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(Daily Mail)   Great moments in socialized medicine: British guy has been fixing a loose crown with Superglue every two months for the last three years while he waits to see a dentist   (dailymail.co.uk) divider line
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6755 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 15 Nov 2006 at 6:53 PM (16 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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Chariset [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2006-11-15 3:58:16 PM  
Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow. Ow..
 
Dancin_In_Anson
2006-11-15 4:01:58 PM  
Coming soon to a Dr.'s office in your state.
 
biffman
2006-11-15 4:04:53 PM  
British and dentist in the same sentence.
Funny.
 
Bill_Wick's_Friend
2006-11-15 4:05:57 PM  
Great moments in socialized medicine:

Uh...except that the article states this isn't covered by the National Health, which is why it's taken so long to find a dentist who WILL do the procedure for free.

Dentistry isn't covered by socialized healthcare up here either.
 
jay_vee
2006-11-15 4:06:22 PM  
I see submitter doesn't realise that the UK dental system has been privatised, which is why there are so few NHS dentists left.

There's no universal right to NHS dental healthcare any more.
 
mediaho
2006-11-15 4:10:52 PM  
Bill_Wick's_Friend: isn't covered by the National Health

jay_vee: UK dental system has been privatised

I don't think submitter thought his cunning propaganda all the way through.
 
patrick767
2006-11-15 4:12:28 PM  
Now RTFA. UK dentists can take both private and NHS patients. Apparently the NHS isn't paying enough because most of the dentists are only taking private patients. So it seems the NHS needs to look at how much they're paying providers. This guy could still get his tooth fixed if he would/could pay for it himself, or presumably with private insurance, if he had it, as most of us here in the US do.

National health care here in the US wouldn't have to encompass everyone in the country. It needs to be targeted at those who need it and be along the lines of an HMO quality system. If you want better coverage, you can get private insurance yourself or through your company.

The current problem is that we have Medicaid, but it's failing to cover tens of millions of people who need help with the spiralling costs of health care.
 
Jenthelibrarian
2006-11-15 4:14:01 PM  
Most NHS dentists will continue to provide NHS dental services after 1st April 2006, but a small number of dentists have chosen to either change the amount of NHS dentistry they provide or to stop providing NHS dental services.
You do not have to sign up for private dental services if you do not want to. If you need to find an NHS dentist you should contact your Primary Care Trust (PCT) who will let you know what NHS dentists are available in your area.
PCT contact details can be found in your local phone book or by visiting NHS England.
 
patrick767
2006-11-15 4:14:27 PM  
This guy could still get his tooth fixed if he would/could pay for it himself, or presumably with private insurance, if he had it, as most of us here in the US do.

Meh... this sentence isn't clear. It should say that the guy could get his tooth fixed by paying himself or having an insurance company pay. Most of us already do one or the other if we can afford it.
 
thenateman
2006-11-15 4:19:55 PM  
patrick767

National health care here in the US wouldn't have to encompass everyone in the country. It needs to be targeted at those who need it and be along the lines of an HMO quality system. If you want better coverage, you can get private insurance yourself or through your company.

Separate but equal? Rich people's hospitals & poor people's hospitals? I see where you're going here.
 
The_Right_Reverened_Daddio
2006-11-15 4:22:12 PM  
thenateman: Separate but equal? Rich people's hospitals & poor people's hospitals? I see where you're going here.

We have that already. There's a marked difference between Detroit Receiving Hospital and Beaumont in Royal Oak or Bon Secours in Grosse Pointe. Don't think there's not already a strong class system in place here in America.
 
skinnycatullus [recently expired TotalFark]
2006-11-15 4:24:05 PM  
Even if this were caused by "socialized medicine", I guarantee you could find many more such "great moments" caused by private medicine. But I guess those are ok, because people who suffer because they can't afford treatment should have just worked a little harder, right?
 
ratboy
2006-11-15 4:33:05 PM  
Submitter: Your a idiot.

Toyota and Honda both seem to like doing their North American assembly in Communist Ontario. Healthcare costs figure large into their expansion here.
 
themnemosyne
2006-11-15 4:35:30 PM  
I really don't see how that's any different from an uninsured person who can't afford dental treatment here in the US.
 
untrustworthy
2006-11-15 4:38:31 PM  
skinnycatullus: But I guess those are ok, because people who suffer because they can't afford treatment should have just worked a little harder, right?

I can't have any car I want unless I'm able to make the money to have my choice. Why do people feel entitled to shiat they haven't earned?
 
FarkinNortherner
2006-11-15 4:39:51 PM  
He's a farking idiot. He isn't, as asserted in TFA, having trouble finding an NHS dentist. He's had trouble saving up £100. 64p a week over the time he's been doing his DIY.

Once you find, and register, with an NHS dentist, by his own admission not actually a problem in his area - although it is in many - you have an good chance of remaining with them, since they've obviously been able to survive our stupid governments' stupid stupidity so far. For the sake of £100, he could have all his ongoing treatment done for a maximum of £189 per treatment, compared to, potentially, thousands for the same work privately, and his examinations done for £15.50, rather than upwards of £40 a time.

patrick767: Apparently the NHS isn't paying enough because most of the dentists are only taking private patients. So it seems the NHS needs to look at how much they're paying providers.

It isn't as simple as that. Thanks to the aforementioned stupid stupidity a point has been reached where it's very hard to be both a private dentist and an NHS dentist. Some dentists (mine, for one) wanted to operate in both sectors and have, effectively, had their hands forced by not being able to play by the over-complicated funding rules.

*plural intentional, it isn't exclusively Blair and cohorts' mess
 
Abagadro
2006-11-15 4:42:58 PM  
Toyota and Honda both seem to like doing their North American assembly in Communist Ontario. Healthcare costs figure large into their expansion here.


This is ultimately what will push the U.S. into a government managed health care system. The large corporations are going to start getting on board.
 
Pelagius
2006-11-15 4:43:31 PM  
themnemosyneI really don't see how that's any different from an uninsured person who can't afford dental treatment here in the US.

The only difference would be that the same procedure would cost $1000 to $3000 here, instead of $189.

Thank you insurance companies and lawyers!
 
untrustworthy
2006-11-15 4:45:46 PM  
Abagadro: The large corporations are going to start getting on board.

And we know how well social policies go when that happens.
 
Jaycatt
2006-11-15 4:52:13 PM  
Should have gone to this guy:
[image from img62.imageshack.us too old to be available]
 
FarkinNortherner
2006-11-15 4:52:16 PM  
themnemosyne: I really don't see how that's any different from an uninsured person who can't afford dental treatment here in the US.

The existence of National Insurance which, according to its founding principals, should cover the bulk of the cost of the work.

In theory everyone is insured from cradle to grave. In practice not everyone can gain access to the services to which their NI has (notionally, as it isn't hypothecated) contributed, particularly where dentistry is concerned. He's not one of such people. It's probably worth noting that the likely cost of joining the new dentist is £42.40.
 
ratboy
2006-11-15 4:54:29 PM  
untrustworthy:I can't have any car I want unless I'm able to make the money to have my choice.

Will you become ill, suffer and die without owning a new Escalade?
No one is proposing that everyone be entitled
to anything other than access to basic health services.
 
untrustworthy
2006-11-15 4:56:44 PM  
ratboy: Will you become ill, suffer and die without owning a new Escalade?

I don't think so. What's your point?

No one is proposing that everyone be entitled to anything other than access to basic health services.

Healthcare is a service that costs money. Nobody should be granted blanket entitlment to that which they have not earned.

Well, at least not in this country. Other countries can do whatever they feel is important to their societies.

In the US, universal healthcare has some serious dangers, IMO.
 
Grandmaster Poopypants
2006-11-15 4:56:49 PM  
untrustworthy: I can't have any car I want unless I'm able to make the money to have my choice. Why do people feel entitled to shiat they haven't earned?

You suck.
 
untrustworthy
2006-11-15 4:58:41 PM  
Grandmaster Poopypants: You suck.

Compelling argument. No, really.
 
ratboy
2006-11-15 4:59:04 PM  
Abagadro:This is ultimately what will push the U.S. into a government managed health care system. The large corporations are going to start getting on board.

Other than the insurance industry, which seems to be calling the shots in the US.
 
Grandmaster Poopypants
2006-11-15 5:05:13 PM  
untrustworthy: Compelling argument. No, really.

You think the poor deserve to suffer even in a country with ample resources to help them. Only people who suck believe that. Also, you believe that a car is the same as health care. Only people who suck would equate getting medicine with getting a car.

Therefore, you suck. More compelling?

If you are only playing Devil's Advocate, then you are taking the position of those who suck, and for the purposes of this thread, you suck.
 
untrustworthy
2006-11-15 5:07:10 PM  
Grandmaster Poopypants: You think the poor deserve to suffer even in a country with ample resources to help them. Only people who suck believe that. Also, you believe that a car is the same as health care. Only people who suck would equate getting medicine with getting a car.

I don't think they should suffer. I give plenty to charities who help those who can't help themselves. But I don't need to be forced to cough up tax dollars for a bigger government waste system.

Therefore, you suck. More compelling?

No, you just fail to understand my point.

If you are only playing Devil's Advocate, then you are taking the position of those who suck, and for the purposes of this thread, you suck.

Maybe I do suck. But I still think my opinion is valid.
 
Bill_Wick's_Friend
2006-11-15 5:13:05 PM  
2006-11-15 04:52:13 PM Jaycatt

Damn you. Now I can't get that tune out of my head.

/lemming. lemming. lemming of the b-d b-d b-d-ayyyyyyy
 
FarkinNortherner
2006-11-15 5:22:28 PM  
untrustworthy: I don't need to be forced to cough up tax dollars for a bigger government waste system.

Public healthcare expenditure per capita in the US is already greater than it is in most OECD countries:

[image from img129.imageshack.us too old to be available]
 
ratboy
2006-11-15 5:23:21 PM  
untrustworthy"I don't think so. What's your point?"

You're the one who equated owning your dream car to having access to medical care.

Healthcare is a service that costs money. Nobody should be granted blanket entitlment to that which they have not earned.

It also costs money to float a new aircraft carrier, yet we all enjoy the benefit it provides, whether we've earned it or not.

Well, at least not in this country. Other countries can do whatever they feel is important to their societies.

I'm happy that I've moved to one that shares some of my priorities. I remain a US citizen however and vote in your elections.

In the US, universal healthcare has some serious dangers, IMO.

My opinion is that the US could most likely find a way to provide universal healthcare which would be the envy of the world. As long as the insurance and pharmaceutical lobbies continue to write healthcare-related legislation, it will remain a cruel joke.
 
Nabb1
2006-11-15 5:27:16 PM  
untrustworthy: Healthcare is a service that costs money. Nobody should be granted blanket entitlment to that which they have not earned.

If national healthcare comes, expect private practice doctors to disappear. Medicare is notorious for paying only pennies on the dollar to physicians, and months late. If you are a private practitioner, you still have to pay overhead and staff salaries. Obviously some people are okay with government controlling other people's professional lives when they can get something for free out of it.
 
untrustworthy
2006-11-15 5:27:23 PM  
ratboy: You're the one who equated owning your dream car to having access to medical care.

So? I wasn't relating it because I thought lack of a car would be hazardous to my health.

It also costs money to float a new aircraft carrier, yet we all enjoy the benefit it provides, whether we've earned it or not.

I believe the key job of government is to provide for defense, so I'm fine with that.

I'm happy that I've moved to one that shares some of my priorities. I remain a US citizen however and vote in your elections.

That's fine. Having varied opinions is part of what makes a great society.

My opinion is that the US could most likely find a way to provide universal healthcare which would be the envy of the world. As long as the insurance and pharmaceutical lobbies continue to write healthcare-related legislation, it will remain a cruel joke.

The US government has even worse tendencies than those of insurance companies. The more power we give the government the less freedom we will have. I'm quite certain of that.
 
untrustworthy
2006-11-15 5:28:53 PM  
Nabb1: If national healthcare comes, expect private practice doctors to disappear. Medicare is notorious for paying only pennies on the dollar to physicians, and months late. If you are a private practitioner, you still have to pay overhead and staff salaries. Obviously some people are okay with government controlling other people's professional lives when they can get something for free out of it.

Agreed. The government taking over yet another industry is not the solution to the problem. It is just adding another layer to the problem.
 
Civil_War2_Time
2006-11-15 5:39:37 PM  
The US, full of hypochondriacs, would fill up every ER and doctor's office with problems a little Hydrogen Peroxide or rubbing alcohol could fix. That's why it won't work here.

Last time I went to the ER, after puking 17 times due to food poisoning, I had to wait three hours in the waiting room (with the RN saying she was sorry for the wait), since most of the 14 people in front of me were using welfare-healthcare to pay for a non-stitch-needing scratch, or a bump on their laughing and playing kid's forehead.
 
untrustworthy
2006-11-15 5:42:14 PM  
Civil_War2_Time: since most of the 14 people in front of me were using welfare-healthcare to pay for a non-stitch-needing scratch, or a bump on their laughing and playing kid's forehead.

Pretty much. Our healthcare system already has major problems. We aren't going to fix it by making it "free".
 
kiddoc
2006-11-15 5:50:32 PM  
A few thoughts, as doctor who has a 50/50 Medicaid/Private insurance population:

1)Nabb1
Medicare is notorious for paying only pennies on the dollar to physicians, and months late.

Actually, so are most private insurances. I'll agree that Medicaid does pay worse, but that is partly because so much of our tax dollar goes toward denying coverage. A significant savings would be opened up if instead of having to apply for health coverage, you had it for being an American Citizen.

2)Civil_War2_Time
Last time I went to the ER, after puking 17 times due to food poisoning, I had to wait three hours in the waiting room (with the RN saying she was sorry for the wait), since most of the 14 people in front of me were using welfare-healthcare to pay for a non-stitch-needing scratch, or a bump on their laughing and playing kid's forehead.

That's truly horrible. I completely agree that wasting a precious resource like the emergency room for non-emergent care is a crime, and costs us all money. However, since Medicaid often creates barriers to access to medicine in an attempt to decrease coverage (see above #1), these people often have no one to go to on a regular basis to provide them with the eduction to know when to go to the ER, and when not to. Again, a problem that would improved with increased access to health care, not worsened.
 
themnemosyne
2006-11-15 5:50:42 PM  
untrustworthy: I can't have any car I want unless I'm able to make the money to have my choice. Why do people feel entitled to shiat they haven't earned?

A car is a luxury item. Healthcare is essential to living a normal and productive life. Your poor analogy has illustrated the point that healthcare should not be considered a luxury item afforded only to the very wealthy, which is where it is currently headed.

Good lord, I can't wait till some of you "personal responsibility" folks have a major long-term illness in your family that causes you to lose almost everything you own to pay the cost of treatments needed to keep a loved one alive.

Furthermore, insurance companies can and will drop you or refuse coverage if they feel that you're costing them too much...so don't get too smug in your belief that "it'll never happen to me".
 
untrustworthy
2006-11-15 5:55:16 PM  
themnemosyne: A car is a luxury item. Healthcare is essential to living a normal and productive life. Your poor analogy has illustrated the point that healthcare should not be considered a luxury item afforded only to the very wealthy, which is where it is currently headed.

Ok, then what about food? It's essential to living a normal and productive life, but I don't see a universal grocery system.

Good lord, I can't wait till some of you "personal responsibility" folks have a major long-term illness in your family that causes you to lose almost everything you own to pay the cost of treatments needed to keep a loved one alive.

Life has risks. I have insurance to reduce those risks. But I'm aware that it is my responsibility to care for myself, not everyone else's.

Furthermore, insurance companies can and will drop you or refuse coverage if they feel that you're costing them too much...so don't get too smug in your belief that "it'll never happen to me".

That's why I've carefully selected my insurance providers and am aware of their policies.
 
Abagadro
2006-11-15 6:10:24 PM  
untrustworthy: That's why I've carefully selected my insurance providers and am aware of their policies.

Try being completely frozen out of the market because of a pre-existing condition.
 
kiddoc
2006-11-15 6:10:45 PM  
untrustworthy
That's why I've carefully selected my insurance providers and am aware of their policies.

How very nice for you. You do realize that most Americans don't have the resources to be so choosy about their coverage, don't you? That would include most middle class Americans, most of who have worked hard to get where they're at. Most people have to take the coverage their employer provides, or try to self-insure, which is always prohibitively expensive considering the poor quality of the product available to people buying outside of pooled insurances bought through employers.
 
untrustworthy
2006-11-15 6:12:05 PM  
Abagadro: Try being completely frozen out of the market because of a pre-existing condition.

I never said our current system was perfect. I only say that universal healthcare is not my idea of the solution.
 
untrustworthy
2006-11-15 6:16:48 PM  
kiddoc: How very nice for you. You do realize that most Americans don't have the resources to be so choosy about their coverage, don't you? That would include most middle class Americans, most of who have worked hard to get where they're at.

There are many problems with the current healthcare system that need to be addressed. But like I said, I don't think universal healthcare is the solution.

Most people have to take the coverage their employer provides,

As opposed to having to take the coverage their government provides? How would that be better?

or try to self-insure, which is always prohibitively expensive considering the poor quality of the product available to people buying outside of pooled insurances bought through employers.

Like I said, the current system has problems. I don't deny that. But I don't see the solution in universal healthcare. All I see is setting ourselves up for more gross inefficiency, less options in health care, much more government control and fewer freedoms.
 
Rosalea
2006-11-15 6:23:41 PM  
My little brother has had a badly broken tooth for the last 4 years. Since he doesn't have insurance, or the money to pay to have work done he's screwed. I'm sure he would have been happy to apply super glue every couple of months until he could get it fixed for free.
 
Nabb1
2006-11-15 6:28:30 PM  
I'm for looking for solutions for people who have no insurance and cannot afford it, but frankly, if you can afford insurance but opted not to get it because you didn't want the expense, I say tough.
 
untrustworthy
2006-11-15 6:29:08 PM  
Rosalea: My little brother has had a badly broken tooth for the last 4 years.

Why doncha help him out?
 
untrustworthy
2006-11-15 6:30:26 PM  
Nabb1: I'm for looking for solutions for people who have no insurance and cannot afford it

I do more than that. I actually contribute to charities and donate my time to help people who need it. But I guess other people need their government to force them to cough up the money.
 
ratboy
2006-11-15 6:40:55 PM  
Civil_War2_Time:Last time I went to the ER, after puking 17 times due to food poisoning, I had to wait three hours in the waiting room (with the RN saying she was sorry for the wait), since most of the 14 people in front of me were using welfare-healthcare to pay for a non-stitch-needing scratch, or a bump on their laughing and playing kid's forehead.

Here in Ontario, they would have been able to have their minor complaints addressed at their own doctor's office or at one of several clinics which treat minor emergencies. In this area, you'll get parked at the end of the line with a minor complaint at the ER.
 
Nabb1
2006-11-15 6:41:56 PM  
untrustworthy: I actually contribute to charities and donate my time to help people who need it. But I guess other people need their government to force them to cough up the money.

Well, I've probably done well over a thousand hours worth of pro bono work in my legal career over the past decade. I have no qualms with lending a hand and encourage others to do so, but I have no reservations about charging for my work when it's for those who have the means.
 
mediaho
2006-11-15 6:45:23 PM  
Civil_War2_Time: since most of the 14 people in front of me were using welfare-healthcare to pay for a non-stitch-needing scratch, or a bump on their laughing and playing kid's forehead.

They wouldn't have been there if they were covered to see a general practitioner. As it is, they know that they can't be refused treatment in the ER.
 
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