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(Wall Street Journal)   Not news: Someone's accusing Obama of being a Muslim. Fark: Someone writing an editorial for The New York Times, that is   (online.wsj.com) divider line
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2067 clicks; posted to Politics » and Main » on 16 May 2008 at 6:59 PM (14 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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stevecody
2008-05-16 5:00:28 PM  
Not news: Someone's accusing Obama of being a Muslim. News: Someone writing an editorial for The New York Times, that is. Fark: It's that Neaderthal right-winger Bob Herbert


and the Wall Street Journal (a subsidiary of FOX news) spreads it like fertilizer.
 
Broz_Tito
2008-05-16 5:29:33 PM  
accusing Obama of being a Muslim

You should make it illegal to be a Muslim already.
 
SilentStrider
2008-05-16 7:00:36 PM  
someone needs to seriously find themselves out of a farking job.
 
mcoctopus
2008-05-16 7:03:26 PM  
Wouldnt it be wonderful if he blew himself up at DNC convention? :))
 
SeismicJizzer
2008-05-16 7:06:04 PM  
this guy is an idiot scrolling down...


Note what is absent from the speech: any reference to Barack Obama, to any other Democrat or to the Democratic Party.

no dumbass he was talking about the whig party of 1833
 
RussianPooper
2008-05-16 7:07:48 PM  
So, because the ancient rules of a desert death cult say that you are something whether you like it or not, we must abide by them. Ignore the fact that we all think it's bullshiat anyway.
 
milk_plus
2008-05-16 7:08:11 PM  
And how am I not supposed to feel elitist after things like this?
 
PascalsGhost
2008-05-16 7:10:33 PM  
You realize that everything he says about Muslims and apostasy is totally false, right?
 
moops
2008-05-16 7:11:48 PM  
McCain's a Jew.
 
Thrag
2008-05-16 7:14:12 PM  
moops: McCain's a Jew.

That's complete bullshiat. Everyone knows he's a closet Rastafarian.
 
Farkin'round
2008-05-16 7:15:10 PM  
Someone at the WSJ is on the Hildabeast's payroll.
 
Marla Singer's Laundry
2008-05-16 7:15:32 PM  
moops: McCain's a Jew.

Thrag: moops: McCain's a Jew.

That's complete bullshiat. Everyone knows he's a closet Rastafarian.

He believes in Vol.
 
Mastervader
2008-05-16 7:16:40 PM  
So, he's a closet muslim with a crazy christian pastor who is the most liberal senator according to republicans.

Next you'll tell me he fathered black children.
 
Running a-puck
2008-05-16 7:17:47 PM  
Marla Singer's Laundry:
He believes in Vol.

*chuckle* Now that I could see.
 
JuicenX
2008-05-16 7:19:32 PM  
When Obama becomes president he should exile this fool.
 
Omorda
2008-05-16 7:21:15 PM  
Thrag: moops: McCain's a Jew.

That's complete bullshiat. Everyone knows he's a closet Rastafarian.

no no. McCain is a deatheater.
 
DarnoKonrad
2008-05-16 7:24:16 PM  
If you do not ever forward anything else, please forward this to all your contacts...this is very scary to think of what lies ahead of us here in our own United States...better heed this and pray about it and share it.

Who is John McCain?

Probable U. S. presidential candidate, John Hussein McCain was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, to John Hussein McCain, Sr., a black MUSLIM from Nyangoma-Kogel, Kenya and Ann Dunham, a white ATHEIST from Wichita, Kansas. McCain's parents met at the University of Hawaii.

When McCain was two years old, his parents divorced. His father returned to Kenya . His

mother then married Lolo Soetoro, a RADICAL Muslim from Indonesia. When McCain was 6 years old, the family relocated to Indonesia . McCain attended a MUSLIM school in Jakarta . He also spent two years in a Catholic school.

McCain takes great care to conceal the fact that he is a Muslim. He is quick to point out that, "He was once a Muslim, but that he also attended Catholic school." McCain's political handlers are attempting to make it appear that he is not a radical.

McCain's introduction to Islam came via his father, and this influence was temporary at best. In reality, the senior McCain returned to Kenya soon after the divorce, and never again had any direct influence over his son's education.

Lolo Soetoro, the second husband of McCain's mother, Ann Dunham, introduced his stepson to Islam. McCain was enrolled in a Wahabi school in Jakarta. Wahabism is the RADICAL teaching that is followed by the Muslim terrorists who are now waging Jihad against the western world. Since it is politically expedient to be a CHRISTIAN when seeking major public office in the United States, John Hussein McCain has joined the United Church of Christ in an attempt to downplay his Muslim background. ALSO, keep in mind that when he was sworn into office he DID NOT use the Holy Bible, but instead the Koran.

John Hussein McCain will NOT recite the Pledge of Allegiance nor will he show any reverence for our flag. While others place their hands over their hearts, McCain turns his back to the flag and slouches.

Let us all remain alert concerning McCain's expected presidential candidacy.

The Muslims have said they plan on destroying the US from the inside out, what better way to start than at the highest level - through the President of the United States , one of their own!!!!
 
James Brown
2008-05-16 7:25:41 PM  
the liberal media is at it again, i see
 
rjShadow
2008-05-16 7:31:06 PM  
DarnoKonrad: The Muslims have said they plan on destroying the US from the inside out, what better way to start than at the highest level - through the President of the United States , one of their own!!!!

But, if there weren't assholes like you on the internets, there would not be the delicious conflict that keeps me coming back day after day after day to read the types of responses that keeps the normal sane intelligent people in check.

/I can has cognitive dissonance?
 
Suicidal Writer
2008-05-16 7:31:16 PM  
Why backward people stay backward (new window)
 
Running a-puck
2008-05-16 7:34:07 PM  
funmonger: Wait... Vol was the planet featured in some loonie's pulp sci-fi novels that attracted an even loonier cult following that became a literal cult, revolving around a ceremony that was a perverted version of the ritual in Amok Time, right?

I was going after the cult in Eberron that worships and wants to become undead.
 
Sum Dum Gai
2008-05-16 7:37:10 PM  
Don't worry, as soon as he dies we'll baptize him a Mormon and it'll be all good.
 
bartink
2008-05-16 7:37:31 PM  
Under Muslim law someone that has rejected the religion is still a Muslim? What a crock of shiat.
 
Leishu
2008-05-16 7:40:08 PM  
Wow... that was a lot of childish drivel for a newspaper that's supposed to be, for lack of a better term, professional.
 
video man
2008-05-16 7:41:21 PM  
Being a super secular Muslim, I am getting a kick out of these replies.

I am really, really sick of Muslim being thrown around like an insult. Same with socialist, and liberal.

/HA HA DISREGARD THAT! I BURN YOUR FLAG AND RAPE YOUR KIDS!
 
HealingAmerica
2008-05-16 7:42:17 PM  
I am surprised he hasn't been asked if he has been circumcised or not.
What about his daughters?

American people deserve answers to this crucial questions.
 
Gish21
2008-05-16 7:43:29 PM  
PascalsGhost: You realize that everything he says about Muslims and apostasy is totally false, right?

No, it's not. The penalty for apostasy in Islam is death. There is no way for a Muslim to leave Islam under their law short of the grave, and in most Muslim countries it is enforced. Even in 'liberal' Muslim countries like in Malaysia, you get thrown in prison if you try to leave Islam.

Anyway, most likely Obama is a secret atheist, not a secret Muslim. Of course, being an atheist is probably the religious stance that makes you most unelectable.
 
homerdrew415
2008-05-16 7:44:40 PM  
If you didn't read TFA,

#1 Herbert didn't write the article regarding the Islamic world's view of him as an Apostate. This guy (new window) did.

#2 As much as my dad wants to believe that Obama is a Muslim Manchurian candidate, it's highly unlikely. As most children from Divorced parents can attest, it's more likely that He rejected anything his runaway dad might have believed, and his step father probably wouldn't sway him much either. He's probably just what he is. A Christian who goes to a weird church that he doesn't much believe in anyways.

As much as I fear him being a Christian, I do realize that he's pretty cool (smokes cigarettes, wants to decriminalize pot and sick the DEA on Methlabs and Methheads, hoops it up, has a brother-in-law who's sole job is to beat the Nike University Oregon Ducks twice a year, plays poker, and loved The Wire). I however won't be voting for him this fall.

/Live in California so my electoral votes will go to him anyways
//Voting for Nader as a quasi conservative, on the hope that he can get federal cash and motivates people and candidates to stop believing in a strict D & R system.
///More voices in the political process the better.
 
Uzzah
2008-05-16 7:46:53 PM  
moops: McCain's a Jew.

Let's see: according to Jewish doctrine, if your mother was a Jew, you are a Jew. As a self-professed Christian, McCain effectively accepts the representations in the Bible as true. The Bible says we are all descended from Eve. Eve must necessarily have been a Jew. Therefore, McCain is a Jew.

/makes as much sense as the editorial
 
Sum Dum Gai
2008-05-16 7:49:22 PM  
bartink
Under Muslim law someone that has rejected the religion is still a Muslim?

Technically that's the same under many Christian teachings; if you're Baptized into the church, you're a Christian permanently. For example if you renounce the Catholic faith and join another, you'd only need to undergo Reconciliation to rejoin the Catholic church, you don't get re-Baptized or re-Confirmed; in their eyes you were always a member, just one who turned your back on the church to live in sin for a while.

'Course in the Christian tradition, you just burn in hell for all eternity, you don't get executed for apostasy anymore.
 
homerdrew415
2008-05-16 7:50:32 PM  
funmonger: homerdrew415: (smokes cigarettes, wants to decriminalize pot and sick the DEA on Methlabs and Methheads, hoops it up, has a brother-in-law who's sole job is to beat the Nike University Oregon Ducks twice a year, plays poker, and loved The Wire).

I liked him before, but had no idea HE WAS THIS COOL.

Just like Clinton, I'd love to BBQ with the guy, watch sports, pick up chicks watch them pick up women who would look right past me while I had to hit on their less attractive drunker friends with great personality.

/Not going to vote D or R ever again....
//Think the Greens are nothing but Commie hippie nutjobs, but damn it they have the right idea in telling their parent party to go fark themselves.
 
PascalsGhost
2008-05-16 7:52:30 PM  
Gish21: PascalsGhost: You realize that everything he says about Muslims and apostasy is totally false, right?

No, it's not. The penalty for apostasy in Islam is death. There is no way for a Muslim to leave Islam under their law short of the grave, and in most Muslim countries it is enforced. Even in 'liberal' Muslim countries like in Malaysia, you get thrown in prison if you try to leave Islam.


Yes, it is. Moderate Muslims no more demand death ofr changing faith than Christians. He is refering to hard liners (of whcih there are many) however:

For one, a person has to reject Islam as an adult to be considered an apostate. Also, since we are going by Islamic law, when the father deserts the family, as Obama's did, the law dictates the mothers religion ocntrols the children. Also, Obama's father was an atheist, so he would be the apostate. I could go on if you'd like. Frankly, this is a blatant retarded hit piece simply because the author of it is a very intelligent man who I am sure knows better than the bullshiat he is spouting.

"As the son of the Muslim father, Senator Obama was born a Muslim under Muslim law as it is universally understood. It makes no difference that, as Senator Obama has written, his father said he renounced his religion. Likewise, under Muslim law based on the Koran his mother's Christian background is irrelevant."

this whole paragraph is totally false.
 
video man
2008-05-16 7:55:00 PM  
Can I has fringe party thread?

BRIAN P. MOORE 08'!
 
Ryan2065
2008-05-16 7:57:05 PM  
PascalsGhost: Yes, it is. Moderate Muslims no more demand death ofr changing faith than Christians. He is refering to hard liners (of whcih there are many) however:

For one, a person has to reject Islam as an adult to be considered an apostate. Also, since we are going by Islamic law, when the father deserts the family, as Obama's did, the law dictates the mothers religion ocntrols the children. Also, Obama's father was an atheist, so he would be the apostate. I could go on if you'd like. Frankly, this is a blatant retarded hit piece simply because the author of it is a very intelligent man who I am sure knows better than the bullshiat he is spouting.

"As the son of the Muslim father, Senator Obama was born a Muslim under Muslim law as it is universally understood. It makes no difference that, as Senator Obama has written, his father said he renounced his religion. Likewise, under Muslim law based on the Koran his mother's Christian background is irrelevant."

this whole paragraph is totally false.

What do you base this on? Reality? Facts? I'll have none of it!
 
homerdrew415
2008-05-16 7:58:19 PM  
it's not so much fringe party stuff, it's more that if the Green's get 5% and get their federal $, people like me or other disgruntled middle of the road people would push for a 4th party that would be between the D's and R's politically.

/Imagine if you could vote for someone you agreed with politically instead of fighting down the vomit when it's time to vote...
 
Wareq
2008-05-16 7:58:39 PM  
All right!
It's been way too long since I had the chance to do this...
[image from content.answers.com too old to be available]
DESTROY US ALL!!!
 
robsul82
2008-05-16 7:59:01 PM  
It's true that Bush did not mention Obama by name in that speech, and it's also true that it's terribly elitist to use a high-falutin' college education to "read between the lines" or "infer" something.
 
homerdrew415
2008-05-16 8:03:29 PM  
As much as I don't actually want him as a president, Nader has at least stuck to his principles and never lied about a position to make people want to vote for him. I respect things called principles and truthfulness and most candidates tend to forget about them when they run.

/Great saying: "Anyone who seeks the office of the presidency isn't fit for the position"
//Probably butchering it but who cares.
 
PascalsGhost
2008-05-16 8:06:51 PM  
Ryan2065: PascalsGhost: Yes, it is. Moderate Muslims no more demand death ofr changing faith than Christians. He is refering to hard liners (of whcih there are many) however:

For one, a person has to reject Islam as an adult to be considered an apostate. Also, since we are going by Islamic law, when the father deserts the family, as Obama's did, the law dictates the mothers religion ocntrols the children. Also, Obama's father was an atheist, so he would be the apostate. I could go on if you'd like. Frankly, this is a blatant retarded hit piece simply because the author of it is a very intelligent man who I am sure knows better than the bullshiat he is spouting.

"As the son of the Muslim father, Senator Obama was born a Muslim under Muslim law as it is universally understood. It makes no difference that, as Senator Obama has written, his father said he renounced his religion. Likewise, under Muslim law based on the Koran his mother's Christian background is irrelevant."

this whole paragraph is totally false.

What do you base this on? Reality? Facts? I'll have none of it!

You realize we laugh at it, but it is the way many, if not most, Americans feel about reality they don't agree with, right?
 
Gish21
2008-05-16 8:09:04 PM  
PascalsGhost:
Yes, it is. Moderate Muslims no more demand death ofr changing faith than Christians. He is refering to hard liners (of whcih there are many) however:


The penalty for apostasy is spelled out clearly in the Koran, and that penalty is death. The 'liberals' in Islam are the ones such as in Malaysia, where apostasy is classified by the state as a mental disorder (cause who would ever want to leave Islam?) and as such apostasy is impossible, and they are imprisoned until their mental health improves. Muslim countries where the law doesn't punish people trying to leave Islam consist basically of Turkey, where the military enforces secularism.

The apostasy equals death rule is not considered an extreme position in most Muslim countries. Just go to any Muslim country in the world, stand on a street corner with a megaphone, and verbally and thoroughly renounce Islam. I'll be taking bets on whether the police will arrive to arrest you before the mob kills you.
 
NYZooMan
2008-05-16 8:10:50 PM  
So, it's more like "born a Jew, always a Jew"?
 
NYZooMan
2008-05-16 8:13:47 PM  
bartink: Under Muslim law someone that has rejected the religion is still a Muslim? What a crock of shiat.

Well, if they had confidence in individual self-determination and control they wouldn't require women to cover and hide themselves in order for men to resist raping them on the streets.
 
Two Cats One Bowl
2008-05-16 8:14:15 PM  
People stupid enough to spout "Obama is a Muslim" line needs to be deported immediately.

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
 
PascalsGhost
2008-05-16 8:15:09 PM  
Gish21: PascalsGhost:
Yes, it is. Moderate Muslims no more demand death ofr changing faith than Christians. He is refering to hard liners (of whcih there are many) however:


The penalty for apostasy is spelled out clearly in the Koran, and that penalty is death.

Which has no being on anybody but extremists. Same with the bible. If Christians followed biblical law, blood would be flowing int he streets.


The 'liberals' in Islam are the ones such as in Malaysia, where apostasy is classified by the state as a mental disorder (cause who would ever want to leave Islam?) and as such apostasy is impossible, and they are imprisoned until their mental health improves.

Malaysia is not a liberal or moderate Muslim state by any metric.

Muslim countries where the law doesn't punish people trying to leave Islam consist basically of Turkey, where the military enforces secularism.

Bullshiat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country

The apostasy equals death rule is not considered an extreme position in most Muslim countries. Just go to any FUNDY Muslim country in the world, stand on a street corner with a megaphone, and verbally and thoroughly renounce Islam. I'll be taking bets on whether the police will arrive to arrest you before the mob kills you.


FTFY.


The vast majority of Muslims in the world will not give two shiats if you leave their faith. I am sorry, but you cite extreme examples. There are a great many fundamentalist Muslims, but they are just that: Fundamentalists.
 
bartink
2008-05-16 8:18:59 PM  
NYZooMan: bartink: Under Muslim law someone that has rejected the religion is still a Muslim? What a crock of shiat.

Well, if they had confidence in individual self-determination and control they wouldn't require women to cover and hide themselves in order for men to resist raping them on the streets.

And if Christians had the same, we wouldn't have invaded Iraq. It is their country after all.
 
beoswulf
2008-05-16 8:19:39 PM  
PascalsGhost: Gish21: PascalsGhost: You realize that everything he says about Muslims and apostasy is totally false, right?

No, it's not. The penalty for apostasy in Islam is death. There is no way for a Muslim to leave Islam under their law short of the grave, and in most Muslim countries it is enforced. Even in 'liberal' Muslim countries like in Malaysia, you get thrown in prison if you try to leave Islam.


Yes, it is. Moderate Muslims no more demand death ofr changing faith than Christians. He is refering to hard liners (of whcih there are many) however:

For one, a person has to reject Islam as an adult to be considered an apostate. Also, since we are going by Islamic law, when the father deserts the family, as Obama's did, the law dictates the mothers religion ocntrols the children. Also, Obama's father was an atheist, so he would be the apostate. I could go on if you'd like. Frankly, this is a blatant retarded hit piece simply because the author of it is a very intelligent man who I am sure knows better than the bullshiat he is spouting.

"As the son of the Muslim father, Senator Obama was born a Muslim under Muslim law as it is universally understood. It makes no difference that, as Senator Obama has written, his father said he renounced his religion. Likewise, under Muslim law based on the Koran his mother's Christian background is irrelevant."

this whole paragraph is totally false.

Your entire post is incorrect, and stop trying to ruin it for me. A huge reason I'll be voting for Obama is because it is a huge FU to Al Queda and their pious Muslim supporters to put a Muslim apostate in charge of Great Satan, more insulting than giving Little Satan a thousand jets to bomb Gaza or invading Afghanistan, Iraq and Iran in 8 years.
 
Sum Dum Gai
2008-05-16 8:22:48 PM  
Gish21
No, it's not. The penalty for apostasy in Islam is death. There is no way for a Muslim to leave Islam under their law short of the grave, and in most Muslim countries it is enforced. Even in 'liberal' Muslim countries like in Malaysia, you get thrown in prison if you try to leave Islam.

The Qu'ran itself says nothing at all about apostasy being punishable by death (it does of course say you burn forever in hell, but never mentions any particular punishment on earth). In fact the only apostate ever to be brought before Mohammad in the Qu'ran was thanked for his service and permitted to leave peacefully.

Some hadiths seem to support death for apostates, though in context, whether their crime is best translated as apostasy or treason can be debated, as the individuals there left the Muslim people and joined with the polytheistic tribes the Muslims were at war with.

But yes, whether or not there is scriptural backing, most Muslim traditions do declare apostasy to be punishable by death. However, few nations actually enforce such a law. There was a man in Iran charged in 2005 for switching from Islam to Christianity but he received no punishment at all for that charge, though he was jailed for two years on the related charge of concealing his conversion from his superiors in the Army (Christians cannot serve in the Army).

The only nations I'm aware of that actually execute people for apostasy are a few of the African nations, and those tend to be pretty shiatty places all around, for many more reasons than religion.
 
gbowles
2008-05-16 8:25:13 PM  
Is being a Muslim worse than being a Christian? hard to say, hard to say
 
davynelson
2008-05-16 8:27:40 PM  
if he was a muslim

a good portion of the world might lighten up
when they see an american flag
 
homerdrew415
2008-05-16 8:28:18 PM  
As much as I dislike super Christians, they don't typically want to kill me for being a Jew. Conversions are less offensive than death....
 
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