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(Yahoo)   Editorial: "Harry Potter had no moral crisis in the seventh book, which is poorly written." Translation: "I wish I had sold 325 million books, too. And Snape kills Dumbledore"   (news.yahoo.com) divider line
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13067 clicks; posted to Main » and Fandom » on 26 Jul 2007 at 6:32 PM (15 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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scruffy1
2007-07-26 3:49:41 PM  
The author brings up several good and legitimate points but since Subby's reading level is only up to reading Dr. Suess, he may have not understood all those words and sentences.
 
Blues_X
2007-07-26 3:55:41 PM  
Back to that first principle of storytelling: A story is about someone who changes.

Or not.

Hiro and Y.T. didn't change in "Snow Crash", which I finished reading last night. And it was very good.
 
mistersite
2007-07-26 3:57:59 PM  
This is an excellent article... it summed up perfectly some of my issues with Harry Potter 7.

Put quite bluntly, I think Harry could have been a more interesting character if he'd have had some harder choices to make. Even the climactic choice he does make near the end of the book really lacks the kind of depth it needs, in my opinion.
 
kingMountain
2007-07-26 3:59:40 PM  
i think the hero of the books is the reader and we've all been changed by reading them.

//that's right, i'm a 7th grader
 
NuttierThanEver
2007-07-26 4:11:59 PM  
Bullshiat. Saw Kurt Vonnegut talk once about Hamlet (what he considered the greatest work ever of English Lit). He discussed how there was no growth of the character and how there was no climax and resolution to the story. Yet this is the way they teach you to do in creative writing class and this writer seems so desperately be clinging to this rote.
 
zobear
2007-07-26 4:47:39 PM  
What I don't get is why people insist on holding Harry Potter up to some unachievable meter? It's popular fiction, and not anything more lofty than that. I'd never lump Rowling into the L'Engle/Tolkein bunch, and I don't think that's what she was aiming for in particular.

Geesh! Can't entertainment simply be entertaining any more?
 
Broken9754
2007-07-26 5:00:37 PM  
FTFA:

"The problem is, that's not the moral of the story. Good always prevails. It's the hero's struggle - and costly redemption - that matters."

Uh, hello? Bold part is the moral maybe?
 
wyltoknow
2007-07-26 5:01:40 PM  
zobear: Geesh! Can't entertainment simply be entertaining any more?

It reminds me of the asstards who go on and on about the flaws of the Transformers movie. The characters are two-dimensional, the plot is shoddy, blah blah. Who the fark cares, the movie was just made to entertain. Same for the books. As long as people are entertained then who the hell cares if some of the deeper meanings of the book or movie or whatever are flawed? Get over it.
 
olddinosaur
2007-07-26 6:36:46 PM  
In modern literature, a plot must never be resolved, you have to have sequel after sequel.

You also have to aim it at the average 10-year-old, that captures the adult market without alienating too many children for talking down to them.
 
ttc2301
2007-07-26 6:37:40 PM  
How else can a single mom make millions of kids happy and pocket more money than God? STFU and GBTW.

/must have been one of those dickheads that biatched about the Sopranos ending.
//if it's stupid and it works, it ain't stupid.
 
Snoozer
2007-07-26 6:38:07 PM  
So how does it end?
 
tmcottle
2007-07-26 6:38:20 PM  
I think little Jenny isn't getting farked!

/book was great in my eyes
 
Azu
2007-07-26 6:38:30 PM  
NuttierThanEver: Bullshiat. Saw Kurt Vonnegut talk once about Hamlet (what he considered the greatest work ever of English Lit). He discussed how there was no growth of the character and how there was no climax and resolution to the story. Yet this is the way they teach you to do in creative writing class and this writer seems so desperately be clinging to this rote.

Exactly. As tomatoes have taught us, it doesn't have to be sweet to be a fruit.

Harry does not change, but if we are judging the state of the nation by our children's literature, I'd say there are some problems with the people judging our society.
 
skinink [OhFark]
2007-07-26 6:40:15 PM  
Article Translation: it's the dog days of summer, so this filler article will try to pin the ills of society on a piece of literature that barely influences morals.
 
kshilcutt
2007-07-26 6:40:30 PM  
As much as I love me some Harry Potter...

Rowling has publicly expressed mystification over her readers' fascination with Snape, even suggesting that his appeal is simply "the bad boy syndrome." Instead, her readers, whether consciously or not, have tapped into something that Rowling herself may have failed to recognize.

That something was a need for a protagonist who genuinely struggled to define - and do - the right thing. A passive main character with no authentic moral dilemma is not only hard to relate to, he or she is also no guide in circumstances in which right and wrong are anything less than black and white.

I completely agree. She hit the nail on the head.

Could also be why there's so much smutty Snape fanfic out there...wait, no...that's just the nerds.
 
Lasik
2007-07-26 6:40:39 PM  
I'd have loose morals too...


all4humor.comView Full Size
 
MiddleAgedWoman
2007-07-26 6:40:53 PM  
Um? I loved that book. I don't give a skrewt's fart what the reviewers said. As for no climactic choice. . . um well if you think it was easy to choose between walking out to get killed, or just staying invisible and heading off someplace safe . . .

I'm a writer who would love to find flaw in it just because my royalties pay for the occasional big mac fling and not a castle in scotland.
 
Cameron_Talley
2007-07-26 6:41:09 PM  
WTF?
Harry Changes a lot. But that change is gradually spread over SEVEN books. Duh...
 
kibbled [BareFark]
2007-07-26 6:41:37 PM  
ttc2301: How else can a single mom make millions of kids happy and pocket more money than God? STFU and GBTW.

She could of been a stripper.
 
yossarian reznor
2007-07-26 6:42:18 PM  
Yes, please, make all our stories boring, vapid, black and white morality plays that validate traditional values.
 
Larry Mahnken
2007-07-26 6:43:07 PM  
Snoozer: So how does it end?

Voldemort ends up killing himself when a curse he casts on Harry rebounds on him. Also, Snape killed Dumbledore because Dumbledore told him to. He was against Voldemort because he was in love with Harry's mother.

Also, Hermoine and Ron get married.
 
Azu
2007-07-26 6:43:25 PM  
Whoever is the dumb broad who wrote this who seems to think children lit is pegged by the "Hero's Quest" archetype also seems to think they are a children's lit critic.

And I'd have to say, I pity the world of literary critic if you seem to think there is only one story arc for all children's lit.
 
Practice Safe Farking
2007-07-26 6:43:58 PM  
If one doesn't like JK Rowling's book, one is welcome to write their own.

Good luck.
 
zobear
2007-07-26 6:44:03 PM  
Snoozer: So how does it end?

Everybody dies.
 
kshilcutt
2007-07-26 6:45:05 PM  
Larry Mahnken: Snoozer: So how does it end?

Voldemort ends up killing himself when a curse he casts on Harry rebounds on him. Also, Snape killed Dumbledore because Dumbledore told him to. He was against Voldemort because he was in love with Harry's mother.

Also, Hermoine and Ron get married.

You forgot the gheyest parts:

1) Harry names one of his sons Albus Severus
2) Draco names his son Scorpius

I'm so glad she put this crap at the tail end of the books, or else I would have stopped reading a long time ago.
 
yotta
2007-07-26 6:45:20 PM  
I call Bullshiat!
Good ol' Harry faces a new ethical dilemma in almost every chapter, makes tough decisions (certainly tough for a 17 year old wizard) and does grow as a person.
 
HZS9PK
2007-07-26 6:45:28 PM  
Dumbledore would so have kicked Gandolf's arse!

/Love the book too!!
 
Jument
2007-07-26 6:45:54 PM  
zobear: Geesh! Can't entertainment simply be entertaining any more?

Exactly. I enjoy all of the HP books. They are great light entertainment, which is why I read them in the first place, so mission accomplished.

Rowling deserves millions the same way professional athletes deserve millions, which is to say "not really". I'd much rather see her get vastly overpaid than some idiot who can swing a bat and catch though.
 
Fart_Machine
2007-07-26 6:46:16 PM  
In other news, hardcore critics can suck the fun and entertainment out of any medium.
 
Madman drummers bummers [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2007-07-26 6:47:21 PM  
(spoiler alert)

Oh, like a 17 year old KID walking into what he was certain to be instant hot death in order to save everyone else isn't a "moral decision." It wasn't like Luke thinking he was going to kick Vader's ass - it was "Dude, yo ass is gonna DIE."

Me? I'd've been like, "Fark this - I'm grabbing Ginny and broomsticking my ass to Bora Bora."
 
hotter than the ads
2007-07-26 6:47:26 PM  
FTA:

Classic tales such as J.R.R. Tolkien's "Lord of the Rings" trilogy and Madeleine L'Engle's "A Wrinkle in Time" set the standard for children's fiction.

Lord of the Rings is NOT children's literature.

That is all.
 
miss bliss
2007-07-26 6:47:26 PM  
harry doesn't go through a crazy psychological transformation, that is true. however, the language jk uses (to say nothing of the plot and content) is much, much more mature than in the first books. in harry's first chapter of book 7, i remember thinking 'wow. harry's a man now.' his thoughts, actions, etc just seem more manly to me, less like an adolescent or a child. and what changes would he go through? he's known he might die for years. its nothing new.

but then, what do i know? i lined up at midnight.

and yes, i dressed up!
 
zobear
2007-07-26 6:47:57 PM  
Aye kshilcutt, the epilogue was "teh suck!"
 
digital_opium
2007-07-26 6:48:20 PM  
Rowling has publicly expressed mystification over her readers' fascination with Snape, even suggesting that his appeal is simply "the bad boy syndrome." Instead, her readers, whether consciously or not, have tapped into something that Rowling herself may have failed to recognize.

That something was a need for a protagonist who genuinely struggled to define - and do - the right thing. A passive main character with no authentic moral dilemma is not only hard to relate to, he or she is also no guide in circumstances in which right and wrong are anything less than black and white.

In a society increasingly steeped in moral relativism, it's not the Harrys of the world who will make a difference. It's the Snapes. It's those who need redemption, then choose it. It's those willing to press on and fail and then to press on again - especially when there are no clear answers.

There is much to love about the Harry Potter series, from its brilliantly realized magical world to its multilayered narrative. Unfortunately, Rowling did her readers a great disservice by making the story about Harry when it really should have been about Snape.

This.
 
LavenderWolf
2007-07-26 6:48:45 PM  
What a retarded article.

Here's one: Harry's journey to maturity takes a climactic turn when he is forced to accept morality. He learns that only by accepting death as inevitable can he truly live.
 
hoobers
2007-07-26 6:48:53 PM  
Lasik: I'd have loose morals too...

Radcliffe is creepy looking. He was a cute little kid, but now...eeek!
 
Doc Daneeka
2007-07-26 6:49:21 PM  
Blues_X: Back to that first principle of storytelling: A story is about someone who changes.

Or not.

Hiro and Y.T. didn't change in "Snow Crash", which I finished reading last night. And it was very good.

Finished? You don't exactly finish reading a Neal Stephenson book, so much as it just suddenly
 
benwa
2007-07-26 6:50:02 PM  
I used to like porn until i realised the acting was horrible and the story lines were highly improbable. I got standards dammit. Ha!

Potter is popular. And anything popular is going to have some level of suck to it. Does the new movie have boobs in it?
 
Mad Scientist [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2007-07-26 6:50:06 PM  
Dumbledore is dead?! When did this happen?!

/I hope Ace Frehley is still alive, at least.
 
Stealthdozer
2007-07-26 6:50:45 PM  
NuttierThanEver
Spot on.
 
pandertome
2007-07-26 6:51:04 PM  
Man, who cares? I thought it was fine, I wasn't bored with the book or anything. What the hell does this guy want? Doesn't he know that the most popular media is usually not the best?

No matter what anybody says most kids like the book, Rowling is filthy rich, and you aren't.
 
Polypi
2007-07-26 6:51:51 PM  
I liked the books. That being said, Harry is still a whiny kid who can't come to terms with the death of parents as shown by his constantly trying to bring them back. It was nice to see him finally realize that it couldn't and shouldn't happen when he lost that stone/ring thing and didn't immediately try and get it back. But it took him seven books to realize that! That's my biggest complaint.

Otherwise he's seventeen. It's okay if he continually acts with out thinking coontil the end that is).
 
boot20
2007-07-26 6:52:01 PM  
What about the samurai stories where the "good" samurai, against all odd and with the strong morals (and lack of moral dilemma's that entails), defeats the "bad" samurai. How about Star Wars (Luke's moral dilemma was no worse than Harry's).

What about Beowulf. It was clear that the hero must stay and defend, even though he could have left (much like Harry)...

Jeez...the author of that article gets a big FAIL.
 
TheRealKlaatu
2007-07-26 6:52:39 PM  
Harry's choice in the 7th book was whether to pursue the quest on which Dumbledore sent him, or to be distracted by lure of power, reprented by the "Deathly Hallows."

Choosing between a sometimes dreary mission wherein success was by no means guaranteed and vain dreams of unlimited power may not seem important to the critic, but the ramifications of the choice were enormous. Only by staying on track, does Harry succeed.

Snape's character is interesting, but the fact that he killed Dumbledore, for whatever reason, makes him unredeemable. Rowling glosses over it, but Snape is still a murderer at the end of book seven.
 
xalres
2007-07-26 6:53:04 PM  
hotter than the ads: FTA:

Classic tales such as J.R.R. Tolkien's "Lord of the Rings" trilogy and Madeleine L'Engle's "A Wrinkle in Time" set the standard for children's fiction.

Lord of the Rings is NOT children's literature.

That is all.

Yeah really. There were parts of those books I'd have to read several times to "get" them. Maybe she was thinking of The Hobbit.
 
XuGreatOne
2007-07-26 6:53:36 PM  
I was disappointed because I thought Harry should have used the Avada Kedavra curse to finish off Voldemort himself. Knowing he would have had to kill in such a fashion is the exact moral dilemma that the author of the article was talking about.
 
Lasik
2007-07-26 6:53:40 PM  
Larry Mahnken: Snoozer: So how does it end?

Voldemort ends up killing himself when a curse he casts on Harry rebounds on him. Also, Snape killed Dumbledore because Dumbledore told him to. He was against Voldemort because he was in love with Harry's mother.

Also, Hermoine and Ron get married.


/NOOOOOOO!!!!1!1
 
TearsInTheRain
2007-07-26 6:54:06 PM  
Snoozer: So how does it end?

Optimus Prime comes and does battle with Lord Voldemort, who is secretly John McClane in drag. John doesn't really understand magic and just waves his wand whenever he feels rage, but because THE MAN wants to put him down he is labelled the villian.

Suddenly Khan shows up and its revealed he's been using a dilithium crystal to holodeck camo himself as Voldemort. Yoda beams down and decapitates Khan with a giant light-saber, which happens to be a transformed Optimus Prime.

Hermione drinks a love potion and starts getting it on with Harry, as both are 17 its totally, totally legal now. She casts a brazilio pubisco in the last scene and is totally shaven from head to toe, looking like a young bald chick from star trek I.

Oh it turns out Voyager was the alien probe that gave Harry his spidey powers.
 
random256
2007-07-26 6:54:11 PM  
hotter than the ads
Lord of the Rings is NOT children's literature.


That one is really a matter of opinion. I read it many years ago in seventh or eighth grade. I was 12 or 13 at the time. Didn't have any real difficulties with it other than Tolkien being a lil too verbose sometimes.
 
TheSup3rN0va
2007-07-26 6:54:28 PM  
Doc Daneeka: Blues_X: Back to that first principle of storytelling: A story is about someone who changes.

Or not.

Hiro and Y.T. didn't change in "Snow Crash", which I finished reading last night. And it was very good.

Finished? You don't exactly finish reading a Neal Stephenson book, so much as it just suddenly

This
 
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