even though i wasn't trying to.
 
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