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(krld)   Texas to consider the death penalty for repeat sex offenders   (krld.com) divider line
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7111 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 15 Jan 2007 at 9:09 PM (15 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2007-01-15 7:10:51 PM  
Well, the article does make the point I came in here to make: if the penalty for molestation/rape is the same as murder, killing the only witness starts looking like a good idea. It ain't that I'm soft on crime, I just like to think things through first. Actions have consequences.

I say, try gelding. Cut their balls off. See how they rape without them. You'd be surprised how important they are for arousal.

Or just tattoo "Kid Raper" on their foreheads and let them into the general prison population. Let things go naturally from there.
 
2007-01-15 7:18:44 PM  
Saborlas: Or just tattoo "Kid Raper" on their foreheads and let them into the general prison population. Let things go naturally from there.

Personally, I think they should just be general population prisoners. No need for special treatment or tattoos. Things would work themselves out.
 
2007-01-15 7:20:27 PM  
As long as it's not the ones who were just caught peeing behind a bush. Cause nudity != sexual, necessarily.
 
2007-01-15 7:20:49 PM  
FTA: ``The idea is to prevent these kinds of crimes,'' said Dewhurst spokesman Rich Parsons. ``It sends a clear signal and maybe these monsters will think twice before committing a crime.''

Let's be clear on this....I loathe child molesters. In most cases I am on the "they get the worst punishment available" bandwagon.

However, the death penalty as a deterrent argument doesn't hold water. We all know that Texas likes to kill killers. They do it more often than any other state. They are good at it. But...they still have new murderers.

Saborlas makes a good point as well. This law may have the unintended consequence of higher death rates in molestation cases.

/Chemical castration? Why not - at least for repeat offenders.
 
2007-01-15 7:20:54 PM  
Saborlas: I say, try gelding. Cut their balls off. See how they rape without them. You'd be surprised how important they are for arousal.


Sadly, the only thing that would stand up to a court challenge is chemical castration, and perhaps not even that.

Someone who's willing to rape isn't really thinking that much about what the criminal justice system will do to them, though. Punishment has only ever worked as a deterrent for petty theives and the like, not hardened criminals or sexual perverts/rapists.

I say light 'em up, Texas.
 
2007-01-15 7:22:28 PM  
ExcessNeckSkin: However, the death penalty as a deterrent argument doesn't hold water.


You're right. I'm very pro-DP and I don't ever make that argument. It's about justice in the individual case, not any overarching social implications.
 
2007-01-15 7:24:16 PM  
Saborlas: I say, try gelding

For repeat offenders?... sure.

As much as I'd like to see them in the general population, it would be like handing a gun to someone who is about to kill someone else.

If you're prepared to do that, then we might as well start a "Running Man" type of game show.

/Which might be kinda cool.
 
2007-01-15 7:25:33 PM  
 
2007-01-15 7:32:52 PM  
You have to be a retard to be pro death penalty.

Is the death penalty worth a single innocent life? I'm not against it because I think it is too cruel, I just know that our justice system is not perfect and that we kill innocent people.
 
2007-01-15 7:41:33 PM  
parkedr: Is the death penalty worth a single innocent life? I'm not against it because I think it is too cruel, I just know that our justice system is not perfect and that we kill innocent people.

Are harsh prison sentences worth ruining a single life?

/just sayin'
 
2007-01-15 7:42:49 PM  
Yay for civilization!
[image from home.comcast.net too old to be available]
 
2007-01-15 7:43:42 PM  
bigpete53: Are harsh prison sentences worth ruining a single life?

Prison sentences can be reversed. Executions can't.
 
2007-01-15 7:43:43 PM  
Repeat death penalties for repeat offenders.
 
2007-01-15 7:44:38 PM  
parkedr: You have to be a retard to be pro death penalty


Ah, well since you put it that way!

Is the death penalty worth a single innocent life?

No.

I just know that our justice system is not perfect and that we kill innocent people.

There are some cases that are beyond any doubt. Not just beyond "reasonable" doubt, but any doubt. Those are the cases we should use the DP on.

bigpete53: Are harsh prison sentences worth ruining a single life?

Very good point.
 
2007-01-15 7:44:41 PM  
untrustworthy: Prison sentences can be reversed. Executions can't.

Tell that to the guy who spent 20 years in prison convicted of sodomizing and murdering 3 boys. His wife left him, he's lost all his money, and his life is in shambles. He'll never be the same.

I'd rather be dead.
 
2007-01-15 7:46:15 PM  
untrustworthy: Prison sentences can be reversed.

No, they can't. You lock someone up for decades, that can't be reversed. You've ruined their lives, and it can't be reversed.

Yay for civilization!

Yay for illogical emotional appeals!
 
2007-01-15 7:47:19 PM  
bigpete53: Tell that to the guy who spent 20 years in prison convicted of sodomizing and murdering 3 boys. His wife left him, he's lost all his money, and his life is in shambles. He'll never be the same.

I'd rather be dead.


Then kill yourself if you find yourself in that situation. However, I'm willing to bet most people would be happy to have the chance to move on with their lives.
 
2007-01-15 7:48:48 PM  
Capital punishment should be an option.
 
2007-01-15 7:48:54 PM  
untrustworthy: However, I'm willing to bet most people would be happy to have the chance to move on with their lives.

That's not the point. He might be able to put together some sembelance of a life, but he's still been done irreparable, and unquantifiable, harm. Harm that can't be "undone".

What about the ones who aren't ever proven innocent, and die in prison?
 
2007-01-15 7:49:28 PM  
Churchill2004: No, they can't. You lock someone up for decades, that can't be reversed. You've ruined their lives, and it can't be reversed.

They can be released, right?

Yay for illogical emotional appeals!

I'm simply pointing out the *great* company we keep.
 
2007-01-15 7:51:09 PM  
untrustworthy: Then kill yourself if you find yourself in that situation. However, I'm willing to bet most people would be happy to have the chance to move on with their lives.

Great. So your grand solution is to end my life anyhow. If the end result is the same, why not just do it to begin with?
 
2007-01-15 7:51:34 PM  
Churchill2004: That's not the point. He might be able to put together some sembelance of a life, but he's still been done irreparable, and unquantifiable, harm. Harm that can't be "undone".

But they can be released.

What about the ones who aren't ever proven innocent, and die in prison?

Our judicial system is flawed. We must endeavor to keep the innocent out of the system. I'd rather see a guilty man set free than an innocent man imprisoned. The fact that the latter happens only shows that taking the permanent action of executing someone is not only pointless, but speeds up the permanance of a faulty decision.
 
2007-01-15 7:52:30 PM  
bigpete53: Great. So your grand solution is to end my life anyhow. If the end result is the same, why not just do it to begin with?

Because I'm willing that most people wouldn't rather be dead.
 
2007-01-15 7:53:54 PM  
untrustworthy: They can be released, right?


Cool. So I'll accuse of a crime, drag your name through the mud until you're despised by the rest of humanity, and then lock you up for two or three decades. If I let you out after all that, It'll be cool, right?

I'm simply pointing out the *great* company we keep.

Except that the nature of the DP in most of those nations isn't even remotely comparable to the nature of the DP in the US.

The only true comparisons on there are Japan, S. Korea, and Taiwan. Not that bad compmany, in my opinion.
 
2007-01-15 7:54:05 PM  
Hrm... there should be a "to bet" in that last one. I'll let you figure out where it goes.
 
2007-01-15 7:55:42 PM  
Churchill2004: Cool. So I'll accuse of a crime, drag your name through the mud until you're despised by the rest of humanity, and then lock you up for two or three decades. If I let you out after all that, It'll be cool, right?

It wouldn't be "cool" but it would be better than being dead.

Except that the nature of the DP in most of those nations isn't even remotely comparable to the nature of the DP in the US.

So we're moving to make it more like those other nations?

The only true comparisons on there are Japan, S. Korea, and Taiwan. Not that bad compmany, in my opinion.

When compared to the rest of the civilized world, I have to disagree.
 
2007-01-15 7:55:49 PM  
untrustworthy: Because I'm willing that most people wouldn't rather be dead.

I disagree.

When someone is convicted of murder, his life is pretty much over, especially if there was a woman or children involved. It doesn't matter if that person is set free, his life is altered forever, and not in a good way. You can't "undo" it, and that's the entire basis of your argument for why captial punishment should be outlawed.

By furthering your argument, one could say that because no punishment can be undone, there should be no punishment at all.
 
2007-01-15 7:56:14 PM  
untrustworthy: Our judicial system is flawed.


I agree. The Scott Peterson death sentence made me very nervous, even though I thought he was guilty as hell, because it was all circumstantial.

There are some cases, however, where there is no doubt. Those are the cases we should use the DP.

But they can be released.

That's not the point. Releasing them doesn't undo the harm you done to them.
 
2007-01-15 7:57:01 PM  
Churchill2004: Those are the cases we should use the DP on.

Sure. Good luck implementing that. And until we can, we need to get rid of the death penalty.
 
2007-01-15 7:58:24 PM  
untrustworthy: It wouldn't be "cool" but it would be better than being dead.

Only marginally.

So we're moving to make it more like those other nations?

No, we're not.

When compared to the rest of the civilized world, I have to disagree.

Japan, S. Korea, and Taiwan aren't part of the civilized world?

Besides, just pointing to the fact that most western nations don't have the DP means nothing. Most western nations(read: Europe) have a lot of things that we're perfectly happy without here in the US, and vice versa.
 
2007-01-15 7:59:06 PM  
parkedr: Sure. Good luck implementing that.

In most states that's already the case. DNA is required in several states, if I recall correctly.
 
2007-01-15 7:59:30 PM  
bigpete53: I disagree.

Ok. So what now? Do we take a poll?

When someone is convicted of murder, his life is pretty much over, especially if there was a woman or children involved. It doesn't matter if that person is set free, his life is altered forever, and not in a good way. You can't "undo" it, and that's the entire basis of your argument for why captial punishment should be outlawed.

That's not the entire basis for my argument. I have plenty of other reasons. The fallibility aspect is just one.

By furthering your argument, one could say that because no punishment can be undone, there should be no punishment at all.

If that's the way you want to take it then I could say that by furthering your argument, anyone who is imprisoned should just be executed since their lives are already over.
 
2007-01-15 8:01:57 PM  
Churchill2004: There are some cases, however, where there is no doubt. Those are the cases we should use the DP.

Our system should only imprison people if there is no reasonable doubt. Unfortunately, that isn't always the case.

That's not the point. Releasing them doesn't undo the harm you done to them.

It's still better than killing them.

Only marginally.

IMO, that's a pretty big margin.

No, we're not.

As this article indicates, it sure sounds like it.

Japan, S. Korea, and Taiwan aren't part of the civilized world?

They are only a few. Look at the whole map.

Besides, just pointing to the fact that most western nations don't have the DP means nothing. Most western nations(read: Europe) have a lot of things that we're perfectly happy without here in the US, and vice versa.

Sure. But when you take all of the nations into account, it makes me wonder just a bit.
 
2007-01-15 8:04:50 PM  
I'll be back shortly to deal with everyone who calls me a "pinko liberal ACLU criminal lover".
 
2007-01-15 8:04:57 PM  
untrustworthy: If that's the way you want to take it then I could say that by furthering your argument, anyone who is imprisoned should just be executed since their lives are already over.

I'm not arguing any point pro or con - I'm arguing that using the argument "the DP should be outlawed because it can't be undone" is not valid.
 
2007-01-15 8:13:20 PM  
Oh man, someone get the smore fixin's, this is going to be a hot one.
 
2007-01-15 8:13:30 PM  
Churchill2004: DNA is required in several states, if I recall correctly.

What does that have to do with anything? What if I take some crazy broad home from a bar and bang her. Then she freaks out and scratches me. After I leave, she calls and brags about it to her boyfriend and he pushes her off a balcony.

How does you DNA prove anything there, smartypants? Is there any doubt that I should receive the DP in that case?
 
2007-01-15 8:34:52 PM  
untrustworthy: They are only a few. Look at the whole map.

Who give a fark what a bunch of inferior countries think?
 
2007-01-15 8:36:36 PM  
Hope the DA goes after this guy first.....

[image from 991.com too old to be available]
 
2007-01-15 8:37:28 PM  
parkedr: What does that have to do with anything? What if I take some crazy broad home from a bar and bang her. Then she freaks out and scratches me. After I leave, she calls and brags about it to her boyfriend and he pushes her off a balcony.

How does you DNA prove anything there, smartypants? Is there any doubt that I should receive the DP in that case?


Maybe you even impregnated her! Double homocide-double death penalty for you.

Disclosure: I always think parkedr deserves the death penalty.
 
2007-01-15 9:15:14 PM  
Churchill2004: It's about justice in the individual case, not any overarching social implications.

By justice, you mean retribution. Come on man, quit being politically correct and just say it as it is.
 
2007-01-15 9:15:53 PM  
I believe they have been considering this for some time, and was a factor in the Clinton's decision to move to New York rather than Texas.
 
2007-01-15 9:15:57 PM  
My only concern would be with the whole 18-22 or so year old sleeping with a 16-17 year old, and being labeled a child molester/sex offender and recieving the death penalty because of some mad parents fighting the case...
 
2007-01-15 9:16:12 PM  
Ship them all off together to the Magical Isle of Buttsecks.
 
2007-01-15 9:18:13 PM  
Is there a "farking crazy biatch who's lying through her teeth" escape clause?
 
2007-01-15 9:19:36 PM  
csdebaser: Ship them all off together to the Magical Isle of Buttsecks.

Where is this beautiful place?
 
2007-01-15 9:21:00 PM  
America can kill anyone they want. If they have a law that prohibits it, there'll be another law or two that makes it possible.

USA wanted Saddam dead. They can't assasinate foreign leaders. Solution: invade the country and let someone else do it.
 
2007-01-15 9:23:28 PM  
I'd say chemical castration is probably the way to go here.
 
2007-01-15 9:23:37 PM  
Save the money and just put the sickos in general population.
 
2007-01-15 9:23:43 PM  
OlafTheBent: If you're prepared to do that, then we might as well start a "Running Man" type of game show.

/Which might be kinda cool.


Movie or book? Because the movie sucked balls.
 
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