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(Yahoo)   In an effort to curb gang violence, ATF thinks it will be a great idea to "aggressively confront would-be gun buyers" at gun shows. This can only end well   (news.yahoo.com) divider line
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    More: Asinine  
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1172 clicks; posted to Politics » on 11 Jul 2007 at 3:44 AM (15 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



33 Comments     (+0 »)
 
Yergela
2007-07-11 2:55:36 AM  
Actually, "the ATF conceded it was heavy-handed in Richmond and promised to do better," but nice attempt at trolling, submitter. Next time, at least make the "quote" from the article actually a direct quote, even if you are going to take it out of context.
 
somemoron
2007-07-11 3:56:36 AM  
Yergela - even further, the Gun Show dealers and promoters stated they appreciated having a certain level of ATF/Police presence at the shows to keep the scum out. So yeah, submitter lives under a bridge.
 
slipperyrockdawg
2007-07-11 3:58:11 AM  
WTF is up with all the gun control links all of a sudden? Schumer, Feinstein, Lott or LaPierre get a Fark account all of a sudden?
 
InternetLOL
2007-07-11 4:04:54 AM  
Gun advocates cite a 2001 Justice Department report in which prison inmates said they had gotten just 0.7% of the guns they used to commit crimes from gun shows. But gun control advocates cite a 2000 ATF study that found gun shows were the second biggest source of illegal guns (after crooked gun dealers), accounting for some 26,000 illegal guns over 2 years.

Of-farking-course.
 
thenateman
2007-07-11 4:26:23 AM  
leaving gun shows unpoliced is a bad idea

Here the nanny state language creeps in. A gun show is self-policing. It isn't necessarily self-regulating, which is what the opinion piece calls for. In particular, the authors want to change:

But individual gun owners or collectors who sell their own firearms at shows don't have to check buyers' backgrounds, inviting illegal purchases, no matter the dealer's honesty.

If the feds took a problem-solving approach, they'd set up kiosks or wandering bureaucrats with tablet PCs, where private sellers could check backgrounds. This could be done without changing the law because, as the opinion piece says, there is common ground on this. Unfortunately, ATF focuses on command-and-control over problem solving. And the opinion writers too are stuck in the legalistic mindset.

If you as a private citizen were asked to perform a background check on a potential gun buyer, how would you do it?
 
illspirit
2007-07-11 4:53:09 AM  
Go read the ATF's report on themselves (new window). They don't seem to have found any problem with searching buyers' homes, interrogating their families and neighbors, or arbitrarily confiscating things because a person's "geographic region" somehow equals probable cause.

Think about that for a second. An executive branch agency thinks they can search and arrest you because you happen to live in a "geographic region" where crime has or might possibly happen. Even if you don't own guns, that should be kinda scary. Especially given the current administration..
 
Alien Robot
2007-07-11 4:55:56 AM  
thenateman: If you as a private citizen were asked to perform a background check on a potential gun buyer, how would you do it?

It's actually illegal for you as a private citizen/seller to call for a NICS check on a gun purchaser.
 
lolmao666
2007-07-11 5:08:51 AM  
I just have one thing to say: SECOND AMENDMENT
 
arollo
2007-07-11 5:28:48 AM  
RTFA, it happened in 2005, then the government said don't do that in 2006. Non issue.
 
Brown Sauce
2007-07-11 8:25:22 AM  
They should just shut down the gun shows all together.

Support your local, independent gun dealer, biatch.
 
Giblet
2007-07-11 8:28:38 AM  
thenateman: If the feds took a problem-solving approach, they'd set up kiosks or wandering bureaucrats with tablet PCs, where private sellers could check backgrounds.

It's a great idea but it will never happen.

Background checks are done through the state systems and, eventually, through the FBI's NICS system. That requires a degree of interdepartmental cooperation that does not, and probably will never, exist within the US.

BATF---State Police---FBI

My opinion: eliminate the BATF. Their charter is covered by other organizations (FBI and Treasury). They serve no function at all, just like the KGB (DHS) other than to add layers of bureaucracy to an inefficient system.

Let FBI trainees stand-in at the gun shows, answer questions, and run clearance checks. That way, the riff-raff stay away, the law is upheld, the trainees learn a LOT, and the clearance process is expedited. Everybody wins.
 
Giblet
2007-07-11 8:36:31 AM  
Brown Sauce: They should just shut down the gun shows all together.

Support your local, independent gun dealer, biatch.

The rural gunsmiths can't make enough money to survive on the local trade alone. These are the real craftsmen -- the guys that hand-machine that adjustable-pull trigger grouping for your Granpappy's Winchester and make those beautiful hand-gnurled cherry grips for your 1911.

Rural gunsmiths rely (mostly) on gun shows and internet sales.
 
I'm over it now
2007-07-11 8:40:49 AM  
Is this going to be like bringing a knife to a gun fight??
 
Tat'dGreaser
2007-07-11 8:41:32 AM  
TFA: Too bad. While the ATF conceded it was heavy-handed in Richmond and promised to do better, leaving gun shows unpoliced is a bad idea, questioned even among show promoters and gun dealers.


I have a feeling the author doesn't understand the difference between the ATF harassing people and the normal level of security that happens at gun shows. I agree with background checks but not to the point where the ATF follows you home to make sure you live there.
 
for good or for awesome
2007-07-11 9:00:09 AM  
It's not like the ATF has history of farking things up. Lighten up peoples.
 
dexter.lives
2007-07-11 9:53:57 AM  
That Master Shake...he comes up with the wackiest plans.

/did not RTFA
 
Mr. Scorpion
2007-07-11 9:57:46 AM  
The ATF can "aggressively confront" my middle finger at a gun show.

/As hard as I can
 
Jack31081
2007-07-11 10:12:50 AM  
what's scary is that the ATF thinks gang members buy their guns at gun shows.
 
HeadLever
2007-07-11 10:24:31 AM  
The ATF has proven itself multiple times to be the worst bureaucracy in the U.S. Government. Just read up on it if you want to really understand the poster child for how bad things can get with a bureaucracy.

/And people still wonder why I don't want to see more government in my life.
 
DeltaPunch
2007-07-11 10:29:11 AM  
Sweet, and ATHF thread!
 
Postal Penguin
2007-07-11 12:12:33 PM  
Jack31081: what's scary is that the ATF thinks gang members buy their guns at gun shows.

As it is with most government attempts at security all they do is hassle a legal citizen attempting to commit a legal act while the true criminals easily side step the so called "safety measures". And many groups think that even though our gun laws are ineffective at curbing gun crime, the solution is to enact more ineffective laws.
 
classicliberal
2007-07-11 12:21:52 PM  
Giblet: thenateman: If the feds took a problem-solving approach, they'd set up kiosks or wandering bureaucrats with tablet PCs, where private sellers could check backgrounds.

It's a great idea but it will never happen.

Background checks are done through the state systems and, eventually, through the FBI's NICS system. That requires a degree of interdepartmental cooperation that does not, and probably will never, exist within the US.

BATF---State Police---FBI

My opinion: eliminate the BATF. Their charter is covered by other organizations (FBI and Treasury). They serve no function at all, just like the KGB (DHS) other than to add layers of bureaucracy to an inefficient system.

Let FBI trainees stand-in at the gun shows, answer questions, and run clearance checks. That way, the riff-raff stay away, the law is upheld, the trainees learn a LOT, and the clearance process is expedited. Everybody wins.

Good idea. Fair equitable and falls under the well regulated part of the 2nd amendment. Also decreases the size of government. Win -win situation. That money can either be used as a tax break or to support our military.
 
carmody
2007-07-11 12:22:05 PM  
The same gun shows where a legal loophole enables people to buy guns without a background check or five-day waiting period?

Seems like closing the loophole would be more effective, doesn't it?
 
Dimensio
2007-07-11 12:53:29 PM  
The same gun shows where a legal loophole enables people to buy guns without a background check or five-day waiting period?

Prehaps you can identify and explain this loophole. Be specific.
 
Vespers
2007-07-11 1:48:40 PM  
carmody: The same gun shows where a legal loophole enables people to buy guns without a background check or five-day waiting period?

Seems like closing the loophole would be more effective, doesn't it?

To back up Dimensio, I will also ask for some kind of explanation or quote of the specific Federal statutes which exempt gun shows from background checks or waiting periods. If you could please compare, say, Georgia vs Massachusetts, that would also be helpful.

Or are you quoting what you heard a shrill voice say on TV?


/For those of you wondering, www.packing.org is your friend.
 
whidbey
2007-07-11 1:50:21 PM  
The ATF is nothing short of legalized thuggery.
 
Churchill2004
2007-07-11 1:56:43 PM  
whidbey: The ATF government is nothing short of legalized thuggery.

FTFY
 
REOIV
2007-07-11 2:02:26 PM  
Right to keep and bear arms.

Sounds simple to me.

We should have no laws saying what you CAN'T own and instead have laws on saying what you CAN'T do with what you own.

Anyone should be able to own a machine gun or a car.

Being able to/how you use it is another matter.

That said I think the BATFE should go DIAF.
I think we should repeal all gun control laws all the way back to 1934.

I can have a muffler for my car but not my gun? WHA???

The police and the army can own and use machine guns but not the average citizen? I thought we were all equal under the law. I guess the peasants shouldn't be able to arm themselves.

I can have a shot gun 19 inches long but make it 18 inches long and its a felony?? WTF 1 inch difference... Smart

I can have a gun made from 10 foreign parts and the rest made in USA and it is ok but one from 11 foreign parts and it is a felony? WTF???

I can own armor piercing bullets as long as they can't be used in a hand gun... WTFBBQ?

Our gun laws are farked big time and should be done away with entirely.
 
whidbey
2007-07-11 2:28:40 PM  
Churchill2004: whidbey: The ATF government is nothing short of legalized thuggery.

FTFY

No, dude. I didn't imply that, you CYNIC. ;)

I just think this particular agency has WAY too much power.
 
lilbjorn
2007-07-11 2:30:29 PM  
ATF thinks it will be a great idea to "aggressively confront would-be gun buyers" at gun shows.

I'll get the popcorn. This should be entertaining.
 
Elzar
2007-07-11 2:34:02 PM  
img355.imageshack.usView Full Size
 
TheRaven7
2007-07-11 5:22:41 PM  
Guys, the second amendment simply means the government can't rip your arms off.
 
Giblet
2007-07-12 5:34:26 AM  
REOIV: Our gun laws are farked big time and should be done away with entirely.

Not to mention that all the current gun laws have stifled innovations that would have improved the available technology.

It's the unprofessional people, experimenting in their own workshops, that create all the really NEW and innovative stuff.

We'd probably have a cure for cancer available in a .45 caliber if...hey... Eureka!
 
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