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(Wall Street Journal)   According to Obama a "patriotic" company is one that pays lots and lots of taxes, is friendly to Big Labor and unions and pays all employee health costs. Oh goody   (online.wsj.com) divider line
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1107 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Feb 2008 at 6:26 PM (15 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



177 Comments     (+0 »)


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El_Frijole_Blanco [TotalFark]
2008-02-27 2:42:24 PM  
As I recall we used to hear that what was good for GM was good for the US and didn't GM used to do all of those things


\\just sayin
 
cameroncrazy1984 [TotalFark]
2008-02-27 2:47:34 PM  
I know I go to the Wall Street Journal for all my correct information on Democratic candidates. Yep. Definitely.
 
BobtheFascist
2008-02-27 2:48:25 PM  
GM?
 
JuanSchwartz
2008-02-27 2:48:48 PM  
I guess that would be scary if you were wanting to run the US like a corporation and be cut-throat about it. Maybe we can deport the poor of our country to another one.
 
valloned
2008-02-27 2:49:51 PM  
cameroncrazy1984: I know I go to the Wall Street Journal for all my correct information on Democratic candidates. Yep. Definitely.

Not even the Wall Street Journal, but the WSJ Editorial Board. Believe it or not, the main WSJ news department is fairly non-biased. The Editorial board, however, is what you would expect of anything owned by News Corp, basically Fox News in print form.
 
Nabb1
2008-02-27 2:50:25 PM  
The legislation takes four pages to define "patriotic" companies as those that... have a position of "neutrality in employee [union] organizing drives"...

So, management is supposed to forego any position on union drives? Even the NLRA gives management the right to advocate a position. That's just ridiculous.
 
GaryPDX
2008-02-27 2:53:46 PM  
Oh for chrisakes. If you're going to change the tax revenues by offering incentives, stop farking telling people how to spend it.

I don't think this is particularly Constitutional either. Hey Barry, if you give me a 5 bucks and 40, do I have to spend the fiver on 2 dolla ho and a pack of smokes?

Or can I buy a loaf of government bread and feed myself. This is nuts!
 
fuzzwell
2008-02-27 2:54:56 PM  
Great.

Just what we need. A leader who kills businesses and then wonders why the economy fails.

Sign me up! 1 in a million!
 
2wolves [TotalFark]
2008-02-27 2:54:58 PM  
valloned: Not even the Wall Street Journal, but the WSJ Editorial Board. Believe it or not, the main WSJ news department is fairly non-biased. The Editorial board, however, is what you would expect of anything owned by News Corp, basically Fox News in print form.

The OpEd Board was like that before News Corp. The remainder of the paper is outstanding in it's reporting.
 
GaryPDX
2008-02-27 2:58:26 PM  
A whole new spin on "Yes, we can" In a couple of years it's going to be "Oh no you di'nt". Then it will be "Yes, I know dammit, we did, I'm sorry"
 
mekki
2008-02-27 3:01:17 PM  
I don't get the snark, subby. How is paying lots of taxes, which is indeed beneficial to the country and making sure your workers are taken care for so that they will be less of a burden to the country, welfarewise and criminalwise (if they have a job, they will be less likely to commit crimes for things they cannot afford and have less time to commit said crimes) not patriotic?

Instead of looking out for number one you are looking out everyone else. It's in the same line of JFK's "Ask not what your country do for you but what you can do for your country." Unless subby thinks the USA equals "Me. ME. MEEEE! It's all about me. What I want and what I can get!"
 
keylock71
2008-02-27 3:05:43 PM  
More like "According to the Opinion Journal, Obama's definition of a....etc etc".
 
Tigger
2008-02-27 3:05:46 PM  
1) this is dumb

2) it's the same kind of dumb that props up the US car and airline industries because for bullshiat sentimental reasons
 
Tigger
2008-02-27 3:07:19 PM  
conjunction OR a preposition, not both

dammit
 
burndtdan
2008-02-27 3:22:47 PM  
Coercing companies into raising wages and benefits above to market rates may only lead to fewer workers getting hired in the first place.

real wages have been declining in recent years.
 
stevecody
2008-02-27 3:34:18 PM  
Hey it's the New American Centurytm.

A patriotic company dodges taxes by moving it's headquarters offshore, outsources labor and hires cheap immigrant workers
and fires anybody who gets sick.
 
Giblet
2008-02-27 3:39:58 PM  
This is atypical of most Democratic candidates.

The usual Democratic policy is to socialize costs while privatizing profits. Real Republicans simply try to privatize everything.

Socializing costs and profits won't work. Just ask the U.S.S.R.

I doubt he'll even mention this after November, but it does raise one's hackles.
 
Ryan2065
2008-02-27 4:14:30 PM  
So, I searched for the keywords in the article that were apparently "direct quotes" from the Patriot Employer Act and I couldn't find anything on them. Well, I found a few biased articles but nothing substantial. Here is what I found on the Patriot Employer Act though:

Link (new window)

The Patriot Employers legislation would provide a tax credit equal to 1% of taxable income to employers that:

Invest in American jobs, by maintaining or increasing the number of full-time workers in America relative to the number of full-time workers outside of America AND by maintaining corporate headquarters in America if the company has ever been headquartered in America.

Pay decent wages, by paying each worker an hourly wage that would ensure that a full-time worker would earn enough to keep a family of three out of poverty (at least $ 7.80 per hour).

Prepare workers for retirement, by providing either a defined benefit plan OR a defined contribution plan that fully matches at least 5% of worker contributions for every employee.

Provide health insurance, by paying at least 60% of each worker's health care premiums.

Support the troops, by paying the difference between regular salary and military salary for all National Guard and Reserve employees who are called for active duty AND by continuing their health insurance coverage for the Guard member and his or her family.
 
albo
2008-02-27 4:22:22 PM  
good luck if you work for an unpatriotic company.

it's hard to think that incentives to get companies to do things that may not be a wise business move for the company would be a success. this is "elect-me" fodder for voters in Ohio and the northeast
 
Dancin_In_Anson
2008-02-27 4:22:35 PM  
El_Frijole_Blanco: As I recall we used to hear that what was good for GM was good for the US and didn't GM used to do all of those things

How'd that work out for them?
 
Ryan2065
2008-02-27 4:23:24 PM  
Unless I am missing something, here is the text of the "four page" bill described in the article.

Link (new window)

I really want to know what size font they use.
 
cameroncrazy1984 [TotalFark]
2008-02-27 4:28:36 PM  
albo: good luck if you work for an unpatriotic company.

it's hard to think that incentives to get companies to do things that may not be a wise business move for the company would be a success. this is "elect-me" fodder for voters in Ohio and the northeast

If they want to do business in one of the largest consumer markets in the world, they'll have to. And they will.
 
LaZBoy82
2008-02-27 4:31:14 PM  
If you screw over big companies they will just leave. This may work well with Obama's plan to make Mexico so great that no one will want to jump the fence. I doubt that Mexico will make the companies do all/any of these things.
 
LaZBoy82
2008-02-27 4:32:53 PM  
cameroncrazy1984:
If they want to do business in one of the largest consumer markets in the world, they'll have to. And they will.

Because Im sure America doesent import anything, everything is MADE IN THE USA!
 
Ryan2065
2008-02-27 4:33:39 PM  
LaZBoy82: If you screw over big companies they will just leave. This may work well with Obama's plan to make Mexico so great that no one will want to jump the fence. I doubt that Mexico will make the companies do all/any of these things.

They don't want to exactly fine these companies who aren't "patriotic" but they want to give a tax credit to the companies that are patriotic. I don't really see how this will screw over big companies and make them leave the US.
 
muck4doo
2008-02-27 4:39:17 PM  
Change!
 
Great Metal Jesus
2008-02-27 4:41:04 PM  
Doing something that could directly benefit anyone other than the top 5%? That's commie talk!

/Better dead than Red
/U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
 
burndtdan
2008-02-27 4:46:20 PM  
Ryan2065: LaZBoy82: If you screw over big companies they will just leave. This may work well with Obama's plan to make Mexico so great that no one will want to jump the fence. I doubt that Mexico will make the companies do all/any of these things.

They don't want to exactly fine these companies who aren't "patriotic" but they want to give a tax credit to the companies that are patriotic. I don't really see how this will screw over big companies and make them leave the US.

he also ignores the myriad reasons the companies are here in the first place. america is a great place to do business, in general, and i don't think we have to worry too much about all the big corporations jumping ship over a shift in their income tax expense.
 
Etchy333 [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2008-02-27 4:47:22 PM  
If you feel that strongly about it, go to work on Labor Day, submitter!
 
GreenAdder [TotalFark]
2008-02-27 4:57:49 PM  
Whether you're Democrat, Republican, or Independent, easiest way to vilify any group of people is to capitalize it and prefix it with the word "Big."

-You don't like what's playing at your local multiplex? Blame it on "Big Cinema."
-Your teeth fell out because you didn't brush them? That's because you don't let "Big Dental" tell you what to do!
-Got a DUI? "Big Law Enforcement" is trying to tell you what your BAC should be. And "Big Transportation" is saying you can only drive on roads and freeways. Pshaw!

Next time you're cornered in a debate, try it yourself!
 
seventypercent [TotalFark]
2008-02-27 5:01:14 PM  
I've always gotten a kick out of the people that complain about entitlement programs and a progressive income tax because it's "redistribution of income", but have absolutely no problems with American corporations that move their operations offshore to avoid paying taxes, thus sticking the rest of us with the bill.
 
cameroncrazy1984 [TotalFark]
2008-02-27 5:02:12 PM  
LaZBoy82: cameroncrazy1984:
If they want to do business in one of the largest consumer markets in the world, they'll have to. And they will.

Because Im sure America doesent import anything, everything is MADE IN THE USA!

That's part of the problem, isn't it. Our gigantic trade deficit with China is farking us in the ass. Maybe if we did make more stuff here we'd be better off.
 
Rev.K [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2008-02-27 5:07:31 PM  
So let me get this straight submitter. You're all for big business paying no taxes and workers receiveing no health benefits?

Sounds AWESOME! Where do I sign up?
 
BKITU [OhFark]
2008-02-27 5:08:40 PM  
cameroncrazy1984: Our gigantic trade deficit with China is farking us in the ass.

That is only problematic if they also hold vast amounts of US debt and can thereby squeeze DC's nuts by threatening a short-sell at any time. I mean, if they were able to do that, it would drive the USD to near-worthless levels as DC would be forced to "print more" all at once. Heck, the mere possibility that a country could do it would make the USD decreasingly attractive in the international market and put a steady downward pressure on its value.

Good thing they don't own vast amounts of US debt, huh?

/Oh....
 
SusanIvanova
2008-02-27 5:08:48 PM  
Makes a bit more sense than the idea that a "patriotic" citizen is one who supports random aggressive wars, pervasive governmental surveillance without judicial oversight, corporatist* hand-outs, unlimited executive power, torture, and massive deficit spending. Sounds like a prime example of a True American Patriot to me.

*NOT capitalist. There is a difference -- capitalism is intellectually defensible.
 
GAT_00
2008-02-27 5:19:53 PM  
I seriously fail to understand how this is not a good thing. A company that helps its workers is apparently a foreign idea to most Americans since they've been abused by said companies for so many years.
 
muck4doo
2008-02-27 5:24:15 PM  
cameroncrazy1984: I know I go to the Wall Street Journal for all my correct information on Democratic candidates. Yep. Definitely.

Exactly. It makes me laugh that these guys think they know more about business than Obama.
 
pandabear
2008-02-27 5:24:25 PM  
cameroncrazy1984: That's part of the problem, isn't it. Our gigantic trade deficit with China is farking us in the ass. Maybe if we did make more stuff here we'd be better off.

Chinese employers are not required to pay $7.80/hr with medical and retirement benefits. They don't have to be "union neutral." And they pay a lower income tax on profits. They don't have to hire domestically to set off any foreign hires. Don't you think there is a reason the US is no longer competitive in manufacturing? It's the cost of labor in the US.

That's the point of the editorial. By making US companies pay more for labor, in return for tax breaks--which, BTW, they will only do if the savings in taxes exceeds the increased cost of labor, so the bill really is a way of making you pay the increased labor cost through taxation--you are only going to make the economy, especially the trade deficit, worse.
 
cameroncrazy1984 [TotalFark]
2008-02-27 5:43:17 PM  
pandabear: That's the point of the editorial. By making US companies pay more for labor, in return for tax breaks--which, BTW, they will only do if the savings in taxes exceeds the increased cost of labor, so the bill really is a way of making you pay the increased labor cost through taxation--you are only going to make the economy, especially the trade deficit, worse.

The answer to that is easy. Want to do business here? Manufacture a certain percentage of your products here, using American labor. Stuff might cost a little more, but there will be more people earning money to pay for things. Takes a burden off unemployment rolls. Eases our trade deficit. Brings higher-quality lead-free products to the market. And it slows China's economic growth while increasing ours.
 
SusanIvanova
2008-02-27 5:47:13 PM  
cameroncrazy1984: The answer to that is easy. Want to do business here? Manufacture a certain percentage of your products here, using American labor. Stuff might cost a little more, but there will be more people earning money to pay for things. Takes a burden off unemployment rolls. Eases our trade deficit. Brings higher-quality lead-free products to the market. And it slows China's economic growth while increasing ours.

It will probably slow ours, too. But (a) not as much as it will slow theirs, and (b) more of the growth we do see will be go towards wages (and therefore consumer spending) than towards profits. At this point, it should be an easy sell.
 
Jubeebee [TotalFark]
2008-02-27 5:57:12 PM  
El_Frijole_Blanco: As I recall we used to hear that what was good for GM was good for the US and didn't GM used to do all of those things


Making cars that fall apart at or before 90,000 miles in a market flooded with reliable imports has hurt GM more than labor costs have.

Refusing to sell their best products here (I'm looking at you, Euro Focus) has hurt Ford more than labor costs have.

Sticking Hemis in everything as gas prices skyrocket has hurt Chrysler more than labor costs have.

Planned obsolescence and unappealing products have done more damage to the Big 3 than the UAW ever has.
 
Hideously Gigantic Smurf
2008-02-27 6:31:51 PM  
Silly negro! Members of the working class aren't Americans!
 
ramathorn83
2008-02-27 6:33:03 PM  
muck4doo: Change!

oasis-open.org
 
Ant
2008-02-27 6:34:38 PM  
Jubeebee: Refusing to sell their best products here (I'm looking at you, Euro Focus) has hurt Ford more than labor costs have.

Yeah, what the fark is up with the new US Focus? It looks like it was put together with whatever parts they found lying around the shop floor.
 
Barry McCackiner
2008-02-27 6:37:12 PM  
Way to exagerrate the actual topic with the flaming headline subt-ard, opinion peices like this are garbage. What Obama proposes is not all that radical, and most companies already comply with it just by default.

Maybe we should keep everything as it is, since that seems to be working out so well...
 
quickdraw
2008-02-27 6:39:42 PM  
Back in ye olden times before most of you farkers were even a glimmer in your pappy's eye large companies took an interest in their employees welfare.

They recognized that a healthy motivated workforce was good for their profits and they provided healthcare, vacation pay and regular raises. Sure - there were problems. Sexism and racism were rampant but most men could support their families on a single paycheck. This business model made the USA the wealthiest country in the world.

The current business model is not working out so well. Perhaps repealing tax breaks to companies who ship all their jobs overseas would be a step in the right direction.
 
Kuta
2008-02-27 6:41:20 PM  
Article gets greenlit after TotalFark has had a shot at it?

Sharp turn to the left please. ;)

But, CORPORATIONS ARE NOT PATRIOTIC, no matter where they may be headquartered. They exist only to make money for their shareholders. If morals, ethics, and patriotism are convenient for them, they will go along as long as it helps the bottom line.

THAT IS ALL THEY ARE AND WILL EVER BE.

They can't be reasoned with, they can't be bargained with...they doesn't feel pity or remorse or fear...and they absolutely will not stop. Ever.
Until you are dead.
 
Billygoat Gruff
2008-02-27 6:41:42 PM  
How dare someone run a business just to make a profit!

/profit=greed!
//save animals not money!
///slashies are still free...for now
 
ConservativesBlow
2008-02-27 6:41:53 PM  
What's submitter's idea of a patriotic company then?

Here at Submitter, LLC we have just one motto: fark our employees, and fark 'em the American way!
 
Lawnchair
2008-02-27 6:42:32 PM  
pandabear:
Chinese employers are not required to pay $7.80/hr with medical and retirement benefits. They don't have to be "union neutral." And they pay a lower income tax on profits.

They also don't have to provide any obey much if any environmental standards (bribe a little and pour anything you want down the river). No workers' safety or injury-compensation regulations. No restriction on 13 year olds working. No restrictions on companies charging their workers for "dormitory rent" that keeps them enslaved to the company. No accounting for prison labor.

Hard to compete with all that, isn't it? Well, damn it, let's race them to the bottom!
 
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