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(Some fibber)   Old and busted: polygraph lie detectors. The new hotness: fMRI lie detectors, which nail you before you even speak   ( divider line
    More: Scary  
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2080 clicks; posted to Geek » on 14 Jan 2007 at 7:52 PM (11 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»

21 Comments     (+0 »)
2007-01-14 05:42:09 PM  
[image from too old to be available]
2007-01-14 05:54:19 PM  
So now police stations are going to have to have MRI machines?

/this can't turn out well
2007-01-14 06:23:14 PM  
While polygraph machines are common on detective shows and in courtroom dramas, their accuracy can be called into question.

No. Their accuracy cannot be called into question, because it has never been shown to be of any use in determining truthfulness or deceit*. Well, braindead f*cking morons can call it into question, but anyone with an ounce of sense cannot.

* Well, they are effective tools in dissuading people who believe that they work from lying, but that's not telling truth from falsehood, that's scamming a rube.
2007-01-14 06:25:40 PM  
If by "accuracy be called into question" they mean "flip a farking coin" then sure.
2007-01-14 06:50:13 PM  

First thing I thought of too.
2007-01-14 07:04:03 PM  
Can we have an "Oh...great" tag?
2007-01-14 08:05:50 PM  
I really hope that polygraphs go away, that people in the media stop making any mention of them in a favorable light. I really hate it when some brain-dead newscaster says that person 'X' was asked to take a polygraph but refused. I would refuse as they are crap, they give both false positives and false negatives. The notion that they are crap has to be repeated over and over so the dolts stop giving them any consideration.

I'd rather we spent money on making better citizens and better policing than this.
2007-01-14 09:16:27 PM  
fMRI is cool and all, but if the person has a nonstandard brain, it'll be crap. Furthermore, fMRI gets so much random noise impacting its results (I study at a psychology lab with a modern fMRI machine and am really getting a kick out of these replies...) that it's quite likely to get false positives.

Heck, it'll even pick up unreasonable doubt. This is not a lie detector.
2007-01-14 09:25:52 PM  
Tried a polygraoh once..Nerves twitch so much that the machine freaked out for no reason.

/Not in law.
2007-01-14 10:25:24 PM  
captainktainer: Heck, it'll even pick up unreasonable doubt. This is not a lie detector.

All you have to do is make your evil minions believe your truth, as opposed to what actually happened, and they will beat this with ease.

/not a plot for a sci fi story at all
2007-01-14 10:45:17 PM  
Company I used to work for was developing a prototype hand-held MRI machine. I don't know how far they got, but if that comes to fruition and this guy's research pans out I wouldn't be surprised to see these in police stations in 10-15 years.
2007-01-14 11:12:42 PM  
Well, tests under lab conditions usually aren't all that reliable. Firstly, there's not going to be the anxiety of being tested by police, secondly, the subject isn't actively trying to thwart the process.

There's not much difference in the MRI of someone doing an action and someone imagining an action, plus all MRI are thresholds relative to a baseline. You could probably confuse everything if you imagine lying nonstop throughout the baseline plus test.
2007-01-14 11:23:19 PM  
Polygraphs are a joke. The only country that uses them TO ANY EXTENT is the United States. Elsewhere they are considered laughable.

A polygraph doesn't measure anything that could be used to determine guilt; instead the effect is more psychological. If a suspect believes that a polygraph really works, they will be unwilling to take a polygraph if they have a guilty conscience.

Of course, a guilty person who knows that polygraphs are a joke can take it and pass, thereby diverting suspicion away from themself.
2007-01-15 01:02:37 AM  
Assume we have test X, which can tell if you're lying 100% of the time. What self incrimination issues does this bring up?

If you're on trial and for each response you give, there's a meter above the stand telling the jury how truthful you're being, how is that any different from forcing you to testify against yourself?
2007-01-15 05:08:20 AM  

"Taking the fifth" means not testifying at all.
2007-01-15 09:21:36 AM  
[image from too old to be available]
(The Thetans made me hotlink it)
2007-01-15 09:22:50 AM  
Sounds like the test the Feds give Y.T's mom in Snow Crash.
2007-01-15 11:58:57 AM  
I wonder if Inderal will fark it up as thoroughly as it does a polygraph.
2007-01-15 07:00:22 PM  
2007-01-15 08:57:17 PM  
Another thing to consider, is the fact that policemen are most-times armed. That in itself is not a surprise to anyone, I imagine.

The problem is that MRI's work by hugely extending the field lines of normal magnets (or neodymium magnets or electromagnets, can't remember). The effect is that everything magnetically affectable within a certain area will suddenly feel very VERY friendly towards the MRI and practically fly to give it a hug.

Imagine a chop shop car magnet with a 100yrd range and practically no loss in magnetic power during those 100 yrds... get the picture?
2007-01-16 01:22:08 PM  
Wiggle your toes!
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