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(CNN)   New anime movie big in Japan   ( divider line
    More: Obvious  
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3378 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 Aug 2001 at 7:39 AM (16 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

228 Comments     (+0 »)

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2001-08-03 08:31:52 AM  
As a big Miyazaki fan, I cannot wait to see Spirited Away. I wish Disney didn't have the distribution deal, though; they haven't been doing a very good job of distributing his older stuff, and of course they will schedule Spirited Away around any big Disney releases.
2001-08-03 08:37:24 AM  
Hey, that kid looks just like KiKi the witch. Are all his movies about 10 year old girls.
2001-08-03 08:39:44 AM  
Wow.. animated child porn for 30 year old adults that haven't left their parents basements is big in japan too.
2001-08-03 08:45:14 AM  
test message(I cant authenticate)
2001-08-03 08:55:02 AM  
Hey Fb- haven't we had this conversation before? LoL.

My friend Tait is in Japan right now teaching conversational English. He just got to see a screening of Spirited Away... Jealousy ensues.

I agree Superiorstudio, I wish they hadn't signed on with Uncle Walt, either. It's really limited their ability to choose their own markets for release - and has also stuck them with Disney's cutting-room-floor syndrome.
2001-08-03 09:26:20 AM  
Choose their own markets for release? YEAH. Cuz Anime movies ALWAYS get national distrabution and big name actors in their dubs. What the fark are you talking about? Mononoke got one of the BIGGEST releases an Anime movie has gotten in America in a LONG LONG time, you might not have liked the dub or the translation but it was at least an ATTEMPT. Geezuz friggin picky ass Anime fans piss me off.

Would you rather have them putting out more "Warriors of the Wind?" BAH!
2001-08-03 09:43:44 AM  
i like anime, but i strongly dislike this apparent trend for spookiness -
stupid "spirits" just ruin an otherwise good movie like in Final Fantasy
2001-08-03 09:49:32 AM  
Hey, Fishbulb? Aren't you taking this a little seriously? I was just making conversation. It's not the end of the world whether they make big sales or not. I actually really liked Mononoke, and even pushed to have it screened in my local UICA.

And no, I would not prefer more Warriors of the Wind. Where did that come from? My, you are a tempestuous fellow. Also, I never mentioned whether I liked or disliked the dub or the translation of Mononoke Hime; way to assume. Please, Fishbulb, calm down and let's not reduce this into a Troll-fest.

Also, to reiterate my original post - part of the reason I enjoy Japanese cinema is because of the differences, both cultural and philosophical, displayed in their films. With the influence of a major American entertainment conglomerate now involved in the production of these films, I fear that over time those differences that I loved so much will be lost. As far as market choice goes, it's simply a matter of the freedom of the Japanese production company choosing not to take the wheel of it's own creation. By letting Disney market and move the film for them, they lose some creative control. Not a huge, lifethreatening thing, but it matters to some artists. That's what I'm talking about, Fishbulb.
2001-08-03 09:51:42 AM  
Bah whatever, im not trolling, I see Anime freaks complaining about their precious art all the time, and I find it quite annoying. I wasn't specifically targetting you Mr. Factory, I was just kind of ranting. I like to rant.
2001-08-03 09:57:09 AM  
Fishbulb, I was talking more about Disney's handling of the Studio Ghibli back catalog: My Neighbour Totoro and Kiki's Delivery Service are so far the only ones available, I think, and as far as I know only Kiki is available on DVD. Although one of the Lupin movies is available on DVD from Manga video, I guess Disney must not have the rights to that for some reason. In any case I would be a lot happier with Disney's handling of the films if they gave them the same nice packaging and promotion that they do with, say, the Pixar films. Nausicaa is unavailable while we have special deluxe editions of farking DINOSAUR? Please.

And I for one would rather not have "big name actors" doing dubbing at all- just subtitles and the original actors' voices (although I will concede they did a good job with the Princess Mononoke dub).

Mole4Hire, have you ever played a FF game? The FF movie had the same kind of story that all of the games do, and for that matter lots of anime. It shouldn't have been surprising.
2001-08-03 10:00:32 AM  
CO2... I, too, envy your friend. What a lucky sonova Tait is to have had the pleasure of seeing what sounds like another great Anime.
2001-08-03 10:02:41 AM  
See, this is what I'm talking about, don't take this the wrong way Superstudio, cuz I'm sure you're a good guy. SUBTITLES? Come on people, subtitles are NOT going to make money. Sure, we would all LOVE to have subtitles, but its not going to happen on a large scale release in this country, especially by Disney. If theyre going to dub the films, which they are, at least they got decent actors to be in the dub, thats all I was trying to say. If you really want to enjoy Anime the way it was meant to be, learn Japanese, everything else is just allowing someone else to control what you see.

I don't believe that other than Castle of Caligistro any of hte Lupin movies were done by Miyazaki. Of course I'm probably wrong. When did Disney put out a My Neighbor Toroto? I haven't seen anything other than the Fox dub at the video store.

2001-08-03 10:03:30 AM  
Hm. Well won't be long until I can just get this puppy off hotline.
2001-08-03 10:05:38 AM  
It's totally cool to rant, Fishbulb, and I'd never say different. I'm not offended or anything, just wanted to clear the air a little.

As with many cultural art phenomenon, Anime has found a large following. When any person has an affinity for a given subject, be it Skateboarding (something else I enjoy), Music, Politics, or even Anime, they tend to want the best for their hobby or art form. Thusly, Skateboarders speak out when their rights are infringed by cops who take their boards. Music fans complain when their favorite artist is censored, or a scene gets watered down by posuers. Even Anime fans get upset when they see a balance being upset. We're allowed to rant too ;)
2001-08-03 10:08:27 AM  
Amen, BorkingChikapa. It's time to fire up me 'ole UMAX of love and run my HL movie server... Good 'ole 1.2.3. Who else knows what I'm talkin' about? Yeah, that's right.
2001-08-03 10:09:23 AM  
I think, myself personally, tho CO2, that Anime fans complain way way too much. There is not a giant market of hardcore Anime fans in the US. There might be a moderately large market of casual fans, but the hardcore fans are just so vocal and loud that I completely stopped following Anime because of them. They demand way way more than the market should bear. I don't know, I just think they should be happy with what they get. Its frigging cartoons from another country! I'm amazed we can even buy them over here to begin with, complaining and being elietist about everything is NOT going to make the market larger, its going to keep it small, drive casual fans away from it.

Of course, thats what alot of Anime fans want. So whatever.

2001-08-03 10:13:58 AM  
Fishbulb, I'm sure you're a swell guy too, but now who sounds like a fanatic? Sure, I'll just go learn the language of every foreign film I want to go see.

Of course subtitles are a compromise, but it's one I can live with since your proposal is not even remotely realistic. Of course they will not draw in the kind of numbers Disney would expect (Crouching Tiger notwithstanding). That to me is only another reason why Disney should not be the ones who decide. When you dub films, you inevitably change dialogue that tends not to be changed in subtitles- I was shocked at how much this happened in Crouching Tiger, actually.

I'm not interested in box office receipts, I'm interested in seeing good films. If Studio Ghibli wants to make as much money as possible by having Disney handle them (and risking a loss of integrity as a result), that's up to them. Hopefully it will work out for them. But they shouldn't be surprised that people who love films are less than enthused about the prospects.

Disney has not yet done anything with Totoro, as you say it is only available in that old Fox video as far as I know. I heard that they are working on "big star" redubs of that and Castle in the Sky.

My understanding of the Lupin series is that Miyazaki directed the old TV series and that is where Caligostro came from, but there is a lot more stuff which is only available via import? I don't know. I'm not so hardcore that I've started importing DVDs and VCDs from Japan.. yet. ;)
2001-08-03 10:15:27 AM  
I know a few fans like that, myself. But I also know rather a lot of other folks who are casual to hardcore fans, who are well balanced, normal people.

Just abandoning the art form or the anime entertainment industry due to a few people that bother us won't help it flourish any more than their complaining does. The idea is, though, that we stick with it, and help people realize that anime is a viable art form. No matter how annoying the buggers get, just persevere. In all things we do in life, we face adversity. My life is, by no means, centered around anime, but I like it. And no whiner's gonna keep me away.
2001-08-03 10:19:17 AM  
As an anime fan i say this:



har har har, the mere sound of Totoro hentai would make any anime fan giggle.
2001-08-03 10:21:08 AM  
But, see Studio, no one is going to release it in the US unless they can make money off it, so you HAVE to be concerned with reciepts. Its incredibly important. And i wasn't acctually suggesting that you learn Japanese, I was saying that the ONLY way to truely enjoy it as it was intended is to learn Japanese. Any other translation is just that, a translation, and isn't perfect.

On the dub of Kiki's they released they had a trailer for Castle in the Sky. It was dubbed. Kid from Dawson's Creek. This was like a year or two ago. Wonder why it hasnt come out.

CO2, I agree, but this is a hobby, I'm not going to invest money or time in a hobby where I have to argue with the other people who enjoy it all the damn time. Its not worth it for my free time, I still pick up occasional anime/manga material (I've been buying the Lone Wolf and Cub Manga) but when I go into a Comic Book store and get argued with by the guy behind the counter because I pick up a movie, I don't particularly feel like being part of that fan base. Does that make sense?

2001-08-03 10:22:14 AM  
Just to throw a little grease on the fire:

Fishbulb-"SUBTITLES? Come on people, subtitles are NOT going to make money."

Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon made over $120 million (as of Mid-April) and I'm SURE has made more since then. No, this is not Anime, but it does have subtitles and it proves that subtitled movies CAN make it over here, as long as they have a good story and good cinematics and keep the interest of the viewer.
2001-08-03 10:24:42 AM  
Crouching Tiger made money because it was percieved as a big time art film. It was nominated for awards. Thats why people wanted to see it. Occasionally something foreign makes a few bucks over here, that Roberto Begenenenene movie from a few years ago did well. Okay I'll rephrase.

Subtitled CARTOONS are NOT going to make money.
2001-08-03 10:28:23 AM  
Well said CO2. As a cartoonist and comics fan I am more than familiar with the subset of vocal geeks who can turn off the average consumer. It sucks but what can you do? In Japan the average adult loves comics and anime. In North America they look down their noses at it and then kick back to watch another season of PROVIDENCE or WALKER, TEXAS RANGER.

A co-worker actually gave me a hard time once because I was reading a comic book at lunchtime- the collection of FROM HELL by Alan Moore and Eddie Campbell, arguably one of the best comics ever and one of the best books I've read in any form. I explained what it was about and she just rolled her eyes. Of course, now that it's a big film starring Johnny Depp, she'll probably be all over it. Go figure.
2001-08-03 10:29:41 AM  
From Hell movie looks terrible, bought the script at the Comic Con. bad bad bad bad bad bad bad bad. Loses everything the comic had. Oh well. Maybe more people will buy the comic because of it.
2001-08-03 10:33:53 AM  
I don't doubt that you're right, Fishbulb, that dubs make more money than subs, just as colour movies do better than black and white. A big reason for that is simply what distributors are willing to carry and how well they think something will do in their markets.

I have to wonder, though, in the case of this film, how much money is enough? It is going to make more than TITANIC did in Japan. How much more money do they need to make from this film? Does it always have to be as much as possible?

Yeah, I'm naive. But at least they're not in the position that Square is in.. their $140 million Final Fantasy movie looks like it might only make $40 mil domestically. Lucky for them they have lots of cash already from videogames. A loss like that could kill a normal studio.

Anyway, yeah, I too have been wondering whatever happened to that CASTLE IN THE SKY video.
2001-08-03 10:35:01 AM  
Fishbulb while it's true that that can turn fans off, arguing and discussion are linguistic and sociological traits that are more human than they are otaku. Persons from many different societies and backgrounds argue and discuss all sorts of subjects with passion. Rock stars argue, music fans have squabbles - but there are moments of agreement as well.

Anime conventions aren't always snob fests, and rock concerts aren't always feel-good everyone-loves-everyone-else situations.

BTW, perhaps you should rephrase again - seeing as subtitled cartoons have been making money in this country since the late eighties. True, it's not a trillion dollar business - but it's growing every day. The fact that a major conglomerate like Disney has picked up on Miyazaki's work is further proof that the anime and manga culture is picking up in America. So perhaps "Subtitled cartoons may not make as much as a dubbed cartoon might." May be a more appropriate generalization.
2001-08-03 10:37:29 AM  
Can't say I'm surprised to hear that about the From Hell film. The trailer did not seem to represent much of what I remembered from the comic. I certainly didn't recall some kind of love interest for the detective. Oh well... it could be worse (he said, remembering the WATCHMEN film script ;)
2001-08-03 10:39:13 AM  
Of course its a generalization.... They make money, true, enough to support the subtitled video market? Apparently not since its almost completely disapeared now a days hasn't it? I could have sworn I heard it was almost completely gone. Subtitled DVDS exist, but thats easy to do since you can throw a couple audio tracks on there.

Okay I'll admit it, I'm just bitter at the crazy Anime freaks for being so annoying. I'll calm down a tad :)

I haven't been into anime in a couple years, but I hold no ill will against the industry. Just some of the fans

2001-08-03 10:40:47 AM  
Which Watchmen script is that? The Samm Hamm one that Gilliam was going to do? That wasnt terrible. Ending was kinda ehhhh but it was better than From Hell.*shudder*
2001-08-03 10:41:36 AM  
It's all good, Fishbulb ;) I'm still mad at the guy who cut in front of me at the sushi bar at JAFAX III a coupla years ago, hehe.
2001-08-03 10:42:38 AM  

But, see Studio, no one is going to release it in the US unless they can make money off it, so you HAVE to be concerned with reciepts

Actually, I do have to contest this issue. The US is an entire market where, by default, they make no money from. Making *any* money from the US is an improvement. Oftentimes, they just don't care. In that case, fansubs pick up the slack (fansubs actually used to be completely legal, btw, until the US signed WIPO in '96 - now they're just simply not enforced (I haven't even been able to locate a single lawsuit against a distributor, let alone an individual - its bootlegs that they go against)). But, yeah, back to the original point, to get a US release, they don't have to be concerned with receipts. Its about how much the company wants to try and get.

Oh, btw, if anyone wants any anime music vids and has an FTP site, I can send, I've got a few gigs :) I've also got a few fansubbed/unsubbed movies/eps (DivX ;) is nice :) ).

-= rei =-
2001-08-03 10:44:05 AM  

When you find something o US TV that compares to Serial Experiments Lain, let me know. ;)

-= rei =-
2001-08-03 10:44:20 AM  
yeah, I have the Sam Hamm one. It's not bad (especially considering the stuff he had to change around and still have the film make sense) but I can't imagine that book being translated into a good 2-hour film. I always felt it would work better as a miniseries of some kind, like the way they published the comic in Europe- 2 issues at a time, making 6 episodes.
2001-08-03 10:44:48 AM  
They don't want to lose money Rei. Obviously subtitled releases are a money losing endevor or they would exist. Here's a secret. Studios LIE about how much movies cost to make, and production costs, and release costs. Its all a bunch of BULLSHIT. Movies make money or they wouldn't exist.
2001-08-03 10:46:09 AM  
Actually Gilliam tried to get it as a mini series for awhile, but no one would bite. Sad. Besides Watchmen wouldn't work in today's society. Too much Cold War stuff in it. Just like DKR. The audience wouldn't 'get' it. Oh well I can always read the comics again
2001-08-03 10:47:53 AM  
I agree with Reveal, I'd rather have subtitles and the original dialogue - partly 'cos I prefer lipsyncing even in a foreign language, and partly 'cos the 'voice talents' the wheel in for these thinks tend to be fucking terrible.
2001-08-03 10:48:38 AM  
2001-08-03 10:49:37 AM  
Rei? You rock. ;) I have a few rare VCD's on their way back from Japan with Tait that I might be willing to trade for some good footage.

Hey, Fb- I think we had enough of your Trolling during that Gundam thread.

Also, I have a very close friend whose sister has Down's Syndrome. Your little picture might seem cute and witty to you, but it's not to me. Besides, you used that line in your last troll-thread. So, if you would, please get some new material.

Frankly, I've enjoyed the conversation we've been having. It started out as something of an argument, but everyone's been acting real cool.
2001-08-03 10:50:46 AM  
I really wasn't trying to argue, I just tend to be cranky in the morning, and I always use harsh language because I'm stupid and I have to make up for my lack of brain power ;)
2001-08-03 10:52:08 AM  
You're not stupid, man. Morning's suck... I just hit my four cups 'o coffee and three cigarettes in ten minutes mark... and I'm at work, LoL...
2001-08-03 10:52:25 AM  

The movie is already made. They don't have to remake it. They have to translate it, and re-edit the film. This can be accomplished with one or two bilingual people in a few days. Copying the transcript onto the video also takes a few days, with another one or two people. We're looking at a cost of, what, 5,000$ or so, including administrative costs and equiptment usage? Average fansub prices reflect distribution costs - usually around, what, 5-10$? Average commercial distributions seem to cost around 25$ or so. So, that's 15-20$ profit per tape. That means they'd need to sell 300 or so tapes to break even, after that, its profit. Even the most widely unwatched of movies will get that, let alone series' where you need to buy multiple tapes.

Now, for a theatrical release, its different...

-= rei =-
2001-08-03 10:54:06 AM  
I was talking about a theatrical release Rei, you know that :) Don't whip your stats out on me damnit! :) A video only release? Hell yeah, subtitle the crap out of it, a theatrical release? Suicide.

Lain was good btw. I liked that.
2001-08-03 10:54:40 AM  

I've got good music videos for pretty much anything you could name, the Escaflowne movie (I liked it :) ), gasaraki... oh, shoot, my ride is here, I'll return to this thread in a few hours. I've got a lot more than that, but I don't have time ;)

-= rei =-
2001-08-03 10:57:32 AM  
Personally I like "Key" and Evangalion... anyone seen those? I have the key and evangalion songs they rock expecailly the key ones...
2001-08-03 10:59:33 AM  
I liked Evangelion alot, I spent way too much money on it a couple years back. Bought a SHITLOAD of models. Music CDs. Fansub of the movie. Yeah. Eva. Rock.
2001-08-03 11:00:54 AM  
Key the Metal Idol? That was a fun movie.
2001-08-03 11:03:37 AM  
I've found that most of the people that hate anime can't afford to buy it, and thus decry the fans as elite shmucks. I get most of my stuff free. :)

I have to agree with Rei, though-- when US television starts showing something decent, I might watch it.

Every now and then
I turn it on again
but it's plain to see
that US TV still sucks.

By the way, rabid fans drive me nuts, too...when I had a table at the last convention-- well, I won't get into it. Rabid anime fans strike me as better than rabid wrestling fans anyhow.
2001-08-03 11:05:51 AM  
Oh come on WAshuu, get into it. I'm all interested in hearing your story.

US TV shows the Simpsons damnit. DAMN people. The Simpsons.

I can afford Anime, but most of the fans are still elite shmucks.... :)
2001-08-03 11:10:18 AM  
Evangelion...what more needs to be said other than it simply is one of the best anime shows ever. I was really taken in by it. I love Gainax's work and I can't wait until I can get some copies of FLCL! That show looks hilarious!

Clanjade: The music for EVA is impressive, no? I really, I mean REALLY like "Komm, Susser Todd" from the End of Eva movie. Just a song I totally identify with.

ja ne

2001-08-03 11:19:38 AM  
Rabid fanboys don't like Anime for its culture, or beauty. They like it because, they hear people talking about how cool so-and-so show is. Thus, if you watch that show, you are cool. Thus, posers.

Now, Otaku on the other hand, like Anime because of its beauty, story (usually, there are ones like "X" which really try to fark things up for us), and Japanese culture. You will never see something like Golden Boy produced by an American company. Hell, even the dub of Golden Boy was good (because they sounded so funny.. don't know if it was suppose to be like that). If you want pure beauty, take a look at Oh My Goddess (or Ah My Goddess, it has been advertised both ways). I tried Eva, but the story is too long, and too boring for my tastes. Hell, they have yet to release the final movie sets of Eva in the states (I believe). If I want my giant robot fix, I will watch Macross (or robotech for you fanboys (read first paragraph)). :)

Princess Monoke was a beautiful movie, with great dubbing (compared to what has been done up to that point). Spirted Away looks like a weird hybrid of Monoke and Kiki's Delivery Service. Wonder if it will have a talking cat in it....
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