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(Politico)   Al Gore would never resort to half-truths, hyperbole, hysterical fearmongering or shrill rhetoric. So when he says offshore drilling is just like invading Iraq, he must be on to some new inconvenient truth   (politico.com) divider line
    More: Asinine  
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428 clicks; posted to Politics » and Main » on 21 Jul 2008 at 11:50 AM (14 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2008-07-21 10:26:58 AM  
submitter: So when he says offshore drilling is just like invading Iraq,

Stupid is not something to be proud of Subby. Gore is absolutly right- offshore drilling is as backwards and misconceived as the iraq war. It will not solve anything, and will contribute to global warming and potentially more environmental damage.
 
2008-07-21 10:56:52 AM  
Let's see...

1. Ill conceived? Check
2. Being pitched by Republicans as a means of solving a national crisis? Check
3. Will do nothing to solve this crisis? Check
4. Benefits a corporatist agenda? Check
5. Will cause far more damage than the public is being made aware of? Check

So, submitter, how is he wrong here?
 
2008-07-21 11:07:20 AM  
It's great that the two biggest things in the news can be linked together so easily like that. It really brings it home for some folks.
 
2008-07-21 11:08:30 AM  
That's just stupid. It's like the holocaust.

/actually he just says it's similar in that both are a "solution" that's misleading and won't work
 
2008-07-21 11:09:47 AM  
There is no quick-fix solution to the energy problems we are facing. We need to be thinking in a 20 year time frame. Would offshore drilling help us become less dependent on foreign oil sources? Yes, it likely would, especially by that time. For that reason, it's a good idea.
 
2008-07-21 11:19:35 AM  
KaponoFor3: Would offshore drilling help us become less dependent on foreign oil sources?

The problem isn't oil; the problem is energy.

The problem isn't whether or not offshore oil is being utilized. The problem is oil's dominance in the American energy market.

The problem is that the US is only spending $4 billion annually - mere pocket change - in R&D for alternative energy sources. Your country is like an alcoholic, trying to solve his depression by finding new ways to get alcohol.
 
2008-07-21 11:21:52 AM  
KaponoFor3: There is no quick-fix solution to the energy problems we are facing. We need to be thinking in a 20 year time frame. Would offshore drilling help us become less dependent on foreign oil sources? Yes, it likely would, especially by that time. For that reason, it's a good idea.

Nope, offshore drilling will not make a noticeable difference in foreign oil dependency. Try again. If people like you are so gung-ho about drilling for more oil, how about all the land already leased to the oil companies?
 
2008-07-21 11:22:01 AM  
GWShenlong05: 3. Will do nothing to solve this crisis immediately? Check

FTFY

Any new drilling won't fix squat for at least another 5 years, if not more. It WILL help in the future, though.

Also, more refineries.

KaponoFor3: There is no quick-fix solution to the energy problems we are facing. We need to be thinking in a 20 year time frame. Would offshore drilling help us become less dependent on foreign oil sources? Yes, it likely would, especially by that time. For that reason, it's a good idea.

My point exactly.
 
2008-07-21 11:33:17 AM  
GWShenlong05: The problem isn't oil; the problem is energy.

The problem isn't whether or not offshore oil is being utilized. The problem is oil's dominance in the American energy market.

The problem is that the US is only spending $4 billion annually - mere pocket change - in R&D for alternative energy sources. Your country is like an alcoholic, trying to solve his depression by finding new ways to get alcohol.


All true. But these magical renewable energy technologies and sources are not going to appear out of thin air. We will not be able to snap our fingers and make a 100% change to renewable energy overnight. We will still need oil while we ween ourselves off of it. I'd prefer it come from US offshore drilling as opposed to the Saudi sheiks.

GAT_00: Nope, offshore drilling will not make a noticeable difference in foreign oil dependency. Try again. If people like you are so gung-ho about drilling for more oil, how about all the land already leased to the oil companies?

Well I mean if a reasonable and non-partisan person like GAT_OO says it won't make a difference, I guess that solves it.

*rolls eyes*

It'd be better to get the oil from there than to get it from the Middle East. Period. That's why I am in favor of offshore drilling.

xanadian: Any new drilling won't fix squat for at least another 5 years, if not more. It WILL help in the future, though.

Also, more refineries.


Adding refineries would also be a great idea. Won't help today, but will help in 10-20 years when we begin to ween ourselves off of oil (hopefully)
 
2008-07-21 11:42:05 AM  
KaponoFor3

Didn't answer my question about the land the oil companies already have. Those leased lands hold oil amounts far in excess of the oil that can be found from offshore drilling. So why go offshore? Full-scale shale oil drilling would completely remove our Mid East dependence. So, why go with the half measures?

reasonable and non-partisan person

Yeah, not a Dem, and I've clearly never taken positions against Democrats. I am quite reasonable, your points just tend to have glaring holes in them.
 
2008-07-21 11:54:52 AM  
GAT_00: Didn't answer my question about the land the oil companies already have. Those leased lands hold oil amounts far in excess of the oil that can be found from offshore drilling. So why go offshore? Full-scale shale oil drilling would completely remove our Mid East dependence. So, why go with the half measures?

How can you say that those leased lands hold oil in amounts "far in excess of the oil that can be found from offshore drilling"?

Do you really think that the oil companies, with the price of oil as high as it is now, are just going to go "well fark it, we could make billions in profit if we drill on this leased land... but instead, let's just let it sit barren." If they don't use the land, they will lose the lease as per terms with the federal government. If they aren't drilling on land they have leased, there is either:

a) No oil
b) Oil present but it is economically unfeasible to retrieve it.

Given the price of a barrel of oil, I'd tend to reason it's (a) more than (b).

Even if it is true, if the oil companies believe that they could extract oil from offshore drilling, their status on leased federal lands is irrelevant. More oil coming from the US = less oil coming from the Middle East, and that is a good thing no matter who you ask.
 
2008-07-21 11:55:02 AM  
GWShenlong05: Let's see...

1. Ill conceived? Check
2. Being pitched by Republicans as a means of solving a national crisis? Check
3. Will do nothing to solve this crisis? Check
4. Benefits a corporatist agenda? Check
5. Will cause far more damage than the public is being made aware of? Check

So, submitter, how is he wrong here?


Because algore is fat and a liar.
 
2008-07-21 11:55:33 AM  
KaponoFor3: All true. But these magical renewable energy technologies and sources are not going to appear out of thin air. We will not be able to snap our fingers and make a 100% change to renewable energy overnight. We will still need oil while we ween ourselves off of it. I'd prefer it come from US offshore drilling as opposed to the Saudi sheiks.

Yes, this is true. You know what the problem is, though?

That I see Republican Congressmen and oil companies shamelessly promoting the same agenda on offshore drilling. Yet, all of them are eerily silent about committing more federal dollars towards creating alternative fuel sources.

They talk about it, as though one energy source is just supposed to step in and replace oil, leaving the archaic energy infrastructure intact. Instead of oil, cars will arrive at stations and fill up on, I dunno...unicorn tears? Which will also power domestic water heaters, public transit vehicles, home appliances, and traffic lights.

I was speaking to the head of Ontario Power Authority a few weeks ago, and he brought up a great point. That our means of finding the most concentrated forms of energy (oil, hydroelectricity, coal, etc.) have nearly been exhausted, and we are running on reserve supplies - for however long they last. The less concentrated forms of energy (Wind, solar, wave, etc.) are indeed more expensive to deliver to consumers. But that's only assuming that we use them in the same way.

For instance, in Japan and China, many homes have solar panels on the roof for the sole purpose of heating the water tank. The installation costs are moderately expensive, but as the project grows in scale, the costs are dropping. This is one way to reduce oil and coal consumption. The streetlights and parking slip dispensers (We don't use meters any more) right here in Toronto are also powered by panels.

It's almost like the way one would lighten a car for performance racing. You're probably not going to find a single hundred-pound object to remove, but you likely will find several objects weighing one, five, and ten pounds that can be removed. That is the approach we need to be taking with energy; using multiple streams, rather than holding out for the one great energy source that will replace coal and oil.
 
2008-07-21 11:56:55 AM  
KaponoFor3: There is no quick-fix solution to the energy problems we are facing. We need to be thinking in a 20 year time frame. Would offshore drilling help us become less dependent on foreign oil sources? Yes, it likely would, especially by that time. For that reason, it's a good idea.

No no no nononono. First of all it'd take 10 years to GET any of the oil so by the time it affected supply we could realistically have come up with an alternative to oil. Second it does NOT lessen dependency on foreign oil becuase all that "foreign" oil and this "domestic" oil is processed by the same companies for the same price and even though many of them are American countries we pay the same amount as everyone else. We don't need to be less dependent on "foreign" oil we need to be less dependent on oil. Period. This would not help us do that.
 
2008-07-21 11:57:17 AM  
Gore lost it long ago. I think he's actually come to beleive what he says.

/Buy his offsets and make him feel better.
 
2008-07-21 11:57:44 AM  
They've I've hear that more drilling won't make a difference in the oil supply for at least 5 years... in fact I've been hearing this for 10 years
 
2008-07-21 11:59:40 AM  
Americans have been "so often fooled into finding a remedy for a problem" that has nothing to do with the problem at hand

This is a true statement, though I think one would have to redefine the 'problem at hand' in regards to Iraq in order for it to make sense.
 
2008-07-21 12:00:01 PM  
Whoops, I fail majorly. I just spotted something stupid and jumped on it without looking to see that it had already been thuroughly debunked and that it was Kapono who said it. It's not like the facts matter to him. I'll just slink out over here.
 
2008-07-21 12:01:12 PM  
GWShenlong05: That I see Republican Congressmen and oil companies shamelessly promoting the same agenda on offshore drilling. Yet, all of them are eerily silent about committing more federal dollars towards creating alternative fuel sources.

Fair enough -- I'd have the same criticism. I'll all for a massive increase in federal funding towards renewable energy/alternative fuel sources and technology.

Falcc: First of all it'd take 10 years to GET any of the oil so by the time it affected supply we could realistically have come up with an alternative to oil

This is just false, even by the most optimistic of projections. All oil replaced within 10 years? Not a chance.

Falcc: Second it does NOT lessen dependency on foreign oil becuase all that "foreign" oil and this "domestic" oil is processed by the same companies for the same price and even though many of them are American countries we pay the same amount as everyone else.

I'd support legislation saying that any of the oil taken from US land/US offshore has to be sold in the US -- make it contingent on allowing the companies access to the land/offshore drilling. Don't like it? No permit to operate, sorry.

We don't need to be less dependent on "foreign" oil we need to be less dependent on oil. Period. This would not help us do that.

I agree, but if we have to use oil (which we do and will have to do for a long, long time), I'd prefer to use domestic oil rather than foreign oil.
 
2008-07-21 12:03:12 PM  
i209.photobucket.comView Full Size
 
2008-07-21 12:05:29 PM  
KaponoFor3: Do you really think that the oil companies, with the price of oil as high as it is now, are just going to go "well fark it, we could make billions in profit if we drill on this leased land... but instead, let's just let it sit barren."

Yes, if not using the land results in higher prices and thus higher profits for them. Obama has already said it, what's the point of giving them more land if they won't use the ones they already have? I say listen to Maxine Waters, nationalize the refinery system, and let's start pumping that oil ourselves. Big Oil has too many conflicts to take care of us.
 
2008-07-21 12:08:14 PM  
Iraq was a distraction from Bin Ladin's attack and those that support him -- furthermore, we reacted just as he'd hoped to make more Bin Ladin supporters.

Drilling more holes is a distraction from getting off oil -- furthermore, it's exactly what the Saudis would love us to do, as it reinforces the addiction.

He's right.

Fail subtard.
 
2008-07-21 12:10:48 PM  
Remove all Republicans: Yes, if not using the land results in higher prices and thus higher profits for them.

That's dumb -- and oil companies aren't dumb, especially when it comes to making money. Plus they know that if they have the land but do not utilize it, they lose their leases. That mechanism was placed on the leases by the federal government solely for this type of reason -- to force people not to speculate and freeze the resources inherent in the land to raise prices.

Obama has already said it, what's the point of giving them more land if they won't use the ones they already have?

Just because Obama repeats a "Democratic talking point" doesn't make it automatically true... unless you are a member of:

i166.photobucket.comView Full Size


I say listen to Maxine Waters, nationalize the refinery system, and let's start pumping that oil ourselves. Big Oil has too many conflicts to take care of us.

I don't support nationalization of the refinery system, but as I said above, I would support saying that any and all oil discovered in the US must be sold in the US.
 
2008-07-21 12:11:39 PM  
Falcc: First of all it'd take 10 years to GET any of the oil so by the time it affected supply we could realistically have come up with an alternative to oil.

And if we don't have that alternative by then? If we aren't all wealthy enough to trade all of our cars in for the magical alternative?
 
2008-07-21 12:17:02 PM  
KaponoFor3: I don't support nationalization of the refinery system, but as I said above, I would support saying that any and all oil discovered in the US must be sold in the US.

Interesting idea, I suppose...but if we do that, what's to stop other countries from enacting the same policies in their home countries? If everyone's just going to focus on their own primary supplies, we, the U.S., get farked in the end.
 
2008-07-21 12:18:21 PM  
CalvinMorallis: Interesting idea, I suppose...but if we do that, what's to stop other countries from enacting the same policies in their home countries? If everyone's just going to focus on their own primary supplies, we, the U.S., get farked in the end.

Nothing is to stop other countries from enacting the same policies. I highly doubt that the Middle East markets would do this as they have way more supply than they do demand. Regardless, its not the US' problem -- cause remember, within 10 years we won't need oil! YAY! We will power our cars with hopes, dreams, and sunshine!
 
2008-07-21 12:21:53 PM  
KaponoFor3: cause remember, within 10 years we won't need oil! YAY! We will power our cars with hopes, dreams, and sunshine!

Don't devalue the points you're trying to make by acting like a jackass.

Anyway, the oil market is pretty damn volitile (I can't spell, sorry) around the world, and not just here. Think of it this way--say the Saudis just came out tomorrow and said, "You know what, we're in a crunch over here, so we're not going to ship out any of our own oil anymore." What do you think the U.S. reaction would be? We'd sure as shiat stop shipping our own oil out of country, at least to the Saudis.

Same scenario would be in play the other way, too...if we enacted rules that said domestically drilled oil stayed state-side, then other countries would likely just shrug and say, "alright, well you can't have any of ours, either."

It's be like a new farking cold war
 
2008-07-21 12:22:58 PM  
Al gore. AL GORE! ALGORE!!! AL GORE!!! ALLLGGOOORRREEEEE!!!!!!
 
2008-07-21 12:24:25 PM  
CalvinMorallis: Think of it this way--say the Saudis just came out tomorrow and said, "You know what, we're in a crunch over here, so we're not going to ship out any of our own oil anymore." What do you think the U.S. reaction would be?

We'd bend over and pay $11 per gallon at the pump while wishing that years ago we'd become independent from a region of the world that hates us.
 
2008-07-21 12:25:39 PM  
KaponoFor3: I would support saying that any and all oil discovered in the US must be sold in the US.

Might be a nice start - we currently export about 12% of our production just to turn around and buy that same amount back from abroad and then an additional 12 million bbl/day. We're not even using our entire capacity that we pump today - we're sending it to other countries. Thanks, WTO. It was the Republicans that allowed this to happen in the first place (with Clint0wn3d's blessing), so forgive me for not thinking that increasing drilling will really increase domestic supply. We'll just send more oil to other countries.

Oil - production: 8.322 million bbl/day (2005 est.)
Oil - consumption: 20.8 million bbl/day (2005 est.)
Oil - exports: 1.048 million bbl/day (2004)
Oil - imports: 13.15 million bbl/day (2004)
Oil - proved reserves: 21.76 billion bbl (1 January 2006 est.)
(new window)
 
2008-07-21 12:26:55 PM  
CalvinMorallis: Same scenario would be in play the other way, too...if we enacted rules that said domestically drilled oil stayed state-side, then other countries would likely just shrug and say, "alright, well you can't have any of ours, either."

That wouldn't even make sense. The only countries that would enact the same rules would be the countries that buy our oil. Saudi and Venezuela don't use our oil so enacting such a rule at home wouldn't change our trade policies with them whatsoever.
 
2008-07-21 12:27:56 PM  
GoldSpider: We'd bend over and pay $11 per gallon at the pump while wishing that years ago we'd become independent from a region of the world that hates us.

Hmph. Okay, replace "Saudis" with any other oil-producing country, then. The point isn't that they hate us and blah, blah blah; the point is that the whole "make U.S. drilling projects supply U.S. interests only" idea makes absolutely no sense, and would actually make us worse off, as the rest of the world's oil-producing countries would cut off their supplies to us...and that's not a fight we're going to come out on top of.
 
2008-07-21 12:29:11 PM  
Shaggy_C: CalvinMorallis: Same scenario would be in play the other way, too...if we enacted rules that said domestically drilled oil stayed state-side, then other countries would likely just shrug and say, "alright, well you can't have any of ours, either."

That wouldn't even make sense. The only countries that would enact the same rules would be the countries that buy our oil. Saudi and Venezuela don't use our oil so enacting such a rule at home wouldn't change our trade policies with them whatsoever.


Ack! :0)~ Didn't know that....sorry for my ignorance.
 
2008-07-21 12:29:39 PM  
CalvinMorallis: Don't devalue the points you're trying to make by acting like a jackass.

Fair enough -- just trying to inject a little sarcasm/humor into the equation.

CalvinMorallis: It's be like a new farking cold war

I could see that happening -- but, if nothing else, it could increase the urgency that we need to have in order to ween ourselves off of oil. Necessity is the mother of invention.
 
2008-07-21 12:31:13 PM  
CalvinMorallis: the point is that the whole "make U.S. drilling projects supply U.S. interests only" idea makes absolutely no sense, and would actually make us worse off, as the rest of the world's oil-producing countries would cut off their supplies to us...and that's not a fight we're going to come out on top of.

But would they? Think about it, like Shaggy said, we only export 1 million barrels a day. Chances are that doesn't all go to one foreign country only. I doubt there would be trade retaliations because that amount is a mere drop in the sink for importing countries, which mainly get their oil from the Middle East.
 
2008-07-21 12:34:21 PM  
KaponoFor3: CalvinMorallis: Don't devalue the points you're trying to make by acting like a jackass.

Fair enough -- just trying to inject a little sarcasm/humor into the equation.

CalvinMorallis: It's be like a new farking cold war

I could see that happening -- but, if nothing else, it could increase the urgency that we need to have in order to ween ourselves off of oil. Necessity is the mother of invention.


I agree, it would increase urgency...but what scares me is that there is some pretty damn intense urgency right now, and nothing's getting done. Those in the public eye who dare to advocate, specifically, for alternative energy policies are freaking ridiculed: Al Gore, for example, has been turned into a punch line for his advocating; and John McCain is having a hard time getting hardcore conservative support because, in part, he believes we need to pursue alternative energy sources.

In short: those in favor of drilling (for the most part--sorry to generalize) will put forth specific policies in the way of new drilling projects; and when called on the fact that we need alternative energy solutions, there's a metaphorical shrug of the shoulders and and the admission that, "Yeah, we should look into that." But then it goes nowhere.
 
2008-07-21 12:34:38 PM  
KaponoFor3: But would they? Think about it, like Shaggy said, we only export 1 million barrels a day. Chances are that doesn't all go to one foreign country only.

Mostly S. Korea and Japan IIRC. And we definitely don't get any major volume in return from them.
 
2008-07-21 12:36:34 PM  
CalvinMorallis: The point isn't that they hate us and blah, blah blah; the point is that the whole "make U.S. drilling projects supply U.S. interests only" idea makes absolutely no sense, and would actually make us worse off, as the rest of the world's oil-producing countries would cut off their supplies to us...and that's not a fight we're going to come out on top of.

So the way I see it, the only way out of this (temporarily) is to increase domestic production, release it to the open market (as it is now) and let supply/demand work its magic. In the meantime, we work on an energy source that we don't have to import.
 
2008-07-21 12:39:10 PM  
Won't Gore ever just go the hell away? It's like Jimmy Carter and Jesse Jackson. I'm sorry to tell you, but NO-ONE gives a shiat about you anymore you over the hill hacks.
 
2008-07-21 12:39:39 PM  
KaponoFor3: But would they? Think about it, like Shaggy said, we only export 1 million barrels a day. Chances are that doesn't all go to one foreign country only. I doubt there would be trade retaliations because that amount is a mere drop in the sink for importing countries, which mainly get their oil from the Middle East.

Hey, I concede the point. If I'd thought out my own..um...thinking more, I should've picked it up myself. Having so little oil that we have to drill = not having enough to oil to hurt other countries if we cut them off. My mistake.
 
2008-07-21 12:44:16 PM  
CalvinMorallis: Those in the public eye who dare to advocate, specifically, for alternative energy policies are freaking ridiculed: Al Gore, for example, has been turned into a punch line for his advocating


3_Butt_Cheeks: Won't Gore ever just go the hell away? It's like Jimmy Carter and Jesse Jackson. I'm sorry to tell you, but NO-ONE gives a shiat about you anymore you over the hill hacks.

So there.
 
2008-07-21 12:44:47 PM  
GWShenlong05: Let's see...

1. Ill conceived? Check
2. Being pitched by Republicans as a means of solving a national crisis? Check
3. Will do nothing to solve this crisis? Check
4. Benefits a corporatist agenda? Check
5. Will cause far more damage than the public is being made aware of? Check

So, submitter, how is he wrong here?


That's just like your opinion man.
 
2008-07-21 12:46:21 PM  
CalvinMorallis: Hey, I concede the point. If I'd thought out my own..um...thinking more, I should've picked it up myself. Having so little oil that we have to drill = not having enough to oil to hurt other countries if we cut them off. My mistake.

It's all good, no worries. You get points in my book for being able to admit a mistake, unlike some of the more hard-edged posters here.
 
2008-07-21 12:53:08 PM  
GoldSpider: And if we don't have that alternative by then? If we aren't all wealthy enough to trade all of our cars in for the magical alternative?

Lemme put it this way. Say you're in jail and you've got some soap, let's say that is the transportation system in this country as a whole, and some cigarettes, that's oil. Someone is willing to provide you with lengths of string for every pack of cigarettes you trade, this is alternative energy research. Now, you can start trading those packs away and try to get yourself some rudimentary soap on a rope in a fair amount of time, or you could stick to your addiction and risk dropping the soap. Do you know what happens when you drop the soap? Same thing with oil.

Sure, you could just take the chance that you're going to be able to hold onto our current set up indefinately and never start weening off oil, but eventually you're gonna slip up and then the country is farked. So either we put a bunch more money into research and conservation or we focus on a far-fetched drilling plan. We're to the point where our options are running low and it won't be enough to just say "what if I can't use my SUV anymore?"
 
2008-07-21 12:56:17 PM  
Falcc: So either we put a bunch more money into research and conservation or we focus on a far-fetched drilling plan

Ah, this explains things. You are mistaken in that the two are not mutually exclusive -- we could drill offshore and we could also pour money into R&D.
 
2008-07-21 1:05:17 PM  
how is drilling far fetched Falcc? Do you want to keep buying oil from the middle east and make saudi princes rich? or do you want to create more JOBS in the US and produce it here?
I agree we have to get away from Oil, but until those new technologies are proven, we have to do what we can to keep the production in the US. And we can't rush it either, look at ethanol. Gore sold that to all the hippy environmentalists, and now more and more corn is being used to produce ethanol (which costs more to make) and is starving people we used to export the corn too. Reduce carbon emissions and cause starvation. Great job.
 
2008-07-21 1:10:12 PM  
KaponoFor3: Falcc: So either we put a bunch more money into research and conservation or we focus on a far-fetched drilling plan

Ah, this explains things. You are mistaken in that the two are not mutually exclusive -- we could drill offshore and we could also pour money into R&D.


Ah but how would that fit into my convoluted metaphor? Once again you are bested.

Seriously though, we've established that the drilling offshore won't produce any oil for a number of years. What we're looking at is a Jimmy Carter situation. Right now we have an oil crisis which we could be addressing, we could be focusing all our efforts on developing cellulosic ethanol, increasing the range of electric cars, increasing the stability of nuclear energy cells, and then 5-10 years later we get another shot of oil and we're hooked again. Hey, as long as we've got this oil we can wait a little while to swap over to our newly developed solar powered unicorn hybrids. Don't want to waste it, right? OPEC all over again. Everything is working again NOW, why bother?

I'm not saying we don't need oil while we're transitioning but if we suddenly start getting a suply again just as we're moving away from it it'll put off the inevitable again, and hey, after that's gone there's always one more place we could be drilling. We aren't making a real attempt at fixing the problem becuase there's another bandage we could put over it. Maybe there's a way to do both, but we're not that type of country.
 
2008-07-21 1:10:17 PM  
The blog's direct quotes has a mysterious hiatus right in place where Gore allegedly made the comparison.

"The defenders of the status quo are the ones who have dug us into this hole," he said, commenting that Americans have been "so often fooled into finding a remedy for a problem" that has nothing to do with the problem at hand - pointing to the invasion of Iraq when America was attacked by terrorists in Afghanistan as an example.

"The engines of distraction and the great concentrated power of communication that you've seen turned on this issue or that issue is already hard at work," he says.


Funny isn't it?

You people LIKE being lied to.
 
2008-07-21 1:14:54 PM  
KaponoFor3: More oil coming from the US = less oil coming from the Middle East, and that is a good thing no matter who you ask.

you new to fark?
 
2008-07-21 1:18:26 PM  
PenisGargle: how is drilling far fetched Falcc? Do you want to keep buying oil from the middle east and make saudi princes rich? or do you want to create more JOBS in the US and produce it here?
I agree we have to get away from Oil, but until those new technologies are proven, we have to do what we can to keep the production in the US. And we can't rush it either, look at ethanol. Gore sold that to all the hippy environmentalists, and now more and more corn is being used to produce ethanol (which costs more to make) and is starving people we used to export the corn too. Reduce carbon emissions and cause starvation. Great job.


I didn't realize the corn lobby was composed of enviormentalists. You'd think with all the clearing forests for farmland and all they might be a profit-based industry, which would explain their eagerness to push a crappy idea like ethanol based on food. Shows what I know huh?

Now how many times does this have to be said, off-shore drilling is far fetched becuase no matter WHERE oil is produced it is still turned into gasoline by companies that sell it all over the world. Canada produces far more oil than we do, hell we get more oil from them than most of the middle east, they're paying more for gas than we are. Why? It's processed outside of Canada and sold back to them. They don't seperate it into vats for the Saudi oil money and the Canadian oil money, they just get it all over, process it, sell it to all the different countries.

Now if you wanted to nationalize so we'd be cut off of that Saudi, and Canadian, crude and run out of oil before we could even finish drill, that's one thing. But people seem to think that if we were personally drilling it they wouldn't let any of it be sold to India and China, who're buying it up for their industrial revolutions. Doesn't work that way. Which is why it's far-fetched. Either we get a very small percentage after a long period of time or we get all of it but lose out on the much larger supply from other countries.

We need to ditch the whole process as soon as we can. No more short term stuff like this which wouldn't even work in the short term.
 
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