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(ABC News)   2007: Massachusetts discusses ban on spanking. 2017: Massachusetts begs for more federal money to do something about rising juvenile crime   (thebostonchannel.com) divider line
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211 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Nov 2007 at 7:36 PM (15 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



30 Comments     (+0 »)
 
whidbey
2007-11-27 7:27:59 PM  
Ah, I love the smell of Freeperbait in the morning...
 
proteus_b
2007-11-27 7:40:18 PM  
Yeah, it won't take till 2017, in my opinion.
 
Mars232
2007-11-27 7:47:42 PM  
Nothing wrong with spanking. Most kids need it,once they get past 5-6 they shouldn't(if they do,you have already failed).

//SIT DOWN AND STUDY!!***smack***
 
Newbaca
2007-11-27 7:49:55 PM  
That's a nice logical fallacy slippery slope argument you got there Lou.
 
Swampthing in Korea
2007-11-27 7:50:34 PM  
When I was a boy, I was beaten five times every day with a belt made of thorns and broken glass, and that was when I had been good.

Don't get me started on what happened when I was naughty!
 
rppp01a
2007-11-27 7:52:56 PM  
Swampthing in Korea: When I was a boy, I was beaten five times every day with a belt made of thorns and broken glass, and that was when I had been good.

Don't get me started on what happened when I was naughty!

Hookers and blow?
 
ikanreed
2007-11-27 8:21:56 PM  
Newbaca

That's not a slippery slope argument.

It's an argument where lack of discipline among young children will lead to inappropriate activity when older. It could be wrong, but it's not a slippery slope argument.

A slippery slope argument is when one allowance will yield greater allowances later.
 
flaggboy42
2007-11-27 8:24:16 PM  
Subby gets a sammich and a six pack of Guinness.

/spanked twice, smacked once
//that was all that was neccessary
 
I Said
2007-11-27 8:27:03 PM  
flaggboy42: Subby gets a sammich and a six pack of Guinness.

/spanked twice, smacked once
//that was all that was neccessary I could afford with my allowance

You're disgusting
 
Gulper Eel
2007-11-27 8:33:32 PM  
The brilliant and sophisticated leaders of Massachusetts will have to tell the rest of us how they rid the state of all the other more dangerous forms of child abuse, thus giving them the time and resources to go after some lady giving her three-year-old a swat on the bottom for running out into traffic.

Whazzat? There's still a problem with child abuse in Massachusetts? You don't say.

Well, then Massachusetts is obviously so much smarter than the rest of us troglodytes, they've solved the problem of assholes who get single moms to give up the booty and then start in abusing her kids. No? Still a problem?

Gosh, that's shocking.
 
XTeacher
2007-11-27 8:37:44 PM  
When you spank your child, it only means that you have failed at all other avenues of discipline, but that doesn't mean that it can't be effective. However, most parents spank their children out of anger or revenge rather than as a corrective measure, and kids perceive this at a very early age.

Standing the little farkers in the corner can be pretty effective, too, you know. One minute for each year of a child's age seems like an eternity to him or her.

/I'm a father of a well-behaved three-year-old.
//I don't spank her.
 
MBA Whore
2007-11-27 8:45:30 PM  
Massachusetts is a worthless piece of shiat, nanny state that is no where near as awesome as it used to be in colonial times.

/ any other 49 > Massachusetts
// especially Missouri
 
eatin' fetus
2007-11-27 8:48:11 PM  
XTeacher: When you spank your child, it only means that you have failed at all other avenues of discipline, but that doesn't mean that it can't be effective.

You seem to think that kids don't have a mind of their own.
 
kuroi
2007-11-27 9:10:49 PM  
Whatever.

I respect Massachusetts for at least thinking and arguing about issues before they put them into effect. Unlike most other states, MA seems to listen to what studies find about what's beneficial for our society, and what's unneeded or harmful for our society.
 
Tatsumaki Senpuu-Kyaku!
2007-11-27 9:31:44 PM  
XTeacher: When you spank your child, it only means that you have failed at all other avenues of discipline, but that doesn't mean that it can't be effective. However, most parents spank their children out of anger or revenge rather than as a corrective measure, and kids perceive this at a very early age.

Well put.

As an adult and a parent, you really shouldn't ever have to resort to spanking. I mean, you're smarter than your kids, right? You should be able to manipulate (you can read that as 'emotionally blackmail', if you want) them into doing what you want without threats of violence.

That doesn't necessarily mean that when a kid really does cross the line, that a smack can't be warranted, however. The problem is lazy parents who rely on violence rather than, well, actual parenting. Assholes like this are just as responsible for delinquent kids as the ones who let their precious snowflakes run wild.
 
Driving Without Pants
2007-11-27 9:43:06 PM  
Corporal punishment only instills fear and hatred in a child while simultaneously making them more likely to be violent. It also doesn't stress why they're being punished, if it teaches them at all.

No wonder conservatives think it's such a good idea.
 
E. D. Montechizuma
2007-11-27 9:59:57 PM  
Driving Without Pants: Corporal punishment only instills fear and hatred in a child while simultaneously making them more likely to be violent. It also doesn't stress why they're being punished, if it teaches them at all.


I have this problem... and still don't like being hugged by my parents.

Odd thing is

Was I put in my place and taught how to behave ?

You becha, I had heard many other parents say to my parents how well behaved I was growing up. I was never an excellent student, but teachers always told my parents that I was far more well behaved in class in elementary school than the other kids. Never mad a fuss and was always quiet and listened to the teacher. Never bugged the teacher for water or to go to the bathroom.

But my relationship with my parents...

gone
 
Cuchulane
2007-11-28 12:07:37 AM  
Massachusetts is a worthless piece of shiat, nanny state that is no where near as awesome as it used to be in colonial times.

Well, then Massachusetts is obviously so much smarter than the rest of us troglodytes, they've solved the problem...

People that broadly generalize are generally pretty dense.

2007: Massachusetts discusses ban on spanking...which means a nurse followed all of the protocol to get a proposal to the floor of the state senate, where it will be considered then voted down. Imagine, representative government where normal citizens can make proposals to the state officials- it's downright communist!
 
davynelson
2007-11-28 12:22:03 AM  
don't be an arsehole

spanking is hitting and it's violent
and doing it to kids is shameful

i'm amazed so many people dig it
 
Driving Without Pants
2007-11-28 1:02:58 AM  
E. D. Montechizuma

Well, obviously corporal punishment keeps people in line, to an extent. If it didn't work at all, people wouldn't use it, ever. If you beat little Billy hard enough, he'll stand on his head and spit nickels. My point is that as a system of punishment, especially as a system of parental punishment towards children, it does more harm than good.

Is the order that is achieved through physical punishment that worth the cost of destroying your relationship with your child, and possibly hampering their ability to form relationships with other people? Is it worth knowing that Billy will be statistically much more likely to beat your grandchildren? Is it worth training your child to think violence is a legitimate way to get people to do what you want?

There are more humane and more effective ways of raising children that are better for the parent, for the child, and for society at large. Corporal punishment is child abuse.
 
TribeFan695
2007-11-28 2:32:11 AM  
Wow, there are actually more posts in this thread opposing spanking than supporting it.

[image from afpstudio.com too old to be available]
 
brantgoose [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2007-11-28 2:48:30 AM  
The fly in the ointment of Subby's premise, of course, is that it is the liberal upper middle classes that love that touchy-feely "time out" and "reasoning with the child" crap, while it is the brutally physical criminal classes whose children commit most of the crimes.
Love based, fear based. Liberal, Conservative. Performance-based, grammar-based. Open society, closed society. You want to know how many of the worst brats I've ever known were children of fundamentalists or preachers? ALL. Every damned one. Oh, the liberal kids were sassy but they weren't mean to the bone.
 
yarnothuntin
2007-11-28 4:49:46 AM  
Nothing wrong with spanking. And I think schools should bring back "swats". Fear keeps the children in line, Fear of this pimp hand.

I was spanked as a kid and I have a wonderful relationship with my parents so, I think blaming spanking for corrupted relationships is akin to blaming video games to shooting sprees. In other words, there was probably something else wrong with the family structure to begin with.

I laughed my a55 off the other day when a mother was trying to "reason" with her 3 yr old having a tantrum in the store. The kid just kept spinning around on the ground with the mom saying, "now hunny..."

I spanked my kid and he's fine- even now if he starts acting up, I'll threaten it and the emabarassment alone is enough to get him to straighten up.

The thing is- there is a difference between giving the kid a jolt on the butt, and beating the crap out of them.

And all you psychologists here proclaiming that spanking leads to being a violent person let me ask you- were you spanked? are you a violent person? And again whatever parent issues you have now probably have less to do with spanking and more to do with either your own psychosis or some farked up upbringing. It's a strawman argument that has absolutely no factual basis what so ever.

oh, and I don't need/appreciate the state trying to tell me how to raise my kids. I don't, however, have a problem with my neighbors or family yelling at my kid if he's acting up.
 
XTeacher
2007-11-28 7:26:29 AM  
yarnothuntin:
oh, and I don't need/appreciate the state trying to tell me how to raise my kids. I don't, however, have a problem with my neighbors or family yelling at my kid if he's acting up.

Spanking can be effective, and the state shouldn't remove it entirely from a parent's discipline toolbox. I've seen my share of kids from ages 2 to 22 who were in need of a good swat, but I'm not so sure that lack of spanking was their problem.

It is my belief that many parents spank as a result of losing their tempers and therefore do so as a result of anger and frustration. That is not really corrective for the child. A calm parent who explains to his child why he's is about to spank him (as my parents did to me) is much more effective if spanking is to be done at all.

I consider myself to be a fairly strict parent. I choose not to spank, and my kid minds me pretty damned well.
 
pass_the_bacon
2007-11-28 8:37:47 AM  
Oh lord, I'm glad I'm getting out of this state in a year, 'course we're moving to fark's favorite state so maybe that's a push?
 
bigmatty87
2007-11-28 9:43:21 AM  
I don't understand how people can be so vehemently against spanking. I think it is a tool that should be used sparingly with young children, mainly after direct disobedience, in order to show them that they are not in charge. Sometimes immediate negative feedback is necessary to get this point across.

Corporal punishment has been used in this country for generations. And I don't think anyone will disagree that it has been becoming less and less the norm, while crime and misbehaving children have been on the rise.

It isn't something that should be used every day, but it shouldn't be abandoned either.

I was spanked on several occaisons, I now realize that my parents did it in order to overcome an obstinance in me that was bourne out of hardheadedness. I thought that I was smarter and that I could do whatever I wanted. They proved that I couldn't.

The difficult and most important part is to always let your children know, even when they are being spanked, that you love them, have their best interest at heart, and are trying to teach them to be better people.
 
Murkanen
2007-11-28 9:49:30 AM  
Psychologically, spanking is only effective as a punishment until about age 3 or 4, after then it stops being a punishment and just encourages fear and distrust the parents. Not only this, but if you have a kid whose got it in his/her head that any attention is good attention then all you'll be doing by spanking said kid is giving them exactly what they want. Granted most people just want the behaviour to stop, but if it stops for the wrong reasons you deal with issues far worse than a broken lamp.

/agrees with the "if you have to resort to violence to get your kid to behave you fail as a parent" sentiment
 
Murkanen
2007-11-28 10:03:54 AM  
bigmatty87:

And I don't think anyone will disagree that it has been becoming less and less the norm, while crime and misbehaving children have been on the rise.

Actually, violent crime has been steadily decreasing for many many years where male youths are concerned. Violent crime committed by female youths is on the rise, however, but not at a pace that matches the decrease in violent crime committed by male youths. I haven't seen how it will vary between class populations, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was the lower class who were committing most of the crimes, while the rate of crime had dropped among middle and upper classes. I also wouldn't be surprised if the crime rate dropped considerably after they hit their twenties, as experimentation with class and culture (running with the "bad boys" and such) begins to lose its fun factor.
 
TribeFan695
2007-11-28 10:19:16 AM  
bigmatty87:
Corporal punishment has been used in this country for generations. And I don't think anyone will disagree that it has been becoming less and less the norm, while crime and misbehaving children have been on the rise.


I beg to differ


Crime in the United States has been in a steady decline since the early 90s. You just think it's on the rise because it's been so propogated by the media.
 
MisterRPG
2007-11-28 11:50:13 AM  
One of my pervy childhood friends enjoyed being spanked by his parents. Just goes to show you that there isn't a universal way to discipline children.
 
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