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(Wall Street Journal)   The rumor that Reagan started his 1980 campaign with a speech courting white racists is easily debunked by 10 minutes of research. So of course, it's being printed as fact by left-wing commentators nationwide   (opinionjournal.com) divider line
    More: Interesting  
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1344 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 Nov 2007 at 8:03 PM (15 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2007-11-12 2:57:56 PM  
B-b-b-but ... Carter!
 
2007-11-12 3:09:25 PM  
Rumors aside, Reagan was still an assclown.
 
2007-11-12 3:51:18 PM  
Yes, we know you're a victim of the left-wing. Have a cookie and go play on the swings until dinnertime.

oh, and try not to play with dog poop this time, or at least wash your hands before you come in.
 
2007-11-12 4:24:48 PM  
Liberals will never let facts get in the way of a bad argument.
 
2007-11-12 4:55:56 PM  
The Reaganites then had an internal debate over whether to do the Urban League speech and then go to the fair, or to do the fair first. They decided to do the fair first, believing it would send the wrong message to go straight from the Urban League to Philadelphia, Miss.

.................

Brooks concedes that it was "callous, at least, to use the phrase 'states' rights' in any context in Philadelphia


So everyone in Reagan's team knew there was a racial element to the events that was unavoidable and his use of the phrase "states' rights" is seen, even by his defenders, as regrettable but this is still a "liberal smear"? Riiiiiight.

Meanwhile, in Bittburg........
 
2007-11-12 5:28:15 PM  
Attention subby: Reagan is dead. Get over it. Shouldn't you be focusing your efforts on trying to defend the current President?
 
2007-11-12 5:42:03 PM  
jerry2a: Attention subby: Reagan is dead. Get over it. Shouldn't you be focusing your efforts on trying to defend the current President?

It would be simpler to build a time machine.
 
2007-11-12 6:34:11 PM  
jerry2a: Attention subby: Reagan is dead. Get over it. Shouldn't you be focusing your efforts on trying to defend the current President?

How do you defend the indefensible?
 
2007-11-12 6:38:05 PM  
Reagan will never be forgiven for defeating communism.
 
2007-11-12 6:42:48 PM  
ndotseth: Liberals will never let facts get in the way of a bad argument.

Unlike the GOP, who just lie every time they open their fat farking mouths.

fark the farking right farking wing. You farking suck.
 
2007-11-12 6:49:53 PM  
SoxSweepAgain: ndotseth: Liberals will never let facts get in the way of a bad argument.

Unlike the GOP, who just lie every time they open their fat farking mouths.

fark the farking right farking wing. You farking suck.


Find me a candidate who'll lower my taxes, cut spending, get rid of the ENTIRE patriot act, kick RIAA in the 'nads, slap the NSA upside the head, empty gimo, and repeal the DMCA and i'll vote for them.

I'll even compromise - you can have your gay marrage so long as we get to rewrite the tax code so as to not punish people for being fiscally responsible. You can have your stem cell research if we get rid of anti-discrimination and 'hate crime' laws. Hell, I'll even let you get rid of 'corporate welfare' so long as we crack down on illegal immigration.
 
2007-11-12 7:16:40 PM  
Bill_Wick's_Friend: Brooks concedes that it was "callous, at least, to use the phrase 'states' rights' in any context in Philadelphia

Meanwhile, it's interesting that Paul Krugman's and Bob Herbert's own colleagues at the New York Times are accusing both of them of deliberately and inexcusably distorting the facts.
 
2007-11-12 7:21:44 PM  
from another fark headline:

The Guardian breaks down the "China bans Bible" story and how it's easier to put out a forest fire with a squirt gun than it is to quell an Internet rumor (new window)

But hey, if you want to go blame those darned liberals, go right ahead.
 
2007-11-12 7:42:08 PM  
I'm just waiting for Afternoon Delight and "there's no hate like liberal hate."
 
2007-11-12 7:53:31 PM  
There's no Haight like Ashbury/Haight!

/preemptive?
 
2007-11-12 8:06:12 PM  
Wasn't it the Reagan administration that coined the term "Cadillac Welfare Queens"?

Hmm. Sounds race neutral. Yeah.
 
2007-11-12 8:09:27 PM  
Weaver95: Reagan will never be forgiven for defeating communism.

I'm thinking that China might end up being as much of, if not a bigger PITA militarily and economically than the Soviet Union ever was. So...Regan only gets partial credit on this one from me.

Of course, he defeated Communism by putting the country into debt so deep that we'll likely never be in the black, so there's always that, too.
 
2007-11-12 8:10:03 PM  
Control_this: Wasn't it the Reagan administration that coined the term "Cadillac Welfare Queens"?

I seem to recall it was actually Rush Limbaugh who coined that phrase...but I could be mistaken.
 
2007-11-12 8:11:31 PM  
The best way for a war criminal to die is shiatting himself, terrified that he doesn't even know who he is, constantly losing the badly needed control he craved in his prime, this was Reagan in his twilight years of Alzheimer's. He more than paid the price.
 
2007-11-12 8:11:45 PM  
Weaver95: SoxSweepAgain: ndotseth:


Find me a candidate who'll lower my taxes, cut spending, get rid of the ENTIRE patriot act, kick RIAA in the 'nads, slap the NSA upside the head, empty gimo, and repeal the DMCA and i'll vote for them.

I'll even compromise - you can have your gay marriage so long as we get to rewrite the tax code so as to not punish people for being fiscally responsible. You can have your stem cell research if we get rid of anti-discrimination and 'hate crime' laws. Hell, I'll even let you get rid of 'corporate welfare' so long as we crack down on illegal immigration.


I second that motion.
 
2007-11-12 8:13:03 PM  
Weaver95: SoxSweepAgain: ndotseth: Liberals will never let facts get in the way of a bad argument.

Unlike the GOP, who just lie every time they open their fat farking mouths.

fark the farking right farking wing. You farking suck.

Find me a candidate who'll lower my taxes, cut spending, get rid of the ENTIRE patriot act, kick RIAA in the 'nads, slap the NSA upside the head, empty gimo, and repeal the DMCA and i'll vote for them.

I'll even compromise - you can have your gay marrage so long as we get to rewrite the tax code so as to not punish people for being fiscally responsible. You can have your stem cell research if we get rid of anti-discrimination and 'hate crime' laws. Hell, I'll even let you get rid of 'corporate welfare' so long as we crack down on illegal immigration.


Newsletter please.

/except the hate crime thing...
 
2007-11-12 8:18:17 PM  
Who heard of this and I lean a lil more liberal than moderate ?
 
2007-11-12 8:18:28 PM  
Weaver95: Find me a candidate who'll lower my taxes, cut spending, get rid of the ENTIRE patriot act, kick RIAA in the 'nads, slap the NSA upside the head, empty gimo, and repeal the DMCA and i'll vote for them.

Listen to you playing hard to get. You already voted for Bush, so half of the things you just listed as requirements to earn your vote are clearly bullshiat.

Seriously, are you even capable of telling the truth?
 
2007-11-12 8:18:36 PM  
Control_this: Wasn't it the Reagan administration that coined the term "Cadillac Welfare Queens"?

Google search of "Cadillac Welfare Queens" + Reagan yields 38 hits.
Lots of FAILure there...

Now, a google search of "Welfare Queen" + Reagan yields about 23,700 hits.
I'm thinking that your desire to get "Cadillac" in there was doomed.

Hender: I seem to recall it was actually Rush Limbaugh who coined that phrase...but I could be mistaken.

Sorry, but a google search of "Cadillac Welfare Queen" + Limbaugh yields only 8 hits.

/Just drop the Cadillac part, sheesh, it's like you guys think only minorities drive Caddys.
 
2007-11-12 8:18:39 PM  
This is a counter to a recent Krugman editiorial, which I can't find right now, but it included a lot of information about Reagan's coded racism, I can't remember if this specific speach was in it, but if it was this is still a poor counter.
 
2007-11-12 8:19:33 PM  
Weaver95:
Find me a candidate who'll lower my taxes, cut spending, get rid of the ENTIRE patriot act, kick RIAA in the 'nads, slap the NSA upside the head, empty gimo, and repeal the DMCA and i'll vote for them.

I'll even compromise - you can have your gay marrage so long as we get to rewrite the tax code so as to not punish people for being fiscally responsible. You can have your stem cell research if we get rid of anti-discrimination and 'hate crime' laws. Hell, I'll even let you get rid of 'corporate welfare' so long as we crack down on illegal immigration.


You realize that you are saying we need to find a political party to vote for besides the republicans, the democrats, the greens, and the commies, ...in fact most all current political parties.
 
2007-11-12 8:21:05 PM  
Descartes:

Bullshiat. The Cadillac was an integral part of the 'welfare queen' meme. Sure they didn't actually call them 'cadillac welfare queens' but whenever they described said queen, they were invariably driving a caddy.
 
2007-11-12 8:21:43 PM  
Well Bush did kick off his campaign at Bobby Jones U
 
2007-11-12 8:23:39 PM  
The Why Not Guy: Weaver95: Find me a candidate who'll lower my taxes, cut spending, get rid of the ENTIRE patriot act, kick RIAA in the 'nads, slap the NSA upside the head, empty gimo, and repeal the DMCA and i'll vote for them.

Listen to you playing hard to get. You already voted for Bush, so half of the things you just listed as requirements to earn your vote are clearly bullshiat.

Seriously, are you even capable of telling the truth?


You know, people are allowed to learn from their mistakes and to change positions later in life.
 
2007-11-12 8:24:32 PM  
Weaver95
Reagan will never be forgiven for defeating communism.

Actually, I'll never forgive him for Iran-Contra. I don't think it's any exaggeration to call that the most criminal act of any president since the founding of the nation. Selling arms to an enemy nation, and funneling the cash to incite rebellion in the 3rd world, both in direct violation of federal law, it doesn't really get much worse than that.
 
2007-11-12 8:24:48 PM  
Tainted1:
You know, people are allowed to learn from their mistakes and to change positions later in life.


Flip flopper.
 
2007-11-12 8:25:28 PM  
Sum Dum Gai: Actually, I'll never forgive him for Iran-Contra. I don't think it's any exaggeration to call that the most criminal act of any president since the founding of the nation. Selling arms to an enemy nation, and funneling the cash to incite rebellion in the 3rd world, both in direct violation of federal law, it doesn't really get much worse than that.

THIS!!!
 
2007-11-12 8:25:32 PM  
Reagan told the story about the welfare lady picking up her check driving a Cadillac
 
2007-11-12 8:25:36 PM  
Seabon: Bullshiat. The Cadillac was an integral part of the 'welfare queen' meme. Sure they didn't actually call them 'cadillac welfare queens' but whenever they described said queen, they were invariably driving a caddy.

Then you should have no trouble finding proof.
 
2007-11-12 8:25:59 PM  
Reagan will never be forgiven for defeating communism.

Lech Walesa & Pope John Paul are due far more credit than Reagan. Militarily speaking the USSR was a paper tiger.
 
2007-11-12 8:26:39 PM  
Myth: There are Welfare Queens driving Welfare Cadillacs.

Fact: Reagan made up this story.

Summary

Reagan's story of a Welfare Queen driving a Welfare Cadillac was apocryphal. Even so, there is no evidence that welfare cheating is a significant problem; besides, individual welfare payments are too small for recipients to live well.

Argument

Conservative politicians have a talent for telling memorable anecdotes that capture the essence of their beliefs on any particular issue. One of the most enduring of these came from Ronald Reagan on the subject of welfare. He cited a Chicago "Welfare Queen" who had ripped off $150,000 from the government, using 80 aliases, 30 addresses, a dozen social security cards, and four fictional dead husbands. The country was outraged; Reagan dutifully promised to roll back welfare; and ever since, the "Welfare Queen" driving her "Welfare Cadillac" has become permanently lodged in American political folklore.

Unfortunately, like most great conservative anecdotes, it wasn't really true. The media searched for this welfare cheat in the hopes of interviewing her, and discovered that she didn't even exist.

As a bit of class warfare, however, it was brilliant. It diverted public attention from insider traders in their limousines to Welfare Queens in their Cadillacs, even though the former were stealing thousands of times more from the American people than the latter. Just one example of the cost of white collar crime would become apparent a few years later, when President Bush bailed out the Savings & Loans industry with $500 billion of the taxpayer's money -- enough to fund 20 years of federal AFDC.

Questions of class warfare aside, there is no evidence that there is a significant problem with welfare cheating. In 1991 less than 5 percent of all welfare benefits went to persons who were not entitled to them, and this figure includes errors committed by the welfare agency. (1)

Nor are people getting rich off welfare. The two largest welfare programs are Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) and food stamps. In 1992, the average yearly AFDC family payment was $4,572, and food stamps for a family of three averaged $2,469, for a total of $7,041. (2) In that year, the poverty level for a mother with two children was $11,186. (3) Thus, these two programs paid only 63 percent of the poverty level, and 74 percent of a minimum wage job. There are other welfare programs, of course, but they either pay a minuscule fraction of these two programs, or, if larger, are collected by only a small percentage of welfare recipients. The typical welfare recipient remains among the poorest members of society.

Return to Overview

Endnotes:

1. Figures provided to the 1994 Green Book, U.S. House Ways and Means Committee, by the Administration for Children and Families, U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.

2. AFDC figures from U.S. Social Security Administration. Food Stamp figures from U.S. Department of Agriculture, "Annual Historical Review of FNS Programs" and unpublished data.

3. U.S. Bureau of the Census, Poverty in the United States, Series P-60, No. 185, 1993.
 
2007-11-12 8:26:43 PM  
Weaver95: Reagan will never be forgiven for defeating communism.

Because Gorbachev, the Russian people and the fact that Communism, well, SUCKED, had nothing to do with it. GO USA!
 
2007-11-12 8:27:14 PM  
Bill_Wick's_Friend
Meanwhile, in Bitburg...

I was there!
 
2007-11-12 8:27:19 PM  
LIBS ruin everything!

We critical thinking conservatives would never stoop to such easily-disproved bullcrap.
 
2007-11-12 8:29:16 PM  
Link (new window)

Definition 3, second usage example

She deprived her children of necessities and was able to buy herself a new Cadillac and a new house. Zaquina was, indeed, a welfare queen.
 
2007-11-12 8:29:34 PM  
So... Reagan went to Philadelphia(Miss), and spoke about returning schools and taxes back to the states in specific, and about states rights in general. When then (more than now) calls of states rights were directly appealing to racists.

And the problem is... he did other things there too? Gee, who would have figured a politician would cover more than one topic.

Ah well, it's always easier to obfuscate than to identify and embrace the obvious. Go WSJ, go David Brooks!
 
2007-11-12 8:29:48 PM  
Seabon: Myth: There are Welfare Queens driving Welfare Cadillacs.

Fact: Reagan made up this story.


Ummm, no where in your story does it say that Reagan said she drove away in a Cadillac.

Come on man, Reagan was hated by his opponents. If he said that, it would be plastered everywhere.
 
2007-11-12 8:30:02 PM  
Riiight, even though no liberals are saying it... Some opinion conservative writer has nothing to slander liberals about so he pulls something out of his ass.

And, why in hell would anyone bring it up after 27 years? Seriously.
 
2007-11-12 8:30:02 PM  
Tainted1: You know, people are allowed to learn from their mistakes and to change positions later in life.

Absolutely. But on the other hand, there's a big difference between learning from your mistakes and trying to avoid taking any responsibility whatsoever for the situation you helped to create. The Bush administration didn't just happen. A lot of people worked very hard to put them into power, and unfortunately many worked just as hard to look the other way when things started to go wrong.
 
2007-11-12 8:30:59 PM  
Seabon: Link (new window)

Urban Dictionary?
Come on, are you an alter ego for Afternoon_Delight?

That's sad...
 
2007-11-12 8:32:39 PM  
The Why Not Guy: Tainted1: You know, people are allowed to learn from their mistakes and to change positions later in life.

Absolutely. But on the other hand, there's a big difference between learning from your mistakes and trying to avoid taking any responsibility whatsoever for the situation you helped to create. The Bush administration didn't just happen. A lot of people worked very hard to put them into power, and unfortunately many worked just as hard to look the other way when things started to go wrong.


I never realized that I was so powerful....

I think i'm gonna take all this new found power and invade Poland!
 
2007-11-12 8:35:07 PM  
Descartes: Come on manDescartes: that Reagan said

I thought you were asking for proof about the meme, not if Reagan specifically said it. Here's another one: Link (new window)
 
2007-11-12 8:38:00 PM  
Descartes: Seabon: Link (new window)

Urban Dictionary?
Come on, are you an alter ego for Afternoon_Delight?

That's sad...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_queen

Footnote of the quote will take you to the NYT article. It was a major push on his 76 campaign. nobody denies this, except you...
 
2007-11-12 8:39:59 PM  
Look, will the people defending Reagan saying this at least admit he said it? He went into Philadelphia and didn't mentione civil rights, just states rights. Nobody (except apologists) is stupid enough to think this wasn't planned. Race baiting. Politicians do it all the time. Reagan wasn't a god. He's responsible for our debt today. He was an asshole. He said "Deficits don't matter".
 
2007-11-12 8:40:25 PM  
Seabon: I thought you were asking for proof about the meme, not if Reagan specifically said it.

Race and the Politics of Welfare Reform
By Sanford Schram, Joe Soss, Richard C. Fording

Page 194

http://books.google.com/books?id=RW_r4w-uvm8C&printsec=frontcover&dq=Race+and+th e+Politics+of+Welfare+Reform&sig=xrDkMDz8p83S974Js1mebbhkuEA#PPA194,M1

That's the best I can come up with.

Apparently the NYT original stories from 1977 would have more info...
 
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