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(Some Guy)   Giuliani demands a full-page ad in The New York Times with Moveon.org's 77 percent discount   (thehill.com) divider line
    More: Amusing  
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1048 clicks; posted to Politics » on 13 Sep 2007 at 10:39 PM (15 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2007-09-13 10:25:26 PM  
Sure. Give him the rate.

Say, speaking of equal time, I'd like to see Barak Obama get one hour of airtime for each and every Law & Order episode that includes Fred Thompson.
 
2007-09-13 10:27:24 PM  
floor9: Sure. Give him the rate.

Say, speaking of equal time, I'd like to see Barak Obama get one hour of airtime for each and every Law & Order episode that includes Fred Thompson.


Believe it or not, I came in here to say that :-)

What is the story there - do the networks have to stop rerunning his episodes once the campaign is in full swing? Not totally familiar with the ins and outs of equal time law in the US.
 
2007-09-13 10:28:11 PM  
Also Marie, No Way Out, Feds, Fat Man and Little Boy, The Hunt for Red October, Days of Thunder, Die Hard 2, Flight of the Intruder, Class Action, Necessary Roughness, Curly Sue, Cape Fear, Iron Eagle III, Thunderheart, White Sands, Born Yesterday, In The Line of Fire, Barbarians at the Gate, Baby's Day Out, Celsius 41.11, Racing Stripes, Last Best Chance, Looking for Comedy in the Muslim World (WTF?), Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee, L&O: Trial By Jury, L&O: SVU, L&O: CI, Conviction, Sex & The City, Matlock, Roseanne, China Beach, and Wiseguy.

Will Fred Thompson keep track of his appearances, or should the stations do that themselves?
 
2007-09-13 10:29:28 PM  
The Times really did Jump the Shark on this one. It's like they desperately want to confirm all the rumors of a left-wing bias in the media. And if you've ever read Frank Rich or Paul Krugman columns, they are merely suck ups to any position the Democratic Party takes.
 
2007-09-13 10:29:36 PM  
9/11
 
2007-09-13 10:30:11 PM  
paulseta: Not totally familiar with the ins and outs of equal time law in the US.

I'm not familiar either, but they either should have to stop showing them -- all of them, including renting & selling the movies -- from now until the conclusion of the 2012 election.

Although Mariska Hargitay is pretty hot. Maybe we could make an exception on SVU.
 
2007-09-13 10:32:55 PM  
mikemoto: The Times really did Jump the Shark on this one.

Wouldn't it be funny if the Times was more than willing to offer the same rate to all candidates who ask? That way, you've got Rudy-the-Red-Nosed-Reindeer banging his fist on the podium and screaming about liberal media bias, turning to the Times and screaming "WELL?!?". The only reply would be a quiet, respectful "Sure. You just had to ask."
 
2007-09-13 10:35:38 PM  
I'm a bit more concerned with Hizzoner stuffing his staff with Neocon warmongers, thanks.

When you put someone like Podhoretz on your staff, someone that literally prayed for Bush to attack Iran in a full spread Wall Street Journal OpEd, I say, "fark you."

This warmongering neoconservative shiat has to end.
 
2007-09-13 10:37:22 PM  
floor9: Sure. Give him the rate.

Say, speaking of equal time, I'd like to see Barak Obama get one hour of airtime for each and every Law & Order episode that includes Fred Thompson.


Are you serious? I'm no fan of Fred, or the replubtards, but isn't that a fictional show with a fictional character?

Is this what we've come to in political discussion?

Farking Christ.
 
2007-09-13 10:38:27 PM  
floor9: I'm not familiar either, but they either should have to stop showing them -- all of them, including renting & selling the movies -- from now until the conclusion of the 2012 election.

I believe that NBC has to either stop showing them or give equal airtime. However, TNT, being a cable network, does not have to. Same for USA and whatever other cable networks carry those shows.

It is a bit strange that they'd consider a network show to be a campaign appearance in terms of equal airtime. Say he was playing a mass murder instead of a DA... would that be considered "campaigning?" But, if those are the rules, those are the rules.
 
2007-09-13 10:44:06 PM  
Can someone do the math. It was a $177,000 add and they gave it away or $100,000 right? That's not a 77% discount that's a $77,000 discount.

(all numbers are approximate and pulled from memory in yesterday's thread)
 
2007-09-13 10:44:21 PM  
colovion: I believe that NBC has to either stop showing them or give equal airtime. However, TNT, being a cable network, does not have to. Same for USA and whatever other cable networks carry those shows.

Ah, I wondered why his episodes were still airing in places. Thanks for the explanation.
 
2007-09-13 10:44:41 PM  
Re: Thompson and equal time

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/070831/entertainment/tv_thompson_s_reruns
 
2007-09-13 10:46:53 PM  
9-11
 
2007-09-13 10:46:57 PM  
Amusing. To think he'd fork over the ad cash since he has loads of contributioin money.
 
2007-09-13 10:48:23 PM  
paulseta: floor9: Sure. Give him the rate.

Say, speaking of equal time, I'd like to see Barak Obama get one hour of airtime for each and every Law & Order episode that includes Fred Thompson.

Believe it or not, I came in here to say that :-)

What is the story there - do the networks have to stop rerunning his episodes once the campaign is in full swing? Not totally familiar with the ins and outs of equal time law in the US.


The rule is: If the airing of a movie or a tv show gives more airtime to a Republican candiate then it's a-okay. If it's a democrat, well, then, you better believe its not right!
 
2007-09-13 10:48:35 PM  
Roceodr: http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/070831/entertainment/tv_thompson_s_reruns

It's a character, not a candidate.

If we're all that f*cking stupid, elections are irrelevant.
 
2007-09-13 10:48:35 PM  
What does he need a full page ad for in the first place? You know he's just going to say 9/11 again.
 
2007-09-13 10:52:30 PM  
The First: The rule is: If the airing of a movie or a tv show gives more airtime to a Republican candiate then it's a-okay. If it's a democrat, well, then, you better believe its not right!


Actually NBC aired this LinkTV movie in 1998 about a Democratic congresswoman from Long Island. I do not recall the Republican opponent in her district getting equal time.
 
2007-09-13 10:54:08 PM  
Why does Rudy need a discount? He's getting free press feigning outrage over this "controversy".
 
2007-09-13 10:54:22 PM  
They can give him whatever rate they damn well please. If he can negotiate a $100,000 price, fine.

But I doubt the NYT will be starting their negotiations at $100,000 (or whatever it was) because the rate they gave someone else was published. I think their advertised rate was $169,000 or something?
 
2007-09-13 10:54:56 PM  
Falcc: What does he need a full page ad for in the first place? You know he's just going to say 9/11 again.

It will be a full page ad of the towers in flames with Rudy's face (sporting that creepy farking grin of his) superimposed over the image...

Ugh...
 
2007-09-13 10:56:56 PM  
mikemoto: The First: The rule is: If the airing of a movie or a tv show gives more airtime to a Republican candiate then it's a-okay. If it's a democrat, well, then, you better believe its not right!


Actually NBC aired this LinkTV movie in 1998 about a Democratic congresswoman from Long Island. I do not recall the Republican opponent in her district getting equal time.


Are you comparing a noname in a small election that has no power balance compared to Fred Thompson a PRESIDENTAIL candiate or Ahhhnold as a GOVERNOR candiate?
 
2007-09-13 11:00:19 PM  
tallguywithglasseson: They can give him whatever rate they damn well please. If he can negotiate a $100,000 price, fine.

But I doubt the NYT will be starting their negotiations at $100,000 (or whatever it was) because the rate they gave someone else was published. I think their advertised rate was $169,000 or something?


They also have different rates for advocacy ads vs commercial ones. That's something the folks who seem so outraged over this never bother to mention.
 
2007-09-13 11:01:04 PM  
I just watched Sean Hannity and Oliver North discussing the New York Times Betrayal to our Country and that Hillary Clinton owes it to us an apology and to tell moveon.org to quit being so mean. When you have two Great Americans talking about this, it makes you really stop to think about how Great a Man General Patreus is and that it is traitorous to dis him in front of the world.
 
2007-09-13 11:01:44 PM  
If the NYT can document that it's pricing in a completely content-neutral fashion, they should be fine.

If they're giving better rates based on content or 'negotiation', they should be prepared to defend themselves against charges that the discount does not constitute an 'in-kind' political contribution of the sort that the FEC regulates.
 
2007-09-13 11:02:25 PM  
The First: mikemoto: The First: The rule is: If the airing of a movie or a tv show gives more airtime to a Republican candiate then it's a-okay. If it's a democrat, well, then, you better believe its not right!


Actually NBC aired this LinkTV movie in 1998 about a Democratic congresswoman from Long Island. I do not recall the Republican opponent in her district getting equal time.

Are you comparing a noname in a small election that has no power balance compared to Fred Thompson a PRESIDENTAIL candiate or Ahhhnold as a GOVERNOR candiate?


Are you saying those who would vote for the candidate of another party are incapable of seeing the difference between a character on on a tv show and an actual candidate for office?
 
2007-09-13 11:06:41 PM  
...against charges that the discounts do constitute in-kind contributions to a political action committee, I mean.

/and I'm not even drunk yet. *sigh*
 
2007-09-13 11:08:38 PM  
HizCrossDresser can suck it.

NYT is a business. They can set whatever rates they want. Remember, Free Markets?
 
2007-09-13 11:10:15 PM  
mikemoto: And if you've ever read Frank Rich or Paul Krugman columns, they are merely suck ups to any position the Democratic Party takes.

Heh, that reminds me of an NY Times op-ed from a couple of years ago. The NY Times quoted a Republican saying something controversial. But they completely misquoted the Republican.

A quick Google search later, and it was obvious that the quote the Times picked out was found online at only one source. The DNC. And yes, the DNC misquoted the Republican in exactly the same way, making the same argument the NY Times later copied.

It doesn't get much more embarrassing than that. The Times didn't research, they misquoted, AND they deliberately copied and pasted DNC talking points.
 
2007-09-13 11:11:42 PM  
Poopspasm: Falcc: What does he need a full page ad for in the first place? You know he's just going to say 9/11 again.

It will be a full page ad of the towers in flames with Rudy's face (sporting that creepy farking grin of his) superimposed over the image...

Ugh...


You know when I wrote that I was actually thinking that image. Isn't that creepy? You can see it when you close your eyes *Shudder*

You'd think the 9/11 truther guys would be claiming he was responsible by now. I mean, he'd be constantly referencing the event itself as leverage during his public denial. "Of course I couldn't be responsible, I mean, 9/11 was a great loss for all of us. 9/11 happened when I was mayor and it was a great loss, and certainly no one could benifet from an event like 9/11 which as you all remember happened when I was mayor of New York. That's why you should vote for me, becuase I'm not gaining anything, especially not political traction, from that tragedy... 9/11!"
 
2007-09-13 11:13:42 PM  
You people are arguing about airtime, and he is surrounding himself with the people most in favor of attacking Iran, which he supports.

Does TFA matter? Shouldn't his influx of neocons?
 
2007-09-13 11:16:45 PM  
He doesn't have the maturity to be president.
 
2007-09-13 11:17:01 PM  
He can biatch and whine all he wants he isn't getting elected.
 
2007-09-13 11:18:52 PM  
I can tell you already how the ad will look:


911

 
2007-09-13 11:19:01 PM  
He can biatch and whine all he wants he isn't getting elected.

He might if there is another terrorist attack on the scale of...what was that date?
 
2007-09-13 11:20:30 PM  
Can we somehow make Jim Belushi run for President, so they can take his TV show off the air?
 
2007-09-13 11:21:23 PM  
hey - i just heard that rudy was mayor of nyc on 9/11. is that true?
 
2007-09-13 11:22:37 PM  
mikemoto: The Times really did Jump the Shark on this one. It's like they desperately want to confirm all the rumors of a left-wing bias in the media. And if you've ever read Frank Rich or Paul Krugman columns, they are merely suck ups to any position the Democratic Party takes.

Krugman and Frank Rich are different from the right wing pundits in other papers how?

I strongly disagree with them taking MoveOn's ad. I think it MoveOn is to the Democratic Party as Free Republic is to sane Republicans.
 
2007-09-13 11:25:44 PM  
I know this is silly but I was watching Rudy on Fox News and his eyes creeped me out. They go from small to big, small to big, etc.
It is like he is trying to send a morris code with his eyes that spells out, "9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11".
 
2007-09-13 11:26:11 PM  
princehal: NYT is a business. They can set whatever rates they want. Remember, Free Markets?

FAIL, considering that giving a discount for services rendered to a candidate or a political action committee -- and MoveOn PAC is the latter -- constitutes an in-kind contribution subject to regulation and contribution limits, outside certain exceptions.

Ex.
http://www.fec.gov/pages/brochures/citizens.shtml#contribution

So no, they don't get to charge less than the 'normal' rate without it falling under the regulations -- and limits, and disclosure rules -- any more than FOX would be permitted to arbitrarily decide that Mitt Romney gets to run 30-sec spots for free, or a private investigative firm would be allowed to offer months of free opposition research on behalf of Sen. Obama. They charge the 'normal' rate without regard to it being from a PAC, or they report the difference as an in-kind contribution.

And the problem with reporting it as an in-kind contribution is that the contribution limit, for a corporation (versus the individual members thereof) is... zero (*). In other words, the NYT had better be charging any and all PACs and candidates the true 'market rate' in a content-neutral fashion. It might reasonably be based on circulation, space, location in the newspaper, et al... but it had better not be different because it came from MoveOn PAC versus Rudy Giuliani's campaign for a reason they can't document as non-partisan.

(*) There are certain exceptions, such as providing food/drink, or accounting services for ensuring compliance with campaign-finance law. Advertising is not one of those exceptions.

/Not particularly fond of campaign-finance law, but also not fond of misrepresentations thereof.
 
2007-09-13 11:28:31 PM  
FlashHarry: hey - i just heard that rudy was mayor of nyc on 9/11. is that true?

no way! really? this is new to me
 
2007-09-13 11:29:57 PM  
[image from img170.imageshack.us too old to be available]
 
2007-09-13 11:30:03 PM  
Korovyov: princehal: NYT is a business. They can set whatever rates they want. Remember, Free Markets?

FAIL, considering that giving a discount for services rendered to a candidate or a political action committee -- and MoveOn PAC is the latter -- constitutes an in-kind contribution subject to regulation and contribution limits, outside certain exceptions.

Ex.
http://www.fec.gov/pages/brochures/citizens.shtml#contribution

So no, they don't get to charge less than the 'normal' rate without it falling under the regulations -- and limits, and disclosure rules -- any more than FOX would be permitted to arbitrarily decide that Mitt Romney gets to run 30-sec spots for free, or a private investigative firm would be allowed to offer months of free opposition research on behalf of Sen. Obama. They charge the 'normal' rate without regard to it being from a PAC, or they report the difference as an in-kind contribution.

And the problem with reporting it as an in-kind contribution is that the contribution limit, for a corporation (versus the individual members thereof) is... zero (*). In other words, the NYT had better be charging any and all PACs and candidates the true 'market rate' in a content-neutral fashion. It might reasonably be based on circulation, space, location in the newspaper, et al... but it had better not be different because it came from MoveOn PAC versus Rudy Giuliani's campaign for a reason they can't document as non-partisan.

(*) There are certain exceptions, such as providing food/drink, or accounting services for ensuring compliance with campaign-finance law. Advertising is not one of those exceptions.

/Not particularly fond of campaign-finance law, but also not fond of misrepresentations thereof.


Not snarking. I am either reading over it or don't understand it but where in your link covers newspaper ads?
 
2007-09-13 11:32:06 PM  
GWLush:
Not snarking. I am either reading over it or don't understand it but where in your link covers newspaper ads?

Under 'Donated Items and Services'

If you sell an item or service to a committee and ask the committee to pay less than the usual and normal charge, you have also made an in-kind contribution to the committee in the amount of the discount.

Advertising is most definitely a service. MoveON PAC, is a political action committee. Hence, the need for it to be the 'usual and normal' charge.
 
2007-09-13 11:32:18 PM  
Dinki: He can biatch and whine all he wants he isn't getting elected.

Ever hear the saying "history repeats itself?"

All of you liberals who are certain that no Republican can win should look at the 1972 election. During a war where 50,000 were dead, which was less popular than the current war and with a deadpan Republican running against the McGovernite line... the Republicans won in a LANDSLIDE.

Americans may not like war, however they absolutely HATE surrender. I wouldn't count your votes before they're cast libs.

I'm just worried that all of you may go and start jumping off of tall buildings if this happens. Not only do I not want to see mass suicides, even if it were by liberals, but that would be a LOT of paperwork for us poor schlubs in law enforcement. The pain and suffering we'd have from carpal tunnel due to all that paperwork is too terrible to imagine! So please have a rational plan for the very real possibility that history does repeat itself.

I warn because I care. I promise not to rub it in if it happens if that will ease your suffering. I hear France is a great place to flee to for liberals, you may want to keep that in mind. One year is plenty of time to get a basic understanding of the French language eh!
 
2007-09-13 11:34:33 PM  
Korovyov: GWLush:
Not snarking. I am either reading over it or don't understand it but where in your link covers newspaper ads?

Under 'Donated Items and Services'

If you sell an item or service to a committee and ask the committee to pay less than the usual and normal charge, you have also made an in-kind contribution to the committee in the amount of the discount.

Advertising is most definitely a service. MoveON PAC, is a political action committee. Hence, the need for it to be the 'usual and normal' charge.


I see but they weren't actually donating to a committe of the DNC. They were buying Ad Space in a newspaper. I am still not getting it.
 
2007-09-13 11:35:08 PM  
Peaceboy: Can we somehow make Jim Belushi run for President, so they can take his TV show off the air?

[image from img204.imageshack.us too old to be available]

See? Acting abilities aside, he might make a firm, but kind, Commander-in-Chief.
 
2007-09-13 11:35:54 PM  
mikemoto: Actually NBC aired this LinkTV movie in 1998 about a Democratic congresswoman from Long Island. I do not recall the Republican opponent in her district getting equal time.

How can you say, 'I don't recall seeing the opponent get air time' when you're from farking Texas? Oh, because who ever told you about this also told you they didn't get equal air time and that fits nicely into your little world view and so therefor it must be true?

Just letting you know you are a complete partisan asshole. That kind of shiat pisses me off more than politicians.
 
2007-09-13 11:37:25 PM  
GWLush:
I see but they weren't actually donating to a committee of the DNC. They were buying Ad Space in a newspaper. I am still not getting it.

Committee includes political action committees involved in Federal elections, not just the candidates' or parties' committees. MoveON is a PAC. The fact that MoveON is not affiliated with one specific campaign does not change this.
 
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