Skip to content
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Mercury News)   Cars will cost thousands more, light bulbs six times as much, and electricity's price will go up 30%. But don't worry, it's for the children   (mercextra.com) divider line
    More: Sad  
•       •       •

19900 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Dec 2007 at 4:07 PM (11 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



305 Comments     (+0 »)
 


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | » | Newest | Show all

 
2007-12-26 11:16:31 AM  
And as we come closer to meeting the standards set forth today , the standards will be changed to more and more restrictive goals. As an example; today's cars are 90-95% cleaner than a decade ago, so now they want to attack the is last 10% at a cost nearly equal to what is has cost to clean up so far. If we manage to reduce this last 10% by 3/4 someone will again change the target and go for the last 3%, regardless of cost.
My idea is to enjoy the current standards for a few years until all the older, smog producers are off the road. Then reassess our needs. The agencies charged with clean air standards will never be satisfied, because to be satisfied means their jobs are done. They will be out of work.
 
2007-12-26 11:24:42 AM  
The hell with the children, I'm not going to inconvenience myself just because stupid scienticians want to destroy business.
 
2007-12-26 11:31:21 AM  
I would just like to register my complaint about CCFLs. They may be better for the environment, but I just don't like the temperature of the light.
 
2007-12-26 11:33:10 AM  
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!

How farking expensive is a light bulb, anyway? Buy some compact fluorescents and they'll last nearly forever, compared to the cheap crap you're probably buying, subby.

And if you're worried about the price of electricity, learn to turn off the lights when you leave a room. How much energy do you waste? It may actually be near 30% of your bill.
 
2007-12-26 11:41:15 AM  
At first I didn't care for their color temperature, either, but I think they've gotten a lot warmer/better balanced than they used to be. Not perfect, yet, but getting there.
 
2007-12-26 11:47:36 AM  
Mordant: m not going to inconvenience myself just because stupid scienticians want to destroy business.

FAIL.
 
2007-12-26 11:49:09 AM  
whidbey: Mordant: m not going to inconvenience myself just because stupid scienticians want to destroy business.

FAIL.



I've seen you on FARK for a while. How can you fall for our worst troll?
 
2007-12-26 12:05:19 PM  
I've basically just given up. When something like bearsfolks manages to crawl into the daylight to express itself I lose all hope for humanity. So in a way I'm serious. Why should I even try to support improving things if it's going to impact my way of life and end up being a tremendous waste of time ? It'd be worthwhile if it had a chance of going someplace, but it doesn't.
 
2007-12-26 12:24:34 PM  
Mordant: I've basically just given up. When something like bearsfolks manages to crawl into the daylight to express itself I lose all hope for humanity. So in a way I'm serious. Why should I even try to support improving things if it's going to impact my way of life and end up being a tremendous waste of time ? It'd be worthwhile if it had a chance of going someplace, but it doesn't.

Even if bearsfolks is a troll (and I'm convinced he submitted that headline, and bumped it himself to commented), diminishing returns can be a real issue that deserves being discussed. Things can't be perfect, environmentally or otherwise. There will come a point where we'll have to decide that the situation is "good enough", and concentrate on other issues that also need looked at. I'm not saying that we're anywhere near that "good enough" situation, but we're already hitting the dimishing returns phase in some places.

I work in Quality Assurance (done pharmaceutical, biotech, and currently environmental testing QA), and I know that to go from 90% to 99% perfect costs twice the amount of resources as it does to go from 50% to 90%. And going from that 90% to 99.9% costs twice as much again. (obviously the numbers are made up, since they vary from one process/product to another, but the rule still stands).

We'll have to decide when we're content with the way things are (and it will be hard, since some people are already content with how things are now, or even content with how things were years ago, before any regulations were enacted, and some people will never be content unless we're perfect, which can't happen).
 
2007-12-26 12:39:39 PM  
Nods in unison, approvingly

[image from ldesign.com too old to be available]
cpgb.org.ukView Full Size
 
2007-12-26 12:48:18 PM  
Temescal: I've seen you on FARK for a while. How can you fall for our worst troll?

Worst troll? Is sarcastic humor trolling now?
 
2007-12-26 12:49:17 PM  
Temescal: I've seen you on FARK for a while. How can you fall for our worst troll?

img.fark.net: He isn't.
 
2007-12-26 12:51:03 PM  
One way or another, we'll have to pay for it.
 
2007-12-26 12:51:51 PM  
sigdiamond2000: Temescal: I've seen you on FARK for a while. How can you fall for our worst troll?

Worst troll? Is sarcastic humor trolling now?


Nowadays, making a comment someone disagrees with is considered trolling.
 
2007-12-26 01:03:18 PM  
Well, before this thread gets completely overrun by trolls and posters sarcastically pretending to be trolls, let my try to inject at least one worthwhile post:

1. We only have one planet.
2. The extra upfront cost is VASTLY cheaper in the long run.

3. We should be investing far more in renewable energy research. I'm thinking what we really need is a damn-the-cost crash program to develop commercially viable fusion power plants ASAP. Assuming such a thing is possible (and it very likely is) it would be a technological achievement up there in importance with fire itself. AND it could probably be done with a fraction of the money we've wasted in Iraq already.
 
2007-12-26 01:03:42 PM  
timmy_the_tooth: One way or another, we'll have to pay for it I'm gonna find yar, I'm gonna gitcha gitcha gitcha one way, maybe NEXT WEEK...
 
2007-12-26 01:07:30 PM  
timmy_the_tooth: sigdiamond2000: Temescal: I've seen you on FARK for a while. How can you fall for our worst troll?

Worst troll? Is sarcastic humor trolling now?

Nowadays, making a comment someone disagrees with is considered trolling.


Making ONE "sarcastic" comment in every single political thread, right at the beginning of the thread, then not sticking around to discuss it further is what I would consider trolling, this thread being an exception more than the norm.

Also, don't confuse sarcasm and bitterness. Not saying that Mordant doesn't have all the rights in the world to be bitter, but I rarely find his posts to be sarcastic, in the proper sense of the word.
 
2007-12-26 01:09:57 PM  
Don't mind TTT...it's that Tacoma arsenic affecting his good judgment...:)
 
2007-12-26 01:12:51 PM  
sarcastic comments don't need extensive discussion
 
2007-12-26 01:14:11 PM  
You'll get over it.
 
2007-12-26 01:14:26 PM  
Riche: ... I'm thinking what we really need is a damn-the-cost crash program to develop commercially viable fusion power plants ASAP...

Whith whose money? Very few, if any companies/people/goverments want to spend a huge wad of money (maybe all they have, in a damn-the-cost program) on something that will be available and useable to everyone later at little cost. That whole "what's in it for me" mentality. Very few people will voluntarily screw themselves for the betterment of humanity. Me first, to be honest. Screw humanity. It's full of assholes (myself included)!
 
2007-12-26 01:15:20 PM  
There's plenty of room to cut out wasted expenses in cars! Let's go back to the standards of the Model T. No seatbelts, shatter proof windows, cushy dashboards etc. Heat? Radio? All wheel traction? Pfft. What do we need that for?

And bring back coal. I don't need clean air and clean water. I'll just buy the bottled stuff and drink in my air conditioned house power by cheap, dirty coal.
 
2007-12-26 01:18:53 PM  
Temescal: Not saying that Mordant doesn't have all the rights in the world to be bitter, but I rarely find his posts to be sarcastic, in the proper sense of the word.

Bitter...sarcastic...I don't care what you call it. They're usually really farking funny, and that's all I care about.

Trolls aren't killing Fark. It's the growing legion of humorless dullards.
 
2007-12-26 01:21:18 PM  
sigdiamond2000:

Trolls aren't killing Fark. It's the growing legion of humorless dullards.


Me object to that. That hurt feelings.
 
2007-12-26 01:21:23 PM  
whidbey: Don't mind TTT...it's that Tacoma arsenic affecting his good judgment...:)

THAT is a trolling comment.

But see I know Whidbey and I like Whidbey and I know he doesn't mean anything by it. AND I learned to not take internet forums seriously in 2005.

But see, that's the problem. Some people have a combination of intense optimism and unrealistic self importance which causes them to think that A) they are "adding to the debate" on a topic and B) that they are some kind of expert or that their opinion matters.

I guess what I'm saying is that I've found internet forums to be a slightly dumber version of talk radio.
 
2007-12-26 01:28:35 PM  
sigdiamond2000: Temescal: Not saying that Mordant doesn't have all the rights in the world to be bitter, but I rarely find his posts to be sarcastic, in the proper sense of the word.

Bitter...sarcastic...I don't care what you call it. They're usually really farking funny, and that's all I care about.

Trolls aren't killing Fark. It's the growing legion of humorless dullards.


You're honestly telling me that Mordant's comments never get old to you? They're always the same. I swear I sometimes feel like he's a bot reacting to specific keywords in the headline, posting one comment picked from a list of half a dozen or so (with rare variations).

Mordant, I don't mean to pick on you, and as I said, you probably have all the rights in the world to be bitter. I just don't think you're funny, and I'm not convinced you're even trying to be. It feels more like a "fark it, I'm sick of discussing this shiat" attitude. And I can relate to that. That's why I rarely post in (and even try avoid reading) political/philosophical threads nowadays. I don't think anyone's opinion has ever been swayed by anything posted in a FARK thread, ever. Of course I'd love to see a link to a thread proving me wrong. :)
 
2007-12-26 01:34:23 PM  
Temescal: Mordant, I don't mean to pick on you, and as I said

I do. His comments were full of FAIL, and I called him out on it.
 
2007-12-26 01:35:13 PM  
sigdiamond2000: Bitter...sarcastic...I don't care what you call it. They're usually really farking funny, and that's all I care about.

Trolls aren't killing Fark. It's the growing legion of humorless dullards


I don't think they're humorless but rather, authoritarians looking for a means to stifle the opposition.

It's a divided country. 20 years of "culture war" have ensured that for some Americans their identity is defined in opposition to "the other." Add in the dumbing down of America, the simplification of complex ideas, and the sloganizing of politics and basically people get insanely angry when you challenge their slogan.

Then they report you or call you a troll.
 
2007-12-26 01:38:53 PM  
Temescal: You're honestly telling me that Mordant's comments never get old to you? They're always the same. I swear I sometimes feel like he's a bot reacting to specific keywords in the headline, posting one comment picked from a list of half a dozen or so (with rare variations).

Why do you care? Put him on ignore for f*ck's sake.

I seriously don't understand this mentality.
 
2007-12-26 01:43:44 PM  
Temescal: You're honestly telling me that Mordant's comments never get old to you?

Yes, I'm honestly telling you that. Whatever his intentions, he consistently cracks me up. And that's pretty much the only metric I use to judge and classify my fellow Farkers. I really don't give a flying fark about their political views or their general demeanor.

Besides, in terms of political threads on anonymous internet forums, the bitter, fark-it attitude seems eminently more justified to me than actually trying to pretend like you care about things outside of your own comfort zone.

I'm not saying that's necessarily a healthy way to live your life in the real world, but I have a really hard time taking overly serious people seriously on the internet.

But that's just me.
 
2007-12-26 01:44:12 PM  
timmy_the_tooth: I don't think they're humorless but rather, authoritarians looking for a means to stifle the opposition.

It's a divided country. 20 years of "culture war" have ensured that for some Americans their identity is defined in opposition to "the other." Add in the dumbing down of America, the simplification of complex ideas, and the sloganizing of politics and basically people get insanely angry when you challenge their slogan.

Then they report you or call you a troll.


For the record, I've never reported anyone on FARK, or anywhere else for that matter.

Also, I've only been in the US for 8 years, so I missed more than half of that "culture war", and I don't think I was much of an active "fighter" in that war in the 8 years I was here. :)
 
2007-12-26 01:49:45 PM  
timmy_the_tooth: Temescal: You're honestly telling me that Mordant's comments never get old to you? They're always the same. I swear I sometimes feel like he's a bot reacting to specific keywords in the headline, posting one comment picked from a list of half a dozen or so (with rare variations).

Why do you care? Put him on ignore for f*ck's sake.

I seriously don't understand this mentality.


If I were to put people on ignore just because they don't amuse me, I'd have next to nothing to read on FARK. Also, Mordant sometimes (more often than not actually) makes good posts in non-political threads, and I would feel like I'm cheating myself if I were to put him on ignore.

/clear ignore list so far
//never really been offended enough to put anyone on ignore
 
2007-12-26 02:04:52 PM  
waahhhh! won't somebody think of the money!!!! waaaaahhh!!!

i ask again: do you fundie/republican/anti-science folks have a secret planet you and your offspring are planning to go to when this one is used up (difficulty: no heaven!)? seriously. even IF global warming is natural and not man-made (which most scientists think is demonstrably false), it's still happening. cars will be more expensive? here's a thought: drive your car a few years longer instead of buying a new one every time the new models come out. lightbulbs are more expensive? so the fark what. use less farking electricity. how about moving out of your 5,000 square foot mcmansion into someplace that costs less to heat.

jesus farking christ. submittwat and anyone who agrees with him is selfish, deluded and just plain farking evil.

/rant.
 
2007-12-26 02:08:03 PM  
FlashHarry: here's a thought: drive your car a few years longer instead of buying a new one every time the new models come out.

Or enact the proper legislation aimed at making cars more practical rather than luxuries.

"New models" should come out every other year at least...

Cars. Like it or not, we need a hell of lot less of them.
 
2007-12-26 02:09:08 PM  
I disagree with all of you. You are all trolls.
 
2007-12-26 02:20:54 PM  
I don't know how anyone can stick around a thread to defend themselves for too long once the thread hits the main pages. There's no way I'm wading through 100+ comments just to argue with some moron on the internet.
 
2007-12-26 02:34:42 PM  
sigdiamond2000: Trolls aren't killing Fark. It's the growing legion of humorless dullards.

I think it is a lack of small business owners that is killing fark.
 
2007-12-26 03:32:23 PM  
sigdiamond2000:

"Trolls aren't killing Fark. It's the growing legion of humorless dullards."

Hey, I am not humorless.
 
2007-12-26 04:10:30 PM  
Can we stop thinking about the children?

Please!
 
2007-12-26 04:11:06 PM  
All this talk about trolls has made me hungry.
 
2007-12-26 04:13:53 PM  
Will dogs and cats be sleeping with each other?
 
2007-12-26 04:14:27 PM  
Some people aren't going to be happy until we go back to living in caves. Even then there will be people complaining that we're destroying the environment. The earth won't be pristine until all mankind is gone.

/You off yourself first.
 
2007-12-26 04:15:09 PM  
GOSH! I could barely afford .69 light bulbs at Wal-Mart in the first place! Whatever will I do?!?!

*falls to fainting couch*

/doesn't actually know the price of light bulbs
 
2007-12-26 04:15:34 PM  
The price of fossil fuels will dictate efficiency and the prices are only going to get higher, despite what some "conservatives" like to pretend, oil is a resource that will dry up eventually.

Global warming is the pretend issue on the back of the real issue of finite energy resources..
 
2007-12-26 04:15:47 PM  
bearsfolks: And as we come closer to meeting the standards set forth today , the standards will be changed to more and more restrictive goals. As an example; today's cars are 90-95% cleaner than a decade ago, so now they want to attack the is last 10% at a cost nearly equal to what is has cost to clean up so far. If we manage to reduce this last 10% by 3/4 someone will again change the target and go for the last 3%, regardless of cost.
My idea is to enjoy the current standards for a few years until all the older, smog producers are off the road. Then reassess our needs. The agencies charged with clean air standards will never be satisfied, because to be satisfied means their jobs are done. They will be out of work.


You're right. And we should ignore everything scientists say, doctors too, teachers, politicians, religious leaders, etc. because it's their job to tell us stuff and therefore we shouldn't trust anything they say.
 
2007-12-26 04:15:50 PM  
Here's the real test of charity, helping people you'll never know for nothing in return.
 
2007-12-26 04:16:15 PM  
Chuck Wagon: sigdiamond2000: Trolls aren't killing Fark. It's the growing legion of humorless dullards.

I think it is a lack of small business owners that is killing fark.


Perhaps you're not looking in the right spots.

/small business owner
//practical environmentalist (no coal, yes to nuclear and renewables)
 
2007-12-26 04:16:33 PM  
If you want to know who is pushing "global warming" and
the reasons why...follow the $money$
 
2007-12-26 04:18:01 PM  
Mordant: The hell with the children, I'm not going to inconvenience myself just because stupid scienticians want to destroy business.

Don't worry, once people realize that oil has peaked globally, economies across the planet are going to collapse and no one is going to be able to afford what little energy IS produced. The environmentalists and "scienticians" will all get their way because billions of people are going to starve to death returning human populations to a sustainable number and everyone will be living in a pre-industrial revolution society.
 
2007-12-26 04:18:45 PM  
subby
Cars will cost thousands more


Uhhh.... of course they will!!!
When my parents bought their first car, it was about $3000 CAN (~1975 money). A 1975 Honda Civic CVCC, btw.
A 2007 Civic costs about 5.5 times as much [$17,000]

Yup. You're (obvious and) right. Cars will cost thousands more. [check mark]
 
Displayed 50 of 305 comments


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | » | Newest | Show all



This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking





On Twitter




In Other Media
Top Commented
Javascript is required to view headlines in widget.
  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report