Skip to content
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Reuters)   ACLU helps US Army officer win lawsuit to obtain conscientious objector status and honorable discharge, on the basis that his Christian beliefs are incompatible with military service   (alertnet.org) divider line
    More: Interesting  
•       •       •

5587 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Oct 2007 at 9:27 PM (13 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



244 Comments     (+0 »)


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | » | Newest | Show all

 
2007-10-16 6:05:28 PM  
What a Nancy boy...
 
2007-10-16 6:10:34 PM  
WWJS? (who would Jesus shoot)

/you
//hippie
 
2007-10-16 6:10:44 PM  
Graduated from West Point in 2004. So, yeah... guess nobody told him about that whole war thing when he signed up.
 
2007-10-16 6:16:28 PM  
Hell, in my King James there was lots of warin'.

Gawd wants a clean fight!
 
2007-10-16 6:18:02 PM  
Oh, and why is this an ACLU issue in the first place? I am for most of the stuff the ACLU does, I just don't see how they fit into this...
 
2007-10-16 6:18:45 PM  
If thats true why do the AF generals keep trying to indoctrinate us?
 
2007-10-16 6:19:22 PM  
It hurts me that people are drafted in to this war even though it conflicts with their personal beliefs.

/what
 
2007-10-16 6:19:56 PM  
I call bullshiat.
 
2007-10-16 6:22:47 PM  
Undertow101: Oh, and why is this an ACLU issue in the first place? I am for most of the stuff the ACLU does, I just don't see how they fit into this...

They cover pretty much everything in the first amendment.

To wit:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

The exercise of his religion would have gotten him court-martialed, unless the Army had agreed to release him.
 
2007-10-16 6:23:25 PM  
Undertow101: Graduated from West Point in 2004. So, yeah... guess nobody told him about that whole war thing when he signed up.

To be fair, he had to start spending serious time on the application process in 1998 when he was probably 16. I don't have any problem with the guy's values changing over that period of his life.
 
2007-10-16 6:26:38 PM  
The infamous Group W Bench.

/ not just for father rapers and mother stabbers anymore...
 
2007-10-16 6:30:47 PM  
Undertow101: Oh, and why is this an ACLU issue in the first place? I am for most of the stuff the ACLU does, I just don't see how they fit into this...

They step in on BOTH sides, whenever Constitutional rights are violated.

They've been painted by the right as loonies because more often than not, their work is for progressive causes. But if you really understand the ACLU, they are strictly Constitutionalist, not "Liberal".

/Despite what Rush and O'RLY say.
 
2007-10-16 6:32:56 PM  
I forget what eight was for: They cover pretty much everything in the first amendment.

To wit:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

The exercise of his religion would have gotten him court-martialed, unless the Army had agreed to release him.


I guess that makes sense, but I don't think things would have happened quite the same if he was an enlisted guy.

filth: To be fair, he had to start spending serious time on the application process in 1998 when he was probably 16. I don't have any problem with the guy's values changing over that period of his life.

The guy who gets sent to Iraq in his place might have a problem with that.
 
2007-10-16 6:36:16 PM  
filth: To be fair, he had to start spending serious time on the application process in 1998 when he was probably 16. I don't have any problem with the guy's values changing over that period of his life.

The guy who gets sent to Iraq in his place might have a problem with that.

Well, presumably, that guy would also be an Army captain. So by your logic, why wouldn't he be just as big a douchebag as the CO if he didn't want to serve?
 
2007-10-16 6:37:11 PM  
SoxSweepAgain: They step in on BOTH sides, whenever Constitutional rights are violated.

Yeah, I understand that, like I said, I am for pretty much everything the ACLU does. Really though, were his Constitutional rights violated?
 
2007-10-16 6:37:49 PM  
Guess he should have been Muslim?
 
2007-10-16 6:38:06 PM  
Undertow101:

Oh, and why is this an ACLU issue in the first place?

ACLU gets involved when there is a Constitutional issue. In this case, freedom of regligion.

.
 
2007-10-16 6:42:47 PM  
filth: Well, presumably, that guy would also be an Army captain. So by your logic, why wouldn't he be just as big a douchebag as the CO if he didn't want to serve?


I'd be pretty pissed off if I found out I was going to Iraq just to fill the role of someone who decided to find Jesus. The difference is I would go and not complain about it because I signed the farking contract.
 
2007-10-16 6:51:41 PM  
Undertow101: filth: Well, presumably, that guy would also be an Army captain. So by your logic, why wouldn't he be just as big a douchebag as the CO if he didn't want to serve?


I'd be pretty pissed off if I found out I was going to Iraq just to fill the role of someone who decided to find Jesus. The difference is I would go and not complain about it because I signed the farking contract.


It's all a matter of proximity. Every soldier takes the place of an American who isn't there for one reason or another. You're just taking the Yossarian view.
 
2007-10-16 6:52:32 PM  
Undertow101: Yeah, I understand that, like I said, I am for pretty much everything the ACLU does. Really though, were his Constitutional rights violated?

I am curious as to why he had to be discharged... There are plenty of jobs in the Army you can take that don't require you to kill someone else. Why couldn't they just give him a desk job in Utah?
 
2007-10-16 6:54:36 PM  
filth: It's all a matter of proximity. Every soldier takes the place of an American who isn't there for one reason or another. You're just taking the Yossarian view.

I have no idea what the Yossarian view is, but if you just called me an asshole, then consider my feelings hurt.
 
2007-10-16 6:57:08 PM  
Undertow101: I'd be pretty pissed off if I found out I was going to Iraq just to fill the role of someone who decided to find Jesus. The difference is I would go and not complain about it because I signed the farking contract.

My sister's been in the Marines for a year and she is pissed she hasn't gone to Iraq yet. For all you know he is taking the spot of someone who wants to go.
 
2007-10-16 6:59:00 PM  
Undertow101: filth: It's all a matter of proximity. Every soldier takes the place of an American who isn't there for one reason or another. You're just taking the Yossarian view.

I have no idea what the Yossarian view is, but if you just called me an asshole, then consider my feelings hurt.


Wouldn't dream of it. Here, this Wiki article is almost unbearably boring and poorly written, but the point is that Yossarian is a soldier who takes everything personally. But he had the excuse of being drafted.
 
2007-10-16 7:03:11 PM  
And the assclown got a free college education out of it.
All on our dime.
 
2007-10-16 7:05:28 PM  
Ryan2065: My sister's been in the Marines for a year and she is pissed she hasn't gone to Iraq yet. For all you know he is taking the spot of someone who wants to go.

I've been in for nine and a half years now and still haven't gone. Stuck at a non-deployable unit since the war started as an MOS instructor. So, yeah, I feel her pain. I'm getting stationed elsewhere in December, and hopefully, Iraq bound shortly thereafter.
 
2007-10-16 7:07:32 PM  
That needs an "IRONIC" tag.
 
2007-10-16 7:08:49 PM  
filth I will give it a read, thanks!
 
2007-10-16 7:10:04 PM  
Undertow101: I've been in for nine and a half years now and still haven't gone. Stuck at a non-deployable unit since the war started as an MOS instructor. So, yeah, I feel her pain. I'm getting stationed elsewhere in December, and hopefully, Iraq bound shortly thereafter.

This happened to my dad also. He went into the Marines during the Vietnam war but was never sent to Vietnam. He was sent to Hawaii to guard the base there.

He wasn't too happy either... Grandma sure was.
 
2007-10-16 7:18:32 PM  
Ryan2065: This happened to my dad also. He went into the Marines during the Vietnam war but was never sent to Vietnam. He was sent to Hawaii to guard the base there.

He wasn't too happy either... Grandma sure was.


Yeah, it's just one of those things. The Marine Corps puts you where they want, not where you want. I'll get my chance, though.

One thing that gets old is, as soon as I meet someone and they find out I am a Marine, the first thing they ask is "so, you been to Iraq yet?". I hate answering "no". I actually feel kind of ashamed.
 
2007-10-16 7:28:01 PM  
Undertow101: One thing that gets old is, as soon as I meet someone and they find out I am a Marine, the first thing they ask is "so, you been to Iraq yet?". I hate answering "no". I actually feel kind of ashamed.

If you're a non-deployable instructor, isn't there a reason for that? Son, you're more valuable to this country training other Marines and posting on Fark!

Thanks for your service, by the way.
 
2007-10-16 7:42:21 PM  
filth

Heh, thanks.
 
2007-10-16 7:50:29 PM  
BobtheFascist: I call bullshiat.

Thank you.
 
2007-10-16 7:58:05 PM  
In 1964 I was stationed at Ft. Sam Houston, TX as a medical instructor. We trained COs. They were some good people who took a lot of crap, but they trained hard and went to Viet Nam as unarmed medics. A lot of them didn't come back, because in the early days medics and officers were the first targets. After a while we learned not to show red crosses or rank insignia. This guy is just a pussy.
 
2007-10-16 8:01:09 PM  
He couldn't think about that before entering the army?
 
2007-10-16 8:16:55 PM  
Tatsuma: He couldn't think about that before entering the army?

The article says he found god after the army gave him an education =)

Brown said he had no conflict between his faith and military service until after he graduated from West Point in 2004 and began to study scripture and his belief.
 
2007-10-16 8:17:29 PM  
Shocked ... SHOCKED am I to learn that joining a branch of the military might require me to kill someone and conflict with my Judeo-Christian values!
DUMBASS tag KIA?
 
2007-10-16 8:32:07 PM  
Undertow101: Graduated from West Point in 2004. So, yeah... guess nobody told him about that whole war thing when he signed up.

2004 graduate... 4 years at westpoint... entered westpoint in 1999. hmmmm. what war?

Tatsuma: He couldn't think about that before entering the army?

fta: Brown said he had no conflict between his faith and military service until after he graduated from West Point in 2004 and began to study scripture and his belief.

religion does funny things to people. are you faulting him for finding faith a little later in life than some others? ;-)
 
2007-10-16 8:41:15 PM  
Megain: religion does funny things to people.

Yeah, so what. Send him a bill for his college education because he did not fulfill his contract with the army and the taxpayers. I don't give a rat's ass about his new imaginary friend.
 
2007-10-16 8:45:01 PM  
JoeBagadonutz: Send him a bill for his college education because he did not fulfill his contract with the army and the taxpayers.

Exactly.
 
2007-10-16 8:52:32 PM  
Megain: 2004 graduate... 4 years at westpoint... entered westpoint in 1999. hmmmm. what war?


From the West Point homepage: By law, graduates of West Point are appointed on active duty as commissioned officers and serve in the U.S. Army for a minimum of five years.

He could have bailed before graduation if he felt that strongly about it. But of course, he hadn't found God yet, so that would have been just silly.
 
2007-10-16 8:58:16 PM  
Megain: 2004 graduate... 4 years at westpoint... entered westpoint in 1999. hmmmm. what war?

He didn't have to be discharged. Not many people stationed state side have to kill the enemy... He could have still worked off his debt instead of running out on it.
 
2007-10-16 9:19:10 PM  
Remember when (probably still happening) you had to fill out draft paperwork in order to fulfill student loan/grant/scholarship paperwork?

I remember filling it out as "Quaker/Conscientious Objector and if you have a problem with that I'll rip your head off and shiate down your windpipe."

Pretty sure that got me categorized as "AAAA/Front-Line Fodder."
 
2007-10-16 9:30:12 PM  
SoxSweepAgain But if you really understand the ACLU, they are strictly Constitutionalist

Because the framers of the Constitution were all over the concept of the Second Amendment as a 'collective' right.

</rolleyes>
 
2007-10-16 9:30:18 PM  
Dude is a coward.
 
2007-10-16 9:31:29 PM  
kraut7

yer mom
 
2007-10-16 9:34:26 PM  
Does that mean he'll be returning all of his pay?
 
2007-10-16 9:34:37 PM  
Stop comparing him with enlisted men. He went to West Point had had been promoted to Captain. His experience is nothing like those who are actually in harm's way.
 
2007-10-16 9:34:49 PM  
This man is no God Warrior, he is a pussy.
 
sfl
2007-10-16 9:38:24 PM  
kraut7: Dude is a coward.

You are an idiot.
 
2007-10-16 9:38:55 PM  
This is a load of bull. He'd have a point if he were drafted, but he signed the contract and got a free education. Now he doesn't want to hold up his end of the bargain.
 
Displayed 50 of 244 comments


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | » | Newest | Show all



This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking





On Twitter



  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.