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(Some Guy)   More cities using GPS to keep employees from using cars for personal trips; insist it's to help maintain the cars better, not spy on people. Bonus: Town in story saved 14,000 gallons of gas in three months   (apnews.myway.com) divider line
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4725 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Nov 2007 at 8:50 PM (15 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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SmokeBreak
2007-11-16 6:37:37 PM  
Glad to know the 4th Amendment ever mattered.

NOT!
 
paulandorder
2007-11-16 6:37:42 PM  
I want for my company. Any recommendations?
 
paulandorder
2007-11-16 6:50:51 PM  
Right, Smokebreak. The 4th Amendment Right to squander the taxpayers hard earned money. The future is here nicotine boy, deal with it.
 
Asa Phelps
2007-11-16 6:55:42 PM  
Well, limiting the mileage on the vehicles sure does make the maintenance cheaper.
 
eddyatwork
2007-11-16 7:11:04 PM  
I don't see a problem considering the car belongs to the city and is for work purposes only. Now if you had a company car as a benefit, that would be different.
 
kingMountain
2007-11-16 7:15:54 PM  
they should have been doing this a long time ago, or as early as it was possible anyways. i don't want my tax money going towards some city councilman's vacation to luray caverns.
 
Asa Phelps
2007-11-16 7:26:24 PM  
Like any new monitoring method, it takes a while for the big-picture guys to come to the realization that if it was ok before, it should probably be ok now.

Like when they started doing so much video surveilance in the UK - they arrested a whole lot of people for nonsense like spitting in the street before the cops got lazy again and started prioritizing things in a more normal fashion.

Of course, some people are just assholes, and will use any monitoring method to treat their employees like slaves.

The article mentions a chick who got fired for going home for a long lunch when she felt sick - this is an example of working for an asshole. Any sane manager would have approved of it if they'd just been told "hey, I feel like puking. my lunch break is up. I'm gonna go home and lie down. I'll call you and tell you if i'm gonna finish my shift."

But an asshole boss would have been an asshole about it.

So, this technology allows assholes to be bigger assholes - just like most other technologies.
 
Durendal
2007-11-16 8:15:12 PM  
SmokeBreak, you're a dumbass. I think the government has every right to dictate how far employees can drive their government-owned cars. But please, I'm in the mood for a laugh, so explain how that's somehow a violation of the first amendment, which applies only to, you know, private property.
 
Megain
2007-11-16 8:32:12 PM  
SmokeBreak: Glad to know the 4th Amendment ever mattered.

Durendal: But please, I'm in the mood for a laugh, so explain how that's somehow a violation of the first amendment, which applies only to, you know, private property.

well, that's different
 
Ebenator
2007-11-16 8:53:33 PM  
Who's side are you on, Subby?
 
DVD
2007-11-16 8:53:51 PM  
I'd say it was a violation of the 18th amendment... if I could remember what that was...
 
fuzzycuffs
2007-11-16 8:54:49 PM  
It's not your car, you can expect your employer to do anything they want with their asset.

My work provides me with a laptop. I must expect that they are in the administrators group and can see what I'm doing at any time.

If you have a problem with that, buy your own car/pc/whatever.
 
Oldiron_79
2007-11-16 8:55:46 PM  
eddyatwork: I don't see a problem considering the car belongs to the city and is for work purposes only. Now if you had a company car as a benefit, that would be different.

I agree.
 
kilgorn
2007-11-16 8:57:08 PM  
DVD
I'd say it was a violation of the 18th amendment... if I could remember what that was...

The 18th amendment prohibits the number 13...
 
h to the 'ojo
2007-11-16 9:02:24 PM  
SmokeBreak: Glad to know the 4th Amendment ever mattered.

NOT!

I'm with you on that brudda.

P.S.
Who knew that so many Chi-Coms could both read english and post on fark from behind their great firewall of freedom. We're not interested in what you have to sell, go phone Pooty-poot instead
 
picturescrazy
2007-11-16 9:03:08 PM  
Wait, don't I have the right not to incriminate myself thanks to the 5th? So then I should have the right to disable the GPS when I use the government owned vehicles to buy my drugs and black market concrete duck lawn ornaments.
 
Man On Pink Corner
2007-11-16 9:05:22 PM  
simpsonfan Fark the unions. If these lazy government 'workers' would actually do their jobs instead of doing personal errands, they wouldn't have to worry. Employee/government, you are being paid to do your job, not your own personal stuff. If I owned a company and the union refused to work with the devices, I'd say, fine, go get other jobs. I'll replace them with people who will actually work. Work vehicle, work. If not, you should be fired.

To be fair, you can't have that attitude and simultaneously be entitled to complain about the crabby, indolent service you get at the DMV or post office. If you crack the whip, only orcs will work for you.
 
Wil_Mahfingahdo
2007-11-16 9:05:26 PM  
My company has this and it doesn't seem to matter. The tog twerps in charge were really gung-ho over it for about three months since it was a new toy, now they never check it. We are more exact in out hours now and we do use it for personal things less. The biggest savings are that we don't leave it running anymore listening to the radio.
 
KrispyKritter
2007-11-16 9:05:41 PM  
Once had a job with a company vehicle. They didn't care about off-hours use. Their concern was that mileage between accounts was logged so they could bill for travel/time cost.

It was sweet. Played golf or drank in stripper bars 3 - 5 times a week.
 
Bob Down
2007-11-16 9:06:43 PM  
The Co. I work for just brought in a policy to allow personal use within the greater city area, with Co. fuel card. Suck it
 
outatime
2007-11-16 9:08:34 PM  
They've been doing this for years, especially trucking companies.

Asa Phelps: So, this technology allows assholes to be bigger assholes - just like most other technologies.

And that's a pretty good explanation of how it's worked out so far. If you've got a normal, reasonable boss, they'll probably let that lunch break you went ten minutes over slide. If you've got a psychotic dickhead for a boss, they're going to freak out over every wrong turn you make.
 
jaymzz
2007-11-16 9:09:09 PM  
fuzzycuffs: My work provides me with a laptop. I must expect that they are in the administrators group and can see what I'm doing at any time.

If you have a problem with that, buy your own car/pc/whatever.

Amen! That's why I have my own PC at home!

Well, that and the company makes me run Windows.

/IT still refuses to certify Vista after a year
//insert Nelson graphic
///insert graphic of Bill Gates having a treasure bath
 
spyyder
2007-11-16 9:11:32 PM  
picturescrazy: Wait, don't I have the right not to incriminate myself thanks to the 5th? So then I should have the right to disable the GPS when I use the government owned vehicles to buy my drugs and black market concrete duck lawn ornaments.

you also have the right to be unemployed. I wish some of you would use the constitution the defend the endless spiral our country is in, instead of defending your weekend runs to the strip bar.
 
Survive1999
2007-11-16 9:12:46 PM  
They ought to put a GPS chip in the butt of every road commision employee, might actually get some work out of them.
 
Odd Bird
2007-11-16 9:12:58 PM  
Ebenator: Who's side are you on, Subby?

Does every headline have to be confrontational?

I'm in favor of the GPS installations, provided the vehicle users are made aware of the devices. Sweeping Generalization; the NY mentality is best described as "it's my right, I deserve it, so friggin what?" (lived there 20 years, loved being there, glad to get out of there).
Would I bend the business-use-only rules if I wasn't being monitored?
Are you reading this at work?
 
Odd Bird
2007-11-16 9:13:33 PM  
/not subby
 
jhayner
2007-11-16 9:14:11 PM  
I work for a telephone company and the QTR after they installed GPS tracking for all company vehicles, we suddenly had a 27% increase in productivity, overtime was reduced by 15% or so and we drove less miles.

As an employee I fully understand why my employer would want to track the movements of their assets. It really cut into my on-the-job Xmas shopping time though.

If I had vehicles, I would track them... In fact, I do.

/APRS
//look it up
 
Ypsitanzi
2007-11-16 9:17:46 PM  
I worked for a local cable company who put GPS devices in all of their vans. Of course I didn't like it because I wanted to be lazy once in awhile and sleep in a parking lot but I 100% agree with it. It's their van, their time, and their money. I'm expected to do the job I was hired to do and they have every right to watch where THEIR van is. They also allowed us to take the vans home but made sure we knew that any personal travel with it off-the-clock was strictly prohibited. Again, I agree with this rule although sometimes I wished against it.

The best part was that the shop manager was a down to earth guy and knew that we would sneak a nap or a quick trip to the party store now and then and wouldn't bother us about it unless it got out of control. It was the perfect balance.

I guess what I'm getting at is that I agree with it. I'd want the same thing for my property if I was the boss and responsible for it.

/Worked for WOW Cable in the Detroit area.
//Actually worked for 180 Connect, a subcontractor for WOW.
///WOW is way better than Comcas.
////Done with the slashies for now.
 
Smidge204
2007-11-16 9:22:26 PM  
SmokeBreak: Glad to know the 4th Amendment ever mattered.

NOT!


"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." (Emphasis mine)

So um... what part of this, exactly, grants an individual the right to use someone else's property for a purpose other than which it was loaned to them for?

More specifically, how does this prohibit the owner of certain property from making sure the people he lends it to aren't abusing it?

If this was about law enforcement randomly bugging cars and tracking them without warrants, then I'd be right there with you...
=Smidge=
 
HAMMERTOE
2007-11-16 9:25:28 PM  
Around the corner from my house, there are two police cars. 2 police officers, married, who both get to take a police car home. Guess who pays for all that gas. Bonus: they're both deputies from the next county over, and one of these cars is a D.A.R.E. SUV.

Is there any perk our government won't give itself at our expense?
 
Molavian
2007-11-16 9:30:06 PM  
GPS Blocker (new window)
 
lajimi [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2007-11-16 9:31:33 PM  
I used to pull the fuse out when I wanted to "hide" somewhere or take a break. The particular tracking system we used would show you stationary wherever the unit went dead. Only got asked about it once. My answer......"GP WHAT? I don't know what you mean."
 
castufari
2007-11-16 9:33:12 PM  
I'm dealing with this now at work. Gas expenditures are up double from the last fiscal year. We're not getting more funding for personal car use so it's time to see how people are using their cars. We have 5 state cars but not everyone will drive one.

I developed a spreadsheet so people have to log where they go, when they arrived/left, how many miles. We rolled it out, they biatched about how it was unfair. Fine, if you're driving 150/miles day on your car for work we need to see why. We made a change to the forms that has them enter the client name.

Wow, talk about a drop in driving. One user was putting 100/miles day on her car. After the new system was in place she's down to 10 or 15. Instead of "going to a visit" she has to put the name of the kid down so we can compare that to what they bill for. In the old system she was visiting 5 families per day but wasn't billing - because she was never there. Now she's being watched.

One user (who left before she got canned for abuse) thought it was draconian and too "big brothery". No, it's called accountability. It's not your money to piss away.

/has a state car
//doesn't take it anywhere except for work
 
lajimi [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2007-11-16 10:09:10 PM  
HAMMERTOE: Around the corner from my house, there are two police cars. 2 police officers, married, who both get to take a police car home. Guess who pays for all that gas. Bonus: they're both deputies from the next county over, and one of these cars is a D.A.R.E. SUV.

Is there any perk our government won't give itself at our expense?

Accountability?
 
Spade
2007-11-16 10:23:27 PM  
HAMMERTOE: Around the corner from my house, there are two police cars. 2 police officers, married, who both get to take a police car home. Guess who pays for all that gas. Bonus: they're both deputies from the next county over, and one of these cars is a D.A.R.E. SUV.

Is there any perk our government won't give itself at our expense?

I KNOW.

I know a guy who takes him his state issued SUV and drives it nearly everywhere! ARGH GOVERNMENT PERKS.

Of course he's on call 24/7 and will get fired if he isn't within arms reach of his blackberry at all times so he can drive his issued truck where ever ordered.
 
Seige101
2007-11-16 10:23:37 PM  
14,000 gallons at $3.00/gal over the course of 3 months = $42000 * 4 quarters in a year $168,000 not to mention lost time.
 
Lusiphur
2007-11-16 10:26:36 PM  
SmokeBreak: Glad to know the 4th Amendment ever mattered.

How does the 4th amendment remotely apply? Does no one actually take the time to really read the constitution? Oh, wait, I forgot about section 4, paragraph C, line VIIX: "The government shall in no way make their employees accountable for dicking around with government property, nor shall it restrict people from using tax-payer money for personal reasons, ever, because that would be so unfair."
 
Placenta for Breakfast
2007-11-16 10:30:14 PM  
SmokeBreak: Glad to know the 4th Amendment ever mattered.

NOT!

Uh.... how does this even apply in this situation?
 
Placenta for Breakfast
2007-11-16 10:35:05 PM  
True story.

I moved back to Florida in 1992 when they had that "impact fee", basically $500 plus regular fees to register your car. You had 10 business days to register your car in Florida. On day 11 I had a ticket. The woman who signed the ticket signed her name VERY legibly. I saw her in uniform (the Florida HSMV) and saw her name tag at the store one day. She lived very close to where I lived I saw where she parked. I started seeing her car all over town, even when she was out of uniform and had her kids in the car. I decided that was enough. I called and reported it. I assumed nothing would be done. In a day or two the car was gone from her driveway and I never saw it again. Not sure what happened.
 
feckingmorons [TotalFark]
2007-11-16 10:36:48 PM  
SmokeBreak: Glad to know the 4th Amendment ever mattered.

NOT!
Not when you are getting paid for it. It is 'our' money don't you think you should be able to find out how people are spending money you are forced to give them?
 
feckingmorons [TotalFark]
2007-11-16 10:44:48 PM  
Smidge204: SmokeBreak: Glad to know the 4th Amendment ever mattered.

NOT!


"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." (Emphasis mine)

So um... what part of this, exactly, grants an individual the right to use someone else's property for a purpose other than which it was loaned to them for?

More specifically, how does this prohibit the owner of certain property from making sure the people he lends it to aren't abusing it?

If this was about law enforcement randomly bugging cars and tracking them without warrants, then I'd be right there with you...
=Smidge=

The argument that the history of your movements is your property certainly can be made. In cases of rental cars where things like that have been logged without disclosing it to the renter there have been occasions of civil litigation - however that is of course not a violation of the 4th amendment because only the government can violate the Constitution.

If the city wanted to use a workers personal GPS equipped mobile phone (not a city owned phone) to track an employee that certainly would require a order from a court or absolutely be in violation of the 4th. However since it is a city car, and city equiptment, and on city time the employees have little recourse.


Certainly the argument can be made, but it is a waste of time.
 
bighairyguy [TotalFark]
2007-11-16 11:00:39 PM  
Seige101: 14,000 gallons at $3.00/gal over the course of 3 months = $42000 * 4 quarters in a year $168,000 not to mention lost time.

That's like 13,600 gallons Canadian, isn't it?
 
feckingmorons [TotalFark]
2007-11-16 11:09:13 PM  
HAMMERTOE: Around the corner from my house, there are two police cars. 2 police officers, married, who both get to take a police car home. Guess who pays for all that gas. Bonus: they're both deputies from the next county over, and one of these cars is a D.A.R.E. SUV.

Is there any perk our government won't give itself at our expense?

Take home cars are generally beneficial for police departments. Years ago the cars were used two or three shifts per day, now that is generally not the case they are parked most of the day except when one person is using them. Sure there are some fleet cars for new people, cars in the shop, extra duty call ins and things like that. But for the most part if you have 200 cops you will have 200ish cars. Some don't need one all the time, some take one home, some use different vehicles to set up those cool hooker stings. Of course this won't work in NYC, but it actually started in Indianapolis - and is often called the Indianapolis plan.

There have been studies that say that is reduces the wear and tear on the cars, that cops that get to take their cars home take better care of them because they are 'their' cars. I'm not certain of those, but they could be true.


It does offer some other benefits as well. The officers are immediatly available if there is some need to call them in. They can leave their driveway with their siren blaring, rather than drive to the police station in their cars, load their stuff into a fleet car, and then set off when the crap hits the fan.

It also may deter criminals from targeting your neighborhood. I would be happy if the cops that lived near me got to park their cop cars on my street.
 
erupt2001
2007-11-16 11:16:36 PM  
Bonus: Town in story saved 14,000 gallons of gas in three months

I like the img.fark.net tag for that part.
 
frencil
2007-11-16 11:23:11 PM  
We don't need GPS devices in our city cars. We have four local network affiliates that follow us to see what we're up to.
 
MindStalker
2007-11-16 11:38:38 PM  
Bob Down: You know why companies do that don't you?

If they give you a car and pay for your gas, you personally save say 500 dollars a month or so. They can actually pay you close to that much less on your wages, and they can then
1. Write the 500 off as a business expense.
2. Pay less SS and income tax as your making less.
3. You pay less income tax too.

Now I think technically perks like this do have SOME taxes on them, but its much less. Really its a win-win anyways. Only negative is when people abuse it and put massive miles on it for no reason, but I assume there are policies in place??
 
jackbooty
2007-11-16 11:42:54 PM  
Some of you people.. these aren't personal cars, your money is paying for their gas. You think it is OK for a someone to use a car that is supplied for official use to go running all over the place and rack up gas receipts?

But go ahead, be drama queens and cry about the 4th amendment and communism. If you can't see the difference you are in your own little world anyway and there is no convincing you otherwise.
 
picturescrazy
2007-11-16 11:43:05 PM  
spyyder: picturescrazy: Wait, don't I have the right not to incriminate myself thanks to the 5th? So then I should have the right to disable the GPS when I use the government owned vehicles to buy my drugs and black market concrete duck lawn ornaments.

you also have the right to be unemployed. I wish some of you would use the constitution the defend the endless spiral our country is in, instead of defending your weekend runs to the strip bar.

I was hoping it was obvious that I wasn't being serious. That's why I put in the thing about the black market concrete duck lawn ornaments... you know, to show I wasn't being very serious. I guess it didn't work.
 
SilentStrider
2007-11-17 12:32:36 AM  
can't say i can argue. The car belongs to the city, not to the employee, and its in the city's best interest to make sure their money isn't wasted.
 
Gyrfalcon [TotalFark]
2007-11-17 12:40:07 AM  
Here's an idea: If you need to run an errand, or get sick on company time, just tell your boss, hey I need to run to the pharmacy or else I'm going to puke all over my workstation.

If your boss is cool, then you'll be able to leave. If your boss is an a-hole, well, then you have a really good reason to puke all over your workstation.

Either way, you win.
 
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