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(Some Guy)   Financial genius and NYT columnist Paul Krugman writes that not only is the housing bubble burst Bush's fault, it's going to cost the country "several trillion" dollars. That's trillion, with a T-R   (seekingalpha.com) divider line
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    More: Dumbass  
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830 clicks; posted to Politics » on 25 Oct 2007 at 8:28 PM (15 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



56 Comments     (+0 »)


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tankdilla
2007-10-25 4:56:03 PM  
Hope we'll have a few trillion left over to cover the expenses in Iraq.
 
RobertBruce
2007-10-25 5:02:32 PM  
fi-donc.nlView Full Size
 
kmmontandon
2007-10-25 5:07:19 PM  
Why is he a dumbass for saying that? It's likely quite true, once you account for the knock-on effects.

Note that the housing market is probably going to benefit from the San Diego fires, which might provide something of a rebound, at least in CA.
 
Jmast7
2007-10-25 5:27:29 PM  
Could be worse. Could be a brazillion.
 
eddyatwork
2007-10-25 5:36:29 PM  
I'm a renter and I'm getting a kick out of all the smug homeowners who always lorded their equity over me. Where's your net worth now, suckers!
 
soze [OhFark]
2007-10-25 5:46:27 PM  
The Economist has been shiatting bricks over this, as much as a stiff upper lip English publication will shiat bricks in print, so just because it's the ZOMG LEFTIST JEW YORK TIMES COLUMNIST saying it doesn't mean it's just posturing.

Unless you want to call the Thatcher-humping Economist a commie rag.
 
nobozo
2007-10-25 5:54:32 PM  
Someday to be renamed the "Triraq War"?
 
m0llusk
2007-10-25 6:23:10 PM  
The numbers already out of Wall Street describe several banks and funds as having lost hundreds of billions. Add up the hundreds of billions and you get a very big number. Even with fairly strict criteria a trillion and change is easy to say, so there is no doubting what units to use or the trend in them.
 
robnix
2007-10-25 6:23:34 PM  
eddyatwork
I'm a renter and I'm getting a kick out of all the smug homeowners who always lorded their equity over me. Where's your net worth now, suckers!

Gaining ground every year.

1. Seattle, WA - 3.09% est. price increase from 2007-2008
2. Pittsburgh, PA - 3.37%
3. Columbus, OH - 3.49%
4. Dallas, TX - 5.45%
5. St. Louis, MO - 3.01%
6. Cincinnati, OH - 2.65%
7. Atlanta, Ga - 4.4%
8. San Antonio, TX - 5.35%
9. San Francisco, CA - 2.5%
10. Fort Worth, TX - 3.09%

Link

/me not quite as smug as last year, but still smug.
 
Mordant
2007-10-25 6:40:45 PM  
ok, it's not Bush's fault... it's Clinton's fault.

Now how bad is the news ?
 
clancifer
2007-10-25 7:36:06 PM  
Remember folks: everything is Bush's fault. No one else has any liability.
 
Lionel Mandrake
2007-10-25 8:35:44 PM  
Wow, it must be shiat on Paul Krugman day.

Because, this big shiatstorm we are in is the fault of a NYT columnist, not a shiatty President or Congress.

Boo, Paul Krugman, you evil, evil man, you!
 
Seabon
2007-10-25 8:36:11 PM  
tag is for the subby
 
Sleepy Weasel
2007-10-25 8:38:17 PM  
Cue the Dr. Evil pics with W's face saying "One Brazillion Dollars"

/No PS skills at all.
 
Eavanr
2007-10-25 8:45:03 PM  
Last time I checked it was Bush's fiscal policies that were tanking the country, not Krugman's.
 
Fart_Machine
2007-10-25 8:45:57 PM  
Did anyone actually read Krugman's article? He never blames Bush but says the remedy proposed by the Treasury Secretary is a bad idea.
 
sedryn
2007-10-25 8:46:59 PM  
Damn that Bush and his Brazillions...
i132.photobucket.comView Full Size
 
bolzy
2007-10-25 8:47:20 PM  
thugdome.comView Full Size
 
I'm over it now
2007-10-25 8:49:31 PM  
He must read Fark. Everything that has ever happened that's even remotely bad is Bush's fault.

Bill Clinton on the other hand created baby smiles, puppies and sunshine.
 
iccky
2007-10-25 8:50:21 PM  
Worth noting that if you measure housing value lost because of falling prices, we're already over the 2 Trillion mark.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/25/business/25mortgage.html
 
GoodasGold
2007-10-25 8:55:41 PM  
Paul Krugman doesn't no shiat. Neither does Tom Friedman. Neither does __________(fill in the blank). I am so over "expert analysis".
 
Smart Ass
2007-10-25 8:55:49 PM  
Meanwhile, back here in the real world, the estimates I've seen for eventual losses in subprime mortgage (which is where virtually all the losses will occur) range from $75 billion to $150 billion, or around the aggregate price change of the combined U.S. equity markets in a single day.

The Article.
Read it.
 
boomaze
2007-10-25 8:57:41 PM  
I'm over it now

He must read Fark. Everything that has ever happened that's even remotely bad is This huge ass unnecessary illegal war is Bush's fault.

Bill Clinton on the other hand created baby smiles, puppies and sunshine got a blowjob.

Just the way it is. I'm sorry reality gets on your nerves.
 
Death to America
2007-10-25 9:17:56 PM  
Throw in another 100 grand and buy me a house.

/23
 
Urmuf Hamer [TotalFark]
2007-10-25 9:22:39 PM  
boomaze:I'm sorry reality gets on your nerves.

You keep your reality away from my fark.

/Bastage
 
Shaggy_C
2007-10-25 9:39:31 PM  
Given the price of Iraq so far, 'billion' just doesn't have the same scary effect.
 
Indis
2007-10-25 9:40:18 PM  
Article writer is a moran - since the housing bubble has pumped up much more than just mortgage numbers, it's also increased valuations of companies involved in housing to companies that have been fueled by cheap easy credit. Or by a person who bought a house for $300k that is now worth $280k - no default there, but a loss that they have to eat for the time being.

It's easy to use your own numbers like he does without taking a look at the larger, cascading picture.
 
Der Vassermeister
2007-10-25 9:40:37 PM  
That dope Krugman got an economics degree from Yale and a PhD from MIT. What the fark does he know? I'm sure Limbaugh and O'Reilley will explain matters.
 
Aarontology
2007-10-25 9:58:57 PM  
eddyatwork: I'm a renter and I'm getting a kick out of all the smug homeowners who always lorded their equity over me. Where's your net worth now, suckers!

I second!!
 
KiwDaWabbit
2007-10-25 10:05:47 PM  
Der Vassermeister: That dope Krugman got an economics degree from Yale and a PhD from MIT. What the fark does he know? I'm sure Limbaugh and O'Reilley will explain matters.

Bush got a BSBA from Yale and an MBA from Harvard.

Just sayin'.
 
Manic_Repressive
2007-10-25 10:12:25 PM  
One Trillion Dollars (pops) (NSFW)
 
larry00
2007-10-25 10:38:53 PM  
Dang ! Thats about right just when everyone had just settled on Greenspan leaving rates too low too long and allowing creative financing to flourish.

I know Bush did it!
Oh wait he can't count so Cheney must have held a shotgun on the fed chairman and made him do it.
Works for me!
 
Arnold T Pants
2007-10-25 10:43:58 PM  
Krugman has always been a partisan hack. Real economist don't listen to him.
 
Stopheles
2007-10-25 10:48:54 PM  
cynical-c.comView Full Size


"The housing bubble will PAY FOR ITSELF!!"
 
iccky
2007-10-25 10:53:34 PM  
Arnold T Pants

Sad thing is Krugman used to be a serious economic columnist. His columns used to do a spectacular job of popularizing the lessons of economics, including non-lefty truths like "free trade is good (almost) all of the time." Something about Bush getting elected drove him crazy. I don't even glance at his column anymore.

Seriously, check out his columns from the 90s. Good stuff. Sad that he turned to hackery (though he's not wrong in this column, and subby is an asshole).
 
itsallabouttime
2007-10-25 11:04:38 PM  
kmmontandon: Note that the housing market is probably going to benefit from the San Diego fires, which might provide something of a rebound, at least in CA.

I think you need to learn a lesson in economics. This is called the fallacy of the broken window.

Parable of the Broken Window (new window)
 
ScubaDude1960
2007-10-25 11:16:37 PM  
Eavanr: Last time I checked it was Bush's fiscal policies that were tanking the country, not Krugman's.

The sub-prime bubble is the direct result of the "Community Reinvestment Act of 1977," which was "strengthened" in 1995 (or was it 1996?)
 
ScubaDude1960
2007-10-25 11:21:47 PM  
Manic_Repressive: One Trillion Dollars (pops) (NSFW)

I'll bet if those guys had a trillion dollars they could get decent haircuts.

/get off my lawn
 
iccky
2007-10-25 11:30:04 PM  
Just for a few examples of classic non-hackey Krugman, here's him saying sweatshops aren't so bad and attacking non-economists who try to turn economics bend economic theory to further their ideological goals.

The complete archive is here. Seriously, read his old work to see what a great mind - and great communicator - he was before he turned into a hack.
 
Clonod
2007-10-25 11:34:25 PM  
itsabouttime

kmmontandon: Note that the housing market is probably going to benefit from the San Diego fires, which might provide something of a rebound, at least in CA.

I think you need to learn a lesson in economics. This is called the fallacy of the broken window.

Parable of the Broken Window (new window)

I think you need a lesson in reading.

He wasn't purporting general economic benefit due to the fires. He was speaking specifically about the housing market. And yes, the fires, will create demand for new houses, obviously. The fallacy of the broken glass applies insomuch as the dollars pumped into the housing market represent lost opportunity throughout the rest of the economy.
 
gatsome
2007-10-25 11:40:13 PM  
GoodasGold: Paul Krugman doesn't no shiat. Neither does Tom Friedman. Neither does __________(fill in the blank). I am so over "expert analysis".

Will aye no won thing, aye will knot bee subscribing too you're newsletter.
 
bartink
2007-10-25 11:48:41 PM  
Another article refuted by the source he claims to criticize. Krugman actually said this:


That might work if there were no good reason for investors to be worried. But in this case, investors have very good reasons to worry: the bursting of the housing bubble means that someone, somewhere, has to accept several trillion dollars in losses. A significant part of these losses will fall on mortgage-backed securities. And given this reality, the "conduit" looks like a really bad idea./quot]

Then the article says:

But to get to $2 trillion in losses, you have to, after allowing for partial recoveries via foreclosure sales and foregone borrower equity, assume something like $4 trillion in mortgage defaults, or around 40% of all mortgage debt outstanding. I don't buy that. You shouldn't buy that. I can't believe anyone in his right mind would buy that.

Hes talking about losses to homeowners, that Krugmans says are not going to be the bulk of the trillions in losses.

Gimme a farkin break.
 
itsallabouttime
2007-10-26 12:27:54 AM  
Clonod: The fallacy of the broken glass applies insomuch as the dollars pumped into the housing market represent lost opportunity throughout the rest of the economy.

EXACTLY!
 
Desterion
2007-10-26 1:31:41 AM  
wtf is going on? how did a headline like that get greenlit with a dumbass tag. some admin must have been drunk off his ass and thought it was a hero tag, because god forbid anything remotely right wing get a greenlight.
 
UPS.Iowa.connection
2007-10-26 1:34:12 AM  
iccky: Seriously, read his old work to see what a great mind - and great communicator - he was before he turned into a hack.


I am with you 120%. I used to be a huge Krugman fan. But when he started rewriting economic theory to bash a political party (or perhaps an Administration, I couldn't take it any more.

I dislike Bush as next as the next person who hates mismanagement, the destruction of science in schools and colleges, and respects the rights of Americans to be Americans, but Krugman put ideological differences ahead of his own calling: discerning economic theory to the public.
 
Hideously Gigantic Smurf
2007-10-26 1:47:21 AM  
iccky: Seriously, check out his columns from the 90s. Good stuff. Sad that he turned to hackery (though he's not wrong in this column, and subby is an asshole).

There's something about a party repeatedly denying reality that makes someone with a sense of reason and rationale start pulling for the opposition.
 
Clonod
2007-10-26 2:04:40 AM  
itsallabouttime

Clonod: The fallacy of the broken glass applies insomuch as the dollars pumped into the housing market represent lost opportunity throughout the rest of the economy.

EXACTLY!

Yeah, the problem is you used it to mock someone that wasn't contradicting this principle. He said that the fires would strengthen the housing market (not the economy) which is TRUE. And you shot him the "someone needs an economy lesson" nonsense.
 
bartink
2007-10-26 5:03:59 AM  
I am with you 120%. I used to be a huge Krugman fan. But when he started rewriting economic theory to bash a political party (or perhaps an Administration, I couldn't take it any more.


Which theory would that be?
 
stpickrell
2007-10-26 7:24:43 AM  
iccky
Here's three questions, though.

(1) Whence will the jobs in the First World come, enabling this export-led growth to continue in the Asia-Pacific region? If manufacturing can be done more cheaply overseas, so too can management and innovation.
(2) Do you expect the US to run anything BUT a trade deficit, as the ability of your average Indonesian factory worker to buy high-end consulting services is lower than the ability of the average American to buy Indonesian manufactures?
(3) How is running a perpetual trade deficit good for the US?

Krugman has started to realize that for globalization to work, the average American has to see some gain from it. And here is my question to the supporters of globalization:

What is the average American in the bottom 80% gaining from globalization?

GoodasGold
Seriously, why don't you convert to Judaism, marry a Hebrew hottie, and ensure your kids get in on this world-spanning conspiracy?
 
MethFreek
2007-10-26 8:48:43 AM  
And Bush is responsible for the wildfires out West also.


/Ron Paul!
 
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