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(Some Guy)   AP reports story about Shiite massacre that might not have happened. Military asks AP to prove or retract the story; AP tells military to STFU. That'll help   (opinionjournal.com) divider line
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7304 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Nov 2006 at 1:15 PM (16 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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Scooby's'pawn
2006-11-30 1:00:02 PM  
What a bunch of crap. The source that the AP quotes for the article is a "Police Captain" in Baghdad that nobody can seem to find. The AP, however, uses him as a source for dozens of the most grisly things to come out of Iraq. Most of which are impossible to confirm by any other credible source. Now they get all huffy when the government asks them to investigate further?

Add to that the little "quiz" at the bottom of the article that tries to make Mahmoud Ahmadinejad out to be some kind of free thinker and tries to put him on par with a lot of well-respected people here in the US. The article's author is a dumbass.

The media in this country is an extremely powerful weapon. Farkheads like this moron are willfully allowing our enemies to wield it as a propaganda machine against us.

I wouldn't have any problem with it if the majority of the media would just farking be journalists instead of printing whatever unsubstantiated crap they think will sell another paper or get one more viewer.
 
Tenebreux [TotalFark]
2006-11-30 1:17:56 PM  
Sorry. As things are at the moment, I believe AP over the US Military.
Wish it wasn't so, but thats how it is right now.
 
Complex_Green
2006-11-30 1:19:35 PM  
AP = Always Phoney
 
Magic Chopstick
2006-11-30 1:20:01 PM  
...but hey, we got rid of Saddam!

/ Barack Hussein Obama, you're next!
// schlock and aww
 
Dihnekis
2006-11-30 1:20:01 PM  
Tenebreux: Sorry. As things are at the moment, I believe AP over the US Military.
Wish it wasn't so, but thats how it is right now.

My sentiments exactly.
 
blahpers
2006-11-30 1:20:49 PM  
The Associated Press is standing by its report that six Sunni men were burned to death in Baghdad Friday by shiites, even though U.S. military officials have accused the wire service of relying on a source who "is not who he claimed he was," an Iraqi police captain.

B-b-but Chalabi!
 
DatYellowGuy
2006-11-30 1:21:24 PM  
That's because you idiots think war is a game of dodgeball.
 
Natefil
2006-11-30 1:21:26 PM  
Several bloggers are challenging this too, like that has any credence. Personally, I would tend to believe that the source is not reliable and that is simply because I don't want to start off considering someone guilty of murder.
 
Complex_Green
2006-11-30 1:22:08 PM  
AP = Arab Propaganda
 
I_C_Weener [TotalFark]
2006-11-30 1:22:12 PM  
Wait, were any photos faked? No, then its real...or its not. Isn't there some three independent source rule?

Oh, well, all news is spin...except what isn't. Or maybe that is just what they want you to think.
 
dognose4
2006-11-30 1:22:25 PM  
That's pretty farked up if AP is just a publishing propaganda from the terrorists.
 
plutonium238
2006-11-30 1:22:31 PM  
Yep, nevermind the fact that Iraq is entering the final threshold of full blown civil war and your fellow countrymen are stuck in the middle. We better go ahead and focus on STREET CRED.
\Anyone catch the news conference last night? OMFG!
\\It really is that bad.
 
BlindMan
2006-11-30 1:23:27 PM  
Evident schmevidence I always say, what do you think we are, a news agency?
 
Spagoo
2006-11-30 1:23:42 PM  
So much for journalistic integrity.
 
TheOther
2006-11-30 1:24:11 PM  
Cough up the gotdamn WMD's, government shill, and I'll take your pronouncements about credibility as being...credible.
 
therecksays
2006-11-30 1:24:52 PM  
The military would never make up any stories like say about a former football player not being killed in a friendly fire incident or some blonde chick they make out to be Rambo that turns out to have been in a traffic accident.
 
blahpers
2006-11-30 1:25:31 PM  
Scooby's'pawn: The media in this country is an extremely powerful weapon. Farkheads like this moron are willfully allowing our enemies to wield it as a propaganda machine against us.

Indeed! It's a national media conspiracy to aid America's enemies! After all, they have so much to gain by helping Middle Eastern radicals convert the U.S. into a theocracy! They'll be . . . er, shut down and probably murdered as heretics. It's a win-win!

Seriously, don't toss around words like "willfully" unless you're ready to back it up. Do you actually believe the mass media is a giant suicide pact?
 
MEGAMERICAN
2006-11-30 1:25:51 PM  
[image from img357.imageshack.us too old to be available]

AP's source?
 
bmasso
2006-11-30 1:25:59 PM  
Muslims are willing to riot and murder over farking cartoons, some of which never existed until a "Iman" made them up.

What does the AP expect the result to be if they publish atrocity reports of atrocities that didn't happen?

Either they don't care, or.......?
 
SocietalPylon76
2006-11-30 1:26:26 PM  
correct me if i'm wrong (drunk at lunch)

but isn't the associated press owned by the jews?

just a question...keep your flamethrowers to yourself
 
newsisgoodfood
2006-11-30 1:26:53 PM  
Complex_Green: AP = Arab Propaganda

AP = Always Phoney

Flip-flopper.
 
Bloginspanken
2006-11-30 1:27:00 PM  
AP printing a fake story? Couldn't happen.
 
Magorn [TotalFark]
2006-11-30 1:27:23 PM  
I seem to recall during Vietnam, the Military would give supposedly authoritative daily briefings about the progress made that day. Early on the reporters mostly just dutifully wrote down what was said and filed it as a story. However when some intrepid actual reporters started venturing out into the field, a whole 'nother picture of the war emerged and the daily briefings became known as the as "the Five O'clock Follies" and universally distrusted by reporters.

Though you'd think they'd be better at it than most, the military seems to have the damndest time learning from their own history.
 
hershmire
2006-11-30 1:28:12 PM  
The problem with corporate media...
 
LocalCynic
2006-11-30 1:29:01 PM  
bmasso: What does the AP expect the result to be if they publish atrocity reports of atrocities that didn't happen?

No one has died in Iraq! There are no civilian deaths! We're winning in Iraq!

Seriously, STFU. This is what I love about conservatives. You'll latch onto this one story (which is probably true) and say "SEE! THEY LIED ABOUT ONE THING! ALL IS WELL IN IRAQ!"

I tell you what. If it's so safe over there, pack your bags and get going. The American media has been whitewashing the war. People need to see what's actually going on over there.
 
Complex_Green
2006-11-30 1:29:47 PM  
newsisgoodfood

Both are consistent.
 
I_C_Weener [TotalFark]
2006-11-30 1:30:16 PM  
ClamHammer: Isn't it the presses job as the '4th pillar of US democracy' to tell the military to STFU?


I, the media, have determined that ClamHammer murderd between 5 and 55 people in their sleep with a fork. My source is a gay black man from Anchorage, Alaska who says so. But no, you can't have his name, and you can STFU.
 
hershmire
2006-11-30 1:30:41 PM  
plutonium238, I guess I'll show my ignorance. What press conference?
 
MickCollins
2006-11-30 1:32:08 PM  
// The American media has been whitewashing the war. //

Apparently, they have. The Police Captain who was made up as a source has been quoted in dozens of stories. See, this is called Propaganda. The AP has shown themselves to be the Fox News of the Insurgency but promoting this gobshiate and not even investigating it. This is what happens when you trust stringer reporters.
 
xria
2006-11-30 1:32:27 PM  
I always thought proving a negative was a fairly difficult thing to do, its impressive how easily the army can be certain such an event didn't happen, and how impossible it must be for news reporters to have got credible reports for such an event, because nothing like it has ever happened before (except for averaging over 100 deaths a day in the Baghdad area alone nowadays).
 
BootToDaHead
2006-11-30 1:33:17 PM  
If there is a doubt to the story is in question, what is the harm in the AP re-investigating a little deeper to corroborate its report?

Nothing.
 
theodicey
2006-11-30 1:33:24 PM  
Here's what the AP actually did: they followed up and did more reporting.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2006/11/29/publiceye/entry2214922.shtml

The Wall Street Journal/Opinion Journal are less trustworthy than the military public affairs flacks.

And, to borrow Steve Gilliard's phrase, "CENTCOM lies like a junkie." Pat Tillman, body armor, military suicides, and oh yeah, whatshername the woman soldier "rescued" from the Iraqi hospital.
 
Epic Fail Guy
2006-11-30 1:35:21 PM  
Magorn
Though you'd think they'd be better at it than most, the military seems to have the damndest time learning from their own history.

While your point is good, it is not unreasonable to suspect that the shoe can sometimes be on the other foot. I hope someone links up the full text of the two letters mentioned in that post, because the tone of the excerpted bits was certainly worth the comment given. I'm curious as to whether it's selective quoting, or whether the AP is looking down on a reasonable request from a very high horse.


As for the people professing their belief in one side or the other - I dare say that might be part of the problem. Belief implies faith and faith requires no logic. You can't argue a faith issue. :)
 
Bugs_Bunny_Practiced_Psychological_Warfare
2006-11-30 1:36:14 PM  
So the Wall Street Journal complains about the lack of facts in an editorial and doesn't even bother with providing any links in it to prove that the people it quoted actually said what they did. Well that does it. I'm totally convinced!!!
 
Codyl
2006-11-30 1:36:21 PM  
Scooby's'pawn: "What a bunch of crap....
----------

You're post (nice that it happens to be the first one) was about perfect :) No need for me to post what I was going to say.
 
LocalCynic
2006-11-30 1:36:22 PM  
MickCollins: Apparently, they have. The Police Captain who was made up as a source has been quoted in dozens of stories. See, this is called Propaganda. The AP has shown themselves to be the Fox News of the Insurgency but promoting this gobshiate and not even investigating it. This is what happens when you trust stringer reporters.

There you go, catapulting the propaganda, just like you people did with the so-called "Rathergate" non-scandal. The conservative agenda is to destroy the media, because it's against your interest to have a free and open press that doesn't suck the White House twig and berries. You'd love to see nothing else for the American public to hate our media and be uninformed and stupid, because that would allow the Bushies to ramrod their agenda through without any public scrutiny.
 
Ditto
2006-11-30 1:37:03 PM  
What I've noticed is that "the media" is quick to push ANYTHING that will get the left into an uproar.

Look at Fark. Some dumbfark parent from BFE submits a proposal to allow a Bible class in a public school and, thanks to a little sensationalizing journalism, it prompts a 1000 comment flamewar on Fark before the school board even has a chance to read it.
 
WhiskeyBoy
2006-11-30 1:39:24 PM  
Bah. It's all over sensationalized crap. Everything we are fed from the media is. If you haven't figured this out already you are vapid and shallow.
AP:


Earlier that day, rampaging militiamen burned and blew up four mosques and torched several homes in the capital's mostly Shia neighborhood of Hurriyah, police said. Iraqi soldiers at a nearby army post failed to intervene in the assault by suspected members of the shiite Mahdi Army militia or subsequent attacks that killed a total of 25 Sunnis, including women and children, said police Capt. Jamil Hussein.

The Washinton Post then jumps on board with new news (despite not having ANY embeded reporters, while AP has ONE).

In the mixed Hurriyah neighborhood, shiite militiamen torched at least five Sunni mosques on Islam's holiest prayer day, police and residents reported. Other mosques were attacked by gunmen spraying bullets from the rooftops of nearby houses, witnesses said.

Witnesses huh? Strange how you got testimony from any of them with no embeded reporters, unless you are relying on the AP reporter (who may not have even been there at the time, it's unknown) who had different information.

Well, so here's an idea, lets look at the CENTCOM report for the days activities in that area, and see what the units on patrol relayed back in their SITREP.

The U.S. military said Saturday that Iraqi soldiers securing the Hurriyah area had found only one burned mosque and could not confirm reports that six Sunni civilians had been burned to death with kerosene.


Well, never mind all that. We all know the CENTCOM report comes from the military, and is nothing but government propoganda.

I hate this war not because of the legal implications of starting it and its current quagmire status, I hate it because it has divided a great nation by ruining the throughput and dissemination of factual information.

Sources:
==============
CENTCOM report
Washington Post
 
xria
2006-11-30 1:46:31 PM  
Ditto

What I've noticed is that "the media" is quick to push ANYTHING that will get the left into an uproar.

That worked well except you need to substitute 'left' for 'people', because they are just as happy to push any hot button issue - for example some minor schmuck of no account suggests removing "Under God" from the pledge, and they haven't run a story like that in the last few weeks, so they push it to rile up one part of the readership/viewers.

And if you notice, its not like Fark (or posters on it) is any different. More controversy = more readers = more advertising revenues.

Stories about cute kittens being saved, or old ladies being helped across a road don't sell newspapers or websites (although they may be useful in small numbers to balance out the overwhelming negativity and exaggeration that tends to populate every other story).
 
WhiskeyBoy
2006-11-30 1:47:07 PM  
It should also be added:
From CPATT PAO:

BG Abdul-Kareem, the Ministry of Interior Spokesman, went on the record today stating that Capt. Jamil Hussein is not a police officer. He explained the coordinations among MOI, the Ministry of Health and the Ministry of Defense in attempting to track down these bodies and their joint conclusion was that this was unsubstantiated rumor.

He went on to name several other false sources that have been used recently and appealed to the media to document their news before reporting. He went into some detail about the impact of the press carrying propaganda for the enemies of Iraq and thanked "the friends" who have brought this to their attention.

AP did attend the press conference.
 
acronym
2006-11-30 1:49:44 PM  
next you'll be telling me that Rueters isn't a credible news source!
 
Batewoman
2006-11-30 1:50:11 PM  
The AP may have been right or wrong. The source may have been who he said he was or not, telling the truth or not, reliable or not.

What scares me is that the government/military thinks they have the right to hassle the FREE PRESS about what they print. It's not the government's right to do that, it's the general public. If the bloggers or readers or whatever write up their opinions on an article, that's one thing, but the military throwing out claims to discredit the press is crossing a line somewhere, imho.

Scary.
 
Mr.Insightful
2006-11-30 1:50:26 PM  
I hate this war not because of the legal implications of starting it and its current quagmire status, I hate it because it has divided a great nation by ruining the throughput and dissemination of factual information.

In War, the first casualty is Truth.

Seriously man, do you expect reporters to go out into a free-fire zone, in which Americans are specifically targeted, to count just how many mosques were torched that day? And, given that the two reports are only off by one, they could both have been true at the time they were filed; if today a sixth, seventh, and eigth are torched, that doesn't invalidate the facts on the ground -- which is that we've completely lost control of the situation.

All I want to know is when the word "conservative" stopped being something good, and became synonymous with "self-deluded fool who whines about bias when he gets news he doesn't want to hear".
 
DROxINxTHExWIND
2006-11-30 1:51:23 PM  
2006-11-30 01:30:16 PM I_C_Weener


ClamHammer: Isn't it the presses job as the '4th pillar of US democracy' to tell the military to STFU?


I, the media, have determined that ClamHammer murderd between 5 and 55 people in their sleep with a fork. My source is a gay black man from Anchorage, Alaska who says so. But no, you can't have his name, and you can STFU.
==========================================================

Well Mr. Media, if you had a history of being trusted as a source of information, then we might find probable cause to have Clamhammer investigated.
It's ridiculous how you all will trust the AP's estimated number of dead in the tsunami disaster or you'll believe a story about a 90 year old war veteran fighting off 5 muggers, but when it's something that you don't want to hear they're suddenly not a reputible source. The Associated Press are the same folks who claimed in their caption of Black Katrina evacuees that they were 'looting' while pictures of White people said they had 'found' goods. So, if they were going to write biased articles, I would not expect them to be biased towards Muslims.
Moreover, when did Americans become so pro-Big Brother? Now, the media has to 'show-and-prove' everytime someone tries to call them out on a source? The person could be in a dangerous position...this being a war and all. Iraqi policemen are getting killed like ants at a picnic and the AP is supposed to throw a high ranking policeman's name out there as an informant? GTFO.
 
DROxINxTHExWIND
2006-11-30 1:55:21 PM  
200 people were murdered in a single incident the other day. Was that made up, too? Over half a million Iraqis have died in 3 years. Why is this so improbable?
 
VTSquire
2006-11-30 1:56:13 PM  
rule #1 of journalism... one unverified source does not a story make.
rule #2 If you break rule #1, dont use the same source a bunch of times.
rule #3 If you break rules 1 and 2, biatch whenever anybody questions your outlet's reliability.
 
xria
2006-11-30 1:56:44 PM  
DROxINxTHExWIND

The Associated Press are the same folks who claimed in their caption of Black Katrina evacuees that they were 'looting' while pictures of White people said they had 'found' goods.

AP (Associated Press) isn't the same as AFP (Agence France-Presse). Those two images and captions were done by different reporters/photographers for two different news agencies, so even aside from the possibility their might have been differences in the background behind the shots allowing the reporters to make different assumptions, it could also be the case that both were just the normal reporting style of that agency.
 
Marmilman
2006-11-30 2:02:21 PM  
Mr. Insightful
"...do you expect reporters to go out into a free-fire zone, in which Americans are specifically targeted, to count just how many mosques were torched that day?"


Yes, I do. It's their job. Reporters earn their reputation and fame by "risking their lives" for that gem of a story. If they don't want to do what it takes to uncover the truth, then don't report on it, and for damn sure don't speculate.
 
kindpastor
2006-11-30 2:04:09 PM  
"Attacking the AP=Attacking Free speech!"

Have we heard this argument yet?

How about:

"Supporting the Military=Supporting fascism?"

No? I don't have time to read all the posts.
 
WhiskeyBoy
2006-11-30 2:05:14 PM  
Iraqi policemen are getting killed like ants at a picnic and the AP is supposed to throw a high ranking policeman's name out there as an informant? GTFO.

This statement would make perfect sense if the police captain in question wasn't lying through his teeth.
 
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