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(Some Guy)   Boston Globe, 2005: "Netanyahu is an idiot for thinking withdrawal from Gaza will breed terrorism." 2007: "Sharon was an idiot to withdraw from Gaza and allow terrorism to breed there"   (squaringtheglobe.blogspot.com) divider line
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    More: Obvious  
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509 clicks; posted to Politics » on 15 Jun 2007 at 6:33 PM (15 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



48 Comments     (+0 »)
 
Nemo's Brother
2007-06-15 5:37:37 PM  
That's typical Liberalism for you.
 
oldebayer
2007-06-15 5:55:17 PM  
They flip-flopped on Saddam, too.

/I, on the other had, have never changed my mind on anything in my entire life.
 
DarthBrooks
2007-06-15 5:56:00 PM  
[image from d.yimg.com too old to be available]
It's all good, yo.
 
SherKhan
2007-06-15 5:57:29 PM  
Maybe Bibi shouldn't have had Yitzhak murdered after all.
 
unlikely [OhFark]
2007-06-15 6:08:46 PM  
Because no other variables have changed between 2005 and now.
 
Timmy_McTiggot
2007-06-15 6:21:39 PM  
Nemo's Brother: That's typical Liberalism for you.

thefinkfile.comView Full Size
 
Marcus Aurelius [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2007-06-15 6:22:47 PM  
Ancient tribal conflicts suck. Taking sides in them is even worse.
 
DarthBrooks
2007-06-15 6:31:23 PM  
unlikely: Because no other variables have changed between 2005 and now.

Yeah - Gaza was just like Delaware two years ago.
 
RabidCanary
2007-06-15 6:35:54 PM  
newsimg.bbc.co.ukView Full Size

"The Christians will never take Jerusalem"
(Boston Globe March 1095 AD)
 
gopher321 [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2007-06-15 6:40:53 PM  
The question was never, "Will Jews give land for peace?"...the real question is, "Will Jews get peace for land?"

Giving land back to the Palestinians isn't going to appease them.
 
Running a-puck
2007-06-15 6:41:17 PM  
Or, alternately, these two editorials were written by different people who have differing views on the subject. I do not know if this is the case or not since there is no byline, but it is something to consider.
 
Fart_Machine
2007-06-15 6:46:09 PM  
Running a-puck
Or, alternately, these two editorials were written by different people who have differing views on the subject.

This is a FARK thread - your logic has no place here.
 
Smellvin
2007-06-15 6:47:09 PM  
Q: How many Palestinians does it take to change a light bulb?

A: Trick question. They'll refuse to change it and then blame the darkness on the Jews.


/Just learned that yesterday and thought this thread was a worthy place to share it
 
BoozePenguin
2007-06-15 6:49:46 PM  
Running a-puck wins.

starstore.comView Full Size


nothing to see here, move along
 
Eric Hexagon
2007-06-15 6:49:57 PM  
Just another example of how things have changed in a post 1-31-07 world.
 
Running a-puck
2007-06-15 6:50:57 PM  
Fart_Machine: This is a FARK thread - your logic has no place here.

I know, I'm sorry.

/hangs head in shame
 
chezzmxd3
2007-06-15 6:53:53 PM  
Running a-puck
correct, but if these were the actual editorials of the editorial board of the boston globe then it is the opinion of the entire "the boston globe" saying that and not a writer
 
zerkalo
2007-06-15 6:54:13 PM  
News would be more logical if it was written and editorialized by one single person or institution. A ministry of "propaganda" if you will
 
The Pete Stanis
2007-06-15 7:01:40 PM  
Eric Hexagon
I think that things have changed in this post 6-14-07 world.
 
ComicBookGuy
2007-06-15 7:04:08 PM  
Ooh!! Ooh!! Lemme guess the conservative idea of this thread: leftist paper is inconsistent, therefore ALL media left-of-center is not to be trusted?
 
Eric Hexagon
2007-06-15 7:07:52 PM  
The Pete Stanis - Even easier to nevar forget!
 
Tubercular Ox
2007-06-15 7:30:27 PM  
ComicBookGuy: Ooh!! Ooh!! Lemme guess the conservative idea of this thread: leftist paper is inconsistent, therefore ALL media left-of-center is not to be trusted?

Given the blog title, I suspect the author doesn't have any agenda other than "rag on the Boston Globe." Probably politically motivated, but also probably not a call for sweeping generalizations.
 
Goldsfool
2007-06-15 8:15:52 PM  
What? Opinions can change with the availability of time and new information?
 
21-7-b
2007-06-15 8:57:36 PM  
i think that after the article was written, israel shelled the fark out of gaza and blockaded it, while at the same time supplying arms to fatah -who were increasingly seen as weak, western puppets. nope. i really can't imagine how that might help extremists legitimize a power grab.
 
Prospero424
2007-06-15 8:58:26 PM  
I see this tactic used to attack the "liberal media" so often now that I'm starting to think it's something the right wing propaganda set deliberately agreed upon.

Don't like that a newspaper - ANY newspaper - reports, you know, the truth occassionally rather than just repeating your preferred form of bullshiat? Just pretend that their editorial staff is made up of a single person, find two editorials that contradict each other in even a small way, then biatch to everyone who will listen to you AND are ignorant/stupid enough to not question the single-person editorial staff theory about how "hypocritical" the newspaper is.

Bonus: use implied anti-semitism for plus-1 intimidation

Extra bonus: get news aggregator sites like Fark to link to your lame assertions with implausibly credulous headlines

Manipulating their fellows is all a game to these people - a game they're very, very good at. But watching so many people buy into obviously deceptive crap like this really does get to me, sometimes.
 
TheGreatGazoo
2007-06-15 9:03:32 PM  
It's easy to complain and say what is wrong in the middle east.

The hard part is coming up with a real solution

/not sure there IS a real solution
 
21-7-b
2007-06-15 9:06:05 PM  
TheGreatGazoo

it's not that difficult. if you want a solution you have to marginalize the hardliners
 
BoozePenguin
2007-06-15 9:46:20 PM  
21-7-b

it's not that difficult

That's very easy to say for somebody sitting behind a computer screen on the other side of the world.

Many have tried. What makes you think the issues are so simple?
 
21-7-b
2007-06-15 9:57:51 PM  
BoozePenguin

That's very easy to say for somebody sitting behind a computer screen on the other side of the world.

indeed, it is probably easier for me to take that position than someone, say, who had lost some family or friends within the last couple of weeks. i'm happy that you are able to realize that

Many have tried.

indeed, you are correct again - though you should also mention that the hardliners have tended to resist being marginalized, and try to use anythingthey can to justify escalation

What makes you think the issues are so simple?

because people are pretty simple creatures, BoozePenguin
 
trog69
2007-06-15 10:48:54 PM  
21-7-b: because people are pretty simple creatures, BoozePenguin

Agreed. Unfortunately the issues are not so clear cut, so when the simple creatures hear the hardliner's relatively simple answers to these questions, rather than marginalize, they put them at the forefront.

/fully realize how simplistic my comment is.
 
mrpsiko
2007-06-15 11:58:22 PM  
Gaza's disastrous independence is showing that the Palestinians cannot govern themselves as a unified whole. In similar ways to Iraq, the religious, political and tribal tensions have taken precedent over visions of national solidarity.

The Palestinians have, in the past, made legitimate claims of victimhood at the hands of the Israeli's. However, their legitimate claims are overlooked by the rest of the world because they constantly complain about their situations while failing to constructively remedy them. If the world is laughing at the Palestinians for their ineptitude, they have only themselves to blame.

I believed all along that Israel's pullout from Gaza was a political move made to justify any future military action. The Palestinians were given a chance by Israel and Israel will point back to it if future violence breaks out. That's not to say that Israel didn't pick sides in the Palestinian power struggle, but it sure as hell beats bulldozing all of Gaza in terms of political clout.

I don't wish violence on anyone, but I'm waiting for the shiat storm to only increase in strength.
 
Brubold
2007-06-16 12:13:47 AM  
Those Jooos just can't get anything right can they lefties?
 
RockIsDead
2007-06-16 12:14:52 AM  
Nemo's Brother: That's typical Liberalism for you.

QFT
 
larry00
2007-06-16 7:43:33 AM  
Hmmmm A military man with a peaceful solution to a military problem. OK
Would work except only the Israeli's want peace, the Palestinians want Jewish blood but are willing to accept Fatah blood in the meantime as a means to an end.
That would be an end of the Jews.
Thanks to the Mufti of Jerusalem.
Before the Mufti's arrival the Jews and the palestinians lived side by side in peace for hundreds of years.
 
TappingTheVein
2007-06-16 8:37:03 AM  
As much as i can't stand Netanyahu i have to admit that basically everything he said about Gaza did happen.
 
RanDomino
2007-06-16 12:11:13 PM  
mrpsiko
The Palestinians have, in the past, made legitimate claims of victimhood at the hands of the Israeli's. However, their legitimate claims are overlooked by the rest of the world because they constantly complain about their situations while failing to constructively remedy them.

What, as if the Palestinians have a hive mind?
It's total chaos. It's completely unfair to expect that kind of unified action.
You want to talk about who has no legitimate claim of victimhood- Israel continues to build, expand, and defend illegal settlements! Israel has a unified government in complete control, so there is no excuse and therefore no moral standing.
 
Edsel
2007-06-16 1:26:21 PM  
The U.S. and Israel did absolutely nothing to empower Abbas and the moderates. And it's supposed to be a SURPRISE that Hamas gained power and overthrew Fatah in Gaza? More like a self-fulfilling prophecy.
 
TappingTheVein
2007-06-16 1:52:11 PM  
Edsel: The U.S. and Israel did absolutely nothing to empower Abbas and the moderates

Not true And that was the reason why Hamas considered them "collaborators". The problem was that Hamas had majority in Fatah's own parliament.

And your group of "moderates" had their own share of islamic genocidal agendas.

One thing i admire about Hamas is that they have no problems speaking their mind and are honest about their goals, unlike Fatah.
 
TappingTheVein
2007-06-16 1:55:29 PM  
RanDomino: It's total chaos. It's completely unfair to expect that kind of unified action.

So you're saying that the palestinians can't govern themselves ? that the elected bunch of murderers can't control their own gangs of terrorists ?

One would expect from the elected government to govern.
 
Sensei Can You See [TotalFark]
2007-06-16 2:11:06 PM  
Edsel: The U.S. and Israel did absolutely nothing to empower Abbas and the moderates. And it's supposed to be a SURPRISE that Hamas gained power and overthrew Fatah in Gaza? More like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Okay, so lemme make sure I've got the gist of the debate so far:

1. Benjamin Netanyahu said, in 2005, that if Israel withdrew from its occupied territories it would breed terrorism. The Boston Globe criticized this statement, saying it was ridiculous.

2. Later that same year, Ariel Sharon did indeed withdraw all troops and settlements from the occupied territories. The Boston Globe praised this move.

3. Now, two years later, exactly what Netanyahu predicted has come to pass. The Boston Globe admitted he was right all along and urged Israel to re-enter the territories I mean, rightly criticized Israel for having withdrawn. After all, everyone is entitled to change their mind.

4. If Israel and/or the US had propped up Abbas, there would be shrieks of outrage that we're supporting terrorism.

5. But since no one propped up Abbas, it's the US's/Israel's fault for not helping him maintain order.

6. Under no circumstances may any of the other Arab nations in the Middle East--all of which refuse to let Palestinian refugees in--be charged with any blame.

7. Nor should we blame the Palestinians themselves--they just aren't ready to be self-governing.

8. But it's still unfair of Israel to occupy those territories, even though they can't manage without Israeli intervention.

9. Which is also Israel's fault.

That about right?
 
Speaker2Animals [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2007-06-16 2:41:31 PM  
Yeah, that's about right, except for the fact there's a simple solution to the Middle East problems, at least according to some simple minds here.
 
Lard_Baron
2007-06-16 5:27:13 PM  
The UN do not recognise the Israeli withdrawal from Gaza.
They still hold Israel responsible for the well being of the citizens

quote
"Gaza remained under occupation despite the withdrawal of settlers in 2005. "In effect, following Israel's withdrawal, Gaza became a sealed-off, imprisoned and occupied territory," the UN rapporteur said.


Read it your selves warning its a Pdf.

From an Israeli paper Ynet.
thank God for Israeli journalists..

Highest-security open-air prison on earth

Today Gaza faces one of the most brutal military sieges in recent memory. Which begs the question: What does a lot of red tape have to do with the current crisis?

Last August, Israel withdrew its troops and settlers from the Gaza Strip. The world rejoiced, rushing to declare that Gaza was now "free." So why is it that Palestinians are not satisfied, we hear time and again?

Why, almost a year on, would they capture an Israeli soldier, and continue to fire homemade rockets into Israeli towns when they could have, built a better life for themselves?

To say that Gaza is now under siege, despite how bad things are, is to presume that things were relatively normal before.

The reality is that Gaza has been under effective Israeli siege for over a decade now, subject to the merciless grip of a complex Israeli matrix of administrative control that seeps into and affects every aspect of our lives.

Only several months on from the Disengagement, Gaza resembled little more than the largest, highest-security open-air prison on earth.

read more
 
RanDomino
2007-06-16 6:14:07 PM  
TappingTheVein
So you're saying that the palestinians can't govern themselves ?

They've never been given a chance. Look at what happens when the party popular with Palestinians is unpopular with the Israeli right-wing!
 
TappingTheVein
2007-06-16 6:39:55 PM  
Lard_Baron: Read it your selves

Naturally such a balanced report from the UN. Maybe they suggest Israel should just invite everyone in, i'm sure things will go smoothly. It should be a first among two entities at war.

The palestinians have an open border with their friends the Egyptians. Too bad they only deal with guns and explosives.

RanDomino: They've never been given a chance. Look at what happens when the party popular with Palestinians is unpopular with the Israeli right-wing!

Bullshiat, you again ignore the fact that this party is a terrorist organization openly calling and working for the destruction of Israel. The same party refusing to recognize Israel's existance.

Small details, i know, but kinda important.

You are the one who claim that Hamas are "not irrational". I still haven't decided if you are that naive or that stupid.
 
Lard_Baron
2007-06-16 8:12:07 PM  
TappingTheVein: Naturally such a balanced report from the UN. Maybe they suggest Israel should just invite everyone in, i'm sure things will go smoothly. It should be a first among two entities at war.

Well, naturally I never expect Israel to pay the slightest attention to the UN.
Since 67, they havent get a fark about the UN.

But if the UN call Gaza an open prison and the Israeli press call it an open prison...maybe they got a point.

Who cares anyway, its only the Pallys eh? farkem.
They should be thankful you allow them to live at all right?
 
RanDomino
2007-06-16 8:53:40 PM  
Conventionally, organized violence is not inherently irrational. Hamas is not any more irrational than any other state-like entity. (I disagree with all organized violence, obv, but I hate hypocrisy even more)

There is a difference between "Evil" and "Irrational"!
 
TappingTheVein
2007-06-17 5:07:07 AM  
Lard_Baron: Well, naturally I never expect Israel to pay the slightest attention to the UN.

Maybe if the UN wasn't the one-sided farce that it is.

But if the UN call Gaza an open prison and the Israeli press call it an open prison...maybe they got a point.

Again, what do you suggest ? letting them freely roam into Israel ? that's not exactly a bright tactic to do with someone trying to kill you.

Who cares anyway, its only the Pallys eh? farkem.
They should be thankful you allow them to live at all right?

They should accept responsibility for their own actions and cut their connections with the islamic genocidal lunatics. Maybe they should start thinking about allowing the jews to live first.

RanDomino: There is a difference between "Evil" and "Irrational"!

I'm honestly curious, how do you do it ? some form of hypnosis ?
How do you ignore reality in such a commendable fashion ? or are you talking about the other Hamas, the ones with unicorns and lollipops ?
 
bigmatty87
2007-06-17 1:40:19 PM  
The difference between evil and irrational is only philosophical. Here in the real world, you still have to stop the people acting this way, regardless of whether they are evil or irrational.
 
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