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(Some Guy)   Problem: California high school students aren't learning history. Solution: Send a note home with students asking parents to renounce their U.S. citizenship in protest over Guantanamo detainees   (chicoer.com) divider line
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    More: Dumbass  
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1339 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Sep 2007 at 6:04 PM (15 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



41 Comments     (+0 »)
 
TFer
2007-09-14 3:50:09 PM  
"asking parents to renounce their US citizenship in protest over Guantamo detainees

Whoever the fark you are, please stop writing headlines.
 
Sensei Can You See [TotalFark]
2007-09-14 4:00:10 PM  
TFer: Whoever the fark you are, please stop writing headlines.

Submitter here. What seems to be the problem?
 
TFer
2007-09-14 4:06:50 PM  
the quoted part in my comment is the problem. You've completely misrepresented the teachers intentions.
 
martissimo
2007-09-14 4:11:36 PM  
think he's going with "over" should be "of" and "Guantamo" should be "Guantanamo"

still got nothing on "sayof" tho if you ask me!
 
HenryFnord
2007-09-14 4:11:50 PM  
And where the hell is "Guantamo"?
 
martissimo
2007-09-14 4:13:14 PM  
TFer: the quoted part in my comment is the problem. You've completely misrepresented the teachers intentions.

lol, or that, but hell thats common around here, misleading headlines go green all the time
 
Sensei Can You See [TotalFark]
2007-09-14 4:18:25 PM  
TFer: the quoted part in my comment is the problem. You've completely misrepresented the teachers intentions.

FTFA:

Bidwell Junior High School administrators said a letter sent home with students in an eighth-grade class Tuesday was a good idea for a history lesson, with bad execution.

The letter, which appeared to ask parents to renounce their U.S. citizenship, prompted phone calls to the school from several irate recipients.

....When Hill asked her if Brooks mentioned Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, where the U.S. imprisons terrorist suspects, he said his daughter replied "yes."

==========

Can't speak to the teacher's intentions, just to what he actually did. Hence the Dumbass tag.
 
RocketRod
2007-09-14 4:36:33 PM  
img524.imageshack.usView Full Size

Chico is discouraged... and The Man, he ain't so hard to understand.
 
Will Explode
2007-09-14 4:51:16 PM  
At least there's no arrogant, above the law, becoming insane King in charge right now.
 
Epsilon
2007-09-14 5:30:57 PM  
I read the article and I don't see the big farking deal. Maybe the teacher screwed up by not sending an explanation along with the paper, but that's the worst thing that happened.
 
Unright
2007-09-14 6:05:41 PM  
Teacher is only a dumbass for not getting the Administration's approval first, since they were the ones who were going to be on the receiving end of the parental shiatstorm.

Also, some parents signed it? I'm guessing because they probably didn't read it and have no interest in their kid's education.
 
zeio
2007-09-14 6:17:48 PM  
Core issue: California students are not forced to memorize and interpret the constitution.

If the public doesn't know the rights, they go away.
 
toddalmighty [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2007-09-14 6:21:14 PM  
Somehow I don't think he fully thought out...
 
TFer
2007-09-14 6:22:23 PM  
nice, I knew this would go green.

You win, MervGriffin.

However, You shouldn't have linked the letter to the Guantanamo discussion. That may be a false assertion on your part.

The letter is a metaphor for what would happen today if we were going through the American Revolution. It also serves to show the sacrifices and bravery our founding peoples were capable of when faced with an oppressive and troubling Government.

Since we're quoting the article for one another:
"The point was, I wanted to ask parents if they would sign such a letter if conditions that existed prior to the Revolution were happening now," he said. "I just wanted to start a discussion."
 
TFer
2007-09-14 6:24:03 PM  
It's not very clear is all, as usual. Good day
 
Korovyov
2007-09-14 6:26:18 PM  
Heh. Provocative, at least... in a state that involves private citizens in politics via ballot initiatives and so forth.

It's the sort of thing a complete paranoid might expect from an agent provocateur, even. :p
 
beirmaster
2007-09-14 6:46:55 PM  
Where he failed was expecting his students to explain the assignment clearly to their parents. Most of the kids probably went home and said "this needs to be signed and returned to my teacher" with no further explanation. Some parents did just that, probably without reading it. Others probably read it and thought "WTF?". Without the context of what the assignment was the parents were lost.
 
VitruvianMonkey
2007-09-14 6:49:08 PM  
Anybody in their right mind would have been well aware that an explanation of SOME kind was necessary. He may have TOLD the kids to explain it to their parents, but 13 year olds are well aware what the path of least resistance* looks like and any teacher should be aware that they are aware. Awareawareawareawareaware. But I digress.

He should have known that some (most) of those kids would much rather shove a signature line under their parent's nose than have a historical/political discussion with them. He either knew EXACTLY the kind of reaction the letter would elicit or he is a very naive/dumb teacher who has no idea how 13 year olds think. I think the real outrage should be that someone this stupid is allowed to teach children.

*Wikipedia
 
Vic Sage
2007-09-14 6:49:38 PM  
Having been acquainted with many education majors, the headline actually sounds plausible. DRTFA
 
Sensei Can You See [TotalFark]
2007-09-14 6:50:00 PM  
TFer: However, You shouldn't have linked the letter to the Guantanamo discussion.

Don't tell me; tell the teacher (FTFA):

"When Hill asked her if Brooks mentioned Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, where the U.S. imprisons terrorist suspects, he said his daughter replied "yes."

"He said his daughter broke into tears when she talked about Brooks mentioning illegal wiretaps and other surveillance directed against innocent people.

"I think I was more irritated by the classroom discussion than the letter," he said.
 
Sensei Can You See [TotalFark]
2007-09-14 6:52:25 PM  
TFer: Since we're quoting the article for one another:
"The point was, I wanted to ask parents if they would sign such a letter if conditions that existed prior to the Revolution were happening now," he said. "I just wanted to start a discussion."

I wasn't aware that prior to the American Revolution, King George was imprisoning enemy combatants in Cuba or wiretapping the colonists' phone calls.
 
notfromhere
2007-09-14 6:56:31 PM  
Well, if the student have studied history, they would have known that indefinite detention that runs counter to the Constitution has been done several times over throughout US history.
 
joe714
2007-09-14 6:59:17 PM  
California? Don't your parents have to be US Citizens before they can renounce their citizenship?
 
Sensei Can You See [TotalFark]
2007-09-14 7:02:19 PM  
notfromhere: Well, if the student have studied history, they would have known that indefinite detention that runs counter to the Constitution has been done several times over throughout US history.

According to TFer, unconstitutional imprisonment was happening before the Constitution even existed.
 
TheConvincingSavant
2007-09-14 7:03:39 PM  
Principal Joanne Parsley said teacher Mike Brooks never intended to have parents sign the letters, or forward them on to President Bush, to whom they are addressed.

"It was a well-intended lesson that didn't shake out too well," she said, adding that Brooks would not be subject to disciplinary action.

Of course not, no harm done. We were just making sure you'd notice an attempt at indoctrination, should your student ever have that kind of thing happen to them in the future.

See, we're just looking out for you. Why? Because we care.
 
Bugs_Bunny_Practiced_Psychological_Warfare
2007-09-14 7:03:45 PM  
MyNameIsNotMervGriffin: notfromhere: Well, if the student have studied history, they would have known that indefinite detention that runs counter to the Constitution has been done several times over throughout US history.

According to TFer, unconstitutional imprisonment was happening before the Constitution even existed.

Look up Shay's Rebellion.
 
TheConvincingSavant
2007-09-14 7:07:07 PM  
Chico resident Michael Hill said he was told by his daughter, Kaytlen Hill, 13, that the assignment was to have parents sign the letter and return it to class Wednesday.

"The lesson being taught in class was that the U.S. kidnaps innocent people and takes them to Cuba, where they are kept indefinitely and tortured," Hill said he learned through his daughter.

When Hill asked her if Brooks mentioned Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, where the U.S. imprisons terrorist suspects, he said his daughter replied "yes."

He said his daughter broke into tears when she talked about Brooks mentioning illegal wiretaps and other surveillance directed against innocent people.

Looks like another endorsment for private school.
 
TheConvincingSavant
2007-09-14 7:11:01 PM  
On Wednesday, Hill said he requested his daughter be put in another history class, which was done immediately.

Smart dad.
 
dracos31
2007-09-14 7:21:09 PM  
I wonder how many of the people who will come in here and bluster without actually RTFA wouldn't have a problem if the guy was sending home Bible verses.
 
notfromhere
2007-09-14 7:26:18 PM  
dracos31: I wonder how many of the people who will come in here and bluster without actually RTFA wouldn't have a problem if the guy was sending home Bible verses.


Ezekiel 23 is my fav:

1The word of the LORD came to me: 2 "Son of man, there were two women, daughters of the same mother. 3 They became prostitutes in Egypt, engaging in prostitution from their youth. In that land their breasts were fondled and their virgin bosoms caressed.

It gets better...
 
VitruvianMonkey
2007-09-14 7:30:50 PM  
notfromhere: dracos31:
Ezekiel 23 is my fav:

1The word of the LORD came to me: 2 "Son of man, there were two women, daughters of the same mother. 3 They became prostitutes in Egypt, engaging in prostitution from their youth. In that land their breasts were fondled and their virgin bosoms caressed.

It gets better...

Let's just hope some responsable young Christian girl checks the Bible out from her school library before impressionable young minds get ahold of this smut.
 
Sensei Can You See [TotalFark]
2007-09-14 7:39:21 PM  
Bugs_Bunny_Practiced_Psychological_Warfare: According to TFer, unconstitutional imprisonment was happening before the Constitution even existed.

Look up Shay's Rebellion.

You're not following me. My point is that by definition, unconstitutional government action was impossible before the Constitution existed. Immoral/unethical/not nice, sure. But you can't violate a constitution that doesn't exist.
 
ilambiquated
2007-09-14 7:50:51 PM  
Here's a nice biblical story about incest... you'll recall God thought Lot was a good guy, but his wife was turned to a pillar of salt for watching god use WMDs in Sodom & Gomorrah - this was before the days of freedom of the press. What happened after that sounds like Lot's version (too drunk too remember, but sober enough to get it up) and usually doesn't feature in Sunday school versions of the bible.


Genesis 18
30 Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. 31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, "Our father is old, and there is no man around here to lie with us, as is the custom all over the earth. 32 Let's get our father to drink wine and then lie with him and preserve our family line through our father."
33 That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and lay with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.

34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, "Last night I lay with my father. Let's get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and lie with him so we can preserve our family line through our father." 35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went and lay with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.

36 So both of Lot's daughters became pregnant by their father. 37 The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab [a] ; he is the father of the Moabites of today. 38 The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi ; he is the father of the Ammonites of today.
 
Sylver Dragon
2007-09-14 8:11:45 PM  
It sounds like the teacher was actually trying to engage his students and make them think about history and not just memorize a random set of dates. Of course, he needs to work on the execution, but this is still an interesting idea.
 
Huge Unit In My Dungarees
2007-09-14 8:43:32 PM  
How many parents of CA public school students even have citizenship?
 
Torc
2007-09-14 8:45:33 PM  
MyNameIsNotMervGriffin: You're not following me. My point is that by definition, unconstitutional government action was impossible before the Constitution existed. Immoral/unethical/not nice, sure. But you can't violate a constitution that doesn't exist.

No, the statement makes since if you're using "unconstitutional" in the sense of 'contrary to the principles of the constitution.' That's not the same as saying an event that occurred before the creation of the constitution was illegal because of the constitution. It's kind of irrelevant when the events occurred relative to when the constitution was created, since we're making a judgment now using concepts that exist today.
 
LeBain
2007-09-14 11:06:52 PM  
I'm glad the note went home so the parents can see what kind of weirdo is spending 6-8 hours a day with their kids unsupervised.
 
Bugs_Bunny_Practiced_Psychological_Warfare
2007-09-14 11:45:33 PM  
MyNameIsNotMervGriffin: Bugs_Bunny_Practiced_Psychological_Warfare: According to TFer, unconstitutional imprisonment was happening before the Constitution even existed.

Look up Shay's Rebellion.

You're not following me. My point is that by definition, unconstitutional government action was impossible before the Constitution existed. Immoral/unethical/not nice, sure. But you can't violate a constitution that doesn't exist.

Yes I was and you missed what he said by at least 100 miles.
 
Dialectic
2007-09-15 12:01:54 AM  
img187.imageshack.us
 
Whorbal
2007-09-15 6:15:07 PM  
"After careful consideration of the facts of our current situation, I have decided to announce to everyone that I am no longer a citizen of the United States, but a free and independent member of the global community."


bahaha
 
Stryyder
2007-09-16 12:11:45 PM  
Parsley said she doesn't believe Brooks has any political agenda to advance.


BAHAHAHAHAH
 
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