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(Yahoo)   Egyptian newspaper editor calls ISG report "the end of America"; urges Arabs to "capture this moment when the US is at its weakest." This can only end well   (news.yahoo.com) divider line
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612 clicks; posted to Politics » on 08 Dec 2006 at 1:08 PM (16 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



42 Comments     (+0 »)
 
KazamaSmokers
2006-12-08 12:52:08 PM  
You really have to wonder.

The Russians have tons of oil. They're only too happy to see us in the fix we're in.

The Chinese can go for ages on their coal fields. They're energy independent as long as they are content to fark the environment.

The Iranians are getting everything they want: Iraq in chaos, us mired there and pouring all out cash down the Iraq hole, the Saudis distracted feeding the insurgency, and an administration that has only a cursory interest in alternative energy.

It's almost a perfect storm type of thing. It will take some real exceptional creativity and vision to extract us from the mess this administration has created.
 
GaryPDX
2006-12-08 12:57:43 PM  
That nutball in Iran is going to get his Caliphate without much of a fight.

Better start putting up the defenses here at home.
 
ninth_level_dan
2006-12-08 12:59:59 PM  
gee... you put it that way Kazama and the Britney Spear divorce almost seems inconsequential by comparison. Are you saying we need to change our priorities as well?

(rampant sarcasm... couldn't agree with you more, but you forgot Poland)
 
McRat
2006-12-08 1:00:24 PM  
Somewhere, I imagine Saddam is smiling.

He knew what type of people he was dealing with, and dealt with them accordingly.
 
Knob_Gobbler
2006-12-08 1:01:03 PM  
Well, the good news is that the auto industry is finally getting behind alternate energy sources. The income potential has become apparent as a way to save the industry in America.

I heard this on a Scientific American podcast; don't dispute me!
 
heap
2006-12-08 1:01:44 PM  
i just find it kinda sad that a report is a crystallizing statement of the obvious....so the report must be the center of attention, rather than the inclination to avoid the obvious for this long.
 
albo
2006-12-08 1:07:53 PM  
the radical islamists are emboldened and it's only a matter of time before another huge attack on our soil. and after that one, i think we'll probably go for the traditional victory of war, total humiliation and overwhelming defeat, rather than a failed attempt to democratize those who seem to have proven they cannot or will not be democratized
 
Jabber
2006-12-08 1:12:37 PM  
America is not at it's weakest ever. We just really really suck at choosing our battles. We need to stop getting into wars that we cannot win and start shoring up our own borders.
 
KaponoFor3
2006-12-08 1:13:08 PM  
albo: and after that one, i think we'll probably go for the traditional victory of war, total humiliation and overwhelming defeat, rather than a failed attempt to democratize those who seem to have proven they cannot or will not be democratized

Unlikely, unless the attack resulted in a huge loss of American life (10,000 plus) and was cheered and applauded by Middle Eastern governments (say, for example, if it were applauded by Iran, Palestinians, Wahhabist Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Hezbollah-controlled Lebanon). That's really the only way I could see the American public going "fark it, let's go kill them all World War II style". And you'd always have that segment of society that would think the attacks were justified and that we shouldn't fight back, but should just try to "better understand" those who attacked us.
 
SacriliciousBeerSwiller
2006-12-08 1:13:45 PM  
OMFG teh terrists feel emmboldenned, teh report is bad! Accuracy and honnesty are fer pinkos!!!

/idiots
 
heap
2006-12-08 1:14:39 PM  
albo: the radical islamists are emboldened

yah, they were as soon as we undertook this little adventure.

what now?
 
canyoneer
2006-12-08 1:15:11 PM  
Delusions abound. American conservatives think that "losing" in Iraq will mean we will have to "fight them over here." Koran thumpers think if the Americans leave Iraq, it will be a "great victory" for them.

Meanwhile, approximately 99% of all Americans think they can continue to drive around in cars indefinitely. This is the most dangerous delusion of them all, and has led to all of this stupid mess, and the subsequent fantasies and delusions on all sides.
 
albo
2006-12-08 1:18:17 PM  
yah, they were as soon as we undertook this little adventure.

they were before that, starting with beirut bug out in teh early 80s, the somalia failure, and not responding in force to attacks in africa and on the uss cole pre-9/11.

the bottom line: not responding to islamists fails. responding in force works but encourages further terrorists. we are screwed either way. until we renounce support for israel and withdraw from influencing world affairs, the islamic radicals will hate us and fight us
 
SacriliciousBeerSwiller
2006-12-08 1:18:32 PM  
Jabber:
America is not at it's weakest ever. We just really really suck at choosing our battles. We need to stop getting into wars that we cannot win and start shoring up our own borders.

That's what's annoying about all this. We did win the war, by the traditional definition. What we're failing at is nation building. All the while the neocons keep saying that it's an ongoing "war on terror", and the cluefarks still don't get that you cannot defeat a nebulous ideology. It's no more a legitimate "real" war than the "war on cancer" or the "war on drugs" or the "war on trans-fat".
 
heap
2006-12-08 1:21:24 PM  
albo:
the bottom line: not responding to islamists fails.

hey look - responding to islamists failed!

until we renounce support for israel and withdraw from influencing world affairs, the islamic radicals will hate us and fight us

so...how is this 'emboldening the islamaloons' any more than staying there with unchanged policies? oh. it's not.
 
SacriliciousBeerSwiller
2006-12-08 1:22:03 PM  
albo:
until we renounce support for israel and withdraw from influencing world affairs, the islamic radicals will hate us and fight us

B-b-b-but the Israelis have turned it into such a beautiful country! And we need Israel to help fight the terrorists that hate us for supporting Israel! If Israel didn't exist, who'd defend us from the terrorists who'll attack us for supporting them?

/just getting the stupid circular logic that will inevitably be offered up out of the way
 
playblu
2006-12-08 1:24:31 PM  
It'd be nice if the two major parties could take this opportunity to collaborate on reducing our dependence on foreign oil ("I'll trade you higher pollution standards for more nuclear plants... okay, I'll trade you drilling in Alaska for higher-mileage vehicle research funding...").

Because the root problem in EVERYTHING in the middle east is that we're paying obscene amounts of money to people who A)live in the 14th century (and prefer to), and B)farking hate us. I don't care why they hate us and I don't care why they prefer to live in the 14th century. But if they weren't getting OUR MONEY hand over fist, in exchange for oil, they would hit each other with sticks and cut off their daughters clitoris' to their hearts content, and LEAVE US ALONE.

Ever hear somebody complain how we don't worry about things in Sudan or Rwanda because they don't have oil? That's correct. Is it because we're racist? No, it's because if you're going to piss somebody off, better to do it to someone who can't afford to blow up one of your cities.
 
GaryPDX
2006-12-08 1:25:48 PM  
every time we fill our gas tank, some asshat get's a load of symtex.
 
albo
2006-12-08 1:27:07 PM  
so...how is this 'emboldening the islamaloons' any more than staying there with unchanged policies? oh. it's not.

because this means they win. arabs are a shame and honor culture. in real terms, we kicked the crap out of the iraqi army, the best of the arab world, in weeks, and destroyed much of al qaeda, but our failure to finish the job means, to them, that they won--they punched at the big guy and he left.
 
karasoth
2006-12-08 1:27:15 PM  
Obvious tag was robbed
 
heap
2006-12-08 1:31:40 PM  
albo: because this means they win.

again - look at the stated goals of these groups in 1999/2000. they even had press conferences, for chrissakes.

i'd have to say getting ensnared in a regional conflict with no good end in sight was a win for them the second we made that choice.

the same question still stands.

what now?
 
PC LOAD LETTER [TotalFark]
2006-12-08 1:36:41 PM  
This is the end of America??!?!?


I better start packing.
 
scratched
2006-12-08 1:37:39 PM  
albo: because this means they win. arabs are a shame and honor culture. in real terms, we kicked the crap out of the iraqi army, the best of the arab world, in weeks, and destroyed much of al qaeda, but our failure to finish the job means, to them, that they won--they punched at the big guy and he left.

And how do you propose we 'finish the job'?
 
SacriliciousBeerSwiller
2006-12-08 1:38:12 PM  
No matter what we do, they will spin it however they like to claim they are winning or won. It's all politics. Forcing them to admit defeat is an impossible goal. If making everyone in the region acknowledge any victory on our part was a goal, we lost the day we invaded.

I have yet to hear a reasonable scenario for "victory" from Bush.
 
SacriliciousBeerSwiller
2006-12-08 1:40:10 PM  
SacriliciousBeerSwiller:
No matter what we do, they will spin it however they like to claim they are winning or won. It's all politics. Forcing them to admit defeat is an impossible goal.

"They" being the various opposition in Iraq. Just realized that one could easily think I was referring to the neocons.
 
heap
2006-12-08 1:44:07 PM  
SacriliciousBeerSwiller: If making everyone in the region acknowledge any victory on our part was a goal, we lost the day we invaded.

if fark was charades, this would be the part where i touched my nose rather emphatically.
 
Saiga410
2006-12-08 1:50:12 PM  
playblu "It'd be nice if the two major parties could take this opportunity to collaborate on reducing our dependence on foreign oil ("I'll trade you higher pollution standards for more nuclear plants... okay, I'll trade you drilling in Alaska for higher-mileage vehicle research funding...")."

This needs to be said again.
 
SherKhan
2006-12-08 1:52:30 PM  
"capture this moment when the US is at its weakest."

I believe someone in Imperial Japan once gave very similar counsel.
 
clancifer
2006-12-08 1:59:26 PM  
We look weak because we act weak. The kindler, gentler occupation doesn't seem to be cutting it. On the extreme other side we have self-governing asshats that abuse prisoners and take digital pictures for their friends.

In reality, the US will bend over backwards not to offend Muslims. Yet remember those beheading videos? That's the kind of enemy we are facing.
 
SunOfSam
2006-12-08 2:01:40 PM  
Internationally the U.S. is in pretty deep shiat, but I think the gravest threat right now is internal corruption and incompetance.

The fact that the Katrina mess is nowhere near clean and Ground Zero is still a wasteland are highly troubling to me.
 
IPOOPONU
2006-12-08 2:03:21 PM  
Wow, our middle eastern allies sure are great! aren't they?
/DIAF
 
KazamaSmokers
2006-12-08 2:08:50 PM  
2006-12-08 01:27:07 PM albo

because this means they win. arabs are a shame and honor culture. in real terms, we kicked the crap out of the iraqi army, the best of the arab world, in weeks, and destroyed much of al qaeda, but our failure to finish the job means, to them, that they won--they punched at the big guy and he left.

Albo is right. It's Somalia Syndrome. Unfortunately, =I don't know how you fix it.
 
Bill_Wick's_Friend
2006-12-08 2:10:05 PM  
The kindler, gentler occupation doesn't seem to be cutting it.

WMDs - lies (or really really poor intel analysis, if you prefer)

Al Qaeda connections - lies (or really really poor intel analysis, if you prefer)

Liberation of the people from a dictator - not yet proven to be a lie. Moving away from "kinder gentler" and back towards "brutal occupation", however, would shove that into the "lie" column too.
 
BoozePenguin
2006-12-08 2:11:12 PM  
"I don't know how you fix it."

The Shia death squads do. You kill off your opposition and bring the rest of the population to submission through fear.

Orderly societies in the middle east are maintained through brutality.
 
heap
2006-12-08 2:14:52 PM  
KazamaSmokers: Unfortunately, =I don't know how you fix it.

in absolutely no seriousness what so ever, why don't we make asymmetrical warfare....symmetrical?

let loose the Montana militia whackos in waziristan.
 
gilgigamesh
2006-12-08 2:16:51 PM  
McRat


Somewhere, I imagine Saddam is smiling.

I rather doubt that since he's got about 30 days to live.
 
Maud Dib
2006-12-08 2:22:29 PM  
clancifer has taken up the mantle of tgot and ericjohnson quite admirably, don't you agree?
 
gilgigamesh
2006-12-08 2:24:44 PM  
albo

the radical islamists are emboldened and it's only a matter of time before another huge attack on our soil. and after that one, i think we'll probably go for the traditional victory of war, total humiliation and overwhelming defeat, rather than a failed attempt to democratize those who seem to have proven they cannot or will not be democratized

We completely gutted the government and expected it to be replaced with a flourishing democracy within months. That kind of thinking is delusional on a level on par with Manson's plans to incite a race war.

If the invasion and reconstruction had been carried out with a shred of competence, it may of worked. Alas, we will never know.
 
whidbey
2006-12-08 2:33:29 PM  
clancifer: In reality, the US will bend over backwards not to offend Muslims.

There is no need to offend them. Muslims aren't the problem, it's fanatical nutcases with an axe to grind.

You should know that by now.

Yet remember those beheading videos? That's the kind of enemy we are facing.

We shouldn't be giving them any credibility. They're criminals and should be treated as such. This does not justify any change in tactic, other than to make better use of intelligence.
 
lolmao666
2006-12-08 2:39:36 PM  
HAHAHA. Good advice. Will never happen, and it's not the moment, the US is not at his weakest...yet, wait in a couple of months.
 
clancifer
2006-12-08 3:20:02 PM  
Maud Dib

clancifer has taken up the mantle of tgot and ericjohnson quite admirably, don't you agree?

As an atheist and social liberal, I don't think they'd fully welcome me into their club.
 
Geotpf
2006-12-08 6:48:59 PM  
That's great, it starts with an earthquake, birds and snakes,
an aeroplane - Lenny Bruce is not afraid.
Eye of a hurricane, listen to yourself churn,
world serves its own needs, dummy serve your own needs.
Feed it off an aux speak,, grunt, no, strength,
The ladder starts to clatter with fear fight down height.
Wire in a fire, representing seven games, a government for hire and a combat site.
Left of west and coming in a hurry with the furies breathing down your neck.
Team by team reporters baffled, trumped, tethered cropped.
Look at that low playing!
Fine, then.
Uh oh, overflow, population, common food, but it'll do.
Save yourself, serve yourself. World serves its own needs, listen to your heart bleed dummy with the rapture and the revered and the right - right.
You vitriolic, patriotic, slam, fight, bright light, feeling pretty psyched.

It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's the end of the world as we know it.
It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.
 
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