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(Wall Street Journal)   Barack Obama had a bad habit of voting "present" on controversial bills during his tenure in the Illinois Legislature   (opinionjournal.com) divider line
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1686 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Feb 2007 at 5:16 AM (16 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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orrinbloquy
2007-02-14 2:59:51 AM  
As opposed to signing statements or vetoing stem cell research?
 
rga184
2007-02-14 3:01:56 AM  
You know, for the first time in EVAR, I see some criticism of Obama that may very well be valid.

/a step up from implying he went to muslim school
//or making a remark about his turrist-sounding name
 
amo
2007-02-14 3:06:31 AM  
Turrists!?! Where? Duck and cover! Duck and cover!
 
Obdicut
2007-02-14 3:18:26 AM  
The thing is, without knowing all the shiat-ass amendments and riders attached to each of these bills, we know nothing about them. The bill may be for the preservation of lustrous coats on fluffy bunnies, but the amendment may be all about ass-raping said bunnies.

/does not ass-rape bunnies.
//much.
 
rga184
2007-02-14 3:21:57 AM  
Turrists!?! Where? Duck and cover! Duck and cover!

Isn't that for nuclear blasts?

Wait, what's "stop, drop, and roll" for? Cuz I keep confusing it with "stand underneath door frame," "check the door for heat," "set it, and forget it" and "in, out, repeat if necessary."
 
MaxxLarge
2007-02-14 3:23:16 AM  
Some say that his record is marred,
But while you are playing that card,
Consider with care:
At least he was THERE.
Not Bush and his time in the Guard.
 
rga184
2007-02-14 3:23:18 AM  
Obdicut

The thing is, without knowing all the shiat-ass amendments and riders attached to each of these bills, we know nothing about them. The bill may be for the preservation of lustrous coats on fluffy bunnies, but the amendment may be all about ass-raping said bunnies.

Nicely put. I hadn't thought of that, though I did know that was common.

/OK, time for me to shut up. I have 50% of the comments in this thread
 
dj4aces
2007-02-14 3:47:55 AM  
Obdicut: without knowing all the shiat-ass amendments and riders attached to each of these bills, we know nothing about them.

And this seems to be what the author fails to understand.

This is also why you should take everything written in the "opinion journal" with a grain of salt.

/Nevermind a grain, give me the whole farking bag.
 
coyote1284
2007-02-14 4:11:54 AM  
I came to say what Obdicut said, but will leave with:

I for one welcome our new akwardly named overlord!

If it comes down to Rudy vs. Barack, I'd be torn, but probably go with Rudy and hope he brings reason back to the right. Failing either one, I'll vote for the worst possible candidate cos that's what we'll deserve if it comes down to idiot vs. moran, again, for the 4th time.
 
unemployed_philosopher
2007-02-14 4:18:42 AM  
coyote1284: I'd be torn, but probably go with Rudy and hope he brings reason back to the right.

Do you have any idea what that nutjob did to NYC during his term as mayor? A few golden moments after 9/11 do not erase his record of ... well, feudalism is the best way to describe his term.
 
log_jammin
2007-02-14 4:39:56 AM  
Some of these bills may have been "bad." They may have included poison pills or been poorly written, making it impossible for Obama to support them. They may have even been unconstitutional. When I asked the Obama campaign about those votes, they explained that in some cases, the Senator was uncomfortable with only certain parts of the bill, while in other cases, the bills were attempts by Republicans simply to score points.

But even if that were the case, it doesn't explain his votes.


Huh?
 
coyote1284
2007-02-14 4:50:24 AM  
Unfortunately, philosopher, I do not. Could you direct me to a credible source or two on that matter?
 
TheAfterbirthTycoon
2007-02-14 5:31:56 AM  
Obdicut: The bill may be for the preservation of lustrous coats on fluffy bunnies, but the amendment may be all about ass-raping said bunnies.

I don't really understand your argument. In your example the thing to do would clearly be to vote 'No' on the bill instead of 'present.'

Furthermore, between these (non) votes and Barack's preoccupation with silly things like people talking about his ears, I can't help but see his quote from TFA as more than a bit personally revealing.

"What's stopped us is the failure of leadership, the smallness of our politics--the ease with which we're distracted by the petty and trivial, our chronic avoidance of tough decisions"
 
Glasgowsfinest
2007-02-14 5:33:39 AM  
You Americans and your crazy democracy.

What you need is an upper house that unelected with the members chosen by the ruling party after giving them money. Thats REAL democracy.

/yay the House of Lords

//oh wait..
 
MortuusLupus
2007-02-14 5:39:56 AM  
TheAfterbirthTycoon: I don't really understand your argument.

If the bill was designed to create a wildlife preserve in an area of the state, but riders were attached that allowed pets to be hunted as game and set aside $150 million for a big colorful sign next to a bridge, what should he do?

If he votes yes, then his opponents can say he supports killing Fido and will spend all your money on worthless crap. If he votes no, he can be labeled as an anti-environmentalist. For shiat like that, which happens an awful lot, what's he supposed to do? By voting "present" he is giving it a no vote to stop all that crap without exposing himself to blatant attempts to trap him.

It's really not that hard.
 
TheAfterbirthTycoon
2007-02-14 5:42:54 AM  
MortuusLupus: If the bill was designed to create a wildlife preserve in an area of the state, but riders were attached that allowed pets to be hunted as game and set aside $150 million for a big colorful sign next to a bridge, what should he do?

I respectfully disagree with you. What he should do in your hypothetical situation is have the balls to vote No on it instead of worrying about how his vote will be spun in the media.

It's really not that hard.
 
TheAfterbirthTycoon
2007-02-14 5:44:09 AM  
MortuusLupus: By voting "present" he is giving it a no vote

By voting "No" he would be giving it a no vote
 
log_jammin
2007-02-14 5:45:40 AM  
TheAfterbirthTycoon: have the balls to vote No on it instead of worrying about how his vote will be spun in the media.

It's really not that hard.

Or he could have the balls to refuse to play the petty game that they all play.
 
me texan
2007-02-14 5:50:09 AM  
rga184
You know, for the first time in EVAR, I see some criticism of Obama that may very well be valid.

I second that - I can agree where he might not want to vote for legislation due to riders (or turn it down for the same reason). However I'd make damn sure I went on record after that why I did.

However, I do think that there is a quality to the abstentions he's voted here - they all look like they're bills designed to "out" people rather than to get something done that the majority of the populace wants done.

Personally I'm sick of politics for politic's sake. Normally we (Republicans) were supposed to be against this type of thing.. but now my party is as bad as any of them.

Its time to govern for the people, not govern for the government.
 
TheAfterbirthTycoon
2007-02-14 5:50:26 AM  
i see what you guys are saying but I would prefer an active resistance as opposed to a passive one. To take your point to the extreme, he may as well not even be in politics
 
TheAfterbirthTycoon
2007-02-14 5:52:32 AM  
All that said though I am open to an explanation from Obama and would not be surprised if his reason made perfect sense.

/feeling very fair tonight..
 
DuncanMhor
2007-02-14 6:11:40 AM  
I know it's been said before, but some of the examples given in TFA are of bills that are blatant 'record traps', and none are given with any degree of context. Chosing to abstain from these votes may have been very wise political moves. You can bet that if he had voted "No", that article would have been "Obama supports partial-birth abortion", "Obama wants a strip club right beside your nursery" and all the rest of the crap we're used to reading about politicians.

I'm not very sensitive to racial issues, since I'm from an area that was almost 100% white and the topic rarely came up, but is the reference to "Land of Lincoln" in TFA a dig at his race, or am I reading too much into things?
 
safeasmilk
2007-02-14 6:15:19 AM  
I think the concept of voting present makes a lot of sense, for instance a bill in Senate that uses a minimum wage hike as the primary focus but then tacked on is a bill to allow for oil drilling in Alaska. At that point the entire bill becomes a no win situation that is focused more on making the politician look bad than it is doing any good for the citizens. Frankly, I wouldn't mind seeing more of that style voting assuming there was a logical explanation to it. I am sure that in Obamas case there is a sensible answer to the votes he made seeing as how the majority of the bills mentioned deal with controversial topics.
 
grinningdeamon
2007-02-14 6:28:57 AM  
DuncanMhor I'm not very sensitive to racial issues, since I'm from an area that was almost 100% white and the topic rarely came up, but is the reference to "Land of Lincoln" in TFA a dig at his race, or am I reading too much into things?

You are reading too much into things. "Land of Lincoln" is the Illinois state motto. Plus he made his announcement in front of the old state capital where Lincoln served for 8 years in the Illinois Legislature.
 
grinningdeamon
2007-02-14 6:36:47 AM  
Whoops, state slogan
 
m0llusk
2007-02-14 6:36:56 AM  
Barak Obama : WSJ :: Chuck Norris : The Watchtower
 
rga184
2007-02-14 6:37:58 AM  
TheAfterbirthTycoon

What he should do in your hypothetical situation is have the balls to vote No on it instead of worrying about how his vote will be spun in the media.

Ironic isn't it? Considering his vote is being spun by the media anyway. I think the smarter thing is to vote "present" if this rider thing is in fact the case here. Consider the political climate in the last elections: The GOP went so low as to pull out the "where da white woman at?" card in TN--what do you think they would have done with some of those votes if he hadn't voted "present"?

It's not about balls, it's about being smart enough to not fall into what Admiral Ackbar would very eloquently call a "trap".

I'd hate to b-b-but Bush this thread, but a similar criticism could be made of Bush's signing statements. He should have the guts to veto a bill, rather than sign it and then write in his own personal exceptions--making the bill essentially useless so far as a check on executive power is concerned.

/it cuts both ways
 
DuncanMhor
2007-02-14 6:43:20 AM  
grinningdeamon: "Land of Lincoln" is the Illinois state motto.

Didn't know that, thanks for putting me right.
 
Wren
2007-02-14 6:48:48 AM  
If Obama wins the primary I might stay home on election day. All the little details give me the impression that he is either way out of his league or an empty suit with some charisma.
 
trev29
2007-02-14 7:17:33 AM  
All of the Obama slamming is not going to work. First off he is likable, every time the right trots crap out about him they look mean. 2006 showed that people are sick of the smear game. If Obama fights back and so far he's shown that he will, he will embarass the right wing with a "have you no shame " moment.
 
clifton
2007-02-14 7:19:31 AM  
C'mon, righties, you need to ramp up your attacks. Perhaps muttering a scary word like "madrassa" a 1000 more times will work. Because nothing is more scary than education.
 
coyote1284
2007-02-14 7:22:15 AM  
I had no idea what a madrassa was until recently.
 
clifton
2007-02-14 7:24:52 AM  
coyote1284: I had no idea what a madrassa was until recently.

Except more innocent English terms translated to Arabic to scare the voting public. Heh.
 
clifton
2007-02-14 7:25:29 AM  
Except = Expect.
 
crunch-o-matic
2007-02-14 7:27:33 AM  
doing this crap to someone people like, just won't work

doing it to someone people just tolerate, is different.
 
Kiribub
2007-02-14 7:28:17 AM  
Here's his page at "On the Issues" (pops)

You can read "Barak Obama on Drugs" and spin it however you like. ;)
 
MortuusLupus
2007-02-14 7:33:36 AM  
rga184: It's not about balls, it's about being smart enough to not fall into what Admiral Ackbar would very eloquently call a "trap".

Exactly. In modern politics (read: the last 6 years), EVERY action is spun by the opposition and made to look bad. If riders were not permitted you wouldn't have this kind of crap. It'd take the political maneuvering out of politics, or at least knock it down to a reasonable level.

I'm still waiting for someone to slip in a tiny little rider that would do something crazy, like make it a federal crime to be a member of the Democratic party, or some similar nonsense. Maybe then congress would get the stones to make some proper changes.
 
stevedln15
2007-02-14 7:33:57 AM  
MaxxLarge

Consider with care:
At least he was THERE.

Argh...I came here to say that.

/registered independent (because I like to have options)
//prefers republicans versus dems the majority of the time
///sticking with Obama until he's proven worse than the alternatives
 
MortuusLupus
2007-02-14 7:37:47 AM  
TheAfterbirthTycoon: What he should do in your hypothetical situation is have the balls to vote No on it instead of worrying about how his vote will be spun in the media.

In a perfect world where everyone in the public knew what bills were being debated, yes, I wholeheartedly agree. But most people just don't pay enough attention, or assume that everything that comes out of a TV pundit's mouth is the truth. If people knew that he was voting against a bill full of riders, this sort of thing would be a non-issue. The media counts on public ignorance, though, which is why this kind of tactic works, and why sometimes just saying "here" is all you can do.
 
they
2007-02-14 7:51:15 AM  
TheAfterbirthTycoon: What he should do in your hypothetical situation is have the balls to vote No on it instead of worrying about how his vote will be spun in the media.

Very true - a man with future intentions of the presidency should to everything in his power to lose.

Presidential elections, sad as it is, are won and lost by the media spin. People don't look at voting records closely, they only pay attention to 15-second snippets and talking points. Having the balls to vote your heart with conviction each and every time may be admirable, but it labels you as an unelectable kook - just look at Kucinich.
 
PC LOAD LETTER [TotalFark]
2007-02-14 7:52:12 AM  
As long as he didn't go on about Schaivo needing to live, it's ok by me.
 
Kiribub
2007-02-14 7:52:26 AM  
they: People don't look at voting records closely, they only pay attention to 15-second snippets and talking points.

Too true. Swiftboat et al.
 
Cracker_monkey_in_a_cage
2007-02-14 7:55:40 AM  
Yah! Another day another thread about our lord and savior barack obama.

/Really getting sick of this guy through no fault of his own.
 
Kiribub
2007-02-14 8:01:38 AM  
Cracker_monkey_in_a_cage: Another day another thread about our lord and savior barack obama.

Yep, and welcome to it. Thanks for coming in of your own volition. No donations necessary.
 
IXI Jim IXI
2007-02-14 8:25:19 AM  
Kiribub: You can read "Barak Obama on Drugs" and spin it however you like. ;)

"Let's find out why the stoners get stoned?"

Sounds a little more reasonable than "drugs bad! druggies bad!"
 
padraig
2007-02-14 8:31:24 AM  
Kiribub
Too true. Swiftboat et al.

Just as a sidenote: swiftboat veteran must be proud to know that, in the public mind, the word "swiftboating" now means "The process of smearing a military veteran's service record for political purposes." (according to Urban Dictionnary)
 
captainktainer
2007-02-14 8:37:48 AM  
TheAfterbirthTycoon: I don't really understand your argument. In your example the thing to do would clearly be to vote 'No' on the bill instead of 'present.'

I respectfully disagree with you. What he should do in your hypothetical situation is have the balls to vote No on it instead of worrying about how his vote will be spun in the media.

The point of the "present" vote is to signify your mixed feelings about the bill. To say "You got some things right, but some things wrong. Try again." That's why the option is there.

safeasmilk: I am sure that in Obamas case there is a sensible answer to the votes he made seeing as how the majority of the bills mentioned deal with controversial topics.

That wouldn't surprise me. After he worked hard to make sure that the Patriot Act reauthorization was better, he voted for it and explained to his constituents why he thought it was absolute shiat... but that without a compromise it was going to be even worse. He tends to explain difficult votes.

Wren: All the little details give me the impression that he is either way out of his league or an empty suit with some charisma.

Read the Lugar-Obama Act. Trust me... you will quickly be disabused of that notion afterwards.

Cracker_monkey_in_a_cage: Yah! Another day another thread about our lord and savior barack obama.

But hey... at least we're talking about the issues, right?
 
IXI Jim IXI
2007-02-14 8:41:17 AM  
padraig: Just as a sidenote: swiftboat veteran must be proud to know that, in the public mind, the word "swiftboating" now means "The process of smearing a military veteran's service record for political purposes." (according to Urban Dictionnary)

"Swiftboat? Um...no...I actually served in a canoe"
 
Code_Archeologist
2007-02-14 8:43:13 AM  
Vote for Barack Obama
Seizure inducing Obama head demands it!
[image from i18.tinypic.com too old to be available]
 
coyote1284
2007-02-14 8:56:32 AM  
The point of the "present" vote is to signify your mixed feelings about the bill. To say "You got some things right, but some things wrong. Try again." That's why the option is there.

I wish we had that option. A "none of the above" or something to say "We don't like any of the guys you put up, try again."
 
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