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(The Mind Unleashed)   General Motors CEO's brilliant defense of the American car industry: Not the only morons around here. (Japan builds gas-guzzling land yachts, too.)   (clusterstock.com) divider line
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1460 clicks; posted to Business » on 06 Jun 2008 at 11:33 AM (14 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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The Icelander
2008-06-06 9:26:44 AM  
Toyota makes the Tundra AND the Prius. And the Yaris. And the Corolla.

GM makes the Silverado and the... Aveo.

Honda makes the Ridgeline AND the Civic Hyrid. And the Fit.

For makes the F-150 and the... Focus.

His defense is ridiculous. American car companies don't make good small cars. If they did, or if they saw that gas prices would only go up, they wouldn't be playing catch up.
 
radarr
2008-06-06 11:09:02 AM  
I'm a Ford truck man, and that's all I drive.

/Obscure?
 
TeddyRooseveltsMustache
2008-06-06 11:42:23 AM  
The Icelander: Toyota makes the Tundra AND the Prius. And the Yaris. And the Corolla.

GM makes the Silverado and the... Aveo.

Honda makes the Ridgeline AND the Civic Hyrid. And the Fit.

For makes the F-150 and the... Focus.

His defense is ridiculous. American car companies don't make good small cars. If they did, or if they saw that gas prices would only go up, they wouldn't be playing catch up.

GM doesn't even make the Aveo, Daewoo does. Oh, previewing your post, and not leaving out letters might be helpful in the future.
 
unyon
2008-06-06 11:47:32 AM  
GM has nobody to blame but themselves. I'd buy an EV-1 tomorrow if they were available.

Ok- I'm buying a replacement 2nd car for my wife, whose 1991 Sunbird is definitely due to get off the road. I'm looking for an efficient, 4 door preferred (has to handle some soccer mom/grocery duty, but not beyond 5 passenger), mostly daily commuter. Our commutes are fairly short - about 10k in each direction (we bike when weather permits). I don't want to break the bank since it's not our primary family vehicle

I'm considering the Yaris, Fit, Civic Hybrid, and Smart Fourtwo. My preference would be to actually go electric, but the market isn't there yet, so this is hopefully the *last* IC engine I buy.

Any feedback from owners of these models? From a price/feature perspective, I'm leaning towards the Yaris 5 door.
 
Fubegra
2008-06-06 11:48:29 AM  
GM had some nice, comfortable, efficient cars that were also reasonably priced - the late-90s/early-00s Saturn S-series. What did they do? They replaced them with a bigger, heavier model with a higher-horsepower engine. Way to go, GM!

FFS, 90 hp will get me from point A to point B at normal traffic speeds just as fast as 140 hp will.
 
Hoopy Frood
2008-06-06 11:56:28 AM  
"Is it the US manufacturers who are stupid? I don't think so," Mr Wagoner said in an interview with the Financial Times.

So he's saying his customers are stupid?
 
Travis McGee
2008-06-06 11:57:12 AM  
unyon: I'm considering the Yaris, Fit, Civic Hybrid, and Smart Fourtwo. My preference would be to actually go electric, but the market isn't there yet, so this is hopefully the *last* IC engine I buy.

Have you read up about any of these models in Consumer Reports or the like? That might help you narrow things down.

Also, be sure to take *extended* test drives (at least a half hour on roads you normally drive) for each model you're interested in, as it might help you unexpectedly fall in love with a single model. Recently, my wife and I were interested in trading her Toyota Matrix in for a Honda Element, because that seemed to offer the exact mix of features we wanted. On a whim, we test drove the Toyota RAV4. We now own a RAV4.

I've heard great things about the Fit and the Civic.
 
BobXXL
2008-06-06 11:57:35 AM  
upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size

30 mpg, 3.8 v6, 3558 lbs.
blogsmithmedia.comView Full Size

29 mpg 3.5 v6 3600 lbs.

So, who's doing it wrong?
 
ancker
2008-06-06 11:58:13 AM  
Who cares? Comparing the US to any other country is stupid. We have our own needs and economy that isn't paralleled anywhere else.

If gas is too expensive, then don't buy any. I'm sick of people biatching about high gas prices while the fill up their SUV to drive ALONE to work.

Ride a bike, take the bus, carpool, take the train.

If that isn't an option for you, then figure something else out. We're smart people. Right?

And quit blaming the Government. Them regulating gas prices is what got us in this mess to begin with.

Prices need to hit $20/gal. That way people simply cannot afford it. We'd start getting better bus routes, more trains, more bikes (less pollution, more exercise), and therefore less demand. The Auto Companies would then struggle and have to build efficient cars to compete, and the decrease in demand on Oil would drive prices down.

You'd think all the hippies would have thought of this instead of planning stupid "Don't buy gas on Tuesday" chain letters and lobbying for a "gas tax holiday."

/ancker
 
Muireadhaigh
2008-06-06 12:09:22 PM  
unyon: GM has nobody to blame but themselves. I'd buy an EV-1 tomorrow if they were available.

Don't buy the Yaris until you drive the Fit. It's a little more expensive and it's hard to get deals on them at the moment, but I've driven both and the Fit is light years ahead. It's surprisingly roomy inside and when you test it, fold the rear seats into the floor. Tons of cargo room.
 
Shostie [TotalFark]
2008-06-06 12:11:30 PM  
TeddyRooseveltsMustache: GM doesn't even make the Aveo, Daewoo does.

GM bought Daewoo in 2001, forming GM Daewoo.
 
wolvernova
2008-06-06 12:11:44 PM  
He's right, but there is a big difference. They build small cars that people want because they're efficient AND reliable. GM makes small shiatty cars. People want their large trucks because they don't care how shiatty they are or how much they consume.
 
You're the jerk... jerk
2008-06-06 12:16:19 PM  
BobXXL: 30 mpg, 3.8 v6, 3558 lbs.

29 mpg 3.5 v6 3600 lbs.

So, who's doing it wrong?

JD Power also gave Buick higher reliability scores than Honda.
 
BobXXL
2008-06-06 12:19:03 PM  
You're the jerk... jerk: BobXXL: 30 mpg, 3.8 v6, 3558 lbs.

29 mpg 3.5 v6 3600 lbs.

So, who's doing it wrong?

JD Power also gave Buick higher reliability scores than Honda.

I own the Buick, my brother owns the Honda.
 
nijika
2008-06-06 12:21:18 PM  
Has anyone pointed out that Honda and Toyota make these tanks nearly exclusively for American buyers because we're the only people stupid enough to buy them en masse?

I'm not saying they don't sell overseas, but have no doubt they're for our stupid market. "Book of Truck" anyone? What douche bag is that marketed towards?

Even Porsche sullied it's heritige with that horrific Cayenne.

My point doesn't even need to be outlined but here it is. While Honda and Toyota dominated all sides of the market for vehicles world wide GM and Ford have been whooping it up in the direction of every "big hat no cattle" cowboy in North America.
 
Geotpf
2008-06-06 12:22:16 PM  
BobXXL: 30 mpg, 3.8 v6, 3558 lbs.

29 mpg 3.5 v6 3600 lbs.

So, who's doing it wrong?

The top car appears to be a 2005 Buick LeSabre, according to the file name, which got 20/29 under the old system, which converts to 18/27 under the new system (they changed the formula for computing mileage for the 2008 model year). The bottom car is a 2008 Honda Accord Coupe, which gets 19/28 under the new system. Next time you pick an example, don't pick something that contradicts your point.

Source: fueleconomy.gov
 
You're the jerk... jerk
2008-06-06 12:25:04 PM  
nijika:

Even Porsche sullied it's heritige with that horrific Cayenneboxster.




FTFY
 
espiaboricua
2008-06-06 12:33:34 PM  
Geotpf: BobXXL: 30 mpg, 3.8 v6, 3558 lbs.

29 mpg 3.5 v6 3600 lbs.

So, who's doing it wrong?

The top car appears to be a 2005 Buick LeSabre, according to the file name, which got 20/29 under the old system, which converts to 18/27 under the new system (they changed the formula for computing mileage for the 2008 model year). The bottom car is a 2008 Honda Accord Coupe, which gets 19/28 under the new system. Next time you pick an example, don't pick something that contradicts your point.

O'RLY?

i2.photobucket.comView Full Size


The Proper Way™ to use FuelEconomy.gov is to look at both the EPA Estimates and the MPG Estimates from the drivers.

You Fail™ at both Reading AND Reading Comprehension... plus an additional Fail™ for picking-and-choosing your data.
 
TeddyRooseveltsMustache
2008-06-06 12:37:13 PM  
ancker: Who cares? Comparing the US to any other country is stupid. We have our own needs and economy that isn't paralleled anywhere else.

Wrong, the U.S. can be compared to Canada, the United Kingdom, Australia, really anywhere that English is spoken. The U.S. economy IS part of the world economy. A failure is you.

If gas is too expensive, then don't buy any. I'm sick of people biatching about high gas prices while the fill up their SUV to drive ALONE to work.

It's not just SUV drivers who suffer, idiot. It's everyone who has to drive no matter what size their car is.

Ride a bike, take the bus, carpool, take the train.

Right, because everyone lives close enough to work to ride a bike there. Oh, and every town in America has train service don't they? Oh wait, you're wrong again.

If that isn't an option for you, then figure something else out. We're smart people. Right?

And quit blaming the Government. Them regulating gas prices is what got us in this mess to begin with.

Then why shouldn't we blame them? Your argument skills are lacking.

Prices need to hit $20/gal. That way people simply cannot afford it. We'd start getting better bus routes, more trains, more bikes (less pollution, more exercise), and therefore less demand. The Auto Companies would then struggle and have to build efficient cars to compete, and the decrease in demand on Oil would drive prices down.

I like that you're thinking but you're still wrong. So many people would be out of a job your little plan would just make the economy worse, you fail again.

You'd think all the hippies would have thought of this instead of planning stupid "Don't buy gas on Tuesday" chain letters and lobbying for a "gas tax holiday."

/ancker



You sir are a total idiot. At least the Democrats have a plan to improve things, the Republican nominee just wants to keep driving the country deeper into the ground until it inevitably divides itself into smaller countries, and then the whole of North America will be thrown into chaos, maybe even the world. I would call you an evil genius, but everything you've said negates the "genius" part. That being said, I'm sorry you're stupid.
 
TeddyRooseveltsMustache
2008-06-06 12:39:33 PM  
Shostie: TeddyRooseveltsMustache: GM doesn't even make the Aveo, Daewoo does.

GM bought Daewoo in 2001, forming GM Daewoo.

True, but the Daewoo Aveo doesn't share any components with other GM vehicles other than itself, so it's really a Korean car.
 
Geotpf
2008-06-06 12:42:25 PM  
espiaboricua: Geotpf: BobXXL: 30 mpg, 3.8 v6, 3558 lbs.

29 mpg 3.5 v6 3600 lbs.

So, who's doing it wrong?

The top car appears to be a 2005 Buick LeSabre, according to the file name, which got 20/29 under the old system, which converts to 18/27 under the new system (they changed the formula for computing mileage for the 2008 model year). The bottom car is a 2008 Honda Accord Coupe, which gets 19/28 under the new system. Next time you pick an example, don't pick something that contradicts your point.

O'RLY?

The Proper Way™ to use FuelEconomy.gov is to look at both the EPA Estimates and the MPG Estimates from the drivers.

You Fail™ at both Reading AND Reading Comprehension... plus an additional Fail™ for picking-and-choosing your data.

His example was the V6 version of the Honda Accord; your screenshot shows the 4 cylinder. I used the V6 numbers like he did. Plus, the "MPG Estimates from Drivers Like You" bit is inputted by random members of the public-in your screenshot, 4 vehicles for the Buick and 2 for the Accord-not nearly enough data to be statstically significant. The EPA tests are run on the exact same course for all vehicles and therefore are a better comparison between vehicles.
 
palexc
2008-06-06 12:51:38 PM  
Honda came of age in America during the 70's energy crisis by introducing the Civic. What's disturbing is that American car companies learned NOTHING from that. (It's not rocket science either: fuel goes up, introduce cheaper, more efficient cars.)

From Civic on Wikipedia: (emphasis mine)



The Civic's features allowed it to outperform American competitors such as the Chevrolet Vega and Ford Pinto. When the 1973 oil crisis struck, many Americans turned to economy cars. Reviews of American economy car quality were poor and getting worse due to spiraling costs for manufacturers. Japanese culture had a long-standing tradition of demanding high-quality economy cars, and the growing American desire in the 1970s for well-made cars that had good fuel mileage benefited the standing of Honda, Toyota, and Datsun in the lucrative U.S. market.[citation needed]


Sound familiar?!
 
Tourney3p0
2008-06-06 12:52:32 PM  
Not that it's any defense to his decision to keep building SUV's, but he does have a point. It's always "GM aind their Ess Yoo Vee's!" on Fark. Nobody ever discusses the 13 mpg Land Cruiser or the 20 mpg Highlander for the especially environmentally conscious yuppie.
 
palexc
2008-06-06 12:53:49 PM  
ancker: If gas is too expensive, then don't buy any. I'm sick of people biatching about high gas prices while the fill up their SUV to drive ALONE to work.

Ride a bike, take the bus, carpool, take the train.

The problem is, our transportation infrastructure was built around cheap gas, not efficient, reliable, public transportation. It was a deal forged by the auto companies and the government after WWII, and even though we should've learned our lesson in the 70's, we're continuing to struggle with it today.

Simply put: it has to change.
 
palexc
2008-06-06 12:56:19 PM  
Tourney3p0: Nobody ever discusses the 13 mpg Land Cruiser or the 20 mpg Highlander for the especially environmentally conscious yuppie.

Toyota and Honda offer better (and more) economy car alternatives than GM does though. Their bread and butter aren't gas guzzlers, though Toyota was able to build a better product (Tundra) for Ford's customers than Ford, and make a killing on it.
 
oldfarthenry [TotalFark]
2008-06-06 12:58:05 PM  
I'm surprised the auto industry isn't re-introducing the small 4 cylinder pick-up - for the enviro-friendly consumer who still wants to maintain his redneck image.

/had a little Nissan p/u yeeeeaaaaaarrrs ago
 
Tourney3p0
2008-06-06 12:59:19 PM  
palexc:

Toyota and Honda offer better (and more) economy car alternatives than GM does though. Their bread and butter aren't gas guzzlers, though Toyota was able to build a better product (Tundra) for Ford's customers than Ford, and make a killing on it.

So we go on to his next point. It's not his fault consumers are stupid. They built what American idiots demanded. When Toyota and Honda realized they weren't getting a piece of the pie, they made sure to loudly announce they could and would build big hulking behemoths as well.

Just because GM sold more of them doesn't make it any less hypocritical.
 
kpottruff
2008-06-06 1:02:09 PM  
TeddyRooseveltsMustache: Shostie: TeddyRooseveltsMustache: GM doesn't even make the Aveo, Daewoo does.

GM bought Daewoo in 2001, forming GM Daewoo.

True, but the Daewoo Aveo doesn't share any components with other GM vehicles other than itself, so it's really a Korean car.

And the G6, Cobalt, Malibu etc share no components with a Sierra or Tahoe. By your logic that means that the aformentioned cars aren't GM products either.

Why do people line up to smash companies like GM when they are putting vehicles out there that fit into the same general category as the almighty Civic or Corrola? To be blunt the reason that most people hate domestic vehicles is that they have had it beaten into their brains that they are supposed to.

It really is unfortunate that there wasn't a way to have a 'blind drive' test similar to 'blind tasting' to show how many people would actually buy a domestic car, given that every auto maker has unique styling that would more often than not give away who made them.
 
some_wild-eyed_8-foot_tall_maniac
2008-06-06 1:08:19 PM  
oldfarthenry: I'm surprised the auto industry isn't re-introducing the small 4 cylinder pick-up - for the enviro-friendly consumer who still wants to maintain his redneck image.

/had a little Nissan p/u yeeeeaaaaaarrrs ago

Subaru BRAT FTW?
 
oldfarthenry [TotalFark]
2008-06-06 1:08:43 PM  
kpottruff: To be blunt the reason that most people hate domestic vehicles is that they have had it beaten into their brains that they are supposed to.

That - and watching some union employees constantly biatching that society owes them jobs at $35/hr - management biatching about the unions and pesky health care coverage - marketers biatching that buying anything other than their over-sized products is a slap in the face of 'merikah...
 
Blake Austin
2008-06-06 1:11:35 PM  
I got rid of my SUV, a Chevy TrailBlazer, back in the summer of 2004, because I thought gas was getting too expensive.

Price of gas was around $1.85. then.

$1.85, I said.
 
You're the jerk... jerk
2008-06-06 1:15:15 PM  
kpottruff: TeddyRooseveltsMustache: Shostie: TeddyRooseveltsMustache: GM doesn't even make the Aveo, Daewoo does.

GM bought Daewoo in 2001, forming GM Daewoo.

True, but the Daewoo Aveo doesn't share any components with other GM vehicles other than itself, so it's really a Korean car.

And the G6, Cobalt, Malibu etc share no components with a Sierra or Tahoe. By your logic that means that the aformentioned cars aren't GM products either.

Why do people line up to smash companies like GM when they are putting vehicles out there that fit into the same general category as the almighty Civic or Corrola? To be blunt the reason that most people hate domestic vehicles is that they have had it beaten into their brains that they are supposed to.

It really is unfortunate that there wasn't a way to have a 'blind drive' test similar to 'blind tasting' to show how many people would actually buy a domestic car, given that every auto maker has unique styling that would more often than not give away who made them.

Go out and ask people what vehicles are the most reliable, what vehicles they are least likely to have problems with. Compare those results with JD Power numbers from actual drivers. I would guess there wouldn't be much over lap.

Even worse, people who buy domestic cars do so with the idea that they suck so they complain about every problem. They also think everything is the manufacturers fault. My neighbor decided to change her own oil, drained it all out forgot to replace the drain cap. Soon all of the oil was out of the car and the it tore the engine up. Who did she blame? Chrysler, for making an engine that needs oil to run.

People who buy foreign cars, assume they are the anomaly and rarely talk about it. We all know somebody who owns a 20 year old toyota (I still had one until a few years ago) and are impressed by it. But that shouldn't buy them a life time pass on quality.

American cars have sucked in the past, and they are far from perfect now. But people cannot get over their perceptions.
 
BobXXL
2008-06-06 1:20:42 PM  
Geotpf: BobXXL: 30 mpg, 3.8 v6, 3558 lbs.

29 mpg 3.5 v6 3600 lbs.

So, who's doing it wrong?

The top car appears to be a 2005 Buick LeSabre, according to the file name, which got 20/29 under the old system, which converts to 18/27 under the new system (they changed the formula for computing mileage for the 2008 model year). The bottom car is a 2008 Honda Accord Coupe, which gets 19/28 under the new system. Next time you pick an example, don't pick something that contradicts your point.

Source: fueleconomy.gov

I own the car and consistently get 30mpg hwy.
 
Geotpf
2008-06-06 1:21:05 PM  
Tourney3p0: Not that it's any defense to his decision to keep building SUV's, but he does have a point. It's always "GM aind their Ess Yoo Vee's!" on Fark. Nobody ever discusses the 13 mpg Land Cruiser or the 20 mpg Highlander for the especially environmentally conscious yuppie.

Compare the percentage of total Toyota sales in the US that is made up of huge SUVs and pickups vs. the same percentage for GM. The Land Cruiser is a specialty model that sells a few hundred units a month domestically. Toyota sold 14k Yarises, 52k Corollas, 51k Camrys, and 15K Priuses last month-and 473 Land Cruisers.
 
JaMorg
2008-06-06 1:21:07 PM  
oldfarthenry: kpottruff: To be blunt the reason that most people hate domestic vehicles is that they have had it beaten into their brains that they are supposed to.

That - and watching some union employees constantly biatching that society owes them jobs at $35/hr - management biatching about the unions and pesky health care coverage - marketers biatching that buying anything other than their over-sized products is a slap in the face of 'merikah...


The marketing angle is moronic. Your company makes a 50% gross margin on every one of produt X you sell. you only make a 20% gross margin on every one of product Y your company sells. How would you allocate your marketing budget?

To the poster about the EV1...would you buy your EV1 if it were available? it would have only been a $90,000 MSRP for a sedan.
 
jake3988 [OhFark]
2008-06-06 1:24:42 PM  
The top 10 most fuel efficient cars sold the U.S. are all foreign.

There's a reason for that. Our oil prices have been so low no one has been willing to develop them.

The technology has been there for ages (which is why there's going to be a slew of very fuel efficient cars coming out soon) but no has has been willing to develop it because it wouldn't have been worth it here.
 
Geotpf
2008-06-06 1:28:12 PM  
BobXXL: I own the car and consistently get 30mpg hwy.

Probably, if somebody owned the Accord and drove the same exact route as you do, in the same exact manner, he would get slightly better mileage.

In any case, Honda makes a 4 cylinder version of the Accord (with even better mileage) but GM didn't make a 4 cylinder version of your vehicle.
 
debug
2008-06-06 1:28:46 PM  
Personally, I prefer foreign cars because they have better design and ergonomics. Have you looked at the interior of an "American" car lately?

That said, I LOVED my 94 wrangler. That was a great vehicle
 
ski_adk115
2008-06-06 1:30:15 PM  
The reason I hate domestic vehicles is because every single one that I've had turned into a piece of shiat at 100,000 miles. My '01 Civic is up to 120,000 now and still hasn't needed anything more than replaced fluids, filters, brakes and tires. I think the most major thing it needs right now are new belts.

And I don't feel one bit sad for domestic vehicle producers. They killed their own image in regards to reliability, efficiency and performance. I mean, how often do you hear about major American car recalls, but rarely hear about major "import" recalls (added quotes just b/c a lot of import brands are actually made on US soil nowadays)?

American car companies stopped innovating and they're paying for it. Someone call the wambulance.
 
Rapmaster2000
2008-06-06 1:32:50 PM  
You're the jerk... jerk: nijika:

Even Porsche sullied it's heritige with that horrific Cayenneboxster.

FTFY

What's wrong with the Boxster? It pretty much fits in with the lineage of the Speedster or the 944, and it's far better than the 924 or the 914.
 
Geotpf
2008-06-06 1:35:01 PM  
jake3988: The top 10 most fuel efficient cars sold the U.S. are all foreign.

There's a reason for that. Our oil prices have been so low no one has been willing to develop them.

The technology has been there for ages (which is why there's going to be a slew of very fuel efficient cars coming out soon) but no has has been willing to develop it because it wouldn't have been worth it here.

Yup, this is definitely part of the reason. Fuel taxes are higher overseas, so overseas makers have more practice making vehicles with high MPG. Plus, many other countries tax vehicles on engine size, which is an additional added incentive to buy a vehicle with a smaller, more fuel efficient engine, and for foreign automakers to have practice building such. The US does not-in fact, it gives tax breaks on certain huge vehicles. Businesses can write off the part (used to be all) of a vehicle than weighs more than 6500 pounds. The logic was for a farmer to be able to write off a large pickup he needed, or a garbage service to be able to write off a garbage truck, or Greyhound to write off their busses, but the domestic companies (and some foreign ones) built SUVs big enough to qualify, so an accountant would be able to buy a H2 for basically free, due to the tax write off.
 
Thray
2008-06-06 1:52:41 PM  
Making SUVs at all is fine.

Letting yourself become a joke in other market segments because all you particularly cared about were SUVs, not so much.
 
Geotpf
2008-06-06 2:05:32 PM  
Thray: Making SUVs at all is fine.

Letting yourself become a joke in other market segments because all you particularly cared about were SUVs, not so much.

Exactly.
 
Tourney3p0
2008-06-06 2:07:12 PM  
Geotpf:
Compare the percentage of total Toyota sales in the US that is made up of huge SUVs and pickups vs. the same percentage for GM. The Land Cruiser is a specialty model that sells a few hundred units a month domestically. Toyota sold 14k Yarises, 52k Corollas, 51k Camrys, and 15K Priuses last month-and 473 Land Cruisers.

Why does that matter? Do you think Toyota had a quota set up so that only the first few thousand could buy? You can bet your ass they'd sell 500 thousand more of them a year if they could. But they couldn't while GM could and did. Why give Toyota a free pass?
 
jbernie
2008-06-06 2:08:37 PM  
You're the jerk... jerk: American cars have sucked in the past, and they are far from perfect now. But people cannot get over their perceptions.

And that is why people buy Mercedes when Hyundi seems to be rating higher on the JD Power IQS. Or at least they were last year.

GM brands are rating very close to the Japanese competition, some a bit higher some a bit lower, at the current time the issue is the perception people have, and that does not reflect reality.

Hell froze over for the Japanese only crowd when the current Malibu arrived, the car magazines are alternating between the Camry, Accord & malibu as to which one ranks #1, it would be one thing for the Malibu to be considered close to the other two, but actually beating them is the shocker.

Now if only the American public were willing to stop drinking the kool aid and test the Malibu they might reconsider their choices.
 
WhyteRaven74
2008-06-06 2:12:05 PM  
ancker: Prices need to hit $20/gal.

Great idea, let's hurt the less well off really bad and thrash the economy *facepalm*
 
JaMorg
2008-06-06 2:13:27 PM  
ski_adk115: The reason I hate domestic vehicles is because every single one that I've had turned into a piece of shiat at 100,000 miles. My '01 Civic is up to 120,000 now and still hasn't needed anything more than replaced fluids, filters, brakes and tires. I think the most major thing it needs right now are new belts.

And I don't feel one bit sad for domestic vehicle producers. They killed their own image in regards to reliability, efficiency and performance. I mean, how often do you hear about major American car recalls, but rarely hear about major "import" recalls (added quotes just b/c a lot of import brands are actually made on US soil nowadays)?

American car companies stopped innovating and they're paying for it. Someone call the wambulance.


I don't know, I am in the auto business and hear about Toyota - Honda recalls much more frequently lately than domestic. Here is a hint: foreign recalls rarely make non-industry news.

I also know since I own a foreign car (Euro, I really dislike the materials the Japanese manufacturer's use in their interiors) that the will usually fix a recall without ever really telling you about it unless you look at the line items on your service statements (non-critical recalls)

On the domestic side you hear about every recall, even the non-critical ones, because GM, at least, outsources their warranty administration instead of having it all in house like Toyota, BMW, MB. Therefore the more warranty bills this company processes the more they get paid by GM or can argue for in contract renegotiation. They send out ALL recall notices because it means dollars for them whenever you take your car in on a warranty claim.

/the more you know.
 
Rapmaster2000
2008-06-06 2:15:38 PM  
jbernie:

Now if only the American public were willing to stop drinking the kool aid and test the Malibu they might reconsider their choices.

According to Jalopnik sources dealers are claiming that they can't get enough Malibus. Word has gotten around that it's a very good car. Perhaps the best American car in years.

I rented a Saturn Aura last February for a week and I was very impressed. GM has definitely upped the quality. Ford and Chrysler are still languishing.
 
You're the jerk... jerk
2008-06-06 2:17:17 PM  
jbernie: You're the jerk... jerk: American cars have sucked in the past, and they are far from perfect now. But people cannot get over their perceptions.

And that is why people buy Mercedes when Hyundi seems to be rating higher on the JD Power IQS. Or at least they were last year.

GM brands are rating very close to the Japanese competition, some a bit higher some a bit lower, at the current time the issue is the perception people have, and that does not reflect reality.

Hell froze over for the Japanese only crowd when the current Malibu arrived, the car magazines are alternating between the Camry, Accord & malibu as to which one ranks #1, it would be one thing for the Malibu to be considered close to the other two, but actually beating them is the shocker.

Now if only the American public were willing to stop drinking the kool aid and test the Malibu they might reconsider their choices.

I would say the Hyundai and the Mercedes cater to different people.

But the rest of what you say is pretty much spot on.
 
Thray
2008-06-06 2:28:07 PM  
jbernie: And that is why people buy Mercedes when Hyundi seems to be rating higher on the JD Power IQS. Or at least they were last year.

GM brands are rating very close to the Japanese competition, some a bit higher some a bit lower, at the current time the issue is the perception people have, and that does not reflect reality.

Hell froze over for the Japanese only crowd when the current Malibu arrived, the car magazines are alternating between the Camry, Accord & malibu as to which one ranks #1, it would be one thing for the Malibu to be considered close to the other two, but actually beating them is the shocker.

Now if only the American public were willing to stop drinking the kool aid and test the Malibu they might reconsider their choices.

Well, that's encouraging optimism (I haven't been in the market for a new car in a while so can't really engage on the point). Regardless, I think GM is going to have to work pretty hard to get rid of the tarnish on their rep; it languished for a while.
 
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