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(Some Guy)   DailyKos solicits donations to challenge an election in Florida "so we can kiss Diebold goodbye." Later admits a Diebold competitor supplied the voting machines, but wants the donations anyway   (dailykos.com) divider line
    More: Dumbass  
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290 clicks; posted to Politics » on 16 Nov 2006 at 7:16 PM (16 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



50 Comments     (+0 »)
 
2006-11-16 5:44:28 PM  
submitter is a douche.

Referring to "Diebold" when it comes to crappy voting machine technology is like referring to "Kleenex" when referring to tissue paper or "Xerox" when referring to copy machines.

Diebold must be so proud that their machines suck so much that they've come to represent *all* shiatty voting machines. Bravo, guys.
 
2006-11-16 5:49:32 PM  
BlueDjinn: Referring to "Diebold" when it comes to crappy voting machine technology is like referring to "Kleenex" when referring to tissue paper or "Xerox" when referring to copy machines.


Today anyway...
 
2006-11-16 6:01:43 PM  
BlueDjinn: Referring to "Diebold" when it comes to crappy voting machine technology is like referring to "Kleenex" when referring to tissue paper or "Xerox" when referring to copy machines.


[image from photospin.com too old to be available]
 
2006-11-16 6:04:23 PM  
Today anyway...

That's right, we're Americans gosh darnit, and we change things whenever we feel like to best support our arguments that are either hollow or can't be justified any other way.

It's as American as Cheez Whiz.
 
2006-11-16 6:05:11 PM  
Hey, people make mistakes, Left and Right.

This was a stupid one, but if you support their cause you still want to help them do it better.

Bad voting machines are a serious problem. Just because this one case wasn't the biggest offender doesn't meant there isn't still some good to be done.

/Oh, crap, I forgot: I'm on Fark.
//So, instead of the above, read: OMG STOOPIDZ, LOL. Libtards can't even stop crying when they win!11!!!1
 
2006-11-16 6:09:52 PM  
Let me hold your hand through this complicated issue, submittard:

Voting machines, as they are now, are bad. The manufacturer is irrelevant.

I can't put it any simpler, subby.
 
2006-11-16 6:15:37 PM  
Hypocrisy from Kos? Unpossible!

\get rid of these machines
 
2006-11-16 6:20:31 PM  
Lionel Mandrake: The manufacturer is irrelevant.


Today anyway.
 
2006-11-16 6:25:06 PM  
the electronic Diebold voting machines that ate 18,000 votes for Democrat Christine Jennings in FL-13 and cost her the election.

tricky republicans only stole a few races
rove you evil genius
 
2006-11-16 6:30:58 PM  
Dancin_In_Anson: Today anyway.

Always. Speaking for myself, that is. I don't give a fark what Kos says.

These machines are the future, I suppose, but there is no (good) reason to rush into it.
 
2006-11-16 6:41:52 PM  
Lionel Mandrake: These machines are the future, I suppose, but there is no (good) reason to rush into it.


Other than the fact that we had an entire branch of government seized up because of punchcards.

Yeah, no reason.

(Missouri, my current state of residence votes on BOTH optical scanner and Diebold machines, voters choice.)
 
2006-11-16 7:08:44 PM  
The voting machine I used this last election in my Brooklyn precint appeared to have been constructed from the burnt-out shell of a Toyota Prius.
 
2006-11-16 7:15:55 PM  
Kos is a circle jerk for the mentally disabled.
 
2006-11-16 7:22:15 PM  
Is it too much to ask that these machines enable a readable printout for backup? The ones I used for this past elections had this, so what's the problem with the rest of the country?
 
2006-11-16 7:36:58 PM  
FriarTuck: Other than the fact that we had an entire branch of government seized up because of punchcards.

Well, then, by all means, let's rush into another flawed technology...
 
2006-11-16 7:44:47 PM  
Say what you will about Kos- pro or con- he is one creepy motherpharker in person.
 
2006-11-16 7:45:06 PM  
Fart_Machine
Then we can punish people for not voting like they should!
 
2006-11-16 8:02:33 PM  
Lionel Mandrake: Well, then, by all means, let's rush into another flawed technology

I voted on a diebold machine with a paper printout tape. The other option was to vote on optical scan.

Please explain how these options produce any more 'flaws' than your alternative.

You do have an alternative, RIGHT?

/I have had answers on scantron incorrectly graded, I chose diebold.
 
2006-11-16 8:03:28 PM  
bicentennialman --
I don't think he's talking about receipts that the voter can take with him. Instead, the voting machine is used to print a paper ballot. The paper ballot is presented to the user for confirmation; he can confirm it or cancel it. The paper ballot is then retained, and serves as an official record of a vote without indicating who's vote it actually was.


If one can ensure a 1:1 correspondence between paper ballots that are kept, and votes that are counted, it's reasonable. In other words, one needs to be sure that extra ballots do not get entered, nor are any improperly removed, and that the voter can verify the entire ballot properly before officially confirming it. If what's happening is that the voter physically takes the ballot and drops it into a box for later scanning, then this boils down to ensuring integrity of that box and a proper chain of custody -- a less complicated problem than ensuring integrity of the software of a computer.

 
2006-11-16 8:11:07 PM  
Down in Florida, an epic battle is brewing over the electronic Diebold voting machines that ate 18,000 votes for Democrat Christine Jennings in FL-13 and cost her the election.

It's partisan and ignorant comments like this that get the uniformed whipped up into a frenzy, not that I would expect any accuracy from the DailyKos. There were 18,000 ballots where no vote was cast for either Buchanan or Jennings, these are called undervotes. No one knows if they abstentions or lost for EITHER candidate.

//Lives in Sarasota County and voted on one of those very machines.
 
2006-11-16 8:20:28 PM  
Korovyov
I don't think he's talking about receipts that the voter can take with him. Instead, the voting machine is used to print a paper ballot. The paper ballot is presented to the user for confirmation; he can confirm it or cancel it. The paper ballot is then retained, and serves as an official record of a vote without indicating who's vote it actually was.



Yup, that's exactly it.
 
2006-11-16 8:20:52 PM  
StrikitRich: Down in Florida, an epic battle is brewing over the electronic Diebold voting machines that ate 18,000 votes for Democrat Christine Jennings in FL-13 and cost her the election.

It's partisan and ignorant comments like this that get the uniformed whipped up into a frenzy, not that I would expect any accuracy from the DailyKos. There were 18,000 ballots where no vote was cast for either Buchanan or Jennings, these are called undervotes. No one knows if they abstentions or lost for EITHER candidate.

//Lives in Sarasota County and voted on one of those very machines.


Sorry, this is Fark. We're not interested in the truth.

/obligatory?
//ridiculous?
///excuse for slashies?
 
2006-11-16 8:31:50 PM  
HEY ASSHATS, THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE ONES WHO WANTED ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINES, REMEMBER FLORIDA 2000, CHADS. THEY SCREAMED AND YELLED FOR ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINES

then...

DEMOCRATS SAID: EVIL REPUBLICANS STOLE 2004 ELECTION WITH ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINES

then last week...

DEMOCRATS WIN WITH THE SAME BROKEN, EVIL VOTING MACHINES THAT WERE USED IN 2004


LOUD NOISES!!!
 
2006-11-16 8:34:24 PM  
FriarTuck: You do have an alternative, RIGHT?

Paper ballots...heard of 'em?

I'm no conspiracy theorist - I don't claim "Diebold is teh evil...in our democracy, countin' up non-votes for repulicanz!!"

But "dry runs" with these systems have produced results that are less than satisfactory, IMO. You may disagree, but there is plenty of evidence that these machines have a far higher margin of error than plain ol' "check the box by the thing you want" paper ballots (and we have them right here to recount, if necessary!"). If you disagree, well, OK...I'm not going to do your homework for you, but it's clear that these systems aren't reliable enough to accept...yet.
 
2006-11-16 8:38:02 PM  
Gahbrone

Your bold use of majuscule has convinced me
 
2006-11-16 8:38:06 PM  
If you think that any spatter that hits the real maker of this will leave Diebold squeeky clean... it's time to pass the bong over to the next guy, dude.
 
2006-11-16 8:46:47 PM  
Lionel Mandrake

I knew it would work!
 
2006-11-16 9:10:06 PM  
Lionel Mandrake: Paper ballots...heard of 'em?

You actually think that the error rate for counting paper ballots would be less than that of an electronic machine?

.I'm not going to do your homework for you,

AKA: I have no proof to back up my assertions, only a bunch of crazy conspiracy websites.

But "dry runs" with these systems have produced results that are less than satisfactory, IMO.

Care to elablorate, or just insinuate? If you can tell me how the machine I voted on last week (Diebold with a paper prinout) is bad for America then I'll support your side.
 
2006-11-16 9:25:25 PM  
This reminds me of when in my American Gov. class we were doing a project and my teacher recommended dailykos as a source, I laughed...
 
2006-11-16 9:26:08 PM  
So you know, the OTHER company that makes voting machines in this country, is owned by the brother of the guy who owns Diebold. Shocking.
 
2006-11-16 9:29:02 PM  
Gahbrone

Why are voting machines, which are hackable without a trace, a partisan issue?
 
2006-11-16 9:43:37 PM  
FriarTuck: You actually think that the error rate for counting paper ballots would be less than that of an electronic machine?

Yes...I know it

Again...do your own homework

May I suggest google.com as a start?
 
2006-11-16 9:45:04 PM  
Because they overwhelmingly favor one side due to who owns the companies that make them, sacrileg.
 
2006-11-16 10:47:21 PM  
2006-11-16 08:31:50 PMGahbrone

HEY ASSHATS, THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE ONES WHO WANTED ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINES,


Keep repeating that. Maybe it'll come true.
 
2006-11-16 11:44:33 PM  
Diebold is a symbol for corrupt and shaky election machines, stupid submission.

Agreed this SHOULD NOT be a partisian issue, but ever since the Dems brought it up first, the GOP has to robotically oppose everything the Dems stand for ( like fair elections ).
 
2006-11-17 1:00:26 AM  
@johnnyrocket

Clearly you've never been to Chicago.
 
2006-11-17 1:27:34 AM  
Gahbrone: HEY ASSHATS, THE DEMOCRATS ARE THE ONES WHO WANTED ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINES,

Sure... but not machines that can be tampered with without a trace. And not supplied by people who have vowed to lay the votes of particular states before a candidate's feet (the CEO of Diebold said that about W).

Look. The democrats won. The voting machines are still screwed to hell and back. I'd want them overhauled regardless of who won.
 
2006-11-17 2:14:07 AM  
Lionel Mandrake: Your bold use of majuscule has convinced me

Made me laugh... er I mean lol.

I occasionally peruse Daily Kos just to see what the ultra-left is whining about and I really can't get through more than a couple of paragraphs. I find it as intolerable as Fox News. Huffington Post is only slightly better. These people have no sense of proportion or history. Everything is a conspiracy by evil corporations and Republicans. Thankfully they continue to marginalize themselves with their vitriolic rhetoric.

/life long independent
 
2006-11-17 2:17:14 AM  

Well, then, by all means, let's rush into another flawed technology...


There's nothing wrong with the technology. When you go to the bank, does it ever withdraw when it's supposed to deposit? Is your balance "accurate within 20%"? Does it ever give money to the guy next to you?

For most people, electronics is still a kind of magic, because they're not quite aware of how it all works, especially older folks. So a "bug" or a "glitch" is a mysterious but somehow expected problem. But it's RIDICULOUS that so many machines all manage to somehow have hardware or software problems, all at once, undetected prior to shipping or during subsequent tests. Giving your vote to someone else? What?

Either the machines are built INCREDIBLY poorly, which is VERY probable, or the people at the stations fark them up, which really just points to poor manufacturing if they're so hard to set up, OR something sinister is going on. Take your pick. But I'm having trouble presuming that computer/electrical engineers designing the entire electronic voting process, the same ilk who make our entire civilization work, are so completely incompetent.

Though it seems that people who failed everywhere else might just end up at Diebold. God knows that's not my first choice of employment.

...Diebold makes stuff for banks too, though. Not a peep.
 
2006-11-17 7:12:18 AM  
The_Flatline: Sure... but not machines that can be tampered with without a trace. And not supplied by people who have vowed to lay the votes of particular states before a candidate's feet (the CEO of Diebold said that about W).

Technically, he just said he would deliver the votes to the President. He never specifies W. (And that's stupid, anyway, cause the votes go to Congress :)
 
2006-11-17 8:12:01 AM  
Its gonna be a fun couple years.
 
2006-11-17 9:05:07 AM  
StrikitRich: It's partisan and ignorant comments like this that get the uniformed whipped up into a frenzy, not that I would expect any accuracy from the DailyKos. There were 18,000 ballots where no vote was cast for either Buchanan or Jennings, these are called undervotes. No one knows if they abstentions or lost for EITHER candidate.

Exactly right. The only thing you missed is that Kathy Dent is a coont. I tried to warn her months ago about all this.

Gahbrone: DEMOCRATS SAID: EVIL REPUBLICANS STOLE 2004 ELECTION WITH ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINES

Well, Democrats and Independants. And their arguments haven't exactly been answered or countered. Just dismissed.
 
2006-11-17 9:33:56 AM  
I voted on a diebold machine with a paper printout tape. The other option was to vote on optical scan.

Horray for you.. You do understand that you are the exception. The vast majority of diebold machines have no printout or paper trail of any kind. Lucikly many places still allow the option of a paper ballot, but many places still don't.
How would you feel if your district had offered you a touch screen with no printout and no other option?
 
2006-11-17 9:59:09 AM  
foster404 [TotalFark]
tricky republicans only stole a few races
rove you evil genius


Actually Rove threw the election because Kos and his Super Sleuth kids were hot on his trail and he needed to throw them off.
 
2006-11-17 10:04:49 AM  
wow, all of the standard wing nuts are finally starting to show themselves again.

/missed you guys there for a while. Where were you when Bush lied about keeping rumsfeld until the end of his term? If that dumbass would have thrown rummy under the bus before the election instead of after, you guys might not have had to hide for the last week or so.
//anyways welcome back guys. we missed you!
 
2006-11-17 10:12:55 AM  
rocker5969 [TotalFark]
wow, all of the standard wing nuts are finally starting to show themselves again.
/missed you guys there for a while. Where were you when Bush lied about keeping rumsfeld until the end of his term? If that dumbass would have thrown rummy under the bus before the election instead of after, you guys might not have had to hide for the last week or so.


But but but but Bush.

//anyways welcome back guys. we missed you!

Check the threads I never left
 
2006-11-17 10:13:16 AM  
The only thing you missed is that Kathy Dent is a coont

this is so true. I seriously hope someone has followed the money trail, because she defended these machines to the hilt, even after they had the same problems in early voting that they had in the regualr voting. Even after the problems arose, she tried to say that it wan't the machines, but the dumbass voters. Even if it's true, you don't come out and say that. especially if you are a republican running the voting systems for a republican county.

The best thing they could do is revote, but I doubt if it will happen, and I don't think I could take another period of campaigning from these two scumbags.
 
2006-11-17 10:41:54 AM  
Lionel Mandrake: Paper ballots...heard of 'em?

I'm no conspiracy theorist - I don't claim "Diebold is teh evil...in our democracy, countin' up non-votes for repulicanz!!"

But "dry runs" with these systems have produced results that are less than satisfactory, IMO. You may disagree, but there is plenty of evidence that these machines have a far higher margin of error than plain ol' "check the box by the thing you want" paper ballots (and we have them right here to recount, if necessary!"). If you disagree, well, OK...I'm not going to do your homework for you, but it's clear that these systems aren't reliable enough to accept...yet.



You're kidding right. I mean, you just can't be that utterly stupid can you? As in, you don't think election works have miscounted paper ballots before? How many times have you tried to count a wad of money and had to start over because you messed up. Now imagine your average volunteer election worker. You think its MORE accurate than electronic?

And I say you think because you refer to "evidence" but you don't bother to actually give us specifics.
 
2006-11-17 3:42:11 PM  
Devin172: Funny thing is historically paper ballots have a statistically randomized miscount. As statistics go if your counting thousands of millions of votes random deviations should end with the counted vote very close to the real vote. Machines don't make these types of mistakes, you have situations where touch screens aren't calibrated properly so its harder to vote for a certain individual, or computers in one area having more problems that computers in another area, leading to certain demographics not being able to vote. etc.
 
2006-11-17 8:38:00 PM  
Down in Florida, an epic battle is brewing over the electronic Diebold voting machines that ate 18,000 votes for Democrat Christine Jennings in FL-13 and cost her the election.

As has been noted, these were undervotes. It does look almost impossible that they do not reflect unrecorded actual votes as this was over 13% of the votes cast, which is an unheard-of rate for not voting for a national office (other rates in the area ranged from 2-5%).
The problem here is that the race was decided by around 400 votes. This triggers an automatic recount, but there is simply no way of having any confidence that the recount is correct.
 
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