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(Wall Street Journal)   The Democratic field in '08: It's Hillary vs. everyone else   (opinionjournal.com) divider line
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358 clicks; posted to Politics » on 18 Jan 2007 at 9:55 AM (16 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



39 Comments     (+0 »)
 
bloobeary [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2007-01-18 9:59:50 AM  
I think you mean ANYone else.
 
malainse
2007-01-18 10:03:45 AM  
Too bad she can't win.
 
Code_Archeologist
2007-01-18 10:10:27 AM  
Not really... she is losing support at a significant rate. She lacks two things that just about every President of the TV politics era has had... Charisma and Personality.
 
adognamedcat
2007-01-18 10:10:42 AM  
If the democartic party is dumb engough to nominate her, then fark it, I am voting republican for the first time in my life.
 
WizardX
2007-01-18 10:11:24 AM  
The idea of Hillary as a candidate scares me. She has enough money and power *within the democratic party* to possibly secure the nomination.

But if she gets it, she's pretty much the only candidate the Democrats could field who would be virtually certain to lose.
 
kuaq
2007-01-18 10:13:07 AM  
This should be a fun thread.

DIAF Hillary; autistics don't need "curing" or "combatting"

/not bitter
//well a little
 
Sensei Can You See [TotalFark]
2007-01-18 10:14:05 AM  
WizardX: But if she gets it, she's pretty much the only candidate the Democrats could field who would be virtually certain to lose.

Other than Kerry, Edwards, Kucinich, Gephardt or Dean, you mean?
 
Rev. Skarekroe
2007-01-18 10:14:32 AM  
Code_Archeologist: Not really... she is losing support at a significant rate. She lacks two things that just about every President of the TV politics era has had... Charisma and Personality.

Also, a penis.
So three things.
 
WizardX
2007-01-18 10:15:21 AM  
Oh, come on, MyNameIsNotMervGriffin. That schtick is SO two weeks ago.

No one is pulling the "HA HA! No matter who you run, we'll win!" routine any more.

Didn't you get the talking points memo?

/sheesh
 
EvilEgg [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2007-01-18 10:16:11 AM  
MyNameIsNotMervGriffin: Kerry

Kerry came within a hair of winning last time, I wouldn't call him a sure loser.
 
FlashHarry [TotalFark]
2007-01-18 10:16:22 AM  
I think this is a case of the wingnuts dreaming. There's no way Hillary is getting the nomination. The only thing she has at this point is name recognition.

Listen, the reason the Republicans got their asses handed to them last November was the overwhelming disapproval of the war in Iraq. Hillary is pro-war. She's a hawk. The only people who are calling her a liberal are the crazies on the Right.

Remember: Most Americans are anti-Iraq war. Hillary is pro-Iraq war. Case closed.
 
Code_Archeologist
2007-01-18 10:26:14 AM  
Rev. Skarekroe
Also, a penis.
So three things.

No she has one of those, I think she keeps Bill's in her purse now.
 
Sensei Can You See [TotalFark]
2007-01-18 10:28:40 AM  
EvilEgg: Kerry came within a hair of winning last time, I wouldn't call him a sure loser.

Well, he can't run on his "I'm not Bush" platform anymore, which was really all he had; his war hero schtick is wearing mighty thin, he STILL has no legislative record to point to, and he's most famous for flip-flopping and sticking both feet in his mouth clear up to the knees.

Sounds like a real shoo-in, all right.
 
Sensei Can You See [TotalFark]
2007-01-18 10:32:07 AM  
WizardX: No one is pulling the "HA HA! No matter who you run, we'll win!" routine any more.

Eh? The election is still almost two years away; who knows what will happen?

Just pointing out that if they field Hillary along with the leftovers from last election's Nine Dwarves, they may as well not bother.

Obama--not sure about him. Everyone loves how fresh he is, but as the article said, an election tends to fill in the gaps in your resume in ways you don't like. And if anyone in US politics can smear Obama into roadkill, it's Hillary.

I'm sure everyone will end up blaming the GOP, just like they did over the Willie Horton thing. But mark my words: Hillary's looking to the Oval Office and she won't blink at destroying Obama in the attempt.
 
albo
2007-01-18 10:34:20 AM  
hillary has the money, the favors owed and the sheer iron will to get the nomination.

as for winning in the fall, i don't know. but none of us on the other side would bet against her. she is without a doubt the best politician of her generation and possibly the best in the country. if anyone could fight off negatives in the 40s like she has, it would be her
 
Sensei Can You See [TotalFark]
2007-01-18 10:41:59 AM  
EvilEgg: Kerry came within a hair of winning last time

Almost forgot: Kerry lost by about 3 percent of the popular vote. You got your hard left, hard right and mushy middle, the latter of which gets smaller every year. I remember analysts for the last election saying Bush and Kerry were competing for less than 10 percent of the votes out there; the rest were locked up long before the primaries even started.

If that's true, it's the closest thing to a landslide we're going to see in that election or the next.
 
REOIV
2007-01-18 10:42:30 AM  
I would vote for Dubya again before Hillary.

That is how much I hate her.

I would have voted for an inanimate carbon rode in 2004 if it had been an option that is how much I hated Kerry & Bush.

I just wish they would pick someone people liked.
 
NASAM
2007-01-18 10:44:08 AM  
The ONLY way the Republicans can win in '08 is if Hillary is the Democratic nominee.
 
EdNortonsTwin
2007-01-18 10:44:27 AM  
So she's uh, the Tiger Woods of presidential hopefulls?

I haven't really followed her career that closely, but can someone tell me why I am supposed to hate her other than she is somewhat butchy?

Sorry, getting news from Fark for a couple years now has numbed the brain and well, caused a bit of a twitch, a tw twi twitch.

See there it was; that twitch again.
 
Nemo's Brother
2007-01-18 10:44:52 AM  
Don't forget how quickly Dean got smashed and turned on. That was due to the similtaneous, yet unallied PR machines of the Clintons and the Bushes.

Obamma won't look as great next year after Hillary has taken off her gloves, so to speak.
 
Sensei Can You See [TotalFark]
2007-01-18 10:52:33 AM  
Nemo's Brother: That was due to the similtaneous, yet unallied PR machines of the Clintons and the Bushes.

Meh. Everyone blamed Bush/Hillary and/or the media for allegedly overplaying The Scream, but we need to remember The Scream was Dean's response to having gone down in flames in his very first primary. Dude never had a chance.
 
REOIV
2007-01-18 10:52:57 AM  
EdNortonsTwin: I haven't really followed her career that closely, but can someone tell me why I am supposed to hate her other than she is somewhat butchy?

Her Stance on Issues

She supports Illegal Immigrants
She supports gun control
She likes 3 strikes laws
She supports affirmative action

Those are sticklers for me, I would be a democrat through and through if they stopped pushing anti-gun laws and leinency for illegal immigrants.
 
Sensei Can You See [TotalFark]
2007-01-18 10:54:06 AM  
Nemo's Brother: Obamma won't look as great next year after Hillary has taken off her gloves, so to speak.

I agree with you there. Again, I bet the GOP will get blamed for any mud that sticks to him, just like they did for the Willie Horton business, but if Obama goes down it will be internicene fighting that does him in, just like Dukakis.
 
phrightener
2007-01-18 10:56:55 AM  
Well, you can certainly guess one thing about Hillary. Her blowjobs aren't very good.
 
Craptastic
2007-01-18 11:01:19 AM  
MyNameIsNotMervGriffin: and he's most famous for flip-flopping and sticking both feet in his mouth clear up to the knees.

Who are you talking about again?
 
Sensei Can You See [TotalFark]
2007-01-18 11:03:49 AM  
Craptastic: Who are you talking about again?

Kerry, although that description could fit many a pol.
 
lolmao666
2007-01-18 11:28:52 AM  
The ONLY way to save america would be to have Ron Paul elected. Go RON PAUL with Chuck Hagel for vice-president!
 
willywanka
2007-01-18 11:35:21 AM  
MyNameIsNotMervGriffin: Other than Kerry, Edwards, Kucinich, Gephardt or Dean, you mean?

I think Dean could have beaten Bush had the DLC not torpedoed him in favor of Kerry. The "yargh" crap was one of the most transparently overhyped non-stories ever circulated in the press, and until then he had a lot of momentum within the ranks of registered voters, something Kerry never had (he did, however, have the blessing of the DLC bigwigs, and sometimes that's all that really matters)
 
Sensei Can You See [TotalFark]
2007-01-18 11:41:27 AM  
willywanka: The "yargh" crap was one of the most transparently overhyped non-stories ever circulated in the press

Let's not forget that Dean blessed us with the "Yaargh!" because he had just gone down in flames in his very first primary--he came in third behind Kerry and Edwards.

That was not the media derailing an otherwise lovely campaign. It was the media deciding they "knew" who everyone loved and as usual being wildly out of step with where voters really were.
 
Riche [TotalFark]
2007-01-18 11:54:46 AM  
EdNortonsTwin
I haven't really followed her career that closely, but can someone tell me why I am supposed to hate her other than she is somewhat butchy?

1. She had Vince Foster killed.
2. She tried to destroy America's health care system.
3. She made a lot of money in the commodities market.
4. She once borrowed money from a S&L that later collapsed.
5. She thinks it "Takes A village"

....

Honestly? No rational reason that I'm aware of. Hillary was targeted along with her husband by the well thought out and well funded Republican hate machine the moment Bill Clinton was elected, denying the republican's rightful ownership of the White House. After 8 long years of constant smearing, many start to believe the lies.

That, and there's an awful lot of conservative Republicans who hate Hate HATE strong, confident women because they secretly fear them.

I disagree with Hillary Clinton's stance on many issues, but overall she would make a fine president-- Except for the Hillary Haters that would spend every waking moment tearing the nation apart.

Think I'm exaggerating? Look at all the years and taxpayer money blown to investigate Whitewater. All for nothing.

So, after years of trying to find something substantial to pin on the Clintons without success, these Republican haters actually went ahead and IMPEACHED a sitting president because he lied about a BJ.

It boggles the mind.
 
Sensei Can You See [TotalFark]
2007-01-18 11:59:21 AM  
Riche: Hillary was targeted along with her husband by the well thought out and well funded Republican hate machine the moment Bill Clinton was elected

Right. There is NO POSSIBILITY WHATSOEVER than some folks simply disagree with her policies and positions and thus don't want her in the White House.
 
Sensei Can You See [TotalFark]
2007-01-18 12:00:51 PM  
Riche: Look at all the years and taxpayer money blown to investigate Whitewater. All for nothing.

Excuse me, but the final report said there was clear evidence that the Clintons committed fraud, but gaining enough of the kind of evidence needed to convict them of anything would be prohibitively expensive, so he preferred to just drop it.
 
Riche [TotalFark]
2007-01-18 12:05:27 PM  
MyNameIsNotMervGriffin
Right. There is NO POSSIBILITY WHATSOEVER than some folks simply disagree with her policies and positions and thus don't want her in the White House.

There's a big difference between disagreeing with Hillary and hating her with the white-hot passion of a thousand suns.

You should know that.

Hell, I disagree with many of her positions.
 
Riche [TotalFark]
2007-01-18 12:10:50 PM  
MyNameIsNotMervGriffin
Excuse me, but the final report said there was clear evidence that the Clintons committed fraud, but gaining enough of the kind of evidence needed to convict them of anything would be prohibitively expensive, so he preferred to just drop it.

Reputation saving Bullshiat, for the most part.

Face it, if you don't have anything to go to a jury with after $50 million and six years of trying, it ain't gonna happen.
 
EdNortonsTwin
2007-01-18 12:28:47 PM  
I remember Whitewater. The investigative journalist Greg Palast suggested the Repubs backed-off that one because while this was happening Bush Senior was a senior advisor working with Kahama Mining Company, Ltd - a company that evicted 200k native miners in Tanzania -- and buried dozens of miners alive. Someone close to the Clintons was also on the advisory board - hence the information coming to the Clintons attention.

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?ItemID=3279

(GIS for more)

There was supposedly a draw declared and that one, so the Repubs went ahead with Doug Stars campaign to expose Clintons extra-marital affairs.

Even the Conservatives I know agree that Star embarrassed this country with his investigation.

Dark game politics is.
 
Sensei Can You See [TotalFark]
2007-01-18 12:34:31 PM  
Riche: There's a big difference between disagreeing with Hillary and hating her with the white-hot passion of a thousand suns.

Exactly. What I object to is the assumption that anyone disagreeing with Hillary disagrees BECAUSE he or she hates Hillary.

And the underlying assumption is that all right-thinking people would agree with/vote for her if they weren't blinded by their passions or stupid or so easily led astray by the GOP attack machine or whatever.

Democrats seem inherently incapable of realizing that sometimes voters look at the issues, compare candidates and choose someone who's not a Democrat. It's always stolen votes or lies or short-sighted voters or people fooled by spin or something, ANYTHING but the Dems having a lousy candidate.
 
madtowner11
2007-01-18 12:37:41 PM  
I, like, EdNortonsTwin do not understand why people say they hate Hillary so much. I don't have much of an opinion on her, actually.

When "they" say Hillary is anti-gun, does that mean she wants all guns taken away from all citizens? Or maybe does it mean that she doesn't want felons to have assault rifles? One never knows unless one is in a no-spin zone.

Anyway, as far as Hillary goes, I could think of a lot of worse things that Bill Clinton as the First Man giving her advice.

/Doesn't anyone remember what an awesome president Bill Clinton was?
//I do
 
PartTimeBuddha [OhFark]
2007-01-18 1:00:33 PM  
I don't think I'd like Hillary in the White House. I don't know that much about her myself, and perhaps she's an excellent candidate, but I think it's dangerous for the US - especially following president's terrible precedents - to have another member of a Presidential family in there. Presidents are limited in terms for good reason.

I think it puts constitutional democracy at risk.

/No offence, Mrs Clinton.
//It's structural, not personal.
 
Gosling
2007-01-18 5:12:27 PM  
Hillary Clinton embodies everything that is wrong with politics (with the exception of corruption). While it may be true that most people in Congress will say and do anything for one more vote, this is more true for Hillary than for anyone else.

She fails the most crucial test I can give a candidate: "If I voted for this person, could I sleep that night knowing that I helped this person get elected or re-elected?" If the answer is no, I do not care who else is on the ballot, you will not get my vote. If both major candidates fail, I will look at the third parties whom I likely haven't gotten familiar enough with to be disgusted with. If EVERYBODY on the ballot fails that test, I will write in a protest novelty vote and look at the other races because I'll be damned if I'm leaving that thing blank.
 
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