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(Yahoo)   The biatching continues over Bush failing to mention Katrina in his SOTU address. In related news, Richard Nixon never mentioned the Spanish-American war even once the whole time he was in office   (news.yahoo.com) divider line
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333 clicks; posted to Politics » on 27 Jan 2007 at 11:55 PM (16 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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Doggiewoggie [TotalFark]
2007-01-27 6:12:21 PM  
You're such a farking troll, subby.
 
LyleDAL
2007-01-27 6:13:06 PM  
Weak subby. Were you even trying?
 
Skleenar
2007-01-27 6:14:20 PM  
But did he mention the Spanish Inquisition?

I wouldn't expect so.
 
Action Replay Nick
2007-01-27 6:18:54 PM  
Did Clinton talk about hurricane Andrew 15 months after it happened?

Submitter has a somewhat valid point, even if they are trolling.
 
ExJerseyGirl
2007-01-27 6:26:36 PM  
Hey subby! See me? I am over here waving to you!

It is a special wave.... one that is often reserved for new drivers.
 
Sensei Can You See [TotalFark]
2007-01-27 6:27:08 PM  
Skleenar: But did he mention the Spanish Inquisition?

NO ONE mentions the Spanish Inquisition!
 
tandkquinn
2007-01-27 7:05:29 PM  
I fervently hope that I one day can be so much a blind supporter of something or someone as subby obviously is. It must be wonderful to not have to think about anything other than defending my beloved.
 
RobertBruce
2007-01-27 7:29:37 PM  
over a year later? so what??
 
neeners
2007-01-27 9:05:56 PM  
Spanish-American War: 1898
Nixon Administration: 1969-1974

Your analogy is weaker than Coors Light.
 
Snarfangel
2007-01-27 9:17:06 PM  
I must have a different sense of humor than everyone else, because I thought the headline was funny.

/not submitter, since no one thinks my headlines are funny.
 
Abagadro
2007-01-27 9:37:03 PM  
I'm sure everything is fine there and it is all back to normal.
 
shadesofblack
2007-01-27 10:25:32 PM  
Honestly, submitter, since Katrina wasn't his fault, and the Iraq mess is, I'm not really seeing a problem here.

Yeah, yeah, I know, he DID handle Katrina extremely poorly. *GASP* You don't think maybe he wants people to FORGET about his f*ck-ups, do you?

Surely he has more integrity than that, right? RIGHT?

/*snerk*
 
totalsecurity
2007-01-27 10:45:59 PM  
So? You think any amount of biatching will change anything? If you do, then you are fooling yourself. Delusional, even.
 
Control_this
2007-01-27 10:48:10 PM  
He wants to be the "farked up war" president. That way we'll forget he was the "farked up Katrina" president. Or the "farked up 9/11" president.
 
gilgigamesh
2007-01-27 11:15:39 PM  
Action Replay Nick


Did Clinton talk about hurricane Andrew 15 months after it happened?

When Bush gave a speech from Jackson Square in the weeks after the storm and said America would do whatever it took to rebuild New Orleans, some people actually believed he meant it.

About 3/4 of the property destroyed by Katrina is just as damaged as it was the day after the storm.
 
HumbleGod
2007-01-27 11:51:12 PM  
shadesofblack: Yeah, yeah, I know, he DID handle Katrina extremely poorly. *GASP* You don't think maybe he wants people to FORGET about his f*ck-ups, do you?

Not subby, but several things related to Katrina still deserve federal attention.
*First, a revamping of FEMA's response plans, perhaps even removing it from DHS to allow for more effectiveness. As poorly as Brown handled things, they were needlessly complicated further by involving Chertoff in the process when he was clearly disinclined to be of use communicating the situation to the president.
*Second, the levee situation in New Orleans. Nowhere near enough money has been budgeted to the Corps of Engineers to allow for a modern system to protect the city the way it deserves. Considering NOLA and southern Louisiana's importance to the national economy, this should be a much higher priority, yet it remains on the backburner while billions go towards an Iraq strategy that continues to fail.
*Third, the matter of patronage in the federal government. Why was someone like Brown even in that position? How many other important federal positions are being filled in a similar manner by ill-equipped but politically-connected party donors?

Granted, the issue of who caused what problems in the Katrina disaster is tiring. We don't need to focus on blame, but we do need to focus on how to prevent similar farkups.
 
Wombatzu
2007-01-28 12:06:33 AM  
Richard Nixon doesn't care about Spanish people...
 
Tenebreux [TotalFark]
2007-01-28 12:08:09 AM  
Quite right, Subby. The things that Richard Nixon didn't mention were indeed the things that made him an impeachable asshat. Good point.
 
Churchill2004
2007-01-28 12:10:52 AM  
Yeah, the Feds screwed up with Katrina. The number one screw-up was setting up the system so that people expected anything substantial out of the Federal government to begin with.
 
LocalCynic
2007-01-28 12:14:07 AM  
Churchill2004: The number one screw-up was setting up the system so that people expected anything substantial out of the Federal government to begin with.

You're talking about Iraq, right?
 
Dil Doe
2007-01-28 12:15:33 AM  
Seriously guys, if this is the best smack that America's right fringe can come up with, just throw in the towel. You're spent.
 
Churchill2004
2007-01-28 12:15:57 AM  
LocalCynic: You're talking about Iraq, right?


I'm afraid I don't understand what you're saying. My snark translator needs new batteries I guess.
 
LocalCynic
2007-01-28 12:24:21 AM  
Churchill2004: I'm afraid I don't understand what you're saying. My snark translator needs new batteries I guess.

Big government is the problem, not the solution. So why are we installing a big gun grabbing yet sucktastic government in Iraq? Why are we nation building when "the decider" decided in 2000 that he was against nation building before he was for it?
 
Churchill2004
2007-01-28 12:31:00 AM  
LocalCynic: So why are we installing a big gun grabbing yet sucktastic government in Iraq? Why are we nation building when "the decider" decided in 2000 that he was against nation building before he was for it?


I dunno know. Ask a Bush supporter, if you can still find one.

I'm opposed to both nation-building in general and the US involvement in Iraq in particular.
 
spucky
2007-01-28 12:33:44 AM  
shadesofblack: since Katrina wasn't his fault

Quit with the "Bush didn't make the hurricane" strawman.

Bush is directly responsible for the response to Katrina. He put politics above competence in his appointments and left someone who was too incompetent to be on a horse breeding committee in charge of the agency that would respond to terrorist attacks even after 9/11.
 
Churchill2004
2007-01-28 12:38:57 AM  
spucky: Bush is directly responsible for the federal response to Katrina.

Important distinction.
 
madcap72
2007-01-28 12:39:18 AM  
As far as the levee's Thats a STATE issue thats been boggled since the 30's and 40's. They should have been rebuilt better YEARS ago. Same with the evacuation, thats a STATE issue, FEMA
was supposed to help coordinate different agencies. Instead, they had to help directly. Infact, it was actualy against the Law for FEMA to give people money (i.e. fema cards). The whole thing started F'd up at the state level. I'm not saying it didnt continue up to the Fed level. But if your going to blame one person, you might as well blame them all and in order.
 
Lackofname
2007-01-28 12:42:55 AM  
Presidents have this habit of not mentioning things that happened almost a century before them in State of the Union addresses, Subby.
 
FlashLV
2007-01-28 12:44:23 AM  
Action Replay Nick


Did Clinton talk about hurricane Andrew 15 months after it happened?

Submitter has a somewhat valid point, even if they are trolling.

QFE!!
 
Murkanen
2007-01-28 12:48:10 AM  
madcap72

The Army corp of engineers are under direct control of Louisiana? That's a new one.
 
Churchill2004
2007-01-28 12:51:55 AM  
CaptainFatass: You are pointing out a distinction that makes no difference.

It does make a difference, because if the local/state response hadn't sucked just as bad or worse, nobody would have noticed that the feds fell down on the job.

That, and the primary responsiblity for disaster relief falls to the state, and therefore so does the blame, just like with so many other things that are slipping away into federal territory as true constitutional federalism is gradually being destroyed in the United States.
 
Churchill2004
2007-01-28 12:53:10 AM  
Murkanen: That's a new one.


To be fair, they're not under the control of the Army, either. I think what he's saying is that is should be under state control, something that I agree with.
 
Vet_Curm
2007-01-28 12:55:47 AM  
[image from img.photobucket.com too old to be available]



"How could President Bush say that the state of our union is "good" when New Orleans has not yet recovered? If we can attempt to rebuild Baghdad but not New Orleans, what does that say about this country? And if Bush can spend so much of his address talking about Iraq, while Katrina recovery doesn't merit a mention, what does this say about his priorities?"
 
IlGreven
2007-01-28 12:57:20 AM  
And while they're biatching over his SOTU, they're failing at all to mention Jim Webb's rebuttal.

/Srsly, read that rebuttal.
 
spucky
2007-01-28 12:57:23 AM  
Churchill2004: spucky: Bush is directly responsible for the federal response to Katrina.

Important distinction.

Was it not FEMAs stated policy to be the first responder and coordinate local agencies? Too tired to Google. Maybe later.
 
spucky
2007-01-28 1:00:27 AM  
FlashLV: QFE!!

Did Clinton lose a city due to incompetence?
 
madcap72
2007-01-28 1:02:03 AM  
The Corps of engineer's Built and Mantain the Levee's, the FUNDING is supposed to come from the State. And the Control is under Local Parishes.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/katrina/20060219-0958-louisianalevee s.html/


There's a decent article explaining why there was no money in the first place to update, and thats just RECENT wasted money, it's been like that for DECADES.
 
TMark765
2007-01-28 1:05:01 AM  
The article raises a valid point, i.e.: What does the Federal response to the rebuilding of NOLA say about the priorities of this administration?

It says: 'We don't care about the poor people of NOLA. We only care about trying to make ourselves look good as we loot the treasury for ourselves, our cronies and our billionaire donor friends. Don't ask why, just accept it and fark off."

/Impeach the lot
//Start over
 
FlashLV
2007-01-28 1:09:18 AM  
spucky

Did Clinton lose a city due to incompetence?

I didn't think Atlantis was real, what city was lost?

The incompetence was on the local level.
 
spucky
2007-01-28 1:19:07 AM  
FlashLV

Following September 11th, 2001, President Bush created the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to better coordinate among the different federal agencies that deal with law enforcement, disaster preparedness and recovery, border protection and civil defense. FEMA was absorbed into DHS as of 2003. As a result, FEMA became part of the Emergency Preparedness and Response Directorate of DHS, and employs more than 2,600 full time employees. In September 2003, Michael D. Brown, FEMA's director and DHS Undersecretary, warned that the shift would make a mockery of FEMA's new motto, "A Nation Prepared," and would "fundamentally sever FEMA from its core functions," "shatter agency morale" and "break longstanding, effective and tested relationships with states and first responder stakeholders." The inevitable result of the reorganization of 2003, warned Brown, would be "an ineffective and uncoordinated response" to a terrorist attack or a natural disaster. [Washington Post Dec 23, 2005]

Stop being obtuse.
 
MixDJ
2007-01-28 1:20:55 AM  
Subby is a world class a'hole.
 
DisneyOnIce
2007-01-28 1:21:48 AM  
spucky: Stop being obtuse.

That's like telling water not to be wet.
 
Churchill2004
2007-01-28 1:24:04 AM  
spucky: Was it not FEMAs stated policy to be the first responder and coordinate local agencies?

I don't know, maybe. If so, it shouldn't have been.

I'm pretty sure that they were more intended to help coordinate the influx of aid, and not the response itself, but I could be wrong.

CaptainFatass: But the feds did fall down on the job

Yes. I don't think they should have had the job to begin with, but yes, they did screw it up.

Why does it matter to you how that came to the public's attention?

Because it encourages people to look to the feds instead of their state government, and that's a bad thing.

Uh, what do you think the "F" in "FEMA" stands for?

farked-up

f they don't do their jobs, we shouldn't be paying their salaries.

We shouldn't be paying their salaries anyway. I would drastically cut back FEMA to nothing more than a means to channel federal funds to disaster relief.

Especially a horse-trading dipshiat like "Heckuvajob" Brownie.

I agree his appointment was a travesty.

You seem to have a pathological need to deny the fact that the Bush Administration farked up.

You have a patholigical need to build up a strawman, because I said no such thing, nor do I believe such a thing.

The screwing-up happened at both state, local, and federal levels, but seeing as the primary responsibility for dealing with the problem laid with the state and local, they also should get the majority of the blame.

I'm not defending Bush, I just don't understand those who want to attack him over this but give the LA state government and Mayor Nagin a free pass.
 
madcap72
2007-01-28 1:24:52 AM  
Mayor Ray Naygen Was sitting in Baton Rouge, NOT calling for the Hundreds of school buses to take those same black people to safety.
 
Chelsea Clinton Is Carrot Top's Lost Twin
2007-01-28 1:26:28 AM  
yer doin' a heck of a job, subby!
 
Churchill2004
2007-01-28 1:27:54 AM  
madcap72: Naygen


Nagin.
 
Chelsea Clinton Is Carrot Top's Lost Twin
2007-01-28 1:30:38 AM  
madcap72: Mayor Ray Naygen Was sitting in Baton Rouge, NOT calling for the Hundreds of school buses to take those same black people to safety.

gwb was sitting in a meeting where an engineer was briefing him on the likelihood of the breeches being topped. that failure at life didn't open his mouth once with any questions or comments. he was probably too busy thinking about his next pony ride.
 
madcap72
2007-01-28 1:32:51 AM  
http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0905/0905evac.htm

Read this before clogging the intertubes.
 
Chelsea Clinton Is Carrot Top's Lost Twin
2007-01-28 1:34:01 AM  
madcap72: Mayor Ray Naygen Was sitting in Baton Rouge, NOT calling for the Hundreds of school buses to take those same black people to safety.

on a side note, it's interesting how when people try to defend bush, they always compare him to other failures. interesting.
 
Churchill2004
2007-01-28 1:46:40 AM  
CaptainFatass: while admiting that you don't know if that's the case.

FEMA can state whatever the hell the want. That doesn't change the fact that the responsibility is with the state. (The local government is nothing more than a creation of, and responsibility of, the state.)


If that doesn't compute, you need to call the Geek Squad or something.


BTW, feel free to point out where that has occurred in this thread

There are people that are beating up almost solely on Bush. That's pretty plain to see.

Your whole argument seems to boil down to, "I don't believe the feds should have a role in this." That's your belief;

Indeed.

the fact is, they do have a role

Even under the current system, they don't have as big a role as some people seem to think they have.

And that agency, under Bush's watch during Katrina, failed spectacularly.

Yes, it did. The solution is not to reform that agency, though, but to do away with it.
 
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