Wow, smitty, just wow. If only Iraq were the same country as PRK.

dj4aces: Seriously, we're not permitting luxury items into NK? What the farking hell kind of sanction is that?!

Actually, it makes much more sense than the trade sanctions imposed on Iraq from 1991 until the second invasion. The Iraqi sanctions unintentionally deprived normal Iraqis of medicine, food, etc., until the "food for oil" program was enacted.

The PRK sanctions, otoh, primarily pinch Kim Jong Il and the powerful. God knows the North Korean people aren't buying any luxury items, while Kim and his entourage are living it up in the style of Marie Antoinette.

foster404: question to those on the left, what do you think we should do about NK?


Honestly? We should reenagage them in the abandoned six-way talks, with China and the US taking the lead. North Korea isn't like Nazi Germany; i.e., they're not threatening because they mean it. They threaten because they want something - trade concessions, a new car for Christmas, a leader with a decent hairdo, you name it. This is PRK's modus operandi - they bluster to get our attention, then talk when they know they have it. And now that they've pissed China off, they are going to be walking pretty carefully, lest they end up like Tibet.

Keep in mind that the US has enough north-pointing artillery across the DMZ in South Korea to completely decimate North Korea if it came to that (and I pray that it doesn't). Kim is crazy, but he ain't stupid.

dj4aces: Seems to me that might do the world a bit more good, don't you think?

Yes, it would, but only if they use them. NK is on a very precarious tightrope right now. They have raised the ire of China and the US. See my last post - China could overwhelm NK in a day or two if they really wanted to, and we prolly wouldn't say much about it. Not to mention that we have every square foot of North Korea targeted by our artillery lined up on the DMZ.

I say let em have nukes because this will force other nations to pay attention to NK (to a degree), yet NK knows if they ever use them, they are farked seven ways to Sunday. China won't bail em out this time.

foster404: thats what we have been doing, but they want us to have two way talks


fark what they want. :)

That's why it's called negotiation. They are not in a very good negotiating position, but they do have our attention. They need to know that we will listen to what they have to say, but we're not especially interested in catering to their whims. If they don't like it, they can try impersonating Taiwan's defense strategy. Heh. Hehehe. That should be good for a laugh.

NK's basic gripe with the rest of the world is that nobody wants to buy NK's goods (go figure), while SK has the world by the nose when it comes to trade relationships. If we were to readjust this trade surplus somewhat, we could probably avoid a lot of headaches with NK.

I don't mean we should import NK's durable goods (Ha!), but rather their mass-produced inferior goods. You know the machines in front of Wal-Mart that give you a cheap ring or a bouncy ball for a quarter? Yeah, we could import a bit of that crap, and not hurt our trade relationships with Taiwan (such as they are) one bit.

Gosling: A) Submitter is a big fat moron.

I'm tending to agree...

B) I may have made less movies than Moore. In fact, I have made precisely zero. Despite this, I still consider myself, who debates primarily on the Internet with thousands of other nameless people- many of whom appear to have learning disabilities- to have made more of a positive contribution to the American discourse than he has.

Not so sure about that, but yeah, sure, OK...

C) The object with the sanctions were twofold: First, to figure out something that would hit the North Korean ruling class while leaving the general populace untouched (which is pretty tricky). Second, to get a 15-0 vote by making whatever concessions you have to. The solidarity is key- if China's not on board, not only does that show Kim that he still has an ally, but China's got a veto and a no from them would kill any sanctions period. This way, you show Kim that he's completely on his own and were he to actually try something, his ass is toast.

Spot on. The real trick, though, is to figure out what he wants. I think it has to do with trade, but Kim may very well have some other (very classified) bug up his ass. If he makes demands, we should tie any concessions we might make to an inspected decommissioning of their entire nuclear weapons program, perhaps throwing in some more recent nuclear power technology instead. Just a thought, though.