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(The Newspaper)   Texas plans road surveillance cameras to ticket people doing 73 in a 70 zone. System measures average speed so you can't slow down just for the cameras   (thenewspaper.com) divider line
    More: Asinine  
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13806 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 Jun 2007 at 2:26 PM (14 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



292 Comments     (+0 »)


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2007-06-11 1:23:32 PM  
Answering the question, how could driving through Texas suck worse? Eventually they'll just electronically disable your vehicle and force you to bust rocks on the roadside and sleep in your car. State trucks would be alerted to throw food and water out to you as they drove by on business. Few could survive a walk out across the endless hellscape and back to American soil. Suicide would be the most common response, with the state making a profit on the sale of used vehicles and parts.
 
2007-06-11 1:54:40 PM  
It's all about the money.
 
2007-06-11 1:59:38 PM  
I hope they get photos of the driver's face.

They had red light cameras installed here in Minneapolis any they were discontinued due to the fact they didn't get a shot of the actual driver.
 
2007-06-11 2:10:02 PM  
The Onanist

They got rid of ours because they were run by a private company. The money from tickets was supposed to be going to education but was instead being funneled to this private company. A good ruling finally shut them all down.
 
2007-06-11 2:19:05 PM  
The Onanist,

I hope they get photos of the driver's face.

They had red light cameras installed here in Minneapolis any they were discontinued due to the fact they didn't get a shot of the actual driver.


I hope you DIAF for supporting this nonsense.
 
2007-06-11 2:28:00 PM  
I hate speed traps. Ones where no human sees you doing anything wrong are even worse.
 
2007-06-11 2:28:22 PM  
If you're not breaking the law, there's nothing to fear, citizen!

ahahahahahahahahhahaaaa
suck it, Texas
 
2007-06-11 2:28:28 PM  
Cash-grab.
 
2007-06-11 2:29:11 PM  
If it measures average speed, then that's just retarded. You could go flying through the speed trap, then when you realize that you are in the speed trap you could slam on your brakes and drive real real slow through the rest of it. And everyone knows that if you want to be safe on the interstate, you drive real slow.
 
2007-06-11 2:30:07 PM  
Still no cure for cancer.
/obligatory
 
2007-06-11 2:30:24 PM  
Challenge any ticket you get. The State retains the burden of proof, and that's beyond a reasonable doubt on all elements of the crime. The Onanist is correct; without a shot of your face that can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you were driving the car, the state fails its burden and you're due an acquittal.

/This isn't legal advice. Talk to a lawyer if you're really going to do something like this.
 
2007-06-11 2:30:29 PM  
It'll be another civil fine that you don't have to pay. Just like the Houston red light cameras.
 
2007-06-11 2:30:31 PM  
fifthhorseman

If you're not breaking the law, there's nothing to fear, citizen!

Amen.
 
2007-06-11 2:30:40 PM  
FFFFARKED
 
2007-06-11 2:30:44 PM  
Don't the citizens of the proud state of Texas have a solution for this though? Namely, shooting the damn cameras as fast as they are put up?
 
2007-06-11 2:31:14 PM  
That's it. I need to move. AGAIN.

/live in TX, used to live in FL
//it's a toss-up which is nuttier
 
2007-06-11 2:31:18 PM  
73? LOL. Rick Perry will get to grease some more prison contractor palms to house all the people *that* dragnet will bring in. People drive two speeds on Texas highways: slow as fark and bat-outta-hell.
 
2007-06-11 2:31:36 PM  
I drove home last night and the average speed was 120-140 in the slow lane on a three lane highway
 
2007-06-11 2:31:37 PM  
Farked after 300 clicks?

Lame.
 
2007-06-11 2:31:54 PM  
of course, the cars of state officials will be allowed to blast right through these speed traps without being ticketed.
 
2007-06-11 2:32:24 PM  
It seems like a waste of taxpayers money that will generate a ton of revenue for the government.

What's not to like plebians?
 
2007-06-11 2:32:49 PM  
It can tell if you might have been speeding, but it can't tell if you've been drinking. Maybe they can measure how much your car was weaving as well. What's the standard deviation on a can of Bud Lite?
 
2007-06-11 2:32:56 PM  
Texas Prevails
 
2007-06-11 2:32:58 PM  
i don't see why this is such a problem. if the limit is 70 and you're going 75, you're going over the speed limit. it's not any different than coasting through a stop sign or parking in a handicapped space if you're not handicapped.
 
2007-06-11 2:33:05 PM  
I thought there was mo speed limit in Texas?
 
2007-06-11 2:33:35 PM  
Live Free or Die.
 
2007-06-11 2:33:48 PM  
Asinine? The best way to get bad laws changed is to enforce them consistently. If the speed limit is too low, then it's too low. If it should change depending on the conditions, then it should change depending on the conditions.

If the law is wrong, change it. Enforcement is not wrong.
 
2007-06-11 2:34:16 PM  
Here is how things like this are going to go down.

Speed.

Get your picture taken and a fine.

Crash and die or get injured.

Sue the state for having knowledge that you were endangering yourself and not stopping you.

End of life for speeding cameras. We'll need a volunteer.
 
2007-06-11 2:34:19 PM  
Lane83 2007-06-11 02:30:24 PM
Challenge any ticket you get. The State retains the burden of proof, and that's beyond a reasonable doubt on all elements of the crime. The Onanist is correct; without a shot of your face that can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you were driving the car, the state fails its burden and you're due an acquittal.

Havent I heard it here repeatedly that a ticket isnt a criminal offense, and therefore they DONT require 'beyond reasonable doubt' to stick it to you?
 
2007-06-11 2:34:25 PM  
platypusjones-

die
 
2007-06-11 2:34:26 PM  
Don't want a ticket? DONT SPEED!
 
2007-06-11 2:34:55 PM  
or not..
 
2007-06-11 2:35:09 PM  
Communist Toaster: I drove home last night and the average speed was 120-140 in the slow lane on a three lane highway

I don't believe you for a second, unless you're talking about Km/hr.
 
2007-06-11 2:35:45 PM  
Pxtl: Asinine? The best way to get bad laws changed is to enforce them consistently. If the speed limit is too low, then it's too low. If it should change depending on the conditions, then it should change depending on the conditions.

If the law is wrong, change it. Enforcement is not wrong.


Idealists are so adorable sometimes. Since the whole goal of this change is to milk money out of people that aren't really doing anything wrong, the last thing it will do is result in a speed limit increase.
 
2007-06-11 2:36:02 PM  
Smarshmallow

Click his profile. Is Canuck, like me, thinks in clicks.
 
2007-06-11 2:36:05 PM  
"if the limit is 70 and you're going 75, you're going over the speed limit."

"The best way to get bad laws changed is to enforce them consistently"

There it is. Either enforce it to the letter, or stop wasting my time. 71 is a ticket, or else nothing is a ticket.
 
2007-06-11 2:36:30 PM  
I think the 3 MPH over is a bit low. If I remember right when I was in Ohio it was 9mph for most highway patrol officers, according to several sources I talked to and read. I think a older cars speedometer could easily be off by a few MPH. Maybe one of the cars guys here can tell me if that's true.
 
2007-06-11 2:36:32 PM  
Lane83,

Challenge any ticket you get. The State retains the burden of proof, and that's beyond a reasonable doubt on all elements of the crime. The Onanist is correct; without a shot of your face that can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you were driving the car, the state fails its burden and you're due an acquittal.

/This isn't legal advice. Talk to a lawyer if you're really going to do something like this.


The state has already planned for this.

They'll do what the did in the case of the red-light cameras:

They issue the tickets as non-moving violations. They don't need to prove who was driving, and tickets for non-moving violations here aren't able to be challenged as is the case for moving violations.

The onus is not on the state to prove you were driving. They simply issue the citation to the owner of the vehicle, as they do for any parking ticket or other non-moving violation.

The upside is that you don't get any points on your license.

The downside is that it's a way to raise taxes without putting it to a vote.
 
2007-06-11 2:36:38 PM  
Over in the UK they throw a flaming "tyre" on the speed cameras. That'll fix their wagon...

Vandalize Speed Cameras Citizen! (POPS)
 
2007-06-11 2:37:37 PM  
Kinda sounds like the Van Cam they had in Hawaii for a time. Those things nearly started an uprising. The problem was that the Van Cams weren't targeting the real H-1 hazard: old asian ladies and gentlemen doing 40 mph in the left hand lane.
 
2007-06-11 2:37:45 PM  
platypusjones
i don't see why this is such a problem. if the limit is 70 and you're going 75, you're going over the speed limit. it's not any different than coasting through a stop sign or parking in a handicapped space if you're not handicapped.

Umm, perhaps because speedometers in non-police vehicles aren't certified, so your speedometer might indicate 70mph while you're really traveling at 75mph?

/Time to look into one of those "electrified" LP holders
//The kind that turns opaque when current is applied
 
2007-06-11 2:37:47 PM  
helenjane.comView Full Size

/not impressed
 
2007-06-11 2:38:10 PM  
It's all about the money.

If there's any doubt whether this is about money or about something else, check out how they go on and on about have "lucrative" and "profitable" this shiat is in other areas. The word "safety" isn't mentioned ONCE. It truly is all about money.
 
2007-06-11 2:38:55 PM  
I can't get the URL to work, but if it's really sending out tickets to everyoe's whoe average speed is above the speed limit, then it won't be possible to keep up with the demand. I mean it would literally have to ticket everybody who drove on that road. And would be disconnected after enough politicians got ticketed there.
 
2007-06-11 2:39:17 PM  
"I think a older cars speedometer could easily be off by a few MPH. Maybe one of the cars guys here can tell me if that's true."

True, especially if you've changed tire sizes and so forth.

But it's your responsibility to KNOW this about your vehicle, Citizen.
 
2007-06-11 2:39:48 PM  
Challenge any ticket you get. The State retains the burden of proof, and that's beyond a reasonable doubt on all elements of the crime. The Onanist is correct; without a shot of your face that can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you were driving the car, the state fails its burden and you're due an acquittal.

It doesn't matter who is driving the car here in Ga. The ticket gets paid or the cars registration is revoked.
 
2007-06-11 2:40:11 PM  
+/- 2mph is the best they can do? Utter nonsense.
 
2007-06-11 2:40:48 PM  
dubya

that's precisely my point. people will get in a tizzy and say well, i was only going 75 in the 70. or 25 in a 15. but what's the point of having a limit- like a speed limit or a stop sign or a yield sign- in the first place if it's unenforceable?

rico suave

hate the game blah blah blah
 
2007-06-11 2:41:00 PM  
Challenge any ticket you get. The State retains the burden of proof, and that's beyond a reasonable doubt on all elements of the crime. The Onanist is correct; without a shot of your face that can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that you were driving the car, the state fails its burden and you're due an acquittal.

They'll just make it a civil offense, instead of a criminal offense. The State doesn't need to "prove" anything in a civil case, because the burden of proof is far lower. I know of at least one state that already did that. (They don't use speed cameras, but I'm sure they will when they find out how profitable the TX cameras are.)
 
2007-06-11 2:41:36 PM  
Only two things come from Texas...
 
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