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(Chr. of Higher Ed.)   "Liberal 'groupthink' puts college professors at odds with most Americans." Ric Romero has the story   (chronicle.com) divider line
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    More: Obvious  
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829 clicks; posted to Politics » on 20 Oct 2006 at 9:47 PM (16 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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phreakinowski
2006-10-20 5:40:10 PM  
Since there are more under educated people then there are college professors, and considering the continuous downward trend of the US public education system, this is neither a surprise nor in any way evidence that the professors are wrong for thinking and teaching as they do.

So yes, it is Obvious that they are at odds with most Americans.

But then it is also obvious, judging by the number of people who believe the earth is 6000 years old and the clouds are full of angels and cotton candy, that they damn well better be at odds with most Americans at this point.
 
jasonmicron
2006-10-20 5:42:31 PM  
Ward Churchill anyone?
 
mkfreeberg
2006-10-20 5:43:35 PM  
2006-10-20 05:40:10 PM phreakinowski: Since there are more under educated people then there are college professors, and considering the continuous downward trend of the US public education system, this is neither a surprise nor in any way evidence that the professors are wrong for thinking and teaching as they do. So yes, it is Obvious that they are at odds with most Americans. But then it is also obvious, judging by the number of people who believe the earth is 6000 years old and the clouds are full of angels and cotton candy, that they damn well better be at odds with most Americans at this point.

So to paraphrase, now that the poo sandwich has been peeled apart and people are looking between the bread slices and they know it's a poo sandwich, you're going to keep on insisting that's Grandma's apple butter in there and the people peeking between the slices are too stupid to know the difference.

I'm afraid your explanation is somewhat at odds with what Groupthink really is.

Groupthink is a mode of thought whereby individuals intentionally conform to what they perceive to be the consensus of the group. Groupthink may cause the group (typically a committee or large organization) to make bad or irrational decisions which each member might individually consider to be unwise.
 
Bonkthat_Again [TotalFark] [OhFark]
2006-10-20 5:52:55 PM  
phreakinowski: Since there are more under educated people then there are college professors, and considering the continuous downward trend of the US public education system, this is neither a surprise nor in any way evidence that the professors are wrong for thinking and teaching as they do.

Some of the dumbest people I know have masters degrees.
 
2wolves [TotalFark]
2006-10-20 5:53:36 PM  
Group think?

Let's stroll over to Freeper-ville shall we?
 
jay_vee
2006-10-20 5:56:17 PM  
Intelligent people are coming! Run for the hills!
 
phreakinowski
2006-10-20 5:56:18 PM  
"Groupthink is a mode of thought whereby individuals intentionally conform to what they perceive to be the consensus of the group. Groupthink may cause the group (typically a committee or large organization) to make bad or irrational decisions which each member might individually consider to be unwise."

My gawd, does this ever remind me of the build up to the Iraq war...

So let me simply point out that "Groupthink" is not a partisan construction. As you might argue that liberal college professors are suffering from it currently, I would argue that by and large the entirety of the Republican party, and most definitely Bush and those he has surrounded himself with, seem to be suffering from a far more pronounced case.
 
Great Metal Jesus
2006-10-20 6:00:16 PM  
So they're guilty of eeeeeevil liberal groupthink because:

Almost one-third of professors cite the United States as among the top two greatest threats to international stability -- more than cited Iran, China, or Iraq.

Fifty-four percent of professors say U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East is partially responsible for the growth of Islamic militancy.

Sixty-four percent say the government's powers under the USA Patriot Act should be weakened.

Funny, all of those sound about right to me.
 
willywanka
2006-10-20 6:00:54 PM  
nah, they wanna be just like us. They figure all they need, is a lobotomy and some tights.
 
jay_vee
2006-10-20 6:02:59 PM  
2006-10-20 06:00:16 PMGreat Metal Jesus
So they're guilty of eeeeeevil liberal groupthink because:
...
Fifty-four percent of professors say U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East is partially responsible for the growth of Islamic militancy.

The CIA are also guilty of eeeeeevil liberal groupthink.
 
Great Metal Jesus
2006-10-20 6:03:43 PM  
jay_vee

Then the terrorists have won!
 
kronicfeld
2006-10-20 6:09:59 PM  
Great Metal Jesus: Fifty-four percent of professors say U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East is partially responsible for the growth of Islamic militancy.

How can any rational, educated person reasonably believe US foreign policy isn't partially responsible?
 
hillbillypharmacist
2006-10-20 6:12:47 PM  
Great Metal Jesus: Funny, all of those sound about right to me.

Hell, those sound like lowball figures for lefty leftist pinko Bolshevist professors.
 
FriarTuck
2006-10-20 6:12:50 PM  
Blah. Just sit in your reqired liberal arts classes- parrot and regurgitate the talking points- collect your A's. Professors in real departments aren't so nutty.
 
Action Replay Nick
2006-10-20 6:13:54 PM  
kronicfeld
How can any rational, educated person reasonably believe US foreign policy isn't partially responsible?

Because they lack those two qualifiers, or get paid to lie?
 
KaponoFor3
2006-10-20 6:18:13 PM  
Great Metal Jesus: Fifty-four percent of professors say U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East is partially responsible for the growth of Islamic militancy.

Hard to disagree with that.
 
st_gulik
2006-10-20 6:27:54 PM  
Bonkthat_Again: Some of the dumbest people I know have masters degrees.


Yeah, my mother has a Doctorate and she still thinks GWB is a good Christian and wants to vote for him in November.
 
Mugato [TotalFark]
2006-10-20 6:35:20 PM  
Anti-intellectualism is my favorite conservative trait. Every time a conservative uses the word "elitist" to describe someone smarter or more educated than them it makes me feel all warm inside.
 
Capt_Evil
2006-10-20 6:36:31 PM  
When you can't discredit the message, discredit the messenger.
 
Jabber
2006-10-20 6:41:19 PM  
mkfreeberg: Groupthink is a mode of thought whereby individuals intentionally conform to what they perceive to be the consensus of the group. Groupthink may cause the group (typically a committee or large organization) to make bad or irrational decisions which each member might individually consider to be unwise.

That sounds like every single religion that I've ever heard of.
 
MasterThief
2006-10-20 6:42:42 PM  
Intellect != Common Sense
Degrees != Understanding

mkfreeberg: Groupthink is a mode of thought whereby individuals intentionally conform to what they perceive to be the consensus of the group. Groupthink may cause the group (typically a committee or large organization) to make bad or irrational decisions which each member might individually consider to be unwise.

See also "rank and tenure" committees.

/works for college professors
 
KaponoFor3
2006-10-20 6:44:24 PM  
Mugato: Anti-intellectualism is my favorite conservative trait. Every time a conservative uses the word "elitist" to describe someone smarter or more educated than them it makes me feel all warm inside.

I don't think it's anti-intellectualism per se that drives conservatives batty -- it's mostly the fact that the educated "elite" that are the ivory-tower types think that those people who have less education have opinions that either aren't as valid or shouldn't hold equal weight as theirs.
 
Jabber
2006-10-20 6:47:57 PM  
KaponoFor3: I don't think it's anti-intellectualism per se that drives conservatives batty -- it's mostly the fact that the educated "elite" that are the ivory-tower types think that those people who have less education have opinions that either aren't as valid or shouldn't hold equal weight as theirs.

The problem is that people are allowed to have their own opinions but not their own facts. A lot of people can't tell the difference.
 
Fark It
2006-10-20 6:49:16 PM  
College professors are teaching their students critical thinking and how to question the establishment. Let's all go beat up some fags and liberals!
 
KaponoFor3
2006-10-20 6:52:07 PM  
Jabber: The problem is that people are allowed to have their own opinions but not their own facts. A lot of people can't tell the difference.

Facts are always open to interpretation -- neither side is willing to see how the other side could intelligently interpret the facts to reach the conclusion that they do.

Is one side objectively right and the other side objectively wrong? It's not necessarily that easy to say.
 
Action Replay Nick
2006-10-20 6:57:41 PM  
KaponoFor3
Facts are always open to interpretation -- neither side is willing to see how the other side could intelligently interpret the facts to reach the conclusion that they do.

Only to a certain extent. For example, the facts about global climate change, the causes, and it's future are wildly open to interpretation and debate. Saying that intelligent design is a valid scientific theory worthy of consideration equal to that of evolution in a science classroom is pure nonsense, but morons still fall back on that old "all interpretations are valid" meme.
 
Jabber
2006-10-20 6:59:02 PM  
KaponoFor3: Facts are always open to interpretation

You and I obviously have different definitions of what a "fact" is. To me, a fact is a fact is a fact. It is not open to interpretation. A fact doesn't change no matter how hard you hope and pray that it will go away.
 
DisneyOnIce
2006-10-20 7:07:29 PM  
mkfreeberg: I'm afraid your explanation is somewhat at odds with what Groupthink really is.

Groupthink is a mode of thought whereby individuals intentionally conform to what they perceive to be the consensus of the group. Groupthink may cause the group (typically a committee or large organization) to make bad or irrational decisions which each member might individually consider to be unwise.

A neo-con telling liberals what "group-think" is via Wikipedia. If it isn't the end of the world, it should be.
 
KaponoFor3
2006-10-20 7:09:37 PM  
Jabber: You and I obviously have different definitions of what a "fact" is. To me, a fact is a fact is a fact. It is not open to interpretation. A fact doesn't change no matter how hard you hope and pray that it will go away.

Certain facts can definitely lead to polar opposite conclusions, right? I mean, both Dems and the GOP constantly take similar facts and reach wildly differing conclusions about what ideas we are to take from those facts.

Action Replay Nick: Only to a certain extent

Fair enough, I definitely agree with that -- I think both sides are guilty of this (ignoring facts when it touches a hot button issue that they care about).
 
dpryan
2006-10-20 7:14:03 PM  
It'd be nice if we could see the actual study instead of the executive summary. The article didn't mention any statistics of similarly comprised non-professor groups...which you would need for comparison to demonstrate groupthink among professors. Without that, that conclusion is completely baseless and the person producing it an idiot.

/Why are so many social scientists completely incapable of creating a coherent study...I mean really, it's not that hard.
//Real scientist
 
Raging Primate
2006-10-20 7:18:23 PM  
Anyone with half a farking brain and a decent education is going to be at odds with most of the American population.
 
kliq
2006-10-20 7:22:28 PM  
Fifty-four percent of professors say U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East is partially responsible for the growth of Islamic militancy.

That isn't a "liberal" idea - it was recently proven from a leaked Pentagon memo.

Robin Wilson, please do more research next time. This gets a D and please read your syllabus again.
 
CheekyMunky
2006-10-20 7:26:01 PM  
[image from www2.filehost.to too old to be available]
 
dpryan
2006-10-20 7:32:37 PM  
Err, I need to learn to read, I guess you can read the original report...will have to do so.
 
st_gulik
2006-10-20 7:34:09 PM  
Raging_Primate: Anyone with half a farking brain and a decent education is going to be at odds with most of the American population.


Standard Bell Curves indicate that an IQ of 100 is considered average. Thus, at any one time half of America is below Average in Intellect. Thus we can rightly say we have a lot of dumbasses around here.
 
equilibrium
2006-10-20 7:39:09 PM  
* Professors are three times as likely to call themselves "liberal" as "conservative." In the 2004 presidential election, 72 percent of those surveyed voted for John Kerry.

Not surprising considering the staunchly anti intellectual stance of the republican party.

* Almost one-third of professors cite the United States as among the top two greatest threats to international stability -- more than cited Iran, China, or Iraq.

Almost one out of three eh? That's some serious groupthink they have going there.

* Fifty-four percent of professors say U.S. foreign policy in the Middle East is partially responsible for the growth of Islamic militancy.

If I remember correctly quite a few intelligence agencies hold this view as well. Liberal groupthink in the CIA?

* Sixty-four percent say the government's powers under the USA Patriot Act should be weakened.

Who could possibly have a problem with warrentless sneek and peek searches and the government rooting through library records to see what you're reading.

Do people honestly get paid to write this crap?
 
Farkwod
2006-10-20 7:40:02 PM  
GROUPTHINK? Damn! I hope this doesn't spread to our churches!
 
Pope George Ringo
2006-10-20 7:49:12 PM  
[image from img172.imageshack.us too old to be available]
 
Mugato [TotalFark]
2006-10-20 7:54:23 PM  
* Professors are three times as likely to call themselves "liberal" as "conservative."

That's because professors are three times as likely to know what the word "liberal" means. HINT: It doesn't mean commie baby killers.
 
Jabber
2006-10-20 9:13:48 PM  
KaponoFor3: Certain facts can definitely lead to polar opposite conclusions, right? I mean, both Dems and the GOP constantly take similar facts and reach wildly differing conclusions about what ideas we are to take from those facts.

Ah, I see. You are talking about conclusions which are very different from facts. What I was trying to point out was that someone who is uneducated, by definition, doesn't have all of the facts and therefore can't make a fully formed conclusion. And alot of times, these same people don't want to be more informed. They would rather hold on tightly to their old beliefs and their minds shut down when new information is given to them.
 
hillbillypharmacist
2006-10-20 9:22:54 PM  
Mugato: ...what the word "liberal" means. HINT: It doesn't mean commie baby killers.

Intriguing.
 
Abagadro
2006-10-20 9:36:27 PM  
Dammit, they found out about the meetings! No much punch and pie!


1) Online surveys are usually crap

2) So professors may be disproportionately liberal, so the hell what. Lets all freak out because the boardrooms of Fortune 500 companies are overwhelmingly Republican (and therefore "outside the mainstream") or that the military is more conservative while we are at it.. Institutions always have their own flavor.
 
m0llusk
2006-10-20 9:43:00 PM  
Oddly enough, universities are well known to be centers of unusually high economic growth. Oooh, scary Capitalists, eek!
 
TheOther
2006-10-20 10:03:22 PM  
submitter: 'think' puts college professors at odds with most Americans.

You would hope that college profeesors think a little different than most Americans...if only because you want someone you're paying all that tuition to teach you can at least be a little above average. Otherwise, what's the point?
 
RockIsDead
2006-10-20 10:06:02 PM  
Education != intelligence.

Though it helps, there's no 'absolute' involved.
 
Phil Moskowitz
2006-10-20 10:11:46 PM  
Yes, they upper few percentiles don't think like the great unwashed. NO shiat. There's a serious failure of imagination in this headline.
 
inglixthemad
2006-10-20 10:23:19 PM  
phreakinowski: But then it is also obvious, judging by the number of people who believe the earth is 6000 years old and the clouds are full of angels and cotton candy, that they damn well better be at odds with most Americans at this point.

I had a freaking ultra-liberal history professor in college for two semesters. She was a real nice lady though, and loved discussion. She really knew her subject inside and out too (Adolph Hitler was almost Adolph Schudelbricker as an example :p ).

My ultra-conservative (granted these are my standards, I'm kind of mushy-middle realist) Political Science teacher on the other hand could not be convinced anything the Right-Wing did was wrong. Yeah, okay, whatever. He knew his stuff too, don't get me wrong. At least the "liberal" history teacher could admit when she was wrong.
 
VTSquire
2006-10-20 10:25:23 PM  
Meh... After I did a report on political biases in academia for my English class, the only conclusion I could reasonably draw is that politics of professors only becomes a problem when they grade students based on them or when the students think they will be graded or chastized in part for speaking up about politics instead of whatever the class is about.

Algebra != Nixon, Mkay?
 
inglixthemad
2006-10-20 10:30:08 PM  
inglixthemad: My ultra-conservative (granted these are my standards, I'm kind of mushy-middle realist) Political Science teacher on the other hand could not be convinced anything the Right-Wing did was wrong.

As a side note to my previous comment: This is kind of like how my Freeper posting priveleges are revoked within an hour without any foul language, denigration, et al. I simply note the obvious, like how useless a bill is or how there is no safety this side of the grave. Apparently Conservatives (the ultra-hardcore, all Republican, no stop, support the Right no matter what) don't like being shown the truth.
 
God-is-a-Taco
2006-10-20 10:44:32 PM  
The dreaded Liberal Professor is second only to the Hollywood Actor in power.
 
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