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(Telegraph)   British MPs about to accidentally outlaw motorcycle racing and motoring museums   (telegraph.co.uk) divider line
    More: Dumbass  
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9000 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 19 Mar 2007 at 3:29 PM (15 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2007-03-19 12:06:26 PM  
I don't know about all of that, but the phrase "pig ignorant" is definitely going into my vocabulary.

/LOL
 
2007-03-19 12:32:49 PM  
Hehe, what a fark up. They basically wanted to stop assholes tearing about on illegal motorbikes which is a good idea, but don't seem to have thought their cunning plan through properly.

[image from bdsoab.net too old to be available]
 
2007-03-19 12:49:01 PM  
The premise of the article is simply wrong.

This is bad, pointless, bureaucratic, law (which, being a Private Member's Bill, will probably never reach the statute books) but it doesn't require that the vehicle comply with the RTA, which is what would result in both a requirement to make the vehicle road legal and to carry a plate, in fact it requires that there be:

"no duty to take out a vehicle licence under section 1 of this [the Vehicle Excise and Registration] Act [1994] by reason of their being exclusively used and kept off public roads."

It also requires only that the vehicle be uniquely identifiable, rather than carry a plate. Section 5 of the bill states:

"The Secretary of State shall ensure that the registration of an off-road bike matches the manufacturer's exclusive identification markings present on the bike."

This may be very difficult to achieve in some cases, of course.
 
2007-03-19 12:52:03 PM  
malcy: They basically wanted to stop assholes tearing about on illegal motorbikes which is a good idea

Well, forgive me if I don't do a cartwheel of joy, your [their] record in this department is hardly 100%.
 
2007-03-19 1:09:30 PM  
FarkinNortherner, is there a URL where a Septic such as myself could view this proposed law?
 
2007-03-19 1:18:00 PM  
DrRatchet: FarkinNortherner, is there a URL where a Septic such as myself could view this proposed law?

Yes, sorry, I ought to have included the link(p).
 
2007-03-19 1:23:18 PM  
From the bill; Be it enacted by the Queen's most Excellent Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the authority of the same, as follows:-

Spiritual and temporal lords ? Are we allowing time travelling ghosts to vote on motions in the house of lords now ?
 
2007-03-19 1:47:08 PM  
From teh bill:

The Secretary of State shall establish, within 12 months of the passing of this Act, and maintain a register of off-road bikes and their keepers, to be administered by the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency.

From the FA:

the DVLA in Swansea insists that a registration mark can only be issued to an RTA-compliant vehicle.

I see what the Telegraph did there.

The proposed law does not appear to require a "registration mark", rather it requires that there be a "a register of off-road bikes and their keepers" maintained by the Secretary of State. It implies that this registry is separate from the registry of road-going vehicles. Now, I am wholly ignorant of the structure of the English government, but assuming for the moment that the SoS was able to deligate this registry to the DVLA, and the DVLA refused to make an entry to this registry based on the RTA-compliance of the bike, than the DVLA would appear to be failing the SoS on point 21a-2, and by extension, the SoS would be the one not in compliance with the law.

OTOH, here in the US bureaucratic measures like this have been taken as a way to outmaneuver those pesky "laws" and that darn "constitution". This has been in the form: "You have the legal right to do or own 'X', but you have to pay a tax, and we won't accept the tax payment, so you can't do/own it", for example. Is this sort of thing common in the UK?
 
2007-03-19 1:58:31 PM  
And furthermore, I see nothing requiring a license plate. The Telegraph is Pig Ignorant. But it's Mr Stringer's fault... You see, the conversation with The Tele could have gone like this:

Tele: "Blah Blah Blah Confiscation Blah DVLA Blah"

Mr Stringer: "No, a seperate registry, no RTA-compliance, no license plate."

Tele: "Oh, I see. Well, I'll just scrap this polemic and run a picture of a bunny with a pancake on it's head in it's place."

/wholly ignorant about the UK press, too.
 
2007-03-19 3:35:13 PM  
OTOH, here in the US bureaucratic measures like this have been taken as a way to outmaneuver those pesky "laws" and that darn "constitution". This has been in the form: "You have the legal right to do or own 'X', but you have to pay a tax, and we won't accept the tax payment, so you can't do/own it", for example. Is this sort of thing common in the UK?

I haven't heard of such a law in the states. Do you have an example?
 
2007-03-19 3:38:38 PM  
What is a "feckless" youth? I need to know.
 
2007-03-19 3:38:45 PM  
You can have my $100,000 racing bike when you haul it over my twitching, tasered body.

\don't really have a $100,000 racing bike
\\Yes, I know the amount wasn't in dollars, too lazy to copy and paste the symbol
 
2007-03-19 3:39:59 PM  
Just do what's been done decades ago in California...require off-road registration for true ORVs (dirt bikes, quads, sandrails, etc.). It's just a little sticker that costs about $15 a year.
 
2007-03-19 3:40:59 PM  
Avanti - What is a "feckless" youth? I need to know.

A youth that has never been lei'd?

\be here all week
 
2007-03-19 3:41:27 PM  
Hey all you feckless youths irritating my constituents, -- get off my lawn.
 
2007-03-19 3:41:30 PM  
I think this is probably in answer to the high percentage of trackday bike and racebikes that are bought from thieves.
 
2007-03-19 3:41:53 PM  
A feckless youth is one who doesn't have any feckles on his frace.
 
2007-03-19 3:42:22 PM  
SharkUW

it's how drugs were first outlawed.
 
2007-03-19 3:42:48 PM  
Are all of these stories about the "assinations" of the British really required? Yes, yes...we know they have morphed into a bunch of legalistic asshats whose penchant for PC and Socialism will be their ultimate undoing.
/at least they have farking cameras everywhere to videotape said destruction
//yes, yes, I meant "assination"
///"Assination: The machinations of a$$holes.
 
2007-03-19 3:47:40 PM  
SharkUW: I haven't heard of such a law in the states. Do you have an example?

Marijuana Tax Act of 1937
 
2007-03-19 3:50:25 PM  
That's a fine idea with me.

I could never ride one of those right-handed British bikes anyway

/got nothing
 
2007-03-19 3:53:28 PM  
SharkUW

it's how drugs were first outlawed.


And new automatic weapons are now.


So they really want museums and scrap yard owners to register their motorcycle collections?
 
2007-03-19 3:53:30 PM  
lotustuned:

The "Lords Spiritual and Temporal" refers to the members of the House of Lords, the Upper (but less powerful) chamber of Parliament. The Lords Spiritual are the Bishops and Arch-Bishops of the Church of England, who are given seats in the House of Lords, while the Lords Temporal (temporal meaning "earthly") are the various Barons, Earls, life peers, etc., who have seats in the House of Lords. That whole phrase is archaic for the most part, as it is really the "Commons" that decides everything now, but the Brits love their tradition.
 
2007-03-19 3:57:05 PM  
Wouldn't it just be simpler to make it a criminal offense to ride a bike bellow "x-amount" size on a road without a special permit?
 
2007-03-19 3:57:05 PM  
spleef420: Just do what's been done decades ago in California...require off-road registration for true ORVs (dirt bikes, quads, sandrails, etc.). It's just a little sticker that costs about $15 a year.

If I have a bike that I ride only on my land, or my neighbors land...what business is it of the State?

Why do I need to pay $15/year to ride my property on my land?
 
2007-03-19 3:57:10 PM  
[image from yes-minister.com too old to be available]
Highly amused.
 
2007-03-19 3:58:18 PM  
GoodOmens: Wouldn't it just be simpler to make it a criminal offense to ride a bike bellow "x-amount" size on a road without a special permit?

It already is. People still do it.

FTA:
"The bikes were already being ridden illegally, and simply adding a rear number plate wasn't going to help."
 
2007-03-19 3:59:07 PM  
Ah, I had forgotten about those. Nowadays I guess they're more direct with writing unconstitutional laws.
 
2007-03-19 4:02:42 PM  
Wolfmanjames

+1. I approve.
 
2007-03-19 4:07:54 PM  
YouPeopleAreCrazy: Why do I need to pay $15/year to ride my property on my land?

The tag is for access to public off road parks like Glamis and Pismo Beach. As long as your ORV never touches public land it's all good. Get caught in a public ORV park without the sticker and say goodbye to your ORV.
 
2007-03-19 4:10:23 PM  
The tags in Cali are also used as a security measure...your serial number is on file with the CDMV so if your bike gets swiped there's a better chance of recovery.
 
2007-03-19 4:11:25 PM  
funkonomics: I could never ride one of those right-handed British bikes anyway

I laughed at this way too much. Reminded me that some police motorcycles used to (haven't checked lately) have the throttle on the left so the bike can be ridden through the gears one handed.
 
2007-03-19 4:15:11 PM  
When motorcycles are outlawed, only outlaws will have motorcycles.
 
2007-03-19 4:16:24 PM  
ScreamingInDigital: Reminded me that some police motorcycles used to (haven't checked lately) have the throttle on the left so the bike can be ridden through the gears one handed.

Bultaco (old Spanish motorcycle company) designed their bikes this way. The kicker was on the left as well as the stand. It took a bit of thought to get used to after years on Jap bikes.
 
2007-03-19 4:20:31 PM  
spleef420: The tag is for access to public off road parks like Glamis and Pismo Beach. As long as your ORV never touches public land it's all good.

OK. So its more a pass to use the area instead of the vehicle. That's not too bad then.
 
2007-03-19 4:28:27 PM  
ExcaliburPrime111; I'm British dude, but there's alot of screwing around with the house of lords these days by the Labour party, i figured someone had made a mistake along the way and allowed time travelling ghosts to enter, plus that sounds way cooler than bishops and life peers.
 
2007-03-19 4:31:21 PM  
I'll ride my 1952 Vincent Black Lightning, and if they can catch me they can have it.

/Red Molly indeed.
 
2007-03-19 4:35:23 PM  
funkonomics
That's a fine idea with me.
I could never ride one of those right-handed British bikes anyway


a friend of mine had a British Sidecar rig which was naturally on the left side of the bike. In America, it was absolutely terrifying for the passenger when he would swing out to take a look to see if he could pass a car placing the sidecar into traffice the passenger could clearly see.
 
2007-03-19 4:42:00 PM  
YouPeopleAreCrazy: So its more a pass to use the area instead of the vehicle.

It's partially the vehicle...the sticker shows that the ORV complies with California fire prevention codes. Most off-roaders in Cali have the sticker because most people in Cali don't have 40 acres to run around so they hit Glamis or Pismo.
 
2007-03-19 4:47:06 PM  
"Feckless Youth Gone Bad" soon to be on dozens of your late night cable TV "paid program" channels.
 
2007-03-19 4:50:29 PM  
Since the author of the article is quite up in arms regarding this "overly simplistic" solution I suppose it would be worse to offer an even more simplistic solution, but I'll do so anyhow...

Enforcement, anyone?
 
2007-03-19 4:55:47 PM  
BXRWXR: the phrase "pig ignorant" is definitely going into my vocabulary.

I'm still waiting for the right moment to whip out "beat the british" myself.
/No life.
//sigh...
 
2007-03-19 4:59:40 PM  
A Shambling Mound: Enforcement, anyone?

O.M.G. You are surely the Chose One.
 
2007-03-19 5:23:20 PM  
A Shambling Mound: Enforcement, anyone?


Too simple. Politicians respond to any problem by passing new laws even if the new laws will be equally unenforced and will only create more problems for law abiding citizens.
 
2007-03-19 5:26:01 PM  
to combat the anti-social use of mini-motos


I learned to work on engines by taking apart an old mini-bike and rebuilding it.

My dad never let me ride it because of my stellar safety record on pedal bikes.I was an accident waiting to happen.
 
2007-03-19 5:44:13 PM  
Anyone want to bet that someone from the Hose of Lords will get upset about this and bring some sanity to the table? While the House or Lords seems like a crazy bunch of people who should have no rights in controlling the government, their virtual lack of any real power other than a temporary veto may once again be demonstrated as a very positive thing. I suspect more governments should have a final check on laws run by a bunch of randomly selected old nutters.
 
2007-03-19 5:45:46 PM  
Typical. Virginia did the same thing a few years ago. My mom gets a letter in the mail saying that all motorcycles need to have plates, working lights, blinkers, etc. etc. Not just to be operated on the road, but ALL of them, even those specifically for off-road use. Possession would subject you to impounding and a $1000 fine.

There was an AMA race at VIR that year. I wonder if the Hayden brothers were able to go out without getting their bikes impounded?
 
2007-03-19 5:50:45 PM  
spleef420: Just do what's been done decades ago in California...require off-road registration for true ORVs (dirt bikes, quads, sandrails, etc.). It's just a little sticker that costs about $15 a year.

How bout they just do nothing and leave the people the fark alone?

Government should not be involved in every single little aspect of people's lives.
 
2007-03-19 6:18:55 PM  
annoyed_grunt: How bout they just do nothing and leave the people the fark alone?

how about you read the rest of my posts to fully understand why California does this. It's for fire prevention and theft protection as well as funding for the ORV parks. It's really no different than requiring registration for a car or truck.
 
2007-03-19 6:22:53 PM  
rcain: we at least pretend to have a few scraps of common sense when it comes to law making.

we have our PATRIOT ACT and DMCA


These two statements utterly negate one another. Add in the US's astonishing level of data gathering on its citizens and on aliens at border crossings, unmatched anywhere in the Western world, and not so laughable scary Police State starts to look like a problem we're both contending with too.

It's a curious outbreak of national ostrich like behaviour, this concentration on 'x is doing y, therefore we're ok'. Extend it to its logical conclusion and you can start using the Third World as a comparator. Oh, wait, when it comes to pollution levels and the treatment of prisoners you're already doing so.

some law being considered in Britain that emasculates it's citizens in a completely laughable manner such as this

This bill - which will never become law in this form - simply doesn't do what the headline suggests. What it would do, if implemented in a well thought out manner (that's what committee stages, which it's yet to reach, are for), is increase the ability of the police to deal with off road bikes being used on the road and in public spaces - while hardly a catastrophic issue, that is widely acknowledged as a blight on some areas.
 
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