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(Science Blogs)   Not News: Creationist runs lab experiment that proves evolution. News: Announces results at conference full of creationists. Fark: Gets called on it by the scientist in the audience   (scienceblogs.com) divider line
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10018 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 07 Feb 2008 at 2:34 PM (15 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



214 Comments     (+0 »)


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2008-02-07 10:44:42 AM  
Classic.

"So, a beneficial mutation happened right in your lab?" at which point the moderator halted questioning.
 
2008-02-07 10:55:02 AM  
Darwin sez, "Ooh, sick burn."

/fark you, IDiots
 
2008-02-07 10:57:53 AM  
i23.photobucket.comView Full Size


What would Dino-Riding Jeebus say?
 
2008-02-07 11:01:05 AM  
photos.imageevent.comView Full Size
 
2008-02-07 11:04:27 AM  
That's beautiful!
 
2008-02-07 11:12:24 AM  
Moderators are the tin foil creationists use to keep scientists out of their conferences.
 
2008-02-07 11:17:53 AM  
img150.imageshack.usView Full Size
 
2008-02-07 11:31:20 AM  
The Onanist

Why is Jesus riding that dinosaur sidesaddle? Shouldn't he be astride, like a man????
 
2008-02-07 11:32:28 AM  
*chirp chirp*
 
2008-02-07 11:34:35 AM  
Quite obviously a test of our faith by God. Don't be fooled, lest ye burn in hell!
 
2008-02-07 11:38:45 AM  
Oh, and, I'd like to see Bevets apologize this away. It's always amusing watching him flail about pointlessly.
 
2008-02-07 11:39:25 AM  
what_now: Shouldn't he be astride, like a man????

Jesus was a woman, baby.
 
2008-02-07 11:41:15 AM  
zeph`: Oh, and, I'd like to see Bevets apologize this away.

"The experiment was flawed / the perceived results were in error."

/translation: LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU
 
2008-02-07 11:50:54 AM  
Surefire greenlights- Britney, evolution.
 
2008-02-07 11:51:34 AM  
You know who else acknowledged the existence of beneficial mutations?
 
2008-02-07 11:53:33 AM  
ArbitraryConstant: You know who else acknowledged the existence of beneficial mutations?

Wait, I know this. Darwin?
 
2008-02-07 11:54:52 AM  
ArcadianRefugee: /translation: LA LA LA LA I CAN'T HEAR YOU

Well, that is the ultimate argumentative tactic.
 
2008-02-07 11:56:30 AM  
Any science that cannot bear questioning and close scrutiny is not science.
 
2008-02-07 11:56:39 AM  
One simple question of confirmation was all it took to shut down an ID lecture.


if that isn't proof enough of the fallacy of ID, I don't know what else people need.

the best part is the scientist probably dead-panned the question to let the audience digest it and realize just how stupid they were in the face of such an obvious question.
 
2008-02-07 12:00:06 PM  
God decided to allow them to be more successful in the laboratory environment.
 
2008-02-07 12:06:19 PM  
darkyn: Any science that cannot bear questioning and close scrutiny is not science.

Lies, slanderous lies. You quite obviously lack an understanding of the scientific method - disconfirming evidence is simply discarded when it runs up against a theory with the weight of God behind it.

CanadianCommie: if that isn't proof enough of the fallacy of ID, I don't know what else people need.

Brains.
 
2008-02-07 12:07:31 PM  
bulldg4life: God decided to allow them to be more successful in the laboratory environment.

Exactly. All that happened was God showed them how He, in part, actually intelligently designed the world. It's not that hard to understand.
 
2008-02-07 12:07:46 PM  
Heh. Imagine that! The IDers finally decide to actually try some experimentation and discover evolution. Brilliant!
 
2008-02-07 12:10:23 PM  
iPrism is the tinfoil hat work uses to keep science blogs out of my brainwaves.

Can anyone post the text of the article?
 
2008-02-07 12:11:18 PM  
zeph`: Brains.

no, I think they have them, they just shut them off. If you read the blog that this article is referring to, the people presenting the "ID" side aren't stupid, they are just wholly fooling themselves in their conclusions.

I'm still reading it (it's heavy but very well worth the read) and you'll learn something from it (I know I have so far).


I have my doubts that people who support ID will read it, because these people are reporting on a 'secret meeting' meaning that that will be enough for the mouth-breathing faction of ID to condemn it because these people felt obligated to report on something they didn't want edited to hell in a year to make ID look more legit than it is (which is to say that it isn't legit at all in the first place).
 
2008-02-07 12:17:07 PM  
CanadianCommie: you'll learn something from it

You underestimate my boundless knowledge.

no, I think they have them

They certainly have them, but they certainly don't choose to exercise what having a brain entails, namely, rational thought. That they have access to the exact same evidence that those who believe in evolution do, but come to radically different conclusions, betray a ridiculous selection bias, namely that of religion. Anybody bringing in a religious selection bias to science is doomed to failure.
 
2008-02-07 12:21:15 PM  
ArcadianRefugee: zeph`: Oh, and, I'd like to see Bevets apologize this away.

"The experiment was flawed / the perceived results were in error."

My money's on "This is obviously an example of 'micro-evolution' and not 'macro-evolution'."


 
2008-02-07 12:23:33 PM  
zeph`: You underestimate my boundless knowledge.

I meant that as a blanket statement, not necessarily directed at you :)

zeph`: They certainly have them, but they certainly don't choose to exercise what having a brain entails, namely, rational thought. That they have access to the exact same evidence that those who believe in evolution do, but come to radically different conclusions, betray a ridiculous selection bias, namely that of religion. Anybody bringing in a religious selection bias to science is doomed to failure.

I agree. They present a very selective position on a very selective set of evidence that uses a shaky foundation or a purposeful misunderstanding of the evidence. All it is is a selective reasoning to satisfy the foregone conclusion.

Here's a quote that I think sums it up nicely
(in response to Robert Marks, whose particular lecture was on attempting to find a pre-determined end-point of research, namely, a designer):


"...biological evolution is not a process in which the system searches randomly for a pre-determined endpoint. As well, the search space is not static through time, with some of the changes in that space being the result of evolution itself. There is no hierarchical or contextual organization or function of the information in his program, which is based on a deterministic algorithm, despite the fact that evolution itself is indeterministic."
(new window)
 
2008-02-07 12:34:01 PM  
CanadianCommie: I meant that as a blanket statement, not necessarily directed at you :)

Heh, heh. I actually am interested in reading the blog, but I'm sitting in class trying to listen. I figure I can still half-listen while commenting on Fark, but reading anything remotely interesting or engrossing tends to lead to a complete blocking-out of the outside world, namely, my lecture.

They present a very selective position on a very selective set of evidence that uses a shaky foundation or a purposeful misunderstanding of the evidence.

That's what I mean. We all bring certain selection biases (both as to what we admit as evidence, either supporting or disconfirming and as to what theory we chose to endorse as true) with us when we attempt science, it's the duty of any real scientist to try and understand what their individual biases are so that they can be negated. Creationists (and the proponents of intelligent design, if we can call those different things) know full well they have certain overwhelming biases, but do nothing to overcome or negate these biases (and often use these same biases as additional proof for their theories). For this reason, above all others, I simply can't consider these alternative theories (to evolution) scientific in the least, or worthy of even the smallest amount of consideration.
 
2008-02-07 12:35:49 PM  
ZOMG EVOLUTOIN THRED!

img46.imageshack.usView Full Size
 
2008-02-07 12:39:13 PM  
zeph`: Creationists (and the proponents of intelligent design, if we can call those different things)

It's easier to just call them cdesign proponentsists. ;)
 
2008-02-07 12:39:19 PM  
zeph`: Heh, heh. I actually am interested in reading the blog, but I'm sitting in class trying to listen. I figure I can still half-listen while commenting on Fark, but reading anything remotely interesting or engrossing tends to lead to a complete blocking-out of the outside world, namely, my lecture.

hah, well, read it when you get a free block. It's worth it, because when you see the full context surrounding the verbal eviscerating TFA is referring to, you'll laugh even harder.

zeph`: That's what I mean. We all bring certain selection biases (both as to what we admit as evidence, either supporting or disconfirming and as to what theory we chose to endorse as true) with us when we attempt science, it's the duty of any real scientist to try and understand what their individual biases are so that they can be negated. Creationists (and the proponents of intelligent design, if we can call those different things) know full well they have certain overwhelming biases, but do nothing to overcome or negate these biases (and often use these same biases as additional proof for their theories). For this reason, above all others, I simply can't consider these alternative theories (to evolution) scientific in the least, or worthy of even the smallest amount of consideration.

I think it's safe to say we agree here, I just feel more sorry for them. Probably just a twinge of pity, it'll pass as soon as the ID folks start posting in here.
 
2008-02-07 12:42:27 PM  
The beatings will continue until reason prevails.
cottoncandyblues.comView Full Size
 
2008-02-07 12:53:01 PM  
CrankMyBlueSax: The beatings will continue until reason prevails.

I'll see your beating-a-dead-horse, and raise you a fish-claw-bat-crab-thingy.

farm3.static.flickr.comView Full Size
 
2008-02-07 12:58:07 PM  
Obligatory, from abb3w:
people.virginia.eduView Full Size
 
2008-02-07 1:06:39 PM  
chimp_ninja: Obligatory, from abb3w:

I'll keep that handy. ;)
 
2008-02-07 1:16:42 PM  
xanadian: I'll keep that handy. ;)

It's in my profile if you lose it!

None of the Creationists here have ever mounted even a minimal challenge to it. I do smell some quote-mining coming, though.

[image from hometown.aol.com too old to be available]
 
2008-02-07 1:18:50 PM  
xanadian: I'll see your beating-a-dead-horse, and raise you a fish-claw-bat-crab-thingy.

Go fish :-)
i79.photobucket.comView Full Size
 
2008-02-07 1:39:06 PM  
Why does the author assume that a "horizontal transfer of genetic information" amounts to new information?

"The horizontal transfer of genes only spreads around genes that are already in some species." ~ Dr. Lee Spetner.
 
2008-02-07 1:45:52 PM  
CrankMyBlueSax: xanadian: I'll see your beating-a-dead-horse, and raise you a fish-claw-bat-crab-thingy.

Go fish :-)


rAmen, brother!
 
2008-02-07 1:46:54 PM  
Faith is the tinfoil hat creationists wear to keep reality out of their brainwaves.
 
2008-02-07 1:54:21 PM  
Before any of these nuts expound on anything to do with science, they should take a remedial course which instructs what science is, what the scientific method is and definitions for theory and hypothesis.
 
2008-02-07 2:01:11 PM  
SkinnyHead: "The horizontal transfer of genes only spreads around genes that are already in some species." ~ Dr. Lee Spetner.

OH, please continue Dr. Spetnet..... "It turns out, however, that a microorganism can sometimes acquire resistance to an antibiotic through a random substitution of a single nucleotide"

Another out of context quote by another intellectually dishonest dumbass.
 
2008-02-07 2:25:04 PM  
SkinnyHead: Why does the author assume that a "horizontal transfer of genetic information" amounts to new information?
FTA: she had actually found a novel variant that seemed to lead to enhanced colony growth

M-W, "novel" (adjective): 1 : new and not resembling something formerly known or used

Hmmm? Did you not know that "novel" can mean "new"? The new variant is the new information.
abb3w: So, what would you suggest be taught in the case of my "'P OR Q' is equivalent to 'Q OR P'" proposition? Should they teach controversy there?
SkinnyHead: I don't know. What's your opinion?
chimp_ninja: My opinion is that you aren't bright enough to understand abb3w's question.
SkinnyHead: Agreed.

I'm starting to agree, too.
 
2008-02-07 2:27:52 PM  
Sleeping Monkey: OH, please continue Dr. Spetnet..... "It turns out, however, that a microorganism can sometimes acquire resistance to an antibiotic through a random substitution of a single nucleotide"

OH, please continue Dr. Spetner..... "The type of mutation that grants resistance to streptomycin is manifest in the ribosome and degrades its molecular match with the antibiotic molecule. This change in the surface of the microorganism's ribosome prevents the streptomycin molecule from attaching and carrying out its antibiotic function. It turns out that this degradation is a loss of specificity and therefore a loss of information. The main point is that Evolution A cannot be achieved by mutations of this sort, no matter how many of them there are. Evolution cannot be built by accumulating mutations that only degrade specificity." ~ Dr. Lee Spetner.
 
2008-02-07 2:28:08 PM  
SkinnyHead: Why does the author assume that a "horizontal transfer of genetic information" amounts to new information?

"The horizontal transfer of genes only spreads around genes that are already in some species." ~ Dr. Lee Spetner.


Oh weird, Mr. GED in Law has become such a disciple of the big b that he's even using the tilde.
 
2008-02-07 2:37:09 PM  
SkinnyHead: Sleeping Monkey: OH, please continue Dr. Spetnet..... "It turns out, however, that a microorganism can sometimes acquire resistance to an antibiotic through a random substitution of a single nucleotide"

OH, please continue Dr. Spetner..... "The type of mutation that grants resistance to streptomycin is manifest in the ribosome and degrades its molecular match with the antibiotic molecule. This change in the surface of the microorganism's ribosome prevents the streptomycin molecule from attaching and carrying out its antibiotic function. It turns out that this degradation is a loss of specificity and therefore a loss of information. The main point is that Evolution A cannot be achieved by mutations of this sort, no matter how many of them there are. Evolution cannot be built by accumulating mutations that only degrade specificity." ~ Dr. Lee Spetner.


The Entire Debate (new window) Get a clue.
 
2008-02-07 2:40:16 PM  
Nestea Plunge: Before any of these nuts expound on anything to do with science, they should take a remedial course which instructs what science is, what the scientific method is and definitions for theory and hypothesis.

Which I'm sure they will do - when shrimp learn to whistle.
 
2008-02-07 2:44:35 PM  
Sleeping Monkey: The Entire Debate (new window) Get a clue.

Lack of space between words and total disregard for spell-checking is the tinfoil writers use to keep readers out of their articles?
 
2008-02-07 2:50:05 PM  
Haha... I love this one:

Paul Nelson - "Why Building Animals is Hard."

Anyone else picture the GEICO caveman?
 
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