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(Village Voice)   Last year: New York Times won a Pulitzer for exposing the government's data mining for national security. This year: NYT announces it's data mining its own customers to increase profits   (villagevoice.com) divider line
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    More: Asinine  
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2639 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 08 May 2007 at 4:14 PM (15 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



64 Comments     (+0 »)


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Skleenar
2007-05-08 3:59:02 PM  
The judges would have also accepted: img.fark.net
 
Mordant
2007-05-08 4:07:53 PM  
whew, now it's ok for the government to do it.
 
The Stealth Hippopotamus
2007-05-08 4:08:18 PM  
One can write a nasty story about you, the other can lock you in jail for the rest of your life. This does not feel equal to me.

I did not know they won a Pulitzer for treason? Wow, times have changed. I miss the good old days
 
Whamdangler
2007-05-08 4:09:35 PM  
I doubt EITHER of them were "data mining". No one, but no one, "data mines" properly. What people/companies really do is run reports, just as they always have. They just CALL it data mining nowadays.
 
Gecko Gingrich
2007-05-08 4:12:02 PM  
One can choose to be or not to be a NYT customer, quite easily really, and therefore not be subject to its data mining. The same cannot be said of being a "customer" of the Government. This would only be img.fark.net or img.fark.net if the NYT lambasted data-mining in general. They may have, BTW, I didn't really follow the story.
 
Bastiat's Last Disciple
2007-05-08 4:16:59 PM  
Gecko Gingrich

What he said. Except, I usually refer to "customers" of the government as captives or slaves.
 
mediaho
2007-05-08 4:18:12 PM  
One is a government and one is a for-profit business, right? What's your point?
 
Mr. Anon
2007-05-08 4:19:11 PM  
Just think if other companies start datamining their customers. Thank god it is just this one and there isn't a gigantic farking industry built around getting more information about people through list services like experian, equifax etc.
 
RadioAaron
2007-05-08 4:20:21 PM  
0H N0ES!!1 ITS TEH HYPOCRACYS!1!!11!1oneoneeon
 
Adam Baum
2007-05-08 4:21:08 PM  
[image from tshirtwatch.com too old to be available]

data mine and nobody elses!
 
This Is Bold Text [TotalFark]
2007-05-08 4:21:14 PM  
I worked for a data mining company and I'm getting a kick out of these replies. Data mining is about extracting further information and finding patterns in what you already know about someone, not digging through their garbage or monitoring their bank accounts. It's neither illegal nor immoral.
 
Dumle
2007-05-08 4:22:45 PM  
Whamdangler: I doubt EITHER of them were "data mining". No one, but no one, "data mines" properly. What people/companies really do is run reports, just as they always have. They just CALL it data mining nowadays.

Pretty much. Nowadays, data mining = statistics. Well, kinda generalized but that's what companies do when they 'data mine'.
 
mediaho
2007-05-08 4:23:17 PM  
This Is Bold Text: Data mining is about extracting further information and finding patterns in what you already know about someone

Isn't that what a survey is for?
 
tweekster
2007-05-08 4:25:22 PM  
mediaho:

Surveys are a horrible way of getting info.
They are extremely difficult to design properly and they have low response rates.
 
StatJunkie
2007-05-08 4:25:33 PM  
I'm with bold text on this one.

I mine data too.
 
This Is Bold Text [TotalFark]
2007-05-08 4:28:17 PM  
mediaho
Isn't that what a survey is for?
Suppose you worked at a company that gave loans. Some clients result in a profit, some in a loss, depending on how much interest they rack up and whether they default. You can't ask on a survey whether they plan on defaulting or paying in full or anything like that. You can ask how much they earn, where they live, what kind of car they drive, how many pets they have, etc. From that information, and the info you gained from previous clients, you can datamine and generate a probability formula for how likely they are to result in a profit.
 
tomcatadam
2007-05-08 4:28:30 PM  
I did not know they won a Pulitzer for treason? Wow, times have changed. I miss the good old days

Actually, it was for exposing treason.

One can write a nasty story about you, the other can lock you in jail for the rest of your life. This does not feel equal to me.

Well, the other one can also mess up your life, they just have to put a lot more effort into it than it's worth.
 
Bhopper
2007-05-08 4:29:43 PM  
smitty is terribly confused - when you *register* at the NY Times website, you are agreeing to abide by their Terms of Service and their stated Privacy Policy. Not quite the case when the govt profiles you from multiple records collected from various places w/o your knowledge or consent, is it?

non-story from a has-been, now free NY rag trying to bash the Times.
 
darkfyre
2007-05-08 4:30:35 PM  
A corporation mining data on the limited information it has on its customer base is a far cry from a government - which is privvy to much deeper information - doing the same.
 
apeiron242
2007-05-08 4:33:37 PM  
Data mining is not necessarily evil. As long as they aren't violating the law, selling personal data, it must just be good business. Maybe they can target their ads better and get more revenue.
 
SwingDancer
2007-05-08 4:33:59 PM  
It's all about intent. The papers intent is to increase profits(no problems with that) the governments intent is to stratify a populace in order to group people for unequal treatment. I have problems with that. If the government was using the information to make the government more efficient in doing it's job, so it can offer better services to the populace(this is what it does with the census, amongst other things)

The article is biased against something it doesnt properly understand. Although even at the end they have a quote from someone who states what happens when the government steps in and takes the data for its own uses. It all depends on what they are using it for.
No matter who's in charge of the Government the Reds or the Blues this is wrong. If you dont understand it, i'm sorry go drink your individual parties Koolaid with mr jones.

/ i am in such a biatchy mood today, sorry
// LSD laced slashies
 
Mordant
2007-05-08 4:34:44 PM  
Hey, submitter...

One day President Hillary may want to use such methods to get information about you.

Still want to defend the government ?

No, I didn't think so.
 
Sunny Ray
2007-05-08 4:34:49 PM  
People that devote energy to hate a Newspaper must lead really sad and pitiful lives. But, keep it up, its entertaining.
 
RabidCanary
2007-05-08 4:35:57 PM  
They don't mine.
 
degreeless
2007-05-08 4:37:01 PM  
TIBT
I worked for a data mining company and I'm getting a kick out of these replies. Data mining is about extracting further information and finding patterns about someone, by digging through their transaction history or monitoring usage statistics, without the customer's knowledge It's not illegal but it is immoral.

Fixed that for you. If you worked for gator.com. Take your offer companion and cram it. I can't tell you how many computers I had to clean that kind of crap off of.
 
SwingDancer
2007-05-08 4:38:59 PM  
oh PS: Submitter also doesn't get it.
unless the asinine tag and header is supposed to be some sort of sarcasm that is escaping me. my guess is he is upset the Reds took a beating on this last time around, and this is some weird sort of payback...

i dunno..

/Wanted Bush to win in 2004
//Got exactly what i was hoping for by the win :)
///Wishes they'd let him stay for 12 years..
 
we_hates
2007-05-08 4:40:06 PM  
Oh no, the data canary just died.

/knows he's childish
 
evilgreg
2007-05-08 4:42:17 PM  
we_hates

The data canary died of boredom. I know; I've been there. I write software and database apps for custom data mining across large/multi-source data repositories.

Once my own tongue tried to choke me, just to spare me another day of it.
 
carriegood
2007-05-08 4:44:04 PM  
i'm just happy to see a headline with "it's" and "its" used properly.
 
willywanka
2007-05-08 4:45:35 PM  
Here we go again. The "data mining" performed by US government agencies is not in any way, shape or form similar to behavioral, geo/DMA, daypart, or other anonymized targeting methods, nor is collecting registration data for opt-in (or even opt-out) marketing. Shiat, even the personal data collection stuff doubleclick got nailed for a few years back doesn't hold a candle to the stuff big brother was gathering about you.

And PS - tons of sites collect data in various degrees and types.

"OH NOES, TF is running google analytics!!!! Drew is watching me!!!!"

...retards.
 
phlegmmo [TotalFark]
2007-05-08 4:45:55 PM  
carriegood 2007-05-08 04:44:04 PM
i'm just happy to see a headline with "it's" and "its" used properly.

Came in here to say the same thing.
 
Thray
2007-05-08 4:47:48 PM  
There's data deposits in them thar hills...
 
Manfred Richthofen
2007-05-08 4:49:12 PM  
When you sign up with NYT, you agree that they can use your information.

Vastly different from the government doing it to you without your consent, knowledge or judicial oversight.

If you don't understand the difference by now, then any attempt to help you will be futile, I suspect.
 
we_hates
2007-05-08 4:53:44 PM  
evilgreg: Once my own tongue tried to choke me, just to spare me another day of it.

I feel for you. I used to have a really boring job and I found the boredom to be as stressful as almost any high-stress job. My roommate couldn't understand why I was so prone to coming home and drinking myself into sweet oblivion.
 
moulderx1 [OhFark]
2007-05-08 4:59:00 PM  
Every third word I write tits.

/you'd be surprised how many emails I get
//yes, I know there is no tits in that post
///I meant every third post
 
A$$man
2007-05-08 4:59:21 PM  
Yeah Capitalism!!!
 
DinghusKhan
2007-05-08 5:01:27 PM  
Golf clap for subby for proper punctuation in a very apostrophically-challenging headline.
 
javery
2007-05-08 5:06:15 PM  
The problem is the amount of and especially means of gathering information with which to do data mining. So what if the NYT perhaps can piece together a few pieces of data about me relevent to them using some data that is fairly public (name, address, age, etc). What I tell them is what information they have.

The difference is that the government does not stop at relatively public information, but has recently been getting increasingly into private information (my address is public, the call between me and my grandma isn't) without telling the public.

It's fine to guess that given that I'm a young guy, I may tend to prefer sports sections of newspapers, it's much less okay to potentially use the frequency and perhaps contents of my calls to my grandma to try to determine how loyal an American I am.
 
gasconading_sesquipedalian
2007-05-08 5:12:51 PM  
why is the submitter a communist?
 
Galwran
2007-05-08 5:17:01 PM  
Not asine. Datamining does work for the purposes of NYT but will never work for purposes of antiterror
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/03/data_mining_for.html
 
rawkus
2007-05-08 5:18:05 PM  
yeah, they're completely alike except the New York Times doesn't employ a bunch of black-clad, jack-booted gun-toting thugs ready to break your door down and shoot you, warrant be damned, because some douche with an american flag pin on his suit deemed you a threat to 'national security'

/troll post?
//or the most brilliantest post evar?
///you decide
 
clifton
2007-05-08 5:25:07 PM  
Why does the right hate the free market?
 
nemoxnine
2007-05-08 5:26:50 PM  
I work for internet advertising, so I'm getting a kick out of these replies...

It's called Behavioral Targeting and most larger sites worth buying do it (to a greater or lesser extent).

This is effectively a Ric Romero article.
 
willywanka
2007-05-08 5:32:49 PM  
rawkus: except the New York Times doesn't employ a bunch of black-clad, jack-booted gun-toting thugs ready to break your door down and shoot you

oh, i don't know...I've hung out with some of those guys at tacoda...
 
willywanka
2007-05-08 5:36:29 PM  
nemoxnine: It's called Behavioral Targeting and most larger sites worth buying do it (to a greater or lesser extent).

that's why the Cato Institute rant was so funny. These are the same people that think cookies are dropped to steal your credit card number.
 
RockIsDead
2007-05-08 5:36:51 PM  
BAN DATA MINES NOW!

/Where's Di when we need her?
 
unto_others
2007-05-08 5:39:27 PM  
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that I'm pretty sure the journalists that write stories for the NYT are the people who make business decisions for the NYT. According to TFA, the NYT is compiling information on how you use their website. Oh noes!
 
invisibelle
2007-05-08 5:44:23 PM  
Wow, so running website analytics is evil data mining now? Sweet, I guess I'm a criminal too for putting a hit counter on my website.
 
jim45804
2007-05-08 5:47:24 PM  
[image from mind.ilstu.edu too old to be available]
MINE!
 
SacriliciousBeerSwiller
2007-05-08 5:56:37 PM  
Apples.

Oranges.

Context, subby.
 
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