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(Huffington Post)   In case you were wondering, Obama never, EVER "flip-flops." He does change his mind on occasion. But only John McCain is a flip-flopper   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line
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762 clicks; posted to Politics » on 24 Jun 2008 at 11:21 PM (14 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2008-06-24 5:54:23 PM  
subby: In case you were wondering, Obama never, EVER "flip-flops." He does change his mind on occasion. But only John McCain is a flip-flopper

Poor little subby doesn't like the rules his team wrote in 2004.
 
2008-06-24 5:57:06 PM  
Skleenar

Poor little subby doesn't like the rules his team wrote in 2004.

I came here to say this.
 
2008-06-24 6:39:23 PM  
BizarreRecords: Skleenar

Poor little subby doesn't like the rules his team wrote in 2004.

I came here to say this.


Thirded.
 
2008-06-24 6:58:47 PM  
I personally want a political that can reassess situations when new evidence is presented. Anyone to "stays the course" in light of inpending disaster or who is dead wrong is a freaking moron.

Also, with the way everyone biatches about Rove and his dirty tactics should we strive to be better than that? The situation is never going to get better until one side actually holds itself to the standards they expect from the other team.
 
2008-06-24 7:17:29 PM  
Skleenar: Poor little subby doesn't like the rules his team wrote in 2004.

BizarreRecords: I came here to say this.

robsul82: BizarreRecords: Skleenar

Poor little subby doesn't like the rules his team wrote in 2004.

I came here to say this.

Thirded.


So..... you guys are playing out of the Rove playbook, and not only like it, but insist they are rules? Classy
 
2008-06-24 7:30:59 PM  
Tacoby Bellisbury: So..... you guys are playing out of the Rove playbook, and not only like it, but insist they are rules? Classy

That's not the Rove handbook. The Rove handbook involves slander, corruption and obstruction of justice. This is just the rank-and-file GOP handbook.

And where did you ever get the impression we were playing by any such rules?

You usually have a great view of the game from the bleachers, and you often have a better angle on the infractions.

If you are willing to give us reasonable explanations for every time John McCain has changed his story in recent months, I am more than willing to listen to your argument to see if they change my mind from the impression I currently have that he will say anything to get people to vote for him.

I promise I won't shout "FLIP-FLOPPER!!!1!" before listening.
 
2008-06-24 8:07:59 PM  
Skleenar: And where did you ever get the impression we were playing by any such rules?

Could it be the constant calling out of McCain as a 'flip-flopper'?


If you are willing to give us reasonable explanations for every time John McCain has changed his story in recent months, I am more than willing to listen to your argument to see if they change my mind from the impression I currently have that he will say anything to get people to vote for him.


No, thanks, I'll let someone else who has a vested interest in him as a candidate do that. I'm just merely pointing out the rabid hypocrisy in this and most FARK politics threads.
 
2008-06-24 9:07:48 PM  
I'd still bang the ever living shiat out of Obama.

/nothing wrong with changing your mind when the situation changes.
//The sign of a good leader is the ability to successfully adapt to new situations.
 
2008-06-24 9:26:27 PM  
Tacoby Bellisbury: o..... you guys are playing out of the Rove playbook, and not only like it, but insist they are rules? Classy

Wow. You're an idiot. But I'm sure you already knew that.
 
2008-06-24 9:26:33 PM  
Tacoby Bellisbury: Could it be the constant calling out of McCain as a 'flip-flopper'?

You mean what the GOP base and the Wall Street Journal have been accusing him of since this race began? Kid, that didn't originate from the Obama campaign. That started on McCain's side of the aisle.
 
2008-06-24 9:31:21 PM  
Lionel Mandrake: Tacoby Bellisbury: o..... you guys are playing out of the Rove playbook, and not only like it, but insist they are rules? Classy

Wow. You're an idiot. But I'm sure you already knew that.


Please refrain from using personal attacks in a civil political debate.
 
2008-06-24 9:35:00 PM  
Tacoby Bellisbury: Please refrain from using personal attacks in a civil political debate.

If I ever encounter you in a civil debate, I promise to do so.
 
2008-06-24 9:35:53 PM  
EsteeFlwrPot: I'd still bang the ever living shiat out of Obama.

That's a solid 4/10 on the disturbing scale.
 
2008-06-24 10:01:58 PM  
Oh, and, Obama didn't flip and flop his ENTIRE political existence, unlike Senator "Middle of the Road Conserva...Oh Wait Let Me Jump on the Neocon Religious Right Bandwagon" McCain.
 
2008-06-24 10:32:12 PM  
submitter: In case you were wondering, Obama never, EVER "flip-flops." He does change his mind on occasion. But only John McCain is a flip-flopper

I love watching folks like you squirm. It really gets to you, doesn't it? HAHA SQUEAL!!!!SQUEAL!!

I am enjoying this election tremendously.
 
2008-06-24 10:34:14 PM  
Tacoby Bellisbury: Skleenar: And where did you ever get the impression we were playing by any such rules?

Could it be the constant calling out of McCain as a 'flip-flopper'?


If you are willing to give us reasonable explanations for every time John McCain has changed his story in recent months, I am more than willing to listen to your argument to see if they change my mind from the impression I currently have that he will say anything to get people to vote for him.

No, thanks, I'll let someone else who has a vested interest in him as a candidate do that. I'm just merely pointing out the rabid hypocrisy in this and most FARK politics threads.


So you can't. Thanks bunches, Fark IndependentTM.
 
2008-06-24 10:55:00 PM  
robsul82: So you can't. Thanks bunches, Fark IndependentTM.

YES!

arkjournal.comView Full Size
 
2008-06-24 11:02:04 PM  
Skleenar: Tacoby Bellisbury: So..... you guys are playing out of the Rove playbook, and not only like it, but insist they are rules? Classy

That's not the Rove handbook. The Rove handbook involves slander, corruption and obstruction of justice. This is just the rank-and-file GOP handbook.

And where did you ever get the impression we were playing by any such rules?

You usually have a great view of the game from the bleachers, and you often have a better angle on the infractions.

If you are willing to give us reasonable explanations for every time John McCain has changed his story in recent months, I am more than willing to listen to your argument to see if they change my mind from the impression I currently have that he will say anything to get people to vote for him.

I promise I won't shout "FLIP-FLOPPER!!!1!" before listening.


Your statement is a little quirky and misguided, it seems. I don't think I could ever answer anything like that correctly, because no one would ever agree.

Clearly the evidence shows Both McCain and Obama 'flip flopped'. However, each of these decisions were made in different circumstances, and it does us all great disservice to generalize based on this information.
C'mon, that word has been tossed around for a while now. People got excited when that buzz word was dropped back into the mix, and this sub shows that.

What I'm getting at is the desperation of some liberals and democrats who seem to say "Hey- hey- the other guy is doing/did it!!! Don't blame me! Look at what they did!!"

etc, etc, etc
 
2008-06-24 11:06:13 PM  
Tacoby Bellisbury: YES!

HA!!

Not even Fred Thompson could get excited about a Fred Thompson candidacy. Fred's picture belongs in the dictionary next to the entry for "stillborn."
 
2008-06-24 11:16:49 PM  
Lionel Mandrake: Not even Fred Thompson could get excited about a Fred Thompson candidacy. Fred's picture belongs in the dictionary next to the entry for "stillborn."

I think he's a tallented, well-mannered, level-headed kind of guy. I believe that, as a crafted and tested actor, he could be very good at restoring the US of A's IMAGE.

He's politically tested, too. Look at his record in Watergate. Look at his margins. Sigh... If only people would ahve opened their frikkin' eyes and voted for him. I'm still writing him in, though. Who else would/should I vote for? The LP candidates are not my favorite, and if I'm going to throw my vote away, I'll do it for who I damn well please. Obama? No way. McCain? No way. I just think its funny how Obama gets such a pass around here, despite a lot of things that people should be genuinely concerned regarding his inane policies. I would rater see McCain than Obama, if I had to choose, but let's face it, and in fact I said it in some other post- If McCain makes it to the White House, they should close all the blinds, turn up the heat, and keep him heavily medicated for his term.


Politics, ye are a biatch
 
2008-06-24 11:16:54 PM  
Tacoby Bellisbury: robsul82: So you can't. Thanks bunches, Fark IndependentTM.

YES!


Yay, because that...really proves anything?
 
2008-06-24 11:24:46 PM  
FLIP FLOP HURRR
 
2008-06-24 11:25:34 PM  
In other non-trolltastic news, I sincerely hope all the crybabies decrying Fark as Obama-biased have taken note of the headlines under the Politics tab today, and will end their whining forthwith.
 
2008-06-24 11:25:40 PM  
As someone pointed out in my electronic box with the talking heads, McCain is the son of an Admiral, Bush is the son of a President, Obama is the son of some dude from Africa. And Obama is the elitist.

Wheeeeeeeeee. HAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaa.

/Come on Karl. You're slipping.
/Put the penis down and start thinking.
 
2008-06-24 11:29:11 PM  
I will never understand how one rich politician can accuse another rich politician of being an elitist and get away with it?
 
2008-06-24 11:30:09 PM  
Tacoby Bellisbury: I believe that, as a crafted and tested actor, he could be very good at restoring the US of A's IMAGE.

I like him as an actor...he never managed to convey exactly what he stood for as a candidate, though. Whenever I saw him, I always had the feeling he couldn't wait to get home, put his feet up on a nice leather ottoman and swirl a snifter of brandy (NTTIAWWT). That time he refused to answer the moderator's stupid-ass question during the debate was pretty sweet, though.

Interesting that you consider it important what effect a candidate/president could have on restoring the US of A's IMAGE.

If that is really an important consideration for you, then I suggest voting for Obama. Merely electing him would be a huge step in undoing the colossal damage George W. Bush has done to the image of this nation.
 
2008-06-24 11:31:09 PM  
robsul82: In other non-trolltastic news, I sincerely hope all the crybabies decrying Fark as Obama-biased have taken note of the headlines under the Politics tab today, and will end their whining forthwith.

Riiiiiiight! Good luck with that one.
 
2008-06-24 11:31:37 PM  
i honestly don't give a rats ass if a candidate or politician changes their positions. what i want is for them to explain the change. the last thing we need is another president who is unable to admit mistakes, reassess a problem, and devise a better solution.
bush is that set in stone retard and i say phooey who needs more of it?
 
2008-06-24 11:31:41 PM  
EsteeFlwrPot:
I'd still bang the ever living shiat out of Obama.

/nothing wrong with changing your mind when the situation changes.
//The sign of a good leader is the ability to successfully adapt to new situations.


I'm Barack Obama, and I approve this message.

How you doin'?
 
2008-06-24 11:32:01 PM  
Mentat: I will never understand how one rich politician can accuse another rich politician of being an elitist and get away with it?

Elitism is not a number at the end of a bank account, its a mindset. If you magically gave someone millions of dollars, it doesn't make them elitist.
 
2008-06-24 11:34:50 PM  
Mentat: I will never understand how one rich politician can accuse another rich politician of being an elitist and get away with it?

Hi. My name is John McCain. MY father was an Admiral. His father was an Admiral. I married a woman worth over $100 million. Together we own 9 homes. I use her private jet to campaign. My opponent's father left him and his mother when he was just two...they lived on food stamps. He just paid off his student loans last year.

My opponent is such an elitist!!!!
 
2008-06-24 11:35:41 PM  
Lionel Mandrake: I like him as an actor...he never managed to convey exactly what he stood for as a candidate, though.


Neither could anyone else. Thompson was the Republican rorschach candidate - he was everything to everybody without really being anything. The guy slept thought the beginning of the campaign cycle and when he finally threw his hat into the ring nobody cared anymore.
 
2008-06-24 11:35:48 PM  
From the Huffington piece linked to in the article:

"Isn't it interesting how, after largely ignoring the issue for the last 30 years, during which the GOP consistently outfundraised and outspent Democrats in election after election, the media are suddenly all atwitter about whether the campaign finance system is "basically fair"? How dare Obama inspire 1.5 million donors, giving an average of $197 apiece, to help him raise more money than McCain?"

"Amidst all the attacks on Obama's "flip-flop," how much have you read in the MSM about the fact that McCain has "completely reversed himself" on public financing -- and is currently breaking the law on a daily basis, making a mockery out of a campaign finance system he helped create?

In the fall of 2007, McCain opted into the public financing system for the GOP primaries, which meant he'd later receive just over $5 million in public funds in exchange for agreeing to a fundraising limit of around $54 million for the entire primary process, which ends when he accepts the nomination at the Republican National Convention in September.

By late November, his campaign was practically broke, so McCain took out a pair of $1 million loans, using the public funds he would receive as collateral.

Cut to Super Tuesday, when McCain had the Republican nomination all but wrapped up. Suddenly, he didn't want to be bound by that $54 million limit, so his campaign did a 180 and opted back out of the public financing system.

But as David Mason, the Republican-appointed chair of the FEC, has pointed out, you can't just unilaterally opt out -- especially after securing a loan based on having opted in. The response of the McCain campaign is quite simply to ignore Mason. And because the FEC currently lacks a quorum (thanks to stalling tactics by that human roadblock to reform, Mitch McConnell) that's where things stand, pending a ruling on a lawsuit filed by the DNC."

"...the New York Times, the Los Angeles Times, the Philadelphia Inquirer, the CBS Evening News, NBC's Nightly News, Fox News' Special Report, and CNN all dutifully reported McCain's "Big deal" claim without mentioning McCain's campaign finance chicanery."


Damned liberal media pushing for Obama!
 
2008-06-24 11:38:16 PM  
Republicans sporting purple heart band-aids chanted "flip flop" en masse at their convention in 2004, but now they suddenly think using the term is hitting below the belt.

Fine, I'll be the better man. Again.
 
2008-06-24 11:38:23 PM  
Nice to see that no one read the article.

The only thing I got out of it, was that the label "flip-flopper," is used unjustifiably in certain situations. It is a sad state in politics when people change their minds when prevented with contradictory evidence are being labeled as incompetent dolts.
 
2008-06-24 11:39:11 PM  
The question is, could he have given up that lame-ass excuse and said, "To all, I'm in this race to win this race, and I can raise 3 times that money without being beholden to any one person in so doing. Respect my authority!"...or something somewhat close to the truth?

I don't think so...truth is doled out carefully in these times (see Black, Charles, Advisor)
 
2008-06-24 11:40:05 PM  
Gwendolyn: I personally want a political that can reassess situations when new evidence is presented. Anyone to "stays the course" in light of inpending disaster or who is dead wrong is a freaking moron...

THANK YOU. This applies to Obama, McCain, whoever...

Speaking of McCain, however, he does alter his course every other week. Obama, on the other hand, has changed two of his positions, one over four years' time, and the other over several months. I don't necessarily like everything he pushes, but he's consistent with intent.
 
2008-06-24 11:40:15 PM  
Can we all now agree that "flip-flopper" is nothing more than a retarded insult? Jesus, people. NEXT THREAD
 
2008-06-24 11:41:08 PM  
It helps that Obama tends to clarify why he changes a position and McCain tends to say "I never said that."

Reporter: Now you originally agreed with the president that the war would be short and pay for itself and-

McCain: No I didn't.

Reporter: err, well ok, but not long after that you said we were doing everything wrong, that the war was too costly and being conducted badly, so-

McCain: I didn't say that, we're approaching victory in Iraq. It's more peaceful than it's ever been, the government is taking charge in a capable manner, casulties are down.

Reporter: But you said-

McCain: I've always been aware of the costs of war but this is an enemy that hates everything we stand for. We can't back down when there's a country in chaos.

Reporter: About that, when you took a trip to Iraq you claimed that the insurgency was dying down enough to walk through a Bagdahd market.

McCain: I don't remember saying anything like that, we can't leave, it's far too dangerous for us to leave things in the Iraqi government's hands.

Reporter: But earlier in this very interview you said-

McCain: Pancakes!!

And we all know how great politicans can be when they never admit they made a mistake.
 
2008-06-24 11:42:32 PM  
How dare they question St. Obama. Whatever he says is right, understand?
 
2008-06-24 11:42:37 PM  
terriblist: Can we all now agree that "flip-flopper" is nothing more than a retarded insult? Jesus, people. NEXT THREAD

Now if we could only lose that "thrown under the bus" cliche too.
 
2008-06-24 11:42:40 PM  
TheShavingofOccam123: /Put the penis down and start thinking.

You mean this penis?

thebigbadblog.comView Full Size
 
2008-06-24 11:44:48 PM  
Tacoby Bellisbury: robsul82: So you can't. Thanks bunches, Fark IndependentTM.

YES!


I'm very close to putting you on ignore.

NO ONE supports Fred Thompson for president. Not even Fred Thompson supported Fred Thompson for president.
 
2008-06-24 11:46:14 PM  
The_Sponge: How dare they question St. Obama. Whatever he says is right, understand?

Do you guys have a macro for that line?
 
2008-06-24 11:47:20 PM  
Falcc: Reporter: But earlier in this very interview you said-

McCain: Pancakes!!

And we all know how great politicans can be when they never admit they made a mistake


On a serious note related to the comedic one, WTF doesn't anybody have the balls to sit down McCain in front of a live camera, play him footage of himself saying the exact things he claims he's never said, and ask him to explain? I don't know why the media is so weaksauce. Be just as hard to the democrats too, of course, fine; just do your damn jobs. I want McCain to actually have to talk about why instead of just ignoring that it happened.
 
2008-06-24 11:47:59 PM  
What's that? The GOP might be having second thoughts about stupidly attacking Kerry for changing his mind on things? They're now trying to convince us that changing your mind on things might not be that bad after all? Huh. How about that.

You farking retards gave us another four years of George Bush. You deserve everything coming your way. Suck it.
 
2008-06-24 11:49:44 PM  
DrowningLessons: On a serious note related to the comedic one, WTF doesn't anybody have the balls to sit down McCain in front of a live camera, play him footage of himself saying the exact things he claims he's never said, and ask him to explain? I don't know why the media is so weaksauce. Be just as hard to the democrats too, of course, fine; just do your damn jobs. I want McCain to actually have to talk about why instead of just ignoring that it happened.

Rachel Maddow made a great point about this a whle ago. She said that the "glass house" maxim only works when people are willing to throw rocks back at you.

Our media is a bunch of pathetic self-righteous morons.
 
2008-06-24 11:52:38 PM  
Can we all agree that both Obama and McCain are sell-outs who believe getting elected justifies various kinds of awful behavior, but that one of them may be worse than the other?
 
2008-06-24 11:53:12 PM  
KramericaWallet: Can we all agree that both Obama and McCain are sell-outs who believe getting elected justifies various kinds of awful behavior, but that one of them may be worse than the other?

Ummm, no? What awful thing has Obama done?
 
2008-06-24 11:55:59 PM  
robsul82: In other non-trolltastic news, I sincerely hope all the crybabies decrying Fark as Obama-biased have taken note of the headlines under the Politics tab today, and will end their whining forthwith.

It's not Fark itself. It's the Fark userbase that are generally left leaning.

/NTTAWWT
 
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