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(Some Guy)   "Father of Climatology" says global warming is just a money scam and bad science. Click the number to the right to join the outraged shrieks that he doesn't know what he's talking about   (madison.com) divider line
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1714 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 18 Jun 2007 at 3:39 PM (15 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2007-06-18 10:46:34 AM  
buttercuppopcorn.comView Full Size
 
2007-06-18 10:54:46 AM  
Get it right smitty... he doesn't say Global Warming is hooey... he says that "man is causing global warming" is hooey.

Global warming is quite real. People are just arguing over the "why" part.

/... loves saying "hooey"
 
2007-06-18 10:58:27 AM  
I loved the idea of these up-start young scientists contradicting him only to find that they are the students of his students.

Not that he can't be wrong, but man, show some respect.
 
2007-06-18 10:59:19 AM  
There is no question the earth has been warming. It is coming out of the "Little Ice Age," he said in an interview this week.

"However, there is no credible evidence that it is due to mankind and carbon dioxide.


Partial fail for submitter.
 
2007-06-18 11:00:54 AM  
Wow it's not man made? We can't do anything about it? We had better prepare to deal with it's effects?

Amazing. Just amazing, it's exactly what I have been saying for over a year now.
 
2007-06-18 11:08:53 AM  
He also likely sits at an intersection for long after the light turns green and gets mad at the younger drivers behind him who beep to encourage him to go. Doesn't make him right just because he was driving for many years before them and could have taught the neighbor boy (who grew up to be the town driving instructor) how to drive.

/ideas change
//older people don't change as quickly
///the climate is changing WAY to quickly for him to be right
////get off his lawn
 
2007-06-18 11:49:48 AM  
I wonder which oil company is paying for his research.
 
2007-06-18 11:58:33 AM  
"Almost 40 years ago, Bryson stood before the American Association for the Advancement of Science and presented a paper saying human activity could alter climate."

http://www.wecnmagazine.com/2007issues/may/may07.html

So... which is it?
 
2007-06-18 12:33:34 PM  
I'll believe him when he stops parroting talking points and engaging in logical fallacy, and actually provides some scientific explanation.

We've been over these points before:

1. The Little Ice Age and MWP were regional, not global.
2. He's ignoring the basic science of the greenhouse effect.
3. The rise in temperature rose sharply with the rise of anthropogenic CO2.
4. The Urban Heat Island effect cannot explain the rise of global temperatures.
5. He's doing nothing more than repeated previously debunked talking points and relying on his "authority" as a paleo-climatologist, but offers no scientific evidence for his claims, and none of his previous peer-reviewed work does either.
 
2007-06-18 1:48:27 PM  
says global warming is just a money scam

I'm still trying to figure out what the profit motive is supposed to be for the so-called Global Warming Conspiracy.

After all, it's the energy companies that are offering bounties to scientists willing to speak up against global warming ...
 
2007-06-18 2:46:48 PM  
I especially like the part where he doesn't offer any evidence to back up his "hooey" claim. He just offers innane arguments of "they're younger than me, so they don't know what they are talking about". Great, thanks for weighing in with your opinion.

Bryson didn't see Al Gore's movie about global warming, "An Inconvenient Truth."

"Don't make me throw up," he said. "It is not science. It is not true."


He reviews a movie he didn't see. And he trashes science he probably didn't bother reading either, judging by his arguments.

Waste of time.
 
2007-06-18 2:48:39 PM  
Oh NOES! The Science has betrayed us! whatever shall we do!?
 
2007-06-18 2:48:46 PM  
Speaking out against global warming is like being a heretic, Bryson noted.


"Reid Bryson maintains his long-standing opinions on anthropogenic climate change, and he's certainly entitled to them," Vavrus said.

"The scientific process is never 100 percent sure and it could be proven wrong," McKinley added.

"But I would say that the chances of that based on all of the best information at this current time are incredibly slim. And even though that possibility is out there, it would be irresponsible of us as a society not to act based on the best scientific information we have at the moment, which is that humans are causing the warming of the planet," she said.



I can't believe this guy even feels safe going to his office with the kind of threats and intimidation tactics being leveled at him by the crazed, bloodthirsty eggheads of his local scientific community.

He'll be in my prayers.
 
2007-06-18 3:31:09 PM  
Let's get something straight.

Neocons reject global warming because it's just a libtard conspiracy to take their money for environmental causes and cripple big business.

Libtards embrace global warming because it reassures them that they are so much smarter than the neocons, as no enlightened person could reasonably object to its tenets.

Perhaps 5% of the population holds a well-reasoned opinion on global warming.

/Not in that 5%
//Doesn't care
///Uses CFLs and bikes to work
 
2007-06-18 3:32:50 PM  
Good on him. It is funny how he points out the obvious media bias.

"Reporters will often call the meteorology building seeking the opinion of a scientist and some beginning graduate student will pick up the phone and say he or she is a meteorologist, Bryson said. "And that goes in the paper as 'scientists say.'"

Awesome. Take that Ron Burgundy!!!
 
2007-06-18 3:44:15 PM  
GW is a very very real thing.

People are too stupid to separate out the facts from the politics.
 
2007-06-18 3:44:46 PM  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
 
2007-06-18 3:44:59 PM  
agree with him. He's kind of a big deal around here.
 
2007-06-18 3:47:52 PM  
kmmontandon: I'm still trying to figure out what the profit motive is supposed to be for the so-called Global Warming Conspiracy.

Go ask Saint Gore how the company he helped start stands to gain from a cap and trade system for CO2 emissions.

Don't expect him to tell the truth though!
 
2007-06-18 3:52:14 PM  
Ok, mr. scientist, how about you debunk some of the current information that states humans are a contributing factor in global warming. You know, with data, like a scientist. Not like an old man with the 'I know what I'm talking about because I'm old' mentality.

People aren't just saying global warming is man made because it makes them feel good. They are saying it because the data supports that hypothesis.
 
2007-06-18 3:54:48 PM  
Pfft, your anti-global warming scientist isn't good looking enough to be believable

i199.photobucket.comView Full Size


FTA: I have now worked for zero dollars since I retired, long enough that I have paid back the people of Wisconsin every cent they paid me to give me a wonderful, wonderful career. So we are even now. And I feel good about that," said Bryson.

You're also going to have trouble convincing me he can do math and isn't crazy.
 
2007-06-18 3:55:42 PM  
What's funny is that I googled "Father of Climatology" and found something about Dr. Helmut Landsberg (this) from Weather.gov, and a whole lot of blog posts about this article.

Then I went to Google Scholar and looked up Dr. Bryson. I found this abstract, in which he says that "ARCHAEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE SUGGESTS A LONG PATTERN OF INTERMITTENT OCCUPATION WITH MAN PLAYING AN IMPORTANT PART IN MAKING THE DESERT" and discusses the possibility of further anthropogenic climate change, at least more locally.

So then I searched for papers by Bryson with the phrase "anthropogenic climate change" in them and found only 5. Only one of those (I can't access the text of all of them, however) appears to actually dispute anthropogenic climate change, and it's a non-peer-reviewed opinion essay (here: http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0028-6087(199323)24%3A4%3C783%3AEEAGCA%3E2.0.CO %3B2-Q).

Just saying.
 
2007-06-18 3:56:36 PM  
Vic Sage: Go ask Saint Gore how the company he helped start stands to gain from a cap and trade system for CO2 emissions.

Does he pay kickbacks to researchers whose findings support the theory?
 
2007-06-18 3:58:26 PM  
I'm always afraid that people are going to go, "Wait, we AREN'T causing global warming? Hand me that can of CFCS. :spray:" when something like this comes out.

Whether or not global warming is happening, and whether or not man is causing it, and whether or not it has to do specifically with greenhouse gases, isn't it just, you know, kinda smart to be on the safe side? I mean, if we cut down on emissions and whatnot, and it turns out that global warming was a mistake or a hoax, we're still better off. But if we stop cutting down and pick up life as before, and it ends up that global warming is really true, man, we are all totally screwed.
 
2007-06-18 3:59:28 PM  
Jon Snow: 1. The Little Ice Age and MWP were regional, not global.
2. He's ignoring the basic science of the greenhouse effect.


There are numerous bore hole measurements that disagree with this. Don't simply rely on the Mann reconstructions, they have serious statistical flaws.

3. The rise in temperature rose sharply with the rise of anthropogenic CO2.

CO2 rose AFTER temperature, 800 years after. Cause PRECEDES effect. Causality is a basic scientific concept you can't just throw it out to suit your needs.

4. The Urban Heat Island effect cannot explain the rise of global temperatures.

Unless UHI sites are preferentially used to measure that temperature.

5. He's doing nothing more than repeated previously debunked talking points and relying on his "authority" as a paleo-climatologist, but offers no scientific evidence for his claims, and none of his previous peer-reviewed work does either.

So you want him to prove a negative? Perhaps you should be much more skeptical about the outrageous claims made by the AWG crowd instead of requiring that somebody perform an impossible act.
 
2007-06-18 4:00:57 PM  
Ghost of Christmas Presents Neocons reject global warming because it's just a libtard conspiracy to take their money for environmental causes and cripple big business.

Libtards embrace global warming because it reassures them that they are so much smarter than the neocons, as no enlightened person could reasonably object to its tenets.


My overgeneralized guess is that liberals are predisposed to global warming, becuase it paints a pessimistic view of the world. Conservatives do not like it as much, because they are optimistic.

Compare this to the Peak Oil junk science (i.e., we'll run out in the next 4 years). Many liberals will grasp onto Peak Oil, because it paints a "doom and gloom" view of the world. That's fascinating to me, because you can easily find liberals who hold onto both Peak Oil theories and Global Warming theories, even though one is supported by a majority of scientists and the other is not.

/Ya, I'm overgeneralizing all liberals
 
2007-06-18 4:01:31 PM  
Bryson said he recently wrote something on the subject and two graduate students told him he was wrong, citing research done by one of their professors. That professor, Bryson noted, is probably the student of one of his students.

Damn young'ns. How dare they question their elders by citing research or arguments based on logic.
 
2007-06-18 4:03:23 PM  
Here is the old crowd telling the young stupid hippies to get off his climate. If this was anyother field of science the people claiming it would have been ripped to pieces already.
/I think i will believe him, he has experience and a level head.
//Suck it, PETA/Green Piece hippies. The old folks are calling your on your bull.
 
2007-06-18 4:04:28 PM  
Why does he hate America?
 
2007-06-18 4:05:08 PM  
KrispyKringle: Does he pay kickbacks to researchers whose findings support the theory?

Al Gore: O holy farking shiat the sky is farking falling!
Politician: O holy farking shiat we need to do something!
Scientist: O farking yes, I am an expert I can tell you what to do!
Politician: O farking good, here is some money!
 
2007-06-18 4:06:54 PM  
Vic Sage: There are numerous bore hole measurements that disagree with this. Don't simply rely on the Mann reconstructions, they have serious statistical flaws.

Disagree with what? Jon was referring to the greenhouse effect, not to any given CO2 reconstructions. There's no disagreement with the mechanism of the greenhouse effect, which this guy implies (by saying that CO2 has no effect).

CO2 rose AFTER temperature, 800 years after. Cause PRECEDES effect. Causality is a basic scientific concept you can't just throw it out to suit your needs.

Currently? I don't believe that's correct. Previous warming periods, yes, but not the current one. The latest temperature spike we see starting only about 200 years ago (e.g., here).

Unless UHI sites are preferentially used to measure that temperature.

True. Are there data that indicate that if we remove urban measurements, there is no temperature change? Would that not be inconsistent with upper atmosphere temperature increases we've seen?
 
2007-06-18 4:07:21 PM  
What austerity101 said.

Why is this so difficult for people to understand? Why so much anger at taking precautions against what could possibly be the end of the world as we know it?

It really shouldn't be a political issue but I guess some see admitting to a climate problem is accepting some sort of left wing victory.
 
2007-06-18 4:08:32 PM  
Vic Sage: Al Gore: O holy farking shiat the sky is farking falling!
Politician: O holy farking shiat we need to do something!
Scientist: O farking yes, I am an expert I can tell you what to do!
Politician: O farking good, here is some money!


Strangely, most of our politicians seem to believe the opposite. Only recently did the Bush administration even admit that there might be a warming trend, no?

Probably because they're courageous enough to stand up to the conspirators.

Also, what about the grants that have been repeatedly offered by uninterested altruists like Exxon for any paper that disputes current research? Surely that balances out all of Gore's dirty money, no?
 
2007-06-18 4:08:53 PM  
Liet-Kynes would like to have a word with him.
 
2007-06-18 4:12:25 PM  
He retired in 1985, but has gone into the office almost every day since. He does it without pay.

0_o

He is obviously crazy.
 
2007-06-18 4:12:30 PM  
Won't somebody PLEASE think about the children???
 
2007-06-18 4:14:50 PM  
FTFA:It's almost a religion. Where you have to believe in anthropogenic (or man-made) global warming or else you are nuts."

QFT
 
2007-06-18 4:17:00 PM  
But isnt the genocidal evidence in Darfur evidence no one can refut or ignore.. when will you people realize....
 
2007-06-18 4:18:34 PM  
A newspaper article didn't quote data and facts and figures???? Oh NOES!?!?! He must be terribly wrong and an idiot! Why didn't he just print all the data in the local newspaper? How comes our local journalistssss didn't turn this into a scientific articles? Oh NOES!1!! Now we can all surely decide that this man is a quack! Thank you local media!
 
2007-06-18 4:20:28 PM  
tglems: A newspaper article didn't quote data and facts and figures???? Oh NOES!?!?! He must be terribly wrong and an idiot! Why didn't he just print all the data in the local newspaper? How comes our local journalistssss didn't turn this into a scientific articles? Oh NOES!1!! Now we can all surely decide that this man is a quack! Thank you local media!

You must've missed the post where I went and searched for papers by him on Google Scholar and found one nice little non-peer-reviewed essay where he says there's no such thing as anthropogenic climate change, and a bunch of older peer reviewed research papers where he does things like discuss the ways in which agriculture has changed the climate in Indian deserts.
 
2007-06-18 4:23:28 PM  
Ghost of Christmas Presents: Perhaps 5% of the population holds a well-reasoned opinion on global warming.

I absolutely agree with you, except that I think that 5% estimate is too high. Look at the arguments above; people regurgitating factoids that they barely understand, factoids fed to them by their ideological leaders on both sides of the political spectrum.
 
2007-06-18 4:26:32 PM  
"Father of scientific climatology?" Pffft. And who anointed him that? I'm guessing he did.

Google "Reid Bryson" "father of scientific climatology", and you get the same basic article 12 times, with virtually all of them parroting the same nonspecific text "known as the ..." or "considered by many to be the ..." which sounds suspiciously like it was lifted from a press release or a self-written bio...

Yes, we're just coming out of a mini ice age, and it's surprising how many people have no idea about how recent the last one was, but by itself, its evidenciary value is exactly zero in terms of establishing whether humans are or are not impacting climate change.
 
2007-06-18 4:28:14 PM  
Toonol: people regurgitating factoids that they barely understand, factoids fed to them by their ideological leaders on both sides of the political spectrum.

I'm not saying I disagree with you--I think this is pretty common--but why not point it out when you see it?
 
2007-06-18 4:28:32 PM  
kmmontandon: I'm still trying to figure out what the profit motive is supposed to be for the so-called Global Warming Conspiracy.

This whole "carbon offset" bullshiat for one.

The whole "hybrids are less evil" bullshiat for another.

Then there's the profit from algore's movie. And other various entertainment media on the subject.

Just saying... if you can't see who's trying to make a profit out of this, you aren't looking hard enough.
 
2007-06-18 4:29:31 PM  
"If you saw smoke in your house, it would be irresponsible not to get your family out, right?"

unless it was just Uncle Merv. doin' his thing.
 
2007-06-18 4:33:37 PM  
Raindogday

Pascal has a similar theory about belief in God(possible benefit outweighs any negatives) but not many find that too compelling either.
 
2007-06-18 4:34:34 PM  
2wolves: There really is very little argument that CFC and many other pollutions are dangerous. This guy is simply arguing the CO2 isn't a problem right now.

(We've changed the atmospheric CO2 by less than 0.1% in the last hundred years. This small change is hard to model in reality.
 
2007-06-18 4:35:44 PM  
Is this guy the best the "climate change is a myth" crowd can come up with?

Bryson said he recently wrote something on the subject and two graduate students told him he was wrong, citing research done by one of their professors. That professor, Bryson noted, is probably the student of one of his students.

"Well, that professor happened to be wrong," he said.


Why is he wrong? Because his current research does not reach the same conclusion that your research did 30 years ago? Or because you're older and you supposedly know better than him?

Sorry, but the "I was doing this while you were still in diapers" excuse doesn't hold up, it just characterizes you as a bitter old coot. Scientists don't have to have 50 years of experience to make a discovery or conduct proper research. The structure of DNA wasn't discovered by some 80-year-old biologist at Cambridge, but by 2 scientists younger than 40 years of age, one of whom hadn't even completed his Ph.D. at the time of the discovery.

At any rate, the last sentence of TFA sums up the climate change argument relatively well.
 
2007-06-18 4:36:43 PM  
jonny_q: This whole "carbon offset" bullshiat for one.

That part is bullshiat, though I'm not sure how profitable it's really been.

The whole "hybrids are less evil" bullshiat for another.

The incentive there is primarily fuel costs, I suspect, not being environmentally friendly.

Then there's the profit from algore's movie. And other various entertainment media on the subject.

There's just as much profit from things like Channel4's "documentary."

The key point, though, is that none of those profit sources you mentioned--and they all could well be valid--are directed at research scientists. As far as I know, Toyota hasn't split Prius profits (if they've made any off of them) with prominent research scientists, the carbon offset companies don't fund university labs, and I doubt Gore's directed much of his own money towards research, either (though I guess it's possible he paid some scientists consultation fees for the production of the movie).

In short, none of those sources of profit--and there are indeed people profiting off of this--are credible sources of scientific bias.
 
2007-06-18 4:41:06 PM  
mindstalker
We've changed the atmospheric CO2 by less than 0.1% in the last hundred years.

AND the global temperature has increased 1 degree in the last hundred years.

the implications are clear. June 18 2107, the temperature will be 93 degrees.
 
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